>> larry: tonight, president obama slams the money men. >> i did not run for office to be helping out a bunch of fat cat bankers on wall street. >> larry: and tells them to pay their profits forward. >> and now that they're back on their feet, we expect an extraordinary commitment from them to help rebuild our economy. >> larry: donald trump joins us with what he thinks. and the fallout from tiger woods' infidelity, corporate backers backing out of deals with the disgraced golfer.

will his self-imposed exile repair a reputation? nba bad boy dennis rodman is here with what it will take for tiger to claw his way out of controversy next on "larry king live." good evening. we're in new york tonight and all this week. tomorrow night the whole cast of "nine" will be with us. tonight, penn gillette, author and producer, libertarian, a new web cast called "we've got a country to save.com and robert rice, good to see robert again, professor of public policy university of california, berkeley, former labor secretary in the clinton administration. and here in new york, s.e. cupp of new york daily news. obama pressed wall street

bankers urging them to help rebuild the economy. listen to what he said. >> my main message in today's meeting was very simple. that america's banks received extraordinary assistance from american taxpayers to rebuild their industry and now that they're back on their feet, we expect an inordinate -- extraordinary commitment from them to help rebuild our economy. >> larry: let's start with miss cupp. what do you make of it? >> well, there's a couple of problems. tough talk is great, larry, but a little disingenuous when we're looking at a health care bill that's going to strangle small businesses. that's one. two, you know, i -- i -- i think this is a bit of a dog and pony show. these bankers are in a really tough spot, getting pressure from regular lators not to lend, and now obama is coming in and saying lend or else. you know, the lend or else is

what got us here in the first place. lending to unqualified borrowers. >> larry: what does he do with all of the people out there that need mortgages and need money? >> i understand but you have to appreciate the fact that these bankers are trying to be responsible at a time when they've been excoriated for being irresponsible, and rightly so. >> robert rice, what's your read? >> the public has provided these bankers and banks with hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars to make up for the mess they created initially. now so many small businesses, main street businesses, people with mortgages and everybody else are finding they can't get credit. there's no quid pro quo. there's no deal here. bankers are getting ready for gigantic end-of-year bonuses something on the order of $20 to $30 billion. of course, obama is going to have a dog and pony show. i hope it's more than that. i hope he actually says too them and says to members of congress, look, we're not going to allow wall street to get away with this. we're not going to allow them to sick their lobbyists on congress and prevent congress from

generating real reforms. this kind of stuff doesn't happen again. >> larry: on "60 minutes" last night, the president hit out at wall street bankers, called them fat cats. watch. >> i did not run for office to be helping out a bunch of fat cat bankers on wall street. the only ones that will be paying out these fat bonuses are the ones that have now paid back that t.a.r.p. money. >> do you think that's why they paid it back so quickly? >> i think in some cases that was a motivation which tells me the people on wall street still don't get it. >> larry: if you've had a bad year, how do you justify a big bonus? >> well, how do you justify being bailed out for making bad decisions? we've had a policy in this country for many, many years that says if you have a pulse, you shall be able to apply and get a mortgage. we had freddie, fannie, then we have the community reinvestment act. they get in trouble and we bail

them out. then we tell them to lend, that they ought not lend. let capitalism work and let them deal with consequences of bad decisions. if bed we had done that, we wonts be in the situation in the first place. going forward, that's what we ought to do. >> in fairness, though, president bush started doing that, right? >> no. we've had freddie and fannie for a number of years. >> larry: no, in bailing out the banks. >> i agree with you. senator obama voted for it. now he's acting as if it was a rash decision. he is one of the ones who supported it. the banks should have failed. many of them didn't even want the t.a.r.p. money and those that were solvent could have bailed out the other ones. that's the way capitalism is supposed to work. >> penn gilett, he was rather cordial with the bankers. does that surprise you, penn? >> no, because of simply numbers. there are not that many bankers. say whatever bad you want about them. things are going badly, people are looking for a scapegoat. when he says they're getting,

