arrived about 10:00 and her body was found about noon. >> a small memorial now deck raiding the front door of a church, a research that until now rarely had visitors. >> we're definitely not going to let that story go, we'll keep pushing on it and bring you any new details. rick sanchez starts here. it's the next generation of news, it's a conversation, and it's often that we see it's your turn to get involved. all right, this is the story that we have been keying on, eight people dead and now more than ever, guess what it's starting to look like a killer or killers are still at large. how would you feel if this is your community what that i was talking about right now? here's what i need to tell you about these grizzly killings that have been taking place in brunswick, georgia. today a judge set a $2,000 bail for that man. this is the first time we have seen him in court. this is guy heinz jr., he found

the victims of this multiple murder in the place where it happen. does this bail signal that he's not really a serious suspect? and if there are other people involved, who are they? where are they? here's what's crazy about this case, police, they're hardly saying anything. they're all but keeping their kmaunt and the media in the dark. our own reporter today, you're going to hear from him in just a minute. here's what residents in the community are saying, legitimately about their concerns. >> we're out here living our everyday lives with a has murder on the loose. we live here, we're not secure, we don't have troops or guards to guard us. we have to walk the streets and live here and, i mean, whoever did it is still out there. >> our law enforcement analyst

mike brooks is here. and joining me on the phone is cnn's shaun calebs who's there on the scene. shaun, i was about to tell viewers that you and i have been on the phone all day talking about this case and i was going to tell our viewers what you told me. you basically went to the police department three times and they denied you any information or any interviews. this is bizarre and people should be upset with this police department for keeping them in the dark, they should know. >> i think there certainly is the desire down here that people want to know something, how much should we be concerned, what are you looking at? are there possible motives out there that nobody is talking about right now? you heard about that one young girl, she's actually a friend of guy heinz jr. who was in court today talking about him and any possibility that he could be tied to this. heinz' attorney says he's not

involved. but we're hearing nothing from authorities. even if it's nothing, even if they're saying we're doing the best we can, we have no new information, anything to alay the concerns of these people here. >> yesterday when we left our viewers, during this hour, it was starting to look like because he had information that he had hidden a shotgun in the trunk of his car from the scene and because we were hear in uncertain terms that police were not ruling out that he was a suspect. that this guy may have been responsible. but today, you've been talking to his attorney, you have been getting new information. we're not talking about $1,000 bail. it's starting to look like it's not him, right? >> i think you can make a strong argument, which, you just did.

they suspect somebody of a brutal mass murder, eight people brutally murdered in a mobile home. they're going to let that person walk for 20,000. the attorney plans on attending the memorial this saturday as well, which will be held for seven of the victims and plain and simple, ron, the attorney said in no way is my client associated with these murders. >> i'm watching him walking into the courtroom. sean, can you tell us what we have been learning about this guy because very different from the scenario we had yesterday. >> very different from the day he came in and called 911.

he's not hands cuffed, he's not in shackles, what does that say to me? they don't think that he is the main suspect. you know, i say, you know, glen county, i used to live down there, i was at the federal law enforcement training center right across the causeway from buns wick. i think if the attorneys down there and the chief and the judge thought that he was a suspect or was involved in that, i don't think they would have been letting him out on $20,000 bail. i really don't. >> and you're talking to sources, right, as well? we have got sean working the story down there, he's frustrated. and why the hell aren't they saying anything? because i'm starting to get a little frustrated be this chief dooring down there. >> matt's been down there, he's a lifelong resident of the area. i think he could be doing a little bit better. but if he doesn't have anything to say, just come out and say, we don't have anything new.

