worship is changing and what may change is how we spend our money. and whether we choose to have it better coincide with our values. i'm christine romans. i'm christine romans. thanks for watching. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> larry: tonight, president obama slams the money men. >> i did not run for office to be helping out a bunch of fat cat bankers on wall street. >> larry: and tells them to pay their profits forward. >> and now that they're back on their feet, we expect an extraordinary commitment from them to help rebuild our economy. >> larry: donald trump joins us with what he thinks. and the fallout from tiger

woods' infidelity, corporate backers backing out of deals with the disgraced golfer. will his self-imposed exile repair a reputation? nba bad boy dennis rodman is here with what it will take for tiger to claw his way out of controversy. plus -- ed harris tells us why a bloody world war ii battle is in the news now. next on "larry king live." tonight, penn gillette, author and producer, libertarian, a new webcast from larry elder called we've got a country to save.com. and robert reich, good to see robert again, professor of public policy university of california, berkeley, former labor secretary in the clinton administration. and here in new york, s.e. cupp the conservative columnist of

"the "new york daily news". obama pressed wall street bankers urging them to help rebuild the economy. listen to what he said. >> my main message in today's meeting was very simple. that america's banks received extraordinary assistance from american taxpayers to rebuild their industry and now that they're back on their feet, we expect an inordinate -- extraordinary commitment from them to help rebuild our economy. >> larry: let's start with miss cupp. what do you make of it? >> well, there's a couple of problems. tough talk is great, larry, but a little disingenuous when we're looking at a health care bill that's going to strangle small businesses. that's one. two, you know, i think this is a bit of a dog and pony show. these bankers are in a really tough spot, getting pressure from regulators not to lend, and now obama is coming in and saying lend or else.

you know, the lend or else is what got us here in the first place. lending to unqualified borrowers. >> larry: what does he do with all of the people out there that need mortgages and need money? >> i understand but you have to appreciate the fact that these bankers are trying to be responsible at a time when they've been excoriated for being irresponsible, and rightly so. >> reporter: >> robert reich, what's your read? >> the public has provided these bankers and banks with hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars to make up for the mess they created initially. now so many small businesses, main street businesses, people with mortgages and everybody else are finding they can't get credit. there's no quid pro quo. there's no deal here. bankers are getting ready for gigantic end-of-year bonuses something on the order of $20 to $30 billion. of course obama is going to have a dog and pony show. i hope it's more than that. i hope he actually says to them and says to members of congress, look, we're not going to allow wall street to get away with this.

we're not going to allow them to sick their lobbyists on congress and prevent congress from generating real reforms. so this kind of stuff doesn't happen again. >> larry: on "60 minutes" last night, the president hit out at wall street bankers, called them fat cats. watch. >> i did not run for office to be helping out a bunch of fat cat bankers on wall street. the only ones that will be paying out these fat bonuses are the ones that have now paid back that t.a.r.p. money. >> do you think that's why they paid it back so quickly? >> i think in some cases that was a motivation which i think tells me the people on wall street still don't get it. >> larry: larry elder, you've had a bad year. how do you justify a big bonus? >> well, how do you justify being bailed out for making bad decisions? we've had a policy in this country for many, many years that says if you have a pulse, you you should be able to apply and get a mortgage. we had freddie, fannie, then we have the community reinvestment

act. that distort the behavior of borrower and lender. they get in trouble and we bail them out. then we tell them to lend, that they ought not lend. let capitalism work and let them deal with consequences of bad decisions. if we had done that, we wouldn't be in the situation in the first place. going forward, that's what we ought to do. >> larry: in fairness, president bush started doing that, right? >> no. we've had freddie and fannie for a number of years. >> larry: no. i mean bailing out the banks. >> i agree with you. obama as senator voted for it. now he's acting as if it was a rash decision. he is one of the ones who supported it. we shouldn't have gotten involved in this at all. the banks should have failed. many of them didn't even want the t.a.r.p. money and those that were solvent could have bailed out the other ones. that's the way capitalism is supposed to work. >> larry: penn gillette, the report was he was rather cordial with the bankers today. does that surprise you, penn? >> no, because of simply numbers. there are not that many bankers. say whatever bad you want about them. things are going badly, people are looking for a scapegoat.

