shea here. >> celebrities make money and stories like this. >> they're paying their lawyers even more than to pay the court to get it over with. >> this dove tails nicely into the whole show today. the lawyers and doctors. >> that's right, money. >> that does it for this edition of "360." thanks for watching. larry king starts right now. . >> larry: it was an all-day slugfest, clashes over health care reform. >> because uz we're not campaigning. the election is over. >> tempers and taunts on display. now the debate continues as doctors bui doctors and frist and howard dean duke it out here. who's at fault for a trainer's death, the whale or captors. bob barker tells us what he

thinks. then, the hurt locker. highlights from the real life hell lived by soldiers who diffuse bombs. the oscar-nominated film's director and star take us into this dangerous and deadly world of explosives next on "larry king live." good evening. president obama, members of his cap net, members of congress, both sides of the aisle held a lenty televised summit on health care reform today. here's a little of the style and substance of a highly charged meeting. >> this bill, this 2700-page bill will bankrupt our country. >> you're wrong about your bill. it would increase premiums, i believe. you say it wouldn't. >> i'm pretty certain i'm not wrong. >> i'm dead in that insurance market if i have to switch policies or switch companies. >> let me make this point, john, because we're not campaigning here.

the election is over. >> i've reminded of that every day. >> yeah. >> you're entitled to your opinions, but not your own facts. >> this is a ponzi scheme that would may bernie madoff proud. >> politics, i think, ended up trumping practical common sense. >> larry: with us are two distinguished americans, one a former governor and one a former senator and both physicians both in washington. dr. howard dean, former chairman of the democratic national committee and former governor of vermont. and dr. bill frist, former republican senator from tennessee who was the senate majority leader. he's a heart and lung transplant surgeon and author of "a heart to serve." what does it accomplish, howard? >> i thought it was refreshing

to have people in the same room talking mostly policy, some politics but mostly policy. it was good for both the republicans and the president. >> larry: what do you think, bill? >> first of all, it was amazing to me after having spent 12 years here, 6 years with president clinton and 6 years with president bush, i saw nothing like that, to have a president of the united states spend seven hours moderating in a very fair fashion some really good ideas from both sides of the aisle. i thought it was very, very impressive. politically i think it accomplished nothing. very important for america and the process and very important for the understanding of the american people of how washington works. nothing's been changed compared to where we started at 8:00 this morning. >> i don't quite agree with that. i tell you why. i think what the president wanted -- set out to do and did do what he set out to do, which was to show that it was commonalty between the republican and democratic position. that's a subtle way of undermining the republicans who

don't want to pass anything. so i think that -- i don't want to get in a big partisan fight here, but i think the president absolutely accomplished what he said he wanted to do. i noticed something unusual, and that was the republican were not on message. the ones in the room went well, but the television cut to people outside the room doing the partisan talking points. i thought that was tough for the republicans. so i think something was accomplished. i think this is going to make it easier for the president to get health care passed, and his case is the republicans aren't interested in helping us. >> if you'd have been there today, bill, is there a key point you would have added or made? >> i think one of the beautiful things about it is that all of the issues were discussed, two issues, the cost issue where republicans are strong where i think the american people are probably grounded more, and then there's an access issue, which wasn't covered quite as much. it was 3 million of the republicans versus 18 or 20 what the democrats were going to

cover. the one thing i would have added because the comprehensive health care bill on the table doesn't do it and that is really transform how you get value out of medicine. how you get results. how you get outcomes and change the way medicine is practiced to make it less wasteful, to cut that 30% of waste out of it. there's nothing in the bill that changes the way medicine is practiced, and thus, it comes to this value equation that explains the cost issue as well as access. >> that's absolutely true. that's one thing we agree on. if you want to change what we do here, you have to stop paying us the way you pay us. if you pay us to do things to you, we'll do a lot of things to you. you pay hospitals and doctors by the procedure, and you ought to pay us by the result. >> larry: how, are we going to get a weakened measure? >> i don't think. this is a weak measure. bill and i were talking. bill is now to my left. we ought to get rid of the individual man datd, because i

