together, that when fortune turns against one of us, others are there to lend a helping hand. a belief that in this country, hard work and responsibility should be rewarded by some measure of security and fair play. and an acknowledgement that sometimes government has to step in to help deliver on that promise. this has always been the history of our progress. in 1935, when over half of our seniors could not support themselves and millions had seen their savings wiped away, there were those who argued that social security would lead to socialism, but the men and women of congress stood fast and we are all the better for it. in 1965 when some argued that medicare represented a government takeover of health care, members of congress, democrats and republicans, did not back down, they joined together so that all of us could

enter our gold en years with soe basic peace of mind. you see, our predecessors understood that government could not and should not solve every problem. they understood that there are instances when the gains and security from government action are not worth the added constraints on our freedom. but they also understood that the danger of too much government is matched by the perils of too little. that without the leavening hand of wise policy, markets can crash, monopolies can stifle competition, the vulnerable can be exploited. and they knew that when any government measure, no matter how carefully crafted or beneficial, is subject to scorn, when any efforts to help people in need are attacked as un-american, when facts and reason are thrown overboard and only timidity passes for wisdom, and we can no longer even engage in a civil conversation with

each other over the things that truly matter, that at that point, we don't merely lose our capacity to solve big challenges, we lose something essential about ourselves. that was true then, it remains true today. i understand how difficult this health care debate has been. i know that many in this country are deeply skeptical that government is looking out for them. i understand that the politically safe move would be to kick the can further down the road, to defer reform one more year, or one more election, or one more term, but that is not what this moment calls for. that's not what we came here to do. we did not come to fear the future. we came here to shape it. i still believe we can act, even when it's hard. [ applause ]

>> i still believe -- i still believe that we can act when it's hard. i still believe we can replace acrimony with civility, and gridlock with progress. i still believe we can do great things and that here and now we will meet history's test, because that's who we are. that is our calling. that is our character. thank you. god bless you. and may god bless the united states of america. [ applause ]

>> the president of the united states, speaking for about 45 minutes, making his case for health care reform. making his case, he strongly, strongly stated statements on all the most controversial issues, insisting that he still would like to see a government-sponsored public option, allowing a public insurance company, in effect, to compete with private insurance companies. also, reaching out to republicans, agreeing with them that something should be done about malpractice lawsuits and he says he's willing to test some new ideas. he's also promising that his proposals will not raise the deficit. dana bash, our senior congressional correspondent, is in there. dana, he got sort of political, he made some tough statements, and some of the republicans responded with some tough words of their own. in fact, one congressman, republican congressman, could be heard saying, "you lie." >> that's right.

it was very clearly heard, "you lie." pretty hard to see from my vantage point. we have a good idea who this republican congressman was, but we want to be absolutely sure before we name him, so to speak, and call him out on that. another congressman held up a sign, in fact, just another show of protest. i'm not sure if you could see it on the television cameras, but you could clearly see it here in the chamber. several republicans held up copies of house republican health care plans at times when the president talked about the fact that maybe they didn't have ideas or more specifically, at one point, when the president said that his door is always open. the republicans waving their plans to not so subtly signal that they do have -- that they do have ideas and they wish the president would engage them. so there were lines here where republicans were on their feet along with democrats, but certainly at the beginning and towards the end, it was strikingly, strikingly partisan and it was really illustrated in watching the floor of the house

of representatives, because it is divided by democrats and republicans, one side was standing up, the other side was sitting down. back on that, very quickly, that moment where the republican congressman screamed "you lie," what he was responding to, wolf, was a line where the president said that people who are illegal immigrants, that they would not be insured. that was where you heard "you lie." and democrats were not very happy about it. they actually booed him. >> and the president of the united states said, anyone charges he supports these death panels, he said it is a lie plain and simple. the republican response is now going to be delivered by representative charles bu stanny. he's the congressman from louisiana, himself a former cardiac surgeon. let's go to the strom thurman room on the senate side. >> good evening. i'm dr. charles bu stanny and i'm proud to serve the people of louisiana's seventh congressional district. i'm also a heart surgeon with more than 20 years of experience during which i saw firsthand the need for lowering health costs.