when he says they're getting, you know, $10 million bonuses, that's a huge number, but $700 billion it's really like he's talking about, what, a billion is a thousand millions so it's like one penny on $7,000? i mean, the numbers have to be thought about when you're talking about how much is being spent and trillions of dollars being thrown around. the president doesn't have time to talk about a $10 million bonus. it's not the bonuses that are the problem. >> larry: do the bankers get it, s.e.? >> i think they do. frankly saying the bankers don't get it and doing this public and private scolding, calling them fat cats -- >> larry: he apparently didn't privately scold. >> well, i don't know. i wasn't in the room. but all accounts are that it was friendly. of course, they watched "60 minutes." it was a scolding, very undignified and i think it makes the obama administration look a little out of touch. this administration has not yet learned that they don't have to

say every thought that comes into their head. valerie jarrett today came out after the meeting and basically implied we shouldn't really trust these business leaders. that's not an appropriate or professional thing to say. i think this administration needs to take back some dignity and professionalism. >> larry: we'll take a break and be back with more. robert i'll come right back starting with you. with penn jillette, larry elder, robert rrk eich, s.e. cupp, don't go away. and use the free savings calculator. we learned that changing your medicare part d plan could save an average of $612. woman: we just entered my prescriptions, and it compared plans for us. it was easy to find the right plan for the prescriptions i need. your cvs pharmacist can help, too. come in today, or go to cvs.com before december 31st to find the best plan for you -- at cvs/pharmacy.

>> larry: professor reich, puzzling the key people in his administration are wall street insiders, aren't they? >> some of them are. tim geithner was the head of the federal reserve put there by the major bankers. others have ties to wall street. but the fact of the matter is, larry, that this administration has tried to damp down, camp down, regulate wall street, but it needs to do much more. to be on the verge of awarding $20 to $30 billion of bonuses to its top executives in the face of all the money of taxpayers that went to wall street that the inspengtor general of the t.a.r.p. fund much of which is never going to be returned to taxpayers is the height of

hubris. the president, again, ought to force wall street not only to return all that money but also to return it with interest. and to, as i said, break them up, break up the big one withes and to resurrect glass steeg elle >> larry: larry, do you think government has no say in this at all? >> of course they have a say in it. you have to regulate against fraud and abuse. and banking industry is one of the more heavily regulated industries that we have. so, every regulation has a reaction. the banks will try to figure out some way around it. what you can do is police them to make sure they don't cheat people. beyond that there's not a whole lot you could do or should do. these banks made decisions. many of them were reckless decisions and they ought to deal with the consequences of those decisions. that's how you let the next guy down the road know how to improve his behavior. if you don't do that, you'll be back at same position down the road. >> larry: penn jillette, do you oppose regulation as a libertarian? >> did he say taxpayers will get the money back? does anybody thinks there would

actually be a check written back to us if they paid it back? that seems insane to me. also, if you give me -- larry, i'll make this deal with you right now. you give me $700 billion. you can call me anything you want anytime on any show you want anywhere. deal? >> larry: good point, isn't it, s.e. cupp? you take, you have to pay for the taking. >> absolutely. but the obama administration seems to be indignant at wall street forgetting the fact that they were behind these bailouts to begin with. and scolding them for using the money seems a little misplaced. i mean, the obama administration has to realize their own culpability here. >> larry: president obama sat down with oprah winfrey. she asked him how he would grade himself on a number of issues since he became president. watch. >> the economy is growing again. we are on our way out of iraq. i think we've got the best possible plan for afghanistan. we have reset our image around

the world. we are -- we have achieved an international consensus around the need for iran and north korea to disable their nuclear weapons. and i think that we're going to pass the most significant piece of social legislation since social security, and that's health insurance for every american. >> larry: let me get the panel's reaction after this. so many arthritis pain relievers -- i just want fewer pills and relief that lasts all day. take 2 extra strength tylenol every 4 to 6 hours?!? taking 8 pills a day... and if i take it for 10 days -- that's 80 pills.

just 2 aleve can last all day. perfect. choose aleve and you can be taking four times... fewer pills than extra strength tylenol. just 2 aleve have the strength to relieve arthritis pain all day. >> larry: before we discuss health care, let's get the panel's reaction to the record card. penn jillette, what grade do you give the president? >> he said b plus. that's the only possible answer you can give. any president, any time in history, any human being. if you ask me how i am as a husband, a driver, a juggler, a magician, i will answer b plus. higher than that, you're an ass. lower than that, you're pathologically honest.

