-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> larry: tonight michael moore. he says we got mugged by goldman sachs. and today congress rips into that firm, accused of ripping you off. >> you knew it was a [ bleep ] deal. >> larry: plus, moore's take on arizona's controversial immigration law and sarah palin, and the american auto industry's comeback. michael moore, his opinions for the hour next, on "larry king live."

>> larry: like him or dislike him, he is never dull. we welcome michael moore. >> try to like him if you can, please. >> larry: we welcome michael moore back to "larry king live." the oscar-winning documentary filmmaker, best-selling author, most recent film "capitalism: a love story." kind of prophetic today. we're going to talk about goldman sachs. and i think he is going to take them to task. the firm's executives past and present were on the hot seat on capitol hill hill today. hearings just ended. members of the permanent subcommittee on investigation accused them of unbridled greed in helping push the u.s. economy into a tailspin. the final witness goldman chairman and ceo lloyd blankfein finished testifying several minutes ago. here is some of the grilling. >> they are not told that not only are you not a fiduciary, you are betting against the very security that you're selling to them. you don't disclose that. that's worse than not being a fiduciary. that's being an n a conflict of

interest situation. >> we don't -- i don't think our clients care, or they should care -- >> that you were betting against the security you're selling to them? they don't care? >> you say betting against. >> yeah, you're betting. you're going short against the very security. you're holding a short position against the very security. i read you over and over and over again. you're selling securities. many of which are described as crap by your own sales force internally. >> larry: michael moore is with us. you watched the hearings. what struck you the most? >> that's my senator from michigan. we're a rough bunch. what struck me the most is that these goldman guys all day long sat there hemming and hawing and essentially played the american people for chumps. that's what it felt like to me. because even when presented with the actual evidence that -- that with their own e-mails where they're yukking it up about how they're taking people's pension

funds, they're taking people's 401(k)s, and investing it in something they know is a bad investment, and then they're going to go and take a bet out hoping that that investment fails so that they get money from that. >> larry: but from a horseplay standpoint. if i'm a tout and i give you a horse that i don't like while i bet a horse that i think is going to win, i win this race, but i lose you as a customer. isn't that dumb? >> are you trying to tell me something, larry? i didn't understand. >> larry: why would you bet -- why would you advise someone and then go against them and expect to keep them as clients? >> because this is all -- this has been going on for about 30 years. it's all about short-term profits, short-term gain there is no real -- >> larry: what happens to the people who lost? >> then there is another schmuck around the corner and another customer that is going to invest in goldman sachs because you're the gold standard of how this

works. that's not unusual. why are the guys down in times square doing the three card money. don't we know by now that doesn't work? there is going to be another tourist come up there and put their dollar down. >> larry: let's play dumb. what is a derivative? >> derivative is something that basically -- it's essentially the bet that you take from something that is real. so for instance, and of course now i'm going to explain something that i was a big joke in my film. >> larry: i know. >> because it's almost an impossible thing to explain. but basically -- >> larry: simply put. >> simply put, let's say i need a thousand barrels of oil for the coming year for my business. and i'm going to invest in this oil. but i also am going to -- i want to make sure -- i want to hedge my bet too just in case the price of oil goes up. so i take out what you would call a derivative to make sure that i get to -- >> larry: you're hedging your

bet. >> right. essentially hedging your bet. >> larry: that's legal, isn't it? that's legal. it's done all the time. >> that's correct. it is legal. >> larry: so what did goldman sachs do that you think -- and they have just been accused. this is a civil suit. what did they do wrong in your opinion? >> because it's illegal to commit fraud. >> larry: what was the fraud? >> the fraud was not telling the person who is investing in this -- timberwolf was one of the examples they gave as after investment, one of assets they were getting people to invest in. if you don't get the person to -- i won't use the word, but a crappy investment. that's their words in their own e-mails to each other. you're defrauding the person who is taking that money and giving it to you. because they're giving it to you because they're hoping you're going to do something good with it. and when you make the investment, you realize it doesn't always go well. >> larry: were these mostly mortgages? >> no, no. not all of them, no, no. you could do a derivative on just about anything. in some markets around the

world, they do derivatives on or place bets on who is going to win the world series or who is going to win an election. >> larry: but they knew they were bad loans? >> yes, they knew they were bad loans. >> larry: that's the fraud accusation. subcommittee members from both sides of the aisle were pretty much on the same page in their characterizations of goldman's activities. take a look. >> you are the bookie. you are the house. you have less oversight and less regulation as you all began this wild, wild west of tranches, waterfalls, equity tranches, residual, warehousing, as you began all that, you had less oversight than a pit boss in las vegas. >> i think most people in las vegas would take offense at having wall street compared to las vegas because in las vegas actually people know that the odds are against them. they play anyway. on wall street, they manipulate the odds while you're playing

the game. >> larry: is this going to change? >> and can i add to that. and we now guarantee your losses. so in other words, if you lose, we the american people will bail you out. >> larry: is this going to change things, these hearings? >> i don't think that these hearings are, especially the dodd bill. i mean, mr. blankfein by the end of his testimony said that he thought generally the dodd bill was a good bill. well, that should kill the bill right there if he thinks that's -- if he think that's a good bill. >> larry: which reforms would michael moore implement on wall street? what would he do right now? we'll ask him when we come back.