as an investigator, i'm not going to be giving away anything, talking about the evidence. but they're not saying anything, rick, and meanwhile, today more than ever. >> i can tell you, you need to keep the public informed. and we heard that from that young lady, and we're hearing the same thing from sean. >> ease their fears in some way if you possibly can. is there a killer out there? >> let me ask you a question, we have learned that these guys, many of the victims were not people who had regular jobs, russell toler sr. he rented the possibly home, took in a lot of relatives. there's a christi toler, russell toler's daughter and her boyfriend, joseph west, have they got any criminal records? >> christi toler has some armed robbery, some other minor things. joseph west, he's got cocaine possession and some other minor thing. >> i'm glad you said that, did

they tell you that this may be something having to do with drugs? >> the first time i heard about this, in that area, in that mobile home park, i know where it is. the first thing i would think about with that many people killed and only a 3-year-old surviving is some type of retaliatory killing. the next question is are these people involved in think drugs? as an investigator, my gut feeling is the first thing i would think of. what are you going to do? the first person who finds these people, you're going to focus on him right from jump street, and that is guy heinz. >> but it's not looking like that. >> but he has an electronic monitoring device. there's not many places down there to go. >> sean, let's button up this thing. we still have to put our heads around the fact that eight people are dead and the ninth that's in critical condition, i

understand that's a small child that we're talking about. i didn't know that until today because the numbers here are just so amazing and so horrifying. what can you tell us about this child? what have we learn. >> a 3-year-old child, the 3-year-old of the 22-year-old female victim, this toddler is in serious condition in a local hospital. and one other thing, one of the -- the 17-year-old young man who was killed had downs syndrome. so whoever did this was a particularly vicious killer. but i do want to add one thing before i jump, guys. we're talking about looking at people's past and all those logical steps. i was up in idaho, those people who were murdered up there, they all had drugs in their past, and everybody thought that was going to be is lead. but it turned out to be some

pedophile that was stalking them, and it came out of left field. so you -- >> it's not like it's a robbery. it doesn't seem like these people had much. but right now, what is the motive? there is a lot of different activity that goes on down in that area, drug and otherwise. so who knows? could it have been just a random act of violence. >> absolutely. >> and maybe law enforcement, the reason they're not saying anything, maybe they don't know anything, but i find -- >> and this area -- >> i don't think so. i just don't get that -- we'll have to leave it at that because we're out of time. but my sense is there's something going on ochbd they don't want to reveal it. >> as a former cop, i can tell you, we don't know right now. >> thanks to you, thanks to sean, gentlemen, we'll see you again. i got a story that happened just a couple of days ago but

i'm not hearing about it as i was coming to work today. i felt compelled to share it with you. this is a story about a child that's crying in a store. a man tells the mother, shut that baby up, or i'm going to shut it for you. talking about a 2-year-old. that's insulting enough. you want to know what's even more insulting? what he did next, that we will detail for you next in two minutes. u bedrinking tonight? if you ride drunk, you will get caught... and you will get arrested. ed assistance getting around their homes. there is a medicare benefit that may qualify you for a new power chair or scooter at little or no cost to you.

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this man told a woman to shut up her crying 2-year-old at a walmart or he would do it for her. here's the news. police say he did it. he slapped the woman's child.

he is the governor of texas. a frenzied talk of recession for political gain. what gives with rick perry? >> i have to say i'm pretty depressed about it. when you're so poor you've got nothing left to sell, what do you do? you sell your kidney. this is a cnn exclusive report that will shock you. we'll tell you who's busted. we know him as the man who found his family dead and called police. >> my whole family's dead! >> but why was he hiding a shotgun from police? your national conversation on what continues to be a fiery california on wednesday. september 2, 2009 starts right now.

welcome back, i'm rick sanchez here in the world headquarters of cnn. 13 minutes after the hour. what would you do, seriously, what would you do to get a kid to stop crying? you've been in this situation, we all have, sometimes it's been our own kids. i'll bet it's not what this man did. let me set the scene for you, it's a walmart store in metro atlanta, a mom and her cranky 2-year-old. robert stevens appears and he's angry about the screaming baby, and tells the mom, if you don't shut that baby up, i'll do it for you. the man took it upon himself to grab the woman's toddler and whack, whack, whack, whack, kwhaked the 2-year-old across the face four times.

then he turned to the mom and he said to her, see, i told you, i would shut her up. another shopper finally interrupted stevens and held him until store security and plioli could arrive. he appeared in court to face felony charges of cruelty to a child. that's the walmart where it happened. i want you to shoot me a tweet. i want you to watch an investigative report from drew griffin on people who may be desperate enough to sell a body part. that's next. having the right tools is crucial to being able to manage your diabetes properly. it's very important for me to uh check my blood sugar before i go on stage. being on when i'm feeling low can be like a rollercoaster. it does at times feel like my body is telling me to do one thing... and, my mind, my heart is telling me to do something else. managing my highs and lows is super important.