the only possible answer is b plus. i would go to a-minus if i checked my rear view mirror and that's for all of those. >> larry: larry elder, what grade do you give? >> i would point out the american people had him at 43%, 44% in the latest rasmussen poll. if he were to run again today, he would not be reelected. >> larry: depending who ran against him, right? >> that's true. if i ran, he probably would get elected. i would give him a d minus on the economy. i like what he's doing in afghanistan. i don't like the fact that he put a deadline on it. and regarding our nato allies, yes, they do like him a lot better than they liked george w. bush. but until very recently they did not put a single combat troop in afghanistan. >> larry: what's your overall grade? >> overall grade on foreign policy, a b-plus on afghanistan except for the fact that he has a deadline. i give him an a continuing the bush policies on iraq. the rest of it, iran is still building a nuke.

north korea has not backed down and israelis and palestinians are upset with him because he told the israelis not to build any more settlements. not to expand them. >> larry: i asked a simple question, got an involved answer. >> a "d." >> larry: d, okay. sounded like it would be a c based on the a in there, but professor reich -- >> depends how much weight you give the a. >> larry: the only man who grades papers might have a thought. >> i've been doing it all day, larry. in terms of aspiration and goals and ideals i would give him an a. in terms of effort, just a sheer brute, getting in there and trying, the administration i give an a-minus maybe an a in terms of deliverables, what they've done so far, i have to be a much harsher grader, b-minus at best. i'm worried mostly about the economy. i think that there is no reason for the obama administration to claim that we're out of the woods. most americans don't believe it.

>> larry: and, s.e., your grade? >> it's almost christmas. i'm going to be charitable and give him a d-minus. >> larry: that's charitable? >> yeah. i don't want to be the scold here and say f. but he is systematically dismantling our national security, we're at record unemployment. he is going to have to answer for geithner and holder come 2012. if i'm an objective strategist, thinking about his chances, i'm very concerned because of those two issues. health care is not going to matter. i can tell you that right now. afghanistan is not going to matter. it's going to be the economy, unemployment and holder's decisions on cia interrogations and the 9/11 terrorists. >> larry: two senior democratic sources have told cnn that senate democrats are heading toward dropping the compromise idea to allow 55 to 64-year-olds to buy into medicare because of the opposition from independent senator joe lieberman. senate democrats had an

emergency meeting tonight to discuss the issue, which threatens to derail health care. the medicare buy-in concept was intended to -- i hope you're hearing me. i'm hearing lieberman. was intended to appease liberals. it upset that democratic leaders were dropping a public option. that ran into a wall when lieberman said he would support a gop filibuster to block health care if the provision was in the bill. what do you make of this compromise, penn? >> well, it kind of means there isn't much left of the health care in terms of any sort of public option. i mean, it's now just very similar to what we have, which is not good. >> larry: what do you think, larry? >> well, the whole thing is a bad idea. the idea was that it was not going to increase the deficit and it won't for the first ten years because for the first four years money is coming in without anything going out. the next ten years and the next ten years after that, money will be going out and less will be coming in. so he's not going to fulfill his

promise that this is not going to break the bank. it is going to break the bank. it's a rotten idea for the government to get more involved in health care than it already is. >> larry: you don't think there's a health care crisis with 48 million uninsured, larry? >> i think there are lots of ways to deal with it, including letting people buy insurance across state lines, giving individuals the same kind of tax break that is businesses have, allowing more competition. that's what will bring down the costs. but to put on millions of people and make this guy pay for that guy's health care and tell people with a straight face it's not going to increase overall costs is nonsense. >> larry: professor reich, am i my brother's keeper? >> well, we're all in the same boat together. i think there are a lot of good things in the health bill even if the compromise comes apart. telling and requiring that health insurance companies not look at pre-existing conditions and not drop people because they get sick and also covering 31

million more americans is good. what i'm most concerned about in the bill is there is not sufficient competition among private insurance companies. the entire insurance system, even in the bill, still depends on private, for-profit insurance companies and there's just -- we know that in at least nine states two private insurance companies dominate 85% of the market. they are consolidating like mad. there is no public option in that bill right now. i think that's dangerous. >> larry: s.e.? >> this health care bill, i think, is a disaster for small businesses. it's going to strangle small businesses. it's not 48 million uninsured. it's far less. that number has become sort of ubiquitous. >> larry: how do you know? >> because i've called the census bureau, and actually i think 11 million of that number is illegal immigrants. 4 to 5 million of that number are people my age who don't want health insurance but could afford it. when you get really right down to it it's more like 9 million. not that they should be ignored.

