series called "life." we have had technical problems, so we'll have it to you later today in the 4:00 eastern hour. we hope you stay tuned for that. stay tuned throughout the day for the latest breaking news. meantime "your money" starts right now. the villains and heroes of the financial crisis -- who saw it coming and how did they cash in on it big time? welcome to "your money". >> my revealing interview with michael lewis coming up, but we begin with the real cost of health care. what you and i will pay for health care now and in the future. andrew rubin is vp of clinical affairs and host of sirius x mdoc tor radio. what do we see in the near term. the cost of my health care under reform in the next few years? >> until 2014 when the reforms start to kick in, the actual legislation kicks in, i see a little bit more of the same in terms of cost to insurance

premiums. they will probably continue to rise and the system is going to function essentially the same as today, until 2014. >> the premiums are going to rise because health care costs are rising. insurance won't have reformed itself. it will rise for people like us and more for people who are insured by smaller companies that don't, as we describe it, self-insure. >> that's right. we saw it with california, the big controversy reignited president obama in wanting to get health care reform passed where individual policies were raised 34%, 35%. >> short-term costs could rise but after 2014 is when the changes take effect. what changes in terms of cost and why? >> this is great. we have been talking about getting into the details. now we have some details. first, i think competition would be the first component of this. we'll have the state exchanges where insurance companies are competing with themselves for business within the private sector. i think that's good. i think secondly you will see cost reductions.

there is a lot in there. administrative simplification, how to look at costs in the system and make sure we are spending money the right way. there is a lot of meat there. >> less excessive testing. you think that will be an outcome here? >> i think that will come later. the legislation has money for tort reform and excessive testing is linked to tort reform, a little bit to competitive effectiveness. we'll see it, but not right away. >> andrew, good to talk to you. thanks for being with us. andrew rubin from nyo medical center and the host of doctor radio on xm sirius. president obama signing the hire act into law. it's $17.6 billion but $13 billion, the vast majority is for job creation. how does the government create a job? well, nick, it encourages employers -- the private sector to create jobs by exempting them from the social security payroll tax on new hires.

you have to have been out of a job for two months, 60 days. that's a 6.2% payroll tax. it can be up to $6200 a worker. if the worker stays employed for a year, the company gets another $1,000. you're hiring people at a discount. the hope is it may create, by some estimates up to 300,000 jobs. some people think it won't be the case. does this sort of thing make companies hire people? american express did a survey in january asking companies why they hire. 42% said -- no surprise here, by the way -- they hire for the same old-fashioned reason you would think, increased customer demand. 11% said they would hire because of the tax credits like the one this jobs bill proposes. that could go up or down depending on how big the credit is. look at that, 5% say they would hire if they had better access to loans. we hear about small businesses which are the growth engine for new jobs not having the same access to credit and that's a

big issue. there are lots of reasons why companies hire or don't hire. this is a hope that the bill may help. >> many critics said $13 billion for 300,000 jobs is a big price tag, but it's part of a very wide -- >> useful to remember that, you know, let's say it creates 300,000 jobs. then you have 300,000 people with more demand because they have good income. theoretically those give birth to more jobs. this is -- this kind of science, as we know, gets complicated. >> it does. it's also subjective. you don't know how it will turn out until it turns out. the job search advice you can't afford to miss. one of these cover letters will get you a phone call from a hiring manager. one of them. the other lands you in the reject pile immediately. we'll show you which one is the cover letter that you want to write. how to write a perfect cover letter. first, how can you describe the cause of the financial collapse on wall street in just one word?

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z.

ali, for the weekend for you i have a romans numeral to ponder. >> tell me. >> it's 40%. it's the share of global wealth destroyed during the financial crisis. 40%. how do we make sure that doesn't happen again? financial reform? senator dodd announced his plan for financial regulatory reform this week. he says it's critical to avoiding another collapse like that. the fed would oversee consumer protection. new rules for too big to fail. an early warning system, a panel to see the problems as they are coming and begin to dismantle companies that are too big to fail and that are a problem. and shareholders get a say on executive pay but it's not binding. so a little concern some of the details are weaker than consumer advocates like.

