perhaps you've got questions for them. stay with cnn throughout the day for the latest breaking news as well. i'm fredricka whitfield. have a great day. bouncing back from the brink. the u.s. economy struggling to rebuild. but where are the jobs? bank ceos seem to be doing more than okay. wait until you see their paycheck. didn't we just bail these guys out? while you might not see your favorite football team on tv this year. get ready. time to talk "your $$$$$." hello, everyone. welcome to a very busy labor day edition of "your $$$$$." i'm christine romans. ali velshi will join us in just a minute. he's on the cnn express, stopped now in madison, wisconsin on his cross-country tour, listening to americans about your stories about how the economy is affecting your money. for most of us, our personal economy starts with our job. new information about the shrinking american labor market. the jobless rate jumped to 9.7% in august, the highest

unemployment rate in 26 years. but the pace of layoffs is slowing, down from the dark days last winter. in august, 216,000 more jobs shed, the fewest number of job losses in a year. little relief, though, in the hardest hit sectors. more than 120,000 jobs shed from manufacturing and construction, financial services trimming jobs as well. but look here, 28,000 positions were created in health care. that trend continues. managing director of the economic cycle research institute and bill rogers is the former chief economist of the department of labor. first off, ten seconds, each of you, it's bad but getting better? >> absolutely. that means a lot. we were losing 750,000 jobs at the beginning of the year. now we're losing on the order of 250,000 jobs. if that trend continues, you will see jobs growth in the u.s. economy this year outside of the manufacturing sector. that's the recovery. >> still hurts but getting better. >> sure. this was a report that

culminated the week with less bad news. the economy is edging towards a recovery. >> all right. so tell me, what do we do from here now? what is the economy telling us because we have a 9.7% unemployment rate. that really hurts. we have 25 million to 30 million people who are ready, willing and able to be working a full-time job and they aren't. think of how many people that is. that's a population of illinois, new jersey, south carolina, iowa, all wrapped into one. >> it hurts and first, a couple things. rising unemployment rates into recoveries are not unusual. the last two recoveries, we saw that trend. this one will be no different. also remember, it is indeed darkest before dawn. when you're at the bottom of a business cycle at the end of a recession, this is the worst part. this is why it feels the worst. even when the dawn comes, it's still really, really cold but because you know the sun is about to come out, you can handle it and i'm telling you, the forward-looking leading indicators are pointing to

recovery and jobs growth for the nonmanufacturing sector this year. >> you have been telling us all summer the whole thing is ending this summer, this recession is ending this summer. you're on the record with that. i want to talk about job growth, bill. shrinking the unemployment rate down by demographic. walk us through this. you call it the man-cession. 10.1%, adult women. 7.6%, adult women. lower paid jobs predominantly or at least more than half women in those fields. >> that's right. two months ago, the unemployment rate for adult men did hit 10%. last month it fell back down but this month it did jump back up to over 10%. there is a psychological barrier around that 10% rate. when you look at the unemployment rates by race and ethnicity, african-americans, their unemployment rates were stationary over this period but as we have talked about in previous conversations, there is that two to one persistent ratio

that's being maintained there. one thing that is important to look at about the unemployment rate's rise this month is it gets back to your point about this is again, a part of the dynamics and what we did see was that layoffs, it was largely due to layoffs but also to new entrants, people who were out of the labor force in the last few months, high school graduates, college graduates who have been trying to enter. if you look at the other demographic by education, again, it continues, so education really is your best hedge against job loss. the increases within education were amongst high school graduates, high school dropouts and also people with some college. >> wrap it up for us before we go to ali. your last take on the labor market here. >> well, look, you have one-tenth of americans out of work, 10% approaching unemployment rate. if you look for people who are underemployed, it almost goes to one-sixth of americans who are under employed. that is nasty. that is because we have just

lived through the worst recession since the great depression. however, that is not a trend that is going to continue indefinitely. the leading indicators which are the way to forecast what's the future direction -- >> this is what you do for a living. this is what you do for a living. >> i am telling you -- >> one-tenth of the labor force are out of a job. >> one-sixth are underemployed. a broader definition. >> we have to leave it here. thanks. you're both sticking around. ali velshi is on the cnn express, which has pulled over at the university of wisconsin. have you been pulled over yet? i hope not. >> i have not and the bus has not been pulled over. >> you know, one of the reasons the jobless rate -- >> let me tell you something, though. you see the bus behind me, right? that's 13'6". we were in chicago the other day. you know that. and we couldn't get under some of the overpasses, i guess they were built in the 1800s and there wasn't really anything that was 13'6" back then. so we did have the assistance of some law enforcement there in reversing the bus.

