votes since thursday. john larson, is saying they have 216 votes. he is a guest on candy crowley's "state of the union," which starts now. normally, on sundays, we take a look at the past week and set the agenda from today. today is no normal sunday. we are four hours away from a showdown on the house of representatives, determining the health care reform, impact the economy and influence this year's election and set the stage for the rest of president

o obama's sunday. today is no normal sunday. today is game day. i am candy crowley and this is "state of the union." two house leaders on the house. we have heard the words end game so many times in this health care day baebate, i wouldn't tr now. for democrats, the magic number is 216. that's how many yeas needed to pass the health care bill in the house. 216 votes among the 253 democratic members. it has been a struggle all week to get there. we begin with seven days in two minutes. >> i think we will have the votes. >> if we had 216 votes, this bill would be long gone. >> when we bring the bill to the

floor, we will have the votes. >> we need to get to 216. we are still tweaking stuff. >> your own congressman, who is tireless on behalf of the working people, dennis kucinich. >> it is an important trip that the president will take. i think he looks forward to it. >> it is clear. they don't have the votes, because the american people can't stand this bill. >> i've decided to cast a vote in favor of the legislation. >> that he must postpone his planned visits for a later date. >> as of today, i am still voting no. yes, i am still standing with this principal, protecting the sanctity of life. >> we are just getting votes to pass a bill. >> in a few days, a century-long struggle will culminate in a historic vote.

>> we are about 24 hours from armageddon. >> kill the bill, kill the bill, kill the bill. >> tomorrow will be a sad day for me as i cast a no vote against something i believe we need. >> i will be a proud supporter of health care reform. >> clearly, we believe we have the vote. >> we feel like we have been pregnant for 17 months. let's get on with it already. >> we have been debating health care for decades. it has now been debated for a year. it is in your hands. >> here to look ahead to today's vote and the high stakes politics surrounding it, house democratic caucus chairman, john larson and the house chairman conference chairman, john pence of indiana. state of play, where are you? 216, do you have it locked in? >> this is a historic day. we are happy warriors. we are so proud of the

democratic caucus, that we will be a part of history, joining frankl franklin roosevelt's passage of soci social security. >> so you have got the 216? >> we've got the votes. the reason for that, candy, i think it started earlier this week with natoma canfield becoming the poster child or lady for health care reform. that struck such a cord within our caucus. dennis moore standing up to give a speech and the caucus was blackberried by a woman who works with him in kansas, thank you for voting for this. i know i am losing my job and unfortunately, i have just been diagnosed with cancer. without this bill, i'm lost. dennis ended by saying and she is 24. you could have heard a pin drop. this is about whose side you are

on? clearly, this historic moment in the people's chamber, we are on the side of the american people and those that have been denied access to health care and those who have pre-existing conditions who have been denied and those who have had their policies rescinded? >> i think that puts you on the side not of the people if i take his calculation. what is left for republicans to do? congressman larson says they have the 216. so it is all over by the shouting? you guys vote know and move on? >> i don't know if they have the votes. house republicans are going to use every means at our disposal. >> what is that? >> well, stay tuned, candy. >> can you disrupt the vote? what's available? >> we will use every means at our disposal to oppose this government takeover of health care. quite frankly, as thousands gather at rallies all across this country here in the nation's capital, the american people are sick and tired of runaway federal spending by both

parties of borrowing and bailouts and takeovers. i believe this is going to be a historic weekend i think it is going to be different from the way john thinks it is going to be. i think this weekend is going to be the beginning of the end of business as usual in washington, d.c. i think the american people see an administration and a congress that are in a head-long rush to confront the very real challenges that we have in health care with more government instead of more freedom. republicans have been offering solutions from the beginning. let people purchase health insurance across state lines, cover pre-existing conditions, all of that can be done without a massive, trillion dollar expansion of the federal government and burdening future generations with more deficits. >> the reality of this day is that you don't have the votes to stop it. you may have the means to delay it. >> right. the republicans, it shouldn't be a news flash, republicans don't have the votes to stop anything

in the house of representatives. we are in a decisive minority. what's remarkable about this one-year debate has proven my point, the my joinority in cong plus the american people is a majority. we had deadlines. the american people don't want this government takeover of health care. i don't know if they have the votes today. i guarantee you, the american people know they have the votes in america. >> the american people who are already on medicare, all of our veterans who already receive tri care, understand the importance and the value of having insurance coverage. for 47 million americans who have none, 31 million will now be able to have access to insurance, lowering costs, lowering costs for small businesses, lowering the national debt. first, $138 billion and then