>> it's a complicated bill. they should be obviously. but it comes down to a couple of things. one is we need to, as a nation, save more money. if you save money and get into a financial situation it gets you through to the other side. when we got into the downturn, americans weren't saving much. >> i sat down with the author michael lewis this week, ali. the author of the first book i ever read about money "a liar's poker." it's an '80s classic and his new book "the big short, inside the doomsday machine." i asked how to fix it when the people workinging for reform were the people in leadership when we got into the mess. >> that's probably true of almost any financial crisis. the mess happens and the people in the seats have to deal with it. by definition they didn't see the mess coming. this is a big mess. it was pretty seeable. so it's amazing that not more people at the top of the system

have been discredited. but give them a mulligan. if they get it right, fine. but it is true. by definition the people who were sitting around the table figuring out what to do in the crisis were people who had not seen it coming. >> there was a grand illusion everyone bought into -- this idea that we needed to lower lending standards so more people could have access to the american dream. this idea that financial engineering would provide innovation in finance to free up money, free up capital so that we could grow together and be richer. everyone believed that and different ideologies played into it. >> yes. what was really going on is that lots of really bad loans were being made and the machine was being built to disguise the risk. the machine was exquisite. it did it so well. it's a story of a kind of financial distoep i can't the last four, five years. wall street is meant to price

risk and allocate capital efficiently. what they did was misprice risk and misallocate capital in the most dramatic ways. both sides of the political spectrum had a story to explain why this was good. but now, you know, the reverse is both now have a story of why it's bad. so the politics may have changed dramatically. >> it's interesting. you talk about the perverse risk and reward on wall street. in a way, wall street turned itself inside out so that its success would eat it alive in the end. its short-term success would actually undermine capitalism. >> yes. this is a riveting story. because the capitalists tried to destroy capitalism without knowing that's what they were doing. if you had to say, what's the one word that describes the problem on wall street? it's short-termism. it is all the incentives to

maximize short-term returns at the possible expense of long-term benefits. so if you look at this very broadly at the risks on the balance sheets when the crisis happened and why they have the losses and why they were the dumb money at the table, essentially the wall street traders were incentivized to sell cheap ka tacatastrophe insurance, to take in premiums now and not worry about the risk later. they all did it. they mispriced insurance because they could keep a slice of the premium. it makes you wonder why, one, the system was structured this way. it's so screwed up. the idea that the institutions taking risk should be public corporations is insane. but they are. why should wall street firms pay rating agencies to rate bonds? that creates a horrible incentive.

why are people paid on short-term results when the consequences of their actions really can be judged only in the long term. it's curious. >> you wrote "liar's poker" and you thought you were peeking in on the world of wall street in the '80s and $3 million to run a financial company, can you im imagi imagine? it just kept getting bigger and more complicated. you could probably never have imagined that it would blow into into this. >> i thought someone paying a couple hundred thousand was a sign that the end was near. no one should have been paying me anything to do it. what happened was more interesting that it just got bigger and bigger. the wall street i described in the 1980s was colorful, exotic, filled with eccentric people behaving on the surface badly. on the surface, wall street became more sanitized, more corporate, more buttoned-up.

people learned not to behave in ways to attract attention. >> you couldn't use the expense report anymore to go to a strip club in the '90s but it didn't mean anything was cleaner. >> the financial guts of the place got more obscene. the behavior wass more socially destructive even as it got seemingly more acceptable. >> we all know about the villains in financial crisis but you may not have heard about the heroes who called the crisis and cashed in on it. who are they? more of the conversation with michael lewis next. client's come in, they're anxious.

scared. they don't know where to begin. so we start to talk about what have they done and what are their goals. and then we plan. it's a very good feeling as an advisor to work with people and help get them to their goals. once people perceive that they can control their destiny then they accomplish unbelievable things. [ male announcer ] we're america's largest financial planning company. meet us today at ameriprise.com.

