bravo. does it hurt when you walk? >> translator: yeah, it hurts. >> have you always been brave or did this just make you brave? >> translator: i've always been brave. >> what do you want to be when you grow up? >> translator: i want to continue school and be able to help. >> we made sure to get bea medical attention, to address her wounds. she lost ten members of her family yet she's such a smart, bright girl. she wakes up every day and keeps going. that's it for "360." thanks for watching. we're in port-au-prince tomorrow and all week. larry king starts right now. >> larry: tonight, millions have been given the help quake ravaged haiti. what about haitians who lost

limbs to crush injuries and am pew takings? how do they survive in the land of limited medical care and manual labor? heather mills with a heartfelt appeal based on firsthand experience along with cnn's sanjay gupta, police, haitian adoptees find loving parents, new homes in america. is there status finally settled? >> what about the thousands of orphans left behind. and the federal government has poured tens of billions of your dollars into economic stimulus. big waste? that's next on "larry king live." good evening. residents of port-au-prince waited in lines for hours today to get their first relief supplies. bags of rice and beans. food and supplies are slowly making their way to the people

who need them so desperately. to find out where things stand, anderson cooper stands by as he has ever since this started two weeks ago tonight. he is, of course, in port-au-prince. i saw a film from the bbc anderson in which they brought in supplies and took them back. what's going on? >> well, we're seeing a lot of food distribution at this point. they're handing out food in a lot of different areas. i say i saw one food handout by action against hunger, water distribution is a key issue right now. sometimes if there are unruly crowds or things get beyond the control, they will might have away. for the most part things are very orderly. we haven't seen, you know, any kind of large scale problems. i spent today looking into the issue of all the new orphans created in the wake of catastrophe. there's no telling how many there are at this point, but unicef is very concerned that these kids could be trafficked, taken for illegal adoptions, for shady adoptions, trafficked for

sexual exploitation and domestic work. they're trying to figure out how orphans there are and protect as many as they can. but at this point there's a lot of concern, a lot of doctors i've talked to are concerned about it as well, larry. >> larry: from your standpoint, you've been there almost from the get-go. is this progressing about correctly? >> well, you know, i don't think it's progressing fast enough for anybody, even the people involved in this thing would like to see things moving faster. there's been noticeable changes every single day, and certainly today was a lot different than five days ago or what we saw on friday. we're seeing a lot more structure, a lot for food handouts and a lot more of water distribution. a lot of people lining up to get water at pumps. most people in the city still don't have access to clean drinking water in their homes or even at their local pumps. it's handed out and carted in in these giant tubs that unicef and action against hunger uses. so nothing is normal here, larry. but things are certainly moving. >> larry: thank you, anderson.

we'll check with you later in the program. anderson cooper, anchor of "ac 360," nightly following this program on cnn. joining us in port-au-prince, dr. sanjay gupta cnn chief medical correspondent and a practicing neurosurgeon. what's the latest on the medical situation, sanjay? in the early days you painted a desperate scene. what's it like now? >> reporter: well, i think in many ways it's gotten better, but it's all relative, as you know, larry. a couple of things have improved. we have more personnel, surgeons actually on the ground being able to take care of patients. you're looking inside one of the tents here. a lot of postoperative patients, patients that had operations including amputations. they're in tents like this outside a hospital. this is a good location to try and take care of these patients. lots of doctors, still short of nurses and physical therapists which are going to be necessary.

so there's still work to be done. i have to tell you to your point it's a lot better than it was a few days ago, and it looks like it will be better a few days from now. >> larry: heather mills, an amputee herself, will be joining us in the next segment. we'll have her go back and forthwith you. the amputations necessity at a timed by the crush injuries are the significant injury of this disaster. do we have any sense how many am pew takings have taken place? >> reporter: well, it's hard to know. we've tried to figure out that number ourselves. there's so many various locations like this set up around the city and really around the country. a lot of these places are performing amputations because, you know, someone has a crush injury and taking the arm or taking the leg ends up being necessary. so they estimate it could be up to 200,000 amputations, larry. think about that number for a second. it's staggering. 200,000 amputations necessary

