loved one is already gone. >> well, we're going to see you back here at 10:00. we're going to talk about this a little more as well as the rest of the news. according to law enforcement, there is a pipeline of guns that comes from mississippi to illinois and indiana. and they can fix the problem by starting there. i'll see you back here at 10:00 p.m. eastern. "state of the union" with john king begins right now. i'm john king and this is "state of the union." kaes lating violence in iraq. despite a relatively smooth presidential election, an assessment from the pop u.s. general in afghanistan on the situation there is deteriorating. map out the challenges in both war zones and discuss calls for even more u.s. troops. the chairman of the joint chiefs admiral michael mull enand the u.s. ambassador to afghanistan. the president is off for a vineyard vacation. not before making clear recent setbacks won't quiet his calls for major health care changes

this year. >> my obligation to the american people says we're going to get this done one way or another. >> if that's the policy and political hurdles in the senate with richard lug ar and joe lieberman and democrat benjamin carter. and he says the house should push the reset button on health care reform. democratic congressman he manual cleaver gets "the last word." then on "american dispatch" from ft. riley, kansas. off to war again. soldiers and familiar lives the first infantry division take another turn in the army cycle of families praying. this is the "stast union" report for sunday, august 23rd. karzai and his top challenge rer claiming victory in last week's election. it could be weeks or more before the official results are certified. it is an uncertain military situation as well with fighting between u.s. forces and the taliban intensifying.

and fresh indications president obama could soon be asked to commit more american troops. here to talk about this and other global challenges is the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff admiral mike mullen and carl ike enberry. there are complaints, escalating complaints this sunday about fraud in the election. so the threshold question of will this balloting be credible, what is your answer? >> well, right now we're waiting for the results of this election to come in. the electoral -- the independent electoral commission, they're waiting for the tallies to be count from across the country. there's been charges of fraud. the electoral complaints commission is taking those on right now. we're really not going to know, john, for several more weeks exactly where we do stand in this process. we're not sure exactly what the level of voter turnout was. millions turned out to vote. but, of course, taliban intimidation, especially in southern afghanistan, certainly limited those numbers.

but for now we don't know. and it's for us to wait and see and allow this process to move forward. >> well, admiral, jump in on that point. wait and see, could be weeks, could be longer. it's already a very tenuous political situation. how worried are you that if you have complaints of fraud, you have a candidate from the north one challenger, the president who is from the south. are you worried about ethnic tensions and violence escalating and complicating an already bad situation? >> well this election is truly remarkable in terms of what ambassador eikenberry laid out in the face of what has been a growing insurgency and certainly intimidation to a certain degree. and we'll see over the next few weeks how it actually plays out. our forces and leadership of our new commander out there, general stan mckristol, we're very focussed in support of the afghan security forces. one of the highlights for me is the afghan security forces provided security.

95% of the polling stations were open. so we'll keep that focus. one of the possibilities, obviously, if there isn't a majority winner heres is a runoff. so we'll keep that focus and be able to meet with them and they believe he's going to ask for more troops. here's what susan collin said off her blag after meog. >> she said she left that meeting with no doubt that he will ask for more troops. and there are a number of options circulated. medium risk, 25,000 more, high risk, 45,000 more. senator john mccain out this morning saying he is worried that that has been made public because he thinks there is political pressure and that at best then you will split the difference and give 25,000 more troops. pressure? >> i think it is serious. and it is deteriorating.

i've said that over the last couple years. that taliban insurgency has gotten better, more sophisticated and tactics, just in my recent visits out there and talking with our troops, certainly indicate that. >> you have no doubt he'll ask for more troops? >> actually, we're not at a point yet where he's made any decisions about asking for additional troops. thinks gui his guidance is assess where you are and then tell us what you need. and when we'll get to that point. and i -- i want to -- i guess assure you or reassure you that he hasn't asked for any additional troops to this point in time. >> mr. ambassador, you're also retired general. so you're a military man now in a diplomatic role. i want to read you something from senator john kerry in the context of rising doubts here in the united states about what is the mission in afghanistan not only in the congress but with the american people. senator kerry says --

