tonight. thanks for your comments. twitter, facebook, my space or ireport.com. we have a few more minutes here. it's cold in new york, i'm stretching because i don't want to go outside. up next, christian christiane amanpour hostsed war within. it's monday morning, 12 degrees, crisp -- >> reporter: the morning commute to the city, london's financial district. every day, 300,000 people commute to work here, amid fears that britain is now al qaeda's number one target. >> today the prosecution outline ed how an attempt was made on a

train. >> reporter: for the last 10 years, london has been my refuge from the conflicts raging overseas. now those conflicts have erupted right here. nothing has been the same since suicide bombers struck london's buses and tubes. >> the terrorist threat on britain will last a generation. >> reporter: british television says it knows of 30 plots. >> inflammatory headlines spread islam-aphobia. >> women who wear the veil are not aliens. >> britains and muslims wonder how they first in. >> if we're not careful, he will have bloodshed on our streets. >> reporter: join us for britain's war within.

it's been dubbed london-astan. the hidden world of london's home grown islamic extremists. they are a tiny minority, but they have no trouble getting their voices heard. >> one day you will concur rome. one day. one day you will concur the white house. >> reporter: anjim chowdry is the face of islamic extremism in britain. his group disbanded before the british government could outlaw it under its new anti-terrorism rules. but that hasn't shut chowdry up. >> deserves capital punishment. >> reporter: that was chowdry's

inflammatory rhetoric just days after pope benedict's controversial speech about islam. >> pope benedict you will pay. >> reporter: outside westminister cathedral, british catholics looked on in disbelief. >> they can stand outside our church and abuse us, and abuse our religion and people we hold dear with absolute impunity. >> do you condemn what the pope said? do you condemn the pope? >> what he said -- >> yes or no, do you condemn the pope? >> if any of us was to go up to the mosque and say anything in regards to alla or mohammed or what have you, we would have been taken away from the police for inviting racial hatred. >> hypocrisy. >> reporter: even away from the bully pull bit, chowdry,

continues to advocate extremist views, like calling for sharia, islamic law for britten. >> all of the world belongs to alla. this is a funltd amtal belief of the muslims. if i'm going to go to the jungle tomorrow, i'm not going to live like the animals. >> you're saying it's my way or the highway, how does that kind of logic fit into a democratic state like the one we live in now, like the one you live in? you live here by choice. do you not believe in democracy? >> no, we don't at all. we believe people must live according to the sheriot. >> they would have their hands cut off for robbery, stoned for adultery. can you see that happening? >> one day. it's a matter of time, whether it comes from our peaceful discussion and debate, whether it comes because an army is sent

one day, who knows. >> reporter: an islamic army laying down the law in britain? what do people think? would you like to see cheria law in britain? >> no. i'm muslim myself, but for someone to tell me, that's the law of the whole country, the whole land, i think it's wrong. this is a free land. everyone's entitled to what they want to do, you know what i mean? it's not the taliban here. you know what i mean? >> reporter: you wouldn't know it, at this traditional muslim wedding, the chowdry has come to officiate. >> in the west they want to say equality between all people, between men and women. however, we are created as different. he has given man authority over the woman. he has given him -- because he

provides food, clothing and shelter. >> reporter: we never saw the bride or the female wedding guests, they were segregated in different halls. we were invited to witness the nikka, the do you dowery agreem between the groom and his father-in-law. >> please accept this -- [ chanting ] >> reporter: even at this wedding, chowdry preaches holy war. >> please press them with pius children -- >> reporter: but how about those who carried out the london subway attacks. on july 7th, 2005. chowdry gives an ominous answer. >> i'm not planning to blow myself up on the underground or

carry on in britain, however, those people who may be, will be doing what mohammed said would come, probably because of the same reasons which they included in their will. i really think you need to look at them. >> reporter: this is the videotaped will of one of the subway suicide bombers. >> until we feel security you will be our targets. until you stop the torture of my people, we will not stop this fight. we are at war, and i am a soldier. now you too will test the reality of this situation. >> reporter: the reasons they included in their will, are those reasons justified in your view? or in your view of islam? >> i think we have everything we need in those rule. >> reporter: where in the koran does it justify the killing of inskens. >> i'd like to get on to another question, because i've answered

that question already. mohammed quotes the koran -- he has purchased from the believers, the life, they will kill others and be killed. >> muslims all over the world i strongly advice you to sacrifice this land for the hereafter. >> reporter: there are imam's today who say the suicide bombers have really done a lot of damage to the reputation of islam. they're saying that the kinds of things that you are saying is in fact damaging the religion so much. >> yeah, this is -- you're obviously making a statement there, there's no real question there. people don't refer to you for islam. they refer to chic osama bin ladin, i happen to be in a political war. my brothers in al qaeda are involved in the military campaign. >> reporter: you call them your brothers, do you mean that? >> of course. >> reporter: al qaeda? >> every muslim in the world is my brother.

