tapes were deliberately misleading have been drowned out in the clamor. hello, again, everybody. i'm rick sanchez, this is the next generation of news, this is a conversation, it's not a speech, it's your turn to get involved. and before we do anything, as you just saw, we have got breaking news that's going on right now. information has just come into cnn, we have learned that a letter has been delivered to the obama administration. this is a letter from no less than seven former directors of the cia. you know what i can do, i can list them for you, it's james schlesinger. it's william webster, james woolsey, john deutch, porter goss, michael hayden. these men are asking the obama administration to stop investigating allegations of torture during the bush administration. back in august, the current attorney general, eric holder, he appointed independent counsel

to dig into evidence of potential abuse, so this is what they are now responding to. it's certainly something that's going to be taken seriously the administration. we hope to get their reaction, in the meantime, there are another story that we're following for you on this day. you have been talking about the campus of yale university, the attack there, your e-mails, your tweets, your commenting on my blog, almost all of you speaking about the brutality in the killing of annie le, but also wondering if the same thing could happen where you work? yes it could. you know people are calling this workplace violence. what about the possibility of a personal or emotional relationship between this man, raymond clark, and annie le. pat brown a criminal profiler believes this is the result of a man being obsessed over a woman. i heard you say that no one just snaps like this. what do you mean. >> what happens in these instances, people like to jump and say, the guy snapped.

he was a great guy yesterday, he's always been a great guy. no one's ever found a thing wrong with the guy and suddenly he's a killer. i can't imagine any circumstance that i would do such a thing, kill somebody, except maybe if they're in the middle of raping my child, i might shoot them in the head, if they were in the process of doing it. i wouldn't go, oh, gee, you didn't deliver my mail on time so i'm going to kill the mailman. this is isn't about the cleanliness of a cage, this is about him. >> it just sickens me because when something like this happens the people they're attacking, are our mothers, my daughter, my wife. it's incredible. i have been drawn to the fact and i'm wondering what your take is on this. i have been braun to the fact in this case that he had sent her a message on the very same day he met her, which happens to be just a couple of days before she was scheduled to get married.

what do you make of that. >> well, we're not going to know all of the actuality of everything unless something comes out that we don't know because he's not going to tell us the truth. his defense lawyers are not going to tell us the truth. we have seen some issues in the past, we don't have them all substantiated, we have the ex-girlfriend in high school said that he forced sex on her, and she was terrified of him. we have heard some stories of neighbors that she was very controlling. my guess is that he wanted to get annie in that room with him, possibly because he was in love with her and she was about to go marry another guy. psychopaths have to pick on somebody smaller. here's a brilliant, bright woman. she's like the trophy, the cheerleader, i'm not going to get her.

she doesn't give me the time of day, i have been thinking about her, she never thinks about me. annie le doesn't have to know what's going on in his little mind. the day before her wedding, see? somebody else always gets the girl and i don't. >> this is like property, i own it, and if i can't have it, i'm going to destroy it. that's really scary, it leads us to this whole notion of fatal attraction, and if we know that he did send her in fact a message, he set up a meeting with her. >> right. >> which makes us think there was something more going on here. >> most people are -- first of all, this is his job, he's spoedsed to clean the cages, and secondly, there's lots of other people in the department he could be angry at. >> you're absolutely right. i can't possibly buy that this man snapped because the floor was dirty or the cages were dirty. i don't buy it. >> back in high school, he joined an asian club.

if he is psychopathic, he did it for a reason. my guess is he joined that gr-- asian people are going to be sweeter, nicer, they're going to control them better. it's my guess he went there to find women. and annie le happens to be asian. and that's his little prize that he wanteds and he can't have it. that's why serial killers kill too, they say i'm losing and i'm going to prove myself, and when you're strangling that woman, you didn't respect me, and you didn't give me the time of day, but when you're looking in your eyes, they know you're god. annie le is not going to have any of the things she wanted to have because i'm going to kill her. >> especially when you take us through the strangling as an act. i want to ask you something, because we're going to do another story later.

