clark well before annie le's body was found. they started tracking him the night before. on sunday, the day the body was found, i'm told ray clark was playing softball on that sunday and detectives were in the crowd, making sure he didn't flee, watching his every move. at first, dr. phil, they didn't want him to know that they were tracking him and then as time went on they did want him to. they stood outside his apartment building, i'm told, and let their badges show so he knew there were more than half a dozen detectives throughout watching his every move. they were hoping that maybe he would come out and talk to them, dr. phil. >> randi, have we learned anything about the relationship between these two before? was there e-mail contact? do we have any history of them interacting that we know about? >> well, we know he was not a student there. the suspect in this case was not a student here at yale. he was a lab technician, the low man on the totem pole, keeping track of the animals that annie le, the victim in this case, and her team were using for

research. she was doing diabetes and cancer research. he reportedly, accord to some media reports did text her having to do with the condition of the cages that her mice were in. but as far as their relationship, it's really unclear even at this point, faculty members say they saw each other in the hallway but just how much they had to do with each other is still unclear, even tonight, the chief of police saying a motive for this case and for this murder may never be known. so a lot of questions, phil, tonight. >> i worked in a rat lab when i was a graduate student back in texas. and i find it odd that a lab technician that comes in in the evenings or whatever and cleans up would have the phone number of a student there. do we have any idea how or why he knew this person? >> you know, to be honest with you, a lot of us were talking about this, even when this first happened. there is no indication how he may have gotten it or how well he knew annie le in this case.

there's been a lot of talk about whether or not they had a relationship and maybe he knew her personally or more personally. the chief of police in new haven said that was not true, there was no romantic relationship. maybe in a lab like that there were postings for the staff or postings for the lab technicians of phone numbers in case of an emergency or somebody needed to be reached. but still, no real clear word on exactly how he had her phone number and why he may have been texting her. >> well, it is a puzzle and the question is who is the real raymond clark? joining us from new haven is thomas kaplan, editor and chief of the "yale daily news." we welcome criminal profiler pat brown who's in washington. let me start with you, thomas. have we learned anything more about the relationship between the two or how he would know her or how he would have her phone number? >> well, it's a great question. i think what is thought right now is perhaps they did have some contact in the laboratory,

given that annie worked with these mice and raymond clark, he took care of them. it seem that's the only way they came into contact. there have been reports of e-mails or perhaps text messages between them, but clearly no romantic link according to the police, but it is kind of a mystery what the contact was and what their professional relationship was like. >> is there any buzz around the lab now about what kind of employee this guy was? i mean, some suggested maybe he was highly controlling and this was kind of his fiefdom. what are you learning just from the buzz around the lab? >> yeah. there have been those media reports saying he was a control freak, he was very territorial, very protective of his laboratory, but according to yale officials, raymond clark's supervisor says he's had no disciplinary problems, no problems in the lab, no problems working with other researchers, so it's kind of a perplexing issue right now. no one knows whether to believe the stories from folks who know him saying he might be a control freak, or the story from the

supervisor saying, no, no problem here, he's been a fine employee. >> well, criminal profiler pat brown is with us also. pat, is this a case of workplace violence? what is the motive here? is anything being discovered that gives some insight to this? >> well, dr. phil, everybody's been talking about how this is workplace violence, and it really bothers me, because, yes, this did occur at the workplace, but incidents like this occur everywhere. we have courthouse incidents where ex-husbands shoot their wives and we have women being murdered in parks. we don't call that courthouse violence and park violence. we call it violence against women. and in this particular case, we don't know the motive, and as the police say, we may never, because he's not going to tell us and his defense attorney is going to make up some garbage that's not going to be true to get him off on some kind of snap -- you know, i snapped and went crazy plea. but we can start looking back on his history. and in the days to come, we'll have people start coming out, we'll talk about what happened in high school

