them to make that, but an inventive offering from the group. >> did you see that guy? he looked like ali velshi. >> he's the bass guitarist. >> ali velshi. "larry king live" starts right now. see you tomorrow night. . tonight, a nation's rage, as a teenage honors student out for an innocent run is raped and murdered. the man charged with the crime a convicted sex offender who once molested a 13-year-old, served prison time and got out. how can the state explain chelsea king's death to her grieving parents? what about the others? is anybody safe anymore? can the senseless loss of young lives mobilize an entire country to say enough is enough? but first, showdown. president obama ready to rumble,

telling congress, bring it on. >> everything there is to say about health care has been said and just about everybody has said it. >> larry: next on "larry king live." good evening. a program note. we're in washington tomorrow night. and charlie rangel is our guest. it will be his first interview since stepping down today as chairman of the house ways and means committee amid controversy. he has taken a leave of absence. now tonight, after a year of increasingly bitter political debate, president obama is pushing for an up or down vote on his nearly $1 trillion health care proposal. here's what he said about it today. >> the american people want to know if it's still possible for washington to look out for their interests and their future. they are waiting for us to act, they're waiting for us to lead,

and as long as i hold this office, i intend to provide that leadership. i do not know how this plays politically, but i know it's right. and so i ask congress to finish its work, and i look forward to signing this reform into law. >> larry: joining us in washington, congresswoman michelle bachmann, republican of minnesota. she's championing what's billed as the health care declaration of independence. and congressman alan grayson. last fall he said the plan is don't get sick, but if you do, die quickly. congresswoman bachmann, what's wrong, since it's happened so many other times, with an up or down vote? >> it's a good thing, larry. it's just how many votes will it take? 60 or 50 votes? >> larry: what's wrong with majority rules? >> well, because that's not how the senate works. the senate works with 60 votes.

and now what the president is promoting is a nuclear option, which is 50 votes. so we should have an up or down vote. >> larry: but it used -- it used that majority rules on the bush tax cuts, was 51 votes. >> well, the house uses straight majority rule, the senate doesn't. what this would mean, larry, is the senate has to break their own rules in order to pass the bill. >> larry: and that's wrong? >> oh, i think so, sure. >> larry: and congressman grayson, why do you think they should break this rule, which they have done a few times in the past. >> my esteemed colleague from minnesota is entirely wrong. there's nothing in the rules that prevents reconciliation. it's been used 22 times overall and 14 times by republicans. if it's good enough for tax cuts for the rich twice until bush, it's good enough to provide health care for all americans. >> larry: let's get into some specifics. congresswoman bachmann, if you agree there's a problem with

insurance in the united states and 38 million uninsured, what's wrong with the president's plan? >> the problem is number one, it's a job killer number two, it's the government takeover of 18% of the economy and massive tax increases, plus it will cut $500 billion from medicare for vulnerable seniors. so there's not a lot of up side, especially in the perilous situation we're in. "time" magazine said today that the president's spending is laying the groundwork to double taxes in ten years. that's before this health care bill passes. so we're looking at massive increases in taxes going forward with all this spending. that makes a lot of americans very nervous. >> larry: alan, why do you favor it? >> again, that's simply not the case. look, we spend 17% of our income on health care. no one else in the entire world spends more than 11% of their income. yet we're 50th in life expectancy in the world. the japanese live five years longer than we do.

and we're 46th in infant mortality below cuba. how can we spend so much money and get so little? the system is broken and it needs to be reformed. that's what this bill does. it keeps americans alive. >> larry: congresswoman bachmann, what's your solution in a nutshell, agreeing that there's a problem? >> i agree there's a problem. we should let americans buy any health insurance policy that they want in the united states, purchase it with their own tax-free money and then fully deduct the rest of the expenses. that's what they're facing right now. the high cost of health care. unfortunately president obama's bill won't bring down the costs for average americans or really for very few americans, if anyway. >> larry: would that idea, congressman grayson, allow for most of the 38 million to have insurance? >> according to the congressional budget office, the democrats' plan will provide insurance to over 80% of the people who don't have it. that's what we need more than anything right now in this country. there's 122 people dying every single day in this country

