freezing salaries of all service officers and executives. all in all, hopes to save about $6 billion this year, lisa. >> thanks, maria. and thanks for being with us tonight. next, "campbell brown." tonight, here are the questions, we want answers. are we on the brink of a swine flu epidemic? >> the next few weeks and months will be a very challenging time. >> a dramatic warning from the government, 90,000 people could die in the u.s. this winter. will gaddafi be allowed to pitch his tent in a new jersey subu suburb? he rolled out the red carpet for a terrorist who killed 189 americans, should he be welcome here? and how is that vacation working out, mr. president? sad news on the deficit, another shot from dick cheney, and now

this. >> i think you may be seeing the beginning of a peaceful -- i emphasize peaceful -- revolt in america. plus, tonight's newsmaker, the world champion runner being asked to prove that she is not a he. >> -- bringing it home. >> will a gender test be enough to silence critics once and for all? hi, everybody, those are our big questions tonight, but we're going to start as we always do with "the mash-up" a look at all of the stories making an impact right now. the moments you may have missed today. we're watching it all so you don't have to. and tonight's big news, deficits as far as the eye can see. the white house announcing the big beast even bigger than they had feared. check out the new projection that $9 trillion, people, that

would be twelve zeros. >> a cloud of bad economic news and a forecast of more to come. >> skyrocketing national debt. the latest estimates add $2 trillion to projections made as recently as february. >> what we know is we're spending way, way more every single month than we're taking in. >> the bottom line on america's ballooning budget deficit. >> it means you're going to ultimately be paying higher taxes. >> if you laid out $9 trillion single bills end to end, it would stretch more than 870 million miles, long enough to reach from the earth to saturn. >> wow. >> and that, enough to bring president obama out of his vacation seclusion, officially emerging to announce he is renominating ben bernanke as chairman of the federal reserve, but there was deficit defensiveness going on. the president insisting he is not spending us into the groundr

>> the actions we've taken to stabilize our financial system, to repair our credit markets, restructure our auto industry, and pass a recovery package have all been steps of necessity. not choice. but taken together, this bold, persistent experimentation has brought our economy back from the brink. >> maybe. but today's deficit news makes the president top priority an even tougher sell if he struggles to convince america on pricey health care overhaul is also a step of necessity not one of choice. the president's health care plan still murky to many. thousands of citizens flocking to town halls around the country seeking answers. and today, one of them, the president's own great uncle. cnn's dana bash spotted 92-year-old ralph dunham this morning at a town hall in fairfax, virginia. he was looking for information. >> do you feel like you have a good grasp of what's in the

plans for overhauling health care? >> no, i don't. because the thing's over 1,000 pages long and the house and the senate are going to straighten out the two bills and nobody knows what's going to be in it, i don't think. >> do you feel confused by it? >> i don't really know much about it. i don't know whether to be confused or not. i'm hoping to get some information just like everyone else. >> now, dunham tells dana his great nephew, the president needs to do a better job of reassuring the public about all this. in the meantime, the president's old rival john mccain holding a town hall of his own today. mccain denouncing the president's plan while defending the president's honor at the same time. check out the highlights. >> i think you may be seeing the beginning of a peaceful, i emphasize peaceful revolt in america. don't shout at my town hall meetings. >> no compromises, no

compromises! senator -- >> i'm glad i called on you, ma'am, thank you very much. i am convinced the president has absolutely sincere in his beliefs, but he -- wait a minute! wait a minute, he is sincere in his beliefs, we just happen to disagree and he is the president of the united states and let's be respectful. >> i believe you, senator kennedy. i just promoted you. >> if it had not been for these town hall meetings all over the country, i believe that health care reform and a government plan would have been railroaded through the congress by now. thank you and god bless you. thank you. >> mccain insisting to the fired up crowd president obama respects the constitution, he just has a different philosophy of government. if john mccain stuck up for the president today, dick cheney did not. the former vice president crowing about the newly released cia report on prisoner abuse and sounding pretty vindicated.