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i had a feeling that when we did this story, there's going to be a lot of reaction from you on twitter and elsewhere. let's go ahead and do that. let's go to the twitter board if we can. look at the first one, it says i cannot believe he slapped the kid. talking got that 2-year-old in that previous story. what it with people nowadays? look at what skip says, you slap

my 2-year-old, and i guarantee you will lose your teeth. god to love skip on that one. here's a story i have been wanting to bring you throughout the day because when i watch this i was moved by it. it's hard to imagine somebody being so desperate for money that they would be willing to sell a body part. consider this, there may be people out there as well who are cutting deals and profiting from this ghoulish enterprise. that is what drew griffin, cnn's special investigations unit has been looking into. he has for us now this exclusive report. >> reporter: the fib arrested this brooklyn businessman, they had no idea what they say they uncovered would be so big. law enforcement source who is will still investigating tells

cnn that he was using hospitals in new york, boston and philadelphia. what he was doing was selling kidneys. >> his business was to entice vulnerable people to give up a kidney for 10,000. > >> reporter: investigators say the donors and patients had one thing in common, they were all jewish. zone f donors usually came from eastern europe, usually poor, selling their kid aniy s kidneys for $5. rosenbaum's attorney said he has not had enough time to evaluate rosenba rosenbaum's case and had no accident. those who study the illegal trade of organs, allegations of widespread trafficking of kid y kidneys on the east coast should surprise no one. in the recent passes, according

to researchers dr. nancy shepard hughes -- >> it has been run by british mafia and they have been using bulgariian immigrants to pay for it. >> reporter: nick rosen says selling a kidney in the united states was as easy as answering that ad. nick rosen is an israeli citizen, he bears the scars of an operation where he says neither doctors nor the hospital asked too many questions. >> you think they knew? you think the surgeon who did the surgery knew? >> i think they may have had a feeling or a hint. but i can't say i know for sure. >> reporter: a few weeks after answering the ad, with a promised payoff of $20,000, rosen said he was flown from tel aviv to new york, hustled into new york's mt. sinai hospital, where he and the patient he had

never met before told hospital staff they were cousins. >> they didn't ask for family records? >> no. >> reporter: so basically you just declared yourselves cousins? >> uh-huh, yeah. >> reporter: dr. murphy is in charge of the hospital's -- >> we're not detectives, we're not the fbi and we don't have meths that they have at our disposal and people tend on occasion deceive us. >> nancy shepard hughes has been tracking illegal organ sales for 15 years. she says for the hospitals, it pays to look the other way. >> i ask not only what about the surgeons, what about the transplant coordinators, the nurse coordinators, the hospital chapla chaplain, the bioethicist who'

supposed to screen people. >> a man who's recovering in los angeles's cedars sinai hospital who had just sold his kidney for $25,000. >> reporter: this took place --? >> last night. a kid who was ter tied and shaking. but $25,000 you have to admit is a good amount of cash. >> reporter: a source with knowledge of the deal confirmed to cnn the surgery did indeed take place, the hospital wouldn't comment on specifics due to privacy concerns but said that if at any time during the evaluation process the transplant team suspects the donor is being inappropriately paid for a kidney, the transplant is canceled. but to shepard hughes, that's not happening enough. the world health organization estimates one out of every

kidney transplants in the world is illicit. >> i think there is no stopping it and i have to say i'm pretty depressed about it right now. >> reporter: depressed because it's a business that's only getting bigger as more of the world's desperately poor are willing to sell off a piece of themselves. >> that's a good piece of investigative journalism and drew's here with us now. i have chased stories before going to places like latin america and found that most of the time they're bogus, they're just rumors. this is no rumor, this is going on? >> this is no rumor, it is going on and in the course of our investigation, i have talked to brokers, i have seen the scars. >> i want to bring you back right after the break and you and i are going to continue this conversation because i want to know more and i think a lot of our viewers do also. we'll be right back. wellbeing.