because they have no health care. according to a harvard study, if you take two people who are absolutely physically identical. same race, same age, same gender, same smoking experience and same weight. two people who are identical except one has health care and the other one doesn't, then the one without health care is 40% more likely to die each year. that's what we have to -- and we have to make health care not only universal, but affordable and accessible. too many people find they get all the health care they need until they need it. >> larry: michele, why can't you come together on this? >> i believe we can, but a big question that needs to be addressed right now is what in the world is going on in the white house? because today the president offered a judgeship to a brother of a member of congress. tonight the president has that same member of congress at the white house pressuring him to change his vote on health care. we need to have an independent investigation into this matter, because we've seen the cornhusker kickback, the

louisiana purchase, the union loop hole, and now the big question is, is the white house trading health care votes for judgeships? this is a pretty serious issue, larry. >> larry: do you want to respond to that, alan? >> my esteemed colleague from minnesota has just deployed another weapon of mass distraction that republicans use from time to time to try to change the subject away from health care. >> corruption isn't a distraction, corruption is an issue. we need to know if this is corrupt. >> we need affordable health care in this country that's accessible to people and that covers everyone. that's the issue. if you want to go off on a tangent, you're doing a disservice to the american people. >> corruption isn't a tangent. this is a very real issue. we need an independent investigation. this is pretty serious. if you offer a judgeship to a brother of a member of congress in the same night you have that member at the white house where the president's twisting his arm to ask that member of congress to switch his vote on health

care? this is very serious. we have to have an independent investigation. >> what we need is health care for americans. >> larry: are we going to have a health care bill? >> yes, we're going to have a health care bill. the speaker has been very consistent about this now for weeks and months. it's going to happen. it's going to happen, because that's what america needs and that's what america deserves. >> larry: and in the weeks ahead, we'll do a lot on this subject and have both of you back. thank you very much. >> thank you, larry. >> thanks. >> larry: the senseless death of a teenager allegedly at the hands of a convicted sex offender.

>> larry: the man accused in the death of chelsea king appeared in court today. john gardner iii, a convicted sex offender. his dna was found on chelsea's clothing. with us is tracy barker ball, the king family spokesperson. she's the peer counseling

supervisor for poway high school north of san diego, and she knew chelsea. how's the family doing, tracy? >> you know, i've just been amazed at their strength. every time i talk to them, they want to know how everybody else is doing, how the students are doing. obviously very hard for them. >> larry: how are the students at poway -- that's a well known high school -- doing. >> actually, it's pronounced poway. >> larry: poway, right. >> they're on an emotional roller coaster, they're angry, they're sad, they're scared. the world the way they know it has changed. security's been taken away from them. but they're trooper. they've been such a wonderful community coming together doing so much for chelsea and for the family. >> larry: most of our viewers, 99 and a half point ten percent of them. tell us a little about her. >> chelsea is one of those girls

that when she walks in the room, you just feel like this ray of sunshine. she's quirky, she makes kids laugh. if there's an awkward moment, she had this little ostrich dance she would do. i know that they've said she's a straight-a student, but it wasn't just straight as. she was an a.p. student with four a.p. classes. got as in all of those. she did community service, in the symphony, peer counseling, athlete, used to play volleyball, she was cross country. she did it all. she's missed. >> larry: i'm sure. thank you, traci. traci barker-ball. reporter and anchor for xe-tv. he covered today's court proceedings in the chelsea king rape murder case. and in new york jane velez-mitchell, host of "issues with jane velez-mitchell" seen on hln. what specifically was he charged with today, alex? >> he was charged with murder

with a special circumstance of rape that would intensify. he was also charged with intent to assault another girl which happened on december 27th. that was somebody who was able to get away. we heard from her that she actually elbowed him in the nose and she was able to get away from him, but it was very close to the area where this incident happened with chelsea. >> larry: is this possible death penalty if convicted? >> well, the district attorney wouldn't confirm that. they said that they will make that determination later on whether they're going to pursue that, but it is possible with the special circumstances that they will pursue the death penalty in this case. >> larry: and he pled not guilty. >> he pled not guilty. we didn't hear much from him in the courtroom today, but we did see chelsea's parents in the courtroom today. very emotional. they tried to stay strong. most of chelsea's family, about 15 family members held hands during the proceedings. they were wearing orange and blue ribbons, which they say is chelsea's favorite color.