this is another case of a man who police say beat up an african-american woman. this whole idea of men beating women, those of us who have been taught and raised to never lift a hand against a woman. what is this all about? why would they do that? >> it's interesting. i think it's just the human condition. i think all humans, if they don't feel good about themselves, want to take it out on somebody else. but you can't take it out on somebody that's the same size as you. men take it out on other men. women, take it out on little children. some people say, that woman, she just hates men, i had that e-mail already come in today. i'm like, no, there's a lot of wonderful men out there who treat women extremely well. but when certain men feel like they can't measure up. they'll befriend men, from i hear, ray clark was just wonderful to the guys he was around when he was in high school, but the woman he was with, said, wait a minute, he

forced sex on me. i was scared of him. so the men he was sucking up to and the women, he's saying they have to kowtow to me and how come they're not doing it. . democrats in nine short months have made us look like ebenezer scrooge on welfare. >> there you go, it's called the values voters summit. we're covering this summit today. and it's an important and admiral event. but is it a political event? also she was viciously beaten in front of her small daughter, now new developments, this is a story i mentioned just a while ago with pat brown, there are new developments in what authorities are investigating as a hate crime on an african-american woman at a cracker barrel. we'll will all over it. also remember the after show today after the show at 4:00.

welcome back, i'm rick sanchez, i want you to take a look at this guy right here. that's troy west, he's accused of beating and screaming racial slurs at a woman, a mom, when she asked him to be careful when he pushed the door and almost hit her daughter, her 7-year-old. this was at a cracker barrel restaurant right outside of atlanta. reporters have been flocking to this town in georgia and talking to the locals there. watch what his cousin had to say. >> if you asked me why he hit a

woman, if you ask me, he was provoked. it might not come out that way, but i have never known troy to hit anybody. >> reporter: but does that make it okay? >> that's everybody's own deal, but if a woman huts herself in a man's shoes, sometimes i would say yeah. >> if a woman puts herself in a man's shoes, sounds a lot like the conversation we had just moments ago with pat brown. and you got to love the swing. shortly after victim tasha hill and her attorney sat down and talked to me on this show yesterday, cracker barrel has given us a new statement and we thank them for it. take a look at this map. cracker barrel has restaurants in 41 states across the united states and it says it has banned troy west from all of its eateries. for life. how they'll do this, we don't know, but cracker barrel goes on to say it will continue to cooperate with authorities, because, quote, we want justice to be served quickly. the next helping is a court

hearing next thursday. i'm going to serve the truth up to the perpetrator of what is really a bald-faced lie. fox news, i hope that you're listening. with little responsibility, zero accountability. our parents telling us what to do... how to behave. now, all of a sudden, we're there, in that role, at that time in our lives where everyone and everything is depending on us. it's a scary feeling, but it's also a good one. especially when i'm confident someone's there for me. but now that i'm breathing better with advair... i can enjoy the zoo with my grandkids. (announcer) for people with copd including chronic bronchitis, emphysema, or both, great news. advair helps significantly improve lung function.

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i welcome you back, i'm rick sanchez in the world headquarters here of cnn. there's something i got to tell you now, if you watch this show every day as i mentioned a while ago, i usually don't suffer fools gladly. especially the fools that perpetuate falsehoods. today thousands of you enthusiasmed through the -- enough is enough. and, yes, i'm talking to you, fox news. you, who claim to be fair and balanced, at what, i wonder? i don't know, but i've got a couple of ideas. fox news ran a color ad today, it asks, how did nbc, cnbc,

msnbc and cnn miss this story? they are saying we did not cover this story. they are using a line to try and divide people into camps and, you know, americans are starting to get tired of this. look at the bottom of the ad there, that says we cover all the news. really? you do? what? we don't? that's an offense to myself and to my colleagues who risked their lives for our viewers in iraq and afghanistan and around the world to break the news. they're actually telling people that we didn't cover a rally on washington. really? roger, roll the tape. >> a march and rally happening in washington. our paul stein hauser is there with who appears to be a whole lot of friends gathering around you now. >> about two hours from now, they're going to march behind us down pennsylvania avenue to the u.s. capitol, and that's where

they'll gather at the west side of the capital. >> am i crazy or did i just watch cnn's paul steinhauser covering the story? >> we check in with cnn's kate bolduan live at the capital. >> there's so many people stuck here trying to make it. these people are all coming from freedom plaza. >> that was cnn's kate bolduan. here's another one. >> joined now by cnn radio capitol hill correspondent lisa dejar din. >> what do you think of congressman joe wilson? so there are people here who strongly support congressman wilson and many of them are right here. >> call me crazy, but that sure looked like our cnn radio's lisa dejardin.