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call now to get the $99 installation, plus a second keypad installed free. and, you could save up to 20% on your homeowner's insurance. call now-- and get the system installed for just $99. broadview security for your home or business - the next generation of brink's home security. call now. this is amazing, drew is joining us once again to talk about this. the sick feeling i was getting as i watched this story was what people will do for money, which is about anything. >> right. and that is the reason that so many people are against this kind of open market for kidneys because you have to be pretty desperate to sell a body part and what you're finding in many cases is people selling them as low as $5,000, as low as $2,700.

>> it's almost like you're bringing money to somebody who's so desperate to have money, there's something inherently wrong about that. >> it's wrong on both sides. this side is sick and with money. and this side is healthy with no money. and we're talking to a broker. he says, look, it's sad, but this is the cold fact, this is how it is. i hate to tell you, but this is how this world operates. >> when you say a broker, this is the person who puts the deal together. >> this is a man who actually made a living taking patients and finding kidneys and putting them toblgether in hospitals al around the world and arranging a transplant. >> and this is illegal? >> it's illegal in this country, it has been illegal in other countries. these people know the law, so they bounce around to other

countries, china, it was legal then not legal. the philippines, legal then not legal. they're traveling to different countries for different laws. should we finally just bite the bullet and say to cuba and the castro brothers, we're willing to lift the embargo? enough is enough. or is it? it's a question, former u.n. ambassador bill richardson has just returned from cuba and he's going to be fog to me live about what he's finding out and how close we are to making that happen. also remember the after show, we'll do it here at 4:00. i'll look forward to seeing you on cnn.com/live. my doctor said the bayer aspirin saved my life. please talk to your doctor about aspirin and your heart. i'm going to be grandma for a long time. our kids are ours again. so it's a good thing walmart guarantees

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there's breaking news coming in to us right now, the president of the united states has just announced a joint session of congress. a joint session of congress to be held september 9. september 9, as you know is next wednesday when they do return.

one would certainly think that the president is going to be addressing the issue of health care, although that's not been officially termed as the reason for this joint session of congress. the president has been criticized for not talk -- the obama administration has also been reaching out to cuba recently, restarting talks on legal migration between the two countries and getting ready to negotiate direct mail service. it doesn't sound like much, but when you're talking about a country that has been our enemy, going on 50 years, no check that, going on 60 years, it's news. new mexico governor bill richardson has just returned from cubcuba, he joins me from santa fe, new mexico. governor thanks for being with us. before we get into cubcuba, let

just ask you because we have this breaking news, we're not sure if the president's going to be talking about health care during this joint session of congress next wednesday, it would be a good bet, isn't it? >> it's a very good move by the white house. the president is the best weapon in the administration arsenal to convince the american people that we need health care reform. and i believe right now, what has been discussed the house bill, senate bills, all these negotiations, but i think what the public needs to hear is the president's vision for health care reform. so i think this is a very smart move. he's the best weapon the administration has. and right now, what is needed is movement in the house and senate towards a health care bill, get something on the table for voting. >> i think you're right, i think he needs to own this thing, i think he needs to say,

up-or-down vote, but it's going to be my idea, my vote, my legacy, my presidency. he can't be sitting down waiting for harry reid and nancy pelosi to make this thing happen for him. he doesn't get helped by that either way because he's getting killed by republicans. >> i think he has an opportunity to speak to the country, to unify the country, to put pressure on the congress, i think the president's vision on health care reform is a good one. but the more he personalizes it, the more he talks directly to the american people, how it affects them, and he is such a very good communicators, that this makes a lot of sense. >> let me ask you about cuba, you just returned from our trip there, you know what my relatives and friends in miami who are still hard liners are going to be saying about you, you know, they're going to be saying that you've betrayed them, that you shouldn't talk to these guys, that you shouldn't go to cuba and all you're doing is helping fidel, and to that