and they looked straight ahead. looked towards mr. gardner. it was a look kind of of rage and despair at the same time. and many of them had tears in their eyes just with the visual of him. >> larry: did he have his own lawyer or court appointed? >> he had a court appointed lawyer, public defender. that's what 90% of criminals here in san diego end up going with. >> larry: jane velez-mitchell, what's your reaction to this story? >> this is an out rage. this is a totally preventable death. it didn't have to happen. i'm calling it junk justice. here's a sentencing report from 2000. this guy molested a 13-year-old girl and pummeled her in the face in 2000. and in the sentencing report it said he showed not a scintilla of remorse. he's extremely predatory and a psychiatrist basically warned he will do it again. and, of course, cops say he did

it again. he could have been sentenced to 30 years if he'd been prosecuted to the full extent of the law. instead he served five years in prison. and then he got out. on top of that, you heard that there was another jogger who was allegedly attacked by this very same man just in december. december 27th. okay? she got away by hitting him in the nose. was there any sign posted in that park that there was a predator looking for a female jogger? no. if there had been signs posted that day, chelsea wouldn't have gone jogging. if this guy would have been in prison, she could have gone jogging without being afraid. the fact is that we've got a broken justice system. this is junk justice. the number of mistakes made along the way is so extraordinary that i'm actually saying we need a movement like a nonpolitical tea party movement so that it doesn't matter, republican, democrat, left, right, people who care about protecting their children and

their loved ones need to come together and say, we've got to fix this criminal justice system because this is happening all over america every single day. >> and larry -- >> larry: hold it, elex. jane also part of the justice system presumption of innocence? >> well, yeah. he's going to go to trial. he's pleaded not guilty. but they really had him back in 2000. he admitted that he did these things. okay? he pled guilty. they could have easily prosecuted him and locked him away for 30 years. and they didn't do that. and that's why we had a predator roaming the streets. >> larry: well said. elex, you wanted to add something? >> just what jane was talking about is what people are talking about on the streets. we talked to thousands who made that very point. some people saying they should be cast rated, sex offenders. others saying they should be micro clipped. protesters out in front of the courthouse today. a real sense of anger, not just despair and sadness, but a sense

of anger that this didn't need to happen. how does our society allow this to happen? >> larry: both of you, very well said. we'll be doing a lot more on that. thank you. >> thank you. >> larry: why are convicted sex offenders allowed out of prison? is there any way to keep them behind bars? the one time of year red lobster creates so many irresistible ways to treat yourself to lobster. like our new wood-grilled lobster and shrimp with parmesan scampi... our succulent lobster lover's dream, with both sweet maine and buttery rock lobster tails... and eleven more choices, each served with a salad and our freshly-baked cheddar bay biscuits. come celebrate lobsterfest. right now at red lobster. it doesn't take much;

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every morning she would say good-bye, mom and dad, have a great day. when she got home, she would always ask us, how was your day? we'd sit down and talk about -- she's just -- she couldn't wait for the next day. >> larry: how sad. in san diego, san diego's dr. mark kalisch, psychiatrist, diplomat. in san francisco, our friend marc klaas. klaas kids foundation. his 12-year-old daughter polly abducted and murdered in 1993. dr. kalisch, you are a colleague of dr. matthew carroll, the court-appointed psychiatrist who interviewed john albert gardner with a sentencing recommendation on his 2000 molestation of a 13-year-old girl. was his assessment -- what was