>> these people, have a good look at them. they actually think if you kill women, you kill children you will go to heaven. i would like to say it's not an ideology, it's a mental illness. >> reporter: and stopping it from spreading may be the most important battle for britain today. building my friendships, my family, while i was building my life, my high cholesterol was contributing to plaque buildup in my arteries. that's why my doctor prescribed crestor. she said plaque buildup in arteries is a real reason to lower cholesterol. and that along with diet, crestor does more than lower bad cholesterol, it raises good. crestor is also proven to slow the buildup of plaque in arteries. crestor isn't for everyone, like people with liver disease, or women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant. simple blood tests will check for liver problems.

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hanif qadir is a youth worker in walthamstowe. overnight, he discovered that he was on the front line of britain's battle against terror, when police arrested 14 young men in his neighborhood. >> there's a minority, i mean in the schools, that actually believe, i mean this is muslims, and nonmuslims, and this is very shocking, that blowing people up is quite cool. >> reporter: that blowing people up is cool? >> is quite cool, yeah. >> reporter: last august, british police descended on walthamstowe, saying they had foiled a conspiracy to blow up a dozen u.s.-bound airliners with

liquid explosives. this set off the biggest security alert since 9/11. >> i got an e-mail about this, so i put the question to some of these guys, and the answers that i got back is, "when a bomb goes off in baghdad or in afghanistan and innocent women and children are killed over there, who cares for them? so if a bomb goes off in america or in london, what's wrong with that?" >> reporter: indeed, a poll in "the times" of london showed a shocking 13% of british muslims believe the london subway bombers were martyrs, and many british muslims see the iraq war as a war against islam, against them. we're talking about england here. we're talking about young muslims, who have grown up in this country. i think people would be really stunned to hear you say that it is essentially foreign policy, which is causing youngsters to blow themselves up on the subway system, and youngsters to think

that that's cool. >> foreign policy has a lot to do with it, and -- but it's the minority radical groups that use that to get to our young people. >> reporter: and some of those young muslims are easy prey, because they believe the british government crackdown is scapegoating them, as when minister john reid came to talk to walthamstowe parents. >> there are fanatics who are looking to groom and brainwash children, including your children, so all i say is look for those telltale signs now. >> reporter: one of those fanatics was in the room, waiting to pounce. >> when they come to your own houses, when your house is raided or your sister is raided you'll be just as irate as i am. >> reporter: omar broobs, a self-styled religious leader of an extremist group that is now banned.

>> he went in there and he's shouting and he's hollering at everybody and everybody thinks yes, this guy is running against the system. >> where is the freedom of speech now? >> they consider them heroes for the younger guys. yes, get in there, you know, he's telling them how it is. >> you should not come to muslim area. we don't want to see john reid, we don't want to see tony blair or any of your cronies. >> it's very easy for them guys to then come back into the community and have a lot of supporters. >> reporter: these people, many of them self-appointed clerics, are dominating the national debate and certainly the debate within islam right now. they are the loudest voices. how is that possible? >> because our scholars have educated themselves to preach islam are not coming out of their holes, their mosques, and their holes to engage with these people. they're frightened of that. >> reporter: so hanif is desperately trying to fix that, trying to get the mosque elders, many still stuck in the tribal

traditions of pakistan, to communicate with the younger generation. >> i'd like to ask these young people, because i'm part of the committee of next door mosque, which man come into the mosque and the mosque refused them? >> how many times you tried to engage with us, the youth? i want to know. >> sometimes young people like you go in the mosque and older people are praying and you disturb the prayer. we know what you young people do. some of you. no, listen to me. >> we are not attacking the mosque. we are attacking the elders. >> reporter: what do you think is your most serious problem right now, as young muslim men in england? >> we feel like the youth have been called the enemy within, because they're blaming us on being terrorists, they're blaming us for being suicide bombers, when they have no right to actually accuse us. >> if i was walking down the street, right, with my mosque hat on and a beard, they're straightaway terrorists. they all think extremism. >> reporter: extremism can thrive amongst kids who see no