michael lewis is an expert story teller. he can deconstruct even the most complicated money story like the

financial crisis into a tale of villains and heroes. in this mess, he sees lots of villains, a few heroes and a clueless government. >> goldman sachs went to the casino and placed a bet with aig. and the bet paid off in billions. however, the bet also sunk aig, a fact goldman sachs should have been aware of. it was socially irresponsible. the government steps in to pay off the gambling debt in full. without even starting to negotiate with goldman sachs and saying, look, yeah, they owe you a hundred cents on the dollar, but if we let them go you will get zero. maybe we'll give you 50. that, i can't understand. >> you're a storyteller. there are heroes and villains in every story. there are so many villains. you know, there's dupes and villains, but who are the heroes in the story? some of the people in your book,

in a way are heroes because they saw what was going on. >> and shouted about it. >> and profited from it. >> yeah, they made a fortune from it. they're complicated heroes. i do think the protagonist, the people oh i wanted to follow and the people i thought the readerer would want to follow were -- they were oddballs, people outside the system who realized they couldn't do the normal business of investing in the stock market side because this thing was happening in the subprime mortgage market to overwhelm everything. they crawfished their way toward this bet against subprime mortgage bonds. it is true that they are betting essentially on the collapse of the financial system. but the mere fact that they saw it coming and that they were shoulting about it and the perceptions were accurate, to me, innobles them a little bit. and the shocking thing to me

when i walked into this story and decided to write another book about wall street, which i didn't think i would ever do, was that the whole system had organized itself around this bet. i mean, the whole system was basically on the other side of the bet. the whole system was betting on the subprime mortgage market in one way or another. so few people were on the other side. so few people saw what was happening. but they really did see what was happening and they could describe it and persuade you, even in real time what was happening, but nobody wanted to hear it. to me, it's a finance story. it's also a story of human perception. why certain people are equipped to see certain things. >> you know, ali, after "liar's poker" which was a famous book from the 1980s about his time at solomon brothers he couldn't believe he was writing another money book about just how incredible things have become for a person on the outside to say, how could this happen?

this is ridiculous. he couldn't believe he was writing another money book like that. >> a lot of authors who wrote about the big crazy things on wall street and you would have thought it was the golden era for writers who dealt with scheming and things like that within wall street, we'll never see that again. guess what. we have and we will again. >> it was the appetizer. that period was just the appetizer. >> we just got more sophisticated and better at scheming. >> yep. >> here's an interesting story, talking about scheming. a behind the scenes look at the financial collapse you were talking about to a behind the scenes look at corporate espionage. past and present cia officers have been and could be moonlighting at companies across the country. eamon javers is the author of "broker, trader, lawyer, spy." i have been reading it. good to see you. congratulations on the book. >> thanks for having me. i appreciate it.

>> listen. here's the thing. i wasn't surprised that former spies from agencies around the world are involved in corporate espionage, spying on other countries to try to get information. when i was a little surprised is that some of the people are current cia employees. tell me about it. >> i was surprised, too. when doing the research for the book i was looking into private spy firms that work in the corporate context and you find them staffed by veterans of the cia, british mi-5 and old kgb veterans out there. but what i found here is that the cia has an active duty moonlighting policy where if you are in the cia and want to make extra money on nights and weekends they allow you to moonlight in the private sector and the cia said they do it because they feel they need to have a retention option for employees. people can make so much more money practicing intelligence in

the private sector than they can for the government. they feel like they can let them make cash on the side. >> i assume the jobs are vetted. >> they are. you have to get your manager's approval and you have to fill out paperwork certifying there is no real conflict of interest here. but one instance where i found these guys working was at a firm called bia or business intelligence advisers from boston. that's a firm founded by a core of veteran cia interrogators working for hedge fund clients and other financial clients doing interrogation-style techniques, applying techniques to analysis of companies, annual reports, corporate earnings calls and the like. >> let's look at it in terms of local police. you may call them rent-a-cops working events or facilities. we generally don't think of it as a conflict of interest. but some people say police getting paid by anybody but the government presents a conflict. if they can be paid more money