>> we need to remember how afghanistan looked on the tenth of september. at the time this was a state controlled by international terrorism. and so the president's strategy, the administration's strategy is clear. it's to disrupt, dismantle and eventually defeat al qaeda. >> i just want to jump in. there's a credibility question that many people ask. it may not be fair you to in the challenge of afghanistan. but because of what happened in iraq, people in congress and the american people certainly in my travels, i was at ft. riley, they ask these questions. i want to go back in time n 2006, you were on this network when still in the military. and you were asked about the situation in afghanistan in 2006. you said this -- >> things are getting better in

afghanistan in every dimension. if you look at it from the al qaeda or the taliban perspective, 4 1/2 years ago you ruled in afghanistan. now you've been pushed out of afghanistan. >> and then a year later, you were back, 2006 turned into a not so good year. you were back the very next february and you sounded optimistic again. >> i think we're now looking into 2007. we're very well postured for success. we see a very significant increase in the combat power of the afghan national army, the police, president karzai continues to improve governance. i think we're reasonably well postured in 2007. >> it is not fair now in 2009, we're 18 days from the eighth anniversary of 9/11, you mentioned the situation on september 10th, is it not a fair question to say where has all the money gone and why has there not been more progress? and should they -- i'm sorry, sir, believe optimistic statements from their government? >> well, john, i don't think my statement right now would be

characterized as optimistic. i'm being -- i'm giving a candid assessment as admiral mullen said. we have a difficult situation in parts of afghanistan today. what we do have for the first time, i believe, since 2002, we have a very clear strategy and matched against that we have resources that are being mobilized. that's in the security domain. that's in terms of the civilian side here within the united states and this intermission. admiral mullen talked about the military dimension for afghanistan. it's critical. but in and of itself, it's not sufficient. this is not going to be one entirely on the battlefield here for us in afghanistan. >> all right. i'll as the ambassador and admiral to stand by. get colorful underwear for the family at unbeatable prices.

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we're back with mike mullen and retired general eikenberry. let's continue the conversation. here are the three leading candidates in afrg. i want to move on to a major challenge. you have a new strategy for dealing with this, admiral. help me understand. the numbers are stunning. 2001, afghanistan produced 185 met rick tons of opium. in 2008, look at how much that has gone up, 7,700. from 12% of the poppy crop to 93%. do you have a new strategy that allows you to target drug kingpins if you believe they are supporting the taliban and insurgency. is that correct? >> actually, we've had that for many months. and specifically changed our rules of engagement so that kingpins, laboratories,

individuals who support, transport, specifically, these products are also able to be both either captured or killed. but we're just -- >> if there's a pro u.s. government, how does that happen? >> i just think it's something that -- has not been the focus of the afghan president specifically over the last seven or eight years. some of the things we're seeing right now in terms of this conflict and the challenge is really a very comprehensive address of all aspects of it. yes, i've got in changed are we that allows us to do this. but that is just part of the counter narcotics strategy. >> sorry to interrupt, but if this happened under president karzai, do you have any reason to believe that if he is relekted that will go down? >> it is clearly something we have to keep very close eye on and move in that direction. there is a strategy that goes across. this where they grow it. it was a few decades ago.

but afghanistan actually produced enough food for itself. it exported food in this very rich agricultural valley. now we got to, i think across our government and theirs focus on creating the infrastructure which allows them to produce the kinds of products that they used to produce agriculturally. >> want to look now. here's a glimpse at the u.s. troop levels in afghanistan. 62,000 now. the review is not complete. that number will keep going up. ambassador, i want you to come in on this point. 62,000 u.s. troops, 35,000 from other nations. those nato allies. manufacture the nato allies invested a modest number of troops to provide security through the elections. mr. ambassador, define through the elections. are some of these 35,000 now going to leave that the elections are over? or do you have commitments for them to stay through final results? >> we could have a four to six week delay if we go to a runoff. we have commitments from the forces here to stay on if needed

for a runoff. >> for a runoff. you would like more nato forces, sir? and how deep is your frustration that our allies, given the increasing challenge, will not commit more? >> this is most ambitious, the most difficult mission that nato in its 60-year history has ever conducted. and so we're hoping for more progress with our allies. but if we look at this alliance 10 years ago and where they are today, far from europe inside of afghanistan, i think we have to take stock of the extraordinary commitments that are european and canadian allies if made. >> running short on time. admiral, a couple quick questions for you. here's the u.s. troop level in iraq. now down to mid 120,000. 140,000 at the beginning of the year. horrific violence this past week. many saying just what was to be expected. they knew the troops were coming out. the insurgents waited. are you concerned about what is happening in response to the iraqis and are you worried about