you say what, governor? >> i can't speak for your relatives and i know you know this issue real well, but i can tell you there's a lot of cuban americans i have spoken to in florida, in new jersey, that recognize that whatever has happened in terms of the trade embargo, it really hasn't worked, so we need a new policy. now my position is, you know don't unilaterally take the trade embargo off the table. you negotiate, you want to get the cuban government to do more on human rights, on political prisoners, but what we should start doing, which helps many cuban americans is humanitarian issues, some of these postal negotiations, travel ban, more americans should be able to travel to cuba. academics, artists, business leaders, you know, i think it's important on the same side that the cuban government, they were a little intran sigent when the

said allow cuban americans to come to the united states with fewer restrictions. you know that cuban americans somewhere driven this policy in democratic administrations and i believe there should be a dialogue, no preconditions, but not substituting for negotiations where the cubans here, the cuban american point of view from republicans and democrats on many of these issues, and all i'm proposing is a dialogue that should happen and i don't believe our cuba policy should change unless we consult with cuban americans in america. >> you're absolutely right, governor, but it's interesting because that word is dialago, usually it's a sign that someone is a lefty or is willing to sit down with fidel castro and that word in and of itself, which you said is a dialogue, talking to people, it doesn't mean we're going to lift the embargo, it means we should talk about ways to figure things out, that

scares people. ricardo alacon, you met with him, right? >> i met with him twice. >> this is a guy who's like the elder in cuba. both raul and fidel, i'm always interested in what he's saying. what does he want and what does he expect of the obama administration? >> he said what you just said, rick. delagio, i believe he's probably the most powerful man in cuba, second to the castro brothers and i believe he's known american policy and presidents, i think we can work with a guy like that. he was very interested in some of the humanitarian talks that are going on that are very important because they involve people, rick, they involve families reuniting, they involve remittances. >> i have a cousin in cuba,

governor, who -- i have a cousin in cuba who i love, who i where to. he and i have e-mailed each other from time to time, i know he's got kids like i've got kids and we have spent our whole lives not knowing each because he lives over there and i live over here, we're the same exact age, we have children almost the same age, it saddens me i have not gotten to know my cousin because of a political situation. i'll tell you that flat out. >> if president obama has lifted some of those travel restrictions so that your cousin can come to see you. what needs to happen in the obama administration is they have to put out the regulations, implement those policies and i think that's going to happen soon. and the fact that obama has done that has created a good atmosphere in cuba, at least on the cuban side that maybe this administration is different.

maybe they are interested in reaching out to us, but, look, dialago doesn't just mean talking, it means negotiations. the cubans are going to have to loosen up some of their hard line positions. >> and we have to loosen up some of our positions as well. and i think it's happening, governor, it's not so much about obama, it's not so much about this president, it's this environment, it's not as monolithic as it used to be, and there are more people who are willing to talk, i believe. do you find that? >> yeah. and rick, i would propose somebody like you, cuban american republicans and democrats, to, like, talk to the cubans about mainly, possibly focusing on the humanitarian issues, on the visa restrictions that exist, on allowing families like your cousin to be able to come home freely back and forth

to have remittances. that hasn't quite happened yet. but the cuban side has to give something too. it's not just the u.s. and i think president has made the first move in loosening these travel restrictions, i just hope they can get them going to regulation so that it can actually happen. and then in effect your cousin could come see you. >> maybe we could start by having the cubans get rid of the political prisoner they are holding which is absolutely wrong. governor it is always a pleasure. mothers threatened to wash their kids mouths out and i have seen, but now a judge has gone one step further, he has taped a defendant's mouth shut in court and we have got the video of this as it happens. also eight people dead, in a mobile home in georgia. and still very few answers. i'm going to take you through

the very lathes on this case. including what happened to the man who made the 911 call, whether there's a killer or killers still on the loose. this is a story we have been drilling on down and we're not going to stop, we'll be right back. welcome to progressive. how may i help you? i'm looking for a deal on car insurance. i think i might have a coupon in here. there's an easier way. we've got the "name your price" option. you do? follow me. you tell us how much you want to pay, and we'll build you a policy that fits your budgede

