i heard earlier that it was an animal with mange. i was laughing then i heard that and then i just felt bad for laughing about it. >> yeah. >> pretty bad. >> anyway, hope it's doing all right. that's that's it for "360." thanks for watching. see you monday. crippling and even caring those for them. >> who is killing your friend. >> my chimpanzee. >> they adore their snake, lizards big cats and chimps. fatal animal attractions revealed. but first, jaycee dugard seen and heard on tape.

for the first time publicly after 18 years of captivity in her alleged abductor's backyard. we'll show you how she looks and sounds. we have reactions from ed smart and a woman who was abused by the man charged with kidnapping jaycee. next on "larry king live." >> thanks for joining us, i'm jeff probst sitting in for larry king. jaycee dugard kidnapped 18 years -- jaycee dugard kidnapped at age 11. returned to her family after 18 years of captivity. she has a message to the millions of people who have fallen her dramatic story. "i'm doing well," she says. "it's been a long haul but i'm getting there." jaycee makes this positively astounding statement. there are recently shot home

videos exclusively acquired by abc. they showed jaycee briefly talking to the camera. she was riding a horse and also doing some holiday baking. that is 29-year-old jaycee on the left. and a gray pullover on the middle. her mother on the right, in the middle her half-sister. also on home video, jaycee speaks to the public. >> hi, i'm jaycee. >> we want to talk about these new images of jaycee, what they may reveal about how she's adjusting and about her mother's plea for privacy for her family. joining us from las vegas, a brave woman named katie calloway hall. she was kidnapped and raped by phillip garrido in 1976. he was sentenced to 50 years, paroled after just 11. garrido is the man charged with abducting and assaulting jaycee. and joining us from salt lake city, ed smart. his daughter, elizabeth, was taken from her bedroom in june of 2002, at age 14. she was found nine months later. the man accused of her

kidnapping and rape was recently ruled competent to stand trial. katie, having gone through something like this yourself, what do you make of seeing these home videos from jaycee? >> i think that jaycee looks remarkably well. i think that they're making excellent progress in this process of healing, and that's only going to happen with time. it is a process. and it's going to take time. and that's what they're asking for. they're just asking for time to be left alone and to get on with their healing. >> ed, you went through something very similar in dealing with the media. watching this home video that the family released themselves, what's your take on it? >> you know, i think that jaycee is doing great. i'm so happy for her, and i couldn't agree more with her mother. keeping her out of the public's eye and being able to basically re-engage with life, i think she

looks like she's doing great. you know, elizabeth loved horses and had a wonderful time with them, so i think that jaycee looks like she's doing very, very well. >> you know, ed, in this video, they're clearly showing normal activities, normal family activities, embracing, laughing, having fun, baking cookies. does this ring true to you in terms of what went on with your family when you guys were reunited? >> absolutely. i remember that night very clearly when elizabeth came home, and i've said before how she said, i want to go back, and i'm going to be there in the morning when she wanted to go sleep in her bed rather than sleep in our room. and it's amazing how resilient people are, and i'm just so happy for jaycee and for her family. i just think, you know, what a

wonderful reunion, what a wonderful way to be able to move forward with your life. you know, being with people that absolutely love you and care about you. >> katie, it's tough to get inside anyone's head and you're not a psychologist, but do you think there's a chance that any part of this message is also a little bit of defiance to say to the public and to the man who is accused of doing this, you know what? in spite of everything i'm going through, i'm doing all right, and i want you to know that, that i'm doing okay. >> i think it is, and i think it's jaycee's way of letting him know. he wants to use the lawyers to communicate and maybe she's just going to use the media in her own little way. i think she has tremendous strength of character, and i think we should attribute that to the way her mother terry raised her for the first 11 years. i think that's probably the only way she survived this whole ordeal. my ordeal was just a blip on the radar compared to what elizabeth went through and jaycee, but it did affect me my whole life. i just think jaycee is doing

really well now. >> you know, it's worth noting that in only six months, being home only six months, jaycee has already gotten her driver's license, she has birth certificates for her two daughters which she bore while in captivity, she's working on finishing her high school g.e.d. in spite of all the good, is there any down side, ed, to this kind of releasing of a video that they're doing, and releasing photos to people and things like that? >> i think there really is, and i think they have done a wonderful job in helping her. to me, what this says is, you know, my life has had this horrible event. i know this is how elizabeth felt, but my life is not going to be dominated and defined by it. i just think that what they're doing is exactly what should be done. i just applaud the family.