$1.2 trillion. we can't afford not to do this. taking care of those people. >> i want to talk about the debt. hang on one second. i have got to take a quick break. we will come back. i do want to talk about the costs. there are some figures out there floating. >> well be back right after this. ♪ [ woman ] nine iron, it's almost tee-time. time to face the pollen that used to make me sneeze,

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we are back with john larson and mike pence of indiana. we were talking about the cost of this. the cbo has said over ten years, this will reduce the deficit by $143 billion. however, that doesn't include what might come and what's been promised with more than a wink and a nod to doctors, to up their medicare payments, their

reimbursements will cost $208 million, which means it would add to the deficit. is my math correct there? >> well, if that were to be true. here is the thing, there is no question about the fact that we need to take care of the doctors and emphasize primary care. what never gets discussed is $700 billion annually in inefficiencies in this system, lack of operability in hospitals. $700 billion. that's $7 trillion over a ten-year period. i think we will be more than able to ring out the cost in there. that's why the president brought people down to the white house, to try to ring out those costs as we go forward. we spend 20% of gross domestic product. the closest country to us is switzerland. i can't believe we can't get that money out of there.

>> can't we get that money out of there? >> we do such a great job here in washington ringing out the cost. $1.6 trillion deficit this yea . only in washington wag can you say with a straight face you are going to spend $1 trillion and save taxpayers money. democrats are leaving out $200 billion in spend thath speaker of the house committed to spend, which makes this, using this cbos numbers, it makes it a bill that adds to the deficit in the sho short term and long term. you expand the federal government's role in health care without giving the american people more health care choices by purchasing across state lines, without passing any medical malpractice reform, ruffle one-third of health care are defensive medicine driven by junk lawsuits. the american people know this is going to cost more and add more

to the deficit shall add more to the debt, cost higher taxes than the rosiest of scenarios. >> the cbo is the bible. >> it is one of those things that we might not find out until ten years from now. >> pre-existing conditions, for women across this country, candy, i mean, there birth is a pre-existing condition, domestic violence is a pre-existing condition, a c-section is a pre-existing condition? >> my wife had a pre-existing condition i lost my job about 15 years ago. my wife had a pre-existing condition. she was pregnant with our daughter, audrey. we went to the state guarantee fund, a fund that would be replenished if we passed medical malpractice form, we could use the savings to strengthen those

funds. you don't need a government takeover of health care. you don't need to mandate they purchase health care and put us on a pathway towards socialized medicine. that's what they are doing. >> tri-care is run by them. where is the takeover of government? >> if you mandate that every american purchase health insurance and you provide public funding for abortion, you mandate insurance plans, cover it within the exchange, it is a government takeover of health care. >> there is no funding for abortion in this bill. it follows high. that's not the case. >> you know that is not true. the catholic church, the catholic bishops, the right to life says, public funding for abortions is in this bill. >> let michal a tie call a time.

i suspect that pass or not passed, this debate continues. >> very strong disagreements. mike pence is an honorable man. i look forward to this debate. i hope we ratchet down the conversation. when two of our colleagues are spat on and hurled racial slurs, it is time to ratchet down things. >> i was in selma with john lewis, if what's reported to have happened was reported is contemptible, i denounce it in the strongest sterms. this debate will not end today. >> the measure heads back to the senate if health care wins passage today. a conversation with democratic senator, dianne feinstein and republican senator, orrin hatch. we all want ) to stay active. we don't want anything... ...to slow us down. but even in your 30s...