the time line? >> extremely concerned about the incidents last week. everybody was. and the key is whether this is an indicator of sectarian violence. one way this can come unwound is through sectarian violence. our leadership is focused on it. i know the leadership politically and militarily in iraq is very focused on. that we've got also a little longer term focus through the elections in january. and then after that, you know that, slope that you see there on the right hand side of your graph is going to continue pretty dra mat lick between march and august of next year. the message is that iraqi leadership really has to take control. >> is there a risk this stops? >> there's always a risk. we have not seen a lot of this really until last week. and we've seen some positive signs up north where possibilities existed before. but it's something we're all very, very mindful of and watching very carefully. not just us from here but our troops on the ground there as well. >> i want to ask you lastly, sir. your impressions, reactions.

the scottish court released the gentleman convicted of the lockerbie bombing. he has gone back to libya. there was a heroes welcome on the ground in libya despite a strong message from the united states, one, they didn't want him released and, two, they want him under house arrest. that division gives comfort to the terrorist and you saw the reaction s there a proposed military sales on the table. as the gentleman that has to sign the order to men and women in combat, what signal did the court send and what you have seen out of libya? >> this is obviously a political decision which is out of my lane. but just personally, i was appalled by the decision. >> and were they for a proposed pentagon sales for the libyans? >> that's just where i am right now. >> admiral, i understand. restrictions are under. i know you would like to say something a bit stronger. thank you very much. up next, three u.s. senators from across the aisle debate whether to send more troops to afghanistan and whether congress hears your concerns about proposed health cakacare change.

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i think i'll go with the basic package. good choice. only meineke lets you choose the brake service that's right for you. and save 50% on pads and shoes. meineke. president obama says the war in afghanistan is not one of choice but of necessity. still some in congress are concerned that there's no end game for the u.s. military mission. let's talk it over with a ranking republican on the senate foreign relations committee, richard luger of indiana. independent senator joe lieberman of connecticut and democratic senator benjamin carter. gentlemen, welcome. i want to get to afghanistan but i want to start where i ended. your reaction, the three of you involved so much in our international policy, to what happened. the scottish court first releasing the gentleman convi convicted of the lockerbie bombing.

and then we can show our viewers the heroes welcome he received in libya after a very direct message from the united states to put him under house arrest and to not do just this. senator luger, what should the united states do now in the context of, a, relations with libya which had improved and in fact on the table for some proposed military sales? >> well, i think we ought to continue our relations with libya. but we ought to condemn strongly as possible this release as the president indicated. he felt it was obnoxious. i think it's important to note that he has a constituency in libya for which we is not appealing and the rest of the world is engaged. >> you were there and you delivered this same message. you hoped he was not released. there should not be that welcome. what should the consequence be? >> that's what we said to colonel kadavy. he didn't get the message.

they believe that he was convicted politically. but the fact is he was convicted in a court of law according to the rule of law. this release, the scottish justice secretary committed an act of gross injustice here. the suggestions have followed both from libya, kadavy himself, his son and from the head of the british libyan business council that there was an intermixing here of his faith with british interest in oil exploration in libya are shocking. i don't want to believe that they're true. but they're hanging so heavily in the air that i hope our friends in britain will convene an independent investigation by the scottish minister to release a mass murderer with regard to libya. we warned respectfully at that point because we hoped colonel kadavy would get the message that he can not expect relations with the united states which had

been good since after the iraq war of 2003. he destroyed his wmd. he is cooperating and counter-terrorism with us. but he could not expect them to go on normally if he was not only released but greeted as a hero. and that's happened. i would say suspension of arms sales. don't expect president obama to meet kadavy at the u.n. general assembly in new york in september. this is a real setback for the anti-terrorist clauss and take us back to a bad place. >> do you agree that assessment? what do you believe is the motivation of releasing? is it a humanitarian gesture? he has terminal cancer. or is there something more suspicious? >> first, i think there should be consequences to those actions. the terrorist showed no compassion for his victims. and to give him a compassionate release was wrong. i think we also have to ask allies what impact this has on our war against terror. here you see a terrorist being released after just serving eight years for mass murder.