to turn a blind eye. does that come up in this discussion? >> yeah. you have rent-a-cops and here you have rent-a-spies. the question is where are they working? the cia wouldn't give me a list of the companies they are working for. we have a lot of questions we don't know the answer to. but the cia said, you know, we make sure there is no conflict of interest of here. we make sure nobody is taken off the bin laden unit to work nights and weekends for a big company. >> good to see you. the author of "broker, trader, lawyer, spy, the secret world of corporate espionage". all right. the chinese are mad at the americans. the heat rises on the most important trade relationship in the world. why that could mean that you pay more for just about everything you buy. like, hey, this actually works. (announcer) only rogaine foam is shown to regrow hair in 85% of guys. i'll check it out and i'm like, nice. (announcer) rogain foam. stop losing. start gaining.

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currency which some say is arlt officially low -- artificially low hurting american business. >> the senate is now considering a bill to slap tariffs on chinese goods to make up for the currency edge. that prompted tough language from the chinese who say china's currency is none of the u.s.'s business and that americans should focus on their own problems and not blame china. let's bring in richard quest, host of cnn eyes, quest means business and david gergen, political analyst. welcome to both of you. let me start with what paul krugman wrote in the new york times march 14th. everyone thinks china is a big trade partner of the u.s., holds the u.s. over a barrel because if it decides to sell u.s. currency, it will make the u.s. dollar drop and everything will go bad. paul says, if china dumped the u.s. assets the value of the dollar would fall against other kou currencies like the euro but

that would make our goods more competitive and reduce our trade deficit. on the other hand, it would be bad for china which would suffer large losses on the dollar holdings. in short, right now america has china over a barrel, not the other way around. david, i know you both have something to say about this. david? >> well, it's very counterintuitive, isn't it? >> yeah. >> that the world's largest borrower has its biggest creditor over a barrel. most of the world doesn't see reality in that way. paul's views drew a sharp rebuke from a leading kmits at morgan stanley, steven roach, who worked a lot on asian issues. we are clearly in the midst of a serious debate at home about what the u.s. approach ought to be toward china. >> richard, what do you think of the quote? >> this is a classic beggar thy neighbor policy. when you get one country

attempting to use currency, either appreciating or depreciating, to actually gain a trade advantage you always end up with two people in the same bed in a very uncomfortable position. that's exactly what the situation is with the u.s. and china. remember the old joke -- ali, you owe the bank $100. that's your problem. you owe the bank $10 million, that's the bank's problem. an analogy of that goes along with what the problem is with china and the u.s. of course china can't afford to have the dollar crash with its trillion dollars worth of u.s. debt and, of course, the u.s. needs to have china because that's where it's getting its cheap goods from. >> let's talk about the cheap goods. a lot of people say if you are going to have this leveling of the playing field, that means americans are going to have to give up 20-odd years of buying cheap stuff on low interest rates that this unbalanced

relationship has fostered. i want to ask you, david, politically is there a sense in washington that this is an unsustainable relationship with china and that the senate will do something, that there may be for political reasons there may will be surcharge or so tariffs on the goods? >> i think the threat of senate action is good for president obama. it gives him more of a club in the closet in negotiating with china and his administration in the next few weeks. because let's go back to fundamentals. this is the single most bilateral relationship in the world. it is important it's a win-win and not a beggar thy neighbor thing as we have been hearing. it is important to work this out. they're not banging each other over the head and we get into a deterioration over taiwan and tibet and all the other --