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made with pure cane sugar and stevia. ♪ finally, all the sweetness of nature and just 5 calories a packet. ♪ nature gave us the recipe; we just gave it a name. new sun crystals all-natural sweetener. two natural wonders. one sweet taste. if house democrats muster the votes today, two things happen. the senate verlgs sion of healt care reform will be ready for the president to sign into law. second, house democrats will pass a fix-it bill, to correct the things they don't like about the senate measure. that bill has to go to the senate. if the senate goes the easy route, they will pass the fixes

without change and send it off to the president. if the senate changes anything, adds or subtracts from the house measure, it must go back to the house for another vote before it goes to the president. senate republicans have some options which could delay or change the bill, including parliamentary challenges to any part of it as unrelated to the budget. we will do our best to get answers on what comes next from senators orrin hatch and dianne feinstein right after the break.

as we explained, even if the health care reform bill wins passage in the house today, it has another legislative hurdle to clear, back to the senate for fixes or changes that house democrats want. dianne feinstein and orrin hatch are joining us today. senator hatch, i noticed that you said it would be nuts for anyone to believe that this is the house's last word on this. you think the senate will change the fix-it bill that is coming over to you? >> they would have to. there is a social security component. you can't do that on reconciliation.

there is also an appropriations component as well. so if the parliament tearian upholds that and joe biden doesn't overrule them, which would be a first, it seems to me this will have to be sent back to the house. so anybody that thinks this is only going to be a one-time deal today in the house, i think, is grossly mistake en. >> senator feinstein, do you think it is possible for the senate to take that bill and go, okay, fine with us? >> yes, i do. i think that's exactly what we will do. i really disagree with my friend and colleague. i believe there are at least 51 votes there. i think the bill has been carefully vetted with the parliameparl parlment taryian. the reconciliation bill comes over to us.

we will begin debate on tuesday. it will be posted. take some time. begin debate on tuesday. now, i'm sure what senator hatch's party will do is submit a whole host of amendments. we will have a major vote-a-thon. i believe at the end, more than 51 democrats will hold firm and will pass the reconciliation bill and we will have health care reform. i can say for my stay, the reconciliation bill is very important. we have now 8 million people without any insurance in california. the number has gone up 1 million people a year for the last two years. this bill is necessary. >> senator hatch, i want to ask you about the vote-a-thon but first i want to play something senator reed said recently. >> we nare in the last minute o play.

the shot clock is turned off. the other side knows what the outcome will be. they are trying to foul us and foul us and foul us again just to keep the klos from reading zero. they north just delaying the inevitable, they are delaying the imperative. >> are you going on after the shot clock is dead? senator feinstein calls it a vote-a-thon. is the republican approach to delay the inevitable? >> not really. i think it is to get amendments passed that are valid amendments. if you have a social security component, it has to come back to the house. who knows. i don't know what the parliamentarian is going to do. as i walk around this country, and i've been all over the country, people come up to me from everywhere saying, we can't afford this, we can't do this. we do not have solid, final score on this.

the actuary at c.m.s. said he cannot get the final scoring. they don't include the doc fix in it. that doesn't even take care of medicaid. of the 31 million people that it's going to cover, 16 million are pushed into medicaid. let me tell you, we are coming to a europeanzation of america. the american people feel it. the doc fix they have on medicaid, here is a letter from my governor saying now for two years they will hold the states free. then, they brought the clip, because they cannot afford to pay for it in the federal government. medicaid, they are paying -- the doctors are getting 66% of what the private sector pays doctors. they are up in arms. they are not going to take patients now. you can imagine how bad this is going to be if this bill goes

through. >> senator feinstein, do you worry about unintended consequences or changes in the economy that could, in the end, if this is made into law, really ruin some aspects of health care? >> of course. this isn't the perfect bill. we all know that. >> that's for sure. >> we all know there are going to have to be fixes down the road just as every major program has had, medicare has had, social security will likely have, because of the explosion of costs. having said that, you have to look at the basics. the basics are that we pay far more than european nations do for health care. they have a much better performance. we are about 15% france. 10% in an overall performance by the world health organization. france is ranked number one. we are ranked, i think, 17. we spend a lot of money but we

don't nestle spend it in the right way or the right places. let me just finish. this bill is really important, because if we don't pass it now, you can forget health care reform forever after, i believe. so this is the opportunity. we are right at the goal line. i believe it is going to pass the house. it will be signed by the president. we should pass a reconciliation bill. i would really appeal to my friend, senator hatch. let this reconciliation bill get passed. then, you can see. if it is wrong, you will certainly say so. if it works, hopefully, you will say so as well. >> we'll get your answer after this. i have to take a break. we will find out if you listened to her appeal right after this. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up, i want to take him on his first flight. i want to run a marathon. i'm going to work with kids. i'm going to own my own restaurant. when i grow up, i'm going to start a band.