i think it's very serious. i think there should be consequences. >> and in terms of the motivation of the scottish court? do you share his passion? >> i think senator lieberman raises a very valid point. i think we need to know what this oil deal is all about and whether twlaz compromihere was to the judicial system. >> let's move on to afghanistan. i want to ask a threshold question first. we all live through the iraq debate. from a policy standpoint and from a political standpoint that got ugly in the united states. senator luger, starting with you. has the president laid out to the american people a clear statement of the mission now where we're going and what the end game is? in afghanistan? no. and i think everyone waits for general mckristol to give really the outline of where we're headed, how many troops or whatever else is going to be required. and, of course, as time goes by, the debate goes on. "the washington post" had polling that indicated a large number of americans are losing

faith in the mission. and the majority of democrats did not really favor continuing very strongly, republicans still in favor. i hope we don't get into a partisan battle of that variety. the president really has to face the fact that his own leadership here is critical. we really can't just leave this to the congress, to general mckristol and say folks we have to address this. >> 70% of democrats say this is a fight not worth fighting. general mckristol says i need more troops. will you vote for them? >> first of all, we have to see what he says. clearly the president is defining our mission to go after the sayerist. there is a lot of problems in afghanistan. we didn't choose, they attacked us. we need to make sure that afghanistan and frankly the bored we are pakistan is not a safe haven for terrorists. that should be our objective. we need now need to know what to

do to accomplish this mission. >> you met with the abc and the general on this same trip. how many more troops is he going to need, sir? >> that we didn't talk about in detail. but it's very clear that general mckristol is going to ask for more troops. incidentally, i think, john, president obama has been strong and clear in afghanistan. obviously there's been a lot else going on in washington and in american politics. recessi recession, health care reform, et cetera. but the president came in and basically recommitted to what he had said during the campaign last year. this is a war of necessity. that we were struck from afghanistan when the taliban was in charge on 9/11 and we can't let the taliban come back. >> do you see any pressure on general mckristol to not ask for a significant number of more troops? >> i haven't seen any. i hope sure there is none. if there is a lesson we should have learned from iraq, some of the pressure put in our general's ear not to ask for what they thought they needed to win. meant we lost a lot of lives,

spent a lot of money. my own opinion coming back from afghanistan with a new team, new strategy, we ought to take the option that general mckristol gives us that has the least risk. in other words, don't dribble it out. don't go for incrementalism. that is a lesson we learned in iraq and frankly a lesson we learned a long time ago in vietnam that it gives our troops and our civilians there state department, economic assistance people the support that they need as quickly as we can get it to them. and then demand that the afghan government do the same, raise the number of security forces that they have in the battle and produce a good government. >> i want to move on a domestic issue. senator luger, lastly on the international, how long, how long do the american people need to be prepared for significant u.s. troop presence in afghanistan? >> that's a question that the president will have to try to define much better. the political guidance yshgs afghanistan should be reformed and how long we stay with it is a presidential and is likely to last us many, many years beyond

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we're back with three u.s. senators, republican senator richard luger, joseph lieberman of connecticut and democratic senator ben carter of maryland. let's move on to a neater issue, health care. let's talk about the question in the context of what we learned at the end of the week. the administration's mid session budget review is late this year. they now say that deficit over the ten-year period to come will beat $9 trillion, nine, trillion

with a t dollars. that is up from a $7 trillion estimate a few months back when they released the budget in february. senator lieberman, to you first. in that context with a bigger deficit, is it time for the president to hit the reset button, forget sweeping health care reform this year, do three or four incremental things less costly. prove that you're bringing the cost curve down and then go after the more difficult and more expensive issues? >> in a word, yes. i don't think -- i get the president tremendous credit for taking on the health care problem. and it really is a problem that we've got to deal with. but he took it on at a very difficult time but was not of his making. in other words, we're in a recession. people are very worried about their jobs, about the economic future. they've watched us add to the debt of this country. we're projected to run a $1.8 trillion deficit this year, september 30th.

