>> larry: love you, willie. >> love you, too. >> larry: willie nelson. "american idol" are here monday to talk about "idol gives back." sarah silverman's here, too. right now it's "a.c. 360." thanks very much, larry. tonight, wall street powerhouse goldman sachs accused of fraud suspected of fraud, defrauded investors, concealing the truth about the value of those subprime mortgages that many believe truckered the economic collapse. we're keeping them honest. at the volcano, gary tuchman is in iceland where ash continues to rise into the air causing chaos in the sky. thousands of flights still canceled. airports closed. gary will have a live report head. and the man called dr. death is out of jail, off parole speaking freely about what he did and about what he says other doctors should do. >> i didn't do it to end a life. i did it to end the suffering

the patient's going through. the patient's obviously suffering. what's a doctor supposed to do, turn his back? if he h he's a coward, he is. >> part two of the big "360 interview" with dr. kevorkian. keeping them honest on wall street. many people believe wall street, those big firms and bankers who made millions in bonuses basically do what they want to get rich know matter how and who's hurt and only rarely are they held accountable. told goldman sachs for the most part has escaped blame for the meltdown was accused of fraud. they have only been accused at this point. the s.e.c. says the firm sold toxic bonds to investors that would become worthless within a year. the bonds that goldman sold to investors were picked mainly by a hedge fund that was also betting the subprime mortgage market would collapse. the s.e.c. says goldman never told investors about the hedge

fund and in the end investors were wiped out losing $1 billion. the hedge fund pocketed billions of dollars in profits and goldman picked up millions in fees. the transactions are confusing. i want to bring in our own ali velshi to explain more. >> you're right, it is confusing. let me try and give you a little more light. the hedge fund, the company, paulson and company, no relation to the former treasury secretary. let's replace goldman sachs and these bonds. let's treat goldman sachs as if it were an antique, october car dealer and they're selling '57 chevys. these got these two '57 chevys in the shop on the left and right. they have a few dings. some of the parts are really good, some are not. let's just say that this paulson and company, this hedge fund company we're talking about walks into that dealership and says, i will take this car as long as you take all the bad parts out of it, put it in the other car and take all the good parts out of the other car and put it in this one.

so now what happens is you've got one of these two '57 chevys that's got great parts in it. it's all shiny and new. the other one's battered up and it's got bad parts in it. let's move forward. now the dealership, goldman sachs, this is all what's alleged. nothing's been proven. this is what the sec says. the dealership has sold the one shiny new car. the car with all the bad parts, they shine it up. they make it look like the same car, and they sell it as if it's a good car that's likely to work with a normal amount of good and bad parts. that is what the sec alleges happened, that basically they took this pile of bad stuff and sold it to investors as if it was a stable investment that might have gone up or might have gone down, knowing full well that it was not going to appreciate in value and that someone had done something to that pile of stuff to make it lack value. and that's basically what the allegation is. that goldman sold unworthy stuff to people who were buying it as

if it was a normal investment. and it is those residential mortgage-backed security, those bonds, that you're talking about. >> the money they're accused of making is $15 million. >> very little. >> which for goldman sachs isn't a lot of money. >> i would guess they make more out of their vending machines. the question here is did goldman knowingly sell a bad investment to its unsuspecting investors without saying someone is betting against this investment actively so it is likely to lose value. that's what the question is. >> ali, appreciate it. thanks very much. in a statement goldman sachs called the allegations completely unfounded. matt taibbi joins us. thanks for being with us. matt, you accused goldman sachs of a lot of shady behavior. you say what they're accused of right now is worse than you thought. >> back in the summer i wrote an article. basically i said that goldman was betting against its clients.

at the time all i really knew is that at a certain point in time goldman was short the housing market. they were short mortgage-backed securities. at the same time, they were selling these same sorts of instruments to their clients. this is actually a step worse than that. the allegation here is that they got together with this guy, paulson, and they conspired to basically make a giant ball of crap that they could sell to their investors. this is actually making a bad investment that you can bet against and then unloading it on your clients. >> what's interesting, too, matt, what shocks people on, you know, about this, it's one thing people kind of think, okay, you know, doing things which hurt americans in general, but for wall street firms to actually even hurt their own investors, by people on wall street, it's seen as doubly bad. >> that's why this is going to be incredibly damaging to goldman sachs. it's one thing to have left-leaning commentators picking on them for being unethical or bilking the

government out of billions which they, of course, did in the bailout, this is a different ball game. this is robbing from your own clients. and on wall street, it doesn't get any worse than that. this is going to directly affect our bottom line and the relationships with all of their customers. >> it does seem if it hurts american taxpayers, that's one thing, but they're hurting their investors, so people on wall street are doubly upset. does the sec have a strong case here? >> i've got it tell you, i read the complaint, and it looks very beefy. it does look like they have a very strong case, if they have evidence to support all the allegations that are in that complaint, i would say this is going to be a horse race here. and typically, you know, the sec really blew it with the madoff investigation. they dropped the ball and i think they have a chip on their shoulder. the commission has something to prove here. and by alleging that the golden boys of wall street engaged in this type of fraud, that is very, very significant. >> matt, let me play devil's advocate. if they only made $15 million

off this transaction, goldman, why would they take such a risk, assuming these allegations are true, when right now they're just allegations, but why would they take such a risk for $15 million? that's a lot for any citizen, but on wall street for goldman sachs, you know, for the money they make, that's not that much. >> we don't know the entire story here. i've also heard versions where goldman was also short some of these instruments. so we don't know how much they're making out of it as well. the $15 million figure that you're quoting is just the fees they made off the transaction. we don't know what goldman's actual interest was in this deal. that remains to be seen. >> sunny, is it possible they could say this was the trader who was involve, the one employee's name who sent the e-mails about this and we didn't know, the higher-ups will say they didn't know? >> absolutely. typically that employee is generally fired. i've been looking into it and apparently the employee has not been fired yet. but i have to tell you goldman did release a statement today saying that they also lost $90

million. and they made very good points in their statement. and so they're obviously going to defend this pretty vigorously. >> matt taibbi, sunny houseman, appreciate you both being on. join the live chat at ac360.com. join viewers around america and the world. the ash cloud causing worldwide chaos. it's unbelievable. thousands of flights canceled, airports shut down. a lot of travelers caught in limbo. an erupting volcano in iceland is the cause. and how dangerous is that ash? we'll show you one passenger jet's close call decades ago. first, the smoke filled the cabin, then came to flames. the engines caught on fire. incredible story of survival ahead. and what you don't know about jack kevorkian. the doctor who helped more than 130 people die. he's not sure of the exact number. he joins us with the big "360 interview." a fascinating, candid interview with the man at the center of this life-and-death issue. fast in all its forms.

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dr. scholl's back pain relief orthotics with shockguard technology give you immediate relief that lasts all day long. dr. scholl's. pain relief is a step away. a fiery volcano continues to cause chaos across europe. the eruption has created a massive amount of smoke and ash that airplanes cannot fly through. we'll tell you what happens to plane if they attempt to fly through the danger zone. today across much of europe, some 16,000 flights were branded grounded and nearly 20 countries. can you imagine the chaos that's caused? back in iceland close to the volcano, residents are on edge. gary tuchman is there with a "360 dispatch."