>> it's interesting you bring that up. colin powell speaking on blumberg said you usually oh smooth things over on taiwan and tibet. we have the public say and behind the scenes the diplomacy works, but this time we have google and now these two very famous economists going at it. i wanted to bring this up. so paul krugman said chinese currency policy is adding materially to the world's economic problems at a time when those problems are already very severe. it is time to take a stand. steven roach from morgan stanley when asked, well, isn't that taking a baseball bat at china's policy, he said, we should take out the baseball bat on paul krugman. i have never heard eminent economists insulting each other over china policy. i feel it's a metaphor more what's happening in economic relations. >> they have been listening to the politicians too much.

that's the language of politics and late night food fights on television. look, my expectation is that we will work this out. i will bet that a the chinese over time do appreciate their currency some. they will not completely capitulate, but they are going back to more of a managed currency. they have to. they are under enormous world pressure, but it is important we do it in a way we don't break too many egg shells in getting there. >> thank you very much, guys. always a pleasure to talk to you both. listen, does a cover letter grab a hiring manager's attention the way a movie trailer grabs yours? it should. when we come back, we'll tell you how to write one that does it. >> and check out this picture. which one of these life insurance salesmen was the lead singer of a very famous '70s rock band. probably the most famous '70s rock band, now an insurance

salesman. we have him here on set next. woman down from nasal allergy attack. but we've got

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the cover letter is considered the single most misunderstood aspect of the job search. >> with more than five applicants competing for every open position it is the opportunity to grab a hiring manager's interest, an opportunity you cannot afford to miss. the founder and president of job bound will tell us how to polish up the cover letter. you have two examples for us. you say that most people do this wrong. it's too dense, too much information. i want to show you the do not try this at home version of the cover letter. this is joe somebody. boy, brad, i see a lot of print there. i see four big dense paragraphs.

what is this person doing wrong? >> what this person is doing is what everybody -- and virtually every single person who puts a cover letter together. it's long and boring. i equate it to the back side of a pharmaceutical ad in a magazine. do you read those? >> no. >> no, but you have to have them. >> i have read them, but i guess that's not the point, right? the hiring manager won't do it. >> we're not going to read them. the fact is if someone's spending 10, 15 seconds on your resumé, they won't spend three minutes reading what's essentially a sentence version of the resumé. four paragraphs, block type, single spaced and they take what's already on the resumé and resay it in a longer format. no one reads them. >> here's the middle point -- no substance. this is a tough one for me. i put all this time into the resumé. that's where the story is. this thing is just something i have to do. it's perfunctory.

what is the substance supposed to be? isn't it in the resumé? what do i put in the cover letter? >> think about your cover letter very differently. think about it like a trailer -- like a movie trailer for your resumé. you don't have to tell the whole story, but you have to tell a story that's going to intrigue somebody enough so they do, indeed, read your resumé. you want to make sure it's short, personal attention-getting, but it should tell some story and maybe it's a story about why you are interested in the field or maybe a cool experience that you had. it's almost like your pitch, what sets you apart. >> or a hook or a pitch to get people to want to learn more. you have an example of a good cover letter here. it's shorter, concise. i love the second sentence. it's easy, passion. answering the question why would an established stock broker go back to school to become an editor. tell me what jane smith here has done right in her cover letter.

>> what she's done is she's addressed in this particular case an issue that she was facing over and over again. she was someone who was a stock broker. wanted to become an editor. a total career change. a lot of people are doing it. as a recruiting director when you pick up a resumé and the first thing you see is someone's a stock broker you throw it away. why would a stock broker want to work in editing. she was asked that question over and over again, so we hit it head on in the cover letter. the first question is why would a stock broker want to go into editing and she tells her storiment. >> i like the fact that it has an interesting hook. it ties her into why she'd be good for the job. a lot of the movie trailer you were talking about. but you have a point on the list which says, the last one from the bottom. it needs to be personal. how do you make it personal without sounding too personal? what's personal? >> there is a fine line between too personal and intriguing enough to get somebody to read it. for instance, we talked about the bad version where people

