how that could be a role model for national health care reform. los angeles coroner returns to the office of the long time dermatologist dr. arnold klein. it comes one week after the chief examiner said the report was complete. health care remains a huge challenge for president obama. but he keeps on pitching. he rallied thousands of religious leaders yesterday stressing a moral imperative for health care reform. today, he enters the lion's den of radio. the president is keeping hope for a bipartisan breakthrough on health care alive. that's what the white house is saying publicly. if they're looking for a road map, they might find it in massachusetts. jim acosta is joining us in boston this morning. looking today at massachusetts health care system. this was implemented in former governor mitt romney. >> that's right. of all thing, a republican. and you know, john, earlier this week, the white house took a lot

of heat from democrats when it backed away from public option and the plans for health care reform. what do you get when you take the public option out of health care reform, according to some experts, you get romney care. >> reporter: if washington wants to reform health care with bipartisan support, consider what former republican presidential candidate mitt romney did as governor in democratic massachusetts. >> you don't have to have a public option. you don't have to have the government in the insurance business to make it work. >> three years after enacting its own version of reform, massachusetts now has near universal coverage. taxpayer watchdogs say it's affordable. >> the wide spread assumption that is breaking the bank in massachusetts. it's not breaking the bank at all. it's not costing much at all relative to what we were spending four years ago. >> health care experts say it's popular. >> seven in ten people in the state support the program.

no more than 1 in 10 would repeal it. >> unlike proposals to give the public a choice, massachusetts has no public option. instead, people in the state are mandated to buy private insurance for subsidies. romney care is basically obama care without the public option. >> the president drops the public option, would you support him? >> it depends on what's in the rest of the bill. >> reporter: romney says democrats only have themselves to blame for the rowdy town hall meetings. >> any time you're dealing with people's health care and the ability to choose their doctor, their ability to decide what kind of health care plan they want, you're going to find people are going to respond emotionally. >> reporter: as for the former governor's debunk claim that the government was supporting death panels. >> i hasn't read that to the bill. >> reporter: you think it's okay

for the governor of alaska talking about death panels, pulling the plug on grandma -- >> i'm not going to tell other people what they can and can't talk about. >> reporter: but bipartisanship is the only road to health care reform. >> the president's right to pursue health care on an emotional and so important to americans is to go through the lengthy process of working on a bipartisan basis. he promised that. >> reporter: the massachusetts model does have its problems. it does not control rising health care costs, something romney says has to be tackled on a national level. john? >> that's the centerpiece of health care reform here is controlling costs and a lot of arguments on how best to do that. jim acosta. thanks so much. to read more about the health care debate, by the way, or get answers to your questions, i'm sure you have lots of them, go to cnn.com/health care. following major news in an election right now. in a company where the u.s. has a major stake. we're talking about afghanistan. people there are heading to the

polls to elect a new president. they're doing so despite threats of violence, even death by the taliban. the same group that ran the country and cozied up with ohsaa bin laden before 9/11. america's 60,000 troops on the ground. they're working overtime to keep the polls and the people safe. we're tapping in to the global resources of cnn this morning. ivan watson outside of kabul joining us this morning. what is the turnout like so far today in afghanistan? >> i'm looking at a central province right now. one of the safest provinces in the country. i got to say, the line of people waiting before the polls opened to come in and vote. 2,000 people estimated in the first two hours when this polling station opened. they got so rowdy, so impatient to come in, they broke one of the gates to get in to the compound, this high school when people are voting behind me in the tents right here. so we had a steady stream of

voters here. people are fortunate in this province in that it has had remarkably few insurgent attacks. the same cannot be said for broad sections of southern and eastern afghanistan with the taliban insurgency is much stronger. we've gotten reports from some afghan security officials, for example, in the southern province of helmand, reports of a rocket attack in the district capital where one person was killed and another person wou wounded. another rocket attack in an eastern town. it gives you an idea where the insurgency is strong. here, though, election officials are telling us all of the polling centers in this province are open and voting very brisk. back to you. >> people are wondering why we should pay attention to this election here. what's at stake going forward? >> well, first of all, it's the costs. this is costing some $223

million to the international community. on top of that, you have the huge u.s. commitment on the ground. more than 60,000 troops trying to secure this country eight years after the taliban was overthrown. the u.s. forces are taking casualties. three american troops killed just yesterday in clashes. last month was the deadliest month yet for u.s. forces on the ground. and nato troops, european forces, are also taking casualties on a daily basis. this is an attempt to prop up the western-backed government right now which is viewing this election, also, as a test of its credibility. it's important to see whether or not these elections will be credible. and if the taliban succeeds in convincing afghans and scaring them from voting, particularly in the ethnic pashtun populated areas in the south and in the east where the taliban is strongest, it will undermine the credibility of the next government here in afghanistan and really strike a blow to the eight-year effort to try to build a stable afghanistan.

>> ivan watson for us in afghanistan. thanks so much. and also stay with us. coming up in 30 minutes, we'll be talking to andrew ex o m, the fellow of the new american security. he just travelled to afghanistan. we're going to ask him what the result of today's election means for u.s.-afghan relations. >> seven minutes after the hour. hurricane bill churning through the open waters of the atlantic and moving ever so closer to bermuda. bill weakening overnight to a category three storm but is expected to restrengthen during the day today when the sun comes up. maximum sustained winds of 125 miles per hour. bill is expected to affect the eastern u.s. coast with large swells as early as tomorrow. it looks like it may come precariously close to cape cod as well. new details about a bush-era prime minister to kill al qaeda operatives that dick cheney kept secret from congress. according to "the new york times" in 2004, the cia hired private contractors from

blackwater to help with planning, training, and surveillance. the price tag said to cost millions, even though the program never got past the planning stage. the obama administration got commitments from a dozen european countries willing to accept detainees from guantanamo bay. six countries, britain, france, ireland, italy, portugal, and spain have agreed to take detainees. four others have said privately they are willing to do the same. 80 gitmo detainees are cleared for release so far. the white house is looking for a prison location in this country to transfer inmates to. but some members of congress are opposed to moving terror suspects on to u.s. soil. milwaukee native tom barrett is speaking publicly for the first time since being beaten with a pipe. he wore a cast on his fractured right hand and had cuts on his face and head. the mayor told reporters he was doing his civic duty. >> i encountered something i

think virtually any other citizen in this city would react the same way. we were walking down the street. my two daughters and molly too at that point said -- someone is yelling, call 911, call 911. a woman holding a baby. our immediate thought was there was something wrong with the baby. so i quickly pulled out my phone. i think molly did. we started calling 911. within seconds, we realized the problem was not with the baby, it was with the man. and he came up and was very, very agitated and events took off quickly. i've been in situations in this community my whole life and i can't think of a situation like this where people would not have responded the way i did. someone says call 911, you call 911. it's that straightforward.

>> well, he says he didn't elaborate more on the attack because there's a case pending, of course, after this happened to him. the police do have a suspect in custody. if you wonder about the mayor's security detail, they were not with him because he calls it a spur of the moment decision to go to the fair. the latest on the michael jackson case coming up. the coroner's office said the investigation is over. it has the reports on how michael jackson died. why were they back in the offices of his dermatologist? coming up. i think i'll go with the preferred package.

good choice. only meineke lets you choose the brake service that's right for you. and save 50% on pads and shoes. meineke. ♪ come fly with me let's fly let's fly away ♪ welcome back to the most news in the morning. there were a lot more fliers with time off than jet blue

expected. the airline suspending sales of the all-new jet promotion after only a week -- like the cash for clunkers program. for $599, customers could fly anywhere between the airlines 56 cities starting september 8 and ending october 8. jet blue said the promotion exceeded expectations. >> that is just strange. why do it in the first place? just $600. you don't think people were going to take them up on that offer? >> take a week off and hit as many cities as you can hit in the space of that time. >> business, whatever it is. $600. >> it's going to be a popular program. >> all right, go figure. the ivy league rules, harvard and prince ton share the top spot in a list compiled by the u.s. ne"u.s. news & world ." yale is in third and a four-way tie between cal tech, m.i.t., stanford, and another ivy leaguer, u-temp. did we say army ranked the top a

week ago? candle lit dinner, romantic, yes, but also dangerous from your health? fumes from paraffin wax, the common and cheapest form of wax produce toxins that could be linked to cancer and asthma. you have to light them day after day for years in a poorly ventilated room to be at risk. thought you should know anyway. >> that was -- weeks ago. >> >> new twist in the michael jackson investigation. authorities went to visit dr. arnold klein, again. last week, a coroner said a, quote, thorough report in to jackson's death was complete. why the second search? cnns randy kay looks into it. good morning, john, kiran, you thought it was over but another twist in the michael jackson case. this time, another subpoena served at the office of rar nold klein, jackson's long-time

dermatologist. the chief investigator came to the office yesterday to confirm or negate new information he received. this is significant because last week, the l.a. county coroner's office announced the report was complete, calling it thorough and comprehensive. it's not as complete as they thought it was. yesterday's visit marks the coroner's second visit to dr. klein seeking information. the last one was july 14. here's what one of the attorneys told reporters outside of his office after all is done. >> dr. arnold klein wants to maintain his utter cooperation with any and all law enforcement authority with respect to the investigation in to the cause of death of michael jackson. he has done so. he will continue to do so. >> reporter: dr. klein's lawyer says he's no reason to be concerned on behalf of his client that he sees no evidence to support a charge of medical ma malpractice which is floated as a possible charge against dr. klein. he falls under that appropriate

window of time. police are looking at more than a dozen doctors who were in touch with michael jackson or treating him in what authorities say was a critical time frame in this case. weeks ago, dr. klein was on the list of doctors investigators were focusing on. they're trying to determine what drugs jackson was taking, who prescribed hem, and under what name. we know jackson was getting drugs under 19 different aliases including the name of his own son and personal chef. dr. klein said he doesn't believe he's being scrutinized and the most dangerous drug he gave jackson was demerol. jackson came to see him three days before his death, dr. klein told cnn the pop star danced for his patients in the office that day. but i asked his lawyer by phone if that was definitely their last visit. his lawyer told me he wasn't sure when the last time his client saw michael jackson was. i asked him if he had seen him within 24 hours of his death. he told me flat out, he did not

know. so, the investigation continues. john, kiran, back to you. >> randi kaye for us this morning. "u.s. news & world report" that put harvard and prince ton at the top five. that's forbes that ranked army number one. that's also the affordability issue. >> everybody's got an opinion. do as much research as you can. make an informed decision. that's the best you can do. new credit card companies coming up. christine rommance minding your business this morning. 17 minutes after the hour. clean energy idea. now that works for our whole family. for the kids, a better environment. for my wife, who commutes, no more gettin' jerked around on gas prices... and for me, well, it wouldn't be so bad if this breadwinner brought home a little more bread. repower america. i hope our senators are listening.

