them, four other same sex couples who went under latin america's first law. arguing the weddings are unconstitutional. campbell, back to you. >> mike galanos for us tonight. see you tomorrow. that is it for us. follow me any time on twitter. have a great night. "larry king live" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> larry: tonight, addiction and the duction it causes. >> when you hate yourself, when you hate the guy in the mirror, what i did. >> larry: sex, drugs, booze. >> i was a lush, larry. >> larry: raw, real accounts of getting high. >> any time i drank there was only one reason to drink. that's to get completely wasted. >> larry: and getting sober. >> denial is part of addiction. >> larry: those who have been there, done that --

>> i started stealing my dad's drug. >> larry: share their struggles, their secrets. >> when i was 4 to 7 with the man that baby sat me. >> larry: and how they finally conquered the demons that threatened to destroe them, next on "larry king live." very important program tonight. our guests are dr. drew pinsky, host of vh1's "celebrity rehab with dr. drew." new program "sober house" on vh1. our good friend, tom arnold, actor, recovering akick. host of "kid pitch" on fox sports net. in faireness, my children are active participants in that show. i really like. >> in fairness, they're both better than you and i combined. seriously. >> larry: all right. the key question, doctor, i don't know if it's ever been answered.

why do people get addicted? >> addiction, how to define addiction is the place to start this. people have all sorts of opinions about whether addiction is a disease or isn't. i urge people to first define what disease is whether they determine something is or isn't a disease. a disease is an abnormal state of physiology reflected in signs and symptoms that progress in a predictable way. when people get hung up with addiction, that it's a brain disease. that's where the path at physiology is. the manifestations are is has a genetic component. it's a biological disorder. again, a brain disease. the hallmarks, manifestations are aggressive use and preo pags. and finally denial. if you have family history, evidence of use despite consequences that's the sign you have this condition. >> larry: tom, you did not know or do not know why you are an addict, do you? >> i know this. i don't understand why people only drink two drinks. i -- any time i drank there's only one reason to drink.

that's to get completely wasted. and then to g on from there. and so -- >> larry: you know why you started? >> because i liked it. it made me feel good. >> that's a very important question because people are beginning to come to terms these days with the idea that addiction is a brain disorder and a switch is in the brain where they lose control of their motivational priorities. where many of the people get hung up, why did you drink in the first place, then, tom? he said it exactly there. i felt better. people feel good or feel better. they're trying to regulate emotions that are unregulated. if you have this genetic potential and find your way to the substance it works for you. >> larry: could someone have two drinks and be an alcoholic, three drinks and not be? >> yes. >> larry: it's what does to you. >> it's what it does to you, the b manifestations and consequences. >> larry: tom is an alcoholic, right, though he's sober? >> he had the genetic potential. that gene was activated. >> i know that from my first drinks at schaffer's stadium in

ottumwa, iowa, when i was 11 years old, the first time i drank a couple beers, i felt good about myself, very powerful. i didn't think about the bad stuff. i liked it. it was a cure for what was ailing me. >> larry: how long before it affected your life? >> i started getting arrested when i was 15 or 16, and, but, you know, where i grew up that was just sort of part of life. i didn't think it was a problem because i didn't use drugs. i didn't even smoke pot until i was out of high school. later in life when i discovered cocaine i discovered that's it. that's what i need. >> larry: cocaine an addendum to alcohol? did you do both? >> i did until the end then i just quit alcohol, just focused on cocaine because that was what made me feel the best. >> tom actually has one of the most traumatic stories when you were locked in the bathroom led ready to cut your eye. >> i had been up for five days. was my usual thing with cocaine. i was looking at my eyes. i noticed there was skin on the

outside of my eye ball and thought that shouldn't be there. i pulled it out from my eye ball with tweezers. i was just about to cut it. you know, to get rid of that skin. and that's the kind of stuff you do when you've been up for five days on cocaine. >> you told me the fbi was on the other side of the mirror telling you to do this. >> it was all being filmed for a documentary the fbi was doing on addiction. i was talking to the mirror. i said, i know you're here and filming this. anyway, this is what i'm going to do. >> larry: my late friend, lenny bruce, used to say there has to be some drug addicts who are okay. they're addicted but they're okay. >> the first time i did cocaine in 1984 it was awesome. it was so awesome. i did it all. i used my girlfriend's cash card and went and got more. then every time for the next five years that i did it it was less awesome. i tried to get back to that first day. the end i knew for sure as soon as i snorted cocaine i'd feel