okay, class, our special guest is here -- ellen page. hi, ellen! hi, ellen! hi, ellen! hi, ellen! we're going on a field trip to china! wow. [ chuckles ] when i was a kid, we -- we would just go to the -- the farm. [ cow moos ] [ laughter ] no, seriously, where are you guys going? ni hao! ni hao! ni hao! ni hao! ni hao! ni hao! ni hao! ni hao! ni hao! ni hao! ni hao! ni hao! [ female announcer ] the new classroom. see it. live it. share it. on the human network. cisco. i want to fix up old houses. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up, i want to take him on his first flight. i want to run a marathon. i'm going to work with kids. i'm going to own my own restaurant. when i grow up, i'm going to start a band.

[ female announcer ] at aarp we believe you're never done growing. thanks, mom. i just want to get my car back. [ female announcer ] together we can discover the best of what's next at aarp.org. key lime pie, pineapple upside down cake, raspberry cheesecake... ...yeah, every night it's something different. oh yeah yeah...she always keeps them in the house. no no no, i've actually lost weight... i just have a high metabolism or something... ...lucky. [ wife ] babe... ♪ umm, i gotta go. [ female announcer ] 28 delicious flavors at around 100 calories each. yoplait, it is so good. indulge in new blueberry pie and new red velvet cake. yoplait light. it is so good. >> larry: okay. against this backdrop, the senate republicans blocked action on financial reform legislation for the second day in a row. the vote 57-41. they were three votes short. so the question is what would

you enact? president moore -- no, king moore. what's your reading? >> well, king moore would mean that you and i have a special relationship. >> larry: what would you do? let's let that slide. >> okay. what i would do first of all, in order to prevent the next crash we have to take care of two big to fail. we have these banks are too big. they have to be broken up. so there is a bill that is being proposed by senator brown from ohio and ted kaufman from delaware. and it's called the safe banking act of 2010. this is the bill everybody watch shotgun get behind, call their member of congress to support the brown-kaufman safe banking act. what this will do, it will put a cap on the size of these financial institutions. and it will essentially allow for them to be broken up. so instead of these six large banks, you could have 20 or 30 or 40 different financial institutions.

>> larry: how would that help things? >> well, because then nobody is too big to fail. that's -- that is one of the problems that caused the crash. i mean, it's essentially, you know, they were talking about the fdic today. when a community bank, when a smaller bank fails, the fdic comes in, and in addition to protecting everybody's money in there, they figure out what parts of the bank are making money, what parts aren't, and they sell off different parts of the bank's assets to other banks or individuals or institutions or whatever. and so i mean i think that's -- but for me, this is like getting into the weeds a bit. i think there is a larger problem here. >> larry: which is? >> which is the economic system that is still rigged to benefit the few at the top while everyone else struggles to make it from paycheck to paycheck. that's if they have a job. and from where i come from michigan we've got -- >> larry: are you a socialist? >> no, i'm an american, i think.

>> larry: favoring what political system? >> favoring the democratic -- that's what i mean. i favor democracy. >> larry: democracy says i can rise to the top and i can make more money than you. >> to me democracy means that everybody has a seat at the table. and the rich man at the table doesn't take nine slice of the pie and leave one slice for the other nine people at the table. democracy means that everybody has a piece of that pie. >> larry: are you saying the goldman saches are bad for the economy? >> yes. >> larry: as entities? >> and not just them. anything that says we can never find ourselves in the situation again where an institution says if we fail, our entire economy is going to collapse. >> larry: as general motors goes, so goes the country? >> that has to stop. because that puts all of us at risk. and a lot of people, a lot of everyday people and their pension funds lost a lot of money. >> larry: all right. the s.e.c. has filed suit against goldman sachs, accusing the firm of defrauding customers

in connection with the sale of a complex mortgage investment. that's what i meant by mortgages. named in that suit is trader fabrice tourre, now on paid leave from goldman. tourre defended himself vigorously in today's senate testimony. watch. >> mr. chairman, as you know, the securities and exchange commission recently filed a civil suit alleging that i failed to disclose to investors certain material information regarding a transaction that i helped to structure named abacus '07 ac 1. i deny categorically the s.e.c.'s allegations, and i will defend myself in court against this false claim. >> larry: what is your read on him? >> well, i mean, going after a guy named fabrice, come on. it's just like in junior high. essentially, they've singled out the frenchman. they've singled out him as the scapegoat for all of this. there is a lot of fingers that