republicans are pleased that president obama came to the capitol tonight. we agree, much needs to be done to lower the cost of health care for all americans. on that goal, republicans are ready and we've been ready to work with the president for common sense reforms that our nation can afford. afford is an important word. our country's facing many challenges. the cost of health care's rising, federal spending is soaring, we're piling huge debt on our children, and families and small businesses are struggling through a jobless recovery with more than 2.4 million private sector jobs lost since february. it's clear, the american people want health care reform. but they want their elected leaders to get it right. most americans wanted to hear the president tell speaker pelosi, majority leader reid, and the rest of the congress that it's time to start over on a common sense, bipartisan plan

focused on lowering the cost of health care while improving quality. that's what i've heard over the past several months in talking to thousands of my constituents. replacing your family's current health care with government-run health care is not the answer. in fact, it will make health care much more expensive. that's not just my personal diagnosis as a doctor or a republican, it's the conclusion of a nonpartisan congressional budget office, the neutral scorekeeper that determines the cost of major bills. i read the bill democrats passed through committee in july. it creates 53 new government bureaucracies, adds hundreds of billions to our national debt, and raises taxes on job creators by $600 billion and it cuts medicare by $500 billion while doing virtually nothing to make the program better for our seniors. the president had a chance tonight to take the

government-run health care off the table. unfortunately, he didn't do it. we can do better with a targeted approach that tackles the biggest problems. here are four areas, four important areas where we can agree right now. one, all individuals should have access to coverage, regardless of pre-existing conditions. two, individuals, small businesses, and other groups should be able to join together to get health insurance at lower prices, the same way large businesses and labor unions do. three, we can provide assistance to those who still cannot access a doctor. and four, insurers should be able to offer incentives for wellness care and prevention. that's something particularly important to me. i operated on too many people who could have avoided surgery if they'd made simple -- simply made healthier choices earlier in life. we do have ideas the president hasn't agreed with.

we're grateful the president mentioned medical liability reform and we hope he's serious. we need to establish tough liability reform standards, encourage speedy resolution of claims, and deter junk lawsuits that drive up the cost of care. real reform must do this. let's also talk about letting families and businesses buy insurance across state lines. i, and many other republicans, believe that that will provide real choice and competition to low terrify cost of health insurance. unfortunately, the president disagrees. you can read more about all of these reforms at healthcare.gop.gov. these are common sense reforms we can achieve right now without destroying jobs, exploding the deficit, rationing care, or taking away the freedoms american families cherish. this congress can pass meaningful reform soon to reduce some of the fear and anxiety

families are feeling in these very difficult times. working together in a bipartisan way, we can truly lower the cost of health care while improving quality for the american people. i'm dr. charles boustany, thank you for listening. >> and again, wolf, we just heard from louisiana congressman charles boustany, who's also a doctor, delivering the republican response. we've got our whole panel who's going to be with us here to give their whole response on the president's speech and the republican's response. take a quick break and be right back. goodwrench... we roll out the blue carpet for drivers of these great gm brands. we can do the small things, the big things, just about everything... right inside your gm dealership. find out more at goodwrench.com.

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this joint session of congress, but there was some heckling, some ugly words that certainly did come forth, certainly nothing like the house of commons in london, but it was sort of unusual to hear one congressman say -- >> "you lie." >> "you lie" to the president of the united states. >> and then being booed by many democrats. we'll be telling you who that congressman is once we confirm and know for sure who it is. we want to bring back our panel to get your take on the president's speech and the republican response. john king joining us. john, you got to concede, the man can give a speech. >> the man can give a speech. he's in a room, 530 plus members of congress, his own cabinet, about 600 people in the room or more, but he wasn't talking to them. he was talking to the american people and largely he was talking to two groups, independents who have backed away from his plan because they're worried the government can't afford it, how are they going to pay for it, and will it mess with their insurance? the president saying, we'll save all this money and we'll have a trigger mechanism, if we haven't saved all the money by 2012, we'll find more resources before we do this and it won't raise the deficit. the other group was seniors, the