30 rallies along the tea party express rout from coast to coast the last couple of weeks, here it is. >> jim spellman traveled with the tea party express as it made its way across the country. the. >> the bulk of the people who are there for low taxes, less government control, and there really is an element that's got these outlandish conspiracy theories about death camps and it's not just a couple of people on the edges. >> all right, i want you to see more proof now and this is really just an unbelievable coincidence that i want you to see. you see that picture in the ad that they took out? okay, pay attention to that picture right there on the right. that's the ad that they took out saying we didn't cover the event. all right, now, keep an eye on that picture right there, you see the canadian flag? that's on their ad, see the canadian flag right there at the bottom? let me show you this, see the thing on the left now? that's our tower cam shot of the event.

that we used repeatedly throughout those shows. funny how you can say that we didn't cover an event by using that picture, that picture that looks an awful lot like our tower cam shot, doesn't it? and you used it in your ad saying that we didn't cover the story. by the way, if you want even more proof of our coverage, maybe you should just watch our own shows. here's a good one you should watch. this is a show on fox news called "the o'reilly factor." here's bill o'reilly doing a segment called reality check. >> cnn covered the anti-obama protests of course, but ran into a little trouble. >> cnn covered the event. there it is. this is bill o'reilly showing us covering a story you say we didn't cover. let me give that to you again. that was bill o'reilly showing cnn's coverage of a story that

fox news says we didn't coffer. hmm. can you see -- can you say reality check mate? >> cnn has we covered covered the anti-obama protests, of course, but ran into a little trouble. >> here's the fact, we did cover the event. what we didn't do is promote the event. just like when thousands marched on washington to protest the war in iraq, we covered it as well, probably less than we covered this event. but we didn't promote it. bottom line is, we do cover the news. and we did extensively cover this event. we didn't promote the event, that's not what real news organizations are supposed to do. we covered the event. i would invite you to look into that distinction between those two words, promote and cover. cover is kind of like a fair and

balanced way of doing things, you get it? you might want to look into that. it's about letting americans make up their own minds, let me cut to the chase, when thousands of americans showed up at the nation's capitol to protest big government, we covered it, with four correspondents, two satellite trucks, multiple live interviews, lawmakers on the record and conversations with attendees. by the way, we put a call into fox news for a comment and we expect an apology. but we're still waiting. let me address the fox news network now. perhaps the most current way that i can, by quoting somebody who recently used a very pithy phrase. two words. it's all i need. you lie. these days, when you have to spend,

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with our add it up program. just sign up and use your bank of america debit or credit card when you shop online. it's one of the many ways we make saving money in tough times a whole lot easier. >> cnn needs to put out an ad, how did fox news miss all the other networks that covered that same news. and let's go over to myspace. hey, rick, nail them, a lack of integrity is so pervasive in our culture and is a trend that

should be reversed. there's a saying that goes something like this, when you've got a man down, just keep kicking. today a.c.o.r.n. is continuing to get kicked. in fact now it's getting down right brutal. mike johanns has an amendment slamming a.c.o.r.n. and the amendments passed overwhelmingly. i myself, peppered, prepared and executed what was a very confrontational interview with the ceo of a.c.o.r.n., where bertha lewis clearly took issue with some of the questions i asked and responded in kind. >> the video is still there and we still see these people doing and saying these things, so you could say anything you want to say about your attackers. but in the end, the evidence is what's hurting the credibility of your conversation. how do you respond to that? >> well, i'll repeat it again in case you didn't understand me the first time. >> okay.