you know, $10 million he bonuses, that's a huge number, but $700 billion it's really like he's talking about, what, a billion is a thousand millions so it's like one penny on $7,000? i mean, the numbers have to be thought about when you're talking about how much is being spent and trillions of dollars being thrown around. the president doesn't have time to talk about a $10 million bonus. it's not the bonuses that are the problem. >> larry: do the bankers get it, s.e.? >> i think they do. frankly saying the bankers don't get it and doing this public scolding. calling them fat cats. >> larry: he apparently didn't privately scold. >> well, i don't know. i wasn't in the room. but all accounts are that it was friendly. of course, they watched "60 minutes." it was a scolding, very undignified and i think it makes the obama administration look a little out of touch. this administration has not yet learned that they don't have to say every thought that comes into their head. valerie jarrett today came out

after the meeting and basically implied we shouldn't really trust these business leaders. that's not an appropriate or professional thing to say. i think this administration needs to take back some dignity and professionalism. >> larry: we'll take a break and be back with more. robert i'll come right back starting with you. with penn gillette, layer hey elder, robert rice, and s.e.cupp. don't go away. g mo "o" for objectivity. one of the basic principles of td ameritrade. it means you help investors... you don't just sell them. it means no hidden agenda. td ameritrade always has...always will...

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professor reich, you were going to comment?

>> the scolding obama gave the financiers was mild. the public is very angry. years ago roosevelt called them malifactors of great wealth and franklin d. roosevelt called them the economic royalists that have enslaved america. the difference is that franklin d. roosevesosevelt and teddy rot backed up their words with deeds. what obama needs to do is to demand anti-trust laws be applied to the biggest banks and they be broken up so no bank is too big to fail and also the glass steegle act be resurrected. that was repealed in 1999. that separated investment banking from commercial banking and it should be resurrected. >> larry, britain has announced a50% tax on bank bonuses over 25,000 pounds. think we ought to do something like that? >> of course not.

we ought not be meddling into what private businesses pay their executives any more than we should be in the housing business. micromanagement by government that can't even run a lemonade stand that got us into this problem in the first place. you know, secretary reich suggests that it's a good thing that we somehow not let banks be a certain size. when something gets to be a certain size and becomes awkward and unmanageable it's going to collapse of its own weight. we ought to step back and allow it to happen. >> larry: penn jillett, you agree with that? >> being 6'7" and 280 pounds i think too big to fail is a good thing. if i had said the phrase fat cats i would have been spelling it p-h-a-t and it would have been a good thing. maybe he's saying a good thing about the people he gave so much money to. >> larry: s.e., banks are

lobbying against a bill to tighten regulatary controls? are you going to let the inmates run the asylum? >> we do need regulation but it's putting them in a tough spot. >> larry: so? >> they're trying to make responsible decisions, and i think president obama needs to respect the fact that they're trying to be responsible after years of irresponsibility. you don't scold someone who's trying to be responsible. you help them. the tone was like something out of a chicago backroom gentleman's club, lend or else. it was strong arming. the tone should really be let's work together. let's strike a balance to assure your long-term health and that the long-term health of the economy. >> larry: professor reich, puzzling. key people in his administration are wall street insiders, aren't they? >> many of them aren't. tim geithner was the head of the federal reserve from new york city, put there by the major bankers. others that have ties to wall street. but the fact of the matter is, larry, that this administration

has tried to damp down, camp down, regulate wall street. but it needs to do much more. it's not a matter of tone. it's not a matter of the right choice of words. it's a matter of deeds. wall street is not responsible. wall street has demonstrated irresponsibility again and again. and to be on the verge of awarding $20 to $30 billion of bonuses to its top executives in the face of all of the money from taxpayers that went to wall street which the inspector general of the t.a.r.p. fund says much of which is never going to be returned to taxpayers is the height of hubris. the president ought to force wall street not only to return all that money but also with interest. and to, as i said, break them up. break up the big ones and resurrect glass stiegle. >> larry: larry, do you think government has no say in this at all? >> of course they have a say in it. you have to regulate against fraud and abuse. and banking industry is one of the more heavily regulated industries that we have.