when his buddies said, we liked that guy, but his girlfriend says, yeah, but he forced me to have sex. and this time now, we're talking six years. what happened? did he not go on to college? why is he a lab tech cleaning rat cages? and did he have an obsession with this woman, that was way above him, did he want her, but she was like the beauty queen that he could never get. and he was trying too high to get something, she wouldn't give him the time of day and it ticked him off? >> well, we're going to take a break right now. pat, i've got 100 questions for you, so stick right in there. forensic experts join us with their insights about what evidence is known whenever we come back. i'm ed whitacre, the new chairman of general motors. before i started this job, i admit, i had some doubts. probably a lot like you. but i like what i found. i think you will too. car for car, when compared to the competition,

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we're back with thomas kaplan, editor in chief of the yale "daily news," criminal profiler, pat brown, and famed forensic expert, dr. henry lee, professor of forensic science at the university of new haven and the author of "cracking cases: the science of solving crimes." pat brown, let me come back to you right away here. because you alluded to something before we were on the break. we do have a report that in 2003 when clark was a high school senior, his then girlfriend told police that he had forced her to have sex with him and confronted her when she said she wanted to break up. now, she didn't press charges. what does this mean to you as a profiler about understanding this behavior that he's now accused of?

>> well, that's a pretty scary behavior. of course, we don't have any proof that it's true. maybe a he said/she said, but it apparently was taken pretty seriously by the police, at least. and you have to wonder what kind of guy does this kind of thing. what kind of man forces sex on a woman or what kind of man won't let the woman go? and there's something else very fascinating. at that point, he joined an asian club. if he turns out to be the right guy, and we all think he probably is, with all the evidence coming up, but if he committed this crime, he's not the kind of person that has a lot of empathy for other people and wants to do a lot of charity work. so why'd he join this asian club? is it to look for women? because a lot of american guys think, those american women are too tough, too controlling. if i can get myself an asian girl, hey, i've heard they're easier, easier to control and they're smaller little packages and maybe i can have some luck with them. isn't it odd that he picks annie le to come into the lab that day. my guess is he did have a thing for her and it's the thing he's

had with women all along. he wants women to control and gets angry and feels rejected when he can't have them. >> so you don't think it's a coincidence that this happened just a few days before her wedding? >> absolutely not. i think that he might have been, you know, watching her and a lot of these stalker types, the fantasy is going on in their head and sometimes the victim has no clue what they're thinking. they just keep watching and watching and thinking, i could have that girl and why can't i have that girl? and then, suddenly, he realizes, you know, she's picking some other guy, she's going off with him and i'm never going to have that girl. it's like the 50-year-old guy at the bar with the big gut and looking over there at the 25-year-old college girl and wanders over there and says, hey, babe, you want to go home, and she's like, are you kidding, and he gets real angry because he can't get her. but of course she's not going to go with him. she's not at the same level and he says, she's rejecting me. and that's what we have sometimes with people that aren't doing too well in life. they look too high, they want the cheerleader an they can't get that and feel rejected over it. but that's a psychopathic kind of rejection.

we're talking about regular people. >> one of the things that i've observed over the years with psychopathic personalities, sometimes referred to as sociopaths or anti-social personality disorders, is these these people, when they run out of socially acceptable ways to express themselves, when they have an inability to influence people by word, then they resort to the frustration deeds which usually is violence. and i'm wondering if that's what happened in this case. maybe he was getting frustrated. she was dazed from marrying someone else. it was recking his fantasy. and so he lashed out because he ran out of ways to express or influence. >> i totally agree with you, dr. phil. i think that's what it is. i don't think it has anything to do with cleaning rat cages. because there are a lot of other people that work there. why her? why now? i totally agree with you. i think that's what the motive was behind this. and i think we're going to find out more about his personality that will line up with this in the days to come and we can get rid of this silly concept that it was just a workplace violence kind of thing. >> dr. henry lee, how solid is the evidence on this?