that assessment and did you agree with it? >> well, larry, i've been doing this work for 30 years, and i have rarely seen a report that was more clear and more unambiguous than the report that dr. carroll did. it was well thought out. well reasoned. he threw up as big a red flag as any psychiatrist possibly could. he was deliberate in his thinking and his analysis and pointed out that this is a man who had no remorse for what he did. he took no responsibility for what he did. and he didn't admit what he did. and doctor -- >> larry: so why did he only serve five years? >> apparently there was a plea agreement that dr. carroll's warning wasn't heeded, and he wasn't charged and prosecuted as fully as he could have been.

>> larry: marc klaas, why does this go on? >> first of all, i think that we have to listen to the experts. as dr. kalish said, he's been in business 30 years doing these kinds of assessments. we've taken it to another level. you know, larry, in 2006, californians passed jessica's law. among other things, jessica's law mandates that any person -- any violent predator being considered for release first must have an expert evaluation by two psychiatrists or psychologists. if that expert panel feels that the prisoner is a sexual predator with a high expectation of reoffense, it has to be sent to the district attorney so she could start civil commitment proceedings. civil commitment simply means they can maintain a dangerous person behind bars after the day of release. currently in california, the sex offender commitment program

managers are -- they've set that aside. instead of using that expert panel, what they're doing is allowing one health care professional to do a paper screening or record evaluation without any kind of an in-person interview at all. >> larry: why, dr. -- all right. i got it. >> this has put 17,000 of these sexual predators back on the streets. >> larry: why, dr. kalish, are you not listened to? >> well, i don't know the answer to that, but in this case there were a couple places where they missed the ball. they missed the ball during the initial assessment where dr. carroll put out his very, very strong warning. and then after he had served his time, the district attorney did have an opportunity to start the civil commitment proceedings as dr. carroll kind of warned them about. and for whatever reason, they didn't take up that burden.

>> larry: as we said earlier, time is limited when we have so many guests. but both these gentlemen are always outstanding figures. it is always a pleasure to have marc klaas and dr. kalish with us. the man arrested may be linked to the disappearance of amber did you boy. for the worst allergies, i want a product with the best decongestant. my choice is clear: claritin-d. (announcer) nothing works stronger, faster, or longer to relieve your worst allergy symptoms, including congestion, without drowsiness.

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look for the healing seal. gold bond medicated lotion. stop itching. start healing. >> larry: carrie is with us, the mother of amber dubois who went missing from the same area that chelsea was. the cases may be related, by the way. amber's grandmother has written a heart-wrenching article on our blog. you've got the read it. go to cnn.com/larryking. a year? >> just over a year, yes. >> larry: what happened that day? >> she was walking to school, had a check in the back pocket for her lamb. she was with the ffa. she had valentine's presents in her backpack. very ek sited about that day. and she never made it to school. she was last seen by two parents, supposedly, and vanished. >> larry: what kind of area is it? >> it's a suburban -- it's a nice area.

>> larry: there are other things on the block. the school isn't in a remote area. >> no. it's very populated. 2,000 children go to school there. lots of traffic. >> larry: would she have gone over to a stranger in a car? >> absolutely not. we knew better. we had talked about it the week before, because there were some attempted abductions in poway. >> larry: what do authorities guess? >> at first runaway, but after that, she's just endangered, missing, because they've gone through 1600 tips. >> larry: no chance runaway or boyfriend you didn't know about? this is what you're hoping for now, right? a boyfriend you didn't know about that she ran away with. >> absolutely, but i know my daughter. >> larry: how are you affected by the occurrence we learned about now with chelsea king? >> mixed feelings. i went down and helped with the search for chelsea, met the parents and gave my support to them. but it disgusts me that this guy was out on the street and it scares me that he might have done something with my daughter. >> larry: since it is the same