>> katie and ed, thank you guys both for joining us. thank you for your insight and sharing your thoughts with us. we will talk to you again soon, i'm sure. all right. we are now changing subjects in a big way. we're going to talk about people who love their exotic pets maybe a little too much. fatal animal attractions. that is next on "larry king live." ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] all we ask is that you keep doing what you've always done. the lexus rx. never has a vehicle been designed to feel so natural. ♪

it's estimated there are more tigers in the united states than there are left in the wild. what dangerous mix of obsession, desire and delusion causes these people to live with animals that have the potential to kill. >> welcome back to "larry king live." i'm jeff probst sitting in for larry tonight. exotic pet ownership isn't as rare as you might think. we're going to take a look at how and why people acquire these unbelievable creatures. is it good for the animal?

is it safe for the owner? all this in anticipation of animal planet's "fatal attraction" series which premiers sunday, march 14. joining us to talk about it is julie burrowes. she was the owner of a black leopard until she was brutally attacked by the cat. dave is animal planet's large predator expert. josephine artell is an animal expert of global animal sanctuaries. let's start by taking a look at what happened to julie on what started out as an ordinary february afternoon. >> it was february 9th of 2004. i did everything i've always done normally. i fed him earlier that morning. later on that day, i went to

spend time with him, and as soon as i closed the gate behind me, he leaped up, and that's when it all started. >> all right. julie, before we get to what happened on that day, take us back to the beginning. why a leopard? where was the idea that this would be a good pet to own? >> well, it's not a good idea, but it's something i've always wanted since i was a girl, a small girl. and it took me forever to learn that i can acquire one of these animals. >> how do you acquire one? >> actually, i found him in an exotic magazine that has breeders of different exotic animals. >> what did it cost? >> he was $1,800. >> seems cheap. >> pretty cheap for that kind of cat. >> so how does the cat arrive? you call up somebody and order it? >> no, actually, i had to go pick him up. i had to drive a few hours to go get him. >> at any point were you worried -- you're picking up a wildcat, a wild animal.

did you put it in the back of your car? >> he was a cub when i bought him. he was like 9 1/2 weeks old. i let him ride in the car. >> and this attack that happened was severe and brutal. he attacked the back of your head, right? >> yes. >> what happened on that day? >> just a normal routine. i went into his cage and went to spend time with him. usually i test his mood to see what kind of vibes he was throwing off and to see if i could actually go, spend time with him. i knew the difference that if he didn't want to be bothered, i wouldn't bother him. but he licked my hand so i went in, and as soon as i did, he leaped up and i immediately protected my arm. >> while you're telling this story, we have some photos we're going to throw up here. i want to warn you they're graphic photos, so prepare yourself. you can take a look at these photos, julie, and tell us what was happening. that is the back of your head. >> yeah. he actually -- when he jumped up, his tooth caught on my ear

on the way down from his leap, and he went back again. it was like he was roughhousing me. his body language just didn't seem like he was trying to kill me. like he wanted to rough-house. >> david, how much stronger are leopards than humans? >> when you consider a lep around in the wild, they're going to take something five times their own weight up a tree. a thousand-pound animal is something that can kill. they're designed to kill, so you can't really match human strength. even the biggest human's not going to matchup. >> no comparison. >> no comparison. >> not even close. >> josephine, you're listening in on this. what do you make of this, because i think a lot of people watching would say this is probably not the normal behavior that somebody wants to own a leopard. i'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, julie. what's your take? >> well, surprisingly, it's estimated there are about 20,000 big cats kept in captivity across the united states and these are private ownership,