so, every regulation has a reaction. the banks will try to figure out some way around it. what you can do is police them to make sure they don't cheat people. beyond that there's not a whole lot you could do or should do. these banks made decisions. many of them were reckless decisions and they ought to deal with the consequences of those decisions. that's how you let the next guy down the road know how to improve his behavior. if you don't do that, you'll be back at same position down the road. >> larry: penn jillett, do you oppose regulation? >> did he say taxpayers will get the money back? does anybody thinks there would be a check written back to us if they paid it back? that seems insane to me. larry, i'll make this deal with you right now. you give me $700 billion. you can call me anything you want any time on any show you want anywhere. deal? >> larry: good point, isn't it, s.e. cupp? you take, you have to pay for the taking. >> absolutely.

the obama administration seems to be indignant at wall street for getting the fact that they were behind these bailouts to begin with. and scolding them for using the money seems a little misplaced. the obama administration has to realize their own culpibility here. >> larry: president obama -- that wasn't even -- >> one day. maybe one day. >> larry: president obama and future president oprah discussed his first year report card. we'll talk about it in 60 seconds. ♪ approximate. >> we are on our way out of iraq. (announcer) they've been tested, built and driven like no other. and now they're being offered like no other. come to the winter event and get an exceptional offer on the mercedes-benz of your dreams. it's our way of showing a little holiday spirit. hurry before the offer ends january 4th.

by changing her medicare prescription plan. all we had to do was go to cvs.com and use the free savings calculator. we learned that changing your medicare part d plan could save an average of $612. woman: we just entered my prescriptions, and it compared plans for us. it was easy to find the right plan for the prescriptions i need. your cvs pharmacist can help, too. come in today, or go to cvs.com before december 31st to find the best plan for you -- at cvs/pharmacy. >> larry: president obama sat down with oprah winfrey. she asked him how he would grade himself on a number of issues since he became president. watch. >> the economy is growing again. we are on our way out of iraq. i think we've got the best possible plan for afghanistan. we have reset our image around the world.

we are -- we have achieved an international consensus around the need for iran and north korea to disable their nuclear weapons and i think that we're going to pass the most significant piece of social legislation since social security, and that's health insurance for every american. >> larry: let me get the panel's reaction after this.

>> larry: before we discuss health care, let's get the panel's reaction to the record card? what grade do you give the president? >> he said b plus. that's the only possible answer you can give. any president, any time in history, any human being. if you ask me how i am as a husband, a driver, a juggler, a magician, i will answer b plus. higher than that, you're an ass. lower than that, you're pathologically honest. the only possible answer is b plus. i would go to a minus if i checked my rear view mirror and that's for all of those. >> larry elder, what grade do you give? >> i would point out the american people had him at 43%, 44% in the latest rasmussen poll. if he were run again today, he would not be elected. >> larry: depending who ran against him, right? >> that's true. if i ran, he probably would get elected. i would give him a d minus on the economy. i like what he's doing in afghanistan. don't like the fact that he put a deadline on it.

and regarding our nato allies, yes, they do like hum a lot better than they liked george w. bush. until very recently they did not put a single combat troop in afghanistan. >> larry: what's your overall grade? >> overall grade on foreign policy, a b plus on afghanistan except for the fact that he has a deadline. i give him an a continuing the bush policies on iraq. the rest of it, iran is still building a nuke. north korea has not backed down and israelis and palestinians are upset with him because he told the israelis not to build any more settlements. >> larry: i asked a simple question, got an involved answer. >> a d. >> larry: a d, okay. sounded like it would be a c based on the a in there, but professor reich -- >> depends how much weight you give the a. >> larry: the only man who grades papers might have a thought. >> i've been doing it all day, larry. in terms of aspiration and goals and ideals i would give him an a.

in terms of effort, just a sheer brute, getting in there and trying, the administration i give an a minus maybe an a in terms of deliverables, what they've done so far, i have to be a much harsher grader, b minus at best. i'm worried mostly about the economy. i think that there is no reason for the obama administration to claim that we're out of the woods. most americans don't believe it. >> larry: and s.e., your grade? >> it's almost christmas. i'm going to be charitable and give him a d minus. >> larry: that's charitable? >> yeah. i don't want to be the scold here and say f. but systematically is dismantling our national security, we're at record unemployment. he is going to have to answer for geithner and holder come 2012. if i'm an objective strategist, thinking about his chances, i'm very concerned because of those two issues. health care is not going to matter.

