that's all for now, join me and the best political team on television tomorrow for president obama's address to congress, live coverage starting at 77:45 p.m. right now, "larry king live." >> listen to me. >> larry: tonight judge judy is strajed. that phillip garrido was let out of prison just to snatch jaycee dugard off the street. plus exclusive, the police detective's daughter who was kidnapped and murdered, she dialed 911 from the killer's own phone. a witness who knew she was in trouble made another frantic

call. why didn't police find denise lee before it was too late? her husband speaks publicly for the first time since her murder trial, the heart breaking crime that left two children without a mother and could send a monster to the chair, next on "larry king live." >> larry: good evening, one reminder following the president's speech tomorrow to both elements of congress, we will follow it with a major panel discussion, that's following president obama's health speech tomorrow night, a major panel discussion right here. judi jew sheindlin, her 14th season premiers on monday night. the jaycee dugard case. a girl kidnapped at age 11, allegedly held captive by this convicted rapist and his wife

for 18 years, bore two daughters, finally found and freed. you're a mother, you're a grandmother and you're a judge. tell me. >> i don't think she was allegedly was kidnapped. she was kidnapped. >> he's the alleged person. >> larry: i said allegedly held captive. >> and there's no question she was held captive. she was 11 years old. she was held captive. the only question is who did it. >> larry: and what kinds of things these may have done. >> i think the thing that should outrage people is that he was out of prison and you and i have talked about that before. so i was thinking, and i said, i have to fetch to larry. parole boards have to say to themselves as every person in

the criminal justice system involved in the system has to say to themselves, the safety of the community is our primary responsibility. rehabilitation is second. because rehabilitation as far as we know hasn't worked in the vast majority of cases where we have tried it. because the recidivism rate is well over half, probably close to 70%. so despite the trillions of dollars that we spends on reh rehabilitation doesn't work. therefore safety of the community has to be number one. here is a man who was sentenced federally to 50 years in prison. and he was paroled from federal penitentiary after serving 11 years. because he had also committed a state offense by raping a 24-year-old woman in the state of nevada, he was transported back to the state of nevada. where he had been sentenced to

five to 15 years. i guess the state of nevada said, if it was good enough for the feds to let him go, who are we to keep him? so after seven months they let him go. the one thing in all the reading that i have tried to do is, tried to find out what was in the mind of to the people who signed off on paroling him. that would be the interesting thing. not even so much why the parole officer didn't find her. some people are very devious and some parole officers are terrific and some are dumb. so that's possible. but what was in the minds of the people -- >> larry: how would we know that unless you ask them. >> you can ask them. we asked one guy at the head of the state board, that at the time he had a parole hearing, i'm going to be devil's advocate weirdly in this case which is impossible almost. under your system, why haven't

communities guaranteed safe, nobody gets out, you would need more prisons. >> first of all, no one explained why he was released because that report has been sealed. i have not seen that report anywhere. somebody wants to send it to us, you and i can renew this debate. >> larry: i'm not debating you. >> but that report has been sealed. but there are certain criteria. in my world, the first criteria would be would you want this person to live next door to you? if the answer to that question is no, you need not proceed further with this questionnaire. because it is irrelevant whether he ate his broccoli, whether she finished his spring beans, whether he got his ged. >> larry: you think a bank robber could be rehabilitated. >> i'm saying any violent felon

who's sentenced after a trial by a judge who has heard from the victims, heard from the witnesses, a violent felon, someone who goes into your home and burglarizes your home with you in it at night and holds a knife to your throat while they go through your property and takes your wife and holds a knife to her throat and then goes into your baby's room and grabs them out of bed, that's a violent crime. >> larry: how do you write that law because a violent felon would also be a husband who hits his wife. that's a violent felon and you keep him forever? >> the answer, if you would want, if you would feel comfortable having this person with this entire history living next to you, check it off and go to question number two. finished his ged, finished all of this. what i think people fail to realize in the criminal justice system is that those people, if