they're not at accredited zoos, they're not at legitimate sanctuaries. they're literally in people's back yards. >> david, is with what happened to julie, is that inevitable? is that what happens when they can't be predators? >> predators are always predators. that's the one thing that people forget. i meet a lot of these types of people, and the thought of, it's not going too happen to me. i think most people who take on these big predators, they know that they'll kill, but they just think, oh that won't be me. i'll raise him from a baby. i'll love it so much it could never do that to me. >> we're going to get into the psychology of this a little later in the show. up next, chimpanzees may look cute but they can maim and even kill. our next guest has two of them. as you can see for yourself in this live picture, she is not worried one bit. stay with us. we'll be bac .

look at you. give me kisses. more kisses. and a big hug. that's my big -- look at us. welcome back to "larry king live." we're talking about exotic pets and the people who own them and a follow-up to the story we just did of julie and the leopard. that leopard was shot and killed on the day of the attack. that's the footnote to that.

jeanne risotto joins us. she owns two chimpanzees. they are related to travis. you might remember the 200-pound chimp that tore the face of charla nash who also lost her hands in the attack. jeanne, welcome. we see you in the cage with the chimps. what is the appeal? why does this make sense to you to own these wild animals and live with them? >> well, it doesn't make sense anymore, but it did when i first got them. >> how long have you had them? >> eight years. it will be eight years april. >> eight years, and the initial idea was what? they were cute and they were small? >> you know, it's like anything. i was in a good position financially, and i could afford to get them, and i got -- paid 50,000 for connor, and a couple

years later i paid 35,000 for cramer and just went from there. >> so you have $100,000 nearly invested in these two chimps, and that enclosure had to cost a fair amount of money. how much money is it to keep them? >> i would say i spend probably $15,000 a year feeding them. my outdoor enclosure cost me $100,000, my indoor enclosure cost me probably about $50,000. >> we are looking at these chimps now live, and it is fascinating, i have to say. my interest is piqued. dave, what is the difference between you, somebody who is trained to deal with these kind of animals, and someone like jeanne who has a great idea and thinks it would be fun to own a couple chimps? >> i think the difference is the education. i have my degree and i spent 12 years as an animal trainer.

i understand the will to do it, but if you want to do something like this, you really have to do it in a professional manner and take care of the animals in a way that, you know, you can manage their whole lives, you can manage they're going to be healthily taken care of. like she says, they get very expensive. >> jeanne, you knew your chimps were related to travis. when that horrible incident went down, did it give you any second thoughts at all about keeping these chimps? >> no. and i wanted to bring you back to the gentleman that was just talking. >> yeah? >> first of all, being a trainer and taking -- having a bunch of education is a lot different than 24/7 one on one. my chimps are not an entertainment, i don't use them for commercials, they're not around people and they're very well protected. all my cages are zoo-accredited standards. and basically, to be honest with you i don't know the guy and i

can't see you over there but i'm not going to argue with you, but you don't know because you don't have chimps. you're just going on training and beating them in the head and hitting them with things to make sure they do what they do and throw an arm around them -- >> jeanne, we're about out of time in this, but let me ask you a quick question with a quick answer. you do understand the credibility issue, right? you seem like a nice woman but you are a woman who got some chimps several years ago. you understand the criticism? >> no, no, i don't. >> okay. >> because everyone should be criticized. it's not because i'm a woman and because i have chimpanzees. everyone should be criticized for having a chimp, being a trainer or a breeder or owning them. it's not just because i own them. we should all be criticized for owning chimpanzees. >>oi have to interrupt you. i know it is hard when you're not here. what is it about the people who want exotic animals like jeanne does for pets? why won't a cat or a goldfish do? we will have answers when we

come back.