i can tell you that right now. afghanistan is not going to matter. it will be the economy, unemployment and holder's decisions on cia interrogations and the 9/11 terrorists. >> larry: two sources have told cnn senior democrats are headed toward dropping the idea to allow 55 to 64-year-olds to buy into medicare because of the opposition from independent senator joe lieberman. senate democrats had an emergency meeting to discuss the issue, which threatens to derail health care. the medicare buy-in concept was intended to -- i hope you're hearing me. i'm hearing lieberman. was intended to appease liberals. that ran into a wall when lieberman said he would support a gop filibuster to drop health care if the provision was in the bill. what do you make of this compromise, penn? >> well, it kind of means there isn't much left of the health care in terms of any sort of

public option. it's now just very similar to what we have, which is not good. >> larry: what do you think, larry? >> the whole thing is a bad idea. the idea was that it was not going to increase the deficit and it won't for the first ten years because for the first four years, monies coming in without anything going out. the next ten years and the next ten years after that, money will be going out and less will be coming in. so, he's not going to fulfill his promise that this is not going to break the bank. it is going to break the bank. it is a rotten idea for government to get more involved in health care than it already is. >> larry: you don't think there's a health care crisis with 48 million uninsured, larry? >> there are more ways of dealing with it. including letting people buy insurance across state lines, giving individuals the same kind of tax break that is businesses have, buying insurance across state lines, allowing more competition. that's what will bring down the costs. to put on millions of people and make this guy pay for that guy's health care and to tell people

with a straight face it's not going to increase overall cost is nonsense. >> larry: professor reich, am i my brother's keeper? >> we're all in the same boat together. a lot of good things in the health bill even if the compromise comes apart. telling and requiring that health insurance companies not look at pre-existing conditions and not drop people because they get sick and also recovering 31 million more americans is good. what i'm most concerned about in the bill is there is not sufficient competition among private insurance companies. the entire insurance system, even in the bill, still depends on private for-profit insurance companies and there's just -- we know that in at least nine states, two private insurance companies dominate 85% of the market. they are consolidating like mad. there is no public option in that bill right now. i think that's dangerous. >> larry: s.e.? >> this health care bill, i think, is a disaster for small businesses. it's going to strangle small businesses.

it's not 48 million uninsured. it's far less. that number has become sort of ubiquitou su s. >> larry: how do you know? >> i called the census bureau. 4 to 5 million of that number are people my age who don't want health insurance but could afford it. when you get really right down to it it's more like 9 million. not that they should be ignored. but why would we trample on the rights of the many to satisfy the rights of the few when most of us are pretty satisfied with what we have? we're going to be putting small businesses out of business because we're going to require them -- why would a small business owner, who can save 8% per employee by siphoning them off into some government health care option, why would they choose private health care? the insurer you have now and like will be gone in a couple of years. >> larry: i like them until i get sick. >> well -- >> larry: thank you all very much.

>> larry, that's exactly the point. most americans like their doctors, they like their choice of doctor, but when it comes to the private insurance companies most americans who have wrangelled with private insurance companies don't like it, in fact, they hate it. they know that they're being taken. >> larry: thank you all, panel. we'll have you back, guaranteed donald trump has something to say about obama's fat cat remark and a few other topics. he'll sound off right after the break. when we're in the mood. it's our choice. announcer: today, guys with erectile dysfunction can be ready with another dosing option from cialis. cialis for daily use is a clinically proven low-dose tablet you take every day, so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. so relax and take your time. tell your doctor about your medical condition and all medications and ask if you're healthy enough for sexual activity. don't take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. don't drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache.