were in that pie. >> larry: help me. were they investing in mortgages that they knew that people weren't going to make the payments on the mortgage? and they asked investors to invest with them. >> and as time went on, as they saw in '06 and '07 that things were getting pretty shaky, they started doing much more betting against these mortgage investments. >> larry: all this is alleged. they're denying a lot of this, right? >> i think they've denied everything, or sort of denied it today in front of the committee. but i think -- look, it's not just this one guy. it's not just goldman sachs. there is a lot of people and a lot of companies at fault here. and i think to make one guy the scapegoat, i don't think that's really the right thing. >> larry: back with more of michael moore. tomorrow night might have another opinion from donald trump. don't go away.

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and the unmatched life-saving technology of onstar to help keep you safe. from new energy solutions. to the designs of tomorrow. we invite you to take a look at the new gm. wish we could have done better in hindsight. but at the times we made the decisions, i didn't think we did anything wrong. >> larry: we're back with michael moore. congresswoman marcy capture of ohio and a number of other democrats are calling for a criminal investigation of goldman sachs. would you go that far? >> absolutely. all right. i think -- i think -- i'm happy the obama administration brought these civil charges against them. but i think there should be a criminal investigation. a lot of people's money vaporized. and i think when you -- when

that happens, i'll tell you. we spend a lot of money on our criminal justice system going after people that stick you up for $100. i think the american people got stuck up for a hell of a lot more than that. >> larry: goldman sachs pac people were big contributor to obama, weren't they? >> they were his number one private contributor, almost a million dollars. >> larry: so did this take some chutzpah on his part? >> i think so. >> larry: he had to sign off, i assume? >> of course. but it's like a lot of things with the administration. their heart is in the right place, and they go about 60% of the way, but they don't take that other 40%, which in this case would be in a criminal investigation also of goldman sachs. >> larry: goldman sachs is one of the targets in your documentary "capitalism: a love story." here is a clip. >> the treasury department, it's basically an arm of wall street. all the people in charge were from goldman sachs. >> we call it government goldman in the modern era. >> that's because there are now

numerous former goldman executives inside the bush treasury department, as there were under clinton. they worked as powerful lobbyists from the inside to abolish financial regulations while we paid their salaries. >> you hate wall street? >> i hate the fact that a company like goldman sachs can essentially run our government. the former ceo of goldman sachs becomes clinton's secretary of the treasury. a former ceo of goldman sachs, a different man, becomes the treasury secretary under george w. bush. bush had about 12 goldman executives. obama has three of them. timothy geithner's chief assistant is a former goldman guy, as is the undersecretary of state for economic affairs. it's -- there is a revolving

door as senator levin said, the lobbyists are out in the hallway right now. they're spending tens of millions of dollars to stop this banking legislation. >> larry: how do you react, michael, when people say this is a system, though, that did pretty good by you? >> well, i don't own a single share of stock, and i never have. >> larry: you made money in the system, right? >> i've made money because i worked and i had a few ideas and i made films about them, and i've done well. as i would do under a system that was more democratically organizeded so that not so many people had to suffer so that others could do so well. >> larry: are we down to one word here -- greed? >> that's what it is. it is greed. and capitalism has become organized greed. i think adam smith and the people who originated capitalism would be very upset at what it has become. and it's become a cover to protect that upper 1% that now has more financial wealth than the bottom 95% in our society.

>> larry: arizona's new immigration law. we can't wait to talk to michael about it, and we will, next. ibl. once it happened, i realized it's a different story. i'm on an aspirin regimen now because i never want to feel that helplessness again. [ male announcer ] aspirin is not appropriate for everyone. so be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. i was the guy who was doing everything right. i was wrong. talk to your doctor, and take care of what you have to take care of. [ male announcer ] learn moret at iamproheart.com.

a sudden thought. a lot of people may be thinking

they're seeing michael for the first time since he is without a baseball cap. this is historic for you. >> i think i might have come on here once before. >> larry: i don't remember. >> i woke up one morning and i just realized i had hair. i mean, you wear those things when you don't have hair. >> larry: most people realize that younger than that. anyway. >> it takes me a while sometimes. >> larry: attorney general eric holder says the federal government may challenge arizona's immigration law. what do you make of this story? >> good. i don't understand arizona. i mean i didn't think it would be possible for them to embarrass themselves more than they did 20 or so years ago when they were the only state that wouldn't have martin luther king day. this law of theirs, it's -- i don't know what to say. i don't know if you have read the language. my position usually is any time something sounds like dialogue from "hogan's heroes," it shouldn't become law.