>> reporter: he's a farmer. his family has owned this farm on the southern coast of iceland for 104 years. that's why this is a very traumatizing time. getting closer and closer to his land, as the wind has shichted, a plume of ash billowing larger and larger from the newly active that looms over his farm. the eruption took place under a glacier causing the water under that flashier to flood much of his farm. >> translator: i was really scared. i was shocked afterwards. i was standing here and watched the water come. >> reporter: his family is feverishly building a dike in case more floodwaters pour down the mountain. but it's the approaching v volcanic ash that's flightening so many others in iceland in a little over an hour's drive from the capital. people are sealing their windows and doors in hope the ash doesn't ruin their homes. the deputy is with the local police department. how scary is this for the

community, the eruption of this volcano? >> well, it's pretty serious because it's mostly because the properties of people and their life's work are being possibly being destroyed. >> reporter: the last time this particular volcano erupted was in 1821. over 190 years ago. and those eruptions lasted for about two years. people are sure hoping it doesn't last that long this time. what's happened from this v volca volcano, because it erupted under a glacier, underneath this field. now you're seeing mud, rock and iceballs. so far the damage has been limited to flooding, some buckled roads, there have been no fatalities, no injuries and the people of iceland consider themselves so far very lucky. because the last eruption of this volcano was almost 190 years ago, his family hasn't dealt with something like this. he just doesn't know what to expect. >> translator: i don't know. you don't know. there's no way to know.

>> reporter: what he does know is that this weekend will be tense. >> so gary, what do experts say, i mean, about how long this huge plume cloud of ash is going to be there and cause a threat? >> reporter: these experts know a lot, anderson, but they don't know enough to tell us how long it will last. usually when there are volcanos here in iceland and regularly volcanos in iceland don't last very long. but like i just told you, this volcano in 1821 lasted two years. that could be trouble. and volcanos happened in the 18th century, 9,000 people, a quarter of the population, were killed during the volcano back then. they do not expect fatalities during this but they expect the possibility of property damage. >> it's the worst thing that could possibly happen and possibly causing problems for all of europe. boeing tells us in the past 30 years, more than 90

jet-powered airplanes from v volcanic ash suffered results. randi kaye. >> reporter: this document from "national geographic" recreates the ordeal of a british airways jet caught in a cloud of volcanic ash. june 24th, 1982. flight 9 from london to australia. the radar says expect a smooth flight. but suddenly inside there's reason to panic. >> i noticed that thick smoke was pouring into the cabin through the vents above the windows. >> the acrid smoke was at the back of your throat, up your nose, in your eyes. >> reporter: they are 37,000 feet above the indian oceans when the engines ignite. >> the engine's on fire! >> there were huge flames coming out of the back of the engines, 20, some people said 40 feet

long. >> reporter: in about a minute and a half, all four of the boeing 747's engines fail. >> engine failure. number four. fire action, number four. >> none of us believed it was happening. >> reporter: what captain moody doesn't realize is that he's actually flying flew volcanic ash in indonesia. the ash made up of tiny bits of glass is drawn into the engine. it melts and gloms on to the engine parts instead of passing through. choking the engine to death. >> reporter: the boeing 747 is dropping from the night sky. heading straight for the indian ocean. they are about six miles up. about a half hour from crashing into the sea. >> mayday, mayday, mayday, speed bird 9. we've lost all four engines- >> reporter: captain moody warns the nearly 250 passengers to prepare for an emergency landing. >> i said, "good evening again, ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. we have a small problem in that all four engines have failed

with our utmost to keep them going, i trust you're not in too much distress." >> reporter: passengers begin to accept they may not survive. >> ma, in trouble. plane going down. >> we'll do best for the boys. we love you. sorry, pa. >> reporter: the jet sails through the sky like a glider, still unaware of the ash, the crew glides low enough to escape it. captain moody considers landing in the ocean. but then at 13,000 feet, the crew gets all four engines started again. they had had a chance to cool, and the ash had broken away. one quickly fails again. still, he lands british airways flight 9 safely in jakarta, indonesia. almost 27 years later after his heroic flight, captain eric moody, now retired, tells us it's smart to keep airplanes away from volcanic ash. he wouldn't want to fly through it again. randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> i love how understated the

british pilot was. we have a small problem. all of our engines have gone out. amazing they got through it. check out ac360.com to find the air travels delays. up next, the raw politics of prayer. a court decision on the national day of prayer. a judge says it's unconstitutional, and this year's observance could be one of the last ones. christopher hitchens and tony perkins join me ahead. one on one with jack kevorkian. part two. he admits to helping more than 130 people die to help end their suffering. did you ever -- i mean, do you have nightmares about it? >> no, no. i don't think a doctor should have a nightmare about any medical procedure or else he's not a doctor.

tonight in "raw politics," a federal judge in wisconsin has ruled the national day of prayer as unconstitutional. the judge said the observance which began more than half a century ago violates a law respecting the establishment of religion. judge barbara crabbs says it goes beyond acknowledgment because its sole purpose is to engage scitizens in prayer.

and the white house still plans to recognize the day of prayer on may 6th, but if the judge's ruling stands, it could be the last one. joining me, "vanity fair" editor christopher hitchens and tony perkins, president of the family research council and author of personal faith public policy." the obama administration wants the day of prayer upheld. the justice department is looking for options of appeal. tony perkins is calling for the judge's impeachment. why should this be unconstitutional? it's optional. no one is forced to pray. >> no. that's why the government shouldn't have a word to say about it. that's why it can't be a national day of prayer that has any government sponsorship. it's as plain as anything could be. the first amendment is written with admirable clarity. congress shall make no law. i look out my window and i see i don't know how many churches. anyone can go to them all the time. if you're a muslim, you're supposed to pray five times a day. don't ask me and don't ask the

government to endorse it, okay? >> tony, i quote, many may disagree with that conclusion and some may view it as a criticism of prayer or those who pray. that is unfortunate. a determination that the message itself is harmful, unimportant or undeserving of dissemination. why are you calling for impeachment? >> there's two problems. one, i think this is a case of judicial activism, but also a case of judicial arrogance and ignorance. i mean, first off, this is a district court. district courts are not to set judicial precedent. they're to yield to appellate court precedent or to the supreme court precedent. and clearly, this has been a practice since the very first president of the united states dating back to george washington. so clearly there's a pattern here. there's a history. and she cites the lemon test which is a test that was first adopted in 1970s with regard to school and coercion.

there's no coercion here. people have an opportunity to participate in the national day of prayer. >> but is it really the government's role to be declaring this? i mean, people can pray, as christopher said, all the time. >> people have been praying from the very beginning. i think there's a secular purpose. that's why it goes back to the founders. even some who chris has written about such as madison whose later writings describe him as not being supportive of these calls for prayer. but i think there is a secular purpose because it unites the nation, especially in times of trouble, times of economic downturn, times of war. this has been a practice since the beginning. >> would it unite the nation if it was a day of hindu prayer that was called for or muslim prayer or jewish prayer? >> christopher -- >> let christopher. >> by all means, call me christopher. it is my name. i thought you were a foe of big government. it's a perfectly plain principle. this is not just a government intruding where it doesn't

belong, but it also is establishing -- you know what day of prayer this is. this is a day of prayer for christians. the idea is to import sur r surreptitiously to smuggle through customs, which is a part of your own agenda, is it not? >> christopher, this goes all the way back, as i mentioned, to george washington. the day after both chambers of congress adopted the first amendment before sending it to the people, they called for a day of prayer. they called upon george washington to declare a day of prayer and thanksgiving. it has clearly been from the founders an orientation toward the christian faith. that's why today we still have about 85% of the american people identify themselves as christian. >> even if that was true, it would be a tyranny of the majority in this case. as you know, thomas jefferson and james madison -- >> a judge -- >> well, we're talking about the principle. i don't care which judge it is. whatever judge said this wasn't