but why would we trample on the rights of the many to satisfy the rights of the few when most of us are pretty satisfied with what we have? we're going to be putting small businesses out of business because we're going to require them -- why would a small business owner, who can save 8% per employee by siphoning them off into some government health care option, why would they choose private health care? >> larry: we know donald trump has something to say about obama's fat cat remarks and a few other topics. he'll sound off right after the break. oil or cream? cream. some use hydrogenated oil. reddi-wip uses real dairy cream. nothing's more real than reddi-wip.

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>> larry: joining us now by phone is donald trump. donald, obama sat down with the banker today at the white house. it wasn't just a photo-op. you think they're listening to him? >> well, i think they're probably not listening to him, larry. we're in a situation where banks are not lending at all. they obviously don't have very much respect for the president, so it's a problem. but i saw the folks over at the white house. i just saw a newscast. they're obviously not listening. you're not going to get the economy going unless the banks start to lend, and they are not lending to anybody for virtually any reason. >> larry: but they took all this money. so what are they doing with it? >> well, they're buying airplanes like jamie diamond at jpmorgan chase has a whole big fleet of planes and i understand building a magnificent hangar. they're doing lots of wonderful things, but they're not lending

money. >> larry: how do they get away with it? don't they put a stipulation on the loans we gave them? >> i don't think they put much of a stipulation. you see what's going on. i can say you can have the finest job in the country. you can have the finest tenants in the country. if you go, as an example, for a mortgage to build a building or a construction loan, the banks will tell you, we love you very much, but there is -- there are no loans. loans are not available. i have cases where i have buildings where people bought a unit but can't get money to close the unit. they just can't get what they call end loans. they can't get them under any circumstances, great buildings. so the banks took in billions of dollars. i don't know what they're doing with the money. but i can tell you one thing they're not doing with it is lending. and another thing, you used to have many banks in new york. you used to have new york, chase, jp morgan, those two merged, chemical bank, you had them all over the place. today, you have very few banks. they've all merged. they've become monsters. if they go bad it's going to be a catastrophe. they should really do something possibly to break up the big

banks. >> larry: is the president between a rock and a hard place here? >> i don't think so. i think he is trying very hard but the banks are not listening. >> larry: so what does he do? >> well, he's got to get them to loan money. he's got to get them to put out the lends. if they don't do that, they're showing a great lack of respect for the president. >> larry: do they need more regulation? >> i don't think they need more regulation, larry. but something's haywire it's very interesting. rates are very low, but you can't get money. in theory, if you can't get money, the rates should be high. but rates are record low, but nobody can get money. strong people, really good people, people with high credit ratings, cannot get money. so something is wrong with the system. >> larry: so the obvious -- how did we get to this? >> well, look, it's been a long road. it's been a long and winding road. it was a mess a year ago. the various folks did really, i think, the right thing by stuffing the banks with money. because every bank would have been out of business no matter

how strong it was. you're going to have a run on the system, a run on the banks. so i listen to a lot of people say, they shouldn't have done that. let capitalism work. that would have been fine, but we would have gone through about a ten-year depression and we were really right there. so they did the right thing in putting the money into the banks. it kept the system alive. the problem is, larry, banks are not loaning the money. >> larry: overall in the economy, how is the president doing? >> i think you would have to say he's working very, very hard. but i'd like to just say incomplete. uf don't kn you don't know until -- finances are a really interesting and complex thing. you don't really know what's going to happen until you can look out with a crystal ball four or five years. nobody can do that. really the word would be "incomplete." but he is trying hard. he's doing his best. >> larry: is the recession over? >> the recession is over for the stock market because the stock market seems to go up. now, maybe it's either a great indicator, leading indicator or