area. >> a few miles away we lived. >> larry: do you have any optimism? >> i have hope that she's still alive. i have hope that she is somewhere, that it's another jaycee story or shawn hornbeck. >> larry: how do you sleep? >> not very much. >> larry: you're separated from your husband? right? >> i am. >> larry: how is he taking it? >> we have our -- we both -- we complement each other. when i'm having a good day, he's having a bad day. it's brought us closer. >> larry: do the authorities have any leads? >> no, they've been through 1600 and are back at square one. >> larry: this suspect -- and he has to be called a suspect in this system -- do you think he might give you some hope, at least tell you something. you want information. closure. >> i want closure, yeah, but i don't think he's going to talk, even if he had something to do with it. the police haven't found anything as of today that links him to amber, but the possibility is great. >> larry: so what keeps you

going is hope? >> that's the only thing that keeps me going, hope and faith. >> larry: what high school did amber go to? >> escondido. >> larry: is that near poway? >> 7 1/2 miles. >> larry: the schools are rivals? >> yeah. >> larry: it's a beautiful area, a little north of san diego? >> yeah. >> larry: very middle income -- >> yeah, nice neighborhood. in talking with chelsea's aunts, the girls were a lot alike. they're both nature girls and stuff like that. >> larry: good luck, carrie. >> thank you very much. >> larry: a woman who was kidnapped and raped by the man accused of taking jaycee dugard is here. she was shocked to learn that he got out of prison after serving 11 years. he was sentenced to 50. we love getting our outback dirty. because it seems like the dirtier it gets, the more it shines.

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phillip garrido. katherine calloway hall. she was kidnapped and raped by phillip garrido. you know that name. garrido was sentenced to 50 years to life for his crimes against katie, parole after serving just 11 years. he now stands accused of kidnapping jaycee dugard in 1991 and holding her in sexual

captivity for over 18 years. when you hear about the chelsea kings and the ambers, does it bring back memories? >> it brings back terrible memories. it makes me realize how lucky i was. my heart goes out to the kings and, of course, to carrie and her husband -- i'm sorry, amber's father. i hope they get some closure. i hope they find her, even if it's in a situation like jaycee. >> larry: the guy who grabbed you, and you were lucky to get away, you were taken into a building, right? >> in a mini-warehouse, yeah, out by the airport in reno, yeah. >> larry: how did you get out? >> i was rescued by a policeman who wasn't looking for me. i was very lucky. when he banged on the door and garrido went out to find out who it was and came back and said, it's the heat. he wants to see a receipt. do i have to tie you up? are you going to be good?

i said, no, i've been good, i've been good. don't tie me up. when he went back with the receipt, i went right after him. >> larry: smart move. >> yeah. >> larry: do you think he would have killed you or tried to hold you? >> i think he was planning on keeping me for a while, yeah. i mean he talked about it. he talked about how he was going to take me home to meet his wife, that she would like me, you know. >> larry: what's your reaction, first, that he got out? >> well, you know, i was shocked when he walked up to my roulette wheel in caesars and stood in front of me. i thought he was in prison for a long time to come. >> larry: you were working at caesars. >> i was working at caesars as a. and there he was standing in front of me. >> larry: you were scared? >> i left town. i moved. >> larry: what do you think should be done to sex offenders? >> you know, larry, the rate of recidivism is so high with this

type of predator that i don't think they should be let out. i don't think there should be any chance two or chance three. how many more young women and children do we risk? >> larry: your thought is they're not curable. >> no, they're not hablatable, if that's a word. >> larry: what about registries? do you think they help protect people? >> they're only as accurate, you know, as the use they're being put to. they tend to give people a false sense of security in a lot of situations. in a lot of cases. >> larry: do you feel safe? do you always look over your -- how do you feel? it's been 34 years. >> yeah. now my boogeyman is going to be put away forever. but you still have to use some common sense. i still am always aware of my circumstances, but until this happened with garrido, i always had to look over my shoulder. >> larry: you don't have any role in the prosecution now, do you, or do you? >> my role is self-appointed. i've decided i'm going to go to every trial and just be present