way out of their ethnic ghettos. >> they're into all kinds of vices. they're into street crime, gun crime, drugs, car theft, credit card fraud. but then you've now got another threat. >> reporter: what's the new threat? >> the new threat is radicalism. it's a cause. every young one wants a cause. >> reporter: so hanif's cause is to break the ice. this time, in a pool tournament, between the police and the young men who often find themselves on the wrong side of the law. >> on the street, they just hate the uniform at all. so just to break them barriers i think is a brilliant idea. >> it is unusual to see it, but it's quite good at the same time because like the kids and the police are mixing together. i personally think it's a great thing. >> all it takes is one pool tournament and it wasn't just the game. it was them being here. they were in the same room, having a laugh and a joke, with the same guys that they've arrested many times, and may

arrest again but you know what? they've got one thing in common, they're playing pool, and they've got a chance to beat them. >> take your time. >> yeah! >> on behalf of the metropolitan police, this is for the active change foundation pool tournament, october, 2006, well done. [ cheers and applause ] >> reporter: it's a good start for walthamstowe, but it is only a start. >> you can be muslim and you can be british, you know? like you can be christian and you can be british. you can be jewish and you can be british. ♪ >> if the british-born muslims really want to do something to stop people damaging islam, then start reading up on your book, explain it to your children. come out of your denial phase. the only conspirers against islam at the moment, right, and the biggest threat to islam at the moment is our enemies within.

♪ i'm gonna build a dirty bomb use this revelation education ♪ >> reporter: bombs and the backlash, seeping even into song. how far will it go? ♪ i reject your truth because it's all a lie ♪ ( laughs, click ) when you hear a click, ( clicking ) you know it's closed and secure. that's why hefty food bags click closed. hefty! hefty! hefty! so you know you've helped lock in freshness and lock out air... to help prevent freezer burn. be sure it's secure with hefty food bags. just one click and you know it's closed. hefty! hefty! hefty! ( click, click, click )

i'm don lemon in new york, here's what's happening right now. the failed christmas day terror attack was a stark reminder of al qaeda's ultimate goals, the word from a top government official who says al qaeda is testing u.s. defenses as they plan an attack on u.s. soil. u.s. officials know with absolute certainty that would-be terrorists are working to refine their methods. no u.s. soldiers died in combat in iraq last month. this is is the first time this has happened since the start of

the iraq war. the tops commander in iraq is calling this a significant milestone, since march 2003. 3,477 troops have been killed by fighting. about 900 others have died in noncombat incidents. after three days of rain and mudslides, rescuers are pulling bodies from beneath huge mountains of mud and dirt in brazil. the coastal city has been especially hit hard. rescue teams are on duty around the clock, hope is fading for survivor there's. at least 60 people had been killed in the southeastern part of that country. those are your headlines this hour, i'm don lemon, keeping you informed, cnn, the most trusted name in news. ♪ i reject your truth because it's all a lie ♪ ♪ reject your proof like american pie ♪ >> reporter: rejection has been aki nawaz's thing since the days of punk rock.

♪ >> reporter: his latest blast against the system and his angry new album, sum up what many young british muslims reject today -- the war in iraq, the war against terror and all its infamous abuses. ♪ reject war and terror it's the war on islam ♪ >> reporter: why is the cover of your album so provocative? >> it's provocative because i find it represents american foreign policy, which is far more provocative than any piece of artwork has ever been. >> reporter: and you can't get much more provocative than this track, aki's song and video about making a dirty bomb. ♪ i'll tell you what number the hurt is gone ♪ ♪ gonna build a dirty bomb use this religion and education ♪ ♪ my ph.d. will free me weapons grade uranium ♪ ♪ a suitcase and a mobile phone trigger, blow them all to hell for a million dollar figure ♪ >> i decided to write this track called cookbook diy, how a common man can make a bomb, how