depre depressed, paranoid, all those other things. i still did it in hopes of reaching that first point. >> in hopes of is the brain trying to make sense of the -- >> doing the same thing over and over and knowing the results but expecting different results. >> larry: mackenzie phillips is here with her harrowing account of addiction and the latest on her half sister's disorder as well. that's our subject tonight. addiction. don't go away. when i grow up,

i want to fix up old houses. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up, i want to take him on his first flight. i want to run a marathon. i'm going to work with kids. i'm going to own my own restaurant.

when i grow up, i'm going to start a band. [ female announcer ] at aarp we believe you're never done growing. thanks, mom. i just want to get my car back. [ female announcer ] together we can discover the best of what's next at aarp.org. would you allow me to at least redo that bathroom or your bedroom or some way of -- to me, i was sort of percolating with it for a couple days and thought, why don't we just fix it? let's go do it while you're here. you walk back into home and you've got something that supports your sobriety. >> you're going to make me cry. that's really nice. you know -- >> let's go do it. >> i walked in here thinking this is going to be all about a tv show, but you people care so much. you guys blow me away on a daily

basis. >> larry: joining us now, mackenzie phillips, the actress, bestselling author of "high on arrival." she's a participant in this season's celebrity rehab with dr. drew. how long have you been sober? >> i have been since august of 2008. >> larry: so recent. >> well, it's 2010. >> larry: well, it's only two years. >> yeah. >> larry: how long are you sober, tom? >> december 10th, 2009, was my 20th sober birthday and, knock on wood. i'm still sober. >> larry: was your addiction liquor? >> no. my addiction was hard drugs. cocaine. >> larry: you know why you started? >> boy, you know, i've recently been able to revisit that. i grew up in a very per missive household with my father. there were drugs all around. you know, the rock 'n' roll lifestyle. i saw a lot of drugs as a child and i started, you know, stealing my dad's drugs and smoking pot with him when i was 10 or 11.

>> larry: feel good right away? why would you do it again if you didn't? >> exactly. we hear this all the time, i felt like i was home. i felt like i finally belonged -- i fit in. i was actually, like, you know, worthy. i felt worthy. before that i sort of felt like this weird little kid everyone was kind of talking about. >> larry: how is she doing, doc? >> oh, mackenzie is great. this book was really an important part of her journey. work on her sobriety, letting people know who she actually is. i think mack gets a bad wrap. some people look at addicts as, oh, just that addict. when you really understand the story, the biology they're dealing with, the circumstances that contributed to them initiating their drug use, it starts to become justice. a poignant human condition. >> larry: mackenzie, how do you make a drug of choice? >> well, i don't know the mechanics of it, but for me it was, you know, using around until i found something that made me feel just like tom, it was cocaine. >> larry: what was your drug? >> cocaine. then i was clean and sober for ten years.

after my father passed away i relap relapsed. then i started using cocaine again then i started using heroin. >> larry: on the day you relapsed, what happened? what caused -- >> you know, it wasn't -- it wasn't something that was in the moment. for me it was a gradual process. i started having ridiculously intense physical pain and i was put on painkillers by the doctors which made me -- they said, you know, you're probably going to be on opiates the rest of your life. >> she's in relapse, things are under way. >> larry: were you sober and went back? >> yeah, of course. it took me, 1986 i started, you know, i'd been arrested seven times. i started saying, this could be a problem. i started trying to get sober. it took me three years to get one day. you know, i've known mackenzie a long time and, you know, when you hear 2008 to 2010, that doesn't sound like a long time. i know she's worked on it for

many, many, many years. and also with me, i have mild us aburgers and adhd. as a kid i was put on ridli dmrks. >> me, too. >> i said, if i can do ridlin, i can do cocaine. i mean, that's perfect. >> larry: in your book you said you had a consensual sex relationship with your father. you said it on this show. now you changed. it wasn't consensual. >> i think it was a very difficult word for me to wrap my mind around when i was writing the book. i kept thinking, i'm so not comfortable with this word because it doesn't seem to actually tell the right story. for want of a better word i used the word consensual. i've been schooled by hundreds and thousands of survivors and people like drew around the world and around the country there is really no such thing as consensual incest. >> she's trying to protect her father which i understand. our natural instinct. >> larry: your half sister, the