>> dick cheney says he told you so. claiming there is now proof that the harsh handling of terrorist suspects paid off in the fight against al qaeda. >> he says in a statement, the people involved deserve our gratitude, they do not deserve to be the targets of political investigations or prosecutions. >> the obama administration's decision to investigate cia personnel for tactics used on terrorism suspects and i quote serves as a reminder why so many americans have doubts about this administration's ability to be responsible for our nation's security. >> what the former vice president is saying there is that this is putting our country in danger. >> dick cheney says that we said a lot of good information came out of this. >> he can't point to any specific lives saved or any specific terrorist acts avoided. >> it's times like this that we conservatives and liberals are like different species. we view this so differently. >> yes, it does depend on who you ask. but cheney sounding convinced calling the cia's practices

quote directly responsible for defeating all efforts by al qaeda to launch further mass casualty acts against the united states. in other news in los angeles tonight, it's case closed for chris brown as the pop star is sentenced for beating up his ex-girlfriend rihanna. >> chris brown getting the sentence we all expected, five years of probation, 52-week domestic violence program he's going to undergo, and six months community labor, not community service, we're talking about picking up trash, washing cars and alike, also have to pay a $2,500 fine. there's a protective order, he cannot contact rihanna for five years, cannot come within 100 yards of her. and if they're at the same event, it's 10 yards. >> that restraining order in place until 2013. a dramatic home coming for an athlete caught in an international scandal. a runner whose identity as a woman now the subject of fierce dispute.

>> reporter: hundreds crowded the arrival hall at the airport waiting to welcome their golden girl home. semenya did arrive, the crowd swarmed around her. only her waving hand was visible. outside the airport, she and the rest of her teammates scuttled for safety inside a bus as excited fans broke the police barriers. >> what a home coming. they're absolutely going crazy and losing control of the situation. >> reporter: eventually in a different safer area of the airport, the 18-year-old at the center of the gender controversy emerged before the south african public for the first time since her stunning win at the world championship. she seemed overwhelmed by the attention, looking shy and

embarrassed as entertainers and politicians gathered around her. >> we're going to have a whole lot more on this fascinating story tonight, including new information about those gender tests we've just learned. and that does bring us to the punch line tonight courtesy of david letterman and his special guest perhaps known as that prada-wearing devil. >> editor of vogue is on the program this morning. if you know anything about this woman, you know that she's perhaps the most important figure in the world of fashion. she also has a reputation of being aloof, mean to her staff. >> well, i'm very decisive, and i try to give very clear direction to the people that i'm working with and sometimes unfortunately they don't hear the answer they would like to hear.

and as my publisher says in the movie i'm not always warm and cuddly. >> have you ever put anybody in a head lock? >> maybe you -- >> david letterman and anna wintour, everybody. that is the mash-up. tonight's big question, is the government really ready for a swine flu outbreak? you've heard the warnings now, 90,000 americans could be dead by the end of the season, that's what we're telling -- they're telling us. we're getting the facts to find out what you really need to know to protect your family. you're the colon lady!

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news doesn't end there. listen. >> there is troubling new report from the obama administration on the outlook for the coming flu season. >> it sounds unreal, nearly half of the population infected with swine flu, but the government believes that could happen. >> presidential panel of advisers says it could kill up to 90,000 americans, and it warns many could be youngsters. >> as for a vaccine, if trials continue to go as well as they have, there'll be small amounts of vaccine available in october, and not enough for everybody who wants it until at least thanksgiving. we're talking about a long way off. >> so just how worried should we all be right now? here to give us the facts, dr. christina johns, an emergency room specialist at children's national medical center in washington. and dr. jorge rodriguez, a board certified physician. we're glad to see you here as usual. try to put this into context for us. 90,000 is about double the usual

