all the things we can talk about off the air. >> that's the private version. >> exactly. get some sleep tonight. >> okay. i'll try. >> we'll see you tomorrow. thanks. that does it for this edition of "360." thanks for watching. larry king starts right now. >> larry: tonight al qaeda claims responsibility for trying to bomb a u.s. airliner out of the sky on christmas. making america pay for reported strikes in yemen, and they threaten more attacks. plus, the first homeland security chief, tom ridge. what does he think of janet napolitano's controversial remarks that the system worked? and her little back pedaling today. he'll tell us if president obama's response is tough enough. >> we will continue to use every

almo element of our power to defeat those that threaten us. >> larry: all that and more, next, on "larry king live." >> larry: good evening. the christmas day bomb plot story is getting more interesting by the hour. we have ed henry cnn senior white house correspondent with us from hawaii, and nic robertson senior international correspondent in london to talk about the very latest developments. cnn has obtained photos of the underwear bomb the terror suspect allegedly used to try to bring down flight 253. nic, what do these interesting to say the least photos tell us? >> they tell us this is the way the bombs were hid. i he spent a good part of today with a bomb-making expert that showed me the explosives, the petn, this powder or pastelike

explosive and destructive force. what's interesting is we learned this is a very, very stable substance. you can bang it quite hard and wear it for thousands of air miles and don't have to worry about the explosives going off inadvertently. we watched a test today with enough explosives to fill the cap of my pen here, and it blew a huge dent in a tiny piece of aluminum about double thickness of an aircraft skin. the amount of explosives in that underwear enough to smash a hole in the side of an aircraft, larry. >> larry: would all those people have been killed, do you think? >> that's what experts are weighing up. several things factor in. could the aircraft have landed with a big, gaping hole in the side? possibly. that's been done before. if some of the control mechanisms had been damaged, if the fuel tank nearby where he was sitting had exploded because it was mostly empty and fumes at

the end of a long flight, that could have brought the plane down. it could have been very, very tough. he would not wanted to be on that aircraft when that bomb went off, larry. >> larry: the president breaks off a golf game and rushes back to the compound. what happened? >> we were here covering this story, and we get word that the president broke off the golf game and the motorcade left the golf course at a rapid speed to go back to his home. we understand an ambulance was speeding away from the home. given the nature of the threat, the given the developments of the last couple days, a lot people were alarmed. one of the children, a family friend stays with the obamas for the holidays, had cut open his chin. his father was one of the golfing partners of the president. so the president wanted to make sure the father saw his son and get the medical attention needed. for a brief few moments, though, there was a scare perhaps there was a security scare at the

home. thankfully, we were told the young boy is getting better now, larry. >> larry: ed, the president made his first public comments about the failed christmas day terror attack today. here's a little of what he said. >> this was a serious reminder of the dangers we face and the nature of those who threaten our homeland. had the suspect succeeded in bringing down that plane, it could have killed nearly 300 passengers and crew. innocent civilians preparing to celebrate the holidays with their families and friends. the american people should be assured that we are doing everything in our power to keep you and your families safe and secure during this busy holiday season. >> larry: ed, what was your reaction to that? >> reporter: well, you know, in talking to some of the president's senior-most aides, they say he's getting up to a half-dozen briefings a day on this in the broader terror threat even while on vacation in

hawaii. we picked that up in the last few moments. that tells you they realize this is one of this president's first real tests as commander in chief as he closes his first year, to protect the american homeland. i think they had a little issue that you noted at the top about the fact the president didn't speak for a few days, and instead was content to put out his homeland security chief janet napolitano. instead she said the system worked, and obviously it doesn't appear that the system worked. that may have been one of the factors in getting the president out there to try to calm the american public, larry. >> larry: nic, prior to obama's statement al qaeda in the arabian peninsula issues a statement taking credit for all this. what's the reaction to that? >> reporter: you have to look at it, larry, with a little bit of scynicism and say this is al qaeda taking opportunity out of someone else's success? are they boosting their own support because they need more recruits and getting a hard time in afghanistan, pakistan, and