possible because of this earthquake and they think 95% of the people with crush injuries would need an amputation. that's the reality of haiti. that's how things are taken care of here. >> larry: we're going to try to help in the next segment when our guest joins us, but port-au-prince had one full-time prosthetic lab as i understand it, a limb manufacturer. what happened to it? >> reporter: well, you know, like a lot of other buildings here, the building was destroyed or greatly disabled as a result of the earthquake. the building pretty much is not standing anymore. there is equipment inside the building, but getting that equipment or in any way trying to render it usable may be too difficult a task. i think that's why you start to hear the call say, look, we need to have some help come in here. we know how this story plays out. people with amputations need prosthetics. if you do not have a leg and you

cannot walk around the city of port-au-prince or in haiti, that's a very tough way to go. a lot of these people cannot survive. we know what's necessary as a result of all these amputations, larry. >> larry: isn't infection a big problem? >> reporter: no question about it. it's a big problem in two ways. this is very important. what would otherwise seem like a harmless cut or gash on a hand or leg because of the squalled conditions in which people live and the lack of antibiotics, that simple cut could turn into a devastating infection that would possibly require an amputation. people that have had amputations, keeping that wound clean and the dressings clean is very important and very hard to do. a lot of the people here, larry, once they leave a tent lick this, remember, we're talking about a tent, not even a hospital. they may not get follow-up care or dressing changes or antibiotics.

again, an otherwise relatively harmless infection can be a very big deal. >> larry: stay right there, sanjay. thousands of people have lost one or more limbs in this earthquake. heather mills who lost part of her leg in an accident in 1993 will join us next to talk about the medical and mental support these amputees in haiti will need. first, as we go to break, we want to show you some exclusive new footage cnn has obtained of the moments after the earthquake struck two weeks ago tonight.

>> larry: joining us now from london, heather mills. heather is working with physicians for peace. she's urging people to donate their old prosthetics to the people of haiti. she is as you well know, herself an amputee, having lost part of her left leg in a 1993 road accident. staying with us in port-au-prince is dr. sanjay gupta, our chief medical correspondent. heather, you're working with physicians for peace. you want mobility supplies. can people actually donate their

old prosthetics and it will work elsewhere? >> well, we started this program, larry, in '94 after i lost my leg. i was working in the former yugoslavia. we had to find a really quick way of getting limbs to the amputees there. we fitted 27,000 people with the same system. in the indian earthquake when we set up with the tents, we worked with the lion club charity there. so i always like to not reinvent the wheel and find out exactly which agencies, which clinicians have been working on the ground in the countries, rather than go in and bam bord and reinvent what people are doing. so physicians for peace have been on the ground for several years. they had a great clinic for rehabilitation and prosthetic care, and now it's been destroyed. what i'm trying to do is appeal to people to go to all the hangar clinics and most amputees will know what that means, and

contact physicians for peace and take back any limbs they're not using. we can reuse the components. most importantly at the moment are crutches to give someone the freedom and ability to take the pressure off the caretakers around them, is to get around and get mobile before atrofy sets in. >> larry: how do you know where to send them? what did you do with the limb? where do you send it? >> you should contact physiciansforpeace.org and you can take it back to your local clinic you got it from in the first place and ask them to help locate the local hangar company who have offered to collect them all, store them for us. what i'd like to do is get as much crutches as possible first, because while there's infection we can't fit limbs. i've collected a number of

temporary sponge blowup leg. because the sooner you can create circulation in the early days of healing, the sooner it will start to work and minimize infection. >> larry: sanjay, is the health care infrastructure in haiti ready to handle an influx like this, reaction to this program tonight? can they handle hundreds of crutches and wheelchairs and prosthetic limbs coming in at once? >> reporter: well, you know, that's a good question. they're certainly going to need that. whether now exactly is the right time, i think as heather knows, they're in the acute phase of things. amputations are still being performed, larry. it takes some time after an amputation is performed. the wound has to heal and the swelling has to go down. eventually the prosthetic gets fit. that can be a few weeks from now still. i think there's several different organizations which have been performing these amputations.