amount of flu deaths that we have here in the u.s. every year. should we be hyperventilating right now? or not? >> well, i'm hyperventilating a little bit. i think we need to be concerned. so far in the southern hemisphere, it hasn't been up to as expected, but it is expected to completely explode, maybe in september or october. we have approximately 36,000 deaths a year from regular flu. add 90,000 on top of that, but what concerns me most is that the estimates are that almost 2 million people are going to need to be hospitalized because of this potential epidemic that we're going to have coming this fall. staggering. >> and as we've reported, the difference also here is the target. we're talking about mainly children and teenagers, right? that are most at risk? >> correct. in the usual flu epidemic that we have, it's people over 60 or 65 that are affected. in this epidemic, it's usually

young kids, young children between the ages of 4, 20, maybe between teenagers and pregnant women. so it's a completely different demographic than we've been seeing before. >> christina, i know despite the fact it's kids we're talking about, you actually think that schools should stay open if we see some sort of outbreak. tell us why. >> well, you know, i think there's a lot to think about here. does it -- has it been shown historically that closing some schools will help curb the spread of a similar type of virus? certainly. however, there's a lot of things to think about. for some kids this is the only place where they're going to get breakfast and lunch during the day and have a safe place for them to spend their day. so i think that there are some real pros and cons. i don't think we're there yet, i think it's all about being measured. i am concerned, certainly, am i hyperventilating? no. we need to be confident in our own infection control measures, and understand that this is

going to change and we all including hospital institutions, we all need to be ready for it. >> jorge, let's talk about the vaccine, when will it be ready? who is going to get it? we heard there probably a few people may in october. >> yeah, well, when it's going to be ready depends on what day you hear about it. they first started saying september, now saying october. there are probably going to be some vaccines available in september. estimates range from 20 million to 40 million and then probably october or november we're going to get the bulk. last week, the u.s. actually gave more strains of the virus to some companies to start trying to produce more virus. and it's not any company's fault, this virus is just not cooperating in making vaccines. so late september early october, we're going to start getting 20 to 40 million vaccines available. >> and christina, i mean, you know, you're familiar with the emergency room, which is where a lot of people may end up.

if you contract h1n1, is there any real treatment for it? >> you know, it has been shown that if you can get some of the anti-viral medication early on, and i'm talking within the first 48 to 72 hours of the illness, that you may have the total number of days of your illness shortened. but that's not necessarily universally true. so i think it's important to remember that the -- all the things that your grandmother told you. chicken soup and hydration and rest, all of that stuff is going to be important. and the majority of people who get the swine flu or h1n1 will do just fine. >> all right. and we just put up information there on the screen, as well, about basic hygiene, which is always sort of what you do to protect yourself. appreciate your time, christina and jorge rodriguez as always. thank you, both, appreciate it. >> thanks. tonight's newsmaker. a fast-thinking teacher who tackled a student loaded with explosives.

the kid was planning to blow up his school. plus, vacation politics the president can't really get away from it all. but at least one republican tonight defending him. we should all just shut up about this. americans would think something was wrong with him if he didn't want to spend some quality time with those beautiful little girls and his gorgeous wife. a mobile hotspot that provides up to five shared wi-fi connections. two are downloading the final final revised final presentation. - one just got an email. - woman: what?! hmph. it's being revised again. the copilot is on mapquest. and tom is streaming meeting psych-up music - from meltedmetal.com. - ( heavy metal music playing ) that's happening now with the new mifi from sprint-- the mobile hotspot that fits in your pocket. sprint. the now network. deaf, hard-of-hearing, and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com. ar ki fromobile hotspot that fits in your pocket. sprint. the now network. others by the car of their dreams. during the lexus golden opportunity sales event, you can do both. special lease offers now available on the 2009 es 350.

let's check some of the must-see stories of the day. mike galanos with tonight's download. hey, mike. >> let's start with the postal service. struggling to make ends meet so it's now offering $15,000 buyouts to mail handlers at processing plants. postal officials say there's less work for them. so some 30,000 workers are eligible, mail carriers are not