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she's got a ticket to ride ♪ welcome back to the most news in the morning. we know that cash for clunkers, the program, is certainly no clunker. but we could learn today the administration's plan for winding down the rebate program that has had cars flying off of dealers' lots. it's estimated $2 billion pumped into the program earlier this month should be enough to keep the program running at least through labor day.

new rules for credit card holders and issuers of those car cards good morning. >> if you have a credit card in your wallet, pocket, use a credit card. you're going to see some changes. you'll likely see them right now. look in your mailbox. the credit card issuers are starting to send out notices telling you they're raising your interest rates, implementing an annual fee. citigroup is putting an annual fee on people who may never have paid an annual fee. maybe they pay their credit card in full. you have some rights coming in to effect. they start actually today. here's what's going to change for you. you're going to have the right to reject a rate increase. you're going to have five years to repay your balance at the current rate. they can't raise the rate on your current balance. you have five years to pay that off. 45-day notice before there's a rate increase. they have to give you that in writing. your bills may be mailed 21 days before the due date. right now, a couple of weeks. so a little bit more time you're

going to have so you can see what your bill is. there are downsides here. the industry told us -- look out. if you pass these laws, it will be harder for people to get credit cards. interest rates are going to go up. that's what's been happening. it's going to be harder to get a card. for some people -- we're hearing from people, higher interest rates. we're already hearing that the lowest average advertised rate is up to 11.99%. riskier borrowers, forget it. you'll be shut out of this process. and annual fees -- citigroup is confirming that they are going to instate an annual fee on some of the cards. so, also, the rewards programs for people who are good customers. those are starting to change. used to be, you got 5% cash back, good customer, using it all the time. small businesses use them because they put big balances. now they're rotating the categories for 5% cash back. it used to be if you were ticked off about something or you could call your credit card. we would say, just call them.

argue, ask to speak to the supervisor. take the fee off. they're not taking the fee off. >> late payments now? anything changing with that. >> you need to pay on time. you need to make your -- i can't stress this enough. some of the big changes don't go into effect until february. so the big change, the most important thing to protect you don't go into effect until febl. s february. in the meantime, there are fees that you'll be hit with. you'll be hit with higher interest rates and the like. you have to toe the line on this. we all love to hate the credit card companies. but we love our credit cards. if you can, you have got to pay on time as much as you can every month. >> do you have a romance numeral for us? >> i do. i will tell you what it is. 1,157. >> average credit card holder has these days. >> john is -- this is what you win, johnny, my friend. you win my undying affection. this is the average balance per

open credit card. per open credit card. let me give you a little perspective on the romans numeral. if you pay $60 a month on that credit card, which is, you know, $60 a month, 4 1/2 years to pay it off. $250 in interest. think about that. that's a long time. 4 1/2 years. >> and the payments are $15. >> yeah this, is for -- how many cards -- i'm speechless over this. how many cards do you have in your pocket? you know? i have three. i pay them off. i pay them. >> good little consumer. >> good little consumer. >> minding your business this morning. still ahead. we think about earthquakes in the state of california. but seattle could be at risk for a giant earthquake. making new discoveries about the fault lines there in seattle. 24 1/2 minutes after the hour.

♪ going to make you mad 27 minute past the hour. welcome back to the most news in the morning. people in the western part of our nation bracing for the big one. the scientists saying it's not a question if the big earthquake will happen. it's a question of when. now we're thinking maybe los angeles, right? san francisco. actually, it's seattle. it turns out to be earthquake country. cnn's dan simon has our story. hey, john, kiran. when people think of seattle, they probably think of the space needle and those dreary days. certainly not earthquakes. well, that could be changing. at seattle's pipe place fish market, workers approach earthquakes the same way as their jobs -- with humor. >> i guess we're due for it.

myself, living downtown, i'm in a high-rise if it goes, at least i'm going to go quick. >> but tremors in seattle are no joke. in 2001, the city got hit by a 6.8 magnitude quake. significant, but scientists at the university of washington fear the next one will be worse. >> we know it's a matter of time. the question really is how much will the city shake when it comes. >> the professor is the state's seismologist. he said research over the last few years says earthquake fault zones in the pacific northwest may lie closer to the city than previously thought. >> the new evidence suggests that the edge of the breakage closest to us is now halfway in from the coastline instead of near the coastline. >> reporter: closer to seattle. >> closer to seattle. >> reporter: what that means a quake impact would be felt much more. how much? researchers say it can produce a magnitude of 9.0 or greater. that's equal to the 2004 quake off of the coast of indonesia

which spawned the killer tsunami. scientists say that does not mean a 9.0 would necessarily cause wide spread devastation here, but vital structure, including some traffic arteries would likely collapse. people would most certainly die. right above me is the alaska way via duct. it carries 100,000 cars a day. one expert told us he'd be more surprised if it stayed up following a big earthquake than if it came down. the 1999 earthquake destroyed a similarly designed via duct. 42 people die. and 200,000 homes across seattle and the suburbs are considered vulnerable. some have heeded the warning. peter lynch is having his two-story house retrofitted to withstand a powerful shake. >> i would much rather be prepared than wait for the big one to come and have to pick up the pieces. >> reporter: but many don't have or aren't willing to shell out the $5,000 to have the work done.

residents of san francisco, los angeles, already live in constant fear that the big one could strike at any time. now you could add another city to the list. john, kiran, back to you. thanks so much. we're coming up exactly now on the half hour. 6:30 eastern. checking the top stories. brand new this morning. massachusetts senator ted kennedy is asking state officials to change a law to make sure that the state has two senate votes should his seat become vacant. the law was changed in 2004 requiring a special election, because then governor mitt romney, a republican, could have appointed someone had senator john kerry won the presidential election. aides to kennedy said his condition was not changed since he was diagnosed with a brain to a nowhere many 2008. the senator kennedy wants an interim appointment before the special election to make sure the state's covered. new revelations about cambridge police sergeant james crowley who arrested a black

harvard professor henry gates ignited a national debate on race. files requested by a boston newspaper show eight citizen complaints over his 11-year career and two were allegations of racial bias by black male else. crowley was cleared in both cases. these files were release in response to a request by two boston newspapers and the number of complaints against crowley amounts to fewer than 1% of the cases in which he'd been involved. we are remembering a true pioneer of television news this morning. donahue wit, best known as the creator of "60 minutes" died yesterday. he joined cbs in the late 1940s. he devised a late night newscast and also produced the kennedy-nixon debate. he had pancreatic cancer. he was 86 and he will be missed. >> this morning, history is unfolding in afghanistan. the second election is under way. the election that taliban is trying to stop the violence and threats against voters.

a lot at stake there. here to break it all down is a fellow at the center for new american security. he recently got back from afghanistan where he was part of a u.s. review team. great to talk to you this morning. so far, initial indicators that the turnout for this year's election was far lower than it was the last time around. 80% in 2004, now we're hearing of 50%. what can you make of that? how can it affect the outcome of the election? i think first off, voters in some of the more urban areas may be waiting for the end to see if there's violent incidents. voters in kabul and kandahar, especially. the second thing is this is certainly part of the -- this is what the taliban, the network, or any of the insurgent groups in afghanistan want. they want to drive participation so low that these elections are perceived as illegitimate. the problem that they have is the areas that the taliban, the network, the areas in which they can really affect the voter turnout are areas where hamid

karzai has his most support. to the south and to the east. i'm not sure they want any of the chief rivals to defeat karzai. a tricky game they're trying to play. >> we've heard of a gun battle in the capital city of kabul. the taliban phoned in to claim responsibility for a number of explosions there, one apparently at a polling place, a rocket attack in kandahar. is that more than you would expect? >> we focus on the violent activity, we're missing something that's a little bit more important in the south and in the east. key population areas in the south and in the east, kandahar and thetal p taliban and other insurgent groups have waged a war of intimidation, a kind of a silent war. this war has been taking place for quite sometime. so they don't have to have spectacular attacks to deter people from voting. they can give letters of

intimidation or threaten to do certain things. as long as the threats are perceived as being credible by the population, they can drive voter participation down by doing that. >> hamid karzai spoke after casting his ballot this morning. listen to what he said encouraging people to get out and vote today. >> and i ask people to come out and vote so the vote can be more secure, more peaceful, and better -- >> you know one of the big complaints about karzai's regime is rampant corruption. there's concerned about some of the people he associated with while he was campaigning for re-election. people who might want a place in the new afghan government should karzai win re-election. is he really the leader that the united states wants or is he the best person that we got? >> at this phase, i don't think the united states is necessarily

picking which leader would be best for us. but we need a change in regime behavior. wide spread allegations of corruption certainly all throughout afghanistan, no matter where you go in afghanistan, no matter who you speak with. john, if you give me $5, i can go to the streets of kabul and get you an afghan voter registration card. there is corruption and there are allegations of illegitimacy about these elections that have nothing to do with the taliban, nothing to do with the ohtani network. what the united states and the international community want are two things. first off, elections that are widely perceived as being legitimate. doesn't matter who wins there. and the second thing is we have to make sure if hamid karzai does win, he's not going to use the postelection period to staff what he considers to be key ministries with cronies or people he's trying to reward because of the -- because of the election campaign. the reality is that we're trying to build up key ministries, certain key institutions of the

afghan state, such as the army, such as the police. and that's going to be a lot more difficult if we're dealing with somebody lycra she'd dostan. >> you mentioned a couple of minutes ago. abdullah abdullah. the former foreign minister, the man who was a member of the alliance before the war, he's turned into a surprise candidate, surprising strength, at least, in the last few weeks. if he were to win the presidency over karzai, how would things change there in the relationship between afghanistan and the united states? >> well, it's difficult to say. i think one problem that we would have is even though abdullah abdullah's father was pashtun, he's perceived differently. he's tajjic. the real support is in the northeast of afghanistan. the south and east, the pashtuns of afghanistan feel disenfranchised to a certain degree. that would increase with an abdullah abdullah presidency. we may have a positive movement in building the institutions of

the afghanistan, the state is going to face a crisis as legitimacy and we can expect to be rising violence in the provinces, especially in the south and east. >> correspondents in afghanistan today. good to talk to you this morning. thanks for being with us. >> sure thing. still ahead, continuing the series, "the war at home" talking about the challenges that many returning soldiers face. that's searching for a job. a tough job market as we know. and it's proving to be more difficult for some who are coming back from war. chris lawrence takes a look. some lunch.

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40 minutes past the hour. in the series "the war at home" we can see how difficult it is to make the transition back home after months or in some cases years on the battlefield. one of the problems now is finding a job. cnn's chris lawrence talked to returning soldiers about the challenges. >> john, kiran. you know how high the national unemployment rate is right now. the jobless rate for veterans is even worse.

>> reporter: every month at ft. hood, 1,000 soldiers trade their rifles for resumes. they're leaving the army when the unemployment rate for recent veterans is nearly 10%. vets who served since 2001, 160,000 of them don't have jobs. >> how do you feel right now about getting out? >> scared. the feeling word i can use for it is it's a frightening transition. >> reporter: this sergeant is about to become a civilian. >> worries me a lot. i'm stressed out over this. >> reporter: she's deployed to iraq three times, took small arms fire, and had her convoy blown up more than once. she's a vehicle mechanic who wants an office job. and more time to start a family. but it's a challenge. >> the words that we used aren't the words in the civilian world. and to sell myself in the way that you really don't have to sell yourself in the military.

>> reporter: in the corporate world, you have to make sure your boss knows what a good job you did. the military is all about team, not the individual. >> reporter: it's very hard to get a soldier to turn around and write down their accomplishments because it sounds like bragging. >> reporter: linda crist runs ft. hood's clans sigs office, finds jobs, teaches interview skills, and offers career counseling. but the biggest challenge is making military skills relevant on a resume. >> we teach the soldier to market themselves. >> reporter: including appearance. tina enlisted when she was 19. like a lot of young vets, she's worn a uniform all of her adult life. >> reporter: you have to think about business suits, your hair, all that. but vets say military discipline in the experience of actual war make up for what they may lack in wardrobe. >> hopefully with all of this work i'm putting in to it, it works out in the end. >> reporter: bottom line, they

fought in iraq, afghanistan, but in this economy, the thing that scares some of them the most is becoming a civilian. john, kiran? and tomorrow in the final part of the series, "war at home," how one military family dealt with the stress of having a parent deployed overseas. what things were like when the mother, who's at home, trying to raise the two kids alone, felt like she couldn't do it anymore. we're going to talk about how hard it is to adjust to life once the families are reunited. >> so many difficulties for people overseas for their families at home and when they get back together again. a great series this week. coming up on 43 1/2 minutes after the hour. the latest on hurricane bill. where it's headed. the strength. it may be precariously close to cape cod. if you happen to be watching us this morning in halifax, nova scot scotia, you might have to baton down the hatches. rob marciano has the forecast next.