don't think it's necessary and makes people mad, republicans and democrats mad, and i think you ought to have some form of an a public option to some inform people under 65 seo that somebody can get insurance after this bill is signed. if you go into this election in 2010 and 2012 without doing much for increasing the number of insured people in this country, which is what this bill doesn't do much for, i think the democrats are going to pay a huge price. a little public option, get rid the mandate, everybody is a little happier, pass the bill. >> bill, is some kind of health care reform better than none at all? both sides were suggesting today let's do something. >> they were, larry, absolutely. we have 30 million uninsured in this country, and that's too many in a country as rich as ours. we have health care costs going up, we have entitlement programs that medicare and medicaid out of control and are going to go bankrupt eventually. we have to get health care done. today signaled the end of any

consideration or serious consideration of comprehensive health care reform today. i think it's dead. i think it came across. at the end of the president's comments today, again, i thought he did a very, very good job and very fair job, he said, we're not going to take baby steps. i think the idea of scaling back to something that governor dean just mentioned or having a series of incremental steps occur over the next year is very unlikely according to the president. comprehensive health care reform is dead. i think the president after six weeks basically signaled at the end he'll move on to jobs, the economy, other issues where he'll be more successful. >> larry: howard, obviously, i guess the public option is gone, right? >> i don't think so. i continue to argue. we had 59 votes for a medicare expansion in the house to people under 65. excuse me. in the senate. we're very, very close. in fact, joe lieberman said he was going to vote for it and changed his mind. it would have passed. we can have some meaningful

comprehensive health care reform. the president is going to try and get something through. i think it's good for political reasons and people want to see a strong president. i commend the president for coming back and not giving up on this. people don't like presidents that give up, and he didn't. >> larry: in the weeks ahead we'll see lots of both of you, two distinguished americans, dr. howard dean and dr. bill frist. so what if anything was accomplished by today's meeting? we'll talk about it with our panel next. honda accord and toyota camry stand behind their powertrain for up to 60,000 miles. chevy malibu stands behind theirs for up to 100,000 miles. which makes it pretty clear whose standing out front. a consumers digest "best buy" two years running. chevy malibu. compare it to anyone and may the best car win. now, get a low mileage lease on this 2010 malibu for

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and dr. paul song, the radiation oncologist and a member of physicians for a national health program. how do you think that went today, ben? >> i thought it was a very impressive show. i thought it was a show of civility, intelligence. i though the points of view were put across. what i think was sort of kept away, in addition to the points that the two doctors before us just made was, basically at the end of the day if there's going to be a health plan it's going to involve higher-income people paying money to lower-income people. i think that is sort of being sugar coated. we have, i think, have to wrap our minds around the fact if we're going to take care of everyone around this country there's going to have to be higher taxes for it on well-to-do people.

>> larry: dr. song, what did you think of today? >> the problem is if you look at the senate bill it's not scheduled to take place until 2014. the house bill isn't going to go into effect until 2013. in that time over 45,000 americans are going to die each year because they're uninsured. the number of medical-related bankruptcy going to increase by over 50%. a lot of people are going to be suffering and lost during this time that we're debating over actual reform. >> larry: dr. healy, do you think progress was made today? >> i don't think progress was made today. i think there was a clearer definition of where the two sides were. i think there's also very sobering recognition they are far apart. though in the beginning there was a lot of talk, gee, we're almost there. i think senator baucus said there were not many differences. by the end of the day it was perfectly evident there are huge differences and that there's a good chance the president was going to have to go this alone if he's going to go. >> larry: dr. rohack, do you expect some bill to come out of this? >> the status quo is unacceptable and i think it was clear in that room.