eligible for the buyouts because the number of delivery addresses continues to increase. to afghanistan now where nearly 40 people are dead after a tanker truck loaded with explosives was detonated in kandahar. rescuers are searching the rubble for more victims. no word on the intended target or who is behind it. but the afghan intelligence agency office is close to the blast site. high-speed chase you have to see to believe. a bizarre ending. he's speeding, stolen car in atlanta, and there he goes, bails out doing 35-mile-an-hour. let's say this, there's a passenger still in there. his girlfriend as the car rolls into a ditch. here comes the shot. there she is. i guess it's every man for himself in a car chase scene. the driver didn't get far, both end up in jail. not seriously hurt. well, that bottle of bud will soon cost you more. beer prices are going up. both anheuser-busch, miller coors plan to hike prices this fall. no word on how much, but new

prices will be set locally depending on the market. beer sales are down this year from last. finally this one, the most dangerous celebrity in cyber space, jessica biel. dangerous because googling her can lead to computer problems, security experts at mcafee say searches lead to web page, photo, video, spam that contains a virus or other cyber threats. brad pitt who topped last year's list number ten also on the list beyonce, jennifer aniston, patriots' quarterback tom brady, jessica simpson, miley cyrus, and basically they say if you're a cyber criminal out there, that's your best bait, celebrity news. >> you got it, whoever's hot, whoever's hot and she is. thanks, mike. >> see you, campbell. tonight's big question. will qadhafi camp out in a tent in new jersey when he visits the u.s. next month? we're going to talk to two people who say the dictator is not welcome.

plus, tonight's newsmaker, a world champion runner who came home today to a hero's welcome, but still being forced to prove she is not a he. >> therefore we are going to support her. and please stop. there's the life i live. and the life i want to live. fortunately, there's enbrel. enbrel can help relieve pain, stiffness, fatigue, and stop joint damage. because enbrel suppresses your immune system, it may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal, events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma and nervous system and blood disorders have occurred. before starting enbrel, your doctor should test you for tuberculosis. also ask your doctor if you live in an area with a greater risk for certain fungal infections. don't start enbrel if you have an infection, like the flu. tell your doctor if you're one to infections,

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gaddafi may soon be adding to the outrage created by the release of the lockerbie bomber. gaddafi gave the convicted terrorist a warm welcome home after the man was freed by scottish authorities. he is coming to the united states where some say he isn't wanted. >> reporter: when momar gaddafi comes for the u.n. general assembly, will he be pitching this tent miles from the victims

on the lawn of a libyan diplomat's home in new jersey? but as host of the united nations, the u.s. may be unable to stop it. >> now residents of new jersey want to block libyan leader gadhafi from pitching a tent there when he attends the u.n. assembly meeting next month. some say it would be offensive after the pan am 103 bomber got a hero's welcome last week in libya. >> and with me now is rabbi shmuli, he lives next door to the new jersey home where some suggest gadhafi may end up staying, and we're going to talk about whether or not this could actually happen. rabbi, i'm going to start with you. we did reach out to the libyan embassy today. they're not commenting at all whether he will be coming, where he will be staying, anything along these lines, but you actually live next door to this property they own. and you say there's a lot of

activity underway there. tell us. >> why would we be silly to believe anything the libyans say. they promised there wouldn't be a hero's welcome. this guy was given a giant party. you cannot believe a word that comes out of gadhafi's mouth. he paid restitution to the victims, and yet now celebrates the terrorist himself. he's an international menace, he was called by ronald reagan the mad dog of the middle east. i've lived next door to that property for ten years, they have invested millions upon millions dollars at a feverish pace to ready this property by september. the libyans are not saying he won't come. he has nowhere else to go. where is he going to put it? here in the studio? and i would say to hillary rodham clinton who has the power to deny him a visa, look, i'm a family man, i don't want an international terrorist financier being next door to the house where i'm raising my nine children. let him go, we don't want him in

engelwood. >> you think based on what we've seen, he could end up there. >> they're spending millions and millions of dollars on a property that's ne and never got a gardener in the past ten year, i haven't been able to drive the bicycles across this six-acre property. they're spending millions of dollars raising it to the highest possible standard, he's a dictator, the money's being spent on him. >> congressman, i know you've been looking into this because you've been hearing a lot from constituents who are upset about it. you don't think he's going to be there? >> well, actually this is deja vu all over again. i got the reagan state department to issue restrictions prohibiting him from using the mansion at all. he stayed in new york city where the libyan ambassador to the u.n. has a residence. i spoke to the white house this afternoon and to the state department this afternoon as i have since saturday when i heard about this rumor. they say number one, that they have strongly urged the libyan government not to allow him to