constitutional would be correct. >> i don't see how one district judge, how one district judge -- >> you're changing the subject. >> -- somehow had greater wisdom than any president who has led this country in its over 230 years. >> james madison, who is the -- james madison who with thomas jefferson was the author of the original virginia statute on religious freedom that became the first amendment was against even having chaplains in congress or the armed forces. >> that -- no, no, no. christopher, you know that was discovered in writings 100 years after he died. >> what difference does that make? what difference does that make? >> it's totally indidn't. inconsistent. if you let me finish, i'll answer your question. >> tony, to christopher's point -- let me ask you about christopher's point about the federal government involvement in this. a lot of people who don't want

the federal government involved in many aspects of their lives seem to be arguing in favor of this notion the federal government having this national day of prayer. is there -- i mean, is there a certain hypocrisy there? >> what's next? no. i mean, no one is being compelled to pray. no one is being -- government's not demanding -- what happened yesterday was the government compelling you to pay taxes. calling the nation to set aside a day of prayer voluntarily is not compelling anyone to do anything. >> actually -- >> that's what this is about. >> you should know that it's congress that has the power. government. i'm sorry to have to keep telling you. you ought to already know, it's congress. can you tell me where this national day of prayer originated? what date? can you, in fact? >> as it is now? in 1988 is when congress set a date. >> yes. >> but it goes back in terms of having national days of prayer

to george washington and every president since, almost every president since has declared national days of prayer. and as i said, james madison himself did that. >> christopher, why don't the obama administration behind it? >> the obama administration is afraid of being accused by people like your guest, of being secular. it's the same reason why washington and jefferson were forced -- and frankly -- >> the american people have always been. >> i'm very sorry to say, sir, swlsz mr. payne, madison and jefferson had to be very careful to keep their opinions to themselves because your equivalents in those days threatened them with persecution. they were not christian. >> tony, i want to give you the final thought. >> you can be proud of this great tradition. >> look, this is a case of judicial arrogance and ignorance. this is a state-level -- a

district-level court judge who thinks they know better than the 230-plus years of history in this country and is setting precedent. and congress should look into whether or not this judgeimpeac. >> tony perkins, christopher hitchens. sitting down with jack k kevorki kevorkian, out of jail, not apologizin apologizing. a lot of people say you're playing god. >> is a doctor who takes a leg off playing god? >> you're saying doctors play god all the time. >> sure. any time you interfere with a natural premise, you're god. >> dr. kevorkian speaking out about why he fears president obama's safety.

american amanda knox is in an italian prison facing 26 years for the murder of her roommate, but it could get worse for her. why prosecutors want to increase her sentence. first joe johns has a "360 news and business bulletin."

>> a new development from haiti. last night we reported charges had been dropped for nine of ten americans arrested in haiti earlier this year. now haiti's top prosecutor is denying those kidnapping charges have been dropped. he says they will stand until a judge decides whether to proceed to trial. the tenth american missionary remains in a haitian jail. former president bill clinton said antigovernment rhetoric can lead to violence like it did 15 years ago this month with the oklahoma city bombing. he told wolf blitzer that anger directed toward president obama is potentially dangerous. >> he symbolizes the loss of control, predictability, of certainty, of clarity that a lot of people need for their psychic well-being. and i worry about it. look, he's well protected by the secret service. they're terrific. and the president, i can tell you, i've never met a president -- and look, george w.

bush had some threats against him and people who strongly disagreed with his policy. >> mr. clinton says he sees parallels between the mood of the country today and at the time of the oklahoma city attack. toyota is recalling about 600,000 sienna minivans due to corrosion problems on spare tire cables. the automaker says the recall affects 1998 through 2010 models sold in the u.s. that have been operated in cold weather climates. we've always seen pictures of marilyn monroe. what about x-rays? images of the star's chest and pelvis will be up for auction along with other memorabilia in las vegas. >> aye aye aye. >> i know. in june. also on the block, a couch from her psychiatrist's office. you know, people will actually spend a lot of money for those things. and we won't even be that surprised. >> also what medical personnel actually sold those things originally. >> exactly. coming up next on "360,"

amanda knox, convicted of murder. a new development in the case. and later, dr. jack kevorkian, part two of the "360 interview." we talk about life and death and faith. are you a religious man? >> no. >> do you believe in god? >> i don't know. is there a god? look, i'm a scientist. a doctor is always a scientist. >> more from my interview with dr. kevorkian after the break. anncvo: with the new geico glovebox app... anncr vo: ...you can get help with a flat tire... anncr vo: ...find a nearby tow truck or gas station... anncr vo: ...call emergency services... anncr vo: ...collect accident information. anncr vo: or just watch some fun videos. anncvo: it's so easy, a caveman can do it. caveman: unbelievable... caveman: where's my coat? it was suede with the fringe. vo: download the glovebox app free at geico.com.

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more of my conversation with jack kevorkian. he's helped more than 130 people die, saying he didn't end their lives. kevorkian said it was to end their suffering. after eight years and three months in prison, two years on parole, he's a free man and remains as polarizing as ever. his life is now the subject of a fascinating hbo film called "you don't know jack." i've seen it. no matter what side you are on this issue, it's a really remarkable film. we'll talk to the stars and director in a moment. first, more one on one with dr. kevorkian. how many people in total did you help die?

>> around 130. a little more than 130. >> you're not sure of the exact number? >> well, i was helped by a colleague, a psychiatrist, who joined me near the end. the only doctor who offered to join me. >> and the first time you did it, who was the first? >> janet adkins was the first. >> and that was in a van? >> in a van. >> why in a van? >> i couldn't find a place. i tried nursing homes, churches. >> you didn't want to do it at your apartment? >> hospitals, clinics. no. because the police would raid the apartment, clean it out. and i didn't want to involve anybody else in it, like the landlord. >> i mean, what is that like to end somebody's life in a van? >> well, you're not ending the life. i didn't do it to end a life. i did it to end the suffering the patient's going through. the patient's obviously suffering. what's a doctor supposed to do, turn his back? if he's a coward, he is. >> a lot of doctors do, though.

>> well, they're cowards. doctors are cowards. they're not going to do anything that's going to hurt their income or reputation. any legal thing that's going to possibly be damaging. >> do you think still about the people, i mean about the 130 or so people? >> once in a while we do. in fact, you develop families. we, for a few years there, four or five years, we had annual meetings of family relatives. >> relatives of people. >> of people i had helped. obviously, they didn't think i committed a crime. >> i mean, do you have nightmares about it in. >> no, no. i don't think a doctor should have a nightmare about any medical procedure or else he's not a doctor. >> did you find it sad? >> well, of course. you don't like to end a life. look, if a doctor -- if somebody's got a cancer of the bone, the hip, you don't take the leg off at the joint, the hip joint, because you want to do it. i says, i'm going to take that

leg off. i can't wait to take that leg off. no. the leg has to come off to help save the patient's life. unfortunately, it entails the loss of a leg. >> but a lot of people, as you know, say you're playing god. >> well, isn't the doctor who takes a plea of guilty off playing god? >> you're saying doctors play god all the time. >> of course. anytime you interfere with the natural process, you're playing god. god determines what happens naturally. that means that when a person's ill, he shouldn't go to a doctor because he's asking for interference with god's will. but, of course, patients can't think that way. they want to live as long as possible and not suffer. so they call a doctor to help them end the suffering. >> are you a religious man? >> no. >> do you believe in god? >> i don't know. is there a god? look, i'm a scientist. a doctor is always a scientist. >> you were in prison when terry schiavo was in the headlines.