they're smart enough, and we hope that they're smart, have heard from victims, have seen the evidence, have seen the photographs, and -- >> larry: so what is your conclusion? are they idiots? are they malicioumalicious? >> no, but they're looking at the person that sitting before them, he's done everything he's supposed to do, that was ten years ago, he's turned around, he's born again. >> larry: don't people testify for the victims? >> in jaycee's case, they weren't the prior victim wasn't even notified of the hearing. >> larry: that's absurd. >> wasn't notified of the hearing, nor was the prosecutor. so the only person who was interviewed was the defendant, was the subject of the proceeding. that's ridiculous. >> larry: as she said, phillip

garrido was on parole when jaycee was abducted. judge judy has expressed her views on incarceration and rehab many times on this show. watch this. isn't the whole purpose of the system rehabilitation. >> well, larry, that's part of the purpose of the system. >> larry: punishment is a purpose too? >> punishment is a big part of it. a big piece is to keep society safe, for me. incarceration is supposed to keep the community safe from your behavior and if you don't -- because rehabilitation, despite the fact that we have spent trillions of dollars on various forms of rehabilitation, the only way to rehabcure a pede is to kill him. unless you want to put him somewhere in the sahara and make sure that they can't get away.

>> larry: were the police negligent in failing to find jaycee dugard, that's tonight's quick vote question. go to c nrnn.com/larryking. sex offender registries, do you think they're good? we'll ask judge judy next. i've been growing algae for 35 years. most people try to get rid of algae, and we're trying to grow it. the algae are very beautiful. they come in blue or red, golden, green. algae could be converted into biofuels... that we could someday run our cars on. in using algae to form biofuels, we're not competing with the food supply. and they absorb co2, so they help solve the greenhouse problem, as well. we're making a big commitment to finding out... just how much algae can help to meet... the fuel demands of the world.

jaycee and her daughters are with her mom and younger sister in a secluded place

reconnecting. i was with them until recently. we shared time sharing memories and getting to know each other. she is especially enjoying getting to know her little sister who was just a baby when jaycee was taken. >> larry: now what do you think the idea of a registry that we all know where they are? after they're paroled? >> i guarantee you not one of them is living next to you in beverly hills and not one of them is living next to me in greenwich, not one of them is living next door to me in naples, florida. the question has to be, if you would not be comfortable paroling this person to live next door to you -- >> larry: everything goes back to you?

>> no, everything goes back to common sense. everything goes back to common sense. sure, it's wonderful to feel that the human condition can be changed, the mind can be rewired, everybody can do better, you can change everybody and the truth of the matter is based upon my 40 years experience in the justice system and added to that, my husband's 45 or 50 years in the system, we know that there are certain people that are just wired wrong. >> larry: what does that do to the judeo christian -- >> it's practical, practical. and if you are one of those people and i heard in a prior clip, i said you either have to kill them or put them away so they can't hurt anybody especially. capital punishment, whether you're for it or against it, let's say you're against it. build more jails, you want to keep them away, build more

jails, make it part of the stimulus package. not everything can be building a bridge and a suer. >> larry: phillip and nancy garrido are accused of holding jaycee dugard in the backyard of their home in northern california. if you go to the national registry and type in -- the county has about 1,700 registered sex offenders. what do you do with that? if i find out the guy living two blocks away is -- what do i do? not go by his house? >> you're asking me in my world, in my world, a sex -- someone who's a predatory sex offender and we're not talking about a 21-year-old kid who has sex with a 15-year-old girl who looks 18 and is wearing high heels, we're talking about the kind of guy

like this guy who planned to kidnap a woman, took her to a storage unit, that he had outfitted with pornography, held her captive for hours, put her through something in which she will never recover, and some genius interviews him 11 years later and says, well, he ate all his broccoli, and he got a ged. and he married some other lunatic who married this sex offender when she was coming to visit another lunatic in federal prison, so we think he's all ready to re-enter society. the person who recommended that, i'm sure in the caveat says, she's not -- he's not moving into 90210 zip code, he's not moving into my zip code, he's

moving to nevada. nevada's not going to keep this guy, they said if he's good enough for the feds, let's release him back to california. it comes back to common sense and it comes back to people making the judgments for other people's lives and the first priority has to be the safety of the community. not whether phillip ate his green beans. >> larry: is there a sex offender living in your neighborhood? we're going to show you how to find out. we'll do it in 60 seconds.

