about the allegations, response seemed to address the lawyers, not their charges. has the company had any specific response to the document? >> you know, it's all in statements, campbell. we got a second statement acknowledging the service bulletins for the 2002-2003 camrys. they were saying that there was a delay and then a surge. the problem fixed through warranty. the government at the time didn't find any safety issue. the company did not respond, campbell, when we asked about the cause of that surge which by this document appeared to be electronic. >> all right. drew griffin tonight. thanks very much. that's going to do it for us. "larry king live" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com tonight, michael moore in his first prime time interview since calling the health care reform bill horrible, a joke, arguing that tens of thousands will still die. what's he saying now?

only hours away from it's being signed into law enforcement plus, the man interrupted by the words baby killer. >> baby killer! >> representative bart stupac is here. did the anti-abortion democrat forever alienate some in the anti-abortion community by voting yes on the bill? >> both sides will do well to remember the dignity of the house. >> next on "larry king live." good evening, i'm wolf blitzer sitting in for larry. michael moore is with us. he is the oscar and emmy award winning documentary director films include "capitalism: a love story." he is an activist, best-selling author and good guest here on "larry king live." michael, thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me on, wolf. happy birthday to you. >> thank you very much. all the web universe news.

>> the whole world now knows. >> we've been celebrating all day. and if i am correct, you're just three years away from being able to take part in that socialized medicine that we have. >> let's hope that doesn't go forward. let's talk a little bit about this medicine and health care reform. >> talk about -- i'm talking about medicare. >> let's talk a little bit about what has now happened. history has happened, as you know. we spoke not that long ago. you didn't love this bill, to put it mildly. but you wanted everyone to vote for it. it is now about to become the law of the land with president obama's signature tomorrow morning. it will be the law of the land. what do you think? >> well, i think great. as i said on your show last week, i wanted people to vote for this in congress. but i'm saying that with many, many reservations. i believe this bill is two steps forward and one giant step

backwards. the two steps forward are a number of really good things in this bill in term of six months from now insurance companies won't be able to deny children coverage because of a pre-existing condition. and by the way, insurance companies, if you just happen to be listening, why don't you just start tomorrow? why you would deny a child health coverage because they had a pre-existing condition? i mean seriously. how inhumane can you be? the other good thing about this bill is that kids will be able to stay on their parents' health plan, assuming the parents have one, until they're 26 years old. that's a really good thing. >> there's other positives that everyone seems to support. if you get really sick, there's not going to be a cap on how much the insurance companies can pay. they're going to have to pay whatever it costs to get you healthy. >> not exactly true, wolf. that's -- there will be an

annual cap for the next four years. so, in other words -- >> eventually, when the legislation fully takes effect. >> yes. correct. in 2014, after another 30,000 or 40,000 people died as a result of not being able to get the health care they need, it will be the law of the land. so way to go. >> what don't you like about this bill? >> the worse thing about the bill is that our health care system in this country remains in the hands of private profit making insurance companies who stand between us and the doctors. these companies are still going to be calling the shots. they are still going to -- this system will still be structured to pose the question every single day in every single waiting room, every single hospital room, what's in it for me, say the health insurance companies. s where the profit? or how can we make sure that we don't lose too much money off this poor, sick person?

>> as you know, president obama -- >> that question is still going to be answered. >> president obama never wanted to remove the private health insurance companies. he always said from day one when he was a candidate and since becoming president that if you like the health insurance plan you have, you're happy with it, you're going to be able to keep it. >> that attitudes feeds to if i'm okay, it's good for everybody else. he positioned that the wrong way. to be honest, when you say he ran as a candidate that way, actually, when he first was running for senate, he said that he thought a single payer system was the best system. >> right. he always said that if he had to create one from scratch, and this goes way back, he would have done. that but given the realities of the world today, he said that was a nonstarter. >> not way back.