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we can't. sure, we can. the points don't expire... ♪ there is nothing for me... ♪ there's no travel restrictions... we could leave tomorrow. we can't use them for a vacation. you can use the points for just about anything. i know... ♪ the way you look tonight ♪ chase what matters. get your new chase sapphire card at chase.com/sapphire. ♪ all this time you were pretending ♪ ♪ so much for my happy ending ♪ welcome back to to most news in the morning. live in atlanta today, 73 degrees. beautiful out there now. going up to a high of 85. which for atlanta in august is pretty comfortable. what else is new? thunderstorms are in the forecast for this afternoon. rob marciano in the weather center in atlanta tracking the extreme weather. hurricane bill in the atlantic. other stuff to talk about.

rob, good morning. severe weather and we'll get to that. hurricane bill, 125 miles per hour. it's gotten a little disorganize in the last couple of hours. it's dropped to a category 3 storm. but we do anticipate further strengthening. in the last couple of frames, a bit of a turn to the north. that's good. that's what we've been waiting for. a little bit more confidence as far as the model tracks. the good news is they're getting clustered. that indicates confidence. brings bermuda out of the equation except for the winds and waves and parts of the carolinas. although, not out of the woods completely is cape cod as john eluded to right before the break. notice the winds stay at 120 just east of cape cod on sunday morning to sunday afternoon. if this forecast shifts to the west at all, they're in a world of hurt and certainly nova scotia and newfoundland will get their fair share of stormy weather here in the beginning of

next week. severe storms in the nation's heartland to the ohio river valley. rough weather yesterday. check out what happened in minneapolis. 18 reports of tornados. this one did some damages. about 40 homes damaged with bigtime trees falling down. we expect to see some similar action, at least east of that area as that front slowly makes its way towards the northeast. hey, on the road tomorrow, guys? bowling green, ohio. never been. the national tractor pull championships is being held this week. and 10,000 horsepower pulling -- i'm not sure what. but we're going to check it out. tune in tomorrow. >> you're going to learn a lot. >> yeah. how to drive a tractor? that's my goal. >> get you on one of the nitroburning john deeres, rob? >> i don't know if i eel qualify for that, but we're going to ask. >> see you mount up tomorrow. that would be great. >> use muscles he never had. good luck, rob. >> the tractor pulled the weight, not him. >> i thought rob was going to be

pulling a tractor. that's -- a little known category they're starting this year. we'll see. mean whim, whil meanwhile, we want you to decide where rob should go next. we have fridays left in the summer. he's going here because you guys wanted him to. go to cnn..com/amfix. send him some ideas. >> co-ops for health insurance. a great idea. good way to get health insurance. what about co-ops for a different type of care, baby care? could that be something that could fly? (announcer) what are you going to miss when you have an allergy attack? achoo! (announcer) benadryl is more effective than claritin at relieving your worst symptoms. and works when you need it most. benadryl. you can't pause life. ( revving, siren blares )

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welcome back to the most news in the morning. a simple concept really. i'll watch your kids, you watch mine. that's the idea behind

babysitter co-ops. >> especially in the economy where people are looking for ways to save money. a great idea, working for a lot of people. they're popping up all over the country. parents aren't just saving money with this new scenario. they're getting peace of mind. it's, after all, other parents helping you to watch your kids. john, kiran, families are looking to save money anyway they can right now without giving up too much sanity when it comes to kids, one group of parents is hit on the perfect solution to cut costs. it's 7:30 on a wednesday. and expectant mom mckila birmingham is taking time off from her own family to baby sit. >> my house is a mess right now. to come over to someone else's house is a little refreshing. >> she's not your average babysitter. first, she's doing this for free. she runs her own business, juggles the family budget. and jake and fee you in a mcclain are good friends, all part of the baby sitting

cooperative in brooklyn, new york. >> the natural network of grandmothers and aunts and uncles to baby sit is not here. it's great to be on the intimate level with other families. >> reporter: 15 families trade baby sitting services for points, earning four points an hour baby sitting which they later swap to get their own time off. >> my mom came up from australia. i saved up points on baby sitting so i could go out. >> reporter: with everybody looking to save money these days, baby sitting co-ops are thriving. brooklyn mom sharon inge and christine la beck started the co-op by word of mouth less than a year ago. there's a waiting list to get in. >> you use it once a month? >> not enough. we'd like to use it more. >> reporter: families commit to baby sitting twice a month, signing up on-line, either to sit or cash in their points. >> submitted my request. >> reporter: the co-op meets regularly and makes sure everybody is on the same page when it comes to rules like

child proving and medical releases. >> i think something like this becomes like your extended family. you have people you can trust to watch your kids. >> reporter: the ability to go out for a few hours like you're doing tonight, what does it do for you. >> keeps us sane. >> it's liberating to walk out the front door and remember who you were before the kids. >> reporter: to join the co-op, you must be recommended by two other neighborhood families. the savings are substantial. as much as $80, the average pay in big cities like new york where families are also expected to provide cab fare home for the babysitter. john, kiran. >> it sounds good except one thing i noticed. the guy drinking wine. drinking wine in one hand and shaking a baby toy with the other. being sober watching other people's kids be rule number one. >> not offering the wine to the baby. thank goodness for small miracles. bill richardson is talking to the north koreans for the

last few hours. back at it today. before he starts day two of the mini summit with them, he stops by to talk to us. what could this hold in terms of negotiations between the united states and north korea and possible opening in diplomatic relations. find out from the governor. 55 minutes after the hour. wouldn't it be great if it were easy to spot the good guys ? you know, the guys who do a super job. introducing the superguarantee. go to superpages.com to find a business with the superguarantee. we're so confident in these super businesses we stand behind their services. you'll get the job done right or we'll step in and help to make it right. sign up for free at superpages.com the new superguarantee making the good guys easy to find.

♪ money money money money ♪ ♪ money money money money ♪ money ♪ three minutes before the top of the hour. they can be harsh enough on people with a mountain of unpaid bills. some debt collectors are going after people who don't owe money. collectors are making threatening phone calls or posing in some cases as lawyers or police officers. he's taken more than a dozen agencies to court trying to shut them down. mary snowe has more. michelle says she'll never forget the call she got the same day her daughter was diagnosed with autism -- a man posing as a lawyer claimed she owed $4400

and said her arrest was imminent if she didn't pay up. >> he was getting very insistent and started, you know, i don't remember all of the words, but started talking about the kids seeing you arrested. if there's nobody there. if your husband can't make it home, child protective services will have to take your kids. >> reporter: she wasn't in debt. but feeling the pressure, she relented. gave the number of her bank account and lost $900. dorothy gilbert teared up listening to the voice mail left at her home over a $187 bill that she paid. >> you're totally ghetto. second of all, learn english. get an education. sitting on the fat derriere all day long, making money off of the rest of the free working population of the country. you might want to get educated enough to at least be able to say payment plan instead of payment pan, you uneducated reject. >> that call and others in which law enforcement is impersonated and some threatening sexual assault are tied to operators of

13 companies he's trying to shut down in new york. >> the tactics -- they are so disturbing. so threatening. that they tend to be effective. that's why they do it. >> private attorney joe morrow represents debt collection abuse victims. he said there's been an increase in cases tying it in to the economic downturn. >> there's no money to be pulled out of consumers these days. as that happens, the debt collectors become more desperate. >> the trade group for debt collectors says don't paint them all with the same brush. it estimates rogue collectors make up 10% of the industry. >> the harassing phone calls and behavior is unacceptable. >> reporter: cuomo found a lawsuit against an umbrella group for 13 companies. they were either disconnected or out of service. three individuals in buffalo, new york were also named. we reach add lawyer for one who says he'll fight the charges. mary snow, cnn, new york. >> thanks, mary. once again.

coming up to the top of the hour. thursday, august 20. glad you're with us this american morning. i'm kiran chetry. >> i'm john roberts. here's the stories we're following. breaking them down for you in the next 15 minutes. instead of navy seals, the army special ones forces tracking down al qaeda. did the cia use contract killers? in 2004, the job of killing terrorists was -- outsourced. the price tag said to be in the millions. the plan, apparently, a total bust. we're live at the pentagon ahead. and right now, the people of afghanistan are picking their new president. the polls close in about a half an hour. looks like taliban threats in some cases kept people away from the polls. so what does that mean for the election there? and also what is afghanistan's election mean for america's mission in that war torn nation? that full global resources of cnn are on the ground tracking every side of the story. halfway through a two-day summit with north korean

diplom diplomats, bill richardson joins us. find out why pyongyang says they're owed a seat at the table with the obama administration. >> one of the most influential women in the world. one tops it list for the fourth year in a row. it isn't oprah -- she isn't in the top 40. our christine romans tell us who made the list and who didn't. new evidence that the cia used contract killers to try to take out terrorists. in 2004, when american forces were fully engaged in iraq, contractors from blackwater, usa, known as se services, were hired to hunt down and execute top al qaeda operatives. the program costs millions of dollars but was cancelled before many terrorists were killed. barbara starr is tracking the story from the pentagon this morning. barbara, this is, to say the least, quite a surprise. >> it is. it's something out of the hollywood movie ifs you think about it. this story appear in "the new york times" earlier today. it's getting a lot of attention. we have now spoken with a source

directly familiar with the program who confirms to cnn that, yes, indeed, at one point, the cia had hired blackwater to undertake this program. as we are understanding it, blackwater is no longer involved. this is back in 2004. it was a program the cia started that involved training, surveillance, and, indeed, with the aim of targeted killing of top al qaeda officials. now black wawater's involvement ended a couple of years ago, we're told. but other contractors, other entities were involved. leon panetta, the director of the cia, cancelled the program, actually, earlier this year once he learned about it and learned that congress had never been notified about the full scope of the program. he cut it all out. it was moving in to what we are told is a more operational phase at that time. and it was then that director

panetta felt congress had to be notified about what was going on. very controversial. blackwater, obviously, a very well known security firm, not just for its work in iraq and afghanistan, but well known inside the intelligence community, they have hired top intelligence officials in the past to work for them. they have a very tight relationship with the cia. john. >> something that many people might not understand. if the cia gets in to the business of targeting and killing terrorists, basically, assassinations, why not just have the military do it? why not an outside contractor? >> exactly. certainly the military has quite a sufficient capability to target and kill anybody in the terrorist world that it deems that it should. why? why go outside to conduct this type of business? well, the issue is plausible denibld deniability. we're told to put some distance between the official government entities or the pentagon or the

cia contracted out. if those people were to get in to trouble in one of those countries, it becomes much easier simply to walk away from it all. you don't have the tag of official u.s. government involvement. very sensitive work. something they didn't want a u.s. government to face. john? >> barbara starr at the pentagon. thanks so much. today's elections in afghanistan are a crucial test of stability and an early test of the war strategy in general. the taliban has promised to derail the process there. many people are going to the polls rising above the attacks and they're risking their lives. turnout has been low. we have a correspondent live on the phone in kabul with more on what's going on in afghanistan today. atia? >> hi, kiran. the turnout in the capital of kabul has been low, particularly at the polling station we're at. we've seen officials, ana members of the after afghanistan national army. but the most part, the fear has

set in the afghan people, particularly in the capital. the capital usually considered one of the safest parts in afghanistan. been a bloody week. the taliban making good on their threat and very much with afghans throughout. there has been a turnout in the northern and western parts of the country. those are areas considered safer. those are areas considered not controlled by the taliban. but, again, the afghanistan people falling for the taliban intimidation at the same time realizing it's not worth their life to go out and vote for a government they don't believe in. kiran? >> the american audience watching this morning. explain what's at stake here for us? >> the truth is that we can't give up on afghanistan at the moment. this is a country that we did pretty much leave after the soviets withdrew. we did not pay much attention to it -- the world didn't pay attention to it. we saw the rise of the taliban, the rise of al qaeda. we saw september 11. we have been here for eight years now. and it's -- it's been a while.