>> larry: we're back with judge judy, her show of 14 years premiers monday night. we have talked about the large numbers of sex offenders living in phillip garrido's neighborhood. what about your neighborhood? you can find out at

familywatchdog.u-s. we're putting our zip code here in los angeles in the designated box. we're going to call it up now and you'll see where the sex offenders are and who they are as well. sarah is at the machine, she clicks it in. >> you need to be worried about the red ones. as you click on each scare, you will learn for about the offender, who he is, what he did and where he lives. >> larry: that's our area now? whatever, we have a lot of reds in this area? >> yes, larry, we do. and as you can see, we have got a lot of reds, we should be concerned about all of the

colors, but the reds are the ones we should be focusing on. >> larry: judy, what is your comment? >> my comment is do you want all of those reds living next to you? and if the answer is no, people need have to start getting real and say there are certain people that are just, despite our best efforts and despite all of god's good work are wired wrong. there's just something in there that we can't take care of. and even if 20% of them will not resid vat, are you willing to risk the other 80% of our children? if you have a sex offender and let us assume that he doesn't grab another child, but exposes himself to your 6-year-old child at the bus stop. i remember i was a young girl

and i was walking with a friend, a man walked by in a raincoat, i was no more than 6 or 7 years old. that is still so vivid in my mind today. can you imagine somebody being touched, being fondled? i can't. >> larry: we have all this information on our website, we have it on c nrks nrnn.com/larr. and the wife, is she a victim, next. i would say convenience is something

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not only have we laughed and cried together, but we have spent time sitting quietly, taking pleasure in each other's company. we are so very grateful to have her home. the smile on my sister's face is as wide as the sea. her oldest daughter is finally home. >> larry: judge, how do you explain -- you're a family court judge. how would you explain to the two children that phillip garrido fathered with this abduct tee who know him as a father and know her as a mother? >> i don't know, it's not my role. but you just think of how many victims there are. because of somebody's misjudgment. certainly she, certainly her two children, certainly her mother, her step father who lived a life

under suspicion that he was the one who had something to do with abducting her. and all of the people that were touch touched by this evil doer, by the this badly wired evil doer. i remember my husband did a trial with a pedophile who had a long rap sheet of pedophilia, who said we have to send him to sex offender school, he went to school while he was in jail. and he appeared before jerry slind lynn. sheindlin. he said it's not my fault because i'm wired wrong. it may b that was his defense. i can't help myself. they can't help themselves. they can't help themselves. we need places for people who can't help themselves. you don't put them back in the community. you put them where they can't

hurt anybody. >> what about mrs. garrido. do i sound shrill when i say that? >> larry: deservedly shrill. >> i am. >> larry: what about mrs. garrido, we have a lot to learn here. >> i doubt the sanity of anybody who decides to be a pen pal of a prisoner and then goes and marries them while they're in federal prison. i would have to say, what would i tell my daughter if my daughter said to me, i'm going to marry a man who's been convicted of a violent rape, in a storage unit, and we're getting married because we're going to live a happy life together. i mean, larry, you're laughing. but what would i say to my daughter? it doesn't make sense, right? it's absurd. >> larry: what was going on in that house, what do the kids think mrs. garrido was? there were two mrs. garrido's in the house.