there's been so many of them, larry. we're standing outside a swiss tent right now with the partners in health organization, mt. sinai, there's so many different organizations doing this. it will be a little bit of time before we're in that phase, but it's coming no doubt. >> larry: heather, i know you did this historically on our show once. i would appreciate it if you did it again. would you show us your limb so that people around the world can get an idea of how they'll be helping. >> this is actually the kind of limb that we need to find to donate, but like sanjay said, i'm fully aware they're not going to need the limbs for weeks, but it takes weeks to coordinate and takes weeks for people to donate and get them packed and shipped as you saw when disasters happened before they got food, got things. it's thinking three or four steps ahead. it will be very soon that they

will need crutches, most importantly. this is an artificial leg typical, and this is a socket on my leg which has a screw attachment. what we do is you have an attachment in here, and then the leg just goes on and pops in. it actually screws in. so that's the attachment we need to have to make it very simple for people to be able to get it about so that it doesn't get hot. but we need to collect as many as possible, because it takes us weeks to actually take this limb apart and find the components and put them into boxes. what we don't want is when they are able and ready to have a limb fitted, that we're still messing about and struggling to do this. this is why i work with companies that are already doing it down there, so you're not just going in, you know, blindfolded. you're working with people that have been there for several years as physicians for peace

have. >> larry: if you want to get more information, go to physiciansforpeace.org. we'll take a break. an american survivor will join us next. us next. to talk about her road recovery. says she's lucky to be alive, even though she lost part of her leg, crushed in the earthquake. back in 60 seconds. marie callender's home-style creations -- a little touch of home for lunch. [ male announcer ] becky loves marie callender's home-style creations. but where does she find them? not in the freezer section. that's why becky uses gps. not that kind. go to the pasta or soup aisle to find marie callender's home-style creations. keep up the good work, becky.

joining us now is an american who survived the earthquake but her leg was amputated below the knee after she was evacuated to the united states. she's at jackson memorial hospital in miami. how are you doing, christa? >> i'm doing great. >> larry: now you're obviously grateful. you have access to major medical care. how long before you'll get a prosthetic? >> it will still be a couple weeks for me. last friday the surgeons were

finally able to close up the wound on my leg. so now the skin needs to heal, and the swelling needs to go down and then i can fitted for a prosthetic. >> did you see what heather just showed us? >> no, i wasn't. >> larry: okay. well, it looked pretty simple. heather, what advice would you have for christa? >> she obviously looks quite positive. i can see in her face that she's gone through a very difficult time, but i'm sure she's got a lot of love and support of her family and friends around her. the most important thing is to take care of your health and get the best kind of prosthetic that you can in america. the most important thing is not cosmetic immediately because you're residual limb will shrink as time goes on, as i'm sure you've been told. i have a form of 6,000 amputees that talk to each other that probably live in an area near you. if you go to heathermills.org you can talk to many people and learn things.

if you've got a blister or bleeding later, you don't need to be off your limb. you can use blister plasters, lots of little tips that go forward. one of the quickest way i helped is to help other people. it's like a natural adrenaline feeling that you are connecting with other people, so if you get in touch with us when you're feeling ready, then you can go on and help a lot of the victims from haiti yourself if you feel that you want to do something like that. but you obviously and hopefully will get the best care. we'll communicate. >> larry: you'll be in touch. it's heathermills.org? heather, is that it? >> that's it. heathermills.org. >> larry: sanjay, how is haiti going to be able to handle all of these amputees? i know your specialty is brain surgery, but you know the body pretty well. it's going to be an enormous task, isn't it, assuming they get a lot of help coming in?