yeah, yeah. if he could start from scratch, here's the great thing about if you get elected president of the united states, leader of the free world, you actually can start things from scratch. you can actually walk in there and say, you know what? this is a better way to do this. abe lincoln did it. roosevelt did it. kennedy did it. a lot of people have come up with crazy ideas like, hey, nine years we'll have a man on the moon. it's like -- and then they have the leadership to get everybody rallied around that and say, yeah, let's go for it. >> he didn't say, when he was a candidate for president he supported the so-called single payer system. and he -- >> that's right. >> he even walked away from what a lot of liberals and progress woifz have liked as that so-called public option. that's not included in this new law. >> that's correct. so for everybody who's watching, please understand this -- we do not have universal health

care in this country tonight as a result of this bill. ? fa in fact, we don't have any real overhaul of our health care system. we had a profit making system based on capitalist principles before this bill was passed. and we have the same thing now after that bill is passed. >> except for one thing -- michael, 32 million americans who today don't have access to health insurance, they will have access to health insurance. there may be another ten million who wouldn't. you have to admit over the next few years, bringing 15 million americans into the health insurance system is a good thing. absolutely. 32 million people will have access to health care, not health care. in other words, there will be a system set up where a goodly number of them are going to have to write a check to those profit making companies who must be just -- you know, it's funny. all day to day, wolf, on the

talk show and cable news and whatever, i haven't seen any of the ceos from the health insurance companies on their talking about how horrible this bill is for them. because ultimately, it isn't. they're going to make billions more now because we just mandated millions of more customers for them. >> let me finish your point. so 32 million, that's good. 15 million still won't have that access. and so that means so many thousands of people are going to die each year. they've been given a death sentence, these 15 million that still are not going to have it. >> we're going to give 32

million women the vote. but, mike be happy about that. 32 million women get to vote now. it's like, no. i wouldn't be happy about that. >> but you are happy. you are happy that president will sign this into law. the alternative, you say, would have been a disaster. we'll pick up that thought when we continue, "larry king live."

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how about a coastal soup and grilled shrimp salad combination? or maybe our new savory shrimp jambalaya. seafood lunches starting at just $6.99 at red lobster. michael, if this had failed fshgts president of the united states had failed to get this health care reform bill through the house and the senate, he's going to sign it into law tomorrow morning here in washington. what would have that meant for his presidency? >> what i think would have -- probably would have paralyzed him. probably would have had a hard time getting anything done. i think a lot of people, including myself who hoped it

would pass did so not just because of the good things that were in this bill, but also because a loss at this point after working on this for over a year would probably mean for the rest of this congressional session wasn't going to be able to get anything through. >> who do you credit? there was only a few week ago when scott brown the republican from massachusetts won that senate seat, deprived the democrats of their 60-seat super majority in the senate. it looks to a lot of observers out there that this was dead. who turned it around? >> the people. the people out there. the people of america. the members knew how they felt about this. you know, i had a interesting poll on cnn. on the service, most americans are against this bill, 59%. but when they ask the second and third questions, why you are against the bill, it turned out that about 13% of those opposed are opposed because they thought the bill wasn't liberal enough.

so when you strip that away, you have a majority of americans, 52%, who either supported the bill in the present form or thought the bill should have gone farther. >> that same poll, by the way, i just want to add, that same poll showed that 47% thought that their families health care would now be worse off than before the bill. but that was -- this poll was taken before the roll call last night on the floor of the house of representatives. >> yeah. look, i think change is hard. but i'll tell what you is harder are the millions of people, 47 million, who have to suffer through not having insurance and then the millions of others who do have insurance but never really read the policy. until they get sick or have a really bad situation happen in their family and then the insurance company goes all out to try to not pay the bill or to have it only have half measures taken when people need treatment. this is a really, really -- >> what does it say you to, michael, that so many of the opponents on the conservative

side, on the right-wing, far right not even so much on the far right they were saying this is socialism or even socialism. one congressman from california say it was soviet style socialism in the floor debate yesterday. congressman nunez of california. yet, the stock markets today, wall street reacted just fine, including some of the health insurance companies, the pharmaceutical companies, the hospitals, the private hospitals. >> oh, yeah. >> they seem to -- >> you bet they did. >> wall street said, not so bad. >> not so bad. exactly. free money is coming down the pike, boys. you know? of course, wall street is very happy about this. when they talk about this being some kind of evil communist, soviet medicine or whatever, where did helping those who are sick and who are poor become such an evil thing to do? when people speak out against holding our handout to those who are the have notes, aren't they