>> they'll never be able to figure out their lives. they'll try, they'll go to therapy and they'll have bonding sessions and they'll have time together, but their lives will always be screwed up. you know, little things happen to us during the course of our lives when we were children that stay was. i read your book, little things. i know in my own childhood, little things stayeded with me, but we're able to overcome, you know they weren't so tragic that we weren't able to overcome. these children can't overcome. >> larry: what do you think it's like for children who were molested by priests, do you think that's different? or is molesting is molesting? >> molesting is molesting, these people are wired wrong, and not only are they wired wrong, but they were place in a position where they knew they were going to be dealing with vulnerable children and they knew what their plan was. >> larry: yeah. by the way, investigators are looking into other abductions in the area to see if there's any

link and an expert has determined that the bone fragment found in the backyard of garrido's neighbor is probably human. we'll be questioning the state to see if there can be a dna profile on that fragment. we'll be right back. -d-d-d-d-d-d

>> larry: we're back with judge judydiscussing, i don't know if

you can even discuss this or analyze it. you said the interesting thing, you said if bernie madoff developed cancer and had three months to live, he would probably not be paroled. >> right. >> larry: never killed anyone, never committed a violent crime. >> didn't kill 270 people. >> larry: someone who killed 270 people got off? >> no, he went back to libya to die. scott land said that's what we do, that's compassionate release. he killed 270 people. but i guarantee you, ma bernie madoff will die in jail. i'm not saying that they should release him. if god forbid he had cancer, he should die in jail with whatever medical facilities that they have for him. but i'm saying to you that the system is screwed up, larry. that every person in law enforcement, kudos to those

people who are security people on campus that brought this ultimately to the attention of the authorities. and there will be people out there who will say, well, she operated on a hunch and we don't like law enforcement people to operate on hunches. well, having been in law enforcement, i will tell you, as a judge, i always felt my first responsibility was to protect the public, do justice, but to protect the public. and that's where people should come from. that's the primary job of the president of the united states. to make sure that his country is safe. >> larry: right. >> primary job, that's what his job is. primary job of a governor, a my your, judges, police officers, those people who are charged with the judgment of making the rest of us safe, that has to be their first question. >> larry: speaking of judgment, i'm going to be talking with nathan lee very shortly, his

wife denise was abducted from their florida home, she was raped and killed in january of 2008. last week, a jury unanimously recommended the death penalty for her murder. it seems like a horribly random crime and the perpetrator apparently had no criminal record. this was a woman who had the perpetrator's cell phone, dialed 911. nothing. >> you're not suggesting that it's the cell phone's fault that nothing happened, that it was the 911 operator. and larry, may have no criminal history, you know, there are laws throughout this country that say, well, if you're 18 and 17 and 19, 20 years old, you can be a juvenile offender and if you eat all your broccoli, we'll -- and eat your green beans, we're going to expunge your record after a certain period of time, seal it so that nobody can ever look at it and say what's your history?

so i don't know whether he has a history or not, i don't know enough about it. but, he was convicted of a horrendous act and you and i have had discussions on the death penalty before. i don't know what the majority of the people in this country would say if they were queried. but the last time i heard, most people in this country, the majority of people in the country say, that should be an option. not necessarily the option, but it should be an option for the system. >> larry: it's a little scary when you find that over 200 people on death row have been released, they didn't do it. the guy just died as an arsonist who didn't commit the arson. how do you address that grievance. >> somebody was released because they allegedly did not commit a rape, a horrendous rape, based allegedly on dna evidence that

they did not commit a rape and within, was it a year or six months, i don't remember how long, two months of his release, he did it to somebody else. do you think he was getting even? i think that sometimes things can be manipulated. so i don't know the answer to that. but in a clear-cut case, where there is no issue as to whether or not this was the perpetrator of this atrocity, i believe in my soul that that should be an option and certainly there should not be any opportunity for that person to get out ever. >> larry: you were a family court judge, this is the last question before you leave us. >> okay. >> larry: could you sentence someone to death. >> yes. i could. i could. i think that if the state where i was sitting had that as an option, and there was no

question in my mind that this was the perpetrator, and i listened to the family which you do now. and the family said to me, i would sleep better knowing that this person wasn't breathing, that my daughter and her children who he killed during the course of a home invasion robbery, no question, they found him in the home with a knife, confessed, he said i was high on lsd, it was the lsd that made me do it. i would say arregood buy. >> larry: 14 years in that slot, doing it again another year. up next, a husband whose live was forever changed by a killer. the victim, a wife and mother did everything right, called 9/11 and so did a witness. don't go away. >> screaming, screaming,