we are back talking exotic animals with chimp owner jeanne risoto. we're now joined by dr. michelle golland, clinical psychologist and contributor to

momlogic.com. dr. golland, you've been listening in on this and we've just had a pretty healthy exchange between expert and a woman who would say, even though i don't have the degree, i am an expert. what's your take, psychologically, what goes on with somebody who wants to own a wild animal. >> well there's a few things. first, what we have to remember, jeff, is people are attached to their animals in such intense ways. people consider them family, you know? and so i think in this situation, what we have to look at is how are these animals or these choices of animals impacting our functioning level? if i were to be sitting with a client and i find out that they're dealing with major financial issues because they can't afford what they're doing, or they're no longer seeing family, or they can't afford to feed the animal yet they keep it going like that, then we're

talking these are some deep, deep-rooted issues that need to be looked at. >> jeanne, we are going to get to you and i know we're talking about you but not talking with you yet. are there any behavioral or social commonalities? are, typically, people who own pets, are they in relationships? do they tend to be loners? to me it seems a little more unusual than usual. >> i think the problem, like in the example of these chimps, is it takes so much energy and time and financial resources to actually do this appropriately that it's a very difficult thing to do without it becoming a serious problem in your life. >> jeanne, have you heard this before? have other people in your life said, you know, this doesn't seem right. you should talk to somebody about this. this is a little crazy? >> well, actually, here's how i feel. i shouldn't own chimps, no one should own chimps. people should not own chimpanzees. however, i bought the chimps and i'm doing the best i can right

now with the chimps. i would love for the chimps -- i have a great sanctuary i'd love for them to go to. if anybody can take my chimps and it's better than where they are right now, i'd take them there tomorrow. however no one can they're all filled -- >> jeanne, are you in a little over your head, then? >> no, not at all. i just, i just know it's time -- i have overcome the fact that the chimps need to be with other chimps and that's really hard for a chimp owner to do. and i think the lady that was just speaking -- i'm sorry, i didn't remember your name because i don't see anybody here and it's kind of hard -- i understand what you're saying and she's correct. she is right. we fall in love with these creatures, and to actually say we made a mistake to get past that hump and start doing the right thing for the chimpanzee is where you need to be, and that's where i'm at. >> so dr. golland -- >> while i'm there -- while i'm there, i try to give them the

best life i can so -- >> i want to say something. i think it is so important, jeanne, that you have acknowledged that. and what you can do by acknowledging this and realizing that -- your love -- i can only imagine how much you love them and care for them like your babies. i can relate to that very much. but i think letting people understand that this is not okay, that this can become such a problem, you can have the best intentions, but it's really going down a road that is really dangerous. and if there is anyone, i would really, please, contact jeanne. please. >> she's looking for a sanctuary if there is anybody out there. >> jeanne, anyone who is considering doing what you did, i think it's so important that you say that so that somebody doesn't get in the position that she's in now. it's really courageous of you to say that.

>> yeah, thank you for -- thank you for being with us, jeanne and -- yes? >> i was just going to say, i would like to invite other chimp owners to talk to me, because i do understand what it is like to admit that we shouldn't be doing what we're doing and we need to put them where they belong worth chimpanzees. i would love to help them out. it's been hard for me. i love them. but they need to be with chimps. and like i said, i'm not going to make them go backwards, either, and put them in a home that's less than what they have. i'm more than happy to put them where they belong in something that's better than what i have now. is it the animal's fault or is it the owner's when something goes wrong? the brother of the woman who was mauled by travis the chimp is next. he is here now. stick around.

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we're discussing chimps as pets and the dangers involved. animal planet's "fatal attractions" premiers sunday, march 14th. michael nash joins us. his twin sister was mauled by travis the chimp. still with us is jeanne rizzotto

who owns two chimpanzees and michelle golland a clinical psychologist. michael, your sister made, unfortunate, international headlines when she was mauled by a 200-pound chimp. and then she was courageous enough to go on "oprah" and talk about it and show the damage. what did she tell you about that day? >> she doesn't remember that day. she was totally out of her mind. she was in a coma two months, and when she came out, it took about three or four months for her brain to get normalized. >> alright, well, michael, i'll prepare you. we're going to listen now to that horrific 911 call that was made by travis' owner, sandra harold. take a listen. >> 911, where is your emergency? >> send the police! >> no problem. >> the chimps killed -- killed my friend! >> who is killing your friend?