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we are back with two top senators, democrat dianne feinstein and republican orrin

hatch. >> republicans are dedicated against this bill. we consider it an awful bill. do you realize, they are going to subsidize families of four that make over $80,000 a year? we are getting to where 50% of the people in this country are going to depend on subsidies. i know diane can't agree with that or doesn't believe in that. all i can say is, everywhere i go, people say, how do we pay for this? in all honesty, they have jacked up the costs of medicare. they are going to take better than $500 billion out of medicare. they are going to increase taxes by over $500 billion. they are going to sock it to individuals who can't afford to buy insurance. they will have to pay 2.5% of their gross income. businesses are going to have to pay for employees if they don't provide health insurance. who is going to pay for all this? it is going to come down to us

taxpayers. >> you said earlier that there were things that worried you about the bill. what worries you the most? is there anything that he says that you think, yeah, that is a worry of mine? >> the bill is a combination of a number of different things, designed to cover more people. the bill has very big strong points. for example, right away, there is a $5 billion fund for people with pre-existing conditions who can't get health insurance today. >> we are both for that. >> that's a very positive thing. >> sure. >> so the bill, when really accumulated, the congressional budget office says, will save over 10 years $138 billion. orrin will say, it is not this, it is not that, it is not the other thing. that's the fact we go on when we assess a bill. over ten years, this bill, i'm

confident, will not cost more. now, as i said, are there certain parts that may have to be tweaked that don't work exactly right? the thrust of the bill is to provide people with coverage. it reduces the nonpremium cost for those 85% of people that have medical health insurance. it deureduces it from 20% to 15o that more nonany wimoney will g health care. >> politically, it should be hard to argue, should this bill pass? we think it will given the numbers. people are now going to be not thrown off their insurance because they got sick. there will be no more caps. there will be help for people down the road for people to help

subsidize that. how can you argue against that? >> i am not arguing against that. i think republicans certainly we could agree on a large percentage of things together. there was no effort to get us involved. all i can say is this, everywhere i go, i've said it over an over, people say, how are you going to pay for this? how do you pay for it? the actuary for the administration says the cost curve will not be bent, the premiums are going to go up. i have to say that i believe that cbo, they have to decide these budgetary matters based upon the papers given to them by the house of representatives and sent nat, those papers are stacked in favor of trying to live within our means but they don't. the fact is that they double count in this bill. they have all kinds of other gimmicks in this bill. they are trying to get this bill down to where everybody know that is this extrapolated over ten years is going to be $2.5

trillion more on top of $2.4 trillion. you cannot tell me this country can afford to do that and that we can't find a way by working together to really come up with a health care system that will work and work within financial means. >> i'll give you the last short word. are you comfortable with the cost of this bill? >> yes. >> and comfortable the country can afford it? >> yes. i believe we can. i believe that will be sorted out over time. i think there is one thing that isn't in the bill, that the president was good enough to take my bill, which would give the secretary of health an human services, some control over the rate of premiums to i have been su they are reasonable for people who have private sector insurance. the parliamentarian said that could not be added to the bill. you have 8,000 policies jack up

premiums up to 39% in california and saying there may be another increase in the middle of the year. people are being pushed off of their health insurance because of the cost of premiums. this is one thing we need to strengthen in my view and hopefully will as a separate piece of legislation. >> i can't thank you both for comi coming. i appreciate it. more of this on the senate floor next week. up next, why, despite the claims of some politicians, it is hard to say how most americans feel about the health reform bill. donna brazile and ben bennett o the potential fallout for democratic and republican lawmakers up for. >> has the great taste of yoplait, plus antioxidants, plus fiber and probiotics, plus calcium and vitamin d. this new yoplus gives me pro+active nutrition.