and watch and listen. i was, in fact, at his last hearing on friday. they've told me that i might be called to testify if it goes to trial. >> larry: because they can't bring up any prior convictions of his. >> no, but there's a new law -- >> larry: i don't know how a jury wouldn't know it, though? >> but there's a new law that allows past victims to testify in california. so i may be brought in. >> larry: and you would happily do that? >> absolutely. >> larry: this is hard to say, there's probably a tiny bit of hope for amber, right? >> there's always hope. you have to hope. look at terry probyn. that poor woman. she had to live with hope for 18 years and it came through. >> larry: yeah, her daughter was alive. >> yeah, yeah. >> larry: so the hope is she is being held. >> the hope is she is being held. that's sad. >> larry: that's weird that's what you're hoping for. >> it's weird to think of it that way, but you have to hold on to some hope. >> larry: katie will stay with us. we have an outstanding panel coming. information is one important

tool in protecting the public. the fbi's crimes against children unit maintains a national sex offender registry with state-by-state data. should there be tougher laws? we're going to try to answer that, next.

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katherine katie callaway hall remains with us. we're joined by our friend marking a oes, the noted defense attorney who is trying a case in cincinnati. that's where he comes to us from, that ohio city. here in los angeles, robin sachs, activist, former prosecutor, author of "it happens every day." and in washington, our friend judge greg mathis, presiding over the tv court show "judge mathis." mark geragos, this is going to be difficult to have presumed innocence here, isn't it? what are your thoughts generally on this whole matter of the sex offender getting out? >> well, there's -- you know, part of the problem in defending these cases, actually, and prosecuting these cases is one in the same. that is, how do you distinguish who is really a sex offender and who you may actually have a problem with in terms of

recidivism versus somebody who the net has been kind of cast too wide. in a case like this, the presumption, once you hear that somebody is a sex offender, it's extremely hard to unring that bell. and i think that there is a presumption of guilt in a case like this, unfortunately. >> larry: isn't that true, robin? this guy, can he get a fair trial? >> he can get a fair trial. but did the victims get >> larry: i know. we have a system, though, with the presumption of innocence. a fair chance at surviving? do you think anyone in the world is presuming him innocent tonight? >> right now the people watching television are probably just as outraged as i am, but the people sworn to that jury will be taking an oath to listen to the evidence fairly, and that's the jury system that we have in place and i have to trust that it's going to work. >> larry: what are your thoughts on what to do with predators? >> i think the biggest problems is we have is clumping all predators together.

>> larry: so as marc said, some are maybe not recidivists, maybe? or we don't know? >> i think perhaps when we look at the registry and define who is on the registry as a predator, we start getting into trouble. the problem is the sex offender registry, which is designed to alert people -- >> larry: of who's in my neighborhood, right? >> who is in your neighborhood. it has now encompassed people who may not be the people you're worried about in your neighborhood. >> which is exactly the problem. i mean, you've got a sex registry -- >> larry: in other words, if you urinated in public, you might be listed as a sexual predator? >> right. somebody who is 19 years old who has sex with a 17-year-old. >> i think we need to enhance the notification. i think that we need to have mass mailings going to perhaps a one-mile radius of a neighborhood, just like you send the tax bill, send a notice. the sex registry, people have to take it upon themselves to look,

how many people take their day out and get on a xwurt to look at a sex registry. >> larry: katie -- i got you. katie, you were nodding your head? >> i think it's an absolutely great idea. i think there should be notification directly to people's homes. >> larry: what if someone is falsely accused by a 17-year-old girl, labeled for life as a predator? >> the more important issue is notification and monitoring these people. the idea of citizens having a duty upon themselves to go have to look at the registry, then to decide which crime, which means and which person, what happened where? that's not the way it should be. law enforcement should be watching the most serious of the serious. >> larry: to your knowledge, judge mathis, is a sexual predator, like this gentleman who has been charged, are they ever curable? >> i've read studies. there are studies that suggest that there are psychiatric illnesses in some and some are environmental. so i think that some instances there is rehabilitation