musician, chyna phillips, recently out of rehab. for anxiety, right? >> correct. >> larry: how is she doing? >> she's doing great. i feel like she did a great thing for herself and all of us. you know, i support her the way she supported me. >> larry: why is addiction so hard to stop? >> because you have to understand that for an addict -- even i, as somebody who deals with this all the time, blink once in a while and lose the focus. the focus is of an addict, survival equals using. period. so all, every though, every feeling, even though not maybe associated with an appetitive desire or a craving, all motivations are directed toward using in some fashion. every thought, every idea. if tom thinks it's a good idea to visit a neighborhood where me used to score cocaine because they need to scout for a film, i promise you the reason he's not going down there is to scout for a film. >> the interesting thing is even if you know you're screwed, you are screwed.

you have so screwed up. you've lost your sobriety and you're using -- you can't find out how to stop. was hiding an addiction secret for years. she's going to tell us what it was and why she wants you to know about it, next. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. talk to your doctor, and take care of what you have to take care of.

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for the third year in a row. ♪ and now, for qualified current lessees, cadillac announces the new luxury collection lease. >> larry: our full panel is assembled with the addition of jane velez-mitchell from new york, host of "issues" with jane velez-mitchell from hln.

what were you addicted to, jane? why was it a secret? >> well, i was a lush, larry. and god willing in april i'll have 15 years of sobriety. i was a blackout drinker. in fact, i would call my friends the next morning and call damage assessment meetings. i say, what the heck happened after 9:45? i can remember this, but i can't remember -- some people can keep drinking and drinking because they don't black out and they manage to function. for me it was a very serious, serious disease. i had to stop and thank god i got into recovery. >> larry: do you remember why you started? can you remember why you started? >> well, i think it says -- the shrinks say multidetermined, meaning there's a lot of reasons. i had a genetic predisposition. my dad was a high functioning alcoholic advertises executive. environmentally i saw it in the home. i didn't realize people didn't have three or four martinis a night before going to bed. i thought that was normal. when i got into high school,

book shy, bookworm, only child, didn't have a lot of friends. one day i said, you know what, i'm turn into a loaner. i'm going to get popular. my dad would send me down to get quarts of gordon's gin. get me a couple of quarts of gordon's gin. i started taking my own wine. i think it was wild irish rose and boone's farm. i would take a couple bottles on my own. soon i had a wine closet. i was real popular. >> larry: you said you were drinking down your sexually meaning -- >> well, i'm gay and i'm out. that took a long time to get there. as long as i had the alcohol i could drink down those uncomfortable feelings. i had to come to terms with who i was. i went into therapy and i -- first i told my therapist then i told my close friends and family and finally talking about senator larry craig on a radio show i told the rest of us that i'm gay. >> larry: how did you get sober?

>> well, i hit bottom. it's kind of funny because i was at a party recently and i ended up in front of the house where i hit bottom. i said, that's where i hit bottom. the 15 years just ran before me like a high-speed movie. i'm so, so grateful now. i know that i never have to worry about what i'm going to say or do as the night wares on. i know i'll remember everything that happens. i know i can never do anything as a sober person that's ever as embarrassing as what i did when i drank. and i know that as the old saying goes, on you know, my worst day sober is better than my best day drunk. i got sober when i got sick and tired of being sick and tired. i was very lucky. u never got a dui. i was a blackout drinker. >> larry: drew, if someone manages to quit, how much help do they need solving the problem that caused in the first place? >> well, very often just treating the alcoholism as an

addiction manages these other issues motivating the using in the first place. many of your questions are directed toward why did you use? why did you start? a lot of children today had childhood traumas. emotional disregulation. as they hit adolesceolescencado. our solution gives drugs and alcohol. that's where they feel better. they keep going and finally the switch is thrown on our disease. >> when i got sober at the end you do your alcohol inventory, drug inventory and have you do a sexual inventory, i thought, what does this have to do with anything? i'm writing through this and i said, well, there's this thing that happened when i was 4 to 7 with the man that babe bysat me and it was a game and, you know, but that was, you know, it was something i always just didn't want to talk about or -- i wasn't ashamed. i just never really faced it. >> i dealt with that, i don't think about it any more.