come, not to seek for him to come to engelwood and that they should only keep him in manhattan. we have the right to issue a visa with conditions that he can only stay in manhattan and we will use that if the libyans decide that they want to seek to have him come to engelwood, but the libyans have not said so. it is my belief that they will not ask for gadhafi to come, but if they do, the united states will use its authority under the act and the 26-year-old agreement i helped negotiate as the mayor 26 years ago and we will keep him out of -- >> but it's not up to you. with all due respect, it is the state department's decision to make presumably, so you have that assurance from the state department that under no circumstances would he be allowed to stay there? >> the state department and the white house both have strongly urged them to voluntarily agree to the condition on the visa. and i expect that the libyans will voluntarily agree to those conditions. if they don't, it is my expectation and belief that the

white house and state department will put that condition on the visa, and i won't take no for an answer and i know my constituents won't either. >> god bless you, steve, but people in the highest positions of government in europe have now been made international laughing stocks by taking gadhafi's word. queen elizabeth, prince andrew, gordon brown, it's been a fiasco because he made them a promise if they released this killer he would go silently to libya and go home. he broke every single word, he's an international fasionista. he loves making fools of people, all of us. they are spending millions upon millions of dollars to a contractor who is going to be severely penalized financially if he's not ready by september 20th. and i find it highly unusual that the white house is asking, which the executive branch is asking the legislative branch to be the mouthpiece. if the white house is convinced he is not coming to engelwood, is not going to be my next door neighbor, i do not want to live

next door to a terrorist, they should issue a statement saying they will guarantee this won't happen. i love my congressman, but this is not a legislative decision. it's an executive decision made by the state department. why is he a mass murderer coming to the united states at all? >> i'm going to give you the last word, congressman. >> i have nothing but enormous respect and affection for the rabbi, but we accomplished this and kept him out of this particular house 26 years ago right after they bought it we kept him out of it, we will do it again. >> we've got to end it there, gentlemen, many thanks. good to see you. when we come back, is the president losing the confidence of the american public? and will that derail his efforts to fix health care? we're going to tackle that with members of the best political team on tv. and then the "new york times" restaurant critic tells me about the best meal he has ever had. >> $450 a person sushi extravaganza and dining as the

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president obama's summer get away, not exactly all fun and games. today he was off the golf course and in front of the cameras facing tough economic news defending his administration's policies and vowing to persevere. >> no matter how difficult change is, we will pursue it relentlessly because it's absolutely necessary to lift this economy up and create an economy and a future our children can count on. >> and joining me right now, mary madeline, paul, and roland martin. the end of august, president on vacation, this is the time for the white house to get the bad news out there. today they announced we are facing a $9 trillion deficit, $9 trillion. how does the president go out and make the case for an expensive health care overhaul when we're facing deficits like that? >> i think he's got to say the

only way over time to get handle on these deficits is to get a handle on health care costs, health care costs are one of the principal drivers of this deficit. >> we're hearing, roland, this growing chorus of slow down. joe liberman says, you know, listen we're in this huge financial crisis, fix that first before you deal with health care. is he right? >> i've never heard members of congress say let's speed up, they always say let's slow down, let's put something off. i think paul is right, but the problem, though, is you have to explain what that means. all right, look, every time the white house says roland, we're going to lower the deficit over time by increasing the deficit. i'm going, okay, i don't get that, i'm sorry. and so they have to explain what does that mean? how does fixing health care now affect the deficit? just putting it out there in the sort of this, you know, professional speak doesn't work. >> mary, you have john mccain out at a town hall meeting today accusing democrats of trying to railroad health care reform through, do it too quickly. but what is the incentive here for democrats to slow down when