and the afghan people -- they're not happy. there was a time when it was ignored. it was a forgotten war. but right now, the afghan people do need help. they realize right now they don't know who to turn to. some of them turning to the taliban for protection from the government. some of them turning to the government for protection from the coalition forces. in the end, they don't know who to trust. what they do ask for from coalition countries from the u.s. to stay here not necessarily by force but the way of building infrastructure, building jobs. if you talk to the average afghan, they say their number one concern is not necessarily their security as it is their poverty. kiran? >> all right. tia there for us there in afghanistan this morning. we were looking moments ago at live pictures from a polling station there in kabul today. also new this morning -- with the administration committed to shutting down the prison camp at guantanamo bay, they reportedly made a deal to keep many prip soners off of american soil.

"the washington post" is saying countries are willing to take the detainees, britain, france, ireland, italy, portugal, and spain. the white house is increasingly confident it can transfer most of the detainees cleared for release and five other european nations are also considering taking some detainees. >> >> seven minutes after the hour. two men are under arrest over the biggest gem heist in british history. two weeks ago in broad daylight. all caught on tape. the two armed suspects got away with $65 million in jewelry from the store in central london. the police will not say whether the two people that you see in -- well, that you don't see -- no, not going to see it -- are the two people who are in custody. >> all right. check your credit card bill this month. there are new rules. they're going into effect today. they're designed to prevent you from paying higher fees without warning or if you miss a payment or go over your credit limit. the reports say the banks have

jacked up the rates and the fees have closed some accounts ahead of these ruled changes. so, again, if you get something in the mail from your credit card company, make sure you read the fine print. the cash for clunkers program is going to run out of gas. the obama administration says it will wind down the popular car-buying incentives, perhaps as early as next month. many dealerships say they had trouble hitting reimbursements from the federal government. they're worried that the $3 billion from the program will run out before they see a dime. transportation secretary raila hood assured dealers that, yes, they will get paid. >> still ahead, you know how people are saying health care reform, show us where universal health care has worked. and many people point to massachusetts and say, you know, the then governor romney has near universal health care and was successful at doing it without getting the government involved in an insurance program. so, is romney care coming? our jim acosta takes a look. show and tell you weren't always my favorite day.

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♪ i looked up this morning

>> welcome back. 11 minutes after the hour right know i. a look at boston, massachusetts this morning. clou cloudy, mostly. 72 degrees. a little later. clouds clearing. 84 degrees. to the make or break push on health care reform right now. while democrats talk about a go it alone approach, harry reid says he still prefers a bipartisan deal, but added, patience is not unlimited. and there's the hanging question -- is the white house willing to pass reform without a public option? what would that look like? "american morning" jim acosta is in boston where people may already know the answer to that question. and they're imminently familiar -- >> that's right. >> with universal health care. morning, jim. >> that's correct, john. you're right. earlier this week, as you know, the white house took a lot of heat from democrats when it seemed to back away from the public option in the plans for health care reform. what does reform look like without a public option? according to health care experts, it looks a lot like romney care.

>> reporter: if washington wants to reform health care with bipartisan support, consider what former republican presidential candidate mitt romney did as governor in democratic massachusetts. >> you don't have to have a public option. you don't have to have government get in the insurance business to make it work. >> reporter: three years after enacting the own version of reform, massachusetts has near universal coverage. taxpayer watchdogs say it's affordable. >> the wide spread assumption treated as fact that's breaking the bank in massachusetts. >> reporter: is it? >> not breaking the bank at all. not costing much at all relative to what we were spending four years ago. >> reporter: health care experts say it's popular. >> seven in ten people in the state support the program. and no more than 1 in 10 would repeal it. >> reporter: unlike democratic proposals that would give americans the choice of a government-run health care plan, massachusetts has no public option. instead, people in the state are

mandated to buy private insurance. the poor get subsidies. analysts say romney care is basically obama care minus the public option. >> the president drops it public option. will you come out and support him? >> it depends on what's in the rest of the bill. >> reporter: romney says democrats only have themselves to blame for the rowdy town hall meetings. >> if you're dealing with people's health care and their ability to choose their doctor, their ability to decide what kind of health care plan they want, you're going to find people are going to respond very emotionally. >> reporter: as for the other former governor's now debunk claim it would lead to death panels. >> reporter: what did you think when you heard governor palin talk about death panels. >> i hasn't read that to the bill. >> reporter: you think it's okay for the governor of alaska talking about death panels and pulling the plug on grandma. >> not going to tell people what they can and cannot talk about. >> reporter: but romney warns that bipartisanship is the only road to health care reform.

>> the only road to success on an issue that's so emotional and important to many americans to go through the lengthy process of working on a bipartisan basis. he promised that. >> reporter: now the massachusetts model does have its problems. experts say it does not control rising health care costs. something romney says has to be tackled on a national level. but, john, if you look at the numbers, it is quite striking. some 440,000 people who did not have health care insurance before this program was enacted now have that insurance at a cost of some $88 million a year. that's million dollars out of a budget that's around $30 billion according to a taxpayer watchdog. that's a drop in the bucket. >> anything that begins with an m as opposed to a b or t is probably good news. >> yes. >> thank you. >> jim acosta this morning. >> change of pace. >> can't argue that a million dollars a whole heck of a lot of money. we know a lot of you have questions about health care reform. real answers without the spin. separate fact from fiction. log on to cnn.com/health care.

still ahead, we're going to be joined by governor bill richardson of new mexico. he had a chance to sit down for high profile talks with a north korean delegation. is there a thawing in our relations? are we going to see changes in our diplomacy? could we make headway when it comes to the north's nuclear ambitions? talk to them about all of that coming up. 15 minutes after the hour. racheting up slowly )

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18 minutes past the hour. could a nuclear thaw begin in the high desert? well, new mexico's governor bill richardson is in the middle of two days of talks with north korean diplomats in santa fe. the meeting comes two weeks after former president bill clinton travelled to north korea to bring home two american journalists held there. governor richardson served as am bas don to the u.n. during the clinton administration and

visited north korea a few times. he joins us live from santa fe. thanks for being with us. we'll get your audio up in a few seconds. the north koreans called for this meeting. what do they want to talk about now? >> they have come to santa fe to see me three times in the last few years. i think they wanted to basically send a message that they're ready to engage in a dialogue with the united states. now, there's still differences, whether we do it bilaterally or the six-party talks. but i really sense a lessening of tensions because of the clinton visit. the release of the two americans, the release of the south koreans that the north koreans just did. the visit -- the north korean delegation to south korea to honor the former south korean president who passed away. i think there's a little bit of a thaw. and there -- this trip too to send a public message in the

united states, i believe, also is part of an effort, perhaps by kim jong-il to look at his legacy. you know? they've been the last eight months very negative. very hostile. underground missile tests. all kinds of rhetoric against the united states. maybe the -- it's reached a point where they feel this is the time to engage again. and they're -- their manner was very positive. they were not negative as they have been in my conversations with minister kim who was here who i've been talking to for quite sometime on the journalists. and, so, i feel it's a good -- it's a good situation right now that we should take advantage of. >> when you say take advantage of it. for right now, the white house has said that the -- that nothing has changed when it comes to six-party talks versus bilateral negotiations. they still want involvement in the six party talks. so is there room to negotiate if the white house says it's not

changing that stipulation right now when it comes to any negotiations with north korea? >> well secretary clinton, i believe, has handled this very well. she separated the humanitarian issue from the nuclear talks and we got the two journalists back. i think the way to handle this is perhaps a compromise within a six-party talks. within working groups of the six-party talks. have some bilateral discussions with the north koreans. call it all an adjunct of the six-party talks. but this is diplomacy. this is engagement. so i think both sides need to come together on some formulation. and i think the atmosphere is a lot better to do that. >> and the other question is, though, they felt they were owed a gesture, right? that the release of lisa -- laura lee and euna lee and we were able to come to some

diplomatic agreement on that, they think they were owed a gesture. what's the next step from the administration? >> the next step is, again, diplomacy. for our diplomats, our negotiators, ambassador bosworth, a special envoy. and for the administration internally to decide how they engage next. i think the next step is within the six-party talks, propose bilateral discussions. north korea and the united states, step aside and try to at least restart talks. that's step number one. the good news also for instance is the north koreans here in santa fey are going to meet today with some sort of renewable energy, solar energy entrepreneurs which is to signal even though there are sanctions and they can't do that now, they want to engage with the united states in some way. so possibly this is the time to move forward. >> and do they indicate whether or not they got direct talks with the united states they'd be willing to move somewhere or

come to some agreement on their nuclear ambitions? >> well, they basically said everything was on the table. the issue of security, normalization, you know, the previous agreements they had. although, they feel that those previous agreements from the six-party talks are scrap. but it's just a start. the reality is that for the last several months, we haven't been talking at all. we've been shooting barbs and north koreans have taken some very negative steps on the nuclear front. so i think the first step is to simply sit across the table and agree on an agenda that eventually obviously what we want them to do is terminate the nuclear weapons, to reduce their exported nuclear materials. it's in our interests. it's in north korea's interests. but the atmosphere has improved. so let's take advantage of it. >> hopefully that will be the first step then, governor bill richardson, always great to talk to you. thanks. >> thank you. thank you. who are the world's most influential women when it comes to business?