most important group in the electorate, in the 2010 election. what they're telling about medicare is a lie. if they can hold those groups, get seniors, he'll pass the health care bill. >> what happens now, gloria? how do they take it to the next level? >> that go back to the committee, find out if they have a report and hammer a bill out. and i think this is a president under no illusion that he's going to get a lot of republican support. he may get one republican senator, if he's lucky, but i think that he's hoping that this talk of fiscal responsibility is going to keep some of those moderate conservative democrats with him in the house. you know, he took something from john mccain, he took something from hillary clinton, he took medical malpractice from the republicans to the disdain of lots of liberal democrats. so there was something in there for everybody. >> and you said at the beginning of the night, candy, game changer was not the way you wanted to set up this this

evening, that put the stakes way too high. but was it enough to get the little increment movement they needed? >> anytime you have a president that has this broad of an audience, you'll see the numbers move. the question is, will they move permanently? what happens from here, tonight, tomorrow, who's he going to talk to at the white house? he'll talk to conservative and moderate democrats, stage two, knock some heads. >> he's got to do a lot of talking. paul, he's got problems, obviously, with the republicans and by and large, he's not going to get any of their significant support, but can he unite those so-called conservative blue-dog democrats and the liberal democrats, the progressive democrats, as they like to call themselves, can they get all of them behind him? >> that's who he was talking to. and democracy corps, a nonprofit liberal group that james carville and stan greenberg was doing some focus groups tonight with dialysis. i was checking in with them as they were doing those. obviously, most of what he said was way up with democrats. well, that matters, because, ultimately, this is in the hands of the democrats. but he scored very well with

independents as well. and it is those blue dog democrats who care about fiscal issues that he was really speaking to, both at home, and in the hall. and when he went and said, the bush tax cut, the war in iraq and the prescription drug plan exploded the deficit, he was talking to them, because a lot of them voted for that. so he's going to be able to take them behind a closed door now and say, hey, bud, you jacked up the deficit under the last president. you've got to help me now. and i think that's going to be a powerful argument behind closed doors. he said it very politely in public tonight. >> when all is said and done, though, david, a lot of those very nervous democrats, the conservative moderate democrats, they're worried about getting re-elected next year. >> they are, indeed. and they should be. my sense is that he very much endorsed the baucus plan tonight, the moderate democratic plan. it had very little -- nothing about taxation in here, nothing about the rangel stuff. he didn't come out four scaquar for the public option. i think this is very much what they're trying to build in the senate side.

my sense of the speech in terms had he reversed the tide, which i think was the real test, had he given this speech three months ago when there was a glow about his presidency, i think he could have swept the country. it was a very well-crafted speech. but now, given everything that's happened, i think millions of american who is voted for him will say tonight, we saw the obama we elected. they will be really excited by this speech, but for a lot of others, i'm not sure it moved them very much. i'm not sure it healed the divides. maybe it moved some of the independents, as paul said, but i just -- we're so dug in, i'm not sure it moved the people he ultimately needed to move if he needs to reverse the tide. >> do you agree with that, ed? >> i think he clearly laid out his objectives. these are his goals. there are two lines i want to repeat. "while there remain some significant details to be ironed out," that's what was missing tonight. >> and that got a laugh, by the way. >> it should have got a laugh. and the other point about

maifmaifr medicare, he said we're going to reduce the waste and inefficiency to pay for this plan and it will cost $900 billion. that's $900 billion out of medicare waste -- we've all gone through waste, fraud, and abuse. if i'm a senior out there, i'm saying -- >> he didn't say all that $900 billion would come from medicare. he said hundreds of billions of dollars would come from waste and wabuse in medicare. >> it doesn't matter. i think he did not quiet the anguish that will go on among those senior citizens. the key thing, he laid out his goals and objectives, the details will come from the congress. there's a lot of things in this thing that can be challenged tonight. and the media, is the experts going to challenge, how do you pay for it? >> did he convince any republicans in the house or the senate to come aboard? >> to the best of my knowledge, he didn't, and i don't think that was his purpose. i think he once again proved he could give a great speech. it's a tough topic, but he stood up there, looked presidential, and obviously he held his own party. >> campbell, now what he's got