people recognize we need to do something and stalemate isn't good for the american public. physicians across america will continue to see our patients but it's going to be very difficult when they don't have health insurance. they come to us sicker, maybe die younger and using the emergency room as an access point that everybody's paying for. we really need to be focused on what we can do to make sure patients and doctors can continue to get the care that the doctor feels is best for their patient. >> larry: ben, your point about well-off people helping poor people, isn't that as american as cherry pie? >> i -- it is as american as apple pie. it's an extremely good idea. i don't think the president wants to admit that's what's going to have to happen. there's going to have to be a subsidy from high-income people to low-income people. this is an idea president nixon had in 1973 and i think it's a darn good idea. >> larry: dr. song, do you expect a bill out of this? >> i do, but unlike 1994 when

president clinton did the bill behind closed doors and then gave it to congress. president obama made the mistake of giving this to congress and allowing them to write it from the beginning. the problem with that you have lobbyists for 533 members of congress. roughly six lobbyist for one member of congress spending $1.4 million a day. roughly more than that was spent on the kerry/bush election. and in doing so that's why this bill looks like it was written by the insurance industry. >> larry: money talks? >> absolutely. >> larry: let's take a break and come back with more on this edition of "larry king live." don't go away.

what we've been saying is let scrap the bill. let's start with a clean sheet of paper on those things that we can agree on. >> as we sit around this table i think we should be mindful of what they do when they sit around their kitchen table. what we do here must be relevant to their lives. and for them they don't have time for us to start over. >> larry: dr. healy, do you agree with the president that they can't start over? >> no, actually i don't, because i think that -- i think that they have an obligation to be very concrete with the american public and i think that what is not coming out is the fact that it's not clear what they're going to start over over. and the reality is that we're

not talking about the fact that this bill is about taking a lot of money out of medicare and medicare people don't know what that's going to mean to them. it is about putting a lot of people into medicaid. 15 million people into medicaid at $15,000 a head. we don't know what that's going to happen at the level of the patient and the doctor. i was a little disappointed in the discussion today in that the patient was never mentioned and how the patient would be pushed around on this chess board. >> larry: dr. rohack, as president of the ama, does it annoy you for want of a better word that this rich nation has never had a national insurance plan? >> well, the american medical association believes that we need to have a pluralistic system. that is, a robust private sector that allows innovation but a public sector safety net. what drives us is the tax code. we know that right now the tax code is the advantage to the

employers and when employers don't provide health insurance the individual market becomes unaffordable for individuals to provide it. so the ama feels very strongly that we need to make sure that every american has affordable, quality health insurance coverage and then we can also look at how do we reduce the unnecessary cost to pay for it? defensive medicine and the administrative waste that right now dries up health care costs both for the insurer, the doctor, and the hospital as well as the patient. >> larry: ben stein, are we ever going to see it? >> i think we'll see it eventually. i don't think we need to smash the whole system and start afresh the way president obama tried to do it. i go back again and again to saying the problem is poor people who don't have health insurance. >> larry: i know. >> why don't we just give them money to have health insurance? i don't think we're ever going to get the waste out of the system. i've been hearing about getting waste out of government expenditures and medical expenditures my whole life. they never do it. it gets worse and worse. it's never going to stop. let's give poor people money to buy insurance policies and let them not die and let them not be sick. >> larry: the nixon plan. do you like that, dr. song? >> i like the idea of giving low-income people access to buy

health insurance, but the problem is with the current health care system you don't have competition in these health care insurance industries operate as a monopoly, take 30 cents of every delay away from patient care. you end up giving patients no choice in what they ultimately can get in really good care for themselves. >> larry: we'll have all of our panel back in nights ahead as we look at this very important topic. thank you all. we now know the exact cause of the death in the killer whale tragedy. there are other questions to answer. we'll talk to jack hanna and bob barker about it, next. [ female announcer ] it's lobsterfest.