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garlique's clinically tested ingredient maintains healthy cholesterol naturally. eat right. exercise. garlique. our american dispatch looks at a central question. how do americans feel? >> the american people are saying stop. they are screaming at the top of their lungs. >> are they? two polls released this week leave lots of room for debate. a poll released thursday asks, do you favor offer oppose the current bill? only 38% said they favor it. is minority leader boehner right? is it better to pass the obama plan or keep the current system? the respondents were split. is it in the way the question is

asked. are more people more likely to support it when it is called the obama plan or is it that people think some change is better than no change. you be the judge. we will sort through the complicated c complicated politics after a short break.

joining me here in washington, donna brazile and host of morning america, bill bennett, author of the new book "a century returns." the politics of all this. john larson, head of the democratic caucus says, they have got the 216. done deal. goes over to the senate. diane fi dianne feinstein confident it is going to be law. how does this play out politically? i want to play two things the president said yesterday. first, there was in. >> i am actually confident. i v talkhave talked to some of individually. it will be the smart thing to do

politically. i believe that good policy is good politics. >> okay, now, about two minutes later, he had this to say. >> now, i can't guarantee that this is good politics. every one of you know your districts better than i do. >> so i'm thinking we are not sure how the politics are going to play out. >> he didn't contradict himself. he said, i believe this will be good politics because it is good policy but i can't guarantee it. i think it is good politics because it is good policy. you would not have so many nervous democrats if this looked like it was really good politics. i don't think it is. i think when we see how this plays out, one play will be in november with the mid-term elections. another play, we'll see what happens with budget issues.

since misrepresentations are all over the plays in thce in this , you look at a state like massachusetts, i think they are going to regret it. be careful what you wish for, because you may get it. >> what the white house and democrats are counting on, after this assignment to law, people are going, oh, i won't be thrown off that. there argue is, they don't know what is in this bill. is that going to work? >> only 15% of voters understand what's inside the bill. we have been talking about the pie crust and not what's in the filling. i think as soon as they understand that children with p pre-existing conditions will not be kicked off their policies, as soon as they learn the details of this proposal, they will become very comfortable with it. we all know that the price that the american people will pay if congress fails to act is that

their premiums will continue to rise. $10,000 over the next 15 years. this is good policy, good politics, good for the american people, good for the economy. there is no reason for democrats to run away from this. >> you don't think democrats are going to lose seats this november because of the health care bill. >> democrats will lose seats. republicans will lose seats, simply because there are open sites that will no longer go into the democratic column. >> not because of health care? >> health care. some democrats might lose because the voters are tied to that democrats and may be tied to republicans too. i don't think we should judge this bill based on who will win and who will lose if we are doing what's right for the american people and taxpayers. this is a good approach to trying to solve a long-standing problem in this country. >> that's how the president sold it. don't do this on politics. do it because it is the right thing to do. >> courage is the secret to democracy. do the courageous thing.

some members have heard, do what my conscious tells me. we shall see. hold the tape, this tape. democrats will loose seats on th this. if this turns out to be profoundly good policy, save that tape for that too. i will say to so. look what happened in massachusetts. you only had 4% uninsured. this opened the flood gates. you have states like texas and california with 25% and 30% uninsured. this could bust the budget and hurt the country. >> what's disengenu ouchlt s about this is that others will see their premiums toin rise. if republicans would like to

somehow another defend 39% increase in health care costs, children getting kicked off their policies because they have asthma, let them go out. democrats will defend the substance of this and let the politics play out if you don't in november. >> obamacare and doing nothing are not the only options. lots of other plans and ideas are never allowed scoring by cbo. we may revisit it in the future. is health care the election issue? it is the economy and the jobs, people feeling secure about their livlyhood. this is a plan that will cover 32 million additional americans and reduce deficit. $1.2 trillion. this is good policy.

republicans who are concerned about the deficit like democrats and independents should get behind this bill. >> so it will be this. is this the election year issue or is it jobs? >> it is a big part of it. jobs are a big part of it. there is a larger thing do, washington, and discrust trust government? a majority of us said we were opposed to this, we really don't like this. when the costs start coming in and they count the doctor fix which will put this in deficit, they will see more cost to the government and higher taxes to the democrat. bad policy. >> let me quote janet jackson. what have you done for me lately? nothing on jobs, nothing on health care. the american people like to vote for something, not just against something. >> they will have the chance. the democrats will rule on this and probably get it and then

they will own the store. >> we are going to still love you. >> i hope so. >> the lovefest will still continue. >> ahead, john king is back here for a sunday chat about his new show. ♪ [ male announcer ] every business day, bank of america lends nearly $3 billion dollars to individuals, institutions, schools, organizations and businesses in every corner of the economy. ♪ america. growing stronger. every day. ♪ every day. ♪ well, look who's here. it's ellen. hey, mayor white. how you doing? great. come on in. would you like to see our new police department? yeah, all right. this way. and here it is. completely networked. so, anything happening, suz? she's all good.