an educated man makes a bomb, and how a scientist from the white house makes a bomb. and i always try to say that morally, they're all as repulsive as each other. ♪ i insist i'm a legitimate scientist ♪ ♪ paid by the government with your finances ♪ ♪ there's less radiation so you get a cleaner bomb ♪ ♪ sure money people it cost a billion ♪ >> reporter: when you put out these songs about dirty bombs or benefits of jihad, does it ever cross your mind that young people who might be inclined to take that and run with it in a violent way might do so? >> that would be like me saying, you know, i'm angry because i watched "rambo." hollywood is making films, you are making documentaries about terrorism, about the current situation, blah, blah, blah. you're allowed to do all of this stuff but me as a muslim, being

asked that question which again exposes the kind of pathetic intelligence that's rife out there, where one rule is for one and another rule is for another. >> reporter: but it is, in fact, muslims who have been blowing up planes and hijacking planes -- >> no, no, americans -- >> reporter: going on to subways in your own capital. >> as far as terrorism is concerned, we can't even touch the immensity of state terrorism that has gone on by the west. >> reporter: you mean that? >> i absolutely mean it, right across the globe, even in europe people are sick, sick to death of the american foreign policy. >> reporter: aki nawaz may be on the cultural cutting edge but his take on america is becoming mainstream in britain's muslim community. >> good afternoon. >> reporter: this so worries the united states that it sent its ambassador, robert tuttle and his wife maria, to reach out to

muslims here in britain. today they're visiting birmingham's central mosque. >> if i was to strap a bomb to myself and go into the city center and blow innocent people up, i'm not practicing what i'm preaching. my religion is islam, the religion of peace. likewise, what america preaches and its actions don't go together. >> at the end of the day, until you can have free elections and open dialogue like we're having here now, then that's when you truly have peace. >> you can't bring democracy to iraq if you bomb cities and kill children and men and women. they're not going to love you. if you kill my child, i'm not going to love you. i'm going to hate you and this is what he has done. so mr. ambassador, you know, i'm -- i know you're a nice man. how can you defend mr. george bush's policy? and i hope as soon as he goes, mr. bush, somebody sensible comes in power in america, we'll be very grateful. >> let me say first -- let the record show he said i was a nice man, let's not forget that, all right?

i've known president bush for almost 25 years. he's not anti-muslim. he's not anti-islam. >> reporter: but the ambassador can see he's facing a tough audience. still, he cannot afford to ignore them. >> this is the largest mosque in the united kingdom, the largest mosque in western europe. i think the reaching out and the discussion and the dialogue is what really counts here. >> reporter: and that gets more critical by the day, especially in birmingham. britain's second largest city with its largest muslim minority. mohamed ali is a birmingham artist, also known as aerosol arabic. >> transforming a wall in outdoor surface into a piece of art in itself, you know, this is so exciting. >> reporter: he rose from painting graffiti on city walls to displaying his art in museums and stately halls. >> there is actually a chap, a guy who is making the round of call for prayer. ♪

>> god has given me a gift which is the ability to paint, so i'm using my skills which i might have to be able to make a change in society to see something negative and you actively go to change that. >> reporter: mohammed ali's reaction to the negative atmosphere is to practice what he paints. >> people are increasingly becoming disillusioned or being led astray. this is not the way. i mean, i've done workshops with kids, and i say to them, you know, if you've got some issues, put it onto a canvas, you know, paint, express yourself. >> reporter: and that is quite literally the aim of mohammed ali's new project, a giant street mural that he'll be painting on the side of an islamic nursery, along with students from a multi-faith high school. >> the whole mural supported by the reverend john, who is a chaplain of a local college, and we have the headmaster here of a

faith-based islamic ministry, it's a faith-base d commitment. everybody engaging together and working on this mural together, to me it's a powerful thing. >> we're about to redo everything. this has come at a perfect time. >> okay, guys, are you ready? >> reporter: in a flash, mohammed turns into aerosol arabic, and this ugly wall into a piece of street art. >> i'm going to give you the same cans, so basically we're going to have red, orange, yellow, blending up to the top. you understand? first of all shake your can as well. >> reporter: none of these students has ever even wielded a spray can before. >> it's nice. it's nice to have a chance. it's good. i like it. it's my first time. >> what you need to do, see as tony showed you, you blend it up like that. >> i just think it's great that people from across the communities are coming here, united to produce a piece of artwork like this. it's the issue of the day, unless the communities work together like this, we haven't got a rosy future to look