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>> larry: the orange county florida sheriff's office says the medical examiner ruled dawn brandcheau died from multiple traumatic injuries and drowning yesterday after one of seaworld's killer whales pulled her into a pool behind shamu stadium. according to the sheriff's office, all evidence and witness statements indicates her death was a tragic accident. bob barker, jack hanna with us. let's go to julie scardina, animal ambassador for seaworld and busch gardens. she knew dawn brandcheau very well. what, if anything, can the seaworld attraction do about this, julie? >> well, right now we're obviously concentrating on, you know, sending our thoughts and prayers and any support that dawn's family needs to them. and we're sending our deepest sympathies to them, of course. on top of that we're doing an investigation into exactly what happened so that we can

determine what steps to take next. >> larry: is seaworld closed? >> no. seaworld is open, although we're not doing the shamu shows currently right now. >> larry: do you think it will be a while before they come back? >> well, that's hard for me to determine right now. certainly it's going to depend on, you know, what is found and there are a lot of internal experts as well as external experts that are going to be consulted. all that process will be in the works over the next few days, weeks, and potentially months depending on exactly what happened. you know, i knew dawn and she was such a passionate trainer and i knew she loved those whales, so i know it will come to a good conclusion in terms of, you know, what it meant to her. >> larry: i hope so. thank you, julie scardina. let's meet our panel. in west palm beach, jack hanna. host of "into the wild." on the phone old friend, bob

barker. form famous tv game show host best known for his years on "the price is right." longtime animals right activist. ingrid newkirk, president of peta. jack hanna is probably outnumbered here 2-1. we'll start with bob. you sent a letter to the owners of seaworld urging them to release mammals to sanctuaries. why do you believe that is the best response to yesterday's tragedy? >> i don't believe whales belong in these tiny tanks that they are kept in. i think they belong in the ocean where nature intended for them to be. these thanks, for a whale, are about like having one of us in the bathtub told that we have to learn some tricks and if we do our tricks well enough that we will be fed. and i think that if animals

suffering for a whale to be in the tanks in the first place and to have to learn these ridiculous tricks and perform for the entertainment of man is a total disrespect for the whales. >> larry: jack hanna, how do you respond? >> i respond by saying, dawn was a friend and i'm sorry for the loss. i'm still getting over that. as far as mr. barker i admire your work for spaying and neutering animals. i really do admire you for that. however, when statements are made in your letter which is right here, which are mostly totally inaccurate, especially the statement that says, the only thing people learn from visiting a seaworld theme park is it how miserable life is for the animals there. 12 million people visited seaworld parks last year and 90% of the folks said it was the most incredible experience of their life. also when you talk about the whales that are there, 95% of the whales there were born at seaworld. that says something. like most -- 99% of our animals at zoological parks are born at the parks.

we don't pluck them from the wild. the work that seaworld has done -- by the way, larry, $67 million dollars was spent last year at seaworld, the marine mammals park and many hundreds of animals they release to the wild. if it wasn't for seaworld animals like the manatee in florida might not be in existence right now. i know what seaworld does. i go there as a visitor and a person who loves to watch that park and see what they do. >> larry: ingrid, don't you think the public loves this, though? we've had this tragedy but doesn't the public respond to this? >> let me say, larry, there are two victims here. this whale who was captured in the wild when he was 2 years old and spent a quarter of a century in this bathtub-like existence as bob says. he's a male whale. he's raging with hormones. he wants to swim. he wants to mate. he wants to have freedom like all living creatures.

and they are treated like wind-up toys because this is an amusement park. the only reason they have them is because they do bring people in who want to see a large animal up close. if i were a parent i would run screaming from this place not only because my child might see a trainer killed but might come away with the idea that this is all right, acceptable way to keep animals. and it isn't. as bob said, they belong in the wild. >> larry: let me get a break and come back. again, we've outnumbered jack 2-1. we'll give him a little edge here when we return. don't go away. created. a car that can help awaken its driver if he begins to doze. keep him in his lane if he starts to wander. even stop itself... if he becomes distracted. if you want to see the future of the automobile, look at where the e-class is...today. this is the 9th generation e-class. this...is mercedes-benz. see your authorized mercedes-benz dealer for exceptional offers through mercedes-benz financial.