do they have this guy at this point? what do they have? >> well, official report, of course, the victim died of a neck compression. and the evidence, basically, there are a lot of videotapes and swipe card records, in addition to, of course, the dna evidence. according to the news report, they found her dna on his shoes and also his dna on her clothing. those clothing material was found on the top of the ceiling tile. this is extremely important. now you have the linkage. you put the victim suspect in a close contact range. also, you put the victim suspect in one location. and that's why they wait until the dna result to make the arrest. >> okay. a reminder, raymond clark is innocent until proven guilty, despite what seems to be

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well, you didn't hit the wrong channel button, you are watching "larry king live." i'm dr. phil mcgraw. i'm sitting in for larry tonight. we're talking about the murder of yale grad student annie le with thomas kaplan, editor in chief for the yale "daily news," criminal profiler, pat brown, forensics expert dr. henry lee, and joining us from new york, criminologist and attorney, casey jordan. casey, let me start with you. anything that you knew about this case that would help us understand what in the world happened here? >> well, again, i know as much as everybody else knows from reading the newspapers. and as much as i understand that it's a lot more complex than just a workplace violence case, i think it's really fascinating the sort of work that he did. and i do think that he suffered from deep insecurities. probably -- we read in the paper, his position was a notch

above custodian. and even though they work very closely with these research students, there was a hierarchy there. and his job started in the washroom. he washed cages and moved big 40-pound bags of pet food. and he really was something of an assistant at the bottom level to these ph.d. students at one of the most prestigious universities in the world. so that dichotomy, that probably a need to overcompensate for this deep insecurity could contribute to that whole power control debate that we're having right now if that was really part of his personality that caused him to decompensate, if there was a confrontation between him and the victim. >> well, casey, clearly, we have a hierarchy here and there's a hierarchy everywhere, but people don't, just because they're lower down the power chain, don't aggress against somebody in this way. now, he hasn't been convicted of this, it's still an accusation, but what would make somebody snap and go this violent? i understand the resentment

being down the chain, but what would cause somebody to snap this way? >> i think there are a lot of variables involved and i think pat touched on a lot of them earlier. there may have been a romantic interest in annie le, but it could also have been one of those thing that was masked in trying to prove himself to her and maybe she either didn't notice him or criticized the way he was keeping the cages. maybe he didn't like the way that she dealt with the animals. as i understand it, if anything goes wrong, because as you know, dr. phil, animal ethics is a very hot topic in research, and if any of these animals are not handled in the most careful manner, guess who pays for it, even if the student makes a mistake, the lab technician will catch flak for it. so we had some reports of him being rude to some of the students and some of the workers there. and again, it all is part of the mix of his personality, the working conditions and his interaction with the people. if he had a romantic interest in her, this on top of all of the stress of his work world could have created this situation in which the crime could happen.

but it was definitely per sip at a timed by some sort of confrontation that they had to have had that day. >> well, clearly, the question then becomes, were there warning signs? and if so, did we miss them and how did we miss them? more on the dark side of human behavior when we come back. ever worn your clothes in the shower? if you're using other moisturizing body washes, you might as well be. you see, their moisturizer sits on top of skin, almost as if you're wearing it. only new dove deep moisture has nutriummoisture, a breakthrough formula with natural moisturizers... that can nourish deep down. it's the most effective natural nourishment ever. new dove deep moisture with nutriummoisture. superior natural nourishment for your skin.

caused by a completely blocked artery, another heart attack could be lurking waiting to strike. a heart attack caused by a clot, one that could be fatal. but plavix helps save lives. plavix taken with other heart medicines, goes beyond what other heart medicines do alone, to provide greater protection against heart attack or stroke and even death by helping to keep blood platelets from sticking together and forming clots. ask your doctor about plavix, protection that helps save lives. if you have a stomach ulcer or other condition that causes bleeding you should not use plavix.