forward to. we need to do more of this. >> we will have various icons from different faiths in the form of architecture, so we can have, you know st. martins church and birmingham central mosque to kind of represent the unity of the people. >> i think it's good. it promotes brotherhood, nonmuslims alike, you know, they think negative of us so it's nice to have that image to show that you know, to bring us closer, if you know what i mean. so it's a good thing. >> the views of islam and britain have taken quite a knocking, so to see an expression of islamic faith in a very interesting art medium is all to the good. >> that's the great thing about graffiti and this outdoor art taken on the streets, because it's art for the people, the people around you here. these aren't the people going to the nice big galleries, this is art going out to the people in an accessible form that young and old can say you know what? i like this. it's transforming something ugly because believe me that wall was ugly. >> reporter: while mohammed ali

tries to transform the ugliness that's dividing britain, from his recording studio, aki nawaz is trying to make sure that every muslim child here grows up to question that ugliness. >> all i want my kids to know is that they have absolutely every single right that the british people have. they're allowed to dissent, they're allowed to be provocative. they can be a part of society or put the middle finger up at society. >> go home, go home. >> reporter: muslim women take on hot button issues. >> we got the door slammed in our face. >> reporter: in britain's war within. looking at bones

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>> atheists must be a flee 120 to remind them they used to burn atheists. >> reporter: whether it's on the radio or before an audience as a london comedy club. >> i'm a moderate muslim and kind of bacon sandwich kind of way. but i have people hostile toward me. my gig is very -- i guess white areas. they are probably fearful and very hateful of muslims because of everything that's happened. in a couple days after the bombs went off in london this woman phones me up and goes, are you sure, i want to let you know, nobody blames you. and then she follows up with lots of, you must not blame

yourself. i didn't until that point. thanks. >> reporter: so you felt there in that one phone call that society's looking at all of your community in that way? >> up until that point i think i had distanced myself from it. i thought i guess i am a muslim and people must think you're a muslim, part of your community did this, you are guilty by association. there is a lot of really massive stereotyping going on in society at the moment. >> reporter: nobody has been more stereotyped than women. the complete face veil. that's a lightning rod after a teacher was suspended for wearing it on the job. this is another anonymous figure in the crowd but her veil says more about her than her face ever did. do you feel part of the british culture, part of british society in life? >> absolutely. i find it quite a bizarre question to be asked.

i've been you know, been born in this country and you know, brought up here, everything about me is pretty much english. >> reporter: what's the most common question you get asked? >> why. we don't understand. i see it as an obligation of my faith. >> reporter: actually, it's more about culture than the koran, just like the fact that more than half of britain's mosques don't allow women to pray inside. >> go home. >> we come to pray. >> reporter: that's why these muslim women are trying to get their foot in the door. >> the door slammed in our face. >> i'm so disappointed. he shut the door on me. >> we don't have a space for the woman. >> reporter: and this debate continued on the air. >> it's a small flavor of the reception of a group of muslim women when they tried to pray with the men. is now the right time to be

fighting the battle of the sexes within islam? how was this experience for you? why did you want to pursue it? >> because it's an intrinsic right in our religion we have this right to pray in mosques. because of cultural reasons, the older generation in some mosques in this country are excluding us. >> we're not asking to have the right. all we want so do is come and pray. >> i think this is absolutely the right time for women within islam to be having these kind of debates. if more and more women were allowed to have a greater role in the muslim community, it would help some of the extremism which is ruining things for the whole community. >> reporter: how delicate is the situation in england? >> i think the situation is incredibly delicate. the majority of muslims in this country are very passionate about their religion but also moderate people.

they are passionate about their lives that they created for themselves in britain. >> reporter: like iasha who made a leap when they moved from india to scotland. >> when my dad first moved to glasgow one of his patients said to him, where are you? and he said, i'm a muslim. like i'm a muslim. and they said, a rangers muslim or -- >> i thought that was brilliant. i thought it was fantastic. >> reporter: what is he? >> whatever you are. >> want to remove this idea. >> reporter: will growing islamaphobia push british muslims further apart?

this could be london's next big landmark, and big controversy -- a mosque, unlike any seen before. >> we are really basing it on islamic landscapes, desert landscapes, so we've got this kind of dune-like very soft structures which then form these terraces at the back. >> reporter: and totally modern. >> yeah, completely modern. >> reporter: ali mangera is one of britain's hot young architects. what are you trying to say?