>> yeah. there's no question about it, larry. it's going to be an enormous task. heather should know that the types of patients that this is going to help. we met a 7-year-old boy not that long ago, marie claude is his name. he's 7 years old. this house literally fell on his leg. he required an amputation. he's back there with his mother. his four other siblings and father perished in the home. he needs a leg. if he doesn't have a leg, he can't get around. if he can't get around port-au-prince, it's hard to get around in wheelchairs in port-au-prince. you need to be able to walk. with this amputation he needs help with the prosthetic device. how is port-au-prince going to be able to deal with this? it's going to be very, very tough. the infrastructure is going to change completely. this is going to be a country that's known for amputations and

they didn't do a good job of taking care of people with disabilities before this. this will need a lot of focus with the help of heather and a lot of other people. >> we salute you again and call on you again. it's physiciansforpeace.org. >> one last thing before we go. >> larry: quickly. >> one last thick anyone who wants to volunteer, we do a two-week rotation which won't take you away from your patients. >> larry: thank you. we'll keep in touch on your process and check back, of course, with dr. gupta. thank you all very much. the wilkins family was in the process of adopting a haitian boy when the earthquake hit. we told you their story last week. we have a happy report for you tonight. little samuel is in the united states flown in from haiti with 80 other orphans. he's right here. he'll join us with his family, next.

♪ it has the agility to avoid the unexpected... ♪ ...the power to take on any mission, and the space to accommodate precious cargo, because every great action hero needs a vehicle. ♪ i have asthma.

and when my symptoms-the coughing, wheezing, tightness in my chest came back- i knew i had to see my doctor. he told me i had choices in controller medicines. we chose symbicort. symbicort starts to improve my lung function within 15 minutes. that's important to me because i know the two medicines in symbicort are beginning to treat my symptoms and helping me take control of my asthma. and that makes symbicort a good choice for me. symbicort will not replace a rescue inhaler for sudden symptoms. and should not be taken more than twice a day. symbicort contains formoterol. medicines like formoterol may increase the chance of asthma-related death.

so, it is not for people whose asthma is well controlled on other asthma medicines. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. i know symbicort won't replace a rescue inhaler. within 15 minutes symbicort starts to improve my lung function and begins to treat my symptoms. that makes symbicort a good choice for me. you have choices. ask your doctor if symbicort is right for you. (announcer) if you cannot afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. did i wake you up? >> there he is. >> there he is. >> sleepy face. going into the airport. they're coming home. here they come. ready or not. >> larry: this is a happy night for us around "larry king live" here at cnn.

joining us are joe and jill wilgens. they were in the process of finalizing the adoption. he travelled to haiti last week to bring their son and other children home to the united states. joe, jill, and samuel are here with us now. joining us in a while, jason and jamie stanley. they were the adopting parents of 6-year-old twins from haiti when the earthquake hit. the twins arrived in the united states on friday with wilkins' son, samuel. the stanleys' daughters are there with the family. first we'll concentrate here on the wilkins. what's it like, joe, to finally have him home? >> it's wonderful to have him here. we've been looking for this for the past several months, and over a year now. and being a dad for three days, everything is new and --

>> larry: first child? >> first child, yes. >> larry: how did he handle the flight? >> from haiti he slept the whole flight, so that was nice. of course, i had two other kids next to me, so i was kind of -- they were a little more -- >> larry: you had 80 on the plane altogether? >> we had 81 on the plane. >> larry: they dispersed in miami? >> we went through immigration for seven and a half hours while they did the paperwork. that was a time i'll never forget. >> larry: when can he become a citizen? >> well, you know, larry, that's one mountain we have ahead of us. i think a lot of us were at the legalization point where we had -- he had our last name, since that time we've lost that. we have to start over. we don't know what it entails yet. we haven't had a lot of information shared. we're just praying that the government does the right thing and possibly grants these kids u.s. citizenship. they've been through so much already, and starting over seems like too much of a mountain in

front of us. >> samuel is 20 months? >> yes, 20 months. >> what happened to his parents? >> his parents were killed in a natural disaster in 2008 when he was only about 4 months old. >> larry: the hurricane? >> we believe so. >> larry: he's been at the orphanage ever since? >> he came in in november 2008 to the orphanage and we were matched up in december of 2008. >> larry: do they give you a lot of information about his health? >> at least when he was at the orphanage, we got monthly updates on his size, his height, his weight, if there are any illnesses with him. >> larry: do you expect a long battle on citizenship? >> i pray not, larry. obviously we've been at this since 2007, our adoption process. we need it to be over. we need him to be with us for good and not worry about it. >> larry: you stay here. let's go to des moines, iowa. jason and jamie stanley are in the process of finalizing an adoption from the same agency.