available, but in many instances, it's incurable. in such instance, i think we should look into what california and florida allows, and that's chemical castration, particularly after a second offense. or conviction. >> larry: you both are nodding your head? >> absolutely. >> larry: you too? >> absolutely. i don't think that's going to change the sex offender offending because i think they'll use their finger, they'll use their tongue, they'll find some other object. >> it reduces the desire. it reduces the desire. it reduces the sexual desire. >> larry: mark, what did you think of that idea? >> well, i've known people who have actually done it. as robin just said. i saw one of the guys who had chemically cast rated himself in a bid to kind of win leniency. then when he was back in court a couple of years later precisely because he had used his tongue. there are certain cases where you just can't deal with it. and the system isn't equipped to deal with it. but the fundamental problem is

we cast way too wide of a net on this. if they focused on the worst offenders, the offenders you should be worried about, i think you'd have a much better system than what we have now, which is basically a laundry list of crimes that gets put on to the registry. >> larry: let me take a break and we'll be right back. [ children laughing ] suitcase? huh? ♪ where do gummy bears hide? under the seat. look! yeah! ♪ [ telephone rings ] [ male announcer ] the all new chevy equinox. [ man ] guess who? dad! [ man ] enjoy the trip! okay, daddy! [ laughter ] [ male announcer ] a consumers digest best buy. with a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. it takes you farther... and brings you closer. host: could switching to geico really save you

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>> larry: we'll be right back with our panel. a reminder, charlie rangel tomorrow night. first interview since taking leave of absence as chairman of house ways and means. let's check in with our chairman of house ways and means here at cnn, anderson cooper. he hosts "ac 360" at the top of the hour. what's up tonight? >> tonight on the program, the raw politics of a president pulling out all the stops. did the democrats actually have the votes? david gergen, bill bennett and donna brazile weigh in. how is it that one of the most powerful democrats on capitol hill, who larry was just talking about, temporarily resigned after accusations of an ethics violation, and believe me there are plenty of other accusations still pending, so if the democrats on capitol hill care about accountability, how come it took this long for charles rangel to step aside? we're keeping them honest tonight.

a tsunami scare caught on camera. the details on rescue efforts. those stories and more on "360," larry. >> larry: thanks a lot, anderson cooper. 10:00 eastern, 7:00 pacific. our panel is assembled. let's get a call in. fairfield, massachusetts. hello. >> caller: hi, larry. my question is, why in the world, when a justice system knows time and time again that child pedophiles and rapists, they can't be -- they can't get well, they're just really bad my suggestion is to put these people to death. >> larry: you favor the death penalty, robin? >> you know, i've actually changed my tune on the death penalty a bit, i've got to tell you. >> larry: a case like ms. king? >> well, in a case like this case, it does feel like that would be the only sort of

justice that could -- that could balance out the amount of pain that this family is going through. >> larry: what do you think, katie? >> you're talking to a victim. i absolutely am for the death penalty. or life inprisonment. one and you're done. >> larry: judge mathis, what about you? >> i'm against the death penalty generally because of the bias and the unfairness inherent in it. i'm in favor of life imprisonment. three strikes law, many instances, there's a theft as the third strike and you go to prison for life. here we have in many instances child predators and receiving less time than a drug dealer on the corner. >> larry: mark, what are your thoughts on this? >> well, you already have a -- basically a one-strike law in california where you can face life in a crime -- actually, in fact, the prior crime, the prior conviction. in a case like, this the death penalty is not going to do you any good because it is just going to tie the system up

forever. life without parole, which is an option i think is much more horrible and a much cleaner way to punish if the person is, in fact, guilty. and i don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to tie it up -- none other than the chief justice of the state of california has called the death penalty system dysfunctional and it clearly is. >> larry: all right. >> i agree. >> and mark is absolutely correct. there is a one-strike rule here in california. the problem isn't with the rules and the laws. the laws actually are pretty darn good here in california for victims. it's a matter for prosecutors and judges to know how to use them and use them effectively. the one strike could have been a fact in 2000. this guy should have been in prison for life then. >> larry: mark, have you defended anybody accused of being a predator? >> i have. i have. >> larry: have some actually been predators? >> i won't talk about my individual clients but i will talk based on -- >> larry: leads to the question what have we learned about