>> my chimpanzee. >> oh, your chimpanzee is killing your friend. he ripped her apart. hurry up. >> what is the monkey doing? tell me. >> he ripped her face off. she's dead. >> why are you saying she's dead? >> he ripped her apart. >> he ripped what apart, her face? >> everything. >> he ripped her apart? >> i think i'm going to faint. i think i'm going to pass out. >> just breathe, okay? hang on until they get there. >> please hurry. >> michael, this was a mauling. she lost both her hands. she lost an eyelid, she lost her nose. she's now had her eyes removed so she can no longer see. how is she doing today? >> she's doing real good. she's happy. she even called me up to tell me this was coming on tonight. and i told her to listen to me. >> so she seems to be doing all right. you know, your sister and

saundra, the owner of the pet, they were very close friends. >> they weren't close. >> they weren't close friends? >> not close. >> they were friends enough that she was over there visiting. >> right, yes. she worked for her. >> okay. all right. we're getting some new information. let's listen to what saundra says now and then i'd like to ask you what the relationship of the two of these women are today. >> charlotte's injuries were horrific. she lost her hands. the bones in the middle of her face had been crushed. she had no nose, no lips or eyesight. while charla was fighting are for her life, saundra still asked if she thought chimps should be pets. >> would i have done it again? yes. it was horrific what happened and i had to do what i had to do, but i'll still miss him for the rest of my life. >> michael, reaction to hearing

that she wouldn't change a thing. >> that's kind of typical of her behavior in everything she does. so it doesn't surprise me. >> doesn't surprise you. jeanne, i'm guessing you don't have the same reaction. based on what you said earlier, do you have a little fear that the longer you keep these chimps, the more possible it is that there might be an attack by them? >> you know, i don't have a fear of my own chimps, but i do have a fear of other people's chimps. so, really, the answer to that -- i really can't answer sandra because there are so many victims here. i can't imagine how she felt having to stab her own chimpanzee, this lady getting mauled like this. the only thing i did from that that i thought would help me, and i hope other chimp owners do this, is right away i took it upon myself to make the environment of my own chimpanzees better.

i made it safer. i had an assessment guy come out and i took it from there because i don't want to see it again, and i don't want to see it happen from my chimps. >> dr. golland, on one hand, jeanne sounds like she understands it's not a good idea, and on the other, she says, but my chimps are okay. >> i think that's part of what happens with animal owners of the dangerous pets is that there's this belief that they're unique and that they're special and that they can handle it or that their relationship with that animal somehow transcends the animal's true nature. and it's just a false belief. >> doctor, thank you for being with us. one man's pet lizard killed him and then ate him. it's true. that fatal attraction is next on "larry king live." i was short of breath,

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further investigation began to uncover evidence that huff had been bitten just days before his death. in the past, he'd been strong enough to fight off infections, but by the time he realized the symptoms were overtaking him, it could have been too late.

the first bite might have been bad luck on huff's part. but now he was defenseless. ron huff's death was gruesome. but to those that understood him, it seems to have come about because he was more concerned for the welfare of his pets than himself. >> and with that, we welcome you back to "larry king live." i'm jeff probst sitting in for larry tonight. josephine martell is back with us. she's an animal welfare psychology expert. psychologist michelle golland is also here. winston is a herpatologist features on animal planet march 14th. we just heard about mr. huff eaten by monitor lizards. does that make sense, to have a houseful of monitor lizards as pets? is that something that could work in that situation?