it gets filed away. >> larry: jane, did you ever try hard drugs? >> i think that anybody who's my age that says they never dabbled is either living under a rock or lying. yes. that was not my drug of choice. my first drug of choice and the one that really was the problem for me, the one i was obsessed with was alcohol. i didn't need those other hard drugs. give me two margaritas and i might as well have been on lsd, frankly. >> larry: we're going to take a break and come back with more. our subject tonight all the way is addiction. the panel will be with us all the way. heidi montague, tiger woods, charlie sheen. do they all have real addictions? we'll talk about that ahead. ly? (announcer) people everywhere are discovering what's really going on with their feet. you have flat feet. i do? (announcer) foot care scientists are behind dr. scholl's custom fit orthotic center. as flat as kansas, sir. that's flat. whoa! (announcer) its unique foot mapping technology identifies the areas you put the most pressure on. then recommends the custom fit orthotic that's best fo@)your feet. for customized comfort all day long.

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dr. drew asked me today, it was so funny. >> what did he say? >> he goes, when do you think was the time in your life that you drank the most? and i said, oh, that's easy. he goes -- what are you doing? she's dead.

somebody killed mindy. mindy? mindy, are you faking it? she's not faking this. she's having a seizure. nurse? nurse? she's having a seizure. right now. >> larry: when you wake up in the morning, mackenzie, are you mad at yourself? >> no. no. i'm not mad at myself. >> larry: were you mad at yourself? >> in past i was always -- i have a hard time. the only way to get sober is to do it for me. me and not my ex-wife or my job or whatever. and when you hate yourself, when you hate the guy in the mirror, which is what i did, i could see no way through that, but last time in rehab when i was packing up my stuff to leave the house, i threw in a picture of myself when i was 4. i don't know why, but this is how god works if people believe in god. i was going through that and found a picture of myself when i was 4.

that's when my mother left. i love him. he's a great little kid. i realized, that's me. so i'm going to do that for him, for me. so i still look in the mirror and don't like what i see. >> larry: jane, did you hate yourself? >> oh, yeah. the incomprehensible demoralization you experience when you wake up and say to yourself, who was that person last night? the fact is we're not in charge. we're like robots when we're drinking. it's an uncontrollable craving. people who don't have it can't really identify because they don't know what it's like. the mind is completely a low defense against an addictive craving. >> larry: i want your thoughts on sexual addiction. the tiger woods story. obviously. "the daily beast" had an article tight the every man is a sex addict. saying sexual craving is an innate phenomenon. >> to lose control of it to the point that you have severe consequences upon the people that you love or you put yourself in harm's way, that's a

problem. >> larry: do all of the panelists believe it's an addiction? tom? >> i believe it is for the people we're talking about. why would someone risk hurting their children, their wife, their career, everything they built up, their legacy unless they were addicted to it and do it so blatantly, foolishly that they wanted to get caught obviously? >> you have to understand that people who have sexual addiction, though i'm not one of them,vy a small understanding of it. it's not like they're so thrilled they're having all this sex. it's a compulsion. these people wake up and mas masturbate 60 times a day and go -- >> wait, is that bad? >> larry: jane, how about heidi montague, ten procedures in one day of plastic surgery. in your opinion, is that an addiction, jane? >> she says she isn't, but i say she is. look, if a bum is drunk on the corner he may not call himself an alcoholic, but we can observe

it. there are so many addictions not being acknowledged as addictions in our society. look at the obesity crisis. that's food addiction. look at global warming. that's the addiction to overconsumption. we need to wake up to the addictive component in all of our dysfunctional behavior and start addressing it at such. otherwise we're not going to be able to combat problems. >> larry: don't we like to say, doctor, you're addicted, i'm not? >> denial is part of an addiction. >> larry: i was a smoker, three packs a day. >> addicts like to blame everybody and everything. >> what are you saying, we talk about ms. montague, what is she addicted to? she's not addicted to plastic surgery. >> the opiates she gets after plastic surgery. >> i remember setting -- having -- if i had to have dental surgery or if i was going to -- anything, you know, i remember thinking, wow, i'm going to get vicodin out of this. >> i don't know that heidi's got this, but i see this. >> larry: how about aerosmith's steven tyler addicted to vicodin? >> opiates are one of the most