it's more than clear that republicans don't want to work with them on this? >> that's republicans don't want to work with the government takeover of health care. and with respect to my friend roland, americans do understand that there's never been a government program in history that has reduced costs. when medicare was introduced in '66, cost $3 billion, estimated to be $9 billion by the 1990s, guess what it was? $107 billion. people understand because they have a lot of evidence to this fact that government programs always cost more and are less efficient. >> look, the bottom line is here, when you talk about costs. you can say that people see these costs piling, i do recall a prescription drug deal at the bush administration said it was going to cost one thing, but in fact they held back the real number and it came out after. the bottom line is here, though, the president has to be clear to explain to the american people how this is going to make it better when it comes to our

deficit. i don't think they've done that right now. >> and paul, just bottom line this for me a little bit. i think americans in many ways right now are confused about what the president actually wants here and what he wants to do. and they're not yet convinced that this has to happen now. you're seeing this growing sort of trust gap in terms of how they're viewing him. how does he deal with that? >> they still like and trust this president an awful lot. i think your point and roland's point, this president has to walk us through it. he sometimes a little -- flying a little bit too high, but i suspect and of course i've been talking to some of his folks, when he comes back from this vacation, he's going to come to the country and campaign for this health care bill the same way he campaigned for the white house. i think what he needs to do is say this, if you like what you have, you can keep it. if we reform the system. if we don't, you will lose what you have. right now health care costs are about $15,000 a year for an average family of four. they used to be $7,000 when the

republicans took over from clinton. if we do nothing, they'll go from $15,000 to $36,000. so you'll lose everything you have and insurance companies will have the right to dump you for the crime of getting sick or being a woman or getting older. >> the objection is not to -- it's not -- the republicans are not proposing status quo. the republicans have been suggesting and the democrats have been stopping for years real reform. what they did get through and i need to correct my friend roland, the prescription drug program actually in the implementation was 40% lower than the projected cost, why? because we had competition in there. this president, these democrats that are pushing this around on the hill don't want private sector competition, they want to have a wholly owned government run, dare i use the s-word socialistic system, and he's fighting his own democrats, he's not fighting republicans now, it's his own democrats that are thwarting reform. >> all right, mary, before we go, though. i want to ask you about this vacation more generally.

he's been getting some criticism about being on the golf course when -- >> which is a great thing, i'm sorry, go ahead, i'm sorry. >> president bush got the same criticism whenever he went to waco, texas, you advised -- what do you tell a president to do in this situation? >> he's doing fine. we should all just shut up about this. americans would think he was -- something was wrong with him if he didn't want to spend quality time with those beautiful little girls and his gorgeous wife. and all of us who have worked in the white house, paul will tell you you're up at 4:00 in the morning, constant connectivity, the job never stops, the work never stops, get off it, let the guy hang out with his white wine sipping elite friends up there. >> have you seen his golf swing? he needs to practice, campbell. >> roland, mary, paul, appreciate it. a hero's welcome home today for a teenage athlete at the center of an international fire storm. the heart of the controversy

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new controversy tonight over a record-setting runner and

questions about whether she is, in fact, a woman. new test results are only adding to the mystery. samples provided before last week's big win in the 800-meter race showed she had three times the normal amount of testosterone in her system. >> reporter: she arrived home a heroine, the new darling of south african sports, but semenya's home coming was no ordinary celebration. they expressed their outrage over the way the 18-year-old has been treated. her remarkable victory at the athletics world championship sparked a global debate when suspicions arose about her gender. her muscular body and powerful running style crushed the rest of the finalists and prompted officials to order gender verification tests. >> we want to say it's unacceptable to question a

woman's sex. >> reporter: dressed in her team's track suit, she was then paraded on the stage, but looked uncomfortable as protestors rallied support. >> she is a female. she won and therefore we are going to support her. >> reporter: the message from south africa is clear, it's not just questions have been raised over semenya's gender, but they were made so public. >> and with me now from los angeles, dr. jennifer berman a urologist who specializes in sexual health, and sports editor for the nation joining us, as well, and also the author of people's history of sports in the united states and jennifer, let me start with you. you saw this massive crowd of support for her, the outrage in south africa over the gender test. but at the same time, we're hearing these reports that tests showed semenya had three times