our captain of the bus, dale, managed to steer it around. but that was the only interaction we've had with law enforcement on this trip. there has been no sirens and no pulling us over. >> and a hair cut like yours if they kept going under there too closely. >> that's right. >> take it away. >> all right. well, listen, you have been to madison. this is a remarkable, remarkable town with a great university, university of wisconsin madison. i am spending much more time in the midwest than you are, even though this is your native land. but listen, we stopped here, it's a little different from what we've been doing in our town hall meetings. we decided to talk to some students. we have been in farming towns, in industrial towns, in larger centers. we haven't done a college town so we came on to this campus and we talked with some students. i've got with me blare sanford, assistant dean of the mba program here. she also oversees career services. earlier this week we discussed one issue and that is women are going to be forming more than half the labor force within the next few months but there's still this disparity in pay between men and women, often for the same work.

interesting, you're saying that when your mba graduates are placed in jobs, you don't see that disparity. >> we have seen no, no disparity at all. our men and women are going out into the same industries, same functions, receiving the same base salaries, same sign-on bonuses. >> but there are some industries even within the world of business that men gravitate to or where they employ men and others that employ women more primarily and there is a disparity in those industry choices. >> you will see the difference there. we have definitely more men going into the financial fields, heading to wall street, going to the east coast, and you will see higher salaries on that end. more women are going into consumer package goods companies, education, government, positions like that. that's where there is some disparity. so if you looked by industry. >> we were talking to a number of the students earlier and something that came up was the ability to get internships. a lot of competition for internships. you're saying the way companies

recruit your graduates has changed, has evolved over the last few years. tell me a little bit about that. >> strategies and budgets have changed tremendously in the past year or two. and we've seen a high conversion of interns into the full-time placement market right now. it's good for us because we had 99% internship placement this past summer. we have always achieved high placement there. but we are definitely seeing less on campus recruitment for full-time positions. i'm saying that, and we have a number of people who have already booked for spring internship recruitment. >> so would you say that translates into nonbusiness students as well, if you can get job experience, you can get internships in this environment, a good thing to be doing? >> absolutely. you know, employers are treating an internship as a three-month interview. >> right. >> they really are wanting to see the skill set of students, wanting to see their passion for the industry area. we have also benefited from the fact that in our mba program, we have an average of five years work experience. >> right. >> so our mbas are going out not just learning what they're doing but actually adding a lot of

value during the summer. >> we're going to come back and talk to some of the mba students. we will also talk about how a curriculum at a business school has changed, given the worst economic downturn since the great depression. christine? >> we'll talk to you again very soon. next, are you an optimist or pessimist? why expecting the worst could actually pay off on the job.

welcome back to "your

$$$$$." time for the ticker where every week we take you through the important headlines with our good friends. ali velshi is at the university of wisconsin traveling on the cnn express. bill rodgers is a professor at rutgers university, also the former chief economist for the department of labor in the clinton years. bill tucker is a correspondent with "lou dobbs tonight." you know, let's start, i want to start here at the top. the average salary for ceos from the 20 bailed out banks, 436 times the typical american worker last year. the institute for policy studies looked at ceos from 20 banks that received the most federal aid and found they made 37% more than their counterparts in s&p 500 companies. with stock prices on the rise, stock options could cause compensation to soar even more in 2009. bill tucker, fair or unfair? >> totally unfair. what's the message here? the industry that needed the biggest bailout, they got the bailouts, they performed the worst, get the best pay and will recover the fastest? i don't see where there's equity in that. >> to me, what this says is