>> these people were terminated, we took immediate action, regardless, it is unacceptable and never met our professional standards. >> all right, it's hard for me as a journalist to not press her after seeing the obvious, obvious lapses of judgment and ethics by her workers caught on camera, telling a filmmaker posing as a pimp how to hide his money from the government. and the kicks to the ahead have come in a steady stream. yesterday house republicans attached an a.c.o.r.n. amendment to a student loan amendment. look who joined in, liberals like patrick kennedy, john conyers, george miller, patrick kennedy? all three voted against a.c.o.r.n., along with 169 other democrats. earth to a.c.o.r.n., the fact is your days are starting to look look they could possibly be numbered. those are the facts. that's the news. but as wrong as a.c.o.r.n.'s

workers were in that videotape and with as much heat as they're getting, as much money as they're losing, should we not also ask questions of the filmmakers who seem to have bought them down? that's an important question, questions like where is the rest of that video that a.c.o.r.n. says will actually exonerate them? questions like could you have possibly have misrepresented yourself as something you were not in those videos? why did you report on account of a murder without checking it out. these are all things that would have cost me my job had i done them working here at this news consideration. in fact the network that is showing this video the most actually castigated dan rather for doing something that could be argued was perhaps even less than this. but here's the final an most important question, if you stand by your decisions, filmmakers, your reporting and your video, then why won't you come forward and answer questions? we have invited you.

the picture of a.c.o.r.n. workers giving illegal advice is wrong, and it has as such been reported. but one can't help but to begin to wonder what else may be wrong with this picture. my blog is cnn.com/ricksanchez. coming up, the values on voters summit. stay with us. in new aveeno positively ageless multidefense. a combination of a high spf and powerful antioxidants... designed to reduce lines and wrinkles in just 4 weeks. new from aveeno.

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only meineke let's you choose your service, choose your savings. like an oil change for just $19.95. meineke. when these folks get together, they don't just have a meeting, they hold a summit. it's a values voter summit. you would guess that these people vote on the basis of values, right? but what kind of values? ken blackwell is speaking at the summit. he's going to do a fine job, he serves on the committee at the national rifle association, he's a senior fellow at the national research council and he's a former republican candidate for the governor of ohio. i think his mother would be proud of me now because i gave him all the props he could expect. mr. black well, how are you?

>> i'm doing just fine. >> what do we mean by values? what is a values summit? >> our democracy, our culture is based on some fundamental values, one of the most salient being freedom. so when you have freedom at risk from the size, the growth and intrusion of government, you have a pivotal values issue that should be discussed and you have a clash in values between those who believe in big government and those who believe the individual being at the center of our society. that's a discussion that should be discussed civilly and clearly. >> i agree. i don't think -- in fact i would be hard pressed to find anybody who listened to you say that who wouldn't say, you know what? i like that guy. that makes sense, that's what we need to do in this country. so given that, is this values summit a political event?

>> that's a good question, it's a political event with a small p, it's not a political event in terms of political parties. but -- >> are you sure it's not a small r? because, man, i'm telling you, mr. black well, i'm looking at this thing and i don't see any democrats on here. i only see republicans. i mean, i got the names there, it's one after the other. look at this, newt gingrich, mike huckabee, bobby jindal, sarah palin, rob paul, mike patton, mitt romney, rick santorum, and i could go on and on and on. >> the fact is that the issue of who the presidential candidate will be for the democrats in 2012 is a settled issue, unless you know something that i don't know. >> well, it all depends on how

this guy does in the next couple of years, but go on. >> on the other hand, the republicans are vetting candidates. last year, in 2008, all of the candidates from all of the parties were invided. the democrats chose not to come, but it wasn't because they weren't offered around opportunity to speak. >> that's fair. >> and so that's where we are on that. >> listen, i'm glad you're felling me that. would you think that an organization like this, and i've got to tell you, you are talking about things that i agree with, and i think that i can speak for the great majority of americans when they say they agree with a lot of what you're talking about, why is it in this country that we talk about these things in groups? why do we segregate ourselves in social atmospheres, in churches all over this country? why can't we come together and