how are the kids doing, jason? >> they're doing very well, larry. thanks for asking. you may notice, we're down one daughter. everything was a little overwhelming for us. whitney is off the screen right now but here in person. >> larry: and ali is there, right? >> she's right here, that's right. they're doing very well. it was a little overwhelming for them, but they're really fitting into the family well. we got a new puppy for christmas and that seems to be breaking the ice. she's mothering her and having a great time with her. >> larry: do they have the same citizenship issue as the wilkins? >> they do, yes. >> larry: so you think you're going to have a battle on your hands? >> we might. we haven't had an opportunity to talk with our social worker yet, but we'll do that hopefully this week to understand what we need today and whether an adoption attorney needs to get involved. we'll do whatever we need to do. we've come three years and won't stop now. >> larry: will the state of iowa

be involved? >> most likely. that's our understanding, yes. unless there's a change we don't know about that we hope will happen. as jill mentioned we hope there's an opportunity for them to not make all the families go through this, but we will do what we need to do because they're our kids. >> larry: more with our new families within we come back. ever worn your clothes in the shower?

if you're using other moisturizing body washes, you might as well be. you see, their moisturizer sits on top of skin, almost as if you're wearing it. only new dove deep moisture has nutriummoisture, a breakthrough formula with natural moisturizers... that can nourish deep down. it's the most effective natural nourishment ever. new dove deep moisture with nutriummoisture. superior natural nourishment for your skin. at the mercedes-benz glk... when you study its engineering, its safety systems... and when you consider who will be riding with you... perhaps the question is not so much whether you can afford to drive a vehicle that is built this way...

but whether you can afford... not to. the glk. the engineering of mercedes-benz. see your authorized mercedes-benz dealer for special offers through mercedes-benz financial. ♪ sfx: can shaking openz financial. when you own a business, nothing beats the sound of saving time and money. and it's never been simpler to save - with regions lifegreen checkg and savings for business. you'll enjoy free online and mobile banking. and with regions quick deposit, you can deposit checks right from your desk. drop by and get started with a business financial review through a regions cashcor analysis. it's how business gets into the rhym of saving. regions it's time to expect more.

>> larry: joe was on the plane, right? >> i was, yes. >> larry: jason and jamie were in miami waiting for the twins, right? >> that's correct, yes. >> larry: what was that like, jason? >> it was wonderful. they put it up on the arrival board. we were able to see it came in, saw it landed. i got a picture of jamie pointing to it, the landing status. we didn't know at that time how much of a long haul we had in front of us. another eight or nine hours. we were happy they were on american soil. >> larry: how did the 6-year-olds react when they saw you? >> it was wonderful. he saw me and i said his name and he ran to me and hugged me stronger than i thought a 6-year-old could hug. she had a shy smile and gave me a hug. she was a little sick, so her

emotions were maybe a little tempered but they were happy. they were happy. >> larry: joe and jill, is the united states government getting involved in your hopeful matter to expedite things? >> we heard from a senator today through e-mail that said they were going to check on it. they had so many e-mails and they were behind on so many issues. we need to say this is priority, and we hope they stay involved and really do help us out. >> larry: we hope so, too. the same with you jason? do you expect the government to get involved? >> we hope so. we hope so. we don't really know. we haven't heard anything yet. we're waiting for that to be worked out, but we know there's other things on their minds as well with the orphans just created in haiti. we want them to be taken care of, too. the orphanage expects to be full again in two weeks tops. with the adoption status still

up in the air down there, they need support. who knows how long those kids will be there. >> larry: good luck to all of you. we'll stay on top of this story and keep in constant touch. great meeting the twins in des moines and here in los angeles to finally see samuel. say l.a. >> l.a. >> l.a. >> larry: good enough. ivan watson covered this story from the beginning. he's in port-au-prince with the latest. you have the story of a man construction worker. what's that about, ivan? >> reporter: yeah. he was a realtor, larry, and basically i found a guy. he was starting to try to take apart what's left of his house and try to salvage a few things. i followed him home to where he's now living. this guy had a three-story house, he was renting out the