nothing has changed. this is not just banks. these are the 20 biggest bailed out banks. their ceos paid on average $13.8 million. that's a lot of money. >> but this is something symptomic to a lot of our public policies. lot of public outrage, comes and goes, and then there's a little hand waving, some reform. we move on. >> yeah. >> but i think, but the economist in me really feels we live in a world of the economy, capitalism, so you have to reward that initiative. however, though, if you're getting money from the federal government such as a will federal contract, where you have to provide some information back, you need to either pay it back but also, you probably have to provide some kind of additional sweetener for the cause and the pain that you created. >> how does it play in wisconsin? >> you know, i got to tell you, one of the consistent themes that i have been getting across the country is a lack of trust both in what government is doing in terms of pay and making corporate america behave properly, and obviously, a lack of trust in what corporate america has done. so you know, the problem is when

you make that much money, when you make a range that is hundreds of times what the average american makes, whether you do a good job or a bad job, the incentive to make sure you don't do a bad job is just not there, because the ceo of a major bank or corporation that is going to make more money in one year than most of us will ever make in our lifetimes, you know what, if you have a bad year, so what. you've still made more money than anyone is ever going to make around you. so i just think it's unfair. i agree with bill, there's no economist in me, but i agree we do work in a market dominated economy. there should be fairness, but it just doesn't seem that we are rewarding people for the right things right now. >> you can't say i agree with bill because i have two bills here. you have to be more specific. let's move along. i have more than two bills. economists have called the end of the recession, but when will you feel it? a study from the heldreck center at rutgers finds that more than half of respondents feel depressed or have borrowed money from friends or relatives. one in four are skipping their

rent or mortgage payments. this jives with the cnn research opinion poll where most americans believe we are still in some form of recession. they keep telling us maybe we're nearing the end of the recession but sounds like the american people aren't feeling it. >> this is something, two economies, main street economy and wall street economy. what my colleagues picked up here is they have interviewed, people have been unemployed for the last 12 months, 40% of them don't have unemployment insurance so these are individuals who are really, really -- >> you think we haven't seen the peak of that, by the way? you think we will see even more people needing to get -- >> yes, that's right. there are several estimates out there, i believe by the national employment law project where they estimate like this month, half a million americans are going to come up to the end of the exhausting of their unemployment insurance benefits and these aren't even just the regular program. this is the extended, the emergency programs, and by year's end, you're looking at a million and a half. >> we're really looking at more than 30 million people in this

economy who don't have work or who are working -- >> willing and able to work full-time but they aren't. >> it's probably a good sign they're feeling kind of depressed. those are not normal economic numbers. you should probably feel depressed. as a matter of fact, and pessimistic. >> several points here -- >> may i -- >> one is that yes, i think people are definitely feeling depressed and that's very real but society has changed. it is much more i don't want to say fashionable but i see it amongst my students. i'm taking my meds, i missed my meds, so people talk about it much more and are willing to express themselves. >> what do you think, ali? >> let me tell you, i will disagree with bill, either one. one of the things that i have been finding across the united states is as much as people are very clear, you know, a year ago there was still discussion about whether there's a recession or not. nobody's got any doubt about whether there's a recession. but boy, when you push americans into a corner, they really do become very adaptable. they really do change. so we are now in a mode where everybody gets it, and they are

doing what they have to do, whether it's living a life of new frugality or as i saw in missouri, a rural lifestyle where people are growing more things and canning their food or a caveman mentality, as some people call it. there is a lot of coping going on that may not be reflected in the studies. i'm sure that the idea of depression because of this economy is real, but the reality is, it is pushing people further than they thought they could be pushed and they are responding in some cases quite positively. they're realizing they've got to make a future for themselves and i think you're going to see a lot of americans re-inventing themselves. >> that's a really good point. we are already starting to see it in a lot of numbers, in things people are buying and doing with their money. another story we want to get to amid this doom and gloom, story in business week making the case for pessimism. making the case for pessimism. it cites studies that found that those people who go around preparing for the worst often produce better results. in the wake of the bubble bursting, do we agree that irrational optimism takes a back seat to constant worrying? if you're in your office and you're not the pollyanna, you're