to do, the president of the united states and all of his aides and allies on capitol hill, they have to follow up and deliver, because one speech is simply not going to do it. >> and do you, to that end, john king, expect sort of a campaign-style tour. we know he's going to have this event on saturday, but what are we going to see from him? is he going to go out and we'll see candidate obama reemerge around the country. >> he said it in the speech, he said if you say something that i think is out of bounds and a mischaracterization, i'm going to call you out. so yes, we'll see candidate obama. and that's a challenge, because he said, we have to put aside the washington games, do this like grown-ups and in a partisan way. well, this is going to be the defining part of his presidency and the president who said, we have to do it like grown-ups will have to go out there and fight. >> so much at stake for the president and the american people. larry king is standing by and he's got a special program. larry, pick it up. >> larry: thank you so much, wolf. we're right on top of things. in a couple of moments, we'll talk with senator john mccain. he got a nice referral tonight

from the president. let's have a question, though, i have a question for john king, who's erstwhile looking at maps and things. when will we get our first polls and what will the effect of the polls be on the people in that house tonight? >> we'll get our first polls within the hour. and there are advocacy groups both on the democratic sid, the republican side, all the interest groups are all polling and will put them out there. we'll know in an hour or so what the american people, at least those watching the speech thing, and that's your first target audience, those watching the speech. and then we'll see over the next few weeks as the president travels the country, as the republicans try to argue to take issue with some of his proposals, the key constituencies moving. because in the month of august, if the white house asked, do you support the president's plan, that number held pretty steady. but if you asked the american people, do you approve of his handling of the issue, that's dropped. if the american people watch this speech and think he's handling it right, he can make the case to all those nervous

democrats. this is a democratic calculation right now. if he can get republican votes, great, but the question right now is can he keep the democrats in line, force the consensus. and if the american people trust him more, then he can get the democrats and the white house, cut the deals, make them compromise and say, you'll be okay in next year's election that is a bigger risk to do nothing than to do something. >> larry: candy crowley, is there a time constraint here? i mean, when is this supposed to come up for a vote at a certain time? are we -- do we have a deadline? >> interesting that he didn't give one. he gave one of august for some votes and didn't get it. there was no deadline by the president, but there's a political deadline here. if he doesn't have something by the end of this year, 2010 looms and it's very, very hard at that point to do anything, because you've got all these people that need to get re-elected. so that's the time line. a political calendar rather than an absolute date. and the other problem is, is the president and the white house knows full well, the longer something like this is out

there, the more it gets shot at. so they want to move this really quickly. and i think it's very clear, from senator baucus saying, by the way, i'm going to have a bill in a week, that that message has gone up to capitol hill, saying, okay, guys, let's speed this up. >> larry: thanks, guys. you'll all be checking in later when anderson cooper hosts this, wolf blitzer and his crew right there in new york. up next, senator john mccain. most people try to get rid of algae, and we're trying to grow it. the algae are very beautiful. they come in blue or red, golden, green. algae could be converted into biofuels... that we could someday run our cars on. in using algae to form biofuels, we're not competing with the food supply. and they absorb co2, so they help solve the greenhouse problem, as well. we're making a big commitment to finding out... just how much algae can help to meet... the fuel demands of the world.

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>> larry: joining us now on capitol hill from the russell rotunda, our friend, senator john mccain, republican of arizona. he was the standard bearer of his party last year and a member of the health, education, labor, and pensions committee. first, your overall impression. how was the speech? >> well, i thought the president is eloquent. i thought he had a lot of passion. i think it was more partisan than i had expected, but -- and there's a lot of questions that remain unanswered. i think, but he did give some more specific aspects of his overall proposal. but small example is that he says if you like your health insurance policy, you'll be able to keep it. the congressional budget office

says that if your employer goes to the health option and the employer -- the health policy that the government is providing and then you are going to lose the policy that you have with your employer. that's 10 million americans, according to the congressional budget office. certainly, there are questions about how you're going to pay for this as well, that will be explored in days to come. >> larry: the president cited one of your proposals, senator, tonight, as he made his case. watch. >> for those americans who can't get insurance today, because they have pre-existing medical conditions, we will immediately offer low-cost coverage that will protect you against financial ruin if you become seriously ill. this was a good idea when senator john mccain proposed it in the campaign, it's a good idea now, and we should all embrace it.