are you trying to say anything about islam? >> we're trying to say the -- that islam is progressive. so hopefully, christian groups or jewish groups could sit around the olive grove and discuss peace. that's really our aim. >> reporter: wouldn't that be nice? >> wouldn't that be nice? >> reporter: you'd think that everyone would be ecstatic at ali's vision. just like they were when london won its bid to host the 2012 olympics. but the mega mosque will hold 40,000 muslim worshippers, and it will be the most visible monument from the games. >> the site itself, an old chemical site. >> reporter: city councilor alan craig is leading a campaign against it. >> there you have it. this is the mega mosque, that huge building you've seen on the plans and architects would be right there. >> reporter: it looks like wasteland. what's wrong with putting a mosque or anything there? >> but this is different. this is huge. this is massive. this is going to be at least the biggest mosque in europe, some say the biggest mosque outside the middle east.

>> reporter: and right now, it's become the biggest symbol of the tug-of-war that's happening here over islam. today councilor craig and his supporters are canvassing the neighborhood. >> hello, sorry to bother you. my name's alan craig. i'm a local councilor, calling around about a large mosque. they're planning to build just across the way here. you've heard about this mosque this large one. >> yeah. >> what is your reaction, welcome or not welcome? >> not welcome. >> you wouldn't like it here. >> reporter: a blunt view shared by other east enders. why do you not want to see this mega mosque here? >> to be honest we're overcrowded here now, without getting a load more people coming. i'm living here, you know, it's just overcrowded. >> reporter: the mega mosque will pack in even more people than the big league soccer stadium does every weekend. but for muslims in the

neighborhood, craig's campaign just smacks of more islamaphobia. should there be a mosque, another big mega mosque? >> this is the first time i'm hearing it myself and with all respect, i think that's a brilliant idea. if it was any other religion, i'm sure they would have gotten planning permission to build straightaway. whenever it's muslims, there seems to be barriers. i don't understand why. >> reporter: some say craig's campaign against the mosque is really a competition between faiths. >> i'm a committed christian. >> reporter: a lot of this sounds like, sorry to say, white middle class anger and fear of muslims right now. >> i would say that's nonsense. i'm used to people insulting me and calling me anti-muslim and calling me islamaphobic. muslims have the right to build mosques, just as others have the right to build churches and hindu temples and so on. it is valid to ask these questions. >> reporter: the biggest question is about the group that's commissioned the mega mosque. it is among the most secretive and fundamentalist of britain's major muslim organizations. it never allows cameras inside its mosques, but now the group

is reaching out. abdul halik, a member and businessman, is now spokesman for the mega mosque project. what is the tabliki philosophy? it is secret. we don't know, we're not allowed in. >> it's not secret at all. the doors are quite open. it's just they do not engage with the media and that's why it's not known to the people. their philosophy is you should have islam within you in such a way it should reflect from you. >> reporter: but that peaceful image does not sway tablili critics. >> there are a number of people who have become terrorists, who have become suicide bombers, who are closely associated with tabliki yjimet, including the leader of the london 7-7 bombers, mohammed sidique khan. so an association between what they are teaching and the terrorists and the suicide bombers. >> reporter: the fbi, french intelligence, is looking at tabliki yjimet because of its potential links to terrorism, fundamentalism, its potential influence, and people are

scared. >> people need not be scared. they have investigated for a long time. what have they found? there are millions of people following this organization. do you not think after all that time for them to produce only two terrorists? if it was an organization, don't you think there would be hundreds and thousands of them? tabliki does not encourage terrorism in any way whatsoever. >> reporter: it's a view shared by shahid malik, one of four muslim mps in britain's parliament. obviously, there's a lot of spotlight on tabliki, mostly because they're secretive. you know them. they're your constituency. what are they like? >> they don't preach evil ideology. that doesn't mean evil people might not go to one of their mosques. >> reporter: muslims that we have talked to feel under assault, under fire. do you feel that? >> i think the muslim community does feel under siege, and in this country after the 7th of july, 2005, where we had the heinous suicide bombings in

london, and there's a degree of polarization that's taken place in our communities. >> reporter: and many worry that will push muslims in britain to retreat into their communities even further. >> we have a great debate going whole nature of multiculturalism. if there is the possibility that this mosque would impact them in that way so it becomes a separate society, a parallel society, i think that's very worrying. >> reporter: but for an architect like ali mangera, it's a challenge to build on. >> we're trying to resolve these issues in an architectural sense. our views are really to get people together, because ultimately, whether you're muslim, jewish or christian, we're all human beings. we share this small planet and we have to think about getting on with each other. >> reporter: so who will win the battle of ideas when mainstream and extremist muslims face off in debate? >> we like to die and you all like to live. you like to go to your pubs, you like to see your wife and children. good for you. so don't fight muslims, and you

will be safe.