inside iraq as well. but they did say some things in this statement that do, perhaps, bear out a little bit of truth. they say that they developed this special bomb that abdulmutallab alleged to use on the aircraft. they say they designed it and tested it to be able to get around security systems. it used petn, this highly explosive material. well, we know a yemenee tried to kill the prime minister. when they went after al qaeda a week before christmas, in one of their camps what did they find? petn, this same explosive used in this underwear bombs. some things say al qaeda may have had something to do with it. larry. >> larry: what, ed, is the administration's response to al qaeda's statement? >> reporter: exactly as nic

said. they don't want to give it too much credence yet because al qaeda could be puffing itself up here. this suspect could be trying to exaggerate his own influence with a terror group. he could be making up these statements about having ties to al qaeda. they're being very cool to it it and not independently confirming the al qaeda connection. the other key point i make is that today in his remarks the president said the u.s. will not just stay on defense and beef that up, but will stay on offense and go after the terrorists in places like yemen. why that's significant is in the al qaeda statement today, they claimed that the attempted terror threat on christmas day was a retaliation for air strikes against al qaeda in yemen in recent days. the u.s. has not claimed credit or responsibility for those air strikes taking out al qaeda leaders in recent days, but the president going out publicly and telling the world we're staying on offense against terrorists in yemen seemed like a clear signal when you talked to top white house aides that the u.s. is

trying to root out terrorists in yemen and there's a real confrontation going on behind the scenes, larry. >> larry: thank you. is america taking the right steps to combat terrorism? we'll ask the former homeland security chief, the first homeland security chief, old friend tom ridge next. (announcer) we understand. you want time to enjoy the holidays.

we welcome to "larry king live" former governor of pennsylvania tom ridge. he was the first united states secretary of homeland security from 2001 through 2003.

he's president and ceo of ridge global and author of the book "the test of our times: america under siege and how we can be safe again." tom was telling me during the break kind of an ironic story. want to repeat it, tom? >> a friend of mine who worked with me in the white house and called me on december 22nd and reminded me this past year that december 22nd, 2001 is the richard reid attempt. remember the shoebomber and part of the explosive material he detonated at that time was the the same material this terrorist used as well. interesting eight years. >> larry: what's your reaction to the president's statement today? >> i think he's spot on with regard to beefing up security patrol proet caltocols and watc. i think one of the most interesting observations they haven't made, and i know secretary napolitano clarified

her statement today. we were only a consumer of information and didn't generate it. you can only act on those things that you know, and the question remains in my mind, what was the e-mail or what was the communication from the department of state, from the counselor's office to the terrorist screening center? the department of homeland security doesn't run the tse. that's the department of justice and the fbi. so there's a shared responsibility to keep us safe, but there's shared ktdabiliac t accountabili accountability. what's the mentality and culture, to make sure more information, particularly those with that kind of information that sends warning signals out gets to the people that act on it. whether they're in the battlefield in iraq or afghanistan or screener in an airport, you need actionable information. i'm not sure all this information was in the hands of tsa at the time. >> larry: should the president have spoken sooner? >> well, i think those decisions -- i'm going to leave

that to the white house. he had secretary napolitano out there speaking, and i think she clarified that one -- the statement she made yesterday. i understood it. i understood what she was talking about. i don't think any right-thinking person unless you're very, very partisan actually believe that secretary napolitano thought the system worked. obviously, it was flawed. i think what she was referring to was that after the incident occurred there are certain procedures and protocols put in place. that worked smoothly. obviously, someone on a watch list who has bought a one-way ticket and paid cash and his father, his father shows up at the counselor office, a reputable businessman and says, i think my son has gone radical, all these pieces, all these warning signals portray, create a puzzle, a picture that is very threatening and nobody did anything about it. it reminds me of what happened in the hassan case six to eight weeks ago.

you had different pieces of information and nobody connected them. there's enough there to tell you this is a dangerous situation, but nobody is communicating. left-hand si >> larry: the current secretary tried to clarify it it today. >> you said throughout this the system worked smoothly. what exactly worked in your opinion? >> that's a phrase taken out of context. what i said is moving forward, meaning once the incident happened, we were able to immediately notify the 128 flights in the air as well as airports on the ground domestically, internationally. our law enforcement partners, our other allies instituted immediate safety procedures to make sure that this could not happen on other flights and that people were watching out for it on other flights as we focused on what went wrong prior to this one. >> you recognize it didn't work smoothly leading up to this? >> obviously, it didn't. no secretary of homeland security would say that.