>> larry: bob barker, how do you respond about what jack hanna said seaworld being in large part beneficial to the creatures? >> i can't understand how he could possibly say that being confined in this tiny tank was beneficial to this whale. and i've been told that the whale has taken part in the death of two other humans and the question i've been asked most often is, why in the world was this whale in the tank? why was it continued part of this so-called show? >> larry: good point. jack? >> well, first off, let me say that ingrid, i wish that ingrid, your passion which is totally different than mine, and my passion could ever be put together with the zoological world. there's no telling what

difference it could make. i don't know if ingrid has children or not. 180 million people went to our zoos and aquariums. 10 -- 180 million people. ingrid has -- the education we do for folks in the seaworld parks is something that has to be done. as you well know, ingrid, in the wild and bob, what's happening in the world right now, the creatures out there suffering because of pollution. because of all man-made things we have done. the zoological part -- 99% of our animals were born in our zoos. we have to continue that. bob refers to these as tanks. these are habitats. the whale has bred at seaworld and produced many needed killer whales at those parks. that's valuable to the parks. they're doing research to find out about the killer whale in the wild. god help us if ever the seaworlds were to go away because they know more about the killer whales that ingrid, myself, and any parks put together. they know about the killer whale in the wild. >> larry: how about his point, jack, if that whale killed before, why keep them in the tank?

>> larry, larry, it has killed before. larry, didn't our astronauts go up in the space shuttle and we lost them when they came back? it was a terrible thing. they went back up in space, didn't they? we want to learn from space and help mankind. that's what seaworld does. our business is it's called a killer whale. these are dangerous animals. yes, we know that, larry, bob, ingrid. this young lady sacrificed her life and would be sitting here today saying she'd do it again for the great work she's done and seaworld has done to educate tens of millions of people over the last 46 years. out of 2 million plus encounters with these whales, larry, this is the first time this has happened at a seaworld park with a trainer. >> larry: ingrid, do you want to close seaworld? >> absolutely. this is actually the third human being. this one particular whale has killed. one of his sons killed another trainer in spain last year. and i believe that seaworld has helped kill these trainers because they've known that for the sake of profit they wanted to keep on with these shows. i hope they get sued from here

to mozambique because money is what they understand. these animals are swimming in their own diluted urine. nothing that they do is natural. >> larry, that's a lie. that's a total falsity. >> they -- >> ingrid, how much -- >> larry: we only have 20 seconds left. >> the time has passed. it's the 21st century. animals out of chains, animals out of marine parks. >> larry: i want to apologize to everybody we have limited time tonight. we will do more on this next week. we'll have you back, jack, i promise. >> that's totally inaccurate, larry. >> larry: we don't have enough time tonight. i really apologize. it's time to meet our cnn hero of the week. in a tiny colombian village, a teacher and father is finding a productive way to use his spare time. he's combatting illiteracy where kids can't get to school. he's doing it in a unique way. watch.

>> in the villages life goes on in a stationary way. reading has shown me things i won't see in my lifetime. my name is luis soriano. my classroom is not traditional. >> translator: consists of books placed on saddles on top of my donkeys. it's not easy to travel through this valleys. you sit on a donkey for five or eight hours. you get very tired. we go to places where a child has to work or ride a donkey for up to 40 minutes to reach the closest school. when they learn how to read the child discovers a new world like i did. these children need it. of course, they want to learn. that's what keeping motivating me to ride.

>> larry: want to know what it's like to defuse bombs during wartime? we'll talk to "the hurt locker's" director, star and screenwriter. and to a man who has real life on the job experience. you don't want to miss this, next. i love winter. with my subaru forester and its all wheel drive, handling even the toughest conditions is just another day at the beach. subaru, the only manufacturer with 2010 iihs top safety picks for all models.