>> that's right. that's right. they called me for my opinion. >> what did you think? >> well, of course, it's wrong. what counts is not her husband's opinion, not her brother's opinion. her opinion. and she's expressed it to all of them very plainly. >> so you didn't -- so you thought what happened to her was wrong? >> well, they forced -- look, is it humane to cause a human's death with starvation and thirst? >> when you hear sarah palin talk about death panels in health care reform -- >> fearmongering because they oppose it. she's religious, no doubt about it. all the catholic priests are not against this. but they keep quiet. fear keeps control. >> you're off parole now, right? >> oh, yeah. i have only two years after i got out of prison. >> so you're a free man. >> yeah. >> would you do it again? would you help somebody? >> under certain circumstances,

yes, as long as i know they're not going to throw me in jail again and imprison me, yeah, i would do it again. >> have you had people approach you for help? >> people approach me -- i got letters even when i was in prison. they wanted help. they wanted advice how to do it. i couldn't do that in prison. >> can you give advice to people now? >> not in parole. with parole ending, i could give any advice i want. >> so now you could give advice? >> absolutely. notice i'm talking very freely about it. >> and are you in touch with people who want to end their life? >> not right now, no. they also, like the judge says, you have now been stopped. well, she was wrong. i haven't. >> you haven't been stopped? >> no, of course not. i still push for this issue. and when the chance comes, i'll do it the way it should be done. >> dr. jack kevorkian. join the live chat at ac360.com. coming up, dr. death, kevorkian, the focus of the new hbo movie. we'll talk to some of the stars, susan sarandon, john goodman,

barry levinson and dr. kevorkian. susan sarandon talking about life and death. >> i've been with people who doctors have upped their morphine at the end, now he. that happens all the time. nobody really talks about it, but that happens. they say at a certain point, okay, this is the choice. >> we'll have more ahead. plus, a new twist in the case against american amanda knox found guilty of killing her roommate in italy.

before the break, dr. jack

kevorkian told me physicians who don't help terminally ill patients die are cowards. he also participated in more than 130 assisted suicides. he said now that he's out of prison and not on parole, he said no one can stop him from legally doing it again if the law changes. hbo has turned his life into a film. al pacino plays kevorkian. it also stars susan sarandon and john goodman and was directed by barry levinson. they joined me earlier. barry, why did you want to make a film about dr. kevorkian? >> the character, first and foremost. when i read the draft, i thought the character was interesting, the characterses around it. his core group was very interesting. >> what did you learn about what he had done? >> i think it's more complicated than what i saw because i only saw the snippets of it. in other words, to watch that ten-year period from the time he began until the time he was sent

to prison is an amazing journey of a man coming up against the system and ultimately a man that could not be intimidated in that way as a sense as jack has said that he knew eventually he would be imprisoned. >> was prison hard for you? >> no. when you're not a criminal, it's easy. >> you were in solitary confinement for a time. >> just for protection. for about, oh, maybe four or five months, something like that. i got one hour a day free to make phone calls or walk the yard. the other 23 hours i was in a cell. >> so there was never a moment of doubt for you. >> never. >> even in the eight years and three months? >> how can there be a doubt about your duty as a physician? there's no doubt. i knew exactly what was going to happen and what i was doing. you're taking a risk because you're breaking the law that's based on religion which makes it doubly hard. and you're going to get punished. >> susan, you play a woman from

the hemlock society who supports him in his work. >> and becomes a good friend. and i was really lucky because the niece of the actual woman was very helpful to me to explain kind of the inner workings of her and any kind of character exaggerations or whatever in the script we corrected. i think what's really amazing is the courage of the people, for me, you know, watching the videos and understanding, pause you don't want to think that far ahead. you know, i've been with people who doctors have upped their morphine at the end, you know. that happens all the time. nobody really talks about it, but that happens. they say at a certain point, okay, this is the choice. >> i could carry that for you. >> that would have been nice, dr. kevorkian, but it's a little late now, don't you think? and it's mrs. >> mrs.? >> yep. >> oh. good. so you -- you know who i am? >> who do i look like, june cleaver?

what can i do for you? >> well, i have my first patient. what i don't have -- >> is a place. >> yes. >> and you'd like to use my home. >> well, no. i thought you'd know a place. but i could use your home. that would be just fine. sure. >> well, if you're going to come to my home, you're going to have to dress more cheerfully. >> john, in the movie, you play an assistant -- >> he's jimmy olson. >> jimmy olson. who is essential in the work in getting him the supplies that he needs for the work. >> yeah. they find out where he was operating, and then they start cutting my character off of the gas that he needs. >> you can't be cutting corners anymore. this isn't the old days. we're not winging it anymore. jack? the next time it doesn't feel

right, call it off. >> these are my decisions to make. mine alone. >> yes, sir. kemosabi. >> what did you think of kevorkian before you got involved? >> well, just surface, fascinating topic. not to reduce his life to a topic, but it's a fascinating h i issue. when they sent it to me, i said yes, please, i'm very curious about this. >> if you got to that point in life, is that something you would want? >> i want it now. >> i want it for you, too, now. >> you mean right now? >> yeah, sure. it fends. it depends on how painful everything was. you never know. you never know. >> you want to know the option is out there. >> yeah. >> what do you think of the movie? is it accurate? >> almost impaired to think of

what i thought before. >> oh, yeah? >> yeah, it's much better than i thought. >> you were worried about what you thought it would be like? >> not really worried but you can't be done. you can't get this message in a movie covering 130e ca ining 13 big issue. i proved them wrong. >> judge for yourself. a fascinating hbo film "you don't know jack" premieres saturday, april 24th, 9:00 p.m. eastern. new development in the am n amanda knox case. prosecutors, they want to extend her sentence. we'll explain ahead.

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yesterday we reported that president barack obama was moving to end discrimination and hospitalization visitation rights for same-sex couples. he told the department of human as much ass to designate who can visit them and to prohibit visitation based on sex wrap orientation. janis lengbend joined us and told us she was not permitted to see her partner before she decided. the department told us they didn't discriminate and provided a copy of a letter they say was sent to president obama.

there are other stories. joe johns is back. >> federal safety inspectors have found more than 60 serious violations at mines by massey since 29 miners died at company's upper big branch mine. officials believe explosive gas and coal dust may be to blame for the worst mining disaster in 40 years. amanda knox could be looking at a longer prison stay in italy. she was sentenced last year to 25 years in prison in the 2007 murder of her roommate, meredith kircher. a prosecutor says that's too lenient. he filed an appeal for life in prison. and could paddling be coming to schools near you? it's been almost a year since a school district in temple, texas, reintroduced corporal punishment. while it's controversial, the school board president says the discipline problem is much better even though only one student has received the punishment. that's old-fashioned stuff

there. >> sure is. all right. so for tonight's "shot," we've got some classic willie nelson, country music legend that was on "larry king live," admitted to smoking pot. it made headlines. then watch. >> larry: did you smoke today? >> cigarettes. >> larry: did you smoke pot? >> sure. >> larry: you did? before you came in here? >> yeah. ♪ never saw the sun shining so bright ♪ ♪ a memory of love sweet refrain ♪ love you, willie. >> next they'll be pulling out the junk food. >> yeah. we reedited that, i will admit. can we watch that again? do we have time? let's watch it again.