taking plavix alone or with some other medicines including aspirin may increase bleeding risk, tell your doctor before planning surgery or taking aspirin or other medicines with plavix, especially if you've had a stroke. some medicines that are used to treat heartburn or stomach ulcers, like prilosec, may affect how plavix works, so tell your doctor if you are taking other medicines. if fever, unexplained weakness or confusion develops, tell your doctor promptly. these may be signs of ttp, a rare but potentially life-threatening condition reported sometimes less than 2 weeks after starting plavix. other rare but serious side effects may occur. if you take plavix with other heart medicines, continuing to do so will help increase protection against a future heart attack or stroke. feeling better doesn't mean you're not at risk. stay with plavix. we're back tonight, talking about the tragic murder of annie le at yale university. and we were just talking with the criminologist and the profiler about why somebody does this sort of thing.

and you know, i've had so many people ask me, dr. phil, how do we not see this coming? and the problem is that you can look at all kinds of psychological profiles and they don't very well predict whether somebody is going to turn to violence or not. you'll look at somebody like the university shooting in virginia two years ago and you see all of these things after the fact that seem to explain the behavior, but the problem is, not everybody that does the kind of behaviors that people point to afterwards become violence. so you can explain it after the fact with a lot of speculation, but it doesn't mean that you can predict it. and that's one of the problems here. now, two of raymond clark's friends were larry's guests on the show last night. let's take a listen to what they had to say. >> larry: maurice, you were a childhood friend of raymond's since first grade. what do you make of this? >> it's very shocking to me.

this is not the raymond clark that i know and, honestly, at the time being, i can't say that i believe he's guilty. i've known him so long, i just can't picture him doing something like this, no, not at all. >> larry: have you ever known him to be violent? >> no. not at all. i've known him to be outgoing, happy, athletic, fun. violent? not at all. >> pat, pat brown, if i can ask you, we were listening to casey jordan talk just before we heard the friends discussing things and she was suggesting that there were problems associated in the workplace, that maybe sensitivity about the way the animals were being treated and the fact that there are reports that he had berated researchers

for minor infractions, so she suggested maybe there was a workplace dynamic here, but you don't agree with that. you think this had to have some type of stronger emotional motivation than this, i didn't like the way you handled that mouse. >> right. he'll have issues every place he goes in life. so it doesn't matter where he's at, he's going to have the little things he gets irritated with other people, because they're not respecting him and they're doing things that he doesn't agree with and they're not saying, you're right and i'm wrong. he doesn't like that. i think this confrontation was set up by him. so i don't think they got in a confrontation. i think he set it up so he could get her in there, so he could tell her, you know, where she was wrong, so he could elevate himself above her. so he could get her to beg, he could get her to grovel. in other words, if you can't get what you want, you destroy it. and i think that's where he was at. now, i don't think he premeditated this to the point where he thought he was going to kill her that day, but i think he was angry to the point we realized she was never going to come to him.

she was never going to say, yeah, you're an okay guy or you're smart or whatever he was looking for from her. i want to be your girlfriend. he wasn't going to get his little prize and he wasn't going to get her to respect him. so he brought her in there to tear apart. and the problem is, when she probably stood there going, what are you talking about, he couldn't get her to gravel, that's what sent him into the rage. and when you strangle somebody, it's interesting, ted bundy said it the best, he said, when you strangle a woman, you're looking into her eyes and seat terror in her eyes and she knows you are god and you can take her life away from her. he's going to go on and she's not, so he wins. >> casey jordan, you were talking about the fact that there's likely some very strong insecurities here. we also know that when he was in high school, he was the quarterback on the football team, he was the pitcher on the baseball team. these are generally regarded as leadership roles that get a lot of attention, get a lot of strokes, if you will, from

coaches, teammates, students. does that dovetail with him being insecure? >> ah, but we don't know what was going on under the surface. we have a lot of people who are highly accomplished, but no matter what they accomplish, they feel like they're not good enough. you know, the most important thing that we've discovered about his high school record is that he had an ex-girlfriend, who when they broke up, he wouldn't leave her alone. he stalked her. she reported that he raped her. she later -- they never pressed charges. she declined to do that. but, of course, that doesn't mean it wasn't true. and the police had to talk to him and tell him to stay away from her. which really does fit with what pat's saying. it's classic, if i can't have her, no one should be able to have her. and that need to be in control is sometimes just an overcompensation coping mechanism for deep insecurities. i mean, if he was such a leader and such -- the pitcher, the football quarterback, it's a little bit strange that he never went on to college and got this job at yale, apparently his sister and his brother-in-law are also animal technicians. and so is his girlfriend.