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>> larry: welcome back. "the hurt locker" is nominated for nine academy awards including best picture. best director. best original screen play. best actor. it recently won six bafter awards including best picture, best director, best original screenplay. director kathryn bigelow won the director guild's top prize. she joins us along with the screenwriter and star, jeremy renner. they, too, are nominated for academy awards. also with us, jim o'neal who served as an explosive disposable tech and officer for 18 years. "the hurt locker" is an intense, edge of your seat drama about soldiers who have one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. disarming bombs. let's take a look.

>> 2:00, dude has a phone. >> put down the phone! >> come on, guys, talk to me. >> drop the phone! drop your phone! put down the cell phone! drop your phone! >> put it down. go get it! >> larry: this movie, as i said pentagon -- publicly is unbeliefable. one of the greatest war movies ever made. with us, jim o'neal, who did this kind of stuff for real, and vick one of our top security men decked out in what these guys wear. before we talk about the movie, show us this suit. describe it. >> thanks. this is a typical bomb suit you're going to be finding

working with the ied teams and counter-ied teams in iraq and afghanistan today. it's used in the continental united states with plenty of bomb squads as well as many other foreign countries. it basically consists of three pieces. the leggings which are held up by suspenders. underneath the protective jacket. the final piece and most important is the melhelmet that keeps your head on. >> larry: what does it protect you from? >> protects against blast and protects against thermal and protects against fragmentation. >> larry: how hot is it in there? >> it's pretty hot in here. >> larry: got to be pretty rough in places like afghanistan, iraq, 120, 130 degrees. >> it's pretty rough. during the winter -- during the summertime when the temperatures are in the 100s, 110, 120, take a walk outside sometime when it's in the 100s and get a taste. this thing is 67 pounds of thick

material. >> larry: how much does this cost? >> $21,000. >> larry: what's the material? >> i'm not sure factually what the material is, larry. >> larry: nothing the felt before. >> i wouldn't make your suits out of it. >> larry: do you have to work out to wear this? do you have to be in good shape. >> have to be in very good shape to wear it. not only the heat, weight of the suit, walking long distance. you have to have fairly good cardio and know how to pace yourself. >> larry: this is a volunteer service. why did you volunteer? >> it was the right thing to do. it suited my personality. the guys who i met that i was talking to before i went into eods were the type of guys i wanted to hang around. >> larry: what theater war were you in? >> desert storm where i did most of my action. >> larry: did you ever come close to buying it? >> well, yeah. couple times. but it's just move on. >> larry: what are the rewards of this service? >> the rewards are a knowledge of a job well done, first off. the second thing is the knowledge that you actually through your own personal efforts and training and professionalism saved a life. the biggest thing the techs are

committed to is saving a life. willing to risk theirs, walk down range to save another person while exposing themselves to the danger. >> larry: you've experienced it, worn this uniform. what did you expect of the movie? >> i had no expectations of the movie. when we first received the movie to watch, went in there with a clean slate. not knowing what to expect, we didn't hear much about it. i thoroughly enjoyed the movie. the people that we watched the movie with, 30 or 40 other techs, shared the thought. very entertaining. it was great to see the movie. it was great to have the profession exposed in a way like that. >> larry: are the people who do this adrenaline junkies? >> no. >> larry: what kind of person is it? >> a person committed to a purpose and a mission and has to be involved with something that seems worthwhile and, again, you get back to saving that life. it's almost like the firemen and policemen mentality. >> larry: thank you, vick. courage. when we come back, "hurt locker's" been cleaning up at the awards shows.