>> did i smoke cigarettes? >> larry: did you smoke pot today? >> yeah. >> this day? >> yeah. >> before you came in here? >> yeah. ♪ never saw the sun shining so bright ♪ ♪ a memory of love sweet refrain ♪ love you, willie. >> love you, too. >> that's kind of extraordinary. long pause. >> well, we reedited it. it didn't actually happen. we made it up. we edited all the pauses together. >> i got it. >> i love that you believed it, joe, too. >> i know, i totally fell for it. the giggles. >> some people out there don't believe it.

yes, we reedited it. he wasn't that stoned that he was totally silent and then singing. >> hilarious. >> there you go. >> it worked. >> it worked. i'm glad it worked. yes. joe, thanks very much for being around this week. i appreciate all the reporting. and everyone, have a great weekend. i'll see you on monday. at the top of the hour, goldman sachs accused of fraud. we'll be right back. when i grow up,

i want to fix up old houses. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up, i want to take him on his first flight. i want to run a marathon. i'm going to work with kids. i'm going to own my own restaurant. when i grow up, i'm going to start a band. [ female announcer ] at aarp we believe you're never done growing. thanks, mom. i just want to get my car back. [ female announcer ] together we can discover the best of what's next at aarp.org.

tonight, wall street powerhouse goldman sachs accused of fraud, suspected of lying to the people who trusted it. the government says it defrauded investors, concealing the truth about the value of those subprime mortgages that many believe truckered the economic collapse. we're keeping them honest. at the volcano, gary tuchman is in iceland where ash continues to rise into the air causing chaos in the sky. thousands of flights still canceled. airports closed. gary will have a live report head. and jack kevorkian, the man called dr. death is out of jail, off parole speaking freely about what he did and about what he says other doctors should do. >> i didn't do it to end a life. i did it to end the suffering the patient's going through. the patient's obviously suffering. what's a doctor supposed to do, turn his back? if he's a coward, he is. >> part two of the big "360 interview" with dr. kevorkian.

but first up, keeping them honest on wall street. many americans have long believed wall street, i'm talking about those big firms and bankers who made millions in bonuses basically do what they want to get rich know matter how and who's hurt and only rarely are they held accountable. today goldman sachs who had profits of more than $14 billion last year for the most part has escaped blame for the meltdown was accused of fraud. they have only been accused at this point. the s.e.c. says the firm sold toxic bonds to investors that would become worthless within a year. achord according to the sec, the bonds that goldman sold to investors were picked mainly by a hedge fund that was also betting the subprime mortgage market would collapse. the s.e.c. says goldman never told investors about the deal with the hedge fund. in the end, investors were wiped out losing $1 billion. the hedge fund pocketed billions of dollars in profits and goldman picked up millions in fees. the transactions are confusing. i want to bring in our own ali

velshi right now to help explain more. ali? >> anderson, you're right. it is confusing. let me try and give you a little more light. the hedge fund, the company, paulson and company, no relation to the former treasury secretary. let's replace goldman sachs and these bonds. let's treat goldman sachs as if it were an antique car dealer, an exotic car dealer, and they're selling '57 chevys. these got these two '57 chevys in the shop on the left and right. they have a few dings. some of the parts are really good, some are not. let's just say that this paulson and company, this hedge fund company we're talking about walks into that dealership and says, i will take this car as long as you take all the bad parts out of it, put it in the other car and take all the good parts out of the other car and put it in this one. so now what happens is you've got one of these two '57 chevys that's got great parts in it. it's all shiny and new. the other one's battered up and it's got bad parts in it. let's move forward. now the dealership, goldman sachs, this is all what's alleged.

nothing's been proven. this is what the sec says. basically, the dealership has sold that one shiny new car. the car with all the bad parts, they shine it up. they make it look like the same car, and they sell it as if it's a good car that's likely to work with a normal amount of good and bad parts. that is what the sec alleges happened, that basically they took this pile of bad stuff and sold it to investors as if it was a stable investment that might have gone up or might have gone down, knowing full well that it was not going to appreciate in value and that someone had done something to that pile of stuff to make it lack value. and that's basically what the allegation is. that goldman sold unworthy stuff to people who were buying it as if it was a normal investment. and it is those residential mortgage-backed securities, those bonds, that you're talking about. >> the money they're accused of making is $15 million. >> very little. very little. >> which for goldman sachs isn't

a lot of money for a transaction. >> i would guess they make more out of their vending machines. that's exactly the point. the question here is did goldman knowingly sell a bad investment to its unsuspecting investors without saying someone is betting against this investment actively so it is likely to lose value. that's what the question is. >> ali, appreciate it. thanks very much. in a statement goldman sachs called the sec allegations completely unfounded. my next guest believes goldman rigged the market to get rich. matt taibbi joins us. he wrote a scathing article on t the deal. thanks for being with us. matt, you accused goldman sachs of a lot of shady behavior. you say what they're accused of right now is worse than you thought. >> back in the summer i wrote an article. basically what i wrote was, basically i said that goldman was betting against its clients. at the time all i really knew is that at a certain point in time goldman was short the housing market. they were short mortgage-backed securities. at the same time, they were selling these same sorts of instruments to their clients. this is actually a step worse than that.

the allegation here is that they got together with this guy, paulson, and they conspired to basically make a giant ball of crap that they could sell to their investors. this is actually making a bad investment that you can bet against and then unloading it on your clients. >> what's interesting, too, matt, what shocks people on, you know, about this, it's one thing people kind of think, okay, you know, doing things which hurt americans in general, but for wall street firms to actually even hurt their own investors, by people on wall street, it's seen as doubly bad. as if hurting americans isn't bad enough. >> that's why this is going to be incredibly damaging to goldman sachs. it's one thing to have left-leaning commentators picking on them for being unethical or even to be accused of bilking the government out of billions which they, of course, did in the bailout, this is a different ball game. this is robbing from your own clients. and on wall street, it doesn't get any worse than that. this is going to directly affect our bottom line and the relationships with all of their customers.

>> it does seem if it hurts american taxpayers, that's one thing, but they're hurting their investors, so people on wall street are doubly upset. does the sec have a strong case here? >> i've got it tell you, i read the complaint, and it looks very beefy. it does look like they have a very strong case, if they have evidence to support all the allegations that are in that complaint, i would say this is going to be a horse race here. and typically, you know, the sec really blew it with the madoff investigation. they dropped the ball and i think they have a chip on their shoulder. the commission has something to prove here. and by alleging that the golden boys of wall street engaged in this type of fraud, that is very, very significant. >> matt, let me play devil's advocate. if they only made $15 million off this transaction, goldman, why would they take such a risk, assuming these allegations are true, when right now they're just allegations, but why would they take such a risk for $15 million? that's a lot for any citizen,

but on wall street for goldman sachs, you know, for the money they make, that's not that much. >> we don't know the entire story here. i've also heard versions where goldman was also short some of these instruments. so we don't know how much they're making out of it as well. the $15 million figure that you're quoting is just the fees they made off the transaction. we don't know what goldman's actual interest was in this deal. that remains to be seen. >> sunny, is it possible they could say this was the trader who was involved, the one employee's name who sent the e-mails about this and we didn't know, the higher-ups will say they didn't know? >> absolutely. typically in these kinds of cases, that employee is generally fired. i've been looking into it and apparently the employee has not been fired yet. but i have to tell you goldman did release a statement today saying that they also lost $90 million. and they made very good points in their statement. and so they're obviously going to defend this pretty vigorously. >> matt taibbi, sunny houseman, appreciate you both being on. thank you.

let us know what you think. join the live chat at ac360.com. join viewers around america and the world. the ash cloud causing worldwide chaos. it's unbelievable. thousands of flights canceled, airports shut down. a lot of travelers caught in limbo. an erupting volcano in iceland is the cause. gary tuchman is there. we'll talk to him coming up. he's on the ground. and how dangerous is that ash? we'll show you one passenger jet's close call decades ago. first, the smoke filled the cabin, then came to flames. the engines caught on fire. incredible story of survival ahead. and what you don't know about jack kevorkian. the doctor who helped more than 130 people die. he's not sure of the exact number. he joins us with the big "360 interview." a fascinating, candid interview with the man at the center of this life-and-death issue. [ male announcer ] when we built our first hybrid, youtube didn't exist. and facebook was still run out of a dorm room. when we built our first hybrid, more people had landlines than cell phones, and gas was $1.75 a gallon. and now, while other luxury carmakers are building their first hybrids, lexus hybrids have traveled 5.5 billion miles.