so he had to use nepotism to get the position that he's currently in. and that was probably the crux of his life. the only thing that he really could control about his future was his work. nothing else really seemed to be gelling for him. >> all right. just real quickly, dr. lee, based on what we know about the evidence, did she fight back? i mean, were there defensive wounds, by her fighting back? >> yes. of course, their report, there were scratches on his body and his face. in addition, their report found one bead on the basement floor, which belongs to her necklace. that is a clear indication of a violent struggle. i've been investigating, you know, over 5,000 homicide cases. many of those may just a simple last-minute argument. and he cannot control his temperament, because don't forget, the cause of death, we

still don't know that the strangulation or a compression of the neck, strangulation could be one reason, could be a ligature, could be a hard object and a large force. so mainly stuff have to come and when the laboratory report come out, we can know better. >> thomas kaplan, in just a few seconds, can you tell us what the mood is on campus at this point? >> well, i think to some extent, people are relieved. granted, you know, we don't want to convict anyone before their trial, but just the idea that the police, you know, gathered evidence and were able to make an arrest and it looks like a solid arrest quickly, has definitely brought a sense of relief to campus. >> all right. well, again, we have to remember, raymond clark is innocent until proven guilty. we're moving on to another crime in the headlines. accused kidnapper phillip garrido and whether he's tied to some unsolved missing girl cases. you're going to meet a young woman whose playmate was snatched right in front of her 20 years ago. stay with us.

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we did locate another bone on the exterior of the garrido property. it was in a different location than the bone located on that property earlier in the week and it's too early to even begin to guess what kind of bone that might be, human or animal. >> phillip garrido and his wife, nancy, were arrested august 26th and remain jailed on kidnapping and rape charges in connection with the '91 abduction of

11-year-old jaycee dugard garrido allegedly fathered her two daughters. they're now trying to see if there's any connection between garrido and two other missing girl cases. joning us now is cnn's dan simon with the latest. he's in our san francisco bureau and this story just gets more compelling by the day. >> reporter: it's really been unbelievable since this all started in late august. and we can tell you today authorities were back out at the house. they've been there pretty much since this case began. and what they're looking for, as you mentioned, dr. phil, they're looking to see if philip and nancy garrido might be somehow linked to a pair of kidnappings that happened roughly 20 years ago. and what they've been doing is they've been looking, basically, in the backyard of the house. they've had cadaver dogs there. they've come across, actually, several bones. at this point, they don't know if those bones are animal or human, but they've been sifting through the backyard. there's been so much debris back there, it's really been taking

all this time just to get the whole place cleared out. what we saw yesterday was quite compelling as well. the first time we've actually seen the inside of this house. and we've seen the backyard and the series of tents and sheds. well, inside, it doesn't look any better. you're seeing dishes that haven't been washed, stacked up in the sink, disregarded furniture, disregarded appliances. and this was the life that jaycee dugard was exposed to for nearly 20 years. >> let's look at the timing, dan. i know you've been all over this case and we've watched you so closely as you've brought this information to us. we know that he gets out of jail and at the time he gets out, we begin to see this pattern. michaela garecht in september '88 was abducted. a lien misheloff and then jaycee