bottom floors to help pay for his college kids tuition. now he's living in a sprawling refugee camp and it's filthy. his whole family is sleeping on the ground in this filthy place and everything that he owned, everything that he worked for was in this house that was smashed. even if he gets some food from the u.s. military or from aid organizations, this guy's dignity is crushed. he's accustomed to working and making a good life for his kids and his family. now they're sleeping under a sheet. it's really, really tough to see this guy in this awful position. >> larry: ivan, wouldn't construction workers be in demand in haiti now? >> reporter: this man was actually a real estate agent, and i think he was making a lot of money renting out the ground floor of his building as renting it out basically to help pay for his family.

that's gone now. i asked him, you know, everybody is alive and everybody is okay, and yes, everybody is okay, but now what? what does this guy do now? what do hundreds of thousands of other people like him do? getting a bag of rice, it's wonderful and it will keep them alive for a week maybe, for four days. imagine how much they lost. i asked his daughter does it make you sad living here? the tent was like a sauna. she kind of said, very, very, very. she just stared off into the distance and tried not to cry. it's a 17-year-old girl. >> larry: thanks, ivan. we'll be in touch again tomorrow. ivan watson doing great work, by the way. food and supplies are slowly making it to the survivors of haiti's earthquake. we'll talk to two people helping bring in that relief when we come back.

[ birds screech ] [ loud rumbling ] [ rifle fires ] [ announcer ] if you think about it, this is what makes theladders different... from other job search sites. we only want the big jobs. join theladders.com. only $100k+ jobs and only $100k+ talent. and now, all premium members get a free résumé critique.

>> larry: we're just learning tonight that actor john travolta is flying one of his jets to haiti tonight on a relief mission. we're told he's bringing supplies and a group of nurses to the country to help. let's check back with anderson cooper. what are we focusing on on "ac 360" tonight, anderson? >> larry, a lot of different stuff. we'll bring you up to date on what is happening today and some of the dramatic things over the weekend. thousands of children newly orphaned, this is a new generation of orphans in this country. i spoke with one doctor at a

hospital camp outside port-au-prince who is worried about kids under her care may be stolen, taken by childhood traffickers. we'll talk to unicef and members from save the children about their concerns and on you real these concerns of trafficking are. we have remarkable new video tonight that shows the panic and the horror immediately after the earthquake. we just got this today. a lot of haitians are concerned that each new aftershock will trigger another disaster. dr. sanjay gupta takes a look at the fear invading this capital, and how will this country recover? we look inside the presidential palace. we look at how the government here is operating and/or not operating and how everybody plans to contribute to the rebuilding of this country. those stories and a lot more, larry, on "360." >> larry: that's "ac 360" at the top of the hour. 10:00 eastern, 7:00 pacific. joining us is bill white.

he's joining the board of directors of the catholic group, a group working in haiti since 1912. also there is dr. jeanne francois, cmmb's country director for haiti. what's the situation from your standpoint on the ground? >> well, larry, thanks so much for having us, cmmb on your show. go to cmmb.org to understand what this amazing organization is doing. but i spent about 20 minutes today with the general over at the united states embassy and he discussed with us in detail the amazing efforts on behalf of the haitian people by the u.s. military and other militaries out there helping. they're doing a phenomenal job. i want to thank the u.s. military for always being there and for being such a strong support for the people of haiti. one thing, larry, i want to tell you. 13,000 drivers in new york city,

the hispanics across america donated half a million pounds of food, water, clothing and medical supplies and it came to us in the intrepid because of our affiliation with the military. we'll be getting those items into haiti on thursday or friday. that's why we're here today to make sure that gets out to the haitian people. i want to thank all those that donated, especially the military for helping us to coordinate. this is a real hero. this doctor next to me, larry, lost her leg and so she understands as a doctor, as a woman who's working here, what the real needs are of these people today. >> larry: the health care system wasn't the best to begin with. you seem to be -- aren't you up against it, diane? >> larry, i didn't hear what you said. sorry. >> larry: isn't the problem humongous, the problem kuo face?