it's going to be one hell of a bubble. it's going to be a blast. because something's wrong. the stock market is doing well and everything else is doing badly. and i have friends that run these big companies, big public companies. they say they're doing terribly but their stock keeps going up. >> larry: why is the stock market happy when unemployment goes up? >> nobody knows the answer. that's why either a leading indicator, which would be wonderful, or a bubble like you've never seen before. >> larry: are you optimistic? >> well, i'm pretty optimistic. but, again, we have no banking system. we have no banks. we have nobody to lend money to do projects. if i want to do a project where i'm going to employ thousands of people to build it, you can't get money from a bank. until you get the banking system working and make it effective, you are not going to have much of an economy, larry. you're going to have huge unemployment. >> larry: what do you make of that new gigantic city center in las vegas? >> well, it's a total catastrophe. first of all, it cost billions more than it was anticipated to, so that you have to blame the

company for and the people leading it. but it turned out to be a total catastrophe. >> larry: we'll take a break. hold, donald trump. when we come back we'll talk about another area of expertise, branding and tiger woods. don't go away. the all-new ram heavy duty. with a legendary 6.7-liter cummins turbo diesel. an all-new refined interior. it gives brains more to think with. it gives muscles more to work with. it gives trophy shelves more to deal with. introducing the 2010 motor trend truck of the year. ram.

donald trump remains with us. tiger woods, a friend of yours. one sponsor, accenture, has dropped him. some sponsors are middle-roading

it. and nike endorsed him today, staying with him. what do you make of this, donald? >> he's going through a very tough period of time. who would have ever thought? his career was so perfectly manicured and managed it was amazing. he really is a good guy. i know him and i like him and i respect him. and i wish to see him play golf. i mean, he is rembrandt on canvas. you can't take that canvas away. you know, it's something he should be doing. i can't imagine him, larry, sitting home with his wife, holding hands, watching hundreds of thousands of people walking down the fairways and watching phil mickleson or somebody else winning the masters. he's going to be sitting there holding his wife's hand? i don't get it. i don't see it. >> larry: hasn't your respect for him diminished at all? >> well, i know him and i like him and i really respected him the most as a great athlete, as a great golfer. i mean, i know him as a golfer. i never knew anything about his private life. i can tell you the private lives of many people are not what they would seem. but i do say this. his marriage is seriously --

it's going to be a very tough one to put together, larry. i mean, these women are coming out of the woodwork. it's going to be awfully tough. i just don't see tiger sitting there, holding hands, watching golf tournaments every weekend with his wife. >> larry: are you surprised nike stays in his camp? >> no, not at all because that one is based on golf. it's not based on other things. it's based on equipment that he hits a golf ball with. he hits it better than anyone else in the world, and nike does very well by it. we sell a lot of nike merchandise at my various places. so nike would stay. accenture probably has a more difficult situation. >> larry: what about the business of golf? we know the ratings are going to suffer because he doubles the ratings when he plays in tournaments. what about the overall business of golf? >> the business of golf will be fine. nobody is bigger than the game itself, even tiger. but i will tell you this. when he does come back, it will be super bowl-type ratings, if you think about it, larry. when tiger comes back, it will be tremendous ratings. however, you still have to win.

and as great as tiger is, with the kind of pressure that perhaps you could say he's put on himself, it's going to be even tougher. he has to get out and win because nothing works, as an example with kobe, who i also happen to like a lot. if kobe didn't get out and play so well and win, it wouldn't be quite the same thing. tiger's got to go out and win, and i believe he will. >> larry: should he come forward in some arena like "larry king live," oprah or some place and make an interview appearance? >> well, i think eventually that will happen. right now it doesn't seem to be. you know, he's trying to put the marriage back together. i think it's a very tough thing to do. i mean, i speak maybe a little bit negatively when i say that, but i think it's a very, very tough thing to do. put something together where the trust has been so badly broken. it's very tough. i've seen it many times. i've watched it many times and it's very, very tough to build back that trust, no matter what you do. so i really think tiger should just go about his life, go to the tournaments, win the

tournaments, play better golf than anybody else and just sort of let the rest take care of itself. >> larry: does he owe the public anything? >> i don't think he owes the public. >> larry: other than playing golf? >> no, he owes the public nothing. tiger was always known as a good boy. maybe he should be known as the bad boy. maybe the marriage doesn't work out. he'll go with 5,000 women, have a great time, even better than your life, larry, hard to duplicate. he'll have a great time, win tournaments and be the bad boy. instead of having disney world he will have casinos or somebody endorsing him. but frankly, i really think it's going to be very, very tough. it's going to be a very testify period of time for tiger. the main thing is that he focus on golf and he win. i don't know what's going to happen in terms of relationship. but it's going to be a very tough period of time. >> larry: by the way, we'll hold you a little bit. dennis rodman is up next. he was one of your apprentice guys. >> dennis was on "the apprentice," a really good guy.