like they're going to be laying people off, they're not -- they're buying less coffee for the coffee machine, you can tell what's happening. >> anecdotally, ali confirmed that. he's out there with people going okay, i got to grow my vegetables, i got to do whatever's necessary. i got to do the things i need to do to get by. then just on a practical basis, christine, the people who were pessimists a couple years ago -- >> they were right. >> they were right. they got out of stocks. >> this is good news for all the nervous wrecks in the world. bill rodgers, it's bullish to be a nervous wreck. >> it causes you to question. it causes you to ponder and to also hedge for failure or for the downside. on one level i kind of feel like there's a bunch of economists who were probably interviewed for that from day one, we are taught question that assumption. come to an economic seminar sometime. you'll see. >> never ask an economist, you'll have a whole day of talking about what keeps an economist awake at night. ali, what do you think? this is the rise of the nervous

wrecks. >> there's a lot of trust to be rebuilt, whether it's in government or corporations. people are realizing they can trust themselves. i even have people telling me the media is to blame for the whole thing. the bottom line is i think we're learning that people are learning to trust, who they trust, and they trust themselves. >> all right, ali velshi, the bills. bill rodgers, bill tucker, thanks, everybody. millions of american manufacturing jobs have been outsourced to china, mexico, lots of other countries, anywhere labor rates are cheaper but we found a company bringing those jobs back to the u.s. meet the man who is doing it and find out where the jobs are. you like your health coverage, but worry what happens...

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all right. american jobs are disappearing, many of them to china. 2.3 million jobs were outsourced to china between 2001 and 2007. most of them, in manufacturing. it may be the exception to the rule, but we found some jobs coming back. you may not have heard of faruq, but chances are you know his product. he's the founder and ceo of faruq systems, which produces a popular line of hair irons. he's moving all his production from china back to houston. he's with us right now. welcome to the program. why do you want to make these hair irons as they're called, these flat irons, as i call them, here in houston? how many people you going to be hiring?

>> we are going to be hiring over 1200 people. my brand name is the number one and let me start by saying, i'm privileged to be american, to live in united states of america, and live in the american dream. with privileges come responsibility and responsibility to defend united states of america and to stand to our responsibility as manufacturer and business people. let's think about it. we are in the midst of a recession. why are we in a recession? because we are exporting our money and we are exporting our jobs to the orient, to china and different countries. it's time to get responsible. it's time to be true american. it's time to manufacture in america and it's time to buy american-made products. >> but this is -- sounds like good patriotic loyalty but this will make good business sense

for you, right? you're talking about your production lines in china, you say you were starting to lose control of some of the oversight and management and control of that line, to counterfeiting and other things. you think you might have to raise prices or it will cost you more to make them in the united states but you will more than make that up for the error rate and other things happening in the chinese manufacturing? >> well, you know, americans, we are known for technology and advanced technology. so what we did, we did automation, we upgraded the manufacturing facility and we are not paying more in america than what we were paying in china, absolutely. this is a myth that cheap labor is the answer. cheap labor is not. advanced technology, automation, this is the answer. we are paying $8.50 there, but we have better american sales employees here, you know,

employees are more loyal, hard-working people and we are very successful, you know. look at the counterfeit that we are faced with, the bad quality, the shipping, the duties, all of that. if you take that into account, we can match the prices made in china and we are set in the prices. we have not raised the price of the iron or drier. we advanced the technology and we are very proud of what we do and hope all american manufacturers will follow what we are doing in houston, texas. >> i'll tell you that a lot of the concern is that as the economy starts to recover, the first place that some companies will try to add labor is not in this country but it is somewhere else. you write on the box "made in the usa." do you think this will be a marketing tool for you? do you think people will pay a little more or seek out, maybe, a made in the usa product? >> absolutely. i think americans love america and they actually, also

overseas, you know, i do business in 106 countries. people love american products. they believe in the quality of american products, and they believe in american lifestyle. they want our products. they don't want chinese product. it's our fault as americans that we exported or jobs. so really, get back to making in america and let's build the economy together. we can resolve many issues that we are faced with from health care, education, you know, all of that. really, what we need is more jobs. that's what really every american is looking to build the economy. that's what everybody's talking about. what can we do without money? what can we do without manufacturing? what made america the greatest? manufacturing. what is making china greater than us? manufacturing. >> we have to leave it there. we love your enthusiasm. >> we go back and borrow the money from china. >> we love your enthusiasm for

the subject on a labor day weekend, no less. clearly you're very passionate about this. you referred to yourself as the richest hairdresser in history. we're very pleased to have the richest hairdresser in history joining us on the program. thank you so much. this is why we're talking about hair irons today on the program. okay. why the irs might soon be looking very closely at your mortgage statements and what they're looking for.