dugard in '91. is the timing one of the big reasons that heir looking at this? mikea was 9, eileen was 9 and jaycee was 11. >> we know that he got off jail in approximately 1988 after serving 11 years of a 50-year prison sentence for committing a rape back in 1976. but you're right, the timing is a coincidence here. well, maybe not. that's what authorities want to look at. but in particular, as it relates to the michaela garecht case, police are looking at that case closely, really for a couple of reasons. if you look at jaycee dugard, she was 11, and michaela garecht, she was 9. you put them side by side, they're almost identical. both blond hair, blue eyes. very similar in appearance. perhaps there's an m.o. there. secondly, you look at phillip garrido, you look at the composite sketch of 20-some years ago and police say there's a striking resemblance

between phillip garrido and the composite sketch. and there was a witness to what happened back when michaela garecht was abducted. she was abducted near a supermarket. she said, this car looks a lot like the car that i remember my friend being taken away in. so there's a lot to look at here, and of course, that's why cops are back out at the house. >> okay, dan, i want you to stay with us if you can. when we come back, we're going to talk to the mother of one of the still-missing girls and to the woman who witnessed the actual abduction when she was a child two decades ago. we'll talk to them when we come back.

you're watching "larry king live." i'm dr. phil mcgraw sitting in for larry tonight. sharon murch is joining us. her daughter, michaela was kidnapped in 1988. sharon, as you've watched this unfold, is it eerily similar to what happened to your daughter?

>> well, yes, there are a lot of similarities between jaycee's kidnapping and michaela's kidnapping. the cases have intersected in the investigations over the years because of those similarities. and when jaycee was found alive, my first thought was, please, god, let michaela be with her. >> and, of course, we know that she wasn't with her. has there ever been an arrest or an active suspect in the case of michaela? >> there have been a number of suspects. the police have investigated over 13,000 leads in the last 20 years, but there have never been any arrests. >> do you still hold out hope that she's alive? >> i do still hold out hope that she's alive. one of the neighbors of the garrido's several years ago reported that there were girls living in the backyard and they reported that there were not three girls living in the backyard, but five girls. so that leaves two unaccounted for.

and i'm believing that one of those could be michaela. >> katrina rodriguez is joining us. she was with michaela garecht and witnessed her kidnapping. katrina, this has got to bring an awful lot back to you when you hear about the way in which jaycee was reportedly kidnapped. >> yeah, it sounds remarkably like michaela's kidnapping. broad daylight, shoved into a car, and with her kidnapping, i believe there was a witness too. >> are you the one that provided the description to the police? >> yes. >> and you remember the car. tell us what you remember about the car that she was pulled into. >> it was early '80s, maybe late '70s, kind of boxy, a sedan, and tan in color.

and photos i've seen of the garrido's car, they -- it looks like the same shape of car. i can't vouch for the color. it doesn't match my memory, but the shape of the car matches. >> people might wonder, of course, why would they have that car 30 years later, but i have to tell you, from a psychological perspective, when i see the photos from inside the house, it is highly suggestive that these people may be hoarders that can't turn loose of anything. they collect things that are obviously junk to someone else, but they just can't turn loose of. if that's the case, if these pictures of the house do depict some type of unwillingness or inability to turn loose of things, it might explain why that car was still there, if, in fact, it is the same car. when you see -- katrina, when you see pictures of phillip

garrido, what do you think? does it ring any bells with you? >> i've seen some photos of him from the late '70s and early '80s and i have to say that it looks a lot like my memory of the kidnapper. especially the eyes, but the shape of the face, length of it, kind of the placement of his eyes apart from each other and everything just kind of seems to match up and i haven't really gone on record as saying that very often. >> well, yeah, clearly, that's got to be a compelling image for you to see, because i know it was traumatic for you at the time as well. we're going to have katrina tell us more about that fateful day and talk more to sharon when we come back.

i'm dr. phil sitting in for larry king tonight. right now we are talking about jaycee dugard's kidnapping and her release. dan simon is with us.