predators? >> there are predators, there's no doubt about that. there are people who cannot be cured and i don't even like that term. there are people who should be -- another term is warehoused and that's basically what you have to do in certain cases when they fit a certain mold and you have a situation like this. >> larry: is it -- >> something else though. part of the problem is understand that prosecutors make deals sometimes because their case may be weak or their evidence may be weak. the person -- the parents of the child may not want that person to go through a testimony or testifying. so sometimes there are problems in proof and when that happens, rather than go forward and potentially lose the case, prosecutors make deals. >> why don't we have mandatory sentencing? we should have mandatory sentencing. >> we do have mandatory sentencing in a lot of cases. >> well -- well -- >> the fact remains that if you've got problems with proof, you can't man da torely sentence

somebody if you don't win the case. >> the judges have discretion in california when it comes to child predator cases. and as i'm saying, as they do with drug dealer, you have mandatory sentences for drug dealer. little kid on the corner, one eight-ball of crack, he gets five years. so we should have mandatory sentencing for the first. i'm george duran and i'm on the hunt's crash kitchen tour. today we're cooking, the men are washing. nice! ah! these tomatoes, they're bye bye. hunt's flash steams their tomatoes and that keeps in that backyard garden fresh taste. guys, dishes. isn't it time to take a fresh look at your tomatoes? 

>> mr. gardner wishes to enter a

plea of not guilty to both counts and deny the allegations that are attached thereto. >> larry: can a person like mr. gardner, in your opinion, robin, be helped? >> mr. gardner cannot be helped. the only thing that we can do is help victims and help everybody that we don't know about that he's assaulted. >> larry: katie, do you think he can be helped? >> no, i don't think he can be helped and i think he should be put away or get the death penalty, absolutely. i think there needs to be an effort for victims of this man that have not come forward and victims of garrido come forward. >> larry: there have to be other victims? >> i actually have been in contact with other victims who have not reported it, with garrido. i'm hoping to get them to come forward. >> larry: he didn't take them prisoner? >> yeah, but they didn't report it and they wish they had. >> larry: judge mathis, you think he can be helped? >> i think we need a psychological -- a psychiatric analysis because i don't know

whether it's incurable or whether it's environmental. could be power and control which is what many rapists operate off of. not sure. >> larry: mark, you have a thought? >> well, until they are convicted, i generally like to reserve judgment. >> larry: he was convicted of a prior instance. >> i understand that. >> larry: in that matter, can he be helped? >> in that matter, somebody made the determination, what was it, a six-year sentence i believe is what the appropriate sentence was at the time. i've got to believe that there was some kind of a problem with that case at that point. >> larry: do we have an answer, robin? >> i think that that's an example of a weak prosecutor who hides under the auspice of we are going to protect the victim and we're not going to make the victim go through it when, in fact, i think very often victims feel empowered, find the experience much more cathartic than you would imagine and can find closure and understanding when you have people believe them. >> larry: we thank our panel,

katie calloway hall. continue. good spirits. >> thank you. >> larry: mark geragos, the noted defense attorney. robin sachs, the legal commentator, victims advocate. and judge greg mathis, hosts his own very popular tv show. we have a sad announcement about a member of our "larry king live" family. the brother of our senior supervising producer, carrie stevenson, passed away saturday. carrie was very proud of her big brother, sergeant craig w. stevenson. there you see him. he was just 44 years old. a decorated 19-year veteran of the lima, ohio, police department. he also proudly served as an officer in the united states army reserve. he served in desert shield and the desert storm campaigns. he is survived by his two children, 9-year-old connor and 7-year-old sydney. his parents, karen and buzz stevenson and sister, carrie. craig leaves behind an important