serious forms of addiction. highest recidivism. >> larry: you can buy legally. >> it's commonly prescribed medication. if you know the right things to say -- >> larry: what does a doctor to if a man comes in and says, i have a terrible headache? what do you do? >> do you have a family ahistory of addiction? >> larry: i have a headache. >> if you give me distorted information i might give you opiates but very small supply. >> larry: we'll be right back with more. we're going to meet a very interesting young lady next. we love getting our outback dirty.

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>> larry: joining us in this segment, stephanie taylor, author of "it's not me, it's you." you took a comical approach to drinking and started writing funny blogs about it. how did that start? >> it was after my first daughter was born and i was so anxious and overwhelmed by being a mom. it was like a crazy time. and i was already a tv writer by trade. so i had to figure out a way to write but from the comfort of my own couch in my pajamas breast-feeding. i started a blog. >> larry: you were drinking at the same time? >> yes. i was drinking wine at the same time. >> larry: when did you start with alcohol? >> oh, i've been drinking since i was maybe 14. like, most of the people here.

>> first drink by 15 increases your risk of alcohol problems by eightfold. >> good to know. >> larry: i love this title. "nap time is the new happy hour." >> yes. >> larry: "sippy cups are not for chardonnay." discuss drinking around your kids. why would you drink in front of kids? >> why wouldn't you? just by itself i don't see anything wrong with drinking around your kids, especially if you're modeling responsible drinking. and in fact, the drinking that kind of got me in trouble was the drinking i was doing after my kids were in bed. the drinking i was doing by myself. with my husband. you know, the kids go to bed, it's mama's time. >> larry: how did you stop? >> sit on the couch, watch "celebrity rehab." >> larry: how did you stop? >> i think for me i knew it was a problem for, you know, a while. it kind of gnaws on you. you get that voice in your head telling you, you know, this is a lot of wine to be drinking every night. can't be good for me. can't be good for my liver. you know, there came a point

where i had this -- i really feel like there was a crack in the window where i woke up one morning on my couch and i was really hung over. i had a fight with my husband the night before which i couldn't remember. and i thought, you know, i have to stop. like, i just made a decision right then and there i needed help. >> larry: have you been accused of glamorizing drinking? >> oh, yeah. >> larry: mother style? >> yeah. >> larry: how do you answer that? >> i think if you're not an alcoholic i don't think there's a reason you shouldn't drink. just because you're around your kids -- i mean, i take issue with the fact that people say, you know, well, how dare you have a glass of wine around your kids or, you know, i mean, yeah, you shouldn't be drunk around your kids. i don't think i was ever saying, you know, go take a bunch of vicodin and have four glasses of wine then parent your kids. >> larry: have you helped people stop, do you think? >> i think so. i really think so. for me i didn't have any idea how much attention it was going to get, just me saying i stopped drinking. i said it on my blog was the

first place. i felt like i wanted to be honest and i felt like since i have made a living writing these books that talked about drinking and how funny it is, you know, i was lying if i didn't tell people i made this decision to stop and i have a problem. well, you know, people just went crazy. >> laughter is a great way to get to people. to deal with issues. >> larry: jane, what do you think of our friend here, stefanie? >> i think laughter is the ultimate intoxication. and that's why i enjoy recovery. is that i'm always laughing with my sober buddies and when you're laughing you're naturally high. so i think that really that is part of the solution. you can't just replace drinking with not drinking. you have to put in something else and you have to really find other choices and humor is the biggest joy. >> larry: stefanie, can you write well when you're sober? >> well, i kind of thought i might have trouble writing sober, but yeah, i can. i just have to -- i don't think

i wrote that well when i was actually drunk. i fell asleep when i was drunk. >> larry: do you think you play better trombone when you're high on marijuana? >> people think they're performing or acting better but they're not. >> i know i was drinking to regulate my moods. i know i had so much anxiety. i've always had anxiety. being a mom kicked it up like five notches. i was definitely drinking to try to feel calm. >> larry: your newest book "it's not me it's you." >> yes. >> i like that. >> larry: stefanie wilder taylor. author of "it's not me it's you." we're going to have her back. and epa-estimated 41 mpg city and all the words stick because they're true. we speak the most fuel-efficient midsize sedan in america. yes, we speak car, and apparently quite well. fusion is now motor trend's 2010 car of the year. get in...and drive one.