the amount of testosterone expected in a woman. is that is, in fact, true, what does that tell you? >> well, two things, really. we as american people are jaded by prior athletes abusing performance-enhancing drugs and abusing the system to achieve better. so we're armed and loaded and ready to fire, which is in part what's happening. the other part what's happening, honestly, is that you're asking me to perform surgery without a scalpel. an isolated elevated testosterone level in and of itself without the gender testing, without the other hormone levels, without the exam and confirming she has an internal female reproductive tract means that many, many, many number of things. you asked me to take off my stethoscope and tell you my gut, there's something -- there's something not right about it. because no -- if she did have some medical condition barring a chromosomal abnormality, they

don't perform as superwomen, they have other medical problems, other manifestations of disease. it's not fitting together. >> so just to be clear about this, and you can explain it certainly in a way, hopefully, i think most of us can try to understand is would she have an advantage if she had that level of testosterone, would that give her an advantage over other female runners? it sounds to me like you're saying not necessarily. >> no, no, no, i'm saying she definite had the elevated levels, whether she was ingesting testosterone or consuming illegal drugs or some medical condition, we don't know yet. and in and of itself alone, it isn't enough information. but if she's consuming testosterone, i don't believe there is a medical condition that could turn her into a superfemale unless she's a h

hermaphrodite. >> is this an issue of whether she's male or female? sounds like it's more of an issue of whether she's using performance-enhancing drugs or not. >> i think it's both. and i think we're premature microdissecting her and it is wrong putting her in the public eye. we need to go behind closed doors in the privacy of the medical community, solve this, then come out with it and not, you know, debate, or i can't hypothesize. this isn't a research, this is a human being. >> and sadly it's not going to happen behind closed doors. you saw what happened today, and dave, i know you say this whole idea of gender testing is outrageous. explain. >> outrageous and idiotic. first of all, if i can say no bias no bull, the term hermaphrodite is outdated, it's intersex. this is what happens

historically if a woman excels in sports, go back, they're always referred to by their detractors as being mannish or off if they don't fit some sort of gender ideal, it's the mine field that athletes have to cross with sexism on one side and homophobia on the other. when she does this amazing job in the 800 meters, the conclusion has to be she somehow is not a woman and it speaks far more of how track and field views gender, which is in this binary way of you're male or female than anything that has to do with semenya. >> i'll let you respond to that quickly. >> you know, everything that he says is true, except for the fact that she happens to be 8 feet tall, talks with a coarse male voice, has masculine features. >> 8 feet tall? >> she's much taller than i am and to say that, you know, it's just because there's gender bias, there's other, you know.

it's not that we're just being unfair, there are other issues at hand that are normal questions that a non-biassed external viewer might raise. it's not inhumane or normal to have -- >> it's inhumane, though, to take an 18-year-old and subject her to the kind of scrutiny she's been subjected to. she speaks about being traumatized. you read the quotes from her parents and they're absolutely heart breaking about what they see being done to her daughter. >> i think we all agree on that point. many thanks to jennifer berman and to dave joining us, as well. appreciate it, guys. >> thank you. when we come back, let's say that you are a compulsive eater, obsessed with food to an unhealthy degree. what's the last job you'd sign up for? food critic, right? well, my next guest did that and lives to tell this extraordinary tale when we come back.

how does a compulsive eater become the most powerful writer in the restaurant business? that's the incredible story of our newsmaker tonight. outgoing "new york times" food critic frank bruney, an author of a fascinating new memoir "born round" the secret history of a full-time eater. full disclosure here, he is also a good friend. i spoke with him earlier. >> so this isn't something we normally hear guys talk about. you weren't just a yo-yo dieter, you were a compulsive eater, even bulimic at one point. >> some of the nights on the campaign trail when i would leave a little earlier than everybody else, i'd be at the mini bar going through the whole thing. >> full disclosure to our viewers, you and i go way back. >> when you met me i looked a little different, didn't i? >> we were covering the 2000 presidential campaign together