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so many money stories. we need another ticker. ali velshi is traveling with the cnn express parked at the university of wisconsin, madison. bill tucker is a correspondent with "lou dobbs tonight" and we welcome in don peebles. gentlemen, the irs is looking to combat tax evasion by sifting through mortgage interest data to catch people underreporting their income. the government report says the irs is potentially losing out on $1.4 billion in missing the

discrepancies. contractors, roofers, small business owners with big mortgage payments but small income. this might not be good for you. this is the irs using mortgage interest data to find tax cheats. a good idea? >> not necessarily. look, i think obviously our tax system is based upon a voluntary level of reporting and there needs to be some enforcement to keep people honest but these are strange economic times and many people are borrowing money, they're going into their savings to pay their mortgage payments. it wouldn't be unusual for someone to have no income and be making a mortgage payment and still be allowed to deduct it. we don't want the irs in everybody's kitchen looking over our bills and looking over our shoulder. >> especially in the very high tax areas, bill tucker, where you live. i mean, you can make a case there would be a reason why you would be paying high mortgage interest but you could have a low income, but they did this audit from the year 2005 and they found all kinds of people who are paying $20,000 a year plus in mortgage interest,

reporting like $8,000 in income. it just doesn't add up. >> does my face look red, christine? because i have to admit i thought the irs was doing this anyway. i just assumed that they were doing this. i guess that's because i'm afraid of the irs and i think that's what they do all the time. don makes a very good point. certainly it's not license for them to go crazy or anything, but i just assumed that there was a relationship there that existed and that the irs would in fact go hey, we need to check on that to see if these payments make any sense and to see if this income checks out with what's been voluntarily reported. >> ali, something that somebody mentioned to me on twitter, facebook, about this story said look, before they start raising anybody's taxes why don't they try to get taxes from the people who are supposed to be paying which is an interesting point. >> yeah, although one thing that i think we have to watch out for as a trend is that a number of people who have lost their jobs, people are becoming small business people or contractors, also with the threat of health care reform, a lot of small business owners have told me if they can't afford to provide

health care the way the government wants them to, they're going to switch to using contractors. so in fact, we may see a real increase in the number of people who are private contractors over the course of the next few years, so the irs may have to think about how it approaches all of this. we may have a whole bunch more people responsible for reporting their own income and that's a whole different structure than the corporate or employer income reporting that we've had. >> very good point. okay. speaking of health care, you want more affordable health care, you can try a retail health clinic. they're popping up in pharmacies and stores like walmart and cvs. according the to a rand study, they offer lower price care. for the average visit at a retail health clinic was about $110. urgent care centers and family doctors charged about $50 more than that. a cost for popping into a crowded emergency room, $570. is it time to start shopping for health care like we would any other service? this is the first real study, bill tucker, of whether these little health clinics were as good as going to your doctor's

office and it's found they are, and cheaper. >> i'm not surprised because the people that go in are going in for relatively simple things. throat infection, screened for diabetes while they're there, screened for high blood pressure. there are prevention measures. it doesn't surprise me at all. yes, i do think it's time. >> is it part of the discussion for health care reform if we look at things like this, where we are delivering lower cost health care and it is' working? >> absolutely. we have to ask ourselves why. you look at the major hospitals, their big cost is the bureaucracy there. it's interesting, i had a test done that was an mri and i wanted to have it done where it was convenient to me, in a hospital was pretty convenient to me. the cost to do it at the hospital was about $4,000. at an mri center, it was $700. >> wow. >> and what a staggering difference there. there's a problem. that shouldn't be the case. we have to answer why it's costing so much more and why our insurance companies and our federal government are paying these absurd rates.