i will stay for dennis. >> larry: we want to get his thoughts on this. you and dennis may not agree. folks, what do you think of tiger's troubles? go to cnn.com/larryking. click on blog. tell us. we love hearing from you. donald sticks around. talking more tiger with dennis rodman in 60 seconds. i go down to the pool for a swim... get out and dance... even play a little hide-n-seek. i'm breathing better... with spiriva. announcer: spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled maintenance treatment for both forms of copd, which includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. i take it every day. it keeps my airways open... to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announcer: spiriva does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. stop taking spiriva and call your doctor if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, or have vision changes or eye pain. tell your doctor if you have glaucoma, problems passing urine or an enlarged prostate, as these may worsen with spiriva. also discuss the medicines you take, even eye drops.

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celebrity appearance, and rodman the greatest rebounder in the history of professional basketball. the possessor of five championship rings. donald, give us your quick ten type of dennis rodman. >> here you go. >> dennis is a winner, larry, he was on "the apprentice," we had a lot of time together. he did fantastically well. i gained a great respect. he's a champion. he has five rings and how many people have five rings at anything? so dennis knows i like him a lot and he was great on the show. by the way, the ratings were fantastic. so i like him even more. >> larry: dennis, what's your thoughts on the whole tiger woods thing? >> well, my thoughts are just like donald's. i think tiger needs to get back outside and just be -- just live his life. i think the home life is not in good shape but i think that's -- as far as a personal entity he is still very marketable. most of the people that have dumped him now will understand he will come back bigger, stronger than ever.

he has to work on his home life. i'm no one to say that, right? it's, like, wow! but i think we all love tiger. he is a great guy. one thing people in this industry have to understand, we built this man to be this great god. we didn't ask tiger woods to come out and say i'm not bad. i'm not good. he's a great golfer. i'm pretty sure he's a great dad. and all these girls are coming out right now just making all these assumptions. >> larry: what about the endorsements? nike is sticking by him. but the rest are wavering and accent tur dropped him. >> you have to weigh all the options and with me i lost a couple of endorsements. you know what? it's not all about endorsements. it's about fixing your life and understanding how the world works. i think tiger has made over $1 billion in less than ten years. he has done a lot of great things for people around the world. i think he's not bigger than

golf. i think golf needs him. and the people needs him. i think as far as americans, we are so forgiving, no matter what we do in the world, we could be normal, abnormal, we could be great, we could be fantastic. we could be infamous. we could be famous. no matter what we do, people here in america is always going to give you a second, third chance. >> larry: donald, if you had a product, would you have tiger endorse it? >> well, the answer is always yes because he's just a guy that i like a lot. but it really would depend on what the product is. i can see accenture maybe taking their stance. i can also see -- i never had a doubt that nike, that's all about hitting the ball. i never had a doubt that nike would stay with him and some of the others will stay with him. but tiger is going to be a little bit different. his image over the years will be a lot different probably than it was. and that's not necessarily so bad. i mean, look at dennis. dennis' image is slightly different. and dennis does just fine. hey, larry, tiger will be a different guy. but i agree with dennis.

he has a chance to be bigger and better than ever. that's a big statement. >> larry: let me get a break. back with more. more tiger talk with two top people, dennis rodman and donald trump, together here. more after this. 1,400 lbs of cargo. but only one can do it while driving on electricity. the gmc sierra hybrid. the most fuel-efficient full-size pickup on the road. may the best truck win. we go to great lengths to exceed your expp4tations.

the 5-year, 100,000 mile transferable powertrain warranty, from gmc. with roadside assistance and courtesy transportation, it's the best coverage in america. >> larry: rodman runs a great organization. go to rodman raffle.org. i salute you for that. >> thank you, brother. >> larry: people are complaining that mr. knight of nike is supporting him. he's taken a lot of hits for that. do you understand that? >> i'm supporting him also, so they have to complain against me and dennis.