and you were a lot bigger. >> i got up to about 75 pounds heavier than this, and i was wearing 42 pants, i was a big boy. >> so you changed your eating habits of all places. when you were based in rome, when you were the bureau chief of the "new york times" in rome and most people think rome is a fabulous place to eat. how did you do it? >> well, it is a fabulous place to eat but i was lucky to be there when i was there, i'd lost a bunch of weight and italians exalt quality not quantity. they don't have a big gulp at the seven eleven, they don't have all you can' buffets, they don't do that american thing of associating a great meal with an abundant meal. it has great food in it, eat in moderate portions. >> you really did adapt to the style there? >> it was an example and inspiration, showed me what to do. >> so you're there and finally learning to control your eating habits and then you get this phone call and you get offered the all time greatest food job

ever, you're going to be the restaurant critic for the "new york times," what went through your brain? >> well, the first thing was the word irony. come across many like that. and then i had to do some hard thinking about whether after decades of having such a turbulent relationship with eating and food i had finally figured it out. and i thought i had and i took a gamble. >> so, you know, explain this to us. because as a recovering compulsive eater, you have this job now where you have to -- i've been out to dinner with you a time or two. so i know you have to order essentially everything on the menu. how do you manage it? how do you balance it? >> i have to order everything on the menu, but i only have to taste it. so i'm not falling back into that old pattern of just kind of shoving as much food as possible down my throat, but also i used to always make the mistake of going on big binges because i was going to diet tomorrow, fast next week, now i know i have to eat a certain amount every day

and so i never let it get out of control because i can't lie to myself about the fad diet on the far side of it. there are no fad diets in my life anymore. >> so many people find that job, the food critic a fascinating one. you've described it as part of -- how did -- part journalist, part cia operative. and you did go to restaurants at times in disguise. tell us what it was like trying to maintain anonymity when they are trying to expose you, the restaurants. they want to know when you were in there. >> well, you can't really control too much of them spotting you because they make great efforts of taking pictures, but you make up a million different phone numbers when you call so there's no tracks they can trace back. you use a different alias every night. the hard part is you arrive at a host station some nights and forgotten what your fake name is and you stand there dumbly and say i'm the party at 9:30 and they kind of know then, something's up, most people remember the name they made the

reservation in. >> what are the red flags, your pet peeves when you go into a restaurant? what do you love and you know this is going to be a great meal and what do you hate? >> it really starts at the door. i don't think i've ever eaten in a great restaurant where i've been ignored at the door. everyone says in life first impressions are the most important. it's the same thing in restaurants. if the greeting and the attentiveness at that host station, if those aren't what they should the rest of the night's not going to go that well either. >> what are the most annoying to you, restaurant affectations. what do you think they need to stop doing? >> i do not understand why servers use some of the stilted language they do. why they say are you done enjoying that? are you still working on that? these words don't quite work. pardon my reach. just say excuse me. >> let's go back to the book for a minute. there is a lot in here that is incredibly honest. very intimate, embarrassing at times. you go into detail.

did you ever think i should be holding back a little bit? >> you know, i thought for a nanosecond or two, but when you and i interview other people, do stories on subjects, we demand as much candor and tell them to give us as much detail because we know that makes the best stories. i wanted to give readers the best story i could. >> and so you were willing to put it all out there? >> you put them all out there, you have none left to be afraid of. >> the book is called "born round." when we come back, tonight's newsmaker, a teacher who tackled an armed student allegedly about to blow up his school. a day on the days that you have arthritis pain, you could end up taking 4 times the number... of pills compared to aleve. choose aleve and you could start taking fewer pills. just 2 aleve have the strength... to relieve arthritis pain all day.

tonight's newsmaker, the teacher who stopped a high school massacre in california. he tackled a former student who set off two pipe bombs. police say the teen had eight more plus a chain saw and a sword. >> he's running towards people instead of towards safety. so that kind of made me a little bit -- kind of worried about what this kid was doing, so i decided to close the distance and put him in a bear hug and then i decided to kind of flip him and put him on the ground