more than a trillion next year. you mentioned the ten year numbers. people are nervous. i think the protests coming out of the public meetings around the country this month are as much to do with that larger environment as they are with questions about health care reform. so i think, you know, great changes in our country often have come in steps. the civil rights movement occurred in steps. let's focus on how to reduce cost. let's talk about how to change the way health care is delivered. let's take off the caps on the amount of insurance coverage can you get over the years. let's pay for preventative services for health from the first dollar. here's the tough one. we morally, every one of us, would like to cover every american with health insurance. but that's where you spend most of the trillion dollars plus or a little less that is

estimated -- the estimate said the health care plan will cost. and i'm afraid we've got to think about putting a lot of that off until the economy is out of recession. we don't have to do it now. but we do have to get started. i think the way -- the place to start is cost, health delivery reform and insurance market reforms. >> would there be a revolt in the democratic party especially in the house? you served in the house before you came over to the senate. you know that the fever there, the fever pitch to get this done now, they believe they have the political opportunity. they believe there is a moral imperative. could the president say time out, we're going to start over. go incrementally step to health reform and not have a revolt in this party? >> let me give you three numbers, 6, 12, 23. ten years ago, 6,000 for a family health insurance policy. today it's $12,000. 2016, it will be $23,000, today

of that $12,000, it represent what's a person who is insured pays for people who are not insured through their health insurance premiums. we need to deal with health insurance. >> the whole thing? >> we've got to make sure we bring down the costs. senator lieberman is right. we have to have affordable quality insurance available for everyone in our country. we've got to bring down the cost of health care. it's difficult to do that by ignoring those who don't have health insurance. >> if your choice is, though, go for the whole loaf and possibly fail, not have the votes for it or go for pieces and then come back down the road and say take it in pieces? >> what we need to achieve is bringing down the growth rate of health care cost, making sure that there's affordable quality health insurance for every american. that's our objective. we can define how we get there. senator lieberman raise sometimes critical points. we have to deal with preventative health care swrechlt to deal with health insurance reform to make sure that you can get private insurance. it doesn't discriminate against you because of pre-existing

conditions or cancel your policies or put arbitrary limit on it. that is a very important part. >> is the political reality, i want to bring the republican voice in the conversation, but before i do, is the political reality, we showed one of your town halls on the program last week. got a little feisty out there. is the political reamount, despite what you want, sur, the president's going to have to compromise significantly? >> well, you have to compromise. that's part of the political process. as long as we achieve bringing down the cost of health care and everyone has -- >> actually sshgts public option going to be one of those. >> i think the public sopgs important. you have to have an affordable option available for people f you have private insurance, 71% are in two insurance companies. one out of every three people in maryland who have private insurance have no choice today. we've got to offer choice to bring down costs. >> senator luger, some republicans are gleeful at this situation. the president's back on his heels. he's losing support on the economy and on health care. and some of them say just let it go. let the democrats have this fight amongst themselves, try to figure out what to do to make it work.

what would you do as an elder republican statesman? >> i would advice the president that bringing up the health care situation in the midst of recession, the unemployment problems that senator lieberman described is a mistake. and that, therefore, he ought to postpone the decision. because even as you try to get senator carter's ideas of how you get reduced cost and what have you, you have to get into all the philosophical dispositions of various members. they don't lead to compromise at all. when i was six days as senator in southern indiana, people were not talking about health care town meetings were occurring. it was jobs, jobs. they fear unemployment. the fear of all sorts of bad things happening to your family. the economy malaise. now this president has to concentrate on and he'll get support in doing that. he'll have support with the foreign policy situation. but not given now the way the health care thing came out and we can always go back and forth

should he have had a plan as opposed to destroying it up for grabs for the congress? should you have done this or that? too late for that. the moment is clear the deck and try it again next year or in subsequent times. >> is there any -- the big choice the democrats face is to use reconciliation. a process that most americans are saying, where did that word come from. do it with 51 votes instead of the 60 votes you need to get through something in the senate. would you votes with the democrats in caucus even though you're an independent now? you would support that or tell harry reid, no way, no how? >> i think it's a real mistake to try to jam through the total health insurance reform, health care reform plan that public is either opposed to or very, very passionate mix minds about. it's just not good for the system and frankly it won't be good for the obama presidency. i think we've -- because he has other fights to fight. he has climate change next domestically and financial