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>> larry:. for the record, a declarative statement, my wife had not taken any drugs that could harm her that morning. that morning she woke up, she couldn't breathe. she went out to get some air. sharon followed her out. i'll say this because i know you can, she said, mom, i'm dying, i love you. >> larry: brittany murphy's cause of death, we had her mother and her husband on, community acquired pneumonia, iron deficiency, anemia, multiple drug intoxication.

l.a. county coroner concludes the subject of how injury occurred, drug intake. why does it kill you? >> well, there's various ways it can kill you. it can kill you through the route of administration, introducing bacterial organisms, that sort of thing. for instance, anna nicole smith had an abscess in her buttock, she was so scarred up from previous injections, didn't know it was there. she died. in this case you can, for instance, not respond to the usual symptoms of pneumonia and have depressed respirations and eventually succumb to the illness. >> larry: you ever fear buying it? >> well, i mean, i think you see, here's a situation. i've seen it happen. i'm not going to name names, but well-known people, i remember a kid couldn't sleep. whatever, whatever, whatever. i finally said, take a sleep test. i have. i use a cpap machine. the next tuesday you're supposed to take it, i was in a film festival. got a call. this kid, perfect body, he was

self-medicating. he could not sleep. te didn't make through the weekend. if he went tuesday he would have found out he wasn't getting the right kind of sleep and would not have had to medicated himself and not died. >> larry: do you fear the effect of others, mackenzie? do you think you had an effect on your sister? >> chyna? >> larry: yeah. >> i've been reading a lot about people laying chyna's hospitalization at my feet. i can't say my revelations about my father put cnyna in rehab. i know my addiction has had severe consequences with my loved ones. absolutely. >> larry: in the health area, jane, do you ever fear sorosis of the liver? >> oh, sure. listen, there are so many health problems that are connected with alcohol abuse, like breast cancer, et cetera. i want to say one thing, larry. you know, our whole attitude toward drugs in this country is

so mixed up. we're waging this huge, expensive taxpayer-funded war on illegal drugs when people are keeling over left and right from legal prescription drugs. we have a prescription drug epidemic in this country that's not being recognized by the drug lobby is very tied in with the government. basically the lobbyists dictate to the government so we're locking up people for illegal drugs when everybody's using the prescription drugs and it's just bunk. >> larry: tom, do you think charlie sheen's problems were problems from addiction that would cause him to be violent? >> well -- >> larry: does addiction lead to violence? >> addiction, being drunk could lead to violence. it can. i'm not saying it was charlie. i love charlie. i know charlie. i don't believe anything that i've read about what happened with charlie. you know, i think he's been open about he and his father about his situation. i know he's worked real hard on

it. i've never heard any of the violence attached to it. that's the thing. if you're like me and people know you were once a drug addict they can google my name. they can accuse me of anything. if an ex-wife is accusing me of something in papers -- >> larry: you're susceptible. >> you are a target. charlie sheen is a very good target. >> larry: do you -- what jane said about prescription drugs, is that a bigger problem? >> well, just look at what's happened to young hollywood. you mentioned brittany murphy. that was a prescription medication death. yes, we have an absolute problem with this. where it's coming from, it's a little more complicated. >> larry: what starts that? >> peers. maybe plastic surgery, it may be a broken knee procedure. who knows what. sleep disturbances. as tom said. we have to be exquisitely careful with these extremely good -- remember, these medicines are extremely good but they have potential of killing people. >> larry: the number one thing people want to get rid of is

pain. >> right. you see, people who are clean, you know, the incidence of people losing their clean time by getting on some sort of medication for a dental surgery, for back pain. i mean, i've seen people go -- that's what happened to me. you know -- >> you give mackenzie a vicodin she's going out. she may not be aware of it, but she will -- a few hours later it will change her thinking, change her motivational system and she'll be on her way. doctors don't understand how powerful this biology is. >> i recently had a procedure that in the past i would have taken pain medication for and i absolutely refused and took advil only. >> do you have someone to talk to that's wiser than you? >> i have so many people in my life. >> right here like i do. i broke my back in a motorcycle wreck. i said, do they have medical cocaine i can have? he said no. >> i said, what can i take? >> larry: when i come back i want to talk about coming clean and fear of returning, next. at the hartford, we help you pursue them with confidence.