>> larry: that had to move you, did it not? >> yes. and i do believe that it's an important aspect, obviously. we've got to provide available and affordable health care to all americans. and one of the biggest problems is those that have the "pre-existing conditions." and this is, i think, obviously, a viable way to address that issue. i'm glad the president mentioned it. and there are a lot of things we can agree on, larry. there's many things that we can agree on and work together. republicans want reform. we know that the system is broken, particularly medicare. but we are very concerned about the cost, we're very concerned about this "public option." frankly, some tests on medical malpractice reform doesn't get it.

hundreds of billions of dollars have been wasted in defensive medicine and medical malpractice reform, the requirement for it. >> larry: what is wrong -- senator, what is wrong, we have the postal service and fedex. what's wrong with the public option on health? what's wrong with giving the americans, okay, if you can't afford this, we'll give you that. >> well, the postal service is going broke, it has about a $7 billion deficit no matter what fedex does. another point here is will the government option have an unfair advantage? if it doesn't, then it's just one of 1,500 or more health insurance policies available -- health insurance plans available to americans. if it has an unfair advantage, then, obviously, americans are going to gravitate in that direction and private health insurance will be more expensive. so there has to be some

advantage here for people to leave their health insurance policy and that would be a government health option in my view and people would gravitate out of it -- out of public, out of the private health insurance. >> larry: is there any -- is there any good reason, senator, in a government, in a nation this rich, why anyone, anyone, can go without health needs? >> there's no reason why there should not be affordable and available health insurance and health care for all americans. the question is, are you going to have the, quote, public mandate? are you going to have costs which escalate to over $1 trillion and no way to pay for it. despite what the president said tonight, there is still no -- in the estimate of the congressional budget office, a way to pay for this $1 trillion added burden on to the already $9 trillion in deficits we're going to have over the next ten years anyway. it's -- we cannot sustain this kind of deficit. it has to be paid for.

the president pledged to, so far, his numbers don't add up. >> all right. now play politics with me. is he going to get a bill? >> i hope he gets a bill. i hope we can sit down together and do the things that all of us agree on and there are a number of things that we can agree on. and i think the american people, obviously, want that. i don't know what the administration and the democrats will insist on. facts are stubborn things. the bills, so far, have had no bipartisanship associated with it. they were drawn up by democrats and republican amendments were rejected. so there's going to have to be an entire change of atmosphere here in order for us to get something done in a bipartisan basis. >> larry: concerning all the complaints on the right, the president pointed out some tonight, in fact, sarah palin, your vice presidential candidate, raised the death panel issue today in an article in "the wall street journal."

and the president dealt with that, seeming to take a dig at her. waf. >> some of people's concerns have grown out of bogus claims, spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. the best example is the claim, made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but by prominent politicians that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. now, such a charge would be laughable, if it weren't so cynical and irresponsible. it is a lie, plain and simple. >> larry: what did you make of that, senator? did you agree with sarah's -- the former governor's article today? >> oh, i think that the president made an unnecessary comment there. it was partisan in nature. look, the president keeps saying that if you like your health care policy, you can keep it no

matter what. the congressional budget office says you can't. because if the -- >> larry: i know, but did you -- >> because if your employer goes to another -- look, i'm not challenging the president -- i think it was an unnecessary comment and did nothing to contribute to bipartisan dialogue. >> larry: but you don't believe there'll be a death panel, do you? >> no. i do know that portions of the house bill were removed or one of the bills that's winding around here which may have intimated such a thing, but -- and we know there's some questions about some of the manuals in the veterans administration. but, look, instead of doing that, can't we sit down together and work together? that might be a thought. >> larry: one other thing. congressman joe wilson, republican of south carolina, we have found out, was the gentleman, if it can call that, who yelled out "you lie" when the president made a referral to

non-citizens getting coverage of health insurance, illegal aliens. what did you make of that congressman doing that and your thoughts on that subject. >> totally disrespectful, no place for it in that setting or any other and he should apologize immediately. >> larry: senator, thank you so much, as always, for joining us. every time we call on you, you're right there. we appreciate it. >> thank you for having me on, larry. >> larry: senator john mccain, republican of arizona. we're going to continue the debate after this with the presidential adviser, valerie jarrett, from the white house, next. s. well, try to share at least. announcer: with unbeatable prices onarm rich cheese sticks-- game time costs less at walmart. save money. live better. walmart. i've seen first hand how america's dependence on foreign oil threatens our national security. billions in oil profits finding their way to the terrorists we're fighting against. that's why washington needs to pass clean energy legislation.