>> it might not make sense to you or me but it made sense to ron and there are lots of other people out there that do that sort of thing. they have a real passion for the animal. >> is they different appeal -- or a different person that wants a reptile rather than a chimp. you're not going to do much with a monitor lizard other than observe them, i'm guessing. >> yeah, there's a difference. i say we because i'm one of these people in terms of the passion that we all share for the animals. we tend to be more interested in their intrinsic with their value of the animals, their behaviors. there are so many different species of amphibians and reptiles you can keep in your home. you can't keep an elephant if your backyard, but if you're interested in reptiles, you can keep virtually any of them in your home. >> the infection, the bites. how deadly is that? >> any predator can cause a pretty serious infection from

a bite. whether it's a reptile or a big cat, certainly. >> josephine, in your work, is this common for somebody who has a reptile to have several? >> you know, we certainly see it with big cats. often people have you know ten to 20 tigers. >> is there a chance, winston, that ron could have -- it handled differently. you know, they were roaming around his house. if those had been caged or in a separate area, does that make it safe? or is this like, with all of these animals, a risk? >> i think anytime you bring any wild animal into your home, even some domestic animals there is a certain amount of risk, with some wild animals that risk is greatly elevated. i think in ron's case, it had a lot to do with his particular personality, and a lot of people who keep lots of wild animals are the same. >> dr. golland, unfortunately,

ron's not with us and this was a fatal attack. is something like this clinically diagnosed? is this a mental illness? >> it can become a mental illness, and i totally respect -- there is a level of passion for these sorts, whether it's reptiles or chimps or any of that. but when it starts to become all-consuming and someone is physically putting themself in harm, you know, by making their environment only for the lizards, losing sight of self, again, it seems that he was keeping the apartment a certain degree and all of those sorts of things, and they were running around there. there was an element of hoarding and obsessive-compulsive disorder that seems to have possibly been at play here. >> thanks for your insight in this continually fascinating story. up next, the story of a woman and her poisonous snake. why would anybody have one or more is something we're going to

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coming up at the top of the hour on "360," is the president about to flip-flop on his vow to try terrorist suspects in civilian court in new york? it's starting to look like it and the left wing is not happy. a change of heart for the president and what it means for the midterms. also tonight, new details about the man who showed up at the pentagon yesterday bent on killing his obsession with conspiracy theories and his history with mental illness. we'll take a look at his motivation and what may have driven him. all that and my conversation with kelly ripa about who she thinks will take home an oscar.

but may be hanging out with lou dobbs. we'll explain on "360" at the top of the hour. while being rushed into the emergency room, alexandra hall still had the presence of mind to tell her doctors what happened. the hospital treated her with the generic snake anti-venom and did what they could to keep her alive. alexandra hall was able to tell doctors how she was bitten, but after that she lost consciousness. within two days, she was dead from a brain hemorrhage. >> welcome back to "larry king live." we are joined now with a friend which we will get to in a moment, but winston, before we introduce this guy which is getting closer to me by the second. in fact, he's coming to say hello right now, you were involved in this story we just saw, and basically what happened was she was bitten by a snake, went to the hospital, got a

general antivenom. they didn't have the specific antivenom. this is amazing and i can't say i completely -- larry will be glad he wasn't here when we're finished with this show. but when you went to the house, a snake wasn't the only thing she had in there. >> no, alexandra had a collection of about 30 animals. about half of those were venomous snakes. not particularly unusual. within cincinnati, within the same year alexandra was killed by her venomous snake there were two other bites that occurred in that same city. one of those, the victim died and the other survived. >> what kind of snake is that? >> this is a burmese python. obviously it's albino, not it's normal color. >> this is the mother of all pythons? this is the biggestane would guess the most common when people decide they want a big snake?

>> these are quite common in the pet trade. just a point of interest, most of the animals you've talked about today are born in captivity. there's a huge industry in the u.s. and rarely are these animals being brought in from the wild. >> is it like the wild, wild west out there, that you can go on the internet -- i went on this afternoon and found there are many exotic pets i could have probably in a few days. >> up of these burmese pythons a female can produce 50 offspring in a year. if the animal is reproducing for five or six years, that one snake can produce a lot of babies. >> josephine, we're talking about the idea of hoarding, like this woman who had so many animals in her home. what do you know about hoarding? how do you classify it? what makes somebody a hoarder? >> animal hoarding is considered a disorder. it's defend as large amounts accumulation of animals. the failure to provide minimal standards of care for these animals as well as the doctor mentioned, a lack of insight to that failure and as well as a denial of the consequences in