dan, you've been on top of this case from the beginning. what's the mood in the neighborhood up there? >> reporter: well, i think people are pretty upset that the authorities didn't, you know, discover this case a lot sooner. we actually spoke to a neighbor, his girlfriend called the police some three years ago. she looked over the fence of their property, saw some tents, saw some children living in the backyard, picked up the phone, dialed 911. sheriff's office came out, talked to phillip garrido for a few minutes and then left. so i think when you walk through the streets of that neighborhood, people are angry, saying, why didn't police, you know, catch this guy a lot sooner? >> dan, one of the things i wanted to ask you, and i'm sure you've talked to law enforcement, both on and off the record, i know next thursday on my show, we're doing a story about the wesson family that was in fresno and wound up with very

similar situation. the father that had daughters living in tents, had sex with daughters that yielded children, and when he was confronted by police, he killed everyone that was home, shooting them all in the head. is this something that was averted -- while law enforcement seemed to drop the ball on one hand, they were terribly alert on the other in recognizing that something was going on to avoid what could have been a tragic outcome, like the one we're going to talk about on thursday. >> reporter: well, clearly phillip garrido, if the allegations are true, had an unbelievable ability to keep this secret for so many years. he had to meet with his parole officer a couple of times a month. we know that the children and jaycee dugard were visible with him at times. that backyard was there for many, many years, apparently, only a few neighbors saw it. so he had really an incredible ability to keep this double life from coming out.

>> well, sharon, let me ask you, have you talked to jaycee dugard? >> no, i haven't. >> because i would -- you know, i would think that it would be such a wonderful opportunity, maybe they crossed paths in some ways. it's possible that jaycee knew your daughter or saw your daughter or knows something about her. i'm sure you must just be really, really anxious to ask those questions. >> i think it is possible, but jaycee was not jaycee at the time that she lived with phillip garrido, she was alyssa. so if she had crossed paths with michaela, she may not have even known it. >> but if she could be shown some pictures, if she could, you know, talk with you, get some descriptions, some things that she might recognize, that would

just be so helpful and we just wish you so much goodwill with all of this and hope that something comes up. more with katrina and sharon after the break. blueprint is free and only for chase customers. it lets you choose what purchases you want to pay in full to avoid interest...with full pay. and those you split... you decide how to pay over time. if having a plan matters. chase what matters. create your own blueprint at chase.com/blueprint. as the decades have past, the promise of medicare has always been there. and aarp has fought to guarantee none of the benefits you earned were ever taken away. today we're continuing that fight by protecting your freedom to choose the doctors and treatments you need. and to have your tax dollars go towards your care-- not insurance company subsidies. you've done your work. and we'll keep doing ours.

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time to see what's cooking on "ac 360." anderson, what have you got for us tonight? >> dr. phil, ahead tonight on the program, we're following breaking news out of colorado. a young afghan national admits ties to al qaeda. he's being questioned by the fbi for a third straight day in connection with a possible terrorist plot in this country. now, we're learning tonight that this man, najibullah zazi had video in his possession of grand

central terminal in new york city. jeanne meserve has the latest on that. also tonight, president obama launching an all-out media blitz on. joe johns reports on the continuing controversy. also, the latest from south carolina, congressman joe wilson who's also speaking out today. new details on the murder investigation of yale student annie le, who police zeroed in on the alleged killer raymond clark, even before her body was found. those stories and more ahead tonight on "360," dr. phil? >> thanks, anderson. >> thank you, anderson. we're here talking about the jaycee dugard case.