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>> larry: joining us now by phone is donald trump. donald, obama sat down with the bankers at the white house. it wasn't just a photo-op. you think they're listening to him? >> i think they're probably not listening to him, larry. we're in a situation where banks are not lending at all. they obviously don't have very much respect for the president, so it's a problem. but i saw the folks over at the white house. i just saw a newscast. they're obviously not listening. you're not going to get the economy going unless the banks start to lend, and they are not lending to anybody for virtually any reason. >> larry: but they took all this money. what are they doing with it? >> buying airplanes, like jamie diamond at jp morgan chase has a whole big fleet of planes and, i understand, building a magnificent hangar, doing lots of wonderful things. they're not loaning money. >> larry: how do they get away with it? don't they put a stipulation on the loans we gave them? >> i don't think they put much of a stipulation. you see what's going on.

i can say you can have the finest job in the country. you can have the finest tenants in the country if you go, as an example, for a mortgage to build a building or construction loan, the banks will tell you, we love you very much but there is -- there are no loans. loans are not available. i have cases where i have buildings where people bought a unit but can't get money to close the unit. they just can't what they call end loans. they can't get them under any circumstances, great buildings. so, the banks took in billions of dollars. i don't know what they're doing with the money. i can tell you one thing they're not doing with it is lending. another thing. many banks you used to have new york, chase, jp morgan, those two merged, chemical bank, you had them all over the place. today, you have very few banks. they've all merged. they've become monsters. if they go bad it's going to be a catastrophe. they should do something to break up the big banks. >> larry: is the president between a rock and a hard place

here? >> i don't think so. i think he is trying very hard but the banks are not listening. >> larry: what does he do? >> he has to get them to loan money and put out the loans. if they don't do that, they're showing a great lack of respect for the president. >> larry: do they need more regulation? >> i don't think so, larry. something is haywire. it's very interesting. rates are very low, but you can't get money. in theory, if you can't get money, rates should be high. they're record low, but nobody can get money. strong people, really good people, people with high credit ratings, cannot get money. so, something is wrong with the system. >> larry: the obvious, how did we get to this? >> well, look, it's been a long road. it's been a long and winding road. it was a mess a year ago. the various folks did really, i think, the right thing by stuffing the banks with money. every bank would have been out of business, no matter how strong it was. you would have had a run on the system, a run on the banks. i listened to a lot of people saying they shouldn't have done that. let capitalism work.

that would have been fine, but we would have gone through a ten-year depression and we were really right there. they did the right thing in putting the money into the banks. it kept the system alive. the problem is, larry, banks are not loaning the money. >> larry: overall in the economy, how is the president doing? >> i think you would have to say he's working very, very hard. i would like to say in complete, you don't know until you see -- you know, finances are a very interesting and very complex thing. you don't really know what's going to happen until you can look out with a crystal ball four or five years. nobody can do that. really the word would be "incomple "incomplete." he is trying hard. he's doing his best. >> larry: is the recession over? >> the recession is over for the stock market, because the stock market seems to go up. now, maybe it's either a great indicator, leading indicator or it's going to be one hell of a bubble. it's going to be a blast. because something's wrong.

the stock market is doing well and everything else is doing badly. and i have friends that run these big companies, big public companies. they say they're doing terribly but their stock keeps going up. >> larry: why is the stock market happy when unemployment goes up? >> nobody knows the answer. that's why either a leading indicator, which would be wonderful, or a bubble like you've never seen before. >> larry: are you optimistic? >> i'm pretty optimistic. again, we have no banking system. we have no banks. we have nobody to lend money to do projects. if i want to do a project where i'm going to employ thousands of people to build it, you can't get money from a bank. until you get the banking system working and make it effective, you are not going to have much of an economy, larry. you're going to have huge unemployment. >> larry: what do you make of that new gigantic city center in las vegas? >> total catastrophe. first of all, it cost billions more than it was anticipated to, so that you have to blame the company for and the people leading it. it turned out to be a total

catastrophe. >> larry: we'll take a break. when we come back we'll talk about another area of expertise, branding and tiger woods. don't go away. make these savings even more memorable. gecko: all right... gecko: good driver discounts. now that's the stuff...? boss: how 'bout this? gecko: ...they're the bee's knees? boss: or this? gecko: sir, how 'bout just "fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance." boss: ha, yeah, good luck with that catching on! anncr: geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.