rae really speaking out against christianity, judaism, buddhism, just about every faith actually demands that we take care of those would are the least among us? so i don't know -- i don't know what they're smoking on the republican side of the aisle. but it's laughable. but it's actually tragic when you listen to their vile, hateful speech that comes out of them. >> i think the deepest concern not only from the right but from many others is the cost of this. and we're going to talk about that. where is all this money going to come from to insure another 32 million americans? we'll continue our conversation with michael moore right after this. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 if it was up to me?

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michael moore is still with us. the president is ready to sign the legislation into law. the big concern from so many americans is how much is this going to cost? given the huge deficit, annual budget deficits, national debt. some of the money will come from medicare, the growth of medicare. there will be some reduction in that growth to the tune over the next ten years of half a trillion dollars. less money for medicare than would have gone without this legislation. do you have a problem with that, michael? >> first of all, if this is done right and if they make the bill stronger in the years to come, we're actually going to spend

less. we spend $7,000 per american on health care. the second number two country is canada. and they're a little over $3500. half of what we spend. but we won't get there until we have a public option or senator -- representative allen gracen's bill, congressman from florida where he's proposing a bill he's going to introduce. and basically, i love how we have to count the pages of the bill now. if there are too many pages, that is a lot of reading. >> it gets confusing. let me interrupt you -- >> wait. he's proposing a medicare, medicaid buy in where we can -- any citizen can buy that as their insurance policy instead of going to united health care or some other ripoff company. so when we have real health care reform like that, the price of everything is going to come down. and i think that if they would also strengthen the preventative measures for health care in this

country and we all, including myself, took better care of ourselves, we would find cost of all of that going down. >> does this do -- >> and live longer like the canadian dozen. >> does this new law do anything to cut medical expenses? >> well, no. actually the individual -- the premiums are still going to go up. the cost of all this is going to continue to go up. for the individual, for company, small business, whoever is buying insurance. health insurance companies are still setting the rates. and the weak regulation that's in this bill isn't really going to control them. so until we take them out of the equation and let me tell you something, they're not going to be threatened at all by this. i love the punishment factor in this. you know, the one part of this bill where if an insurance company does deny you medical care because you have a pre-existing condition, their fine is $100 a day per person.

that's it. so, of course, they're going to weigh, gee, should i pay for this $700,000 operation he needs or take the fine of $100 a day? they're going to take the fine. these are thieves and jeckles. they have no business being around people who are ill and who need help. the question should never be asked how much are we going to make off this? or how much are we going to save? that has got to stop. >> isn't that basic, the nature of american capitalism? >> yes, it, is wolf. that's why this economic system we have is broke, bankrupt, corrupt, it's unfair. it's not just. and we need a more democratic economic system where the people have more of a say in what's going on. and the richest 1% don't control the whole thing. >> we'll talk about your member of congress, you're from flint, michigan, mark stupac, we'll talk about him and what was

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michael moore, your congressman in michigan, bart

stupac, a democrat. i think it's fair to say because he and about half a dozen other anti-abortion democrats decided to vote in favor of the bill last night, there will be health care reform signed into law at the white house tomorrow. how much credit do you give congressman stupac? >> well, did he the right thing. my neighbors and i spent the weekend up here e-mailing him and calling and putting as much pressure on him as we could. so i think that he heard us. it was one of these rare instances where a politician actually listens to his constituents. and he did the right thing. i think he made a very brave speech. i realize he has a lot of personal religious feelings about this. i understand those feelings. i was texting him from mass the

other day. our religious feelings are supposed to be private and not imposed on other people. good for him for standing up for what he believes in. he's not there for bart stupac. >> he's going to be on the show in the next segment. what will you say to him? you have an opportunity. i'm sure he's listening right now. >> i think i would say to him, thank you for doing the right thing. don't do this again. don't put us through this again. i think bart stupac has had moments where there are moments of courage where he stood up against the nra in northern michigan. this is a gun owner's paradise up here. and he's a former state trooper in michigan. but he knows right from wrong. i think that he did the right thing here. i'm proud of him for doing that.