resolve things, if you know what i mean? >> i know exactly what you mean and all of the town halls that we have sponsored have been open. we haven't just extended invitations to people who agree with us. we engage in civil debate all across the country in neighborhoods after neighborhoods. and i would suggest that this is not the only forum in which these big policy issues are going to be discussed and whether or not the government should take over large segments of our economy. >> but you think -- i don't mean to interrupt. but before we're out of time, do you think that it's uncomfortable for people? let's assume that i'm a die hard church republican. and say i go to church and all of the bumper stickers are republican this, democratic party. i would almost feel a little uncomfortable. much the same way that people

have different opinions or maybe isn't a republican would feel uncomfortable walking into a town hall rally where you seeho the president as hitler, et cetera. i'm always saying that we create barriers for ourselves, do we not? >> i don't think so. i have chris crossed the country and i have stood in churches yes the parishioners are mostly democrats. these are big issues. change is affected in this country in terms of public policy, either in the letting ti legislative bodies, in the courts, in direct action on the streets or the engagement in the heart of our fellow citizens. and that's where we as a family research council come in. we believe in engaging folks in the conversation that matters,

the conversations that matter this in this country to engage their hearts. >> i tell you, i think you and i agree. most americans agree on more issues than they disagree with. but somehow, we create these polarized groups where we keep each other from discussing these things and talking them out and i think when guys like you and maybe some of the other leaders there get together like mr. bennett for example, and we all do this, we probably end up being a heck of a lot better country, don't you think? >> i think you're absolutely right and i have found that on a personal level, when i engage bishop jerry jackson who's a registered democrat, we can disagree on some issues, but we find consensus on some big issues. >> absolutely. >> and that's what we have to do all across the country. >> absolutely, i'm with you, amen, 100%. >> kenneth blackwell, it's always a pleasure, good to see

you. say hi to your mom. >> i will do, take care. >> there's a baby in there! >> oh, what a story, we showed you this video when it happened in july. it's a pair of brothers safing a 5-year-old from a burning suv. we have got a new development in the story that we're going to be sharing with you. also the young lab researcher killed days before her wedding. we're going to update you on our top stories. stay with us.

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all right, just now, i'm being -- as a matter of fact, as you're coming to me, i'm hearing my producer talking in my ear and he's telling me that this care case which we have been

reporting on since monday has es indicate lated to the point where we have been reporting on it in the last couple of days on new activity takes place in denver, as in even more raids. and now there's breaking news on this and jean meserve has got it for us. jean, what's going on with this story? >> nazi, who's the principal person they have been talking to here in denver is still inside this fbi building behind us with his attorney, this is the third day he's been in there. on previous days they have gone in the front door and they have taken some questions as they went in. today they went in a side door, no opportunity to ask him questions. and cnn has learned that this investigation did begin before mr. nazi took a trip to new york this weekend. the fbi was going around talking to owners of storage facilities. one of our affiliates kusa

talked to one of the owners. >> they were looking for a certain individual, if he rented in here and he hadn't. and we just talked for a few minutes and then this week, they came back with four pictures, one of the same individuals that's being interviewed by the fbi right now. >> reporter: so the first visit was last week, a second visit this week. he says four pictures, one of mr. zazi. one of the other three was a man, two of the pictures he says were of women. we don't know what they found when they talked to the owners of other storage facilities, but we would presume that would take place, it would be a normal investigative thing that we would have happen, when you're talking about explosiveses because someone could have hidden explosives somewhere away from their home and that's why they would have been looking there. >> my thanks to you for keeping

us up to date on this thing. in the meantime, we're getting some unsettling news here about a very important voice in the united states. this is news that's just coming in to me now, in fact i'm just going to read it as it was sent to me. we're getting news that irving kristol. you know bill kristol, from one of america's leading conservative voices has died at the age of 89. i ving kristol is bill kristol's father, he's considered one of the founders of the ne-yo conservative. i'm reading from cnn wires to you. but the information is that irving kristol has passed on, he was 89 years old. be right back.

two pictures, one old and one new. occasionally we're going to see video of some tragic events and wonder why didn't the person who was shooting it put the camera down and just go and help? well that's not what we're talking about today. today it's about people who did help. and the small boy who is alive because of it. let's start fotos. we showed you the first part of this story when it happened in july. let me set the scene for you. milwaukee, wisconsin, an suv hits a tree, flips and bursts into flames. bystanders help the woman and two-year-old girl to safety. but a 5-year-old is trapped. two offduty firefighters, brothers, happen to be close enough to help. and they do. i'll let you see it. and then i'll explain it. go ahead, roll some of this for the viewers. >> there's a baby in there!