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a fiery volcano continues to cause air travel chaos across much of europe tonight. the eruption has created a massive amount of smoke and ash that airplanes cannot fly through. we'll tell you what happens to planes if they attempt to fly through the danger zone. we'll take you inside a dangerous flight decades ago. today across much of europe, some 16,000 flights were branded grounded and nearly 20 countries. can you imagine the chaos that's caused? back in iceland close to the volcano, residents are on edge. gary tuchman is there with a "360 dispatch." >> reporter: this man is a farmer. his family has owned this farm on the southern coast of iceland for 104 years. that's why this is a very traumatizing time. getting closer and closer to his land as the wind has shifted, a huge plume of ash billowing larger and larger from the newly active volcano that looms over his farm. the eruption took place under a glacier causing the water under that glacier to flood much of his farm. >> translator: i was really

scared. i was shocked afterwards. i was standing here and watched the water come. >> reporter: his family is feverishly building a dike in case more floodwaters pour down the mountain. but it's the approaching volcanic ash which can destroy home homes. so many others in iceland in a little over an hour's drive from the capital. people are sealing their windows and doors in hope the ash doesn't ruin their homes. the deputy is with the local police department. how scary is this for the community, the eruption of this volcano? >> well, it's pretty serious because it's mostly because the properties of people and their life's work are being possibly being destroyed. >> reporter: the last time this particular volcano erupted was in 1821. almost 190 years ago. and those eruptions lasted for about two years. people are sure hoping it doesn't last that long this time. what's happened from this volcano, because it erupted

underneath a glash refer underneath a glacier, it flooded these fields. now you're seeing mud, rock and ice balls. so far the damage has been limited to flooding, some buckled roads, there have been no fatalities, no injuries and the people of iceland consider themselves so far very lucky. because the last eruption of this volcano was almost 190 years ago, his family hasn't dealt with something like this. he just doesn't know what to expect. >> translator: i don't know. you don't know. there's no way to know. >> reporter: what he does know is that this weekend will be tense. >> so gary, what do experts say, i mean, about how long this huge plume cloud of ash is going to be there and cause a threat? >> reporter: these experts know a lot, anderson, but they don't know enough to tell us how long it will last. usually when there are volcanos here in iceland and regularly volcanos in iceland don't last very long. but like i just told you, this

volcano in 1821 lasted two years. that would be big trouble. and icelanders, they know about the volcanos that happened in the 18th century. 9,000 people, a quarter of the population, were killed during the volcano back then. they do not expect fatalities during this but they expect the possibility of property damage. >> yeah, and that country already been hit hard economically. it's the worst thing that could possibly happen and possibly causing problems for all of europe. boeing tells us in the past 30 years, more than 90 jet-powered airplanes from volcanic ash suffered results. tonight we have the flighten frightening story of one flight. randi kaye with the nightmare at 37,000 feet. >> reporter: this document from "national geographic" recreates the ordeal of a british airways jet caught in a cloud of volcanic ash. june 24th, 1982. flight 9 from london to australia.

the radar says expect a smooth flight. but suddenly inside there's reason to panic. >> i noticed that thick smoke was pouring into the cabin through the vents above the windows. >> the acrid smoke was at the back of your throat, up your nose, in your eyes. >> reporter: they are 37,000 feet above the indian ocean when the engines ignite. >> the engine's on fire! >> there were huge flames coming out of the back of the engines, 20, some people said 40 feet long. >> reporter: in about a minute and a half, all four of the boeing 747's engines fail. >> engine failure. number four. fire action, number four. >> none of us believed it was happening. >> reporter: what captain moody doesn't realize is that he's actually flying through volcanic ash in indonesia. the ash made up of tiny bits of glass is drawn into the engine. it melts and gloms on to the engine parts instead of passing through. choking the engine to death.

>> reporter: the boeing 747 is dropping from the night sky. heading straight for the indian ocean. they are about six miles up. about a half hour from crashing into the sea. >> mayday, mayday, mayday, speed bird 9. we've lost all four engines. >> reporter: captain moody warns the nearly 250 passengers to prepare for an emergency landing. >> i said, "good evening again, ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. we have a small problem in that all four engines have failed we're doing our utmost to keep them going, and i trust you're not in too much distress. >> reporter: passengers begin to accept they may not survive. >> ma, in trouble. plane going down. >> we'll do best for the boys. we love you. sorry, pa. >> reporter: the jet sails through the sky like a glider, still unaware of the ash, the crew glides low enough to escape it. captain moody considers landing in the ocean. but then at 13,000 feet, the crew gets all four engines

started again. they had had a chance to cool, and the ash had broken away. one quickly fails again. still, he lands british airways flight 9 safely in jakarta, indonesia. almost 27 years later after his heroic flight, captain eric moody, now retired, tells us it's smart to keep airplanes away from volcanic ash. he wouldn't want to fly through it again. randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> i love how understated the british pilot was. we have a small problem. four of our engines, all of them, have gone out. amazing they got through it. check out ac360.com to find the air travels delays. that's where all find all of those affected. up next, the raw politics of prayer. a court decision on the national

one man's mission to help kids suffer with medical problems. for 20 years now an american doctor has been providing medical treatment and surgery for kids in ethiopia, one of the poorest countries in the world. he's also adopted five kids himself. the doctor is the focus of an hbo documentary and the new book "this is a soul." marilyn berger wrote the book. while writing it her life changed forever while meeting danny, a boy in need of medical attention. i spoke with her and the doctor

earlier. marilyn, you went to ethiopia to write an article about dr. rhodes. it really changed your life. >> i went to write about rick and i found this extraordinary human being who is the most altruistic, selfless, wonderful dock to come who takes care of some of the sickest people on the planet. while walking down the street, i found a little boy with the disease he deals with which in this case was tuberculosis of the spine. to make a long story short, i suggested he brings the boy here so he could learn some english, and we never let him go. >> and he's living with you now? >> he's living with me now. he goes to school in new york. he's having the time of his life. he's 8. >> and doctor, when you saw him, did you know instantly what the matter was? >> oh, one second. it's a big "v," a symmetrical "v" caused by tuberculosis. it's very common. i have well over 100 patients with this condition. >> what is it about ooethiopia .

>> i first went to africa in the famine in '84 and '85 and went back after my residency to teach at the medical school. i did that for 2 1/2 years. i went back in 1990 to work for the american jewish committee, i'm still working for them. i've been the doctor for ethiopian immigrants to israel and also taking care of sick destitu destitutes. >> how is he doing now? >> great. he's taken up baseball, learned how to ski. he loves school. the teachers love him. the kids think he's the funniest kid in the class. >> all this happened around the time your husband was diagnosed with cancer. >> yeah. i went from being the wife of a high-powered television person and i was a journalist myself, out every night and all of that. and don got sick. danny came into my life and i love him. >> did you ever expect that at

da -- >> 74. everyone knows. >> did you ever thought you'd be a mom? >> i never thought of being a mother, but danny is my kid, and i'm mad about him. >> and doctor, he's supposed to have another surgery soon. >> he is. he's going to have another surgery in june. >> you say that good medicine doesn't cost a lot now. >> that's true. when i started treating kids with cancer, i literally put them on a mattress on my front porch and hooked up the chemotherapy to the drain pipe. and i was giving them chemotherapy. and it worked fine. i gave them ivy fluid to protect it from the light. and i cured some bone cancer that way. i think there's a lot of low-tech solutions. for example, if we import the four components of treating hodgkin's disease from india. and we can cure it elsewhere for $1,000. in new york it would be $60. >> what did you, marilyn?