>> yes, it is humongous. it's humongous. there's no word to describe what we are seeing now. and the patients that are all over the place, some of them have no supplies, not enough surgical antibiotic supplies for the patients. many physicians but no medical supplies, and those people are sitting there, standing there with open fractures, hip fractures, and if the american physician or other doctors without borders whatever physicians where they come from, if they leave, those people are still there for a long, long, long time without the care that they need. we need the antibiotic supplies. >> larry: we'll check back with both of you. go to cmmb.org. thank you both. up next, $787 billion of your tax money is being used to fix the economy. a year after the stimulus bill was passed, we ask, is it working? a debate from the left and right when we come back.

>> larry: before we get into the stimulus project as promised, ed henry reports tonight that president obama is set to announce a three-year freeze on non-security discretionary spending. it would freeze discretionary spending at $447 billion. joining us to talk about that and to debate the stimulus and

whether it's actually working, robert reich, he was secretary of labor in the clinton administration and now professor of public policy, university of california berkeley. his most recent book is "super capitalism." and representative ron paul of texas a member of the house armed services committee and the joint economic committee. he's the author of "end of the fed." what do you make, we'll start with you, robert, of the freezing of domestic programs for three years? >> i don't think it makes much sense, larry. i'll tell you why. the government under the circumstances we face is the purchaser of last resort. consumers are not buying. they're still scared for good reason. businesses are not investing very much. they don't want to invest if they're not consumers out there. government has to spend. this is something that a lot of people have difficulty understanding, because you don't want bigger deficits in the long term, but in the short-term government has to spend more to

get the economy moving, to get jobs so people can actually work and generate a larger economy and therefore if the outside budget, long-term budget down. having a freeze right now on discretionary spending and effectively saying to the world, to wall street, to the country we're not doing any more deficit spending makes absolutely no sense. >> larry: all right. congressman paul, your thoughts. >> well, i don't think mr. reich has too much to worry about. nothing is going to be frozen in washington, d.c. as a matter of fact, even what obama is saying is not going into effect for a year, and the congress won't let it happen. i think mr. reich's sentiments are well represented in washington. i actually want to see more money spent, not less. it's just that who has the discretion to spend it? that's the issue. when the government spends it, think mal-invest it. we don't have the problem because there's not enough consumption or spending. that is not going to solve the problem.

what we should have done is maybe suspend the income tax for three years. it would have cost us less than bailing out the big banks and all the special interests. i mean, the people could make a decision on whether they should liquidate their debt and how to invest. this would be a wiser choice. >> larry: quickly, robert . >> i just want to agree, bailing out the big banks instead of helping main street was a version of trickle down economics and it doesn't work. >> larry: we're scheduled to discuss the stimulus. we'll begin by showing you an interview by diane sawyer that aired on abc tonight. the president making his case for the handling of the economy. let's listen. >> the economy is growing again and we did create or save several million jobs. that's not my opinion. that's the opinion of conservative economists as well as liberal economists but we

still lost 7 million jobs. and so i understand why the american people, their attitude is not it could have been worse. their attitude is how do we make sure we keep on getting it better? that's what we'll be talking about on wednesday. >> larry: simply put, robert, is the stimulus working? same question for both of you. we'll start with robert. >> i think the official unemployment rate would be about 13% were are t not for the stimulus. for all the reasons i just gave you, when everybody else stopped spending, the government is the spender of last resort. i don't know. i can't guarantee, nobody knows what will happen next year. given the fact that the states are in fekt mounting an anti-stimulus package because they are raising taxes and cutting jobs and services we'll have to rely on more from the federal government. >> larry: ron? >> well, i think it's hard to measure the number of jobs saved or not. i think the stimulus obviously