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cisco. ddon: ...no matter where youf walmart's $live.-day generic prescriptions... don: plus get free shipping on over 3,000 other prescriptions. don: call 1-800-2-refill for your free home delivery. save money. live better. walmart. coming up on "360," a major health care summit in washington. a historic one as well. a major political gamble for president obama. here's what matters to you. was anything accomplished? we're going to have the angles ahead including our "broken government series." spiraling health care costs including this, a $1,200

surgical stapler. i'll take you through an operating room to explain. and the cost of doing nothing to overhaul medical malpractice is leaving some doctors to practice what is called defensive medicine. guess what? we're all paying for it. it's all ahead for a full hour on 360. >> get back! get back! >> there's too many locks. there's too many. i can't do it. i can't get it off. i'm sorry. okay? you understand? i'm sorry. you hear me? i'm sorry. i'm sorry. get down, now! >> larry: one sure thing watching this film, you will not go get popcorn during the showing. with us, kathryn bigelow, brilliant director who is nominated for best director.

jeremy renner, star of "the hurt locker." he plays william james, nominated best actor. mark boal, brilliant screenplay. jim o'neal, executive director of eod memorial foundation remains with us. how did you come to put this together, kathryn? >> i was very lucky to be -- to know mark boal on a journalistic embed in baghdad in the winter of 2004 and when he came back he brought back such moving stories of both the chaos and tragedy of war. and the human cost that he observed, and then he wrote this magnificent screenplay. very courageous piece. we were both determined to make it. >> larry: some people might see it and say they're surprised a woman directed this, right? you've heard that i'm sure. >> i've heard that, yes. >> larry: do you resent that when you hear it? >> i don't resent it. i think of myself as a

filmmaker, and i suppose i long for the day when there's no mod fire in front of it. >> larry: you're a brilliant filmmaker. period. jeremy, how did you get the part? >> i talked to her over the phone. i was in london. i didn't know it at the time. she had seen a movie i did prior. it was about jeffrey dahmer. i didn't know this, but we ended up talking. i kept telling her why, and my thoughts and feelings about the character, the role and one of my first questions to her was, how do you want the audience to feel at the end of the movie when he walks off? got into it and i don't know, it was one of those things where i could smell her smile over the phone. it was just -- we really hit it off over the phone. i finally had to come meet this kid. he wasn't quite so convinced. he was so convinced jeffrey dahmer could play will james. >> larry: did you like the screenplay right away? >> oh, yeah. just one of those -- just one of those once in a lifetime opportunities i think. yeah. when you have a wonderful story about eod and that i didn't know anything about.

>> larry: did anything trigger the writing? an instance, something occur in which said, i want to do something with this? >> i had written the script and jeremy came onboard. after meeting him i thought, i really have to make this part better and give it more -- >> larry: really? >> because he has such range as an actor and the part was -- i thought it was good but it didn't have all the humor that he can do and it didn't have some of the surprise. and so i kind of tried to add some of that in there to take advantage of him. >> larry: what, jim, is a hurt locker? >> it's a term used when you find yourself in a not too good of a situation. and you have a really good chance of getting hurt. so they call it the hurt locker. >> larry: like you're locked in? >> yes, sir. >> larry: did you buy that title, kathryn? there are some who said, what does it mean? >> i loved it from the beginning. the minute he mentioned it i thought it was perfect. it's provocative.

you know, it's -- >> larry: what was it like to work in that suit? >> what do you think it's like? >> larry: terrible. >> terrible. yeah. it was a love/hate relationship with it. it informed me of so many things with the character. who he was. and i couldn't have done it any other way. but it was -- it was tough. it gave me so much respect for what these guys do. you know, i wasn't squatting over high explosives and so i'll never really kind of complain about it. was it difficult? yeah. >> larry: was the finished product, mark, everything you envisioned? >> it was more than that. i mean, it was what i envisioned and so much more, to see the actor and take the part and really bring it to life and see what katherine did with it. it was the experience of a lifetime to see it get made the way it did. >> larry: and, jim, as you said

earlier, you didn't know what to expect, right? >> didn't know what to expect. it was actually very, very well surprised at the end result. >> larry: we're going to take a break and come back and more we're going to show you a scene with jeremy renner in it right after this.