>> you heard another republican on the floor, he shouted out he says "it's a baby killer" although we only heard the words "baby killer" when he seemed to be directing the comments directly at congressman stupac. it's getting pretty ugly here, this whole debate, especially if you heard the slurs that were expressed outside of the congress during some of the protests over the weekend. it's pretty ugly out there. >> well, yeah. i think that -- look, the right-wing has been in power for, you know, been in power for the last eight years and president obama and the democrats have had it now for over a year. they're upset. they would like to be back in power. you know, they like to start wars. they like to bankrupt a country. they like to control women's uteruses. that's their gig. so they're upset. i don't blame them. let's keep them out of office as long as possible because we don't need any more of what we

went through through the bulk of this decade. we need to move forward in the 21st century. we need to treat each other better and whenever we hear this kind of racism, especially, the congressman who was spat upon, these sorts of things we must all stand up and speak out against it. >> one final question. you recently wrote an open letter saying you would be a good white house chief of staff and rahm emanuel should maybe move along to the sidelines. you should take over. do you still feel like that? >> no. i'm not saying he should. i heard that they may be getting rid of somebody there. if they were, i'd be willing to come and do the job. i think president obama needs somebody in there getting him up at 5:00 in the morning. i'll do the job. i only want $1 a year and a could the in the white house. i'll get him pumped and ready to fight every day. get to capitol hill and get this stuff done. i mean this is -- what part of an overwhelming victory do the democrats not understand? the american people sent them there to do a job not to cower

and be afraid of republicans or hold out their hand and sing. this is time now to get these things done for the people. we've got millions who are unemployed. we've got the second economic crash about to happen because we haven't put one rule in place since the last crash. and we have gained real unive e universal health care in this country. tease are jobs that have got to get done. i'm willing to do my part. i'm asking every other american to do their part to get behind this president. he's got a good heart. he's a decent person. and he just needs the fight in him. he needs to know we've got his back. >> we'll see if you get that call from the president asking to come in. he's probably got a cot over there. we'll see what happens. michael moore, always a pleasure speaking with you. thanks very much. >> thank you very much, wolf. i appreciate it. >> michael moore, oscar and emmy winning documentary director, filmmaker and activist, best-selling author. bart stupac has taken a lot of abuse over the past few months.

with the baby killer shouts last night immediately directed at him? he's here on "larry king live." i'd like one of those desserts and some coffee.

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wachovia, wells fargo, and you. together we'll go far. representative bart stupac

is a democrat from michigan who said he would not support the health reform bill. but he ended up voting for it after working on an arrangement with the white house on abortion. motions ran pretty high during last night's debate in the midst of congressman stupac's remarks, another congressman called out the phrase baby killer or it's a baby killer. watch the drama unfold. and listen very closely. >> those who were shouting out are out of order. >> baby killer. >> mr. speaker -- >> congressman stupac is here. did you hear those words that were shouted out? they were clearly directed at you. >> and they were very clear on the floor, yes. >> what did you hear? >> baby killer. >> did you hear the word baby killer or it's a baby killer? >> baby killer. >> just baby killer. >> yes, it's a baby killer, you

didn't hear the words it's and a? the republican of texas, he issued a statement today saying what he said wasn't baby killer directed at you. he was referring to the legislation that it's a baby killer. he called you, right? >> yes, he called me and talked to me on the floor. we had votes tonight. i talked to him there on the floor. >> what did he say? >> he apologized and said it wasn't directed at me personally. i told him then it must be other members. therefore, you owe the house of the representatives, the rest of the members an apology. i mean you have to keep proper decorum and demeanor on the floor. we're supposed to be professionals. i know emotions run high. you have to keep yourself under control. >> he firmly believes this legislation, he says, is a baby killer. he gave an interview to one of our affiliates in texas. i think we have a clip. let me play this. >> i just called congressman stupac today and let you know