helped wall street. wall street is doing very, very well. but to say the stimulus should have -- stimulus was the answer and just do more of it fails to recognize that the government spends money. it does help the gdp. there's a big difference if people get money, save money and it's invested -- building cars or something versus when the government takes the money and spends it on a make-work job or spends money on a weapons system that gets blown up overseas or bombs blown up overseas. that raises the gdp. right now, the happiest people are at wall street, the very people that got bailed out and the employment numbers, these people were very unhappy. i do think it's a stretch to know the number of jobs they saved. as you pointed out -- the president pointed out, there are a lot less jobs available right now. >> we'll pick up on that in a moment. all week long, cnn is breaking down how the $787 billion stimulus money is being spent. we're calling it the stimulus

project. you can get more in-depth information on all this at cnn.com/stimulus. more with ron paul and robert reich when we come back. it runs in families - my mother has it, and now i have it. so even though i tried to keep my bones strong, it wasn't enough. now, once-monthly bonivais . it didn't just stop my bone loss. boniva worked with my body to stop and reverse my bone loss. and studies show, after one year on boniva, nine out of ten women stopped and reversed theirs, too. (announcer) don't take boniva if you have low blood calcium, severe kidney disease, or can't sit or stand for at least one hour. follow dosing instructions carefully. stop taking boniva and tell your doctor if you have difficult or painful swallowing, chest pain or severe or continuing heartburn, as these may be signs of serious upper digestive problems. if jaw problems or severe bone, joint, and/or muscle pain develop, tell your doctor. you've got one body and one life, so don't wait. ask your doctor if boniva can help you stop losing and start reversing.

(announcer) for a free trial offer call 1-800-4-boniva or visit boniva.com

>> larry: we're back talking about whether president obama's $787 billion stimulus is a success or a failure with robert reich and ron paul, let's take a call. hobart, indiana. >> caller: my question is for the senator. >> larry: go ahead. the congressman. >> caller: president obama spent more in the first year of his press presidency than bush spent in his last term. is he trying to act welcome a populous or pivoting to the right? >> the fact it isn't going to go into effect in 2011, i would say there's a little bit of politicking going on. i don't think there will be a freeze. if they did freeze at a high level i think that would be very bad. i'm not necessarily for a freeze. i want to reduce spending. bring the money back home so more of the money can flow into

education and medicine and different things. i want cuts but i want the people to spend money. but when the government spends money on a job, they may create a job. what you don't see is you may have taken a better longer lasting job away from the economy. even if you can prove there's been a couple extra jobs, it doesn't really solve the problem. >> larry: are you generally optimist nick this climate? >> i wish i could be. i see the extent of misery, homelessness, people worried about losing their homes or savings and frankly, i worry. i look to 2011 and say to myself, once the stimulus ends as it will and if there is a spending freeze and if the fed does what the fed is likely to do, tighten and raise interest rates, where is the motivation going to come? where's the energy, where's the demand going to come from in our economy?

again, consumers, businesses and exports can't lift the economy by themselves. i wish i could be as optimistic as ron paul about the capacity of the country to just pull money out of national defense and bring it home and give it to consumers. it all sounds good but i tell you, i don't know too many republicans who want to take money out of national defense. >> larry: costa mesa, california, quickly. >> caller: is it possible to change the economy ultimately without getting out of these trade deals that we have, wto and all these trade deals we have with china and the rest of the world? do we have to get out of those? >> larry: ron? >> well, i don't think you have to. some of those things we would get out of. i think the problem with what mr. reich says is that the country's bankrupt is our problem. if i'm bankrupt or somebody else abrupt, what they do, they have

to pull back, quit spending, they have to work harder and pay off their debt. we have dreamed up this concoction under keynesian economics that you don't have to do that. just print more money, run up deficits, pass it out and everybody will do the right thing. they say what you should do is liquidate debt, get rid of the investment, start over again. get the prices of houses down. don't prop the houses up. stimulate housing. what i see we're doing is exactly the opposite of what we should do. >> larry: robert, 30 seconds. >> ron paul sounds like herbert hoover in 1932. they said liquidate everything and everything will be fine. it took franklin d. roosevelt and ultimately the second world war to show everybody that keynesianism was right. if you have to spend and go into debt to