see any wires? any smoke? >> no. >> how do you know it's a bomb? >> the car has been parked illegally. the suspension is sagging. definitely something heavy in the trunk. >> why don't you walk over there and peek inside and tell me what you see. >> you want me to go close to it? >> yeah. i'm kidding. i'm kidding. >> larry: "hurt locker" is wildly intense. let's take a look at the academy award winner -- nominee -- you might win it -- jeremy renner, in action. watch. >> what's he doing? >> i don't know. >> what are you doing? >> enough in there to send us

all to jesus. i'm going to die. i'm going to die comfortable. >> larry: where did you film this, kathryn? >> we filmed it in the middle east in and around the city of amman, yord jordajordan. it was very hot. middle of summer. 115 degrees average temperature. that suit made it very -- a very punishing experience for jeremy. >> larry: were you there during the shooting, mark? >> i was. fortunately i was in an air-conditioned car. i was watching. >> i don't blame you. i would have been, too. >> larry: the powers that be in jordan cooperated then? >> very much so. it was a very generous place to shoot. >> larry: there's nothing political in this, right? it does not take a stand pro-war or against war? >> you're asking me? >> larry: yeah. >> i don't think so at all. i don't personally see there's a -- it's a cinema. we're telling a story of three characters doing a he really

interesting job. it happens to touch on something that's relevant. i think this is why the movie succeeds. it allows the audience to feel and think what they want to think and feel. >> larry: did you learn anything about explosives? >> a lot. >> larry: do you think you could disarm one? >> i wouldn't even try to. if your microphone was an ied i would say run, larry, run. i mean -- >> i would, too. >> he would, too. >> larry: do you wonder why people like jim did what he did? >> that was the first question i had to ask. always to get to the truth of what fuels a human being to want to do that. he captured i think a lot of what i heard in experience with eod. >> larry: in writing it, mark, you talked too these people, right? what's the common thread between them? >> well, honesty, because they are entrusted with a lot of classified information. and also i think a high tolerance for risk and most of all probably the ability to think under pressure.

it's one thing to be able to figure out a circuit board but another thing to be able to do that when someone's shooting at you or when the circuit board might blow up. so it's really probably a combination of those three things. >> larry: what is the biggest challenge in directing it, kathryn? >> well, probably putting all the moving parts together then in the middle east in the summer and trying to get, for instance, black powder in through various, like across syria and into jordan and it was just a very -- it was a very complicated shoot. just from the logistical standpoint. that was probably the most difficult. >> getting the money wasn't easy, either. >> larry: this is not an expensive film, is it? >> relative. more money than any of us had in the bank. none of the hollywood financiers wanted to make it, so we had a lot of doors slammed in our faces before we were able to find someone willing to take the risk. >> larry: frankly -- >> frankly, i don't blame them, by the way. i'm not saying that with resentment.

>> larry: based on the title and generally the fact this was an unknown factor, are you surprised at all the buzz that this movie is getting? >> well, i'm surprised and thrilled and it's so gratifying. >> larry: you've won awards already. people are picking you. you're not a long shot anymore to win best picture. >> well, it's really exciting. i think it's almost surreal is a very accurate way of putting it. none of us expected this when we were shooting this film. we were just working on a project we cared deeply about. a story we cared deeply about about men who arguably have the most dangerous job in the world. to have this happen i think is just -- it profoundly gratifying. >> larry: jim, do you think it will get people in service to volunteer for this? or not? >> i don't think it will deter anybody. i hope this isn't the only reason they think they want to do this type of job. they have to understand what the

risk and the perils and understand what the commitment and the training and the level of, you know, intense work is. it's just not -- it would be like somebody watching "top gun" and want to be a pilot. you have to understand what you're getting into before you want to do it. >> larry: directing action war scenes more difficult than others? different? >> well, directing a film that is based on an ongoing conflict -- >> larry: still going. >> which is still going and i think that was all very -- was extremely meaningful to us. i think we wanted to handle it -- handle the courage of the men and women still in the feel with as much honor and respect as we could. >> larry: congratulations to all of you. you're all winners. >> we won so long ago. >> larry: kathryn bigelow, jeremy renner, mark boal, jim o'neal, a former -- what do we call you?