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where he is on health care reform and the importance of moving forward expeditiously now. >> larry: he laid out a strong claim for the plan tonight. let's listen to a portion of it and get your comment. >> but what we've also seen in these last months is the same partisan spectacle that only hardens the disdain many americans have towards their own government. instead of honest debate, we've seen scare tactics. some have dug into unyielding ideological camps that offer no hope of compromise. too many have used this as an opportunity to score short-term political points, even if it robs the country of our opportunity to solve a long-term challenge. and out of this blizzard of charges and countercharges, confusion has reigned. well, the time for bickering is over. the time for games has passed.

now is the season for action. now is the when we must bring the best ideas of both parties together and show the american people that we can still do what we were sent here to do. now is the time to deliver on health care. now is the time to deliver on health care. >> larry: valerie, the senator john mccain just told us, while he appreciated a lot of the speech and thought it was delivered well, he thought the speech was partisan. >> no, not at all. my goodness, he incorporated one of senator mccain's key provisions that he suggested in the course of the campaign. >> larry: yeah, he appreciated that. >> so it wasn't at all partisan. it was a call to remember who we are. and he talked about the character of our country and he talked about what's at stake here. the many, many millions of americans who are having to worry about whether they have a pre-existing condition and lose their insurance or whether they changed their job or they move or any one of the number of thing that happens to everybody in the course of their life,

they shouldn't have to worry about their health care, not in this country. so when he said, look, let's keep focused on the real issues, let's have an honest debate, there may be substantiative differences of opinion, but what we all agree -- and i think if you survey the american people, everyone agrees, that the status quo is no longer acceptable. we even heard that in the comments from the republicans afterwards. so if you agree to that, then shouldn't we also agree, larry, that we're going to be honest with one another and we're going to have an honest debate and that we're going to keep our focus in what's in the best interest of the american people. is that was his message tonight. >> what's he going to get, do you think, valerie, and when is it going to happen? is there a time constraint here? does it have been by the end of the year? >> we've already made a great deal of progress. i think the president said tonight, 80% agreement. we've had four committees already act on their legislation. we have baucus, who said today, that he expects to have a markup within the next week or so. so we are well on our way. and i think that there is a lot of room for agreement and there's certainly room for incorporating new ideas. he made it very clear tonight

that he put down what his plan -- he put down what he thought was important for the american people in terms of providing stability and security and affordable health care and cutting the costs and keeping everything we do deficit neutral. he put his principles down and his plan down, but he also said, larry, i'm open to new ideas. i'm open to suggestions. i will reach out my hand, as i always have, and i think that's what the american people expect from their president, what they expect from their leaders, and as he said tonight, that's what he expects from congress. >> larry: one other thing, valerie, david gergen said a little earlier that this is a speech that maybe he should have made three months ago. do you agree? >> no. i think the timing was perfect. i think it was important for all of the committees to do their hard work and many people in the chamber, as he said tonight, have been working tirelessly to move us in the right direction of health care reform. a lot of that important work had to get done. and through that process, he heard olt of great ideas, which

he incorporated this evening, and i think it was important for him to let that process work and to reach the point now, as we are entering the home stretch, to really energize everybody, to bring this to closure. we've waited far too long in this country. he gave us a great history lesson, he put it in context and he showed us the direction for the future. >> larry: valerie, thanks so much. we'll be calling on you frequently. >> i hope you do, larry. have a nice evening. thank you. >> larry: you too. we will. valerie jarrett, senior adviser to president obama. we'll be right back with congressman barney frank and ben stein. don't go away. so that's why, you know we've adjusted... ...a lot of the different processes we have in place such as rolling out more innovative products to really meet the needs of our customers. because what might have been good six months ago for them, might not be good now. there's a lot going on right now with helping out customers. one of the unique features that we just brought out recently was actually called add it up. our risk free cd is a very powerful tool that we have for our customers. we're refinancing their mortgages. how are you saving for the future?