i know plenty that are supporting him. it's his personal life. it's unfortunate. i certainly never saw tiger in this light, but you know what? i know him and like him. he happens to be a good guy. >> larry: dennis, should he come forward in another forum than issuing press releases? >> i think in my position being a bad boy, i think you just go out and live life, man. i think you can't do anything now because a lot of women are coming out and just chasing him because he's tiger woods. i think if he was an average guy, people wouldn't care. he's such an icon and legend right now, such a young age. he needs to come out, play golf somewhere. go down the street and play golf. go to vegas, see donald trump, go to new york, the hamptons. go somewhere. >> larry: he would be hounded, though. >> it doesn't matter. sooner or later you have to come out and let people see you. i mean, the more you stay hidden, the more people are going to come out and say things about you. so what's going to happen? he'll go on oprah and "60 minutes" and do this, and he has to say the truth. say, you know, i've learned a

big lesson about being a billionaire, a great golfer, a great icon, a famous person. i've got to put all those things together to be a great father and husband. >> larry: donald, do handlers play a part in this, people around him and yes men? people who must have known the kind of life he was living and not say anything to him about it. >> sure, the handlers are there, a lot of bloodsuckers. i'm not talking about tiger necessarily. when you're famous like that, a lot of athletes have handlers all over the place. they have a big role in somebody's life. obviously tiger has some handlers and maybe they didn't do him justice. >> larry: dennis, did you think about your public image? didn't you care about what people thought about you, or you didn't? >> obviously, people think -- no. that's because i'm famous. that's why i'm famous. i think donald understands it. i think he knew i was a great marketing tool, what i've done in my career, and i used those things for it.

i wasn't a bad guy. i was a bad boy as far as like marketing myself. as far as going out there and doing certain things, people know about me and some of the girls i've dated, people know about some of the things i've done. people don't hold me credible. as far as, like, hey, dennis is a bad guy. we know dennis is a good guy. he's a good guy. everyone know tiger is a good guy. and tiger needs to come on out and just be a normal human being and everything will take care of itself. i think donald understands that. >> people got to know dennis really strongly on the celebrity apprentice, and he turned out to be not only a good guy but a highly competitive guy. and if you really think about it, you would assume that would be true, but he really i think has shown very well. >> larry: we have one segment left, and we'll and if dennis ever partied with tiger or donald ever partied with tiger. after the break.

>> larry: dennis, did you ever party with tiger? >> probably like back in the day when he first came out. when he first came out, started playing golf and getting very good probably in 1996, '97 we hung out a couple of times. >> larry: was he fun to be with? >> he's a great guy. he's a down-to-earth guy. he's not dennis rodman, a wild party guy. he's more subdued, probably smoke a cigar here and there. other than that, i don't see him drinking liquor all night long. maybe a glass or wine or something like that, other than that, he's not a bad guy. >> larry: donald, how did your friendship with tiger begin? >> mostly through golf. i own a lot of really great golf courses and tiger is there and i'd see him there. i got to know him a little bit. he's just very special and truly special in terms of playing

golf. i mean, the guy is really amazing. it's like taking the canvas away from rembrandt. you have to let tiger play golf. you just have to. for him to be sitting home not playing golf and i think dennis would agree, that's a terrible mistake. >> right. >> larry: you really came out and supported him tonight, donald. it took a little bit of guts. >> well, i'm a loyal person, and i think tiger is a loyal person in many respects to be honest with you. that's one of the reasons he's obviously trying very, very hard to stay with the wife. >> larry: i don't think "loyal" would be attributed to him right now, donald. >> you know what? he's working very, very hard with the wife. i can tell you a lot of people would be gone. >> larry: tell me about rodmanraffle.org. >> they came to me to support

them as far as their organization. they're a nonprofit organization, and lauren and miles are very nice to give their homework because times are tough nows as donald knows. they're giving the mission to st. francis and i'm here to support them and the mission. they've been around for 40 years they've helped 10,000 people. i'm just giving my service as a good guy. most people don't know about me. i give a lot of weight and give my service to people. i'd really like to thank donald trump for taking the opportunity to come back on the show and show face. >> larry: what do you want to say about dennis, donald? >> well, it was great having him on the apprentice. he's a great character, and he really is a character. he's a unique person. but he really is -- you know, underneath all of that bluster there's a good guy, a nice guy. and i respect dennis a lot. >> larry: donald, it should be pointed out while he was wild, on the court there wasn't a more -- there wasn't a better team player. you know, he didn't need any -- he didn't shoot a lot. he passed off. s was a great rebounder.