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and you can start today, by earning your degree online... at walden university. where advanced degrees advance the quality of life. wnba -- welcome back, joining us is nathan lee from eveningalwood, florida. he's the widower of denise amber lee, his wife was abducked from their home, assaulted and murdered on january 17, 2008. denise used her kidnapper's cell phone to call 911 during her

terrible or deal, but to no avail. michael king was convicted of the crimes and a jury recommended last week that he be sentenced to death in the electric chair. joining us is nathan lee. a jury has convicted michael king of the death penalty, is just served, nathan? >> well, nothing will ever be able to bring denise back, but, you know, i think the family is satisfied with the outcome and definitely glad he's going to be sentenced to death. >> larry: what i dy did you go t trial every day? >> i just felt like i had to be there for denise. i wanted to know what was going on. the what are ship that denise went through that entire time when she was kidnapped was nothing compared to me sitting through the trial was nothing compared to that and i just wanted to be there so michael king could see me and the family

and, you know, it wasn't fun, but we had to do it. >> larry: your wife was a beautiful woman. take me back to january 17, 2008, what happened on that day, when did you talk to your wife? what happened? >> well, i talked to her a couple of times that morning. just normal conversations, i normally talked to her throughout the day on my cell phone, i would put it on speakerphone and put it in my pocket. i read meters for an electric company. it started raining, i didn't talk to her for about four or five hours and on my way home from work at about 3:00, i started trying to call her. she didn't answer. i called her about eight times and she didn't answer. i got home and my kids were in the house by themselves. in the same crib. denise wasn't anywhere to be found. called 911 right away. i knew something was not right. because she would never go to the mailbox without the boys. noah, my oldest was 2 and my

youngest, adam was six months and she was kidnapped. raped and then murdered. >> larry: that call you made 911 after finding her missing, here's a little bit of that call, your call. >> i just got home from work and my wife, i can't find her, my kids were in the house and i don't know where she is, i have looked every single place and i don't know -- >> your kids are at home by themselves? >> yes. >> how old are your kids, sir? >> my oldest is 2 and my youngest is 6 months. she wouldn't just leave, i don't know where she is. the windows were open. i have no idea. >> hold on one second, okay? >> okay.

i know, i don't know where mommy is. >> larry: did 911 help at all, or what could they do? >> well, there were a total of five 911 calls, i was the first. my wife actually got a hold of michael king's cell phone when he went to his cousin's house to get a shovel. and a gas can and she called 911. they couldn't track his cell phone, when she called. two more people called, family members of the person who did this and a woman named jane kowalski called while she was driving beside them saying a woman was screaming in the car. the county sheriff's office took the call and they never

dispatched anybody. and they definitely would have been able to find her if they would have dispatched it. >> larry: hold it, nathan, we're going to come back in 60 seconds, we're going to play that call from the driver by. and get your thought as to who goofed. we'll be back. but those days are back-back-back-back-back gone! i'm chris berman, and i lost 41 pounds with nutrisystem. just order nutrisystem for men today to get four weeks of awesome food, and learn how to get three extra weeks free. let's go to the highlights. mike "all i ate was golic bread": down, 51 pounds. don "blue suede" shula: down 32 pounds. dan "glam man" marino: lost 22 pounds. guys, you can do this. you'll get four weeks of satisfying meals, for less than 12 bucks a day. that's 140 rib-sticking meals. my goal was 40 pounds, and look, he could...go...all...the...way!

if i can lose the weight, you can lose the weight. that's 105 meals free. call or click now. >> look at is the baby, he's picking his head up. good job, adam, good boy. >> larry: as nathan lee mentioned, another 911 call was played at michael king's trial. a motorist saw what she thought was a child screaming inside an adjacent car. listen.