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coming up at the top of the hour on 360, final push for health care reform. why are insurance companies jacking up the premiums you pay and making billions in profit? we're keeping them honest tonight. we'll talk to michael moore

about what's going on with washington. you no doubt remember chastity bono, all-american daughter of sonny & cher. he's chaz bono. we'll talk to him about the difficult journey he's been on. >> try to imagine if you woke up tomorrow feeling exactly like you do, but your body was female. how would that feel to you? and that's, you know, basically how i felt, you know, from the time of puberty on. >> full interview and more at the top of the hour on "360." >> larry: we're back with our panel, dr. pinsky, is coming clean always a good idea? >> is coming clean always a good idea? you mean trying to get off drugs and alcohol? >> larry: talking about it. >> no, not for everybody. when you can harm yourself or your family or someone else you keep your mouth shut. >> larry: did it help you, tom? >> it did but i did it very carefully. if i cheated on someone in my past past, by cleansing my soul and telling them and hurting

them again does no good. i write a letter, ask their forgiveness. i burn it. i tell someone else. i don't want to harm other people. >> larry: did it help you, mackenzie? >> i believe writing on "high on arrival" helped me immeasurably. >> larry: jane, help you? >> writing my book, "i want," absolutely. i got to clarify my life and look at it objectively. i've gotten hundreds of letters from people who say it's helped them get sober. this is a disease of amnesia. we will forget the way we were unless we constantly remind yourselves. that's why they say all we get is a daily reprieve. >> larry: do you want to drink or something every day? >> i want to feel -- there are days i want to feel out of it. i want to feel nothing. i don't want to feel sad or scared. >> larry: what do you to do suppress it? >> there's a list of things if i do them all i never feel that way. i get up in the morning, i exercise, i journal, i meditate. i call somebody. i do an act of service.

by the time i've done all that i don't have that feeling any more. sometimes, you know, i'll wallow a little bit and my wife will let me wall low for one hour in bed, you know, covers over head. then she gets me up. she's a perfect wife. gets me up. you've done it for 30 years. you can do it. do something about it. then i get doing. then i'm a man so i really get going. i'm awesome. she's like, bring it back down. >> larry: mackenzie, you ever think you're going back? >> i don't. i don't. i feel like there were times in my previous clean time where i would think, you know, one day i'm going to be able to do this again. i don't think that way any more. >> tom, there's a list of things he does. one thing people that are not around this disease don't understand. the one thing on the list i think was the most important was the act of service. that keeps him sober that day. >> larry: jane, do you ever go to a party and want to take one? >> no. i'm really happy to say that the obsession to drink has been lifted. if i continue to work my

recovery program hopefully it will stay that way. dr. drew's absolutely right. it's about changing everything. they say the only thing that has to change is everything. you have to reorder your life. instead of being about ego and fear you have to be of service. i get down on my knees every day and pray, help me to be of service, to do something positive to make life better for somebody else or some other creature on this planet. that really is the spiritual sort of psychic shift that occurs when you get sober. this is a spiritual disease and it requires a spiritual solution. >> larry: is it easy? >> the great thing about it is, one time you don't think about yourself. if i think about tom arnold it gets pretty bad. if i'm of service to some kid, i'll get a call, don't know who they are. show up in compton, if you do this, it will help this kid, whatever. i feel great because i'm not thinking about me. that's what saves my life. being of service is a real selfish thing. it's why i do what i do. >> larry: you like helping others, mackenzie? >> i love helping other people.