>> reporter: the battle for islam is, in the end, a battle of ideas, and tonight, on the campus of the prestigious trinity college in dublin, ireland, there will be a debate between mainstream muslims and the self-appointed apostles of

islamic holy war. >> ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this belief that islamic violence can never be justified. >> reporter: the small group of islamic extremists who turn up at every rally and protest in britain have come here to ireland to debate moderate clerics who say their religion has been hijacked by the likes of anjem choudary and omar brooks. >> we drink the blood of the enemy. we can face them anywhere. that is islam and that's jihad. and our message is that i laugh when i kill and he said to his own people -- [ speaking in foreign language ] he said i come to slaughter all of you! so anybody who wants to stand in the face of the muslims, he will face the banner of jihad. >> reporter: shortly after this program first aired, british police arrested omar brooks, and charged him with inciting terrorism. there aren't many people following the banner of omar

brooks, yet he and his colleagues here have loudly dominated the public debate about islam. but tonight, the moderates fight back. >> these people, ladies and gentlemen, have a good look at them. they actually think if you kill children, if you kill a woman, you would go to heaven. you have no chance in hell. you are a lawyer, mr. choudary, can i speak? you are a lawyer and you would know that you can't go to heaven except if you claim insanity. this is not an ideology. it's a mental illness. [ applause ] >> it's a common thing to say that the enemy, you know, they eat the babies, they kill the children, they're fundamentalists. and that happened during the second world war. there's a lot of propaganda. what are muslims supposed to do when they are being killed in the streets in afghanistan, in baghdad and other places, in palestinian? do they not have the same right to defend themselves? in war people die. people don't make love. they kill each other. >> we want to remove this idea that islam is a religion of peace. it is not a religion of peace. there is evidence in the book of islam called the koran, sanctioning violence. >> reporter: but does the koran

really sanction this kind of violence? no, says sheikh shahid, who has spent a lifetime fighting apartheid and islamic extremism in south africa. >> these extremists claim to know islam, but they are an a la carte version of islam, that seems to portray god and his messages as cruel and uncompassionate monsters. i demand them to provide proof from the text of the koran, the holy book islam. >> chapter 9, verse 29, what does allah say, find those of you who do not believe in omar and in hereafter. >> reporter: to decipher the koran we visited the same east end neighborhood where our journey began, to talk to imam usama hasan. they say, but look, these verses in the koran that are quoted justify this kind of violence. what's going on? >> those verses are nearly always taken totally out of context and nearly always ignoring the spiritual aspect, the aspect which talks about

forgiveness and repentance. >> reporter: few people here have studied the koran as closely as imam hasan. he had memorized it by the time he was 11, and at 19, he briefly fought in the jihad against communists in afghanistan. but he says there is no justification for violent jihad here in britain. >> if you have the wrong intention, you could justify your criminal actions from any text, whether it's a koran or bible or shakespeare. there are passages in the new testament where jesus christ is alleged to say think not that i have come to bring peace. i have come to bring the sword. that's a famous quote in the new testament. but clearly, most christians don't misunderstand that to justify terrorism and wanton violence. >> reporter: what is your reaction when you hear this book, the koran, and those words taken in vain, to justify what you've called crazy islamic

terrorism? >> it makes me furious. the people who do that kind of action and who support it are a very tiny minority, but it only takes a handful, of course, to create devastation. >> reporter: and that is why imam hasan's message to his flock at friday prayers is so urgent. >> many people are terrified of muslims and terrified of a brother walking down the road in the eastern dress, and it is up to us to dispel the fear, to smile at people, and te thll th that islam is not about the face cloth or the veil, or violence, but it is about peace. >> no one knows who will win britain's battle for islam. will it be those battling j