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i always tell my staff that i can always tell when somebody dunlts have kids when they're so quick to criticize other parents. like this tweet that i'm reading right now that we were just looking over the break. deborah hopkins saying, about that story i told you about in walmart where the man went up to

another person's child and slapped them four times because they were misbehaving. she blames the mom, she says the mothers never discipline their kids when they act up in stores, let this be a lesson to you, mother outs there, discipline. i could say something, but i would probably get in trouble, because i have seen what it'slike to raise four kids. and sometimes kids will be kids. people in brunswick, georgia today expressing new fear about a possible mass killer or killers on the loose. this as we get new information about more of the eight victims. look at this. all those people murdered. tough to look at when you think of just the numbers alone. while today a judge set bail for this man, this is guy heinz jr., he's the son of one of the victims, by the way. he reported the deaths to 911 and shortly after that he was convicted on charges of lying to police.

if anybody thought he was a mass killing suspect, hiss bail today seems to conflict with that. his bail was only set at $20,000. does that sound to you like the bail of a suspected mass killer? and as you heard sean calebs tell us earlier in the show, that -- i also want to tell you one more thing about this story, there's more frustration aimed at police for not even telling the public what's been going on, they are frustrated, the residents are who live in that request community. most of us would be too. listen to this woman. >> we're out here living our everyday lives without -- with a mass murder on the loose. we live here, we're not secure, we don't have troops or guards to guard us. we have to walk the streets and live here and, i mean, whoever did is still out there. >> again, this is the top story that we have been following for you. i also want to tell you about something i had gotten just a little while ago from cnn's sean

calebs. he got a call from the police after we did a live report. the police tell sean they have no new information. wow. you like your health coverage, but worry what happens... if you get sick, or change jobs. eight ways reform matters to you. a cap on deductibles and out-of-pocket costs. no annual or lifetime limits on coverage. preventive care. covered. pre-existing conditions. covered. no higher rates due to genlér.

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call now - and get the system installed for just $99. broadview security for yot- home or business - the next generation of brink's home security. call now. my wife and i have a standing joke about my father-in-law, carl basher, you see papa is from the south, and in the south, everything was fixed with duct tape. let's do focus. this judge in canton, ohio must know my father-in-law very

well. because when a defendant kept interrupting him and he wouldn't shut up, guess what he did? he used duct tape, yep, he had the guards use duct tape to shut the guy up and you know what? just like my living room table that my father-in-law fixed, it's still standing, the defendant shut up. eureka. meanwhile in madison, wisconsin at an intersection near the state capitol, a lawmaker made a horrible mistake, she didn't pay attention when the light changed from green to red, you know, red as in stop, and that happened. the stoet representative was just not paying attention. the biker does not have life-threatening injuries. the lawmaker says his heart goes out to the injured biker and he's in my thoughts and prayers. my line producer says that we should all know that we should never walk into a restaurant around closing time

because you will be hated by the employees for doing it. they may even hate you enough to do this. yep. captured on cell phone video. the employees are seen taking the food out of the garbage to fill this order. why? because they had already cleaned the grills and put away most of the items. and they had also thrown away the leftovers. wait, did i say leftovers? i mean the next order, they're getting out of the garbage can. yummy. all right, what's going on in texas politics? what's the deal with all this talk of recession? this is rick perry versus day bailey hutchison, texas style. we got rowan martin here also from texas to referee. r & r is coming up. ? if you ride drunk, you will get caught... and you will get arrested.

what's in it for me? i'm not looking for a bailout, just a good paying job. that's why i like this clean energy idea. now that works for our whole family. for the kids, a better environment. for my wife, who commutes, no more gettin' jerked around on gas prices... and for me, well, it wouldn't be so bad if this breadwinner brought home a little more bread. repower america. i hope our senators are listening.

all right. welcome back. we've been telling you about this breaking news, and that is that the president of the united states has decided to address a joint session of congress. he will do so on september 9th. that is next wednesday. what will he be addressing? well, i figured it out. you probably figured it out pretty well yourself. he's finally going to try to get a handle on this health care reform legislation that seems to be going in many directions right now. heavily being criticized, and w450i8 we're at it not exactly helping his approval numbers. so, again, the president may be an attempt to try to own this thing, will try next wednesday, september 9th, to address a joint session of congress just as they are returning from recess to address health care reform. we are going to be all over it and expect that wolf blitzer will be over it as well in "the situation room" which is coming up in only eight minutes. meanwhile, this next

segment, one of my favorites. every week. i'm rick, he's rowan, "r & r" is next. what's going on in texas, man? don't answer that. because we're going to do it after the break. >> why did you ask the question for? >> because i wanted to tease the audience. we'll be right back. it doesn't cover everything. and what it doesn't cover can cost you some money. that's why you should consider... an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan... insured by united healthcare insurance company. it can help cover some zd what medicare doesn't...