>> larry: by the way a huge show for you tomorrow. the cast of the new movie "nine" daniel day-lewis, marion cotillard, judi derch, kate hudson, nicole kidman, six academy award winners tomorrow night on "larry king live."

the movie "nine," by the way, is a ten. donald trump is still with us. tiger woods, a friend of yours. one sponsor, accenture, has dropped him. sorry response spors are middle roading it. and nike endorsed him today, staying with him. what do you make of this, donald? >> he's going through a very tough period of time. who would have ever thought? his career was so perfectly manicured and managed it was amazing. he really is a good guy. i know him and i like him and i respect him. and i wish to see him play golf. i mean, he is rembrandt on canvas. you can't take that canvas away. you know, it's something he should be doing. i can't imagine him, larry, sitting home with his wife, holding hands, watching hundreds of thousands of people walking down the fairways and watching phil mickleson or somebody else winning the masters. he's going to be sitting there holding his wife's hand? i don't get it. i don't see it. >> larry: hasn't your respect for him diminished at all?

>> i know him and like him and really respected him the most as a great athlete, great golfer. i know him as a golfer. i never knew anything about his private life. i can tell you the private lives of many people are not what they would seem. but i do say this. his marriage is seriously -- it's going to be a very tough one to put together, larry. these women are coming out of the woodwork and it's going to be awfully tough. i just don't see tiger sitting there, holding hands, watching golf tournaments every weekend with his wife. >> larry: are you surprised nike stays in his camp? >> not at all. that one is based on golf. it's not based on other things. it's based on equipment that he hit the golf ball with. he hits it better than anyone else in the world, and neek key does very well by it. sell a lot of nike merchandise at my various places. nike would stay. accenture probably has a more difficult situation. >> larry: what about the business of golf?

ratings will suffer. he doubles the ratings when he plays in tournaments. what about the overall business of golf? >> golf will be fine. nobody is bigger than the game itself, even tiger. when he does come back, it will be super bowl type ratings, if you think about it. when tiger comes back, it will be tremendous ratings. however, you still have to win. as great as tiger is, with the kind of pressure that perhaps you could say he has put on himself, it's going to be even tougher. he has to get out and win because nothing works, as an example with kobe, who i also happen to like a lot. if kobe didn't get out and play so well and win, it wouldn't be quite the same thing. tiger has to go out and win and i believe he will. >> larry: should he come forward in some arena like "larry king live," oprah or some place and make an interview appearance? >> i think eventually that will happen. right now it doesn't seem to be. he's trying to put the marriage back together. it's a very tough thing to do. i speak maybe a bit negatively when i say that.

i think it's very tough to do, put something together where the trust has been so badly broken. i've seen it many times. i've watched it many times and it's very, very tough to build back that trust, no matter what you do. i really think tiger should just go about his life, go to the tournaments, win the tournaments, play better golf than anybody else and just sort of let the rest take care of itself. >> larry: does he owe the public anything? >> i don't think he owes the public. >> larry: other than playing golf? >> no, he owes the public nothing. tiger was known as a good boy. maybe he should be known as the bad boy. maybe the marriage doesn't work out. he'll go with 5,000 women, have a great time, even better than your life, larry, hard to duplicate. he will have a great time, win tournaments and be the bad boy. instead of having disney world he will have casinos or somebody endorsing him. frankly i think it will be very, very tough. it will be a very tough period of time for tiger. the main thing that he focus on

golf and he wins. i don't know what's going to happen in terms of relationship. but it's going to be a very tough period of time. >> larry: by the way, we'll hold you a little bit. dennis rodman is up next. he was one of your apprentice guys. >> he was on "the apprentice," a really good guy. i will stay for dennis. >> larry: we want to get his thoughts on this. you and dennis may not agree. what do you think about tiger's troubles? go to cnn.com/larryking. click on blog. tell us. we love hearing from you. donald sticks around. talking more tiger with dennis rodman in 60 seconds.