>> larry: governor, have a lot of things been prevented that we don't know about? >> well, i think there have been. one of the things you don't know about is the number of people that we have turned away because their name has been on the watch list he or on the no-fly list. the challenge, i think, associated with this incident, larry, isn't what secretary napolitano said or her clarification. it's that the clash of consulul that i encountered, the difference between the old institutions of the cold war, be they lauchw enforcement or the intelligence committee and the new department, the department of homeland security. the old cold war mentality is need to know. the new paradigm, the new enemy requires a need to share. when the president said today he wants to scrub the watch list and see -- see what the gaps were, understand precisely why

the total picture was not available to the terrorist screening centers so that person could have have boarded that plane. why the state department didn't revoke his visa immediately is beyond belief in my judgment either. but the at the heart of this, it's a clash of cultures. dhs can only act on information it gets, and i'm not sure they had all the information at its disposal. >> larry: is america more or less secure. we'll ask governor ridge about the time president bush left office until now in 60 seconds. u pursue them with confidence. by preparing you for tomorrow. while protecting what you have today. you've counted on us for 200 years. let's embrace tomorrow. and with the hartford behind you, achieve what's ahead of you. it and with the hartford to the heart of belfast... it might be because you met tom...

who owns the fishing boat. the castle is actually 300 years of age. a mermaid darts in dark hollow... light drips in shimmering scale... did i merely see a girl that day... and drm the glorious tail? but i'd still recommend you visit belfast... before you leave northern ireland. >> larry: tom, we have bodies. we can examine bodies and see through clothing and we beefed up security everywhere and we have watch lists. are we safer? >> i think clearly we're safer, but it's also equally clear, given the several incidents that occurred in the last couple months in this country, that we still have very serious gaps in

information sharing. and that we've learned, given this recent incident, that these are individuals who are fairly strategic in their thinking. they're very patient. we have a long, long way to go. we're going to be at this for a long, long time. i think for a generation or two. i guess i'm concerned that over years that we've lost the senseful urgency. we're not paying attention to the minutia, the details critical in making the assessment as to whether somebody should be on a plane or not. ints profiling. it's about taking a look at very important critical pieces of information and making sure that they're shared with the decision-make hers. i'm afraid some of the events over the past couple months have suggested that that old paradigm, the need to know, has maybe been receded in some of these organizations. it doesn't appear to me that there's a willingness to share that kind of information we need to make america as safe as we

want it to be. they're shared upon tresponsibi across the board. >> isn't it like human nature? if you have a heart attack, it's a terrible third week, second week. if you feel good a year later, you don't think as much about taking care. >> that's all right if you're an individual citizen taking care of -- and you want to pay little or less attention to your own welfare, but professionals have responsibilities to be vigilant 24/ 24/7. we have a responsibility in all the multiple agencies across the federal government to be as sensitive to see possibility of a terrorist attack today, tomorrow, in the future as we were on september 12th, 2001. we're not as sensitive. we don't have that sense of urgency, and it's about time to recommit ourselves to it. >> larry: what do you make of the information that two former gitmo detainees released during the bush administration are among the leadership of al qaeda

in the arabian peninsula, the same group claiming sfont for the christmas attack? what do you make of that? >> i'm not surprised. we know we release some people from guantanamo that we ended up killing on the battlefields over in that region. i guess, again, it's a symptom of a larger challenge this country has. that is how do you jude indicate the individuals we pick up and make a determination as to whether or not they should be incarcerated for a long time if not permanently. i never thought the issue was guantanamo because some of the people should be incarcerated forev forever. i'm not surprised it happened. we have to remind ourselves that the process and, again, i look at this individual who has been charged criminally. does that mean he's going to get his miranda warnings and the only kind of information we want to get from him is if he volunteers if? he's not a citizen of this