when you look at a comparison and i think we as americans and our government have to shop for the right price for health care. >> it's not for everybody but for somebody who needs to take a kid in, they think they might have strep throat, it might be the way to go. not for everybody, but if it's not serious, it might be the best thing to do. >> well, i was in your old stomping grounds in chicago but i was on the south side where a lot of people were in favor of health care reform but one of the things they were saying is that people who don't have health care coverage end up going to emergency clinics, as you said, not only costing the system a whole lot more, but gumming up the wait at emergency rooms for things that might be the flu which they can get from these clinics. i think it's a great development. >> one thing about the wait in the emergency room, i just have to say, these guys this last week were floating out in the gulf of mexico, the fishermen who were lost, and one of the guys was taken to the hospital, he had to wait so long in the emergency room, after eight days in a boat, he got up and went home. think of that. this guy was out on the gulf of mexico eight days and spent all this time in waiting room, said forget it, i'll go home and drink gatorade. that's the way we live. the recession has already cost

americans so much already and now, it could even cost, perish the thought, cost fans of the nfl the ability to watch their favorite team play on sundays. nfl commissioner roger goodell says that the league has no plans to change a long-standing policy of blacking out home games in the local television market when they're not sold out at least 72 hours before kickoff. with the money tight for millions of americans, nearly half the teams in the league reportedly may have to black out some of their home games, including the jacksonville jaguars, who might see all their home games blacked out. should a league consisting of billion dollar franchises cut out the average fan or should they cut them some slack? >> who do they think built them? >> tucker, tell me how you feel. >> i'm all confused about this and conflicted. i think we're watching sport franchises commit suicide. >> really? >> you can't cut out the fan. you can't say to them well, if you don't buy our tickets, it's extortion. if you don't buy our tickets, you can't see our games? we're letting them get away with that by giving them public money to build these stadiums? this is ridiculous.

i think it's time that sports franchises, whether they be the nfl or nba, remember the people who are responsible for them being there and being on tv and being so popular are people. >> absolutely. >> ali, gosh, if you're in jacksonville and you love your team. >> yeah, look, it's bad business in the long run. organized sports, professional sports, has become so expensive for families to attend, look, i'm a baseball fan, i go to the yankees games. they're virtually never full now. it's a very, very expensive venture. i wouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. >> absolutely. in fact, one of the things that's happened in professional sports, basketball, baseball and football, is most of their customers, big-paying customers, are corporations and business owners and entrepreneurs, and companies like mine. and we are not buying any season packages for any professional teams. >> you're not? >> no. how can we look at our employees and customers and say we're going to spend $100,000 to watch football or $1,000 to go and watch a basketball game 41 times a year. it's unjustifiable.

i think they have made a horrible mistake with these blackouts because it's the television programming and watching the teams on television that creates the fan base and makes us all want to dream and go to the games. now, you know, who cares if i'm living in wisconsin, who cares how the jacksonville jaguars are doing. we want to watch our own home team. i think they're making a horrible mistake. >> all right, don peebles, stick around. we'll talk about commercial real estate. bill tucker, tucker on the ticker, i see branding here. ali, thanks. talk to you soon. the meltdown in sub prime mortgages took down the global economy. there's another part of real estate melting down. danger ahead? dallas. detroit. different rates. well with us, it's the same flat rate. same flat rate. boston. boise? same flat rate. alabama. alaska? with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service. if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. dude's good. dude's real good. dudes.

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the "wall street journal" this week called it a $1 trillion time bomb. a looming crisis in the commercial real estate market. developers used borrowed money to construct offices, retail stores, warehouses and factories, hotels and apartment buildings, all during the boom. trouble is, now stores are closing. offices are anything but full. vacancy rates for just about everything are rising. property values for commercial real estate fell 18% in the second quarter of 2009. now the developers need to refinance their loans with few lenders willing to part with the money at such a risky time.