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>> larry: as we continue our discussion of the president's address, and i imagine we'll do a lot more on it tomorrow night as well, at the cannon house office building on capitol hill is congressman barney frank, chairman of the house financial services committee. here in los angeles, ben stein, columnist with "fortune" magazine, economist, and a former presidential speech writer. and in new york, john king, anchor of "state of the union with john king" and cnn's chief national correspondent. you first, ben, your overall impression of the speech. >> he's a fine speaker, there's no doubt about that, but i found it a very misleading speech. we're not going to regulate medicine, but somehow we're going to cut hundreds of billions of dollars out. how are they going to do that without regulating medicine? we're not going to regulate medicare, but we're going to cut hundreds of billions of dollars out of medicare, how are they

going to do that? we're not going to come between the patient and the doctor, but regulate medicare, how are we going to do that? i agree in a country as rich as this, though one should go hungry in terms of medical care, but it doesn't seem to me to add up. we've been talking about waste, fraud, and abuse paying for things in washington as long as i've been alive and i'm 64 and it never works. >> larry: but you want everyone to have health care? >> i absolutely do. >> congressman frank, how do you assess the way he did tonight? >> i thought it was an excellent speech. i will say this, i was not, myself, one who thought we had to pay for this entirely within the system. i was glad that he referred to the enormous cost of the iraq war. if we hadn't thought the war in iraq, which i thought was a terrible mistake, we wouldn't be worrying about how to pay for health care. i had one disagreement with him when he said that the deficit issue in america is entirely about health care. it's also about a greatly excessive overdone military. but even beyond that, i do think, yes, there is room for reductions. as herb said -- ben, rather.

sorry, ben, for the generational flicks, i'm old. as ben acknowledged, people have talked about waste and fraud. how are they going to do that, there's the medicare advantage plan, which pays more than other medicare plans. we can cut that back. there is duplication, electronic records can help. i am not convinced that we will find all of the savings that we want. i am convinced that we should not reduce the services under medicare. and i know the president did say, if we cannot achieve this with anti-waste methods in medicare,well find other spending cuts. that may be necessary and i have plenty of places in this federal budget where we can find them so that we can provide that medical care. >> larry: john king, what do you think's going to happen? between these two viewpoints. >> well, i think the most interesting calculation is that, look, the president said he wanted to reach out to republicans today. he said his door was open, but he also said the clock is ticking. and he is proceeding as if he's going to have to do this with only democrats or maybe one or two republicans. if more republicans come on board, the president will be

grateful, but he doesn't expect that, larry. i can tell you from spending some time at the white house earlier this afternoon. the biggest question is, and congressman frank can answer it better than anybody on the program at the moment is, what happens? the president made a strong case for the public option tonight, but what happens two, three, six weeks down the line when the votes are not there in the senate and the president has to go back to the house and say, i want it, you want it, but we're not going to get it. what kind of compromise can they shape and how angry and upset will the liberals be? will they say, we're going to fight you? one told me this weekend, i will walk away, or will they say, you know what, 70%, 80% of what we want is a whole lot better than nothing. >> larry: fair question for congressman frank. >> let me say two things. first of all, i greatly respect john, and you, larry. we're in negotiation, and i can't negotiate with people on television who don't have a vote. nothing personal. but beyond that, i think the president framed it well. the public options is a means to the end of holding down costs, of improving things. i believe the public option is a necessary means to that end, but

there are, people say, other ways you can achieve it. if they can show me ways that without a public option that they can achieve everything else that they talked about, then i would consider voting for it. i am skeptical that they can do that. as they said, we're in a negotiation, and given that, i'll see what happens. >> larry: we got on late tonight, so we're pressed for time. one more quick thing for ben. what do you think is going to happen? >> i think he'll get pretty much everything he wants, except the public option, which is an insurance company killer. if you have a government-run insurance company out there, it doesn't need to make profits, will do everything else an insurance company does but doesn't need to make a profit, it will kill the insurance companies. >> larry: we'll have everybody back. we'll try to devote a full hour to this tomorrow. thanks, congressman frank, thanks, ben, we'll have you back. and always, john king. ben frank -- barney frank, ben stein, john king, host of "state of the union." back with more, right after the