regulatory reform, he has the war in afghanistan. people on the finance committee which i think remains our great hope now, at least these six people, three democrats and three republicans working together that, is to hope to get things done. they said to me that they agree on three quarters of what needs to be done. let's do the three quarters. and save the other quarter for a day when the economy is growing and maybe we have something to turn down the deficit. >> we're about out of time. i'm going to close on a lighter note. in the latest issue of "playboy" magazine, alec baldwin is quoted as saying maybe i'll move to connecticut. i would love to run against joe lieberman. i have no use for him. you're in the up for three years. >> well, first let me say when you started with the "playboy" reference, i'm glad you ended with alec baldwin and not with one of the centerfolds. second, you know, i'make my day. what i must say that i respect alec baldwin as an actor and as a comedian and if you wants to

run, that's his right. >> we'll host a debate here on "stast the union. senators, thank you very much for coming in. sense to reset the button on health care. he manual cleaver of missouri gets the "last word" next. fiber one. i'm looking for some fiber.

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cleaver of the kansas city area in missouri. congressman, thank you for joining us on "state of the union." you said this past week that it might be time to hit the reset button in the health care reform debate because of the anxiety out there in the country. does the reset button, sir in, your view include taking one of the most controversial aspects, the public option, government-run health care plan to be an alternative to private insurance, taking that off the table? do you believe that needs to be done? >> no. if we take the public option off the table, we don't have health care reform. i think we need to push the reset button to begin the discussion over. we are arguing over things that don't matter. death panels and whether black americans can go to nonblack physicians. we have to accept the fact, even those that are progressive, i'm in the progressive caucus, and reel yeas that many americans

raise requests and some of them are valid. i think the whole issue about how we're going to pay for this is something that we need to spend more time on. if we set the reset button and go back and try to have a civil discourse, i think it will serve the nation better. >> so you say a rhetorical reset rather than a policy reset. senator joe lieberman was on the program. he said because of the rising deficit numbers and the anxiety in the country and declining public support that he believes the president should put off temporarily the goal of universal coverage and get about insurance reforms and other steps. prove first to the american people that can you drive down health care costs. let's listen to senator lieberman. >> we have to think about putting a lot of that off until the economy is out of recession. there is no reason we have to do it all now. we do have to get started.

and i think the place to start is cost, health delivery reform and insurance market reforms. >> what's wrong with his approach of incremental reform? >> we've had an argumentive and audacious august, no question about it. but i disagree we put it off to some time in the future. i think we need to make haste slowly. and by that i mean we need to go back even erase the vagueness and fill in the blanks where there is vagueness and then begin the process of moving so that the american public understand that's we're not going to abandon them because of the outrage that we heard in august. but we do it slow enough that we can bring them along. i went to the airport three, four days ago with one of my

staffers. one of my supporters followed me to the check in point asking me what was health care going to do for her? she's a supporter, a democrat. she is raising legitimate issues. i think we've got to move slow enough to bring them along. but i think we don't move so slowly that the american public says, well, it's over. we lost another battle. we've been trying to get this done since teddy roosevelt. and i think now is the time. i think we make haste slowly. >> you are a mayor, sir, before you came to congress. you have been a chief executive. you said this about the president of the united states in the health care debate. you said, "president obama underestimated the free fall the nation can already taken in partisan hot tilt had when he talked about bringing change to washington. it has gotten worse. there is something at play here and it's indescribable." as a former mayor, someone who had to balance the books and lead a city through tough times, what else is the president underestimating? what is he doing wrong? >> he's not doing anything wrong. he should be praised for being

audacious enough to bring this contentious issue to the public. and i think that he has done a yomen's job in trying to articulate what this health care bill will do. i think, however, that he -- i don't want to do mr. bush, but he underestimated the -- i think the partisan divide. one of the greatest insults to democracy is the putrid partisanship that refuses to even accept facts. and so as a result, i think the president misunderstood -- or underestimated the fact that there would somebody people in congress who would rather deny him a victory than help the american public. >> so what should he do coming out of the break? if the vote for the public option are not in the senate, should he go down on principle and hold firm or should he make