fill it with empty words. they write, i'm hard-working, great work ethic. give me an of example of how you are hard-working. say something like i'm the kind of person who comes in every day before my manager and waits until my manager leaves. i get more work done than everybody in the group. this is why i do it and why i love it. it takes skills and atry buts and brings it to life in a personal way. >> excellent. always a pleasure to see you. brad is the president and founder of job bound. ♪ i want to rock and roll all night ♪ ♪ and party every day >> not the usual "your money" theme music. from kiss to selling life insurance? our next has done that and more. he's not an insurance salesman. he calls it estate planning. >> yeah. we wanted to make the point that gene simmons who many of you

will know. i was a big kiss fan. there he is. good to see you. >> good morning. >> you know gene from kiss, but since then he's built a vast business empire, reality tv show, record company. now a life insurance company. he's a cofounder of cool springs life. now, gene, christine and i are smart about business, but i have to tell you that i have difficult understanding life insurance. universal life insurance. it's a complicated issue. >> it is. >> this is how most people experience the world of life insurance. you decide on a benefit that either your estate or your beneficiaries are going to get when you die. you decide how long you're going to pay for that insurance policy. so say you're 40 years old. you may want to not pay after you're 55. so over 15 years tough cover all the premiums. so they give you a price for what the premium is to cover the insurance policy. typically the premiums are invested by the insurance company. so there is risk and inflation

comes into it. bottom line is if you want an insurance policy that's paid up when you're 55 or 60 you have to pay a certain amount every month and when you die, hopefully that gets paid out to the estate or beneficiaries. now, gene, you have something going on with the new company. i have to start by saying it's for the very rich. but we are hoping someday it will be for everybody. >> let me explain something. >> you get to do that but you don't pay for the insurance? >> ali is a powerful and attractive man and you're a high worth individual. you come into work and you deserve it. you want your family and loved ones to have as much of the estate money as possible. you don't like paying the life insurance premiums. we loan you as much money as applicable in your life insurance policy. what that means is since you're going to be paying a rate of 1.25%, the escrow is in your name. we don't control it.

you do. you will be able to get much more on the interest off that. you can pay off your life insurance premium and minimize your estate taxes. this has never existed before. >> let me see if this makes sense. you're loaning me the money to pay the premiums until the insurance policy is paid up. and you will take that money back out of the loan once i die and once that benefit is paid out. so basically you're giving me a life insurance policy without me paying the premium. >> no cash out of pocket to you. >> gene, stay right there. when we come back we'll look at how much is being spent per child on education in this country. gene has a particularly interesting perspective on education, something more personal than most of you would have known, but the numbers on how much we spend per child in this country may just surprise you. what's around the corner is one of life's great questions.

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looked at school districts in the five largest metro areas. an average $18,000 was spent per student but only $12,500 per student was reported. new york spent the most at $26,900. washington, d.c. at $22,400. los angeles invests $19,000. l.a. underreported spending by a whopping 90%. this is an expensive lesson for states trying to avoid billion dollar budget shortfalls. let's see what the guests have to say. i'm joined by joe queenan and rock star and business mogul gene simmons who used to be a teacher. >> 6th grade. >> 6th grade teacher in -- >> spanish harlem, yeah. >> you're the educator. why the disparities in education spending across the country? why do you think they are vastly underreported? >> which one of us? >> you. >> me. simple idea.

we are weak-spined. i wanted to take off my glasses just for the impact. we don't have the guts to hold teachers accountable. we don't have the guts to hold young people accountable. if you don't make a grade there is no repercussion. you know, in other countries they throw you out of school. >> here's the issue i have. i think the president is being particularly tough on teachers and university oh i don't knows, particularly in public schools. joe, let me ask you this. how much of it can we heap on the teachers? how much of it is not effective spending in schools? how much of it is kids not getting support at home they need? how much of it is the tens of millions of kids who go to school hungry and we know that affects your ability to get educated? how much can you say is the teachers and how much of it is around the student? >> public schools are hard to run. people are involved in a great social experiment. that's not true with private schools. first of all, remember, the cato institute hates public education, hates public schools.