>> christine romans has the list. who's on it may surprise you. who's not on the list may surprise you just as much. >> a lot of candidates out there. no question about it. >> 24 minutes past the hour. i'm peter jacobsen, and i've lost 31 pounds on nutrisystem. dan marino influenced me and he really pushed me to get on nutrisystem. yeah, i'll take credit for peter jacobsen. introducing the all-new nutrisystem for men, flexible new programs personalized to meet your goals. get on the program, eat properly, you're going to lose weight. it's actually easier than you think it might be. that was really good. thanks. i had awesome results and i've kept it off for three years. for a limited time, get an extra three weeks of meals free. that's right, you can get an extra 21 breakfasts, lunches, dinners, desserts, and snacks. that's 105 meals free. that's what guys like. "tell me, 'do this,' i do it, i lose weight." with prices as low as $12 a day,

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or call a local agent. switch today and save up to $523. listening and saving you money is how... ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ interesting rankings to tell you about. the most coveted risk of the most powerful women in the world. >> forbes puts this out. topping that list for the fourth year in a row. angela merkel, fourth largest economy. she's basically the most powerful elected woman running a western country, a country -- a company -- a country that just pulled itself out of a recession by the way. now, this is where it starts to get interesting. you go further down the list --

marina burrless co-ny, she's the daughter of silvio berless co-ny. she's considered by this list more powerful than hillary clinton, the secretary of state of the united states. number 36. michelle obama, the first lady, the ear of the most powerful man. the man who runs the -- the leader of the free world, really. michelle obama, number 40. oprah winfrey comes in at 41 and she tops queen elizabeth, the queen of england who came in at number 42. the second most powerful woman in the world, according to forbes, is sheila baird, number two -- a banking regulator in the united states is the second most powerful woman in the world -- why? she's front and center handling the financial crisis that dogged the world. she's been cool headed and calm. she's taken over 70 banks for the united states just this year. >> what's the criteria. how do they determine what makes you powerful? >> the criteria is you have to

run something big and important. you have to have either an empire, a media empire, or a political following or it's power and influence, basically. and they have kind of a lot of different factors to go in there. this is power and influence. if you have a banking regulator, number two on the list, you know what kind of a time we've had over the last couple of years. interesting -- a lot of fodder for discussion about some of the rankings. maria burlesconi tops hillary clinton. that's surprising. 28 minutes past the hour. look at the top stories for the next hour. scottish authorities are expected to announce they're releasing the man who bombed pan am flight 103 in 1988. the bombing over lockerbie scotland killed 270 people. the man convicted of planting the bomb on the flight is suffering from terminal prostate cancer and is sent home to libya to die. threats against afghan

citizens kept turnout low in the capital of kabul and other parts of the country. some experts say that could affect the vote. they had scattered rocket attacks and bombings. organizers tell us the attacks closed at least 11 polling sites. hurricane bill weakening slightly. category three still churning across the atlantic. forecasters are warning it could regain category four strength sometime later today. that hurricane is expected to start pushing large swells towards bermuda and parts of the southeastern u.s. coast by the weekend. rob marciano saying he did want to turn slightly north ward, which is a good sign in terms of hitting the coast. >> certainly is. every day this month, president obama is working on the make-or-break health care fu push. the latest step, talking up reform with faith-based religious leaders. in the conference call of 140,000 people, the president called reform, quote, a core, ethical, and moral obligation. he asked those listening to help

spread the word, if you will. >> i know there's been a lot of misinformation in this debate. and there are some folks out there who are, frankly, bearing false witness. you need to spread the facts and speak the truth. >> for more, let's bring in reverend jim wallace. a member of the advisory council on faith-based partnerships and tony perkins, the president of the research council. the president, you heard him there, accused some people of bearing false witness on health care reform. talk of the so-called death panels. this idea, too, that illegal immigrants will be given health care under the new plans. a lot of disinformation out there, in addition to misinformation. what do you make of the president's appeal for people to tell the truth about what's going on with health care. >> i do think the truth needs to be told. in this discussion we're having nationally, everyone is entitled to their opinion on whether or not the government should take over health care. what we're not entitled to is their own set of facts. we have to realize, it's not the president's promises that will become law. rather, it's the bill itself.

if we want to have a discussion that needs to be focused on the bill and what's contained in the bill. there are some serious concerns over where this bill would lead us. and there's clear indications that it would lead us to an expansion of taxpayer-funded abortion in this country, that it does not protect, as it currently stands, the conscious rights of health care workers. and there is concern over the end of life counselling in the bill especially in states like oregon and washington state where physician-assisted suicide is present. >> let's take on some of the issues. jim wallace, give us your reading of the facts in the bill. this idea, as tony said, would be an extension of tax-payer funded abortion. is that anywhere in the bill? >> we heard one of the falsehoods, i'm afraid. in the shouting, in the misinformation. in the fear out there. we're losing the moral core of this debate. which is -- a lot of people are hurting in this broken health care system. 47 million people are not being covered. and many more can't get what

they need and can't afford to have good health. >> jim, i think -- >> i think -- i'm sorry, go ahead on the abortion. >> on the abortion question, there's a broad consensus in the faith community that health care reform should not change. federal rules about abortion. federal funding of abortion should not happen in health care. in fact, abortion should not side track the health care debate. the health care reform that we need. so, we agree on that. and i'll be working hard to make sure two things are here -- one, is that all of god's children get covered by health care reform. and, two, that abortion rules, federal funding abortion doesn't change health care. i agree with that. let's have a broad-based conversation to fix a broken system and while we respect conscious at the same time. conscious rules are important. no federal funding of abortion is important. i agree with that. let's focus on the real issue. a lot of people are hurting in the broken system. >> no question a lot of people

are hurting here. but, jim, i asked you specifically, is there any provision for federal funding of abortion in any of the health care plans? you didn't quite get to the core of that question. so let me ask -- >> let me say, yeah. last night, president obama agreed with our conviction that the rules shouldn't change. >> okay, so you said the rules shouldn't change. but, tony, do you read anything in any of these bills that says, yes, federal funds either will be or could be used to fund abortion? >> look, john, in the bill, if you do a word search of the 1,000-page bill on tonsillectomy, you won't find that. hysterectomy, you won't find that. not the word abortion. jim says the rules prohibited in the federal funding of abortion. that's the annual appropriations rider. it's on one appropriations bill. the government has several appropriations bills which would not cover this present health care bill. so, first off, the hyde amendment is an annual measure that wouldn't apply to this. and secondly, it only requires a

simple majority vote to re-enact every year. this is clear -- it's not the president's promises, it's what's in this bill. there's no question this would lead -- whether you call it taxpayer-funded abortion or citizens paying government premiums to a government system, it's going to expand abortion. it's going to be solved very easy in 12 amendments. >> there's one concern when it comes to abortion. jim, perhaps you can address this. one of the bills calls for there to be so-called exchanges, one private plan that does provide abortion services. now, supposedly, there were protections that federal funds will not be used to fund those premiums, but how can you be guaranteed that somebody who is low income won't receive a government subsidy that they can use to buy that plan? i think that's an argument that some people are making here. >> well, first of all, we've got a long way to go here. there's a house bill -- we have a long way to go here in the process. so, what we have to do is

clearly outline our principles. and the principles last night on this call with 140,000 people, our principles were that we need accessible, affordable, secure health care for all of god's children. we also said that we don't want the abortion rules to change. so we'll be looking, john, at all those questions, working hard to make sure that our principles are intact, that our conscious is intact. >> jim, we can take that -- >> we can take that off the table right now. a dozen amendments were offer in both the house and the senate to make it very clear that the taxpayer-funded abortion would be prohibited. if we couldn't have that discussion. we could focus on what i do agree with you on is that every american should have access to affordable health care. we disagree on the method. we could have that discussion if we take away the contentious issues off the table. >> tony, i will support your effort to make sure that abortion is taken off of the table in this debate. i'm for that.

i'll work hard for that. let's work together on that. you support our moral principle that all americans should be covered by health care, secure, affordable, accessible health care. let's work together and make sure both of those things, in fact, are a part of comprehensive health care reform. because the system is broken and we have to fix it. and don't let abortion derail that effort, please. >> ask the president then to take it off of the table and accept the amendments and we can have a discussion on how we fix health care in this country. i'll be glad to work with you on that. we agree. we need to fix health care in this country. >> perhaps we have in this short amount of time brought the two sides a little closer together than they were. gentlemen, we look forward to you two having a conversation about all of this. reverend jim wallace, tony perkins, good to have you on. thank you so much. >> thank you. talk about buildiill, the category 3 hurricane right now. churning in the atlantic, it could pick up strength. rob marciano is tracking all of the extreme weather for us.

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top of the news right now on cnn..com -- britney spears bikini top 10. she was on the late show with david letterman counting down the ways the world would be different if she were president. number one, finally, the media would pay attention to me. uh-huh. next, check out the 8-year-old daredevil. the high-flying british boy is thought to be the youngest airborne wing walker. why would you put your child on the wing of a plane? parenting skills -- you saw it on "american morning." the internet sensation, squirrels hitting a tourist photo in canada. this squirrel is popping up in all kinds of photos on line. >> you know, i mean, the original thing was the couple taking a picture of themselves

and the squirrel did pop up. do we have ours? popped up in the auto picture. so cute. so the owner was taking it in the next level. >> i heard them talking about it. maybe the squirrel heard the camera beeping and thought it was going to be a source of food. inquisitively looked at the camera. >> there he is. that's not the actual picture. >> there it is. >> this is phil's squirrel. >> don't ask. >> rob marciano is not tracking phil or a squirrel. he's tracking bill for us this morning. no danger of a squirrel popping in to that huge thing -- although now it's a category 3. but could get stronger. >> could get stronger. and still category 3 is a major storm and it will threaten the east coast and certainly canada as we go through time. a couple of days to point out in the last couple of hours. winds at 125, strong category 3. you notice a slight deterioration of the eye itself. but it's going over a favorable environment where it has strength. the key is we're worried about

the track. the forecast model, the handful of that you get between the carolinas and bermuda and make the sharp right-hand turn. how much of a right-hand turn, that's still open for discussion. here's the official forecast for the national hurricane center. brings it to a cat-4 and a cat-3. bypasses the cape. the cape is on the uncertainty. of all things, technical discussion says, you know, the forecast -- it may get a little closer to nantucket than we're indicating on that graphic. anyway, take that as it is. severe weather across parts of the midsection of the country. i want to show you some of the video that came in yesterday. this was a tornado that went through parts of minnesota and did some damage, actually destroyed about 40 homes there. so we're going to see the potential for this kind of action again today. there were 18 reports of tornadoes again yesterday. today across the ohio river valley, some area that we'll see rough weather. latest from here, guys. toss it back up to you. thanks so much.

here's what's coming up on the am rundown. a quake zone, why a city we don't associate with a earthquake could be hit with the big one. paging dr. gupta. sanjay will cut through the noise and answer questions about health care you guys have asked him. 8:00, breaking news, new information from the pentagon about secret contract killers targeting al qaeda. why the cia chose to try to outsource something so risky. it's 42 minutes past the hour.