so sales are down, commercial loan defaults are up, spiking, and property values are tumbling. delinquentcy rates have risen. our next guest recently told us it's a nightmare you can't wake up from but it doesn't have to be a crisis on par with the subprime mortgage crisis. don peebles is ceo of peebles corporation. tell us how big this risk is. we know it's coming so in a way, we're preparing for it. the banks are preparing for it. >> it's a very big risk because right now, $1.3 trillion of commercial loans are hold by our national banks, basically our community and regional banks. over half of those loans are for development and construction loans. so there is a product coming online or that has come online that there's no consumer for, no user for, and ultimately, that means that these loans aren't going to be able to be paid back. the loans aren't going to be able to be serviced. so these are a significant risk

that many banks, community banks, that are vital to a neighborhood's economy and our local small business economy are going to be in big trouble and end up closed. >> so if they're in big trouble and closed, that means they're not lending to people, they're not helping you in your community, they're not growing small businesses in their community. that's the risk. that's how it could affect you and me, if the worst comes to fruition. >> absolutely. the biggest risk here is to small business owners and small business entrepreneurs. there are going to be hundreds of small community-based banks that will be closed. small businesses create over half of the u.s. jobs and they created 80% of the new jobs over the last decade. so without them, we will never get out of this recession that we've been in, and that's the key to getting out is job creation. >> in terms of financial stability, though, this is the shoe that's about to drop that we all know is about to drop. does it pose the risk in the overall economy that say the subprime crisis posed? >> it does, yes, because it's a different element. subprime mortgages really

affected individual borrowers. there wasn't a systemic risk there for the banking system, per se. these loans were packaged and sold off around the globe. these commercial real estate loans, though, are held by local and community-based banks who are going to be making loans to consumers and who are going to be making loans to the small business owner like the pizza parlor owner, the small restaurant owner or the shoe store. those people create jobs for all of us. right now, we've lost over seven million jobs with almost a 10% national unemployment rate. we need small businesses to kick back in and grow the economy and create jobs. the only way small businesses grow is having access to capital and they don't get their loans from the big money center banks. they get them from the community-based banks. that's why this is a big issue. >> all right. thank you so much. love to have you on the program. ali velshi is in wisconsin and i think he's wearing fashion to keep his hair from getting all messed up in the wind. >> i like this lid.

it's university of wisconsin school of business. >> the badgers. >> go, badgers, that's right. some of the brightest minds in the business world had a hand in messing up this economy, so i'm going to talk to a few members of the next generation, some mba students and their teachers here at the university of wisconsin school of business. stay with us. you're watching "your $$$$$." tor meter from bayer. (joe) my meter absolutely adapts to me and my lifestyle. i'm joe james, and being outside of the box is my simple win. (announcer) now available in five vibrant colors. there's no way to hide it. sir, have you been drinking tonight? if you ride drunk, you will get caught... and you will get arrested. this country definitely needs to focus on other ways to get energy. we should be looking closer to home. there are places off the continental shelf. natural gas can be a part of the solution. i think we need to work on wind resources.

they ought to be carefully mapping every conceivable alternative. there is an endless opportunity right here. she is the greatest thing ever. woman: one little smile, one little laugh. - honey bunny. - ( coos ) we would do anything for her. my name is kim bryant and my husband and i made a will on legalzoom. man: it was really easy to do. - ( blows raspberries ) - ( laughing ) robert shapiro: we created legalzoom to help you take care of the ones you love. go to legalzoom.com today and complete your will in minutes. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

hey, folks, i'm ali velshi. welcome back to "your $$$$$." i am in beautiful madison, wisconsin on the campus of the university of wisconsin madison. we've been traveling with the cnn express across the country, started in atlanta, went through tennessee, indiana, kentucky, southern illinois, and into wisconsin, where we're here in madison. let's talk to some people here from the business school on your extreme right, blare sanford, assistant dean at the school of business and responsible for career placement at the university. next to her, luis ontero, graduate student graduating in 2011. mike kinneter is dean of the

business school. ken caveat is the associate dean and a professor of finance and something else? there you go. and also an mba student graduating in 2011. mike, i will start with you. there are some people and maybe some of them in our audience who think that people with business degrees and mba graduates who moved into corporate america may have had a big hand in this economic collapse that we're in right now. has that thought occurred to you and have you done anything in your curriculum to deal with that? >> well, we of course think that we have been teaching the right principles all along but this recent episode certainly highlighted some different examples that we want to draw out of bad behavior and maybe corporate excesses. so there was certainly plenty of blame to go around but we still think that we're a big part of the solution. we think the work that we do is more important than ever. and we think one of the things that the great recession will never change is that skills and knowledge never go out of style. the real source of advantage for companies in the marketplace is really people that can innovate