that my remarks were not directed you to personally. that they were about the policy that was unfolding. i said i was very disappointed in the vote where we had a government take over health care. and that was particularly disturbed with the fact that we were somehow brokering a deal with the white house where we put the lives of unborn children in jeopardy. i just told him, i said i was speaking passionately. some people thought i was directing the remarks at him. i wanted him to be assured that i was not directing those remarks at him. >> you don't buy that though? >> no. i don't buy it. he didn't -- you know, he did apologize. he said it wasn't directed at you. first of all, legislation is not a baby killer legislation. he never mentioned those facts when he talked to me or on the phone or on the floor. so, i mean, the executive order that president obama will sign once he signs this legislation makes it very clear the current law, to hide restriction does not apply to this -- it applies

this new act. it protects the sanctity of life. when george bush was in, they had stem krl research. all proet life groups and everybody applauded it and said it was wonderful and how great it is. we have the same thing, an executive order to preserve life. now it is signed by president obama. and suddenly it's not worth the paper it's written on? it's a baby killer? isn't that a bit of hypocrisy here? >> congressman chris smith of new jersey, republican of new jersey, said that executive order is not worth the paper it's written on. >> why it is worth the paper it's written on when it's george bush who signs it on stem-cell research and now it's not worth anything? no. executive order has a full force of law. and embreonic stem-cell research was a great one. right to life, aploweded it. catholic bishops welcomed it. you know, president obama does

the same thing on the same principle. >> the catholic bishops don't like this legislation that's about to become the law. >> why? is it more political? if we're really protecting life. whether it's stem-cell research or keeping the hyde amendment in here, why is it okay for one president not the other? look, it's obvious, as i said last night on the floor, they're using life to politicize life. let's prioritize life. and that's what this legislation does. the executive order is strong. it's firm. it's very clear. it says the act maintains current hyde amendment restrictions governing abortion policies and extends the newly health insurance exchange much it's very clear. >> they realize because of you and half dozen other democrats who oppose abortion, you went along with this. there will be health care reform without your support it probably wouldn't -- they swront had the 216 votes they needed. >> correct. that's what they're more upset with. it wasn't the principle of life. they just wanted to destroy

health care reform. and i and those other democrats said we must maintain our principle, protect life. we voted for health care in the fall when it came through the house. so we still stayed true to our principles, protect the sanctity of life and provide good, affordable quality health care. >> you're proud? >> yes. >> and you'll be at the white house for that signing? >> yes, tomorrow. >> and have you met the president? you have spoken to the president? >> after we reached the agreement yesterday about 3:00 in the afternoon i spoke to him on the phone. >> what did he say to you? >> i said i'm going to accept your language. thanks for all your hard work on this. now let's get health care passed. i said mr. president i'm going to go vote and we'll vote on it along with my other members who stood with me. >> and you'll be at the white house tomorrow? >> yes. >> how did you feel about michael moore giving you a nice shoutout? >> he should do it a little bit more often. >> he is your constituent. congressman, thank you. >> thank you. is health care reform going to help more than 30 million americans or is it hurting even

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welcome back to "larry king live." i'm wolf blitzer sitting in for larry.

we're talking about health care reform reform and what it really means. ben stein is the economist and best-selling author, a speechwriter for presidents nixon and ford. he's a columnist now at "fortune mag distin magezine." leslie marshal is a democrat who is liberal on most issues. and andrew weil is here. he is director for arizona center for integrative medicine. thanks for coming in. let's do a quick whip around. first, good or bad? right direction? wrong direction? dr. wiel, what do you think? this health care reform that is about to become the law of the land. good or bad? >> this is not health care reform. it's health insurance reform. and that is a good thing. it's a step in the right direction. we desperately need health care