like, it gets you out of your own head. >> larry: that's a reward, too? >> yes, absolutely. >> larry: we're going to find out what you should do if you or someone you know needs help. we'll ask dr. drew if there's a magic bullet. first, our cnn hero of the week is a retired luxury home builder moved by the sacrifice of our troops overseas. with more than 30,000 injured there, returning from iraq and afghanistan, dan decided to help them rebuild their lives, literally. watch. >> baghdad ended up being a hell of a ride. i sustained a very severe blast injury. my life just came to a complete halt. >> how are you doing? >> how's everything? you look sharp today. >> thank you. >> i've been building custom homes for 30 years. one of the most important things for a family is a home. i want you to read the sign for me. >> future home of sergeant alexander reyes, united states

army. >> congratulations. giving these folks a new home means the world. >> just thank you. that's all i can say. >> my nap is dan wallrath. we built homes for returning heroes from iraq and afghanistan. the houses are mortgage free. it changes the whole family's life. >> welcome home. >> it gives them just a new start so that they can move forward. these young men and women are doing this for you and me. how can i not help them? when i grow up, i want to fix up old houses. ♪

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>> larry: tom arnold, you know someone you're pretty sure has a problem, what do you do? >> here's the thing. with young people, they're the

hardest. they're invincible. they can't imagine the rest of their life, 16, 15, 17, they can't imagine the rest of their lives which is why we say, think about today. you try anything you can. one thing i do is a lot of them are vegetarians and care about the environment and they're politically correct. i say, you know, that cocaine you snorted, where did that come from? what kind of a death trail did that have getting to the united states? because you're responsible for that, too. you know, that's worse than burning a forest down because somebody probably died getting that stuff here. so you are responsible. that doesn't always work, but, you know, getting them to a point where they understand that kids get depressed now. i think since 9/11, especially, the whole world has been a little bit of a funk. and getting them to believe it's not going to last forever and you don't have to take your own life. and the truth is, and i'm going to say this, it may not be appropriate, but in every city in this country there are 12-step meetings. you don't have to be an addict.

if you're so don and it's valentine's or new year's eve and you're by yourself and thinking about killing yourself because you don't mean anything you go in -- look up one of those meetings, show up, stand up, say how you feel. 20 people will help you. >> larry: does addiction lead to depression, mackenzie? >> i think that it's possible. >> larry: they're associated, aren't they? >> well, apparently, yeah. i've never really had a depression problem, although i've felt down in the dumps. my little pity parties. >> when you come off you're depressed bad. >> larry: when you see someone you think has a problem, what do you do? >> well, you can only really help somebody who wants to help themselves. you can't force anybody to hit bottom. it's like you can take a horse to water but can't make him drink. if you think they want to help, you can tell them about recovery. i mean, recovery is there. any moment, you want it, you can get it. >> larry: do you favor interventions? >> interventions work. >> larry: get the whole family? >> get them together. >> larry: realization. >> get the family involved in

the treatment process. >> larry: are we going to have a magic bullet? >> this is a disease that has a biological component. there are emotional and spiritual elements. >> larry: how about a vaccine? >> the vaccine will reduce the biological proclivity but there will never be a single agent that treats the entirety. >> larry: how about gene alter ration? >> it will reduce the proclivity and less likely to throw themselves into the addictive process. once there, no pills will bring them back. >> larry: with those things advancing won't it get better? >> it will get better. >> larry: less percentage of addiction tomorrow than today. >> science may one day accomplish this but hasn't done so yet. >> 75 years ago, a man, bill wilson wrote a book, the big book of alcoholics anonymous. so unusual, here's a program that costs nothing and strangers will gladly reach out and help you for nothing at any time night or day because it helps

them. there's nothing like it in the world. >> larry: there was a great film, james garner and james woods. >> i saw it in rehab and loved it. >> biological interventions will help make recovery possible. it will be easier to get people into this magical process we call recovery. >> larry: jane, are you optimistic about -- you're optimistic about yourself. about others, too? >> yes. i mean, the world is learning about all these recovery programs. you know, alcoholism goes way back. it's referenced, too, in the bible. we're in the first era really where people have a solution. and the solution is the 12-steps. it really is a miracle. >> larry: almost out of time. >> it can be applied a all sorts of addictions. >> did the michael jackson thing helped people? >> it elevated the situation. >> larry: that should help if you elevate the conversation. >> shows like this, talking about these things. that's why i come out and talk about them. >> larry: we thank our guests. dr. drew pinsky.