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could get hit with a big one. the earthquake. >> a lot of people associate california with the big quakes. washington state and seattle is also in earthquake country. cnn's dan simon takes a look. hey, john, kiran. well, when people think of seattle, they probably think of the space needle and those dreary days. certainly not earthquakes. well, that could be changing. at seattle's famous pike's place fish market, workers approach earthquakes the same way as their job -- with humor. >> i guess we're due for it. i guess, myself living downtown. i'm in a high-rise. if it goes, i'm going to go quick. >> reporter: but tremors in seattle are no joke. in 2001, the city got hit with a 6.8 magnitude quake. significant. but scientists at the university of washington fear the next one will be worse. >> we know it's a matter of time. the question is how much will the city shake when it comes. >> the professor is the state's

seismologist. he says research over the last few years shows that earthquake fault zones in the pacific northwest may lie closer to the city than previously thought. >> the new evidence suggests that the edge of the breakage closest to us is now halfway in from the coastline instead of near the coastline. >> closer to seattle. >> closer to seattle. >> >> reporter: what that means is the quake impact would be felt much more. how much? researchers say it could produce a magnitude of 9.0 or greater. that's equal to the 2004 quake off of the coast of indonesia, which spawned the killer tsunami. scientists say that does not mean a 9.0 would necessarily cause wide spread devastation here, but vital structures, including some traffic arteries, would likely collapse. people would most certainly die. right above me is the alaskan way via duct. it carries more than 100,000 cars a day. one expert told us he would be more surprised if it stayed up

following a big earthquake than if it came down. the 1989 earthquake in the san francisco bay area destroyed a similarly designed via duct. 42 people died. and county officials say 200,000 homes across seattle and its suburbs are considered vulnerable. some have heeded the warning. peter lynch is having his two-story house retrofitted to withstand the powerful shake. >> i would much rather be prepared than wait for the big one to come and have to pick up the pieces. >> but many don't have or aren't willing to shell out the 5,000 to have the work done. residents of san francisco and los angeles already live in constant fear that the big one could strike at any time. now it seems you can add another city to the list. john and kiran, back to you. >> dan simon for us this morning. by the way, if seattle got hit with an earthquake that powerful, it would be the first one in the u.s. in decades. more for you in an a.m. extra. the biggest earthquake the u.s.

has seen is a 9.2 in alaska in 1964. after that one, the next biggest one was 300 years ago. a 9.0 stretching across those states. other than those two, the u.s. has never had a quake as big as they're predicting for seattle. that was also in alaska. the 1989 loma-prieta quake dan talked about was way behind in magnitude, that was a 7.1. trying to answer fact or fiction about health care. dr. sanjay gupta will join us in a few minutes to answer the health care questions. ( dog barking ) ( sheets buffeting ) ( man ) whoa ! ♪ ( revving, siren blares )

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the most news in the morning. 50 minutes past the hour right now. if you're feeling a little confused about what's true and what's not about health care reform. we have some help for you. >> we do, we're using all of the resources of cnn to cut through the politics and the spin, the misand disinformation and tell you what's going on. here's a question from our a.m. fix viewer hot line. >> this is anna from illinois, and i was wondering with the new health care reform if doctors will be able to opt out of taking these patients that have this insurance by the government because reimbursement rates may be too low for them and how that's going to affect the patients with less physicians to choose from? >> all right, there's the question. for some answers now, we're paging dr. sanjay gupta. you heard it, doc, will physicians be able to opt out if one passes? what's the answer? >> well, anna's brought up two

points. and the short answer is yes. let me explain this, the first issue is, are there enough primary care doctors to be able to take care of all of the new patients that might be insured now? you may have millions of new patients, but not enough doctors. we did a little bit of homework and found we're about 16,000 short. right now as things stand in the united states, add millions of new patients, you might be more short. the second part, you've got your insurance now, you've been underinsured, you go to your doctor, and your doctor says i don't accept this kind of insurance. that is a possibility. there's doctors out there who don't accept medicare and medicaid, for example, so it's possible they wouldn't accept a public option if there were one. we tried to pour over and tried to figure out if they addressed anna's concern and they did to some extent to trying to get

more into the mix. they say they want increased incentives for primary care doctors, increased reimbursements was mentioned in the reform bill, although, how much was not. also the speed of reimbursement, a lot of time a long waiting period between the time the physicians have missed the bill and get reimbursed and also want to change the incentives so they may invest more in wellness and prevention. but how that all plays out is a little bit unclear. >> and also, we're seeing a decline among students who choose primary care in medical school. it's very interesting to say they're going to be facing a major doctor shortage because nearly 3/4 are going into a specialty, not into primary care. so what can we do to reverse that trend? >> you're absolutely right. if you look across the board, you get about 26,000 medical students graduating, going into medicine every year. only about 6,500 are going into primary care. the number should be reversed. a lot more going into primary care, fewer into specialties. these are what the numbers are

right now. i think one is pay, and one is paperwork. pay, you know, primary care doctors as things stand now don't get reimbursed as well as specialists. trying to pay off medical school loans, it can be tough sometimes, and the second part of that, you have thousands of patients in your office as a primary care doctor, seeing patients in the office and clinic every day. each patient generates lots of paperwork. as we've been talking to these primary care doctors and they are inundated with lots of paperwork. we're hearing about those issues specifically there might be some loan forgiveness programs coming out of the reform bill, and we hear about health information technology, being able to address some of these paperwork concerns would be a focus of that bill. >> good stuff. answering questions and as always, e-mail sanjay cnn.com/amfix. good to see you, thanks. well, the master mind behind the bombing of that panam flight

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president's health care plan. >> yeah, elizabeth edwards wife of john edwards, as well as tommy thompson sat down to debate it with larry. here are some of the highlights. >> 14,000 americans lose their health insurance every single day and they lose it because it's too expensive. so unless we create a provider that's going to have cost accessible health insurance, which is apparently not going to be possible with these private insurers, it's not possible today, right now they have the most motivation of all time to make certain those people are not losing their coverage. and yet they will not provide -- they will not provide a program. and we can't do it. it sounds like a great idea. let's do a tax rebate, refundable tax credit to people so they can get health insurance. are we really going to give families $18,000 a year to pay for their health insurance next year? >> no, we don't have to.

>> of course we have to, that's what the average cost of insurance. next year. >> you put up private, private insurance out on a competitive basis, it'd be down around $4,000 or $5,000, refundable tax credit will cover that, you'll be able to solve a lot of the problems, get a lot of the uninsured. the problem is -- >> that's not realistic, tommy. >> it is, elizabeth. >> like we did on part d, we put drugs out for competitive bids and they've stabilized the drug prices. you put out the bids for all of the uninsured in every state and have the states hold and allow insurance companies to come in and bid on that, you will drive down the cost, put a credit, and we can cover everybody in america and that's what you want, that's what i want. and we'll do it without the government running the health insurance. >> when the republicans were in charge of doing something about health care, what they did was just what you said, prescription -- the prescription drug benefit for seniors, and what they decided was that the

federal government could not negotiate the lowest possible price. we've protected -- we protected the companies to the disadvantage of the american consumers. again, we're seeing the republicans protecting the companies, the insurance companies, to the disadvantage of the american consumer. >> republicans want to protect health care in america, democrats want to destroy it. if you want to call radical rhetoric -- well, then let's fix the system. let's not destroy it. >> also asked edwards about her own health. she has stage four breast cancer. she says she's in pretty good health and still out here fighting. also coming up in about 10 minutes, we'll be speaking about health care. we'll be talking about the economics behind it. how do you pay for it? paul keckley will be joining us. good morning, it's thursday, august 20th. >> thanks for joining us on the

most news in the morning. here are the big stories we're covering, breaking down for you. instead of navy seals tracking down al qaeda, did the cia use contract killers? brand new this morning, we have learned that in 2004, the job of attempting to kill terrorists was outsourced. price tag said to be in the millions and the plan apparently a total failure. we're live at the pentagon just ahead. also just into cnn, polling centers in afghanistan are going to be staying open for an extra hour. the afghan election commission extended the voting. it's a good sign for turnout. we were hearing reports that taliban threats kept people at home in some areas. we'll get a full report from kabul just ahead. and scotland is expected to announce the only person convicted in flight 103 is about to go three. he's suffering if terminal prostate cancer. we're standing by for the announcement and we will take you live to scotland. new evidence that the cia

used contract killers to try to take out terrorists. in 2004, when american forces were fully engaged in iraq, contractors from blackwater usa, were hired to hunt down and assassinate top al qaeda operatives. our barbara starr is tracking the story this morning from the pentagon. what have you learned? did these assassins ever kill any terrorists? >> reporter: well, by all accounts, john, no, they didn't. the program was canceled by leon panetta earlier this year before it became fully operational. but a source familiar with the program does, in fact, confirm to us that blackwater was part of it at least back in 2004. the aim of the program to conduct training, surveillance, and, yes, potentially get into the full phase of targeted killing of top al qaeda leaders that the u.s. wanted to get. now, this is all very interesting because blackwater, of course, is one of the best known and most controversial

private security contractor firms in the country. they have worked in iraq for many years, in afghanistan, around the world. they have hired previous cia cop officials to work for blackwater. they have a very tight relationship with the intelligence community. by all accounts, mr. panetta canceled the program in no small part because it had been going on for several years, moving through various phases, but congress had never been notified about the program as would have been required under law. so panetta went ahead and canceled it. it never went into full operational play. john? >> if the cia, barbara, was going to get in the business of assassinating top terrorist leaders, why not use the military to do it? why hire an outside contractor? >> reporter: yeah, why outsource the job when you have a united states military that is trained and equipped to do just that? well, the source familiar with the program told us the aim here was to put some distance between

the official entities of the u.s. government, that means the u.s. military and the cia, make this an unofficial program with no public face on it, no ties to the u.s. government. this would have been as covert and secret as it gets. if these operatives, if these contractors had been on a mission to kill and had been captured or something had gone wrong, it would have been much easier for there to be no u.s. face on it. john? >> barbara starr for us at the pentagon with the latest. thanks so much. >> and again, just into cnn this morning confirming that voting in afghanistan has been extended by an hour. the afghan election commission is doing its best to accommodate voters who are risking their lives and defying taliban threats to cast their vote for president. atia abawi is live for more for us. what does that mean when there were questions about turnout?

>> reporter: well, kiran, to be honest with you, it doesn't mean much, the polling station here did not get that message, and this is in kabul, there will be polling stations throughout the country that do not know it has been extended from an hour. they have already started counting ballots, they're finished with some of the rooms because there was a very low turnout here. we saw people trickling here. primarily government officials and candidates themselves for the seats as well as the presidency. but this goes to show you that the taliban threats were made good this past week leading up to the elections here in kabul with two suicide car bombings and a span of four days. the afghan people thinking, is it worth me coming out to vote if my vote won't count? should i risk my life? and many of them decided not to. kiran? >> all right. atia for us this morning in kabul, afghanistan. interesting perspective, the one you're standing outside of didn't get the message, they're

closed and counting their ballots right now. breaking news out of scotland, more than 20 years after panam flight 103 was blown out of the air, looks like the bomber is going to be released. let's go to a conference and listen in for a few minutes. >> translator: in considering these applications, i have strictly followed due process. including the procedures laid down in the prisoner transfer agreement and in the prison service guidance on compassionate release. i have listened to many representations and received substantial submissions. let me be quite clear on matters which i'm certain, the scottish police and prosecution service under detail and comprehensive

conversation with the u.s. and other authorities. i pay tribute to them for the exceptional manner in which they operated in doing with both the aftermath of the atrocity and the complexity of a worldwide investigation. they are to be commended for their tenacity and skill. when he was brought to justice, it was before a scottish court sitting in the netherlands. and i pay tribute to our judges who presided and acted justly. he was sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder of 270 people. he was given a life sentence and a punishment part of 27 years with fixed.