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man, we've got a ton of reaction from you on that guy at walmart who decided to slap down somebody else's kid. we'll talk about that in just a little bit and share many of your responses. i know you're dying to hear them. remember all the talk though about texas seceding from the union? america, what may be going on here? take a look at this rally. this is last saturday at austin, and i want you to hear what some of the speakers are saying. i mean, they sound serious. listen in with me. >> stepping off into secession may in fact be a bloody war. we are aware. we understand that the tree of freedom is occasionally watered

with the blood of tyrants and patriots. >> boy, suddenly thomas jefferson is a very popular quote these days. all right. we tend to dismiss such talk as coming from the political fringe, but keep in mind this is important, the state's own governor rick parry was accused of stirring stuff like this up when he addressed a tea party. this was back in april. in fact, we got it. remember this? >> it gives me the thrill up my leg when i see all the people standing out here on the city hall of austin, texas, with liberty in their hearts and independence on their mind. i'm talking about state's rights. state's rights. state's rights! >> a thrill in his leg and state's rights of the all right. time for "r & r." rick and roland. roland martin is our cnn political analyst, and he's

donning a very nice debonair head apparel on this day. >> you wanted to talk about texas. i said bring it on, rick. >> all right. look, with that hat or without that hat i want to know what you have to say because i know you know texas politics. >> i'll take it off for you, rick. here's the deal, rick. >> let me -- listen to this question. is the governor partly responsible for some of this crazy talk? >> okay. first of all, you're going to have this conversation regardless of whether the governor made the comment or not, but here's what you have. you have a governor who is now embroiled in a very difficult race. he's facing senator kay bailey hutchison. he's going to portray her as being this liberal who democrats are going to love in the statehouse. he is trying to appeal to these hard core conservatives because he knows if he can knock her out in the primary, the bottom line is no democrat holds any statewide office in texas. he is a very good shot at winning another four-year term. he's already the longest serving governor in texas history and

that's what this is all about but it's still just stupid talk, just ridiculous. >> at what cost? i can understand if somebody told me, you know, if you say this, you might be able to get those people over there, those 80,000 people to support you, but i look in the mirror, and i say i can't say that. that's not right to say that. i love my country. i'm not going to talk about leaving the united states of america which i've pledged allegiance to. >> well, first of all, it is ridiculous conversation. look, those of us from texas, we know texas used to be its own country, had its own president and so he is technically right, that is, allowing texas into the union. there's a provision that texas could always leave. it's just ridiculous, okay. he was playing to the audience, playing to the crowd. he sounded ridiculous making the comment, but what he's trying to do, like many of these other folks around the country, they are trying to tap into this anger, this resentment and this outrage that we see all across the country. we see it in town hall meetings,

but it is ridiculous for him as a governor, and frankly for me -- look, as a fellow texas aggie, it's embarrassing to hear him talk like this. he's the governor of the state. you don't want the governor talking this way. you have to be very careful when you start talking about state's rights, as an african-american, state's rights has a lot different meaning. start thinking about ross barton in mississippi, when it came to segregation and when it came to "brown versus board of education" so he has to be very careful using that kind of language by saying state's rights. >> it has racist overtones, i'll say it for you. how about kay bailey hutchison, by the way? we're down to 30 seconds, and i know you and i will continue in a little bit. if he's going for that vote you describe, what's she going to get? what's she going for? >> again, what she's trying to do is go after the independents. look, texas, you have 500,000 people who have been moving to texas every year for the last three to four to five years so the demographics are changing. she is trying to go after the people who recognize that