reform which means improving health outcomes, making us a healthier society and getting health care costs down. this bill will do none of that. >> ben stein? >> well, i don't think it's really that bad a deal. i'm not really upset about the language. i think the way it was passed is shocking. there is no identical bill passed by both houses which is a requirement of congress for a bill to become law. they've done around the constitution. i think the contempt for constitutional processes yesterday was stunning. >> we'll get into that. hold on. pen, good or bad for the country? >> i don't think it matters whether it's good or bad. the end does not justify the means. there are no ends. there are only means. and the way it was passed, i agree with ben. it's horrible. if they want to trust the american people to do what we want, they should trust us. they should tell us the truth. there should be some transparency. there shouldn't be back room deals no matter how good it is. >> leslie marshal? >> this is definitely good.

i mean we have children that are going to be born with birth defects in the future who will be covered. that say relief to so many parents. this is a step in the right direction. i would agree with the doctor, it's not a fully health care reform and we need to care more about the health as opposed to the cost when it comes to rev mags of the health care system. but a step in the right direction. >> if you had your way dr. weil, what would you want to see in health care legislation? >> i would like to see a lot more language about prevention, about changing medicine. senator tom harkin of iowa got some of that language in the senate bill. and he's to be commended for that. we need a lot more of that. how can we as a society encourage people to make better lifestyle choices, zis courage them from making worse ones? how can we change medicine so that our health professionals are trained to use lower costs interventions? this is the real problem. how can we bring the cost of

health care down and make our health outcomes better. they're terrible at the moment compared to other developed nations. >> ben stein, let me pick up on your complaint that you like to process how they did it. they've been doing it for 13 months now. went through the senate, house, back and forth, there were committees, all sorts of debates in the committees. and then on the floor, what is so unconstitutional about this legislative process? that's the way the founding fathers wanted it. >> right. article one section eight says you must -- i hope i have the section. it says the bill must be identical passed by both pouhou before it is eligible for signature about it president. >> that's not true. the senate version that passed was passed last night. the identical senate version, they didn't change a word. i was passed before the reconciliation bill came up for a vote. but they passed the senate bill.

>> sir, with all due respect to my friend and birthday boy, there is still a 150 page or more reconciliation bill. >> that is a separate piece of legislation. that's a fix it as they call it. but they did -- the senate version was passed by the house. >> no, sir, you have all my respect, it is not the same version. the same version will be passed when that reconciliation is passed. it's written up and documented very extensively. >> but you know -- i don't want to get into a huge fight about this. but if the senate were to reject the reconciliation bill that, senate bill is the law of the land. it's going to stay on the books. and everyone's going to have to live with that. >> well, they'll stay on the books unless it is challenged by litigation and the supreme court says the bills are not identical. with all due respect, they are not identical or they would not need to pass this reconciliation of the two bills. it is not identical. they can say it's identical. but it's not identical.

>> all right. let me have another constitutional scholar weigh in. >> well, i don't think -- i don't think you have to talk about be a constitutional scholar at all. the fact is that the spirit of this is not honest and on. although i disagree with some things obama has to say and i think i have a lot of disagreements, i believed him when he said that he was going to be transparent in this and there were going to be five days that bill would be in front of people before he signed it. there were all sorts of promises of no taxes. there were 14 taxes in this bill that have been added in. and i don't think it was done with the idea of we're just talking to the american people honestly about this. it just seemed -- it just seems sleazy. even if it is constitutional, man, it doesn't feel like change and a fresh breath and transparent. >> all right, we'll pick up with leslie and dr. weil when we come back. it's great. i eat anything that i want.