country. he is a terrorist. i don't think he deserves the full range of criminal protections of our criminal justice system as embodied in the constitution of the united states. >> larry: you miss being in the hunt? >> i miss working with the extraordinary group of men and women who helped me build the department, and frankly i miss not knowing. you asked me some questions. i wish i could provide you more specific information if it was possible to do so without violating confidences. i still stay in tough with a lot of good people who continue to work hard and keep america safe. >> larry: we'll keep constantly in touch with you. >> thank you very much. >> larry: happy holidays. >> same to you. >> larry: governor tom ridge, the first u.s. secretary of homeland security. will tighter airport security make flying safer? go to cnn.com/larryking and answer it. we'll be right back. it from me, but this malibu, it offers better highway mileage than a comparable camry or accord.

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>> larry: we have an outstanding panel to take all this in. peter bergen is in washington, and also in washington is jack rice, former cia officer and now journalist and syndicated talk radio host. in new york is harvey, and he's a terrorism expert as well, and chairman of the department of criminal justice at long island university and author of "holy war on the home front: the secret islamic terror network in the united states." finally in washington, larry c. johnson. he served as deputy director of the u.s. state department's office of counterterrorism. he's ceo and founder of --

co-founder of berg associates. peter bergen, was the president's statement today satisfactory? >> yeah, i think it was satisfactory. if the plane had blown up, obviously, he would have made a statement earlier. i think so, yeah. >> larry: what do you think, jack? >> obviously, there's enough problems here that he had to address this. i think it was sufficient that napolitano and robert gibbs ultimately stepped up early thangfully because there were no deaths here, we didn't see the president's necessity to speak. on the other hand it's beneficial for people to realize he's watching this and being briefed on this regularly. it's a positive accept for all americans to know. >> larry: harvey, cnn has photos of what remains of the device which the suspect tried to blow up 253. they show singed underwear with a pact of powder sewn into the crotch. would you class this as

sophisticated? >> it seems to be a new type of device peculiar to that region. yemen seems to work with petn, and this type of divisioevice t were experimenting with this. they had enough explosive power to take down that a-330 airbus and kill all passengers and 11 crew members aboard. quite frankly, the machinery in place and technology could not detect that except possibly a scanning machine. certainly the puffer might have picked up some of the trace elements of it. it's frightening that eight years after 9/11 somebody could board a plane with that kind of sophisticated type of weapon and look what we are dealing with today. >> larry: what do you make of the news, larry, that first al qaeda takes credit and second two former gitmo detainees both

released during the bush administration are among the leadership of al qaeda? >> i'm glad they've taken credit, because if nothing else this boosts the united states' position with the government of yemen to launch military strikes. they're not terribly bright. when they create that profile, it makes them easier to kill them. the gitmo detainees got back in the fight. they're fair game. we need to correct one statement, and my friend harvey wasn't incorrect. we're not talking about eight years, larry, but 15 years. it was december 1994 when usef the bomber of the first world trade center boarded a plane in the southern philippines and built a device in the air that was made of tatp, gun cotton, cotton balls, and left it on the plane and got off and it blew up. it was a precursor for the plan to blow up 12 jumbo jets over

the pacific. we deal with it for 15 years, anded sad reality is we have not taken any firm members to protect passengers in terms of installing detection systems at paengs screening checkpoints. secretary ridge when he was in place, he did an excellent job of professionalizing tsa and putting screeners there, he did an excellent job of requires explosive detection systems for check bag kaj. they did not arrest the issue of how to screen passengers to prevent them from carrying explosives on board. >> what's the story with yemen? highway do you read this? now deeply rooted. >> it's completely at face value. they try to kill the interior deputy minister with a petn bomb on august 28th. the guy hid it in 4iz underwear

and got through metal detectors. he almost killed the prince and himself in that attack. they learned from that attack that it was possible to get this stuff past metal detectors. by the way, petn is rarely used in terrorism attacks. the only ones are done by al qaeda including richard reid, the so-called shoebomber. aid colleague who to use the terrible pun caught a indicate of cold feet and do not go through with his show bomb attack. he actually had a shoe bomb in his house in the unatured kingd kingdom. he's now in prison, but the reason is it would be very naive to presume this is the only person out there. that would be wishful thinking. while it was unusual as larry points out, it was operator airor or the bomb wasn't made correctly. they have demonstrated they can get it it through, and that is a problem that we're unfortunately going to deal with in the

future. >> the security reviews the president has ordered, will they do any good? we'll talk about it right after the break.