when such an appalling crime is perpetrated, it is appropriate that a severe sentence be imposed. he has since withdrawn his appeal against both conviction and sentence. as i have said consistently throughout, that is a matter for him and the courts. that was his decision. my decisions are predicated on the fact that he was properly investigated, a lawful conviction passed, and a life sentence imposed. i realize that the abandonment of the appeal has caused concern to many. i have indicated that i am grateful to and proud of those who are served in whatever capacity in bringing this case

to justice. i accept the conviction and sentence imposed. however, the remains concern to some on the wider issues of the atrocity. this is a global issue and international in its nature. the questions to be asked -- >> that's kenny maccatskill laying out the background of the case, convicted in 2001 of bombing pan am flight 103, killing 270 people, was sentenced to 27 years in jail, a life sentence, he has since developed prostate cancer and about to announce, we hope, whether or not he is going to be released. what are we expecting here, diana? out of all of this? >> reporter: we expect he will be released on compassionate

grounds to spend the last few weeks of his life with his family as a free man. he is very close to dying with terminal prostate cancer, and that is the expectation as we listen to kenny go through the facts of the case, john? >> as we said, he's laying out the history of the case and we're expecting to hear from him in the next minute or so whether or not he will be released. the expectation is probably that he will be. there is a lot of opposition to this not only in scotland, but in the united states as well, diana. >> reporter: absolutely, this is an incredibly controversial decision, which is possibly why kenny macatskill has taken so long to make that decision. he went to see him for himself his condition about three weeks ago and over that period of time, he's been trying to make up his mind. the u.s. secretary of state hillary clinton demanding at the beginning of the week that he

spend the rest of his term in scottish jail as sentenced. but the question of compassionate grounds really must depend slightly on the elements of doubt that still linger in this case, the fact that a scottish criminal cases review board did re-examine the evidence of a three-year period and say there were, perhaps, grounds to believe there had been a miscarriage of justice in this case, which was why he was granted the right to a second appeal, which he has now dropped, john. >> let's go back and listen to more of the scottish justice minister. >> i received numerous letters and representations and recognized that a decision on transfer would be of personal significance to those whose lives have been effected. accordingly, i decided to meet with groups and individuals with a relevant interest. i met with the families of

victims, those from the united kingdom who had relatives on board the flight. as well as those whose kinfolk were murdered in their homes. a lady from spain, her sister was a member of the cabinetry, and i held a video conference with families from the united states. i'm grateful to each and every one of them for their fortitude on a matter which i know is still a source of great pain. i also spoke to the united states secretary of state hillary clinton and the united states attorney general eric holder. i met minister and his delegation from the libyan government to hear their reasons for applying for transfer and to

present to them the objections that had been raised to their application. i have noted and considered all the points presented and also relevant, written representations i received. prior to ratification of the prisoner transfer agreement, it was scrutinized by the westminster joint committee on human rights to which jack straw, uk secretary of state for justice gave a commitment that in cases with applications were not submitted personally by the prisoner, the prisoner must be given the opportunity to make representations. he had the opportunity to make representations and he chose to do so in person. therefore, i was duty bound to

receive his representations. i accordingly met him. it was clear that both the united states government and the american families objected to the prisoner transfer. they did so on the basis o agreements they said had been made prior to trial regarding the place of imprisonment of anyone convicted. the united states attorney general eric holder was, in fact, deputy attorney general to janet reno at the time of the pre-trial negotiations. he was adamant that assurances had been given to the united states government that any person convicted would serve his sentence in scotland.

many of the american families spoke of the comfort that they had placed upon these assurances over the past ten years. that clear understanding was reiterated to me by the u.s. secretary of state hillary clinton. i thought the views of the united kingdom government. i offered them the right to make representations or provide information. they declined to do so. they simply informed me that they saw no legal barrier to transfer and that they gave no assurances to the u.s. government at the time. they have declined to offer a full explanation as to what was discussed during this time or to

provide any information to substantiate their view. i find that highly regrettable and therefore do not know what the exact nature of those discussions was nor of what may have been agreed between governments. however, i am certain of the clear understanding of the american families and the american government. therefore, it appears to me that the american families and government either had an expectation or were led to believe that there would be no prisoner transfer and the sentence would be served in scotland. it is for that reason that the

libyan government's application for prisoner transfer i accordingly reject. i now turn to the issue of compassionate release. sections three of the prisoners and criminal proceedings scotland act 1993 gives the scottish minister the power to release prisoners on license on compassionate grounds. the act requires that ministers are satisfied that there are compassionate grounds justifying the release of a person serving a sentence of imprisonment. though the act does not specify what the grounds for compassionate release are, guidance from the scottish prison service who assess applications suggests that it may be considered when a prison is suffering from a terminal

illness and death is likely to occur soon. there are no fixed time limits, but life expectancy of less than three months may be considered an appropriate period. the guidance makes it clear that all prisoners are eligible to be considered for compassionate release. that guidance dates from 2005. on 24th july, 2009, i received an application for compassionate release. he was diagnosed with terminal prostate cancer in september 2008. i have been regularly updated as to the progress of his illness. i have received numerous

comprehensive medical reports, including the opinions of consultants who have been treating him. it is quite clear to the medical experts that he has a terminal illness and, indeed, that there has recently been a significant deterioration in his health. in order to consider the application for compassionate release, i was provided with reports and recommendations by the governor of the prison, the doctors, and prison social work staff. also, as laid out in statute, i've consulted the parole board. this is a normal process for consideration of an application for compassionate release. and my decision is in accordance with all of the advice given to me. it is the opinion of the scottish prison service doctors

who have dealt with him prior to, during, and following the diagnosis of prostate cancer and having seen him during each of these stages that his clinical condition has declined significantly. assessment by a range of specialists has reached the consensus that his disease is after several dimpbtd trials of treatment, hormone resistant. that is resistant to any treatment options of known effectiveness. consensus and prognosis, therefore, has moved to the lower end of expectations. he was examined. it dates 10th august from the director of health and care from the scottish prison service

indicates that the three month prognosis is now a reasonable estimate. the device they have provided is based not only on their own physical examination, but draws on the opinion of other specialists and consultants who have been involved in his care and treatment. he may die sooner, he may live longer. i can only base my decision on the medical advice i have before me. that medical advice has been made available to the united states government at their request and has been published on grounds of public interest. it has been suggested that mr. al megrahi could be released from prison to reside elsewhere

in scotland. clear advice from senior police officers is that the security implications of such a move would be severe. i have therefore ruled that out as an option. having met the criteria that therefore falls to me to decide whether mr. al megrahi should be released on compassionate grounds. i am conscious that there are deeply held feelings and many will disagree whatever my decision. however, a decision has to be made. scotland will forever remember the crime that has been perpetrated against our people and those from many other lands.

the pain and suffering will remain forever. some hurt can never heal, some scars can never fade. those who have been bereaved, cannot be expected to forget, let alone forgive. their pain runs deep, and the wounds remain. however, mr. al megrahi now faces a sentence imposed by higher power. it is one that no court in any jurisdiction, in any land could revoke or overrule. it is terminal, final, and irrevocable, he is going to die.

in scotland, we are a people who pride ourselves on our humanity. it is viewed as a defining characteristic as scotland and the scottish people. the perpetration of an atrocity and outrage cannot and should not be a basis for losing sight of who we are, the values we seek to uphold, and the faith and beliefs by which we seek to live. mr. al megrahi did not show his victims any comfort or compassion. they were not allowed to return to the bosom of their family for their dying days. no compassion was shown by him to them.

but that alone is not a reason for us to deny compassion to him and his family. in his final days. our justice system demands that judgment be imposed, but compassion be available. justice be served but mercy be shown. compassion and mercy are about upholding the beliefs that we seek to live by remaining true to our values as a people no matter the severity of the provocation or the atrocity perpetrated. for these reasons and these reasons alone, it is my decision

that mr. abdelbaset ali mohmed al megrahi now terminally ill with terminal cancer be released on compassionate grounds and be allowed to return to libya to die. i will now take questions. >> so after a rather detailed, shall we say, explanation of his decision, kenny macatskill saying he will release al megrahi because upon examinations by doctors there in scotland, they assume he has about three months to live due to terminal cancer. what you saw earlier was he rejected a petition for a prisoner transfer and did say he

would release him on compassionate grounds. bound to provoke a lot of discussion over the next few years. >> as he said in the moments before moments before that he showed no compassion -- he also says he believes he has less than three months to live. >> keeping in mind that he was convicted in 2001 of killing 270 people on board pan am flight 103, sentenced to 27 years. we'll expect a lot of discussion over this over the next few hours. we're going to be speaking about health care costs with paul keckley, what is the cost of doing nothing? what is the cost of universal health care? it's 27 minutes past the hour.

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♪ my legs are sticking to the vinyl ♪ ♪ and my posse's getting laughed at. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free- credit report dot com, baby. ♪ welcome back, 29 minutes past the hour right now, we check our top stories. we're still tracking hurricane bill churning through the open waters of the atlantic. actually moving closer to bermuda now. bill did weaken slightly, but still a strong category three storm and expected to regain strength sometime today. right now maximum sustained winds near 125-mile-per-hour. and bill is expected to affect the eastern u.s. coast, at least with large swells as early as tomorrow. massachusetts senator ted kennedy is asking state leaders to change a law so that the state is covered should his senate seat become vacant. in a letter, kennedy asks that the governor be granted the power to temporarily appoint someone before a new senator is elected in a special election.

and the cash for clunkers program is going to run out of gas. the administration now saying it will wind down the popular car-buying incentive, perhaps as early as next month. many dealerships say they've had trouble getting reimbursements and worried the $3 billion will run out before they even see a dime. transportation secretary ray lahood did ensure dealers they will get paid and they also tripled the number of people dealing with getting the dealers getting reimbursed. well, it is a critical issue in the make or break debate. how to ensure americans can get health care? something the president addressed during his state of the union address. let's listen. >> we must also address the crushing cost of health care. there's a cost that now causes a bankruptcy in america every 30 seconds. by the end of the year, it could cause 1.5 million americans to lose their homes. >> paul keckley is a health care economist with the center for

health solutions, non-partisan research center. thanks for being with us. now, it's interesting the health care reform debate started out as being about universal health care, insuring the uninsured. making sure people falling through the cracks get the health care they need. it's now also turned, at least people making the case of reform, into a financial necessity. explain that. >> well, in the speech you referenced there, the president said we have to reduce costs and cover everyone. that was the challenge laid down for a bill this year. maybe the part of reducing costs didn't catch on at that point. and it really doesn't resinate with joe public. because we're sheltered from cost. we really don't know what things cost. because there's so many ways it's disguised from what we really understand. so now we're talking about cost because it affects everyone. so that's going to be more topical in the weeks ahead. >> the other interesting thing was to get to the bottom or explain to all of us and myself

included how we end up paying for health care regardless of whether we have insurance or we don't. whether we have a good plan or not. explain how those costs are passed on to us in our daily lives. >> well, there are a lot of hidden taxes. so you pay indirectly for health care every time you pay a hospital or doctor bill, you pay for it in the goods that you buy and pay for it through taxes. so we're paying for it. it's not as direct as people might find more easy to understand. so that's what complicates it. if you have employer-sponsored insurance, for instance, you only see 1 out of $7 that are paid for your insurance. so we've not done a good job of being transparent about prices in health care. >> all right, so as we talk about ways that we end up paying for health care, what about ways to reduce health care costs in the long-term but also insure everyone? as you said it was a challenge laid down by the president and we've been hearing words about rationing health care, hearing

there has to be decisions on who deserves what treatment and why. how does all of that factor in from an economic perspective? >> well, it's tough because the reason we have high health costs that are basically double the rate of wage increases is one, we live unhealthy lifestyles. we don't do things that we should do, but most people don't attribute that to anything they can control. interestingly. so 31% of us are obese and a lot of people show up with problems. second, we use technology and services more than we should. it's called supply sensitive care. we do more, sometimes, instead of doing right things. and third, our incentives reward volume, not outcomes. so that's how we got here. >> you're talking about fee for services and doctors get paid by the service. >> we do more. >> not a salary. >> and sometimes that's because we fear being sued. and sometimes it's because there's more money to be made. i thought what sanjay said earlier was intriguing that 1

out of 4 doctors are going into primary care. >> even less. out of the the doctors graduating for medical school, 75% of them will go into a specialty. it's more lucrative. they make more money. and the danger in that, as we've been discussing as sanjay pointed out, it's the primary care physicians that are going the be needed most as we try to expand health care. and they're on the front lines of preventive care. if we're not meeting with a primary care physician and finding out ways to prevent disease, then we're going to be down the road -- >> 9 of the 15 reasons people are admitted to the hospital are the result of a disease not treated appropriately at a chronic stage. >> right. so how do we get more primary care doctors? and figure out a way to keep costs down ourselves? >> our studies say people don't understand our system. and that in other countries, developed systems are taught from grade school up. so we've got to begin educating

people about how or system works, first. second, personal accountability has to be part of any reform effort. we can't simply say government or private insurance doctors or hospitals are the solution. we have to look at ourselves. third, we have to shift the incentives. the incentives are not aligned to get the best result to retain cost at a level that's appropriate and improve quality. and i think lastly, we've got to quit demonizing the players. this is not about bad people, this is about a flawed system. so we have to change the system instead of picking this part of the system and saying it's wrong, i'm right. >> and quickly, because we're almost out of time here, but do you see this getting done? you talk about all of the challenges ahead of us, do you see us passing something workable? >> we'll pass something, what that might be, we don't know, but i think we will. >> paul keckley with the center for health solutions. we know you have a lot of

questions, as well. we've been sorting fact from fiction as best as we can trying to get answers from you, and it's online, healthcnn.com/health care. well, the michael jackson investigation takes another interesting turn after the coroner saying that its report was done, the investigation was over. they said an investigator out to see michael jackson's dermatologist. what's up with that? 36 minutes after the hour. bicycle, i've missed you.