really from a different angle. because there are two other disappearances that happened along that time. about that time. and so now there is real suspicion that he may have been involved in those disappearances. maybe so, maybe not. but there are some similarities. sharon murch, mother of one of the missing girls, michaela garecht. katrina, let me start with you. were you and michaela the same age? >> yes, we were both in the fourth grade. >> okay. and tell us what happened that day. you were walking down the -- how did it happen? i know there were some scooters involved. >> yes. we rode scooters a couple blocks from our house to the local supermarket. and we went inside. we got some soda and some beef jerky and laffy taffy and we started to leave the building. we walked to the edge of the parking lot and then realized we left the scooters. and we went back to the front door to look for where we had parked them. and one of them was missing. michaela was the first to notice where the other scooter was. and so she went to go pick it up. and as i stooped down to pick up the other scooter, i heard screaming. and i looked up and i saw a man

shoving her into his car. and he got in the car. he pulled out of the parking spot, out of the parking lot and on to the road and that's when i ran inside to tell a clerk. and she called 911. >> so you knew right away this was all wrong. i mean you could -- you knew it was not -- that this was not supposed to be happening? >> yes. but it took a little while to register. i definitely wasn't expecting it so i just stood frozen watching it until he had gotten out to the road. and then i ran in. but, yes, i definitely knew something was very wrong. >> what's been your reaction with all this coming out now with jaycee dugard? >> i've got a lot of hope renewed. and then just there's renewed

feelings of guilt and sadness that it was michaela who was kidnapped. i mean, obviously i'm thankful for my life and what i've had and experienced. but i'm very sad that michaela didn't. >> how has it affected you over the years that you saw such a traumatic thing? >> i would say i'm a little more apt to take responsibility for things maybe that really aren't my fault. i'm a pretty overprotective mom, i'd say. and, yeah, i -- i definitely have fears that people are going to come after me and my children. >> it's very understandable. sharon, what is it that you want people in america, around the world and certainly in that area

to know about michaela and about your hopes? >> i would like to address michaela. i'm hoping that she's out there alive and she's able to see me and able to hear my voice. i just want to tell her that there's nothing that could have happened over the last 20 years that could have changed my feelings for her. there's nothing that could have happened over the last 20 years that we cannot heal. and i am just begging her to break free and come home. if she's not willing to do it for herself, do it for me, please. because going through this and wondering where my daughter is and what she might be experiencing or what she might have experienced is really hard. and i just really long to have the experience that jaycee's mother has had of being reunited and being able to hold her in my arms again. i just want her to come home. >> sharon, we'll all pray for you. thank you. and katrina, thank you. we'll wrap it up after this.

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the question on everybody's mind is, philip garrido involved in some of the other disappearances that we've been talking about tonight. dan simon, you've been in antioch. you've been all over this. experts that follow these things with pedophiles and sexual offenders tell us that the average sexual offender can have anywhere from 100 to 400 victims throughout their lifetime.

so the fact that philip garrido has been tied to one that we know of and a violent rape before leaves an awful lot of concern that there are other victims out there. what does law enforcement think about this? >> dr. phil, i've often heard you say the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. but in terms of what authorities are saying, the bottom line is they don't know if he's connected to these other cases. that's why they're spending so much time out at the house. we can tell you that starting on monday police are going to be back out there looking at the soil. they're going to be digging it up. we know that a couple of cadaver dogs picked up a scent. they zeroed in on one particular area. they brought out magnetometers to day and confirm there is something unusual beneath the soil. i think once they go in there and dig up that yard a little bit more, perhaps it might yield a few more answers. you mentioned that they didn't throw anything away that they showed classic signs of being

hoarders. when it comes to this particular case that, might be an asset. because if you didn't throw anything away, there might be evidence in the house that might tie into some of these other crimes. >> well, if they are hoarders, and it certainly looks like they're pack rats, or whatever you want to call it, then hopefully there will be clues in there, something that will tie back to some other cases. because as i say, there are a number of those that -- there is such a high number that these people usually victimize. it doesn't mean they're violent with all of them. but they do have more than one victim typically. so maybe we'll learn something about that as we go along. dan, i'm sure you'll keep us posted on all that. you know, we've seen pictures tonight of the young girls. it's hard to age them in your mind. but if anybody knows anything about it, you know, please contact the authorities. let us know. i really enjoyed sitting in with larry tonight. this is not a fun topic but one i know you're interested in. so i hope i see you next week on "dr. phil."