>> you hear what he says there? there's a baby in there. that was john and joel richland pulling 5-year-old david harper over of the burning vehicle. >> there's a baby in there! >> david was rushed to the hospital with major burns, now that happened in july, david has spent the intervening time being treated and we'll continue to follow his recovery. next foto for us is this. that's david, he was released from the hospital yesterday. this image is only possible because strangers put themselves in danger to help him. god bless them, thank god, look at him. can you imagine, he survived that scene i just showed you? and guess what, david's father says that the two firemen who rescued his son have become close family friends.

are you fired up? ready to go? fired up? ready to go? >> fired up and ready to go. the president speaks publicly just about every day, this weekend he's going to be all over your television once again, which raises the question, is he overexposed? or overexposing himself? or is it just right? tricia murphy is going to help us answer that question. and then today, a first for this program, when i am talking about, stick around. i'll tell you what it is when i come back. some lunch. you hungry? yeah. me too. (door crashes in) (broadview alarm) (gasp and scream) go! go! go! go! go! go! (phone rings) hello? this is mark with broadview security. is everything okay? no. someone just tried to break in.

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. and there you go, we welcome you

back, today is the first official day of something we're doing, we're going to be pretty excited about it. it's our first day of our inside the conversation tour. we want to invite you, if you want to come in here and be a part of our show, i know we have twittered with you, we have myspaced with you and we have facebooked with you, but we want you to come in and be a part of our show. i'm giving you information on my blog so you can call the number and get on here. in the meantime, i want to share with you now one of the comments we got on the comments i made moments ago on what's going on with a full-page ad on fox news. all new stations do this, some worse than others, but it's up to you, the individual, to decide what you believe. i choose cnn, they have fact check sites available if you really want to know who is telling the truth. we thank you for that. we do believe that that's important as well. and i'll be back with patricia

murphy, and is the president overexposed in just a moment. there's murphy. how are you? >> good. >> stand by for news, okay? because you are... ...clown, yes? female valve: come, you hit me again and i break you. male valve: oh, you messed with wrong pipe now, car. ha, ha trust me...i have to live with her. announcer:accidents are bad. but geico's good with guaranteed repairs through auto repair express.

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to find a way to eat for a budget which is not too expensive with good food. >> reporter: eric ripert says it's all about doing what works for you. >> a chicken is very inexpensive. instead of buying the chicken already cut or cooked, you buy whole. and therefore you save a lot of money. if you want something healthy and something inexpensive, you have to think seasonal. if you want to eat tomatoes in january, it's very expensive. now if in january you eat root vegetables, if you make a soup, it's going to be very inexpensive. >> reporter: so how does this french chef stay healthy himself surrounded by topnotch cuisine all yearlong. >> i have a little bit of chocolate of good quality. i leave my house around 10:00. and i walk through the streets of new york, takes about 40 to

45 minutes. it keeps me in a certain good health and in shape. >> reporter: the bottom line says ripert. >> i'm a strong believer that you can do a lot of things in terms of eating, which is you can burger, you can eat chocolate, you can have a little here and there. but again, you have to be in quantities that are controlled. and you have to compensate with exercise. >> reporter: dr. sanjay gupta, cnn, reporting. this is one way of getting vitamins and minerals. this is another. new total blueberry pomegranate cereal gives you 100% of the daily value of 12 essential vitamins and minerals.