>> i would say that all of us wish rick is the doctor we had because he treats the entire person. every time he takes a photograph of the adult or kid and says, "you have to smile." he takes that and sends it with n studies. they'll say, why are you sending me a picture? he said this is not just a back, this is a soul. and he treats the soul. >> and that's the title of the book, "this is a soul." and that, to you, says what? >> to me it's a guess that rick is a very spiritual person and that he sees the people he deals with have souls that need caring for. but also, they discovered in a study in israel that doctors do better diagnoses when they can see the patient. rick said this to me and said, who thought of this first? >> does danny talk about what his life was like before.

he will say movie's over, the end. >> movie's over. >> he will stop. he doesn't want to talk anymore is when? >> he's on a visit, i figure we'll revisit the issue. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up, sitting down with dr. death. jack kevorkian out of jail and not apologizinapologizing. a lot of people say you're out of luck. isn't the doctor who takes a leg off playing god? >> you're saying gok tors play golf. >> of course. anytime you interfere with the natural process, you're playing god. and why president obama worries about the nation's safety. when i grow up,

i want to fix up old houses. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up, i want to take him on his first flight. i want to run a marathon. i'm going to work with kids. i'm going to own my own restaurant. when i grow up, i'm going to start a band. [ female announcer ] at aarp we believe you're never done growing. thanks, mom. i just want to get my car back. [ female announcer ] together we can discover the best of what's next at aarp.org. (announcer) we all want to stay active. we don't want anything... ...to slow us down. but even in your 30s... ...your bones can begin to change.

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♪ sexy lady ♪ who's that lady? [ female announcer ] swiffer 360 duster extender cleans high and low with thick all-around fibers that attract and lock up to two times more dust than a feather duster. swiffer gives cleaning a whole new meaning. [ cat meows ] ♪ who's that lady? ♪ well, look who's here. it's ellen. hey, mayor white. how you doing? great. come on in. would you like to see our new police department? yeah, all right. this way. and here it is. completely networked. so, anything happening, suz? she's all good. oh, my gosh. is that my car? [ whirring ] [ female announcer ] the new community. see it. live it. share it. on the human network. cisco. american amanda knox is in an italian prison facing 26

years for the murder of her wroom ma roommate. but it could get worse. why prosecutors could increase her sentence. joe johns has more. >> last night we reported charges had been dropped against nine of ten americans arrested in haiti earlier this year. now haiti's top prosecutor is denying those kidnapping charges have been dropped. he says they will stand until a judge decides whether to proceed to trial. the tenth american missionary laura silsby remains in a haitian jail. former president bill clinton said antigovernment rhetoric can lead to violence like it did 15 years ago this month with the oklahoma city bombing. he told wolf blitzer that anger directed toward president obama is potentially dangerous. >> he symbolizes the loss of control, predictability, of certainty, of clarity that a lot of people need for their psychic well-being. and i worry about it.

look, he's well protected by the secret service. they're terrific. and the president, i can tell you, i've never met a president -- and look, george w. bush had some threats against him and people who strongly disagreed with his policy. >> mr. clinton says he sees parallels between the mood of the country today and at the time of the oklahoma city attack. toyota is recalling about 600,000 sienna minivans due to corrosion problems on spare tire cables. the automaker says the recall affects 1998 through 2010 models sold in the u.s. that have been operated in cold weather climates. and we've all seen pictures of marilyn monroe. what about x-rays? images of the star's chest and pelvis will be up for auction along with other memorabilia in las vegas. >> aye aye aye. >> i know. >> at the end of june. also on the block, a couch from her psychiatrist's office. you know, people will actually spend a lot of money for those things. and we won't even be that surprised.

>> also what medical personnel actually sold those things originally. >> exactly. coming up next on "360," amanda knox, convicted of murder. in italy, as you know. tonight, a new development in the case. we'll tell you ahead. and later, dr. jack kevorkian, part two of the "360 interview." we talk about life and death and faith. are you a religious man? >> no. >> do you believe in god? >> i don't know. is there a god? look, i'm a scientist. a doctor is always a scientist. >> more from my interview with dr. kevorkian after the break.

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for tonight's "big 360 interview," more of my conversation with jack kevorkian. he's helped more than 130 people die, saying he didn't end their

lives. kevorkian said it was to end their suffering. after eight years and three months in prison, two years on parole, he's a free man and remains as polarizing as ever. his life is now the subject of a fascinating hbo film called "you don't know jack." directed by barry levinson. i've seen it. no matter what side you are on this issue, it's a really remarkable film. we'll talk to the stars and director in a moment. first, more one on one with dr. kevorkian. how many people in total did you help die? >> around 130. a little more than 130. >> you're not sure of the exact number? >> well, i was helped by a colleague, a psychiatrist, who joined me near the end. the only doctor who offered to join me. >> and the first time you did it, who was the first? >> janet adkins was the first. >> and that was in a van? >> in a van. >> why in a van? >> i couldn't find a place. i tried nursing homes, churches. >> you didn't want to do it at your apartment? >> hospitals, clinics. no. because the police would raid the apartment, clean it out. and i didn't want to involve

anybody else in it, like the landlord. >> i mean, what is that like to end somebody's life in a van? >> well, you're not ending the life. i didn't do it to end a life. i did it to end the suffering the patient's going through. the patient's obviously suffering. what's a doctor supposed to do, turn his back? if he's a coward, he is. >> a lot of doctors do, though. >> well, they're cowards. doctors are cowards. you know that. they won't take anything that's going to hurt their income or their reputation. any legal thing that's going to possibly be damaging. >> do you think still about the people, i mean about the 130 or so people? >> once in a while we do. in fact, you develop families. we, for a few years there, four or five years, we had annual meetings of family relatives. >> relatives of people you've helped.

>> relatives of people i helped. obviously, they didn't think i committed a crime. >> i mean, do you have nightmares about it? >> no, no. i don't think a doctor should have a nightmare about any medical procedure or else he's not a doctor. >> did you find it sad? >> well, of course. you don't like to end a life. look, if a doctor -- if somebody's got a cancer of the bone, the hip, you don't take the leg off at the joint, the hip joint, because you want to do it. i says, i'm going to take that leg off. i can't wait to take that leg off. no. the leg has to come off to help save the patient's life. unfortunately, it entails the loss of a leg. >> but a lot of people, as you know, say you're playing god. >> well, isn't the doctor who takes a leg off playing god? >> you're saying doctors play god all the time. >> of course. anytime you interfere with the natural process, you're playing god. god determines what happens naturally. that means that when a person's ill, he shouldn't go to a doctor because he's asking for

interference with god's will. but, of course, patients can't think that way. they want to live as long as possible and not suffer. so they call a doctor to help them end the suffering. >> are you a religious man? >> no. >> do you believe in god? >> i don't know. is there a god? look, i'm a scientist. a doctor is always a scientist. >> you were in prison when terri schiavo was in the headlines. >> that's right. that's right. they called me for my opinion. >> what did you think? >> well, of course, it's wrong. what counts is not her husband's opinion, not her brother's opinion. her opinion. and she's expressed it to all of them very plainly. >> so you didn't -- so you thought what happened to her was wrong? >> well, they forced -- look, is it humane to cause a human's death with starvation and thirst? >> when you hear sarah palin talk about death panels in health care reform --