>> larry: jack rice, the new security reviews the president has implemented, are they going to work? >> we certainly hope so. the fact is there's accessibility out there. whether the capability is in place in some areas if we had taken the intelligence that was available in this case, sometimes with people they say if we profile this guy in the negative sense. i don't think that's necessary, based on the information that was available, not just the fact that he was on a watch list, admittedly a massive one. he was paying cash and flying one way and his father said we have issues here, just for those

reasons alone. i've been stopped in multiple airports based on what i've done. the fact it's happened to me and many others, it's shocking this wasn't done in lagos or amsterdam or anyplace else. that's a failure with everything we have in place right now. >> larry: harvey, do you agree with tom ridge that we get a little lax? >> yeah, i certainly agree with him. i think more importantly what this former secretary said, which i think is key, he talked about culture. i could tell you this, larry. there are different cultures even within different agencies that need to cooperate with each other and get data immediately to those who need to know. actionable data. larry johnson has worked for the state department and caa. there are different cultures in those agencies, and we don't have a unified system with dhs in which we have information, even let's say we had 500,000 pieces of information.

shifting it back and forth between agencies and getting it to tsa or local or state law enforcement is a monumental efforts. working with local law enforcement, we don't get real time data quickly enough from so-called feds. i think that reliefs the issue. i don't know if what the president said will rectify that situation. >> larry: larry, do you agree with tom ridge when he said need to know became need to share and we seem to go back to need to know? >> not really. the problems that exist today existed under tom ridge and existed under michael chertoff. let me give you a he quick example. i was down at mcdill air force base. we had to come up with who was the name at fema that was the point of handling emergency response. we go onto the security -- the secret classified level computer and pull up the department of energy fema website. the photograph of the person in charge was michael heck of a job brown. larry, this was three years

after the guy left his job. that's under the government computer. so, you know, we can't blame a new culture from obama. i've been a critic of the obama administration, but i think it's disingenerous to say they're treating it differently than others. the fact is under the administration you've killed non ha haan, and you've gone after the pirates off of the coast of somalia. they've had some successes. they haven't let up on going out and doing some cam tur kill operations. as you noted earlier it was two people released during the bush administration that wound up back on the battlefield in yemen. the bush administration is not dealing with that properly, so we wintd out up how to deal with terrorists? do we treat them according to our rules of law or put nem a military tribunal. throws them back so they can

come back and fill us again, that's not a plan i believe in. >> can we really win a war against terrorism? that's right after this. [ female announcer ] treat yourself to something special for lunch.

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even if this guy had succeeded on that plane, that would have been a very, very, very big deal. i'm not sure it would have been a 9/11 style event. maybe in the post-9/11 world it would have been. we've had american planes blow up and kill a lot of passengers. that didn't reorient american foreign policy. winning looks like terrorism is going to be with us forever. the question is is it our major national strategic problem or a second order threat? that's, i think, a reasonably possible scenario. >> larry: jack, can we preempt it? >> no, i don't think you can win this win. i think it's a false premise. this is a whole series of battles one after the other, and those battles are to take out the bad guys in one sense. it's also to convince the rest. of the muslim world 1.3 billion people or more. it's about moefting them to

accept up for their own benefit. it's one series of battles after another, and to take out their capability is what's important. peter is absolutely right when it comes to that issue. >> it's always reactive. they're the offense and they have the ball and they know where we're going. we have to react to where they're going, right? >> that's absolutely right. two things to extend what peter and jack said. i agree with peter. we shouldn't be able to limit it and i agree with jack when he mentioned identifying muslim and all 1.5 billion muslims. we're not at war with terrorism, just like we're not at war with blitzkrieg. we have to identify who the enemy is and narrowly define it. in that case we probably can peel that way and win that part of it. but it's a difficult process because unfortunately most of the people who perform terrorist acts against american assets here and abroad have a common variable, and that is this