the behavior. in the case of dangerous, exotic animals like cats, chimps and dangerous reptiles th this fail is even more pronounced because animals require specialized care and diet and containment as well as they pose a huge safety threat to the community. and to the owners, themselves. >> dr. golland, how do you wrap all of this up? or, you can capture all of this? all of the different animals that we've had, the different types of people who own them? >> right. i think what it so important to understand we have passion about our animals, and it's actually related very much to childhood, which your first guest talked about, about the black cat she loved. but what we have to keep in mind it cannot impair our functioning. if it is damaging our social world, relationships, our financial situation then it's time to take a serious look at ourselves and our decisions about pets. >> winston, one last quick

question, quick answer. i'm unnerved with this snake here. clearly i don't want to own one. what is it that's so fascinating to own a deadly snake? >> i don't know. i could ask that of the people who owned the chimps. i don't understand that. i love these animals, and any time i have an opportunity just to sit down and talk to somebody about them for a couple hours, they're never the same. just fascinating. >> you could sway me to take home this burmese python? >> i don't want you to take it home but i can definitely sway you to see the value in it. >> all right. well, our next guest, take a look at this, another gorgeous animal for sure. but this lynx isn't just a bigger and better version of the cat. we're going to walk on the wild side. "larry king live" returns right after this. 

dave is animal planet's large predator expert and he is here with a large predator, a lynx. who is this? >> this is boomer. >> when you're here, he's totally comfortable. you're okay. just stroke him on the back. stay away from the head. it's a dominance type of thing. all things probably some of these pet owners should know if you're going to have an animal. >> before this show started i don't think i would have been near as concerned about petting him and now i am. are there things you can do with you here that make this safe? >> absolutely. i mean, the fact that there are people that have no training at all that take these pets. they don't make good pets,

shouldn't be pets. there are people who know how to take care of wild animals. we've got accredited zoos and people who have spent years of their lives studying how animals can be best taken care of. and i think that that's what we have to realize -- >> if i took this animal home -- >> you'd probably die. the fact of the matter is like the chimp lady, those animals are getting old enough they're going to turn on her eventually. a predator is a predator. their instincts will kick in. this guy is docile, he's been trained and he's been raised properly around people. but the fact of the matter is, he's got instincts that says, i want to kill something. if you're the only thing around him eventually he's going to try. >> is there ever a time after this whole hour, a person who is not trained, even though they may think they are qualified, to have a pretty like this? >> the obvious answer is never. these are not pets. you cannot tame a wild animal. you can train them, handle them

but you cannot tame them. new and train them, tame them meaning they're always wild. >> this is a wild animal. take the chimps, put them in diapers, give this guy a bottle but it's a wild animals. those instincts are far stronger than all your loves and all your hugs for all the years. they're eventually going to try something on you. because that's what their body tells them do. >> how sold this guy? >> this guy is an adult. i think he's around six years. >> will he get much bigger? >> this is his size. this is a siberian lynx. they're the biggest of all the lynx. i met him recently and came in surprised how big he is. i think you're brave to come by and pet him. >> i'm feeling a little brave right now. every time he turns his head and looks back at me i'm not really comfortable with it. >> that's the thing you can look at him. i can see his whiskers are back, his ears are forward. he's not staring at you. i know i'm going to hang on to this leash. i'm staying by the head and i've told you to only pet back here. those are safety precautions i know over 12 years of

experience. >> just going back to what we were talking about earlier with jeanne, jeannie was honest in saying, i know it's not a good idea, however i must say i'm okay with my chimps. >> that's the thing. everyone has their relationship. everyone thinks they're not going to be the one. they all know other people are going to get attacked. we all know people die in car accidents but go driving thinking we won't be the one. unfortunately, with wild animals you'll always be the one if you don't know what you're doing. >> are we in trouble in terms of laws and regulations? >> definitely we need to look at the people that are doing it right. they need to sit down together and try and come up with laws that prevent people from making these pets. get rid of those black markets, get rid of these guys who have got these animin