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♪ well, you want to create jobs? one north carolina restaurant order says send some stimulus money his way. he'd create 50 jobs within three months, he says, all he needs is a loan. >> a tough new world out there, entrepreneurs wanting to expand their businesses. running in the walls, trying to get credit. christine romans joins us for this money in main street report. it's been tough. >> and it's not really simple, really, getting the money to the people that can create the jobs. some small businesses create the majority of new jobs. we met this entrepreneur passionate that stimulus money should flow to small business. he says he's ready to expand,

hire right now, but it's not as simple as that. >> dinner time in lumberton, north carolina. >> everything's good. >> reporter: restaurant owner rod. >> we did $1.2 million in 2007, it's not bad for a small town, small restaurant. >> reporter: he's got 35 employees, crowded bar on weekends, a dependable banquet business. five years ago he turned a century old mule stable into this. he's confident he's got the ingredients to open another restaurant, here. 35 miles north on i-95 in fayetteville. >> i'll hire 50 people in three months if i get the money i'm looking for. >> reporter: 150,000 to be exact. >> my issue is that stimulus money that everybody's talking about needs to flow through to small businesses like this one. i don't want a bailout, i just want to open the door. i'll walk through it myself. >> reporter: so far, that door is shut. we called bb & t bank, the area's biggest small business lender and asked them why.

turns out, his credit score doesn't match his confidence. a spokeswoman for bb&t who recently paid back its own $3 billion bailout said we would've turned him down based on his credit history. he admits to bumps in the road that have dinged his credit. this is the new world of lending. >> return to the old-fashioned lending standards, you know, they're making loans with the expectation that all of them are going to be repaid. >> reporter: that means making fewer loans to only the best applicants. even small business owners who have had no trouble borrowing in the past are being turned away. >> we've sort of ended up in the chicken and egg situation where the banks don't want to make the loans because the small business sector has been having trouble, but then small business owners can't get the financing they need to expand. >> reporter: the number of new small business loans is less than half what it was before the recession. but the stimulus has helped. the amount of money loaned through the programs has risen 50% since february.

>> this is -- >> reporter: the entrepreneur, he doesn't have the loan, but he still has the vision. >> and you look at this parking lot and you see cars? >> i see it full. >> reporter: and you see a successful restaurant. >> he wants to use the recession to expand. many others in the small business trenches are trying to survive. and for them, getting money right now is critical. banks are tightening standard, that makes credit, cash flow, every number that much more critical. and we've got some important tips for entrepreneurs and small business owners who looking for cash to stay in business, go to cnn.com/moneyinmainstreet and an important checklist on what you need, how to improve your credit, where you need to look for the loan you need. and we want to hear your small business struggles and success. keep sending us your stories. that's how we found rod redfern, watching american morning and telling us his story. >> he's an ex-patriot canadian

and has the optimism of one, as well. >> he's been a businessman for years and years. 20 years ago, and he was -- he had a sunglasses business. and he said yeah, a long time ago john roberts wore them on the air when you were a v.j. or something. >> small world. >> be nice to people whenever you meet them. >> you never know. >> thanks so much. >> you're welcome. >> you should be nice to be for the heck of it. >> that's true. i agree. >> for more stories of people thriving in a tough economy, watch more money in main street reports 8:00 eastern right here on cnn. latest on the michael jackson investigation. what appeared to be a closed case, new twists and turns going with it. why is the coroner's office looking into michael jackson's dermatologist? we'll find out coming up next, 43 1/2 minutes past the hour. i would say convenience is something

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a new twist this morning in the michael jackson investigation. the los angeles coroner's chief investigator went back yesterday to the office of jackson's long time dermatologist dr. arnold kline. just last week, the coroner said a thorough report into jackson's death was complete. why the second search? the former new york city prosecutor has also defended anesthesiologists in medical malpractice cases, he's with us this morning. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> what do you may of the fact that this investigation might not be so closed? >> i'm not surprised, john, they're trying to make a case out against a doctor for manslaughter. very hard thing to do. they want to make sure that all of the is have been dotted and ts have been crossed. they're going back to this orlan arnold kline, to see what drugs

michael jackson was taking and how those drugs maybe affected the drugs that were prescribed by dr. murray. they need a complete package put together before they proceed with a criminal case. >> we don't have the official toxicology report, it's being held by the lapd, but there's been some reporting that he might have had more than propofol in his system the day he died. and the doctor said the most dangerous drug he ever prescribed to michael jackson was demerol, a narcotic, controlled substance, could he have a potential exposure? >> well, kline tried to minimize the use of demerol, as if it's not a dangerous drug. it's a highly addictive and as you've indicated controlled substance and opiate and you develop a tolerance and supposedly michael jackson had been taking demerol for years. his tolerance may have caused him to take increased amounts. now the real question is, if kline prescribed large amounts of demerol to a drug addict, that could be criminal conduct.

but it also could affect the case against murray because if murray used propofol, which is the drug used apparently to help him sleep in the face of large amounts of demerol, that could've caused and contributed to the death. law enforcement authorities want to know about these drugs and the dosages that were prescribed. >> neither one of us are doctors here, but certainly there is possibilities to start to combine powerful drugs like this, you get into respiratory depression, which could lead to him stop breathing and that could lead to cardiac arrest. and it's just, i guess, it's the sequencing. did demerol enter his system after propofol? we don't know any of that yet. >> we don't, and that's why, i think, it makes for an interesting and somewhat difficult criminal case for prosecutors. of course, the defense attorneys are going to come in and say, hey, this is a medical accident. nobody -- this is not deliberate, this was not

wrecklewreck le reckless conduct. >> is he out of his area of operation? let's say use a military term by prescribing him demerol? that's a painkiller. >> not necessarily. dentists prescribe the drug sometimes after oral surgery or root canals, that sort of thing. it was a widely prescribed drug in the past. and he's within legal authority in prescribing it. >> michael jackson did say his chronic pain was as a result of his scalp being burned so badly during the filming of that pepsi commercial. could you then make the logical connection that, yes, a dermatologist might prescribe demerol for him if he continued to have pain from that scarring? >> yes, you can, and dermatologists remove things from the skin. they do plastic surgery procedures. they widely use the drug demerol. so he's okay with prescribing it, as long as he's not prescribing it to a known drug addict. and maybe he was a drug addict at the time the prescription was handed down. >> we spent time together over the weekend and talked about

building a defense as opposed to talking about facts and obviously dr. murray would be building a potential defense against a possible charge of manslaughter. that's what he's being investigated for. so this videotape he came out with the other day. what do you make of that? and is that a prudent way of helping to build the defense? if you were his attorney, would you say good on you? or would you say, what are you doing here? >> i find the use of the youtube video a fascinating development. what the defense here is doing is they're doing an end run around the press. usually defense attorneys say, well, i'd like to produce him at a press conference to give him a better public image, but of course, they're afraid he's going to be asked difficult pesky questions by members of the press. so they do a youtube video -- >> this is a good move? >> well, if if he makes a good witness, it could create a good public image. i'm not sure i had a lot of confidence in him in the video. he didn't give me that feeling. >> give me your expertise here,

was it a good move or a bad move? >> i think it's a good idea, i don't think it was a good move in this case because i don't think he came that sympathetically in the youtube video. >> thanks for coming by. >> thanks, john. still ahead, we'll be talking to sanjay, answering your questions, separating fact from fiction on the health care debate still ahead at 51 minutes past the hour. %%%%%%%%%

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controlled their diabetes with new nutrisystem d. backed by 35 years of research and low glycemic index science nutrisystem d works. satisfaction guaranteed or your money back! new! nutrisystem d. lose weight. live better. call or click today. all this month during the push on health care, we're getting real answers to your questions about the reform proposals. today, pulling a couple of questions out of dr. gupta's mail bag. >> and sanjay joins us live. here's the first question. if the bill is passed, will i be able to see any doctor i want in any specialty? and will i be able to keep my current doctor? >> well, i'll tell you, this is a question that comes up over and over again at town halls, her question. and a short answer is, yes.

based on everything we've seen within the bill, she would be able to keep her own doctor and not be required to see a new one. sounds like she already has insurance. couple of caveats is. one thing if you're trying to go out of network, for example, it's still probably be more expensive than if you see an in-network doctor. that probably won't change. i think the other part of this that's important to point out is that people for medicare or people who might go to the publication option, if there is one, not all doctors would necessarily accept that insurance. so it's -- while they say you have greater choice, it doesn't mean that every doctor will have to accept the various insurance plans out there. >> we have another question. it comes from one of our a.m. fix viewers. jane asks quote, my husband lost his job in may, he's 56 and i'm 47, we have a 3-year-old daughter, no health care, will

anything be done about the high cost of medication? in a tough spot there. >> yeah, and a lot going on with this particular family. so they're not quite able to qualify for medicare yet. and they have a 3-year-old daughter who probably would qualify for children's health care proposal. so the daughter would probably be covered. this idea of having no health insurance and prescription meds, though, is a tough problem. that's where a lot of people are falling through the cracks. a couple of things to point out. there has been negotiating gone on between the white house and the pharmaceutical industry. about $80 billion over ten years. that money won't be drawn down out of the budget. that helps seniors, primarily. yeah, that helps seniors their health care prescription drug costs. probably won't help jane and her husband in this case. it's unclear how the reform bill will help them. they say they have no health insurance, they may qualify for subsidized health care insurance and the associated prescription drug plans. one thing, you know, this idea

of these brand name drugs being able to go to generic drugs faster is also something the white house has talked quite a bit about. they're trying to create these anti-competitive agreements. so a brand name drug maker can go to a generic saying don't make that, the generic drug company benefits, but we do not. and that's something that be addressed. >> quickly, as she said, her husband lost her job in may and we've seen the cobra benefits extended. that was part of the stimulus. people need to check into that because they have -- many people have been taking advantage of being able to have that happen and also get a subsidy. >> they're so expensive. >> good point. they are expensive. >> partly subsidized, as well. not exactly sure for how long, but it's a possibility to look into any avenue right now. >> absolutely. cobra's a very good point, as well, absolutely. >> sanjay, thanks so much for being with us. as always, a lot of people wanting to get answers for their questions, cnn.com/amfix on there is a link to ask sanjay a question if you want.

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