islamic fact. we're not at war with islam but a certainly portion of it. we have to surgically remove that in order to contain it. >> larry: larry, what do you think? >> i think, larry, we're in a he better today than we were on august 1st, 2001. we have a lot of talented men and women both in the military and cia and fbi that are working together in some areas and goou and debilitated and destroyed key fundamentalalist targets. that needs it to keep up. i like to think more of managing crabgrass. it may never go away, but you can keep it from taking over your yard and creating a complete danger for everyone. some of these crazies have seen them but we've seen them overreach. when they tried to kill the saudis, they step up their effort. when they go into stack stan and kill more, the government was an enabler of some people they

helped to step up the retaliation. we see the same in yemen. i think we're moving in the right direction. it's important to keep up, not saying military or law enforcement. this isn't a light he beer commercial. it's both. >> we're going to have all of them back. president obama makes a he pledge to americans. we'll hear it in 60 seconds. zooishgs

not only to undermine our security but also the open society and the values that we cherish as americans. this didn't, like several that have preceded it, none straights that an alert and courageous citizenry are far more

resilient. as a nation we will do everything in our power to protect our country. as americans we will never give in to fear or division, we will be guide i by our hopes, unit dwri and deeply held values. that's who we are as americans. that's what our brave he men and women in uniform are standing up for as they spend the holidays in harm's way. we will continue to do everything that we can to keep america safe he in the new year and beyond. >> larry: the family of the suspect issued a statement from nigeria that says in part. his father having become concerned about his disappearance and stoppage of communication while schooling abroad reported the matter to nigerian security agencies about two months ago and to some foreign security agencies about a month and a half ago and then sought their assistance to find and return him home. we, the family speaking again, provided them with all the information required of us to enable them to do this.

it was while we were waiting for the outcome of their investigation that we arose to the shocking news. the family will continue to fully cooperate with local and international security agencies toward the investigation of this matter while we await results of the full investigation. the statement is signed the abdulmutallab family. the terror threat is a political issue. we'll talk about ron paul and sheila jackson-lee and our friend ben stein all next. would you like a pony ?

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>> larry: eric hill will host "ac 360" at the top of the hour. >> we have new details on

attempted terror attack at the top of the hour, including why so many warning signs were missed. could this suspect have been stopped from even boarding that flight? he was on a terror watch but not a no-fly list. how does that happen? we speak to passengers on board flight 253 who have a tale you haven't heard. they saw a mysterious well-dressed man helping the suspect board the flight in amsterdam. all that and plus a look at how airport security is already changing the new policies that have been put in place, and if you're flies, you want to know what they are. it's busy and starts at the top of the hour. we'll see you then. >> larry: that's eric hill on top of the scene. we meet representative sheila jackson-lee and she's a he member of the homeland security committee and she chairs the subcommittee on transportation security and infrastructure

protection. representative ron paul is a republican of texas, member of the international relations committee. he was a flight surgeon in the air force and ob/gyn in civilian life and ben stooin and columnist with "for tyne." >> were you satisfied with the president's statement today? >> absolutely, larry. i believe the president has always been on top of this issue of securing the homeland. it is not a partisan issue, democratic issue or republican issues. he stood today and indicated we're now moving forward to some items we've already done and improving our security and screening, looking to ensure that we are going after the terrorists whoment to come after us. finding al qaeda wherever it is, and yes, doing an inventory and investigation on what happened and why. but i believe that there are several issues we have to address, and one of them is the

serious stovepiping the intelligence. communicating nfg that could have prevented this individual from boarding this plane. >> congressman palm, is politics outside the door here? >> well, i don't know. that depends on your definition of politics. if you disagree, i guess it's political. if you agree, then it isn't. no, the answer to your first question, you know, this statement wasn't all that satisfactory to me. sort of putting the pressure on the people. if we're just more vigilant. it seems to me the people had the responsibility and that embassy should have been more vigilant. we're spending $75 billion for intelligence gathering, and look what we have. we had fbi agents telling us about the pooimt pilots not landing on an airport on 9-11. i would say we came up wait short, and there was a fundamental flaw in the system.