>> one of the greatest rebounders of all time. if you ask michael jordan or any of the great players on the team, dennis was a very important part of all of those championship teams. >> larry: dennis, you're eligible for the basketball hall of fame next year. think you might make it? >> i hope so. you've got karl malone, scottie pippen and me that's eligible. hopefully we all three get in. if i don't get in, i will be there to support scottie pippen. one of the greatest players on the court. >> larry: thank you both, very much. dennis, hang tough. donald, as always we appreciate the time. >> thank you, larry. >> larry: a world war ii veteran returns to the site of one ever the bloodiest battles in marine history. he and ed harris join us, next. marie callender's homestyle creations -- a little touch of home for lunch.

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>> larry: there is an extraordinary new documentary. it will air on the military channel on monday december 21st. they will repeat it often, knowing the military channel. it's brilliantly done. joining us to discuss us are ed harris, the oscar nominated actor and filmmaker who narrates a "return to tarawa." leon cooper, the world war ii veteran, survivor, present, of the pacific theater and steven c. barber, the producer and director of this documentary. how did you come about to do this? >> i was on a mountain bike ride 13 years ago and i ran into eddie albert. long story short, he invited me in, we got to be good friends. during the interview process he showed me this medal he had won. he was in the battle of tarawa.

told me all about it, told me we lost 3,000, 4,000 men. fast-forward ten years, i meet this gentleman. i asked him -- we were at the book fair at ucla. i said, did you know eddie albert? he said, absolutely. i remember seeing him, japanese bull etds were flying flgt he was dragging marines out of the bay. i said, leon, that's 65 years ago. how could you remember that? he said that's something you'll never forget. >> larry: ed, how did they get you involved? >> i'm not sure who asked me, but i met with steven and leon, and he told me his story and what he was doing and the documentary they were working on. i saw the film and i said, yeah, i'd be happy to help out. i mean, i really like -- i appreciate people of passion and have a lot of respect for my elders. i was glad to help leon out. >> did you know about tarawa? >> not at all. my dad was in wwii but in the

army and in europe. i knew there was a lot of hellish battles in the pacific, but i did not know any specifics really. >> larry: my former father-in-law fought in tarawa, a lot of those battles, but he wouldn't talk about it. why, leon? every time i would ask him, he wouldn't talk about it. it's pretty difficult for you to allow yourself to remember all the terrible things that happen. ive do want to say this before we get too far along. i want to have your viewers know how lucky we are to have ed harris be the narrator of this film, to lend his good name to an important film. >> larry: no kidding. >> with his good name, i'm convinced that many more people would have seen this film and have known about what we've been trying to do. >> larry: there is this wonderful memorial in washington now finally, the world war ii

veterans, they deserved it for a long time, long time coming. we'll show you a clip from this. leon cooper returned there last year. here is a clip of what happened from the documentary film "return to tarawa." a word of caution. you might find some of these images disturbing. watch. >> i smell the stench of all those bodies rotting in the sun, still comes back to me. all that stink of guys decomposing. i came ashore about here, between here and the pier, and i crossed behind the seawall. and the japs were shooting at me from up there somewhere. they shooting at me from every [ bleep ] angle there was. i'm just -- i can't stand it. look at the sand here. i couldn't get anywhere near the [ bleep ] sand. i was hung up on the reef.

>> larry:or this battle was fought from november 20, 1943, to november 23, three days. it ended in an american victory, the first u.s. offensive in the critical central pacific region,s the first time the united states faced serious japanese opposition. what caused you to cry there? >> i remembered all those kids being shot. that memory will never leave me. i'm two with feet away from me, a kid in his teens being cut to pieces. how the hell i survived i don't know. i remember my mother sending me letters from time to time, son, be careful. you can't be careful in a war. you either are lucky or you're not. >> the brutality of the tarawa campaign would soon hit home. when the american public began to see the pictures of the casualties and devastation in late december 1943,he