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health care reform, thousands are expected to gather here in the nation's capital to call on president obama and congress to take up immigration reform. north dakota's red river is expected to crest today. several hundred thousand bags have been placed along the river's banks to keep the water at bay. so far flooding has not been as bad as fear. two weeks after parliamentary elections in iraq, the vote remains too close to call. nuri al maliki wants a manual recount. he says he is asking it for it to preserve the integrity of the voting. and israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu says his government will not stop building more jewish settlements in disputed east jerusalem. announcement of the move during a visit by joe biden has called a strain in u.s./israeli relations. the obama administration says

additional settlements will undermine the palestinian peace process. those are your top stories on "state of the union." up next, john king, the man who used to sit in this very room, will be here for a preview of his new show. with 4g from sprint, i can download files up to 10x faster than 3g... outside. i can stream the movie "airplane" to my cell phone... at the airport. i can have a crystal-clear videoconference with my clients... ...muffin basket or something... ...while working offsite, or share five high-speed connections for online gaming... while enjoying the great outdoors. [ video game sound effects ] eat it, yoshi! what can you do with 4g? [ male announcer ] experience 4g from sprint. it's more than a wireless network. deaf, hard-of-hearing and people with speech disabilities, it's a wireless revolution. access www.sprintrelay.com.

the union" will want to watch john king's new broadcast, "john king usa" a program with a distinctive look and feel, but this guy. you will be following this all next week. >> that's true. >> and probably the week after. >> and the week after. >> john larson says they got the votes. do they. >> one of the deputy whips this

morning said not quite. i believe, you know how this works, we will see, as they are casting the votes there will be three or four people standing in a cluster over here, three or four over there, they will be talking to the whips and the leadership sources. and a few said, madam speaker, if you need me, i will vote yes, but i would like to keep my job and vote no. there is always a bit of trading at the end. and you have had a fascinating discussion about it this morning, this becomes a washington conversation from now to november, and then more importantly an american conversation between now and november. this mid term election season, sometimes we say this is not about anything, this is about something huge. >> it's amazing. you could hear the campaigns revving up sitting here. tell me about the show. first of all, i did watch it online when you did your soft -- what do they call it soft rollout or whatever that is? tell me about it. like, the feel is you're going for and what you're hoping to

do. >> on the set, we're trying to be more relaxed and casual. a little more personal. all my things are on the set. you will see campaign buttons i've collected, a couple of family park signs, red sox logos. >> surprising. >> it's like trying to bring somebody in your home in a relaxed way to have more open and candid television. i love what you have done with this space on sunday. but the mission of the program is to do -- take where you start here on sundays, and then project it out in the country. when these guys talk about we're on the side of the american people, let's see if the house and senate pass this bill if the american people feel that way between now and november. we'll go to their communities. we'll watch the debates. this is one of the things in washington that can seem like it's an all-washington confrontation. health care reform effects everybody. 309 people in the united states of america will be affected one way or another by this bill whether they like it or not. let's cover the big debates here

in washington but connect them to the impact out in the country. >> when i looked at it online, it was -- it seems like you're going more for that conversational. not your evening news broadcast. is that the feel of it? >> that's right. it's a news program, not a traditional newscast. we want it to be a community, conversation, not cable conflict. if you want to come n you can be on the far left or far right, but come in to have a conversation about what's in the bill. object to the specifics of the policy we're discussing, not because you're a democrat, i'm a republican, we will yell at each other. we will reach out to people who don't live, breathe, eat, sleep politics in washington, d.c. but maybe they're tea party people, new faces who are organizing the conservative community. the same is on the left. as you know, one of the fascinating questions in this campaign, republicans have the intensity now,