>> larry: that was a woman, and that was what was happening to your wife who must have sounded by the sounds of the screams like a younger lady. nothing happened from that, nathan? nothing? >> no. you know, obviously there were multiple agencies scrambling to search for denise that entire time. there were be on the lookout notices for a green camaro and denise and the suspect who was michael king. and they actually got a 911 call with a motorist saying that she saw them in an area that was actually specific to one of the bolos.

and so i mean they were looking for her, they finally found her. a motorist was in real time giving cross streets of where they were. and nothing, they never dispatched anybody. >> larry: how was he caught? >> well, finally, he proceeded right after that to take her to a wooded area, where he shot her, and buried her and then when he was -- when he left that area, which was in a secluded area, he went back on to a busy road, tried to get on the interstate, i-75, and there were two cops sitting at that intersection of the overpass and they spotted him and then pulled him over and then they arrested him. so probably only two hours after he murdered her they finally found him. >> larry: your father-in-law in a police officer with that department? >> yeah, he's actually been

employed there for 26 years at the same sheriff's office that botched this call. >> larry: we'll get back and get nathan lee's thoughts on all of this. what do you make of it? we'll be right back. dad, here-look at this- your p.a.d. isn't just poor circulation in your legs causing you pain. ok-what is it? dad, it more than doubles your risk of a heart attack or stroke. i can't keep anything from you. you better read about plavix. if you have p.a.d., plavix can help protect you from a heart attack or stroke. plavix helps keep blood platelets from sticking together and forming clots- the cause of most heart attacks and strokes. dad don't put this off. p.a.d. more than doubles your risk of a heart attack or stroke. promise me you'll talk with your doctor about plavix? i'll do it. i promise. (announcer) if you have a stomach ulcer or other condition that causes bleeding, you should not use plavix.

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>> larry: before we get back with nathan lee, anderson cooper will host ac 360 at the top of the-hour, right now he's in a patrol base in helmand province. anderson, what's happening there. >> larry, it was a tough day for the marines here in afghanistan, four marines were killed in the east in kunar province, far from

here. tonight we're going to take you on patrol. and michael ware takes us on night patrol in comes close to life. he takes us to the front line. it's an amazing story. and dr. sanjay gupta is here. he is lending a much needed hand at a battlefield hospital. we'll show you all that live from afghanistan tonight. those stories and more on "306"" larry. >> larry: we're back with nathan lee, the widower of denise amberlee. in the 911 call, she fools her kidnapper into thinking she is talking to him when she is communicating with a 911 operator. she says want to see my family again and pleas with him to let her go. she tries to get him to provide her information about where they are. her final words are help me. why couldn't they trace this?

what -- how did they explain this to you? >> well, you know, i'm not an expert in the 911 field. but obviously throughout this whole ordeal starting denise amber lee foundation, people have explained this to me. i guess the way the system works now, the 911 system, they use a form of tracking called triangulation. you get pings off a cell phone towers. and they use these calculations to try to find the location of the person making the call. it's a very tedious and long process. especially with today's gps technology. you can have a gps on your dashboard and track yourself going down the road. it's amazing to me that with today's technology and advancements of technology we can't track a cell phone more accurately. you know, so it's been something that our foundation working alongside with the 911 industry really been trying to work

towards as far as getting funding, working with cell phone companies and trying to get that, you know -- how many lives could be saved if you could track a cell phone by gps? people being kidnapped? cars and people stranded on, you know, i mean it's amazing. >> larry: the web address is deniseamberl deniseamberlee.org. you're trying to straighten out the 911 situation. >> yeah. we actually become pretty much the spokesperson for 911 reform. and, you know, unfortunately 911 isn't magic. there is a lot of dedicated people that work in our 911 industry and trying to do their best. they're sitting in a room trying to help you while they're on the phone with you. and they're almost completely helpless. so we're really trying to push with federal legislators, state legislators to try to get better funding for 911. >> larry: nathan lee also plans