plus the bold new taste of blueberries and pomegranate with crispy whole grain flakes and crunchy oat clusters. total, a truly delicious way to get vitamins and minerals. how are you getting 100%? visit totalcereal.com and get a free sample. welcome back. i'm rick sanchez from the world headquarters of cnn. you turn on the tv this week it'll be hard to miss president obama. he's on a full-scale blitz to sell his health care reform plan. doing talk shows on five different channels, including cnn sunday. we're looking forward to it. we're not saying we're not. he's also going to be on david letterman monday night. patricia murphy's good enough to join us now. you'll wonder, though. if it comes to a point where the president could be overexposed. thereby lessening the impact of his message. you say what? >> i say you have to look at what happened over the summer

when obama was really quite underexposed on health care. and his numbers went off a cliff. he went from 70% approval to under 50%. he was really quiet on health care reform. he was letting congress take the lead and that ended up being a detrimental strategy. so what he needs to do now even if he risks being overexposed. he has to better explain health care to people, help them understand it's going to make their health care better and not worse. those poll numbers are still looking really bad for him. so he still has a big job to do and he's the most popular person pushing health care reform right now. he can't leave it to pelosi, can't leave it to harry reid. >> would you not agree if you do too many of these events, though, after a while you start looking like a glory hog, a hot dog, media -- over media exposed. you've heard the terms about people who run to television cameras when they see that little red button come on. >> well, sure, he is the president and again he does have

this huge problem that most people -- and i'll give you a number that should scare the white house quite a bit. only 22% of americans think that health care reform is going to improve their own health care. that is never going to fly. no member of congress is going to vote for this bill if they're in a tough reelection in their opinion. if they've got numbers like that back home. >> but i hear people all the time. listen, patricia, i hear people all the time say what a great communicator this guy is. i think he's certainly given some speeches that have been great. but if he were such a great communicator, why can't he get simple principles across to the american people on something like this? you know, for example, 30% of the money that we spend is going right to insurance companies rather than to the care that we need to receive. that's a pretty simple idea. i get that. how come we're not hearing that? >> well, one huge problem he's got, what he's proposing is a massive overhaul of a really complicated system. it's all very, very confusing. and most people are relatively happy with their own health care. so he's having to convince a huge number of people that what's going to happen in a giant change is not going to

adversely affect them. and, again, the numbers here. the numbers are really what's killing him on this. the numbers just don't add up. it's not so much that he's speaking too frequently. he's just not saying anything that's particularly convincing to tell people that once we have this overhaul, once we insure 30 million more people that the deficit won't go up. it's not how frequently they're getting the message, it's just they're not buying it right now. >> have you ever seen and -- i know you're young and you haven't experienced that many presidents. >> not saying anything. >> no, you and i have talked and we've gotten to know each other over time, i know you have a depth for these kinds of things and a good take on history. have you ever seen a president that's had to deal with as much direct animosity. not just from huge groups of people, but from direct media, as well? >> no president has ever been exposed to the kind of media -- just the technology has changed so much. it is right in this president's face and right in americans'

faces. and listen, there was more than enough animosity toward jfk, for example, when he was trying to desegregate the schools. there has been a lot of hatred for a lot of presidents in the past, even george bush. he was burned in effigy more than once across this country. so there's always been hatred. but the it's being broadcast. >> nobody was harder on bill clinton than cnn was. you couldn't turn on the channel without seeing monica lewinsky's picture. is it not the case now maybe more than ever, i don't want to put words in your mouth, the media is more ideologically based and those who are in the media who are enemies of this president or his party, just say it that way. >> yeah, the media is certainly more ideologically based. that sells commercials for a lot of tv stations, a lot of broadcast networks, figuring out

that's how they're going to sell more commercials. but listen, something that anybody who is on the internet, anybody who writes on the internet experiences this. there is a lot of hate in -- on the internet. there is a lot of hate that comes out in comments. you're hearing from people who used to just be unfortunately just be in their basements. now they have an internet connection and a lot have hit that lot. a lot of what was in the back corners of people's communities is coming out front and center. >> well, and that's fine, but truth is important, as well. and i'll give you the example. my calling out of fox news earlier today. when i said, in fact, what they had said in that ad in the "washington post" was a lie. do we need to be doing more of that? would you agree? >> we have to be doing more of it. because people crave information and they crave reliable information. i'm not really convinced that americans need to have other people's opinions lumped on to them. they just need reliable information that they can turn to and form their own opinions. and you can't form a reliable opinion of your own if