let's not forget that. some people may say, we have to have a second look at the numbers. be that as it may, with public schools, if you have a special needs child you don't send your kid to private school. you send them to public school. that raises the cost. you have to have buses going into all kinds of neighborhoods, all kinds of in all neighborhoods and all kinds of security. the idea of comparing these numbers with private school, i question that. when you talk about the fact that the numbers are, that they're not accurate, that's a shock that our 0 government is lying to us. it's a shock. >> or can't keep track. >> our school board is not telling us the truth? union are not telling the truth? frankly, i find that hard to believe. >> we know we are advancing toward the idea of schools being run more like businesses. >> run it like a mom and pop. when your mom and pop open a grocery store they live and die by whether or not that store makes a profit every week because they have to pay their rent.

privatize some schools with government, you know, looking over with some guidelines. government text books and so on so you have this unity. a school has to be able to deliver the graduating classes. if not, we've got to fix what's not working. a union has its own agenda to protect its own. the government is protecting its own. >> we could agree this should the great equalizer who you are when you get to school, no matter what the disparities of your background or socioeconomic status, whatever. this should be the thing that should launch you, give you the same leg up as anyone else. for many it's not working right now. >> if you believe that, for a lot of people including a lot of people at the cato institute don't believe that. there are lots of people in the united states who do not believe in public education. there's lots of people, private schools that this is a way of opting out of the system. i don't want my kids to go to school with those kids it. want my kids to be on the fast track. i don't want my kids to go to school with minority, working

class white people. those of us who do believe in the public school system understand it's a mess. an absolute mess. philadelphia is a mess, new york's a mess. >> gas guzzlers aren't working, introduce electric, a little gas, sometimes it's the hybrid of these things that makes it work. nothing drastic. nothing happens very well with revolution. evolution is a good idea. >> looking for a specific person out there and it could help you earn extra cash. we'll explain. first, starting a business isn't easy. doing it alone is even harder. allan chernoff brings us the story of one partnership of success. >> reporter: the opensea.com was gary's second shot. >> it was tough getting going. got the site launched, was having a tough time with the operations. >> reporter: it was then he realized his dream of a social network for boaters would never set sail without another hand on

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time for one more headline with gene simmons and joe queenan. making a buck in the industry can be tough, but a new youtube service could be a money maker for indy artists. it allows people to get paid when they view them. they'll get a piece of ad revenue. good for musicians and good for youtube? what about the music industry?

what do you think, gene? is this the new way? >> in the interest of full disclosure, i never claimed to be a musician. those are guys that play in holiday inns and get paid $50 an hour. i'm an entertainer. i can do anything. i can juggle, i can do all kinds of stuff. musicians just go la-di-da-di-da. having said that, it is the music industry's fault for being spineless and not holding all those freckle-faced college kids who downloaded music for free accountable like the criminals they are. the reason the music industry is out of business because the foxes were allowed to come into the hen house and steal as many eggings as possible. farm is out of business. the guys that produce all the feed for the chickens are out of business. truckers who brought the eggs to market are out of business. stores who sold the eggs and chickens out of business because this former was go, it's a little fox. let it in. this little hole in the ship,

it's just a little water coming in. it will sink. who is responsible? the music industry is responsible for the mess they got themselves into. why? because they didn't have this. >> ali is not a musician, but he is an economist. >> joe, if gene is right and he probably is, he knows a lot about this stuff, are the youtubes of the world going to be the place where musicians, entertainers and artists can make the money they've been done out of because people were stealing their stuff? >> crooks. >> people said those okay go videos you watch on youtube. i don't pay for any of this stuff. i love it. if musicians want to put that up there for free, that's great. what david bowie said, if you want to be a musician and make money, you better get used to touring. if you think you are going to retire in style or send your kids in private school what you get off your youtube videos, there are a lot of bands out