>> fearmongering because they oppose it. she's religious, no doubt about it. all the catholic priests are not against this. but they keep quiet. fear keeps control. >> you're off parole now, right? >> oh, yeah. i have only two years after i got out of prison. >> so you're a free man. >> yeah. >> would you do it again? would you help somebody? >> under certain circumstances, yes, as long as i know they're not going to throw me in jail again and imprison me, yeah, i would do it again. >> have you had people approach you for help? >> people approach me -- i got letters even when i was in prison. they wanted help. they wanted advice how to do it. i couldn't do that in prison. >> can you give advice to people now? >> not in parole. with parole ending, i could give any advice i want. >> so now you could give advice? >> absolutely. notice i'm talking very freely about it. >> and are you in touch with people who want to end their life? >> not right now, no.

they all assume, like the judge says, you have now been stopped. well, she was wrong. i haven't. >> you haven't been stopped? >> no, of course not. i still push for this issue. and when the chance comes, i'll do it the way it should be done. >> dr. jack kevorkian. join the live chat at ac360.com. coming up, the "big 360" interview "dr. death." kevorkian, the focus of the new hbo movie. we'll talk to some of the stars, susan sarandon, john goodman, barry levinson and dr. kevorkian. susan sarandon talking about life had much and life-and-death decisions. >> i've been with people who doctors have upped their morphine at the end, now he. that happens all the time. nobody really talks about it, but that happens. they say at a certain point, okay, this is the choice. >> we'll have more ahead. plus, a new twist in the case against american amanda knox found guilty of killing her roommate in italy. some lunch.

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before the break, dr. jack kevorkian told me physicians who don't help terminally ill patients die are, in his words, cowards. he also participated in more than 130 assisted suicides. kevorkian is not backing down from what he did, and he said now that he's out of prison and not on parole, he said no one can stop him from legally doing it again if the law changes. hbo has turned his life into a film. "you don't know jack" airs april 24th. al pacino plays kevorkian. it also stars susan sarandon and john goodman and was directed by barry levinson. they and dr. kevorkian joined me earlier. barry, why did you want to make a film about dr. kevorkian?

>> the character, first and foremost. when i read the draft that was sent to me, i thought the character was interesting, the characters around it, his core group was very interesting. >> what did you learn about what he had done? >> i think it's more complicated than what i saw because i only saw the snippets of it. in other words, to watch that ten-year period from the time he began until the time he was sent to prison is an amazing journey of a man coming up against the system and ultimately a man that could not be intimidated in that way in a sense as jack has said that he knew eventually he would be imprisoned. >> was prison hard for you? >> no. when you know you're not a criminal, it's easy. >> you were in solitary confinement for a time. >> just for protection. for about, oh, maybe four or five months, something like that. i got one hour a day free to make phone calls or walk the yard. the other 23 hours i was in a cell.

>> so there was never a moment of doubt for you. >> never. >> even in the eight years and three months you were in prison? >> how can there be a doubt about your duty as a physician? there's no doubt. i knew exactly what was going to happen and what i was doing. you're taking a risk because you're breaking the law that's based on religion which makes it doubly hard. and you're going to get punished. >> susan, you play a woman from the hemlock society who supports him in his work. >> and becomes a good friend. and i was really lucky because the niece of the actual woman was very helpful to me to explain kind of the inner workings of her and any kind of character exaggerations or whatever in the script we corrected. i think what's really amazing is the courage of the people, for me, you know, watching the videos and understanding, because you don't want to think that far ahead. you know, i've been with people who doctors have upped their

morphine at the end, you know. that happens all the time. nobody really talks about it, but that happens. they say at a certain point, okay, this is the choice. >> i could carry that for you. >> that would have been nice, dr. kevorkian, but it's a little late now, don't you think? and it's mrs. >> mrs.? >> yep. >> oh.think? and it's mrs. >> mrs.? >> yes. >> so you know who i am? >> do you look like june cleaver? what can i do for you? >> well, hey, i have my first patient. what i don't have -- >> is a place. >> yes. >> and you'd like to use my home? >> well, no, i thought you would know a place. i could use your home, that would be just fine, sure. >> well, if you're going to come to my home, you have to dress more cheerfully. >> john, in the movie you play basically a guy -- >> his jimmy olson.

>> but who is in essential in the work of getting him the supplies he needs for the work. >> yeah. they find out where he was operating and they'd start cutting my character off of the gas that he needs and stuff like that. >> we can't be cutting corners anymore. this isn't the old days. we're not winging it anymore. jack? the next time it doesn't feel right, call it off. >> these are my decisions to make, neil. mine alone. >> yes, sir. >> what did you think of kevorkian before you got involved in this? >> well, it just surfaced, fascinating topic. not to reduce his life to a topic, but fascinating issue. and when they sent to-t to me i said, yes, please, i'm very curious about this.

>> if you got to this point in life, is this something you would want? >> i want it now. >> i want it for you too now. >> you mean right now? >> yeah, sure. it depends. it depends on how painful everything was. you never know. you never know. >> you would want it as an option out there? >> i like the option, yeah. >> what did you think of the movie that was made? was it accurate? >> i was embarrassed to think of what i thought of before it was done. >> yeah? >> yeah. it's much better -- >> you were worried about what it would be like? >> you can't be done. you can't get this message across in one movie, two hours, covering 130 cases of a big issue like this. can't be done. i was proving proven wrong. >> you can judge for yourself. it's a fascinating film, hbo film qupt "you don't know jack" premieres april 24 #th. amanda knox, in an italian prison for killing her roommate.

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yesterday we reported that president barack obama was moving to end discrimination in hospital visitation right for same-sex couples. he told the department of health and human services to allow patients who can designate them. janice, yesterday received a call from the president himself, joined us on the program and told us she was not ready to see her partner before she died at jack's memorial hospital in florida. the hospital contacted us and they told us they didn't discriminate and provided a copy of the letter they say was sent to president obama telling him this as well. there are other stories we're following tonight. we're back with the "36 # 0

bulletin". federal safety inspectors have found more than 60 safety violations at mines operated by massey. officials believe explosive gas and coal dust may be to blame for the worst u.s. mining disaster in 40 years. amanda knox could be looking at a longer prison stay in italy. she was sentenced last year to 25 years in prison in the 2007 murder of her roommate, mayor death kercher. a prosecutor says that's too lean yent lenient. he filed an appeal for life in prison. could paddling come to a year near you? it's been almost a year since the school district in temple, texas, re-introduced corporal punishment. the principal says the discipline problem is much better even though only one student has received the punishment. that's old fashioned stuff there. >> sure is. for tonight's shot we have

classic willie nelson, was "larry king live," admitted smoking pot, made national headlines and then things got weird. >> did you smoke pot today? this day? >> simprets? >> larry: did you smoke pot today, before you came in here. ♪ never saw the sunshining so bright ♪ ♪ a memory of love's refrain >> uh-huh. next they'll be pulling out the junk food. >> yeah. we -- we re-edited that, i will admit. let's watch it again. >> did i smoke cigarettes?

>> larry: did you smoke pot today, today, before you came in here? >> yeah. ♪ never saw the sunshining so bright ♪ ♪ a memory of love's refrain ♪ >> larry: love you. >> love you, too. >> that's kind of extraordinary. i mean -- >> yeah. >> long pause there. >> well, we re-edited. didn't actually happen. we made that up. we edited all the pauses together. >> oh, i got. >> yes. >> i love that you believed it, too, joe. >> i totally fell for it. >> that makes it even better. just so people out there don't believe it, yes, we we re-