a compromise that you would not like but might be forced to accept? >> well, let me answer it this way -- in 1965, wilbur meals and gerald ford, two members of the house of representatives, developed a compromise on medicare and medicaid. i think that there is the possibility that president can work with some republicans. and i think he works with the ones who are interested in trying to get something accomplished. and i think if he can do that, then we can get this difficult issue across. but i don't think that progressive caucus, for example, of which i'm a member, will ever accept a health care plan that does not deal with the lack of competition between the health care companies. we have 130 health care -- private health care plans in this country. and they essentially work together. and so we've got to have -- they either need to become

competitive or compromise. and that is something that i think the president has to be immovable on. >> the "last word" today from emanuel cleaver. thank you for your time. >> good to be with you. >> next, heading off to war for the second, third, sometimes the fourth time. take you out to ft. riley, kansas, for an up close look at the cycle of war and the strain it puts on military families. (announcer) the brands you love cost less at walmart. and people love fruit of the loom underwear. ♪ i love the nightlife

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u.s. military commitments in iraq and afrg will continue for some time. meaning more stress and risk to the men and women who serve. in our "american dispatch," we want to give you, no matter your political views on the deployments, an up close look of the personal toll on these deployments. we went tout ft. riley, kansas. 1.95 million. two million americans have gone to deploy in iraq and afghanistan. nearly two million. of them, 750,000 have been deployed more than once. some of them three or four times. out at ft. riley, we visited the home of the first infantry division. sadly, 166 of its members have been lost in iraq and afghanistan. there is a monument to them on the base. while we were out there, plans were on the way to welcome one home and rotate another brigade into the war zone. the price of service includes another year of missed birthdays and anniversaries and missed moment that's can never be

recovered. new combat gear can mean just one thing -- another overseas deployment. for some in the first infantry division, there is a fourth time they'll ship out to the country they call the sand box. master sergeant john versage, a veteran of the first gulf war 20 years, the fourth deployment in four years. for he and his wife, the transition is under way. >> it's real funny. we have a strange psych until our house. dad gets very clingy and the kids start distancing themselves. because they know, okay, he's leaving soon. so we just got to start being very independent now and he starts wanting to spend all the time with them. >> six plus years of constant deployment can cause a family and army so much lessons. >> anybody having trouble? >> ft. riley's brand new training center, high-tech classes in battlefield simulation including the first to improve communications among

humvee convoys targeted for deadly ied attacks. lessons, too, about the strain of military families, including cultural changes. they say they're aimed at removing any fear soldiers or families might have about seeking counseling or other help. not too long ago -- >> it would have been in the medical record. and maybe you would be afraid your command would know or a doctor would notify your command. >> but now -- >> a soldier or family member can go in complete anonymity. i couldn't get those names. the general couldn't get those names. >> that's why we started. >> more family support groups to help soldiers deploy and as they return home and more work for army chaplins like lieutenant colonel david waters, a father of three who will soon deploy again to iraq himself. >> it's an unnatural environment. we're meant to be together with our families. it's not a natural thing to be apart. >> as the footprint sh rifrps,

they hope to offer 30 months between deployments. but the escalation in violence puts those time frames in doubt. >> having time to recover so be strengthened and to get strong again and refortified in your life and your relationships, that's a big key. they're not going away. we don't see the deployments going away any time soon. >> the children pat by the bigg price. this little girl is four years old. for half her life, her dad has been in iraq. >> what did he miss? >> he missed the first smile. he missed the first teeth. missed a lot of firsts. >> he was in iraq most 26006 then home nearly two years. then duty called again. >> the hardest part was when he was going the second time. and hannah was watching a movie

about him and thought it was a window. and we made a home video before he went off and he was reading books to her and he didn't understand that it's not a window. dad is not really sitting behind the glass. and we knocked on the window. she wanted dad to take her hand. you know, that's hardest. she's 4. she doesn't understand why dad is gone. we talk. but for some reason she doesn't feel the connection. >> what does she understand about coming home? >> she didn't, i guess for a while. she couldn't understand how soon is soon. we made a paper chain about how many days we have left. and every night before we go to bed she'll take a chain off. so that kind of gives her a visual for how long. >> just a few links left. sergeant herning is due home within days. others are ready to take their