>> larry: donald trump is still with us. now dennis rodman is here, an athlete who knows all too well about being in the media eye of the storm. this might be the first time they've been together since the celebrity appearance, and rodman the greatest rebounder in the history of the professional basketball. the possessor of five

championship rings. donald, give us your quick ten type of dennis rodman. >> here you go. >> dennis is a winner, larry, he was on "the apprentice," we had a lot of time together. i gained a great respect. he's a champion. he has five rings and how many people have five rings at anything? dennis knows i like him a lot. he was great on the show. by the way, the ratings were fantastic. i like him even more. >> larry: dennis, what's your thoughts on the whole tiger woods' thing? >> well, my thoughts are just like donald's. i think tiger needs to get back outside and just be -- just live his life. i think the home life is not in good shape but i think that's -- as far as a personal entity he is still marketable. most of the people that have dumped him now will understand he will come back bigger, stronger than ever. he has to work on his home life. i'm no one to say that, right? wow! but i think we all love tiger.

he is a great guy. one thing people in this industry have to understand, we built this man to be this great god. we didn't ask tiger woods to come out and say i'm not bad. i'm not good. he's a great golfer. i'm pretty sure he's a great dad. and all these girls are coming out right now just making all these -- >> larry: what about the endorsements? nike is sticking by him. the rest are wavering and accenture dropped him. >> you have to weigh all the options and with me i lost a couple of endorsements. it's not all about endorsements. it's about fixing your life and i think tiger has made over $1 billion in less than ten years. he has done a lot of great things for people around the world. i think he's not bigger than golf. golf needs him. and the people need him. i think as far as americans, we are so forgiving, no matter what we do in the world, we could be

normal, abnormal, we could be great, we could be fantastic. we could be infamous. we could be famous. no matter what we do, people here in america is always going to give you a second, third chance. >> larry: donald, if you had a product, would you have tiger endorse it? >> the answer is always yes, because he's just a guy that i like a lot. but it really would depend on what the product is. i can see accenture maybe taking their stance. i can also see -- i never had a doubt that nike, that's all about hitting the ball. i never had a doubt that nike would stay with him and some of the others will stay with him. tiger will be a little different. his image over the years will be a lot different probably than it was. and that's not necessarily so bad. i mean, look at dennis. dennis' image is slightly different. and dennis does just fine. hey, larry, tiger will be a different guy. but i agree with dennis. he has a chance to be bigger and better than ever. that's a big statement. >> larry: let me get a break. back with more. more tiger talk with two top

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>> larry: before we get back to dennis and donald, let's check in with anderson cooper, who is somewhere here on the floor. he will host "ac 360" at the top of the hour. anderson? >> breaking news at the top of the hour, major roadblock to health care reform might be out of the way. senator joe lieberman who stunned washington with his announcement he would not support the bill unless a key provision is dropped. he might be getting his way tonight, could get the democrats closer to a major overhaul of health care. plus james arthur ray, that self-help guru who is under suspicion after three people

died in a sweat lodge at one of his retreats. the people closest to mr. ray have remained silent to police until now. what a senior staffer shares what it's like to work with ray and who she thinks is to blame. she was at the sweat lodge ceremony where three died. it's getting worse for tiger woods. the day after accenture is dropping woods. two other sponsors might have second thoughts. we'll tell you what the president of nike said that has people upset. all that and more at the top of the hour. >> larry: that's "ac 360." dennis rodman has a wonderful organization. he raises money for a homeless shelt n shelter in florida. go to rodmanralph.org. i salute you for that, dense nis. >> thank you, brother. >> larry: people are complaining that mr. knight of nike is supporting him. he's taken a lot of hits for

that. do you understand that? >> i'm supporting him also, so they have to complain against me and dennis. i know plenty that are supporting him. it's his personal life. it's unfortunate. i certainly never saw tiger in this light, but you know what? i know him and like him. he happens to be a good guy. >> larry: dennis, should he come forward in another form than issuing press releases? >> i think in my position being a bad boy, i think you just go out and live life, man. you can't do anything now, because a lot of women are coming out and chasing him because eyre tiger woods. if he was an average guy, people wouldn't care. he's such an icon and legend right now, such a young age. he needs to play goflt somewhere, go down the street and play golf, go to vegas, go to the hamptons. >> larry: he would be hounded, though. >> it doesn't matter. sooner or later you have to come out and let people see you.