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when you're sick, you go to the doctor for answers. and when you hear scary rumors about health insurance reform being a big government takeover... doctors have the answer again. according to the american medical association, "the health reform plans being debated in congress ensure that health care decisions will be made by you and your doctor--no one else." you choose your own doctor, make your own decisions and you can't be dropped if you get sick, or denied coverage for a pre-existing condition. that's a long way from a government takeover. and what about the claims that health reform will cut medicare benefits? "false" says the non-partisan factcheck.org... health reform maintains and even expands benefits for seniors and focuses on preventing illness before it strikes.

our health care is too important for scare tactics, you deserve the truth. learn more at the factsaboutreform.org >> larry: war got mentioned tonight in that speech, and that's where anderson cooper is, in afghanistan. what's up tonight, anderson? >> we have breaking news out of afghanistan tonight. a new york times reporter freed in a daring helicopter assault by british forces. one soldier was killed. details on that. also, what u.s. marines here are up against.

we'll talk to marines on the front lines fight this war. and a very difficult situation it is. dr. sanjay gupta is with the so-called dustoff crew, an elite medical crew called in. every second counts, most of the time they have only one hour to save lives. we'll show you their work. and we'll be covering the president's address to congress. did he convince americans that health care was needed? those stories and a lot more live from afghanistan tonight, larry. >> larry: thanks, anderson. that's 10:00 eastern, 7:00 pacific. when we come back, some moments with congressman ron paul, republican of texas, himself a doctor. dr. shafd shina, who was barack obama's personal physician for 22 years. and dr. nancy neilson, immediate past president of the ama, right after this. that keeps you awake.quiets thn and helps you sleep, in a non-habit forming way.

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>> larry: we're so limited in time, we'll have our guests back shortly. congressman paul, did the president change your mind in any way tonight? >> no, not quite. he firmed up my beliefs that there's no way this will be paid for. you know, at the end of his speech, he said we're not going to have one dollar of debt

coming from this. there's never been a medical program by government that wasn't two or three times more expensive than they claimed it would be. so he said it was a little under a trillion. i predict when this is over, it will cost $2 trillion or $3 trillion. he said he wasn't going to take any money out of medicare. he couldn't. it's practically broke itself. all these government programs are essentially bankrupt. so i don't see any practical outcome from all this proposal. this is just going to move the bankruptcy of this country rapidly along. >> larry: dr. shina, you're a strong proponent of a national health program involving the government. do you think you're going to get it? >> i think it's still possible, but i think physicians are going to have to organize to get it. $400 billion a year spent on private health insurance administration. under his program, this will probably increase.

it's 1/3 of every dollar spent in health care. he dismissed single payer quickly, saying it would disrupt health care. a patient who is 64, on private insurance, turns 65, there's no disruption in health care. private health care interferes with the practice of medicine constantly. i had an example today, which was a disaster. medicare never interferes. the health lobby has spent a quarter of a billion dollars in lobbying over the past six months and i think they're getting their money's worth if you watched the republicans tonight. >> larry: dr. neilson, where do you stand in all this? >> well, we think he set the stage for significant health care reform, and we think it's time to seize the opportunity. people are suffering in this country. if we didn't need insurance, it would be fine if people didn't need insurance and we went back to the old way where patients just paid their doctor.

but that doesn't work when your daughter gets leukemia. we really have to share the risk, so he set the stage. we are hoping that people of good will on both sides of the aisle will really get down to work and recognize that we need to get something done. come together, compromise, and get some meaningful reform. >> larry: are you saying that the ama generally approves basically of his ideas? >> well, if you think about it, larry, what he did is set out three major goals. one of them was to stabilize those who have insurance right now. that's a laudable goal. he said the second goal was to provide affordable health insurance for those who don't have it. there aren't many people who would disagree with that. the third was to stem the rising health care cost, and as a country we have to do that. if you remember, the one area where he got thi