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ac360. it is world water day, and we have a blog about just how much water we use. go to larry king.com to see how

much you use. and the dog bounty hunters tells us about the mistakes he has made all on larry king. let's see ewhat is coming up at the top of the hour? >> well, what comes next now that the insurance bill or the reform bill passed the house. we are keeping them honest and the fact and fiction and outright lies from politician on both sides. the 360 interview is with the man at the abortion storm and why he switched to a yes vote on the bill and what he thinks about somebody yelling "baby killer" while he was speaking last night. we le speak to him about that. >> and will passing reform be the turning point for the democrats and president obama or political suicide? depends upon who you talk to, wolf. back to you. >> thank you, anderson. you heard ben stein come pl plain about the

constitutionality of this bill, and penn gillette was not happy about the transparency of it, so what do you think? >> well, i don't care about the flavor, because that won't work in the court of law, and moes of the lawsuits and the lawyers, themselves, and the most of them who work for constitutional law will be thrown out. when you talk about transparency, the first time the president with both sides and legislators on both sides talked about health care and the president would constantly say, that is not true. this is what is true. so when we talk about the transparency and talk about needing to hear what was in the bill, what was being proposed and what we were going to get and how it started from point a and end to where it is, i feel we did have that. lastly -- >> but leslie, let me interrupt you for a moment, because think they the complaint was that some of the deals worked out for example with the pharmaceutical industry, phrma as it is called,

there were no c-span cameras inside when the white house officials negotiated with the representatives of the pharmaceutical lobby to get their support. >> wolf, i can't -- i can't dedis disagree with that, but whether you are on the left or the right, why are we surprised when politicians play politics. this is what had to happen to get the republicans to the table. this is not a bill with the public option and that is what the democrats wanted and the president wanted and i wanted and that was not going to get the republicans to the table or get the votes to pass it. >> dr. weil, you are a doctor and you want people healthy and get the access to medicine they need and to get the right treatment, and you hear this debate going on, what do you think? >> well, i am happy that more americans will be covered. i'm happy that there is at least an attempt to make it harder for the big insurers to kick people out on the basis of pre-existing conditions. as i said, this is a step in the right direction. i'm not happy with the fact that

this actually increases revenue going to the big pharmaceutical companies and the big insurers and the manufactures of medical devices. i'm not happy that all americans aren't covered. i'm not happy that there is not real attention give nen in this legislation that we can improve our health outcomes and make us a healthier society and shift this massive enterprise of disease management we have in the direction of disease prevention and health promotion. >> we will bring back ben stein and penn gillette right after this.

some crickets may say it is a socialist move a move toward socialism, but ben stein, wall street reacted fine to the passage of health care reform and the pharmaceutical stocks and the hospital stocks and the private insurance company stocks seemed to do just fine. >> well, i think that it is true that a lot of the money is going to be diverted to from the taxpayers to big phrma to the insurance companies to the advanced medical device companies. i don't see what is wrong with that, the pharmaceutical companies and the medical device companies save lives and help people live longer -- >> but i don't mean that. are you buying that this is a step toward socialism? >> if it is a step to socialism, it is a small step. and if i did study law at yale,

i have a tiny credential. >> you know i am one of your big fans. >> yes. >> and we can debate the whole issue of whether the house passed the exact senate version or not, and we will continue that debate on another occasion. >> well, the "wall street journal" may have it completely wrong, and they have it extremely great detail that it is not the same version, but with all due respect, i don't mind the bill that much, and the way it was passed was terrifying. >> i know that you were also valedictorian of your high school, so you grew up fast. >> and at yale, too. >> you are a brilliant guy, with eve -- we have no doubt. >> well, i have no doubt i am not a brilliant guy. i went to clown college and i went to barnum and ringling brothers clown school, and don't you forget it. >> you have a lot of credentials and a great show in vegas.

it is not the end of the world, it is, penn? >> no, i don't agree with michael moore on a lot, but the idea to punish big insurance companies by forcing people to buy their product is a nutty way to take these, these, you know, he calls them thieves and they have been villainized all over and they are being treated pretty well, but what bothers me about this is that i have never seen much that says there's a real surplus of doctors and real surplus of hospitals, and you a bill that brings over 30 million people back into the system, and has nothing in there about getting more doctors and more hospitals. >> well, can we handle these additional 30 million people coming into the health insurance system over the next few years? >> well, we can handle them if we really incentivize people to take care of themselves and be healthier. you know, ben stein said he didn't see what was wrong with diverting more taxpayers' money to big insurers and