i mean, the more you stay hidden, the more people are going to come out and say things about you. so what's going to happen? he'll go on oprah and "60 minutes" and do this, and he has to say the truth. i've learned a big lesson of being a billionaire, a great golfer and icon, a famous person, and i have to put all those things together to be a great father and husband. >> larry: donald, do handlers play a part in this, people around him and yes nen? people who must have known the kind of life he was living and not say anything about it. >> the handlers are there. a lot of blood suckers. when you're famous like that, a lot of athletes have handlers all over the place. they have a big role in somebody's life. obviously tiger has some and maybe they didn't do him justice. >> did you think about your public image? didn't you care about what people thought about you, or you

didn't? >> obviously, people think -- no. that's because i'm famous. that's why i'm famous. i think donald understands it. i was a great marketing tool in what i've done in my career, and i used those things for it. i wasn't a bad guy. i was a bad boy as far as like marketing myself. as far as going out there and doing certain things, people know about me and some of the girls i've dated, people know about some of the things i've done. people don't hold me credible. it's like dennis was a bad guy. we know dennis is a good guy. he's a good guy. and tiger needs to come on out and just be a normal human being and everything will take care of itself. >> people got to know dennis really strongly on these celebrity apprentice, and he turned out to be not only a good guy but a highly competitive guy. if you think about it, you would assume that would be true. he really i think has shown very well. >> larry: we have one segment left, and we'll and if dennis

ever partied with tiger or donald after the break. okay, now here's our holiday gift list. aww, not the mall. well, i'll do the shopping... if you do the shipping. shipping's a hassle. i'll go to the mall. hey. hi. you know, holiday shipping's easy with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service. if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. yea, i know. oh, you're good. good luck! priority mail flat rate shipping starts at $4.95 only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship.

dennis, did you ever party with tiger? >> like back in the day when he first came out. when he first came out, started playing golf and getting very good probably in 1996, '97 we hung out a couple of times. >> larry: was he fun to be with? >> he's a great guy.

he's a down-to-earth guy. he's not a wild party guy. he's more subdued, probably smoke a cigar here and there. other than that, i don't see him drinking liquor all night long. maybe a glass or wine or something like that, other than that, he's not a bad guy. >> larry: donald, how did your friendship with tiger begin? >> mostly through golf. i own a lot of really great golf courses and tiger is there and i'd see him there. i got to know him a little bit. he's very special and truly special in terms of playing golf. he's really amazing. it's like taking the canvas away from rembrandt. you have to let tiger play golf. you just have to. for him to be sitting home not playing golf and i think dennis would agree, that's a terrible mistake. >> larry: you really came out and supported him tonight, donald. it took a little bit of guts. >> i'm a loyal person, and i think tiger is a loyal person in many respects to be honest with you. that's why he's working very, very hard to stay with the wife.

>> larry: i don't think loyal would be attributed to it now, donald. >> you know what? he's working very, very hard with the wife. i can tell you a lot of people would be gone. >> larry: tell me about rodman r raffle.org, they came for me to support them as far as their organization. they're a nonprofit organization, and lauren and miles are very nice to give their homework because times are tough now as donny knows, and they're giving the mission to st. francis and i'm here to support them and the mission. they've been around for 40 years and they've had 10,000 people. i'm just getting my service as a good guy, and most don't know about me. i give a lot of weight and give my service to people. i really love to thank donald trump for taking the opportunity to come back on the show and show face. >> larry: what do you want to say about dennis, donald? >> well, it was great having him

on the apprentice. he's a great character, and he really is a character. he's a unique person. but he really is -- you know, underneath all of that bluser there's a good guy, a nice guy. i respect dennis a lot. >> larry: donald, it should be pointsed out while he was wild, on the court there wasn't a more -- there wasn't a better team player. you know, he didn't need any -- he didn't shoot a lot. >> one of the greatest rebounders of all time. if you ask michael jordan or any great players on the team, dennis was a very important part of all the championship teams. >> larry: dennis, you're eligible for the basketball hall of fame next year. think you might make it? >> highway patrol so. you have carl malone and mike sdaish scottie pippen and you have me that's eligible. hopefully we all three get in. if i don't get in, i will be there to support scottie pippen. one of the greatest players on