and drive change. and that's what we aim to do. >> you have an undergraduate business school here, you have a graduate business school. you're i wouldn't say typical but like many of your colleagues in the business school, you worked elsewhere, you worked in health care, in fact, and made a decision to get an and in health care and made a decision to get your mba. >> i was in education for 11 years. i decided i wanted to have a greater impact with health and food. supply change was a practical way of creating solutions. how i can use my mba to help communities access healthier foods. when i came to madison, it's something i could do with this industry. >> this school has specialties for their students. they have to choose what they are doing. luis, yours is different. you are getting in brand management? >> brand management. i have been involved in the operation side. i was impacting products and

services i was giving on the backhand. so, that's how i decided i wanted to go into brand and product management. i wanting to be at the front and creation of the product. it's where you get the interaction with consumers and clients and bring the requirements into corporate or creating the solution. >> ken, you are in finance. school just started for the year. you have new students that must have questions about the role finance has played. is your first week of teaching different than in prior years? >> this week, no. the past 15 months have been an extraordinary learning experience for anyone in finance or business, for that matter. frankly, in my class last year,

i had to set aside 20 minutes to talk about who failed in the last two weeks or two days and what does it mean for the economy. what are we going to do about it? solutions people with talking about. did it make sense? we have adapted the curriculum to handle the environment we are watching unfold. but, the foundation of what we talk about and the principles don't change at all. >> blare, the prospects for the two students graduating in 2011, how does it look? >> well, there's at the beginning of their training. they come with an average of five years work experience. they will get strong management core. the marketplace is going to want them. >> thank you all. we wish you the best of luck. thanks for taking time to watch us. thanks for hosting us. >> thanks so much. next, the real green shoots

in the economy. 43 million americans are getting their hands dirty all in the name of saving money. ( revving, siren blares ) there's no way to hide it. sir, have you been drinking tonight? if you ride drunk, you will get caught...

and you will get arrested.

how is this for a return on your investment. look at this. the letter "d" may have interest to you. it's the number 500. it's the amount of money you can save from growing your own fruits and veggies from your own seats. millions of americans are gardening and growing their own vegetables. google saw a spike in canning recipes and mason jars are flying off the shelf. here are the real green shoots in the economy.

>> here. >> they work together at the queens botanical garden. >> we didn't know how to do it. we figured we'd do it together and save time and be easier for both of us. >> reporter: with help, they found abundance in a recession. >> i planted the tomatoes and the string beans and peppers. >> reporter: theirs is one of 43 million food gardens this year. the gardening association says 19% of the households growing their own fruits, vegetables and herbs are doing it for the first time. ball, the popular maker of canning supplies saw sales jump. new and newly frugal 21st century gardners. >> a vegetable is not going to

make you money, but you are not going to spend the money in the market. if you spend $100 on vegetable seeds, you'll save $2,500 on average at the supermarket. it's money to spend on your child's college fund. >> reporter: saving money, taking control, getting back to basics and bringing green to your greens. >> you are controlling how you grow it. home grown produce is much tastier than the vegetables that have been harvested a couple weeks ahead in the supermarket. >> reporter: fresh and pesticide free produce is what got her gardening in the first place. >> having my daughter, i'm conscious what she eats. being that she's 8 years old, i thought it was a good activity to do together. >> it's harvest time now.

according to burpee, not all give you a return on your investment. a $3 to $4 pack of seeds gives you a good return. don't expect it for sweet corn. for every $1 you spend, you get about $5 of supermarket corn. they must be harvesting in minnesota. >> it's really cool. >> we talked to a woman who planted a garden last year. this year, they hired someone to till up the entire backyard. >> when i was at the missouri state fair, the fair director told me people there are going back to basics. they are planting their own gardens, canning their own vegetables. i had no idea the difference was that great. >> they really do. people taking control. we have to let you take control of your weekend. thanks for joining