the government is incapable of doing it. all the businesses and factories and hotels and everything, they're protected by the owners and by private security. but if you own an airplane, you have to defend on the bureaucracy. and $75 billion worth is all of a sudden we're safe as long as we're alert and tell everybody what's going on. >> larry: governments are responsible to do that, then, aren't they. >> governments are totally response. i was stunned at what president obama said today. it was as if someone said after pearl harbor we have to be vigilant because of the jap neen and jerpages. we're paying a fortune in tax and debt to do it. they're bureau accurates and doing 9:00 to 5:00 job and not getting i job done. this is a war. we said it over and over fwen. it's not a war against islam, but a war against terrorists. we know a lot about them. it's not going shared.

i'm not a stockholder of ibm. if you give it to them, in a month they could come up with a system with little dots going off if somebody like this nigerian guy is getting on an art. let's get to work on it like we mean it. >> all right. congresswoman lee, you want to respond to that? >> i do frankly. we're goegt work, but there are problems and frankly this needs to be aaddressed by congress and the administration. the stovepiping i was suggesting a very obvious one for this individual who had family members who knifed our elm bass gli nigeria. that information was not transported into homeland security. >> it's obvious that homeland security should be the focus point in terms of acting on any threat to the homeland. that means that the information that we received, that was a viable behavioral assessment that you could have made on this individual. he went to yemen. he has become ral ka callized

and his family has calls. there was a base of acting. by the way, my friends on the side of the vial voted against funding and also explosive funning. what the president can do, is to make a reverse point to the individual that is being held up as the tsa administration by a republican senator. leadership is important in this aspect, so i believe the government is responsible. i take responsibility. we have a way to to solve the problem. >> larry: i have to get a break in. i have to get a break in. ben, hold it. we'll have ben and ron respond right after this. getting from stephens green in dublin...

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>> larry: ron paul, you want to respond first to the congresswoman? >> yes, i do. one thing that is missing here is never asking the question what is the motive? abdulmutallab, he said why he did it. he said because we bombed yemen two weeks ago. osama bin laden says he has a plan for america. he wants to bog us down in the middle east in a no-win war and bankrupt the country and demoralize us. it seems like we have fallen sbau his trap. why is it off base? today when a gentleman indicated that he did it because of the bombing, you know what the administration said? they dismissed it. it can't possibly be so. if you dismiss motivations for why they hate us, we can never resolve it.

you have to ask the question, why do they hate, and they usually come up with a reason. we're foolish not to take that into kurgs. wi will. >> larry: ben. >> i never heard anything like that my whole life. what he's saying is we're doing something wrong by defending ourselves. we have to defend them. they're our friends. we can't let al qaeda run wild. that's not sufficient. >> why? >> why should we stop it? they're terrorists and murderers. >> why are they terrorists? larry. why are they terrorist science. >> because they're psychos. >> they're terrorists because we're occupiers. >> no we're not occupiers. that's the same anti-semantic argument we've heard over and over. >> that is a vicious attack. you're out of line. >> that is not a vicious attack. >> larry, i'd like to respond to some of these points that we

made. >> let's go back to sheila. >> we don't need to get into that. we don't need to get into that. >> that's terrible. you should apologize. >> this guy was walking on -- >> you sda credit yourself. look at this, folks. two republicans going at it. this is fascinating with a democratic liberal in the middle looking -- >> i can he referee between the two of them. >> let me just say that -- >> this guy walked on the airplane -- >> let me referee, please. >> larry: sheila, say something. yeah. >> let me referee play please. that is interesting to have two republicans? >> let me clarify and try to say that congressman paul has a point on our positions that we fook in iraq, which obviously created a very terrible atmosphere and we all ask the question what were the results.

of course, afghanistan is still a he question. we must be reminded that the terrorist acted under president bush's clock. this coop be an issue of inactivity per sway he and lack of commitment to the homeland, but we have to do better, and i believe we need to have behavioral assessment. there was no reason for him to have a vice sa in place until 2010 for them to travel. there was no reason for him not to be detected because of his behavior. behavioral assessment. we need to make the home security of the nation focused. secretary of homeland security should be the point person, and that person should taeb a road map that then allows us to fund and put resources according. finally the president should put in place -- >> larry: we're out of time. >> put in place the tsa administrator by way of a research pointses taxing and