to file suit against the charlotte county sheriff's office. in fact, his father who works in that office plans to join in the lawsuit. we asked the sheriff's office for a statement and nathan lee's planned lawsuit and they have declined to comment. more after the break. that maybe has to choose between paying their credit card or putting food on the table. our main objective is to reach out to the customers that are falling behind on their payments. a lot of customers are proud and happy that bank of america actually has a solution to help them out. i listen. that's the first thing i do is i listen. you know what, what happened? what put you in this situation? we always want to make sure that we're doing i'll go through some of his monthly expenses, if he has a mortgage payment, if he pays rent. and then i'll use all that information to try and see what kind of a payment

he financially can handle. i want to help you. bank of america wants to help you through this difficult time. when they come to you and they say thank you aj, for helping me with this problem, that's where we get our joy from.

>> larry: nathan dshgs the defendant take the stand at the trial? >> no, he did not. >> larry: so did you ever find out how he took her? >> well, obviously, most of that

is speculation. denise was actually cutting my son's hair that day at some point. apparently he was just driving around neighborhoods and drove around that -- our house about five times. at least the neighbor next door saw him drive around five or six times. and so we think that he probably spotted her on the back porch. it was in the middle of january in florida. all the windows were open. it was like 70 degrees outside. you know, no idea what happened. he could have come to the door. you know, people come to your door all the time. you open it not thinking they're going to kidnap you. so i don't think we'll ever be able to find out why. i'm just glad he's not going to be able to, you know -- >> larry: do it to anybody else. how are the little boys doing? >> it's amazing. yeah, it's amazing how resilient children are. they're doing great. they're getting really big. they both love baseball which is great for me.

but they're doing good. and we're moving forward and doing our best. you know, they're good. >> larry: how old are they now? >> noah is 3, 3 1/2 and adam is 2. and they're both resting comfortably in bed right now. >> larry: and are you the sole -- do you have anyone else helping you take care of them? >> well, i almost have the entire community helping me take care of them. but both sets of grandparents, denise's parents, my parents have been amazing with helping me and a lot of friends and family. the support has been tremendous. my work, best buy is great with letting me get time off when i need it. and just -- i really couldn't have a better situation considering the circumstances. i don't feel alone. >> larry: what advice -- nathan, what advice have you gotten as to when and how to tell them about their mother? >> larry: you know, people told me, you know, just make sure you

wait and don't give them any false, you know, realities like say she's sleeping or that, you know -- they know that she's in heaven as an angel. i'm hoping that my whole family will be there with me on that day when i have to tell them exactly what happened. i don't want to fill their minds with all the details. but at some point they're going to need to know. but they know that something is wrong. they know that she's in heaven. so that's most important thing now at their age the way they are. >> larry: what was she like as a mother and wife? >> larry: perfect. just amazing how selfless she was. everything she did was for others. you know, just looking at her with the kids just made my heart melt every time. she loved being a mom. we were both young. she was 21 when she was murdered. and, you know, she got pregnant when she was 18. you know, we started a family and, you know, we couldn't be happier. but i think whenever you think about having the perfect wife and mother, you know, you can

look it up in the dictionary and her picture would be there. you know, i miss her a lot. and it's just tragic that boys don't have their mother anymore. i think that is the hardest part to get over is just knowing that they don't have any idea really. and some day they're going to find out. i think that's the hardest part of the entire situation. >> larry: what has it done to your faith? >> larry: i'll tell you, it's actually strengthened it. you know, i understand that there is free will. and that's one of the greatest gifts god gives you. and i just want to make sure that my kids grow up in a home and we, you know -- i know she's in heaven. she's an angel and looking over us. and i'm definitely not hating, you know, god or anything like that. i'm just glad and fortunate that i have what i have. i have two beautiful kids and a great family. >> larry: nathan, we salute you, nathan. the web address for more information, want to help, good idea,