they could just go up to anybody who looks hispanic in a state that is one-third hispanic and demand papers from them. this is not the american way. and i can't believe it will hold up constitutionally. >> larry: do you agree they have a problem? >> well -- >> larry: that they're trying to deal with a problem? you don't think they're a fascist state, do you? >> what is the problem, really? most of the immigrants who come here work very hard. >> larry: they should come legally here? >> if they're immigrants they work very hard. they do the jobs americans don't want to do. i think personally if any illegal immigrant they catch in arizona they should let him keep doing his job because he is adding for economy. for every one they catch, they should one goldman sachs guy to mexico. that's how i would try to restructuring the law. >> larry: an economic boycott and some people are in san francisco, trying to boycott arizona. boycotts can be effective, but

they can also hurt the people they're trying to hurt. >> that's true. but i think there was a similar boycott on the martin luther king day, and they eventually came to their senses. so yes, those boycotts do work. >> larry: would you boycott arizona? >> i -- >> larry: well, would you. >> i have family. >> larry: would you not stay in a hotel there? if you had a scheduled vacation there next week? >> i wouldn't vacation there. but i would go to their film festivals, i have family there. my girlfriend from kindergarten live there's. does that count? i don't know. it's a wonderful state. there is great people there. >> larry: are you surprised that john mccain -- >> i found that out on facebook, by the way. >> larry: are you surprised at john mccain's change? he was so in line with bush's kind of progressive immigration status. >> i think there is a general feeling of sadness about john mccain amongst all kinds of people. people used to think very highly of him. people who maybe disagreed with him, but respected him. and, you know, you always hate to see somebody in the final

stage of their career do crazy things. >> larry: this was tweeted to king's things. we have people tweet to us. >> okay. >> larry: ask michael if he thinks the new arizona law is the result of the federal government failing to reform immigration policy. >> no. i think it's the result of a bunch of bigots in the republican party of arizona. that's what it's the result of. and it's sad that they're behaving that way, and it makes the rest of us look bad as americans. and they should start acting like americans and not do that. i guess that's the simple answer. >> larry: did you ever consider immigration as a documentary? >> you know, i've thought a lot about it, mainly because, larry, we are always immigrants. we are all the children of grandchildren, unless you're an african-american or a native american, everybody else came essentially by choice as an immigrant. and we are the beneficiaries of what our forefathers and mothers

did. >> larry: correct. >> and we dishonor them. we dishonor them by treating the new immigrants so poorly. we're a big country, larry. there is lots of room for people. if you don't believe that, drive across kansas some day. >> larry: you have often fought for a protest as the american way, for standing up for what you feel. what do you think of the tea party? >> i think it's been given a lot more attention than it deserves. it's not really that big of a movement. it doesn't have that much support. >> larry: but they're doing what michael moore would stand up for. >> actually, they're not. the irony of their populous movement against the bailout and the banks and all that here is my question. and anybody in the control room, if you have some tape, roll it. show me one tea party demonstration that has taken place on wall street, or in front of a local bank, or any financial institution. if they're really so upset about that, why aren't they demonstrating there? instead what they're doing, they're running around with placards of obama with a hitler mustache on him.

it's a nutty, nutty movement. here is what i would like to see. i'm going to check this out too. on thursday of this week, a bunch of unions across the country have called for a massive rally in and march on wall street on this thursday afternoon. they're going to meet at city hall park, and then they're going to march down to wall street. i'd like to see if that gets as much attention as the 600, 1200 people tea party gatherings have received around the country. >> larry: i didn't know it was this thursday. >> you didn't know it. it's this thursday. these are major u.s. unions that represent millions of american workers. they're going to be marching on wall street. >> larry: what are they calling it? >> they're calling it showdown on wall street. >> larry: we'll ask michael about sarah palin next. introducing quattron quad pixel technology. it adds a fourth color, yellow, to the standard rgb color system, creating a vast array of colors you can't see with your tv's three color technology.

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good advice. what did i tell ya. [ female announcer ] for a noticeably whiter smile in just two weeks. new crest 3d white toothpaste. and try crest 3d white rinse. >> larry: it was a night you never forget. june 1985. i had a feeling that night that this show would make it. when you get down to who, what, when, where, why, here i am. i'm there to ask questions. do my best. >> larry: 25 years. who would have thunk it. >> can i just say there was something on your website about

what your favorite larry king episode of the last 25 years. and my vote seriously is down with you and marlon brando. >> larry: you liked that kiss and everything? >> well -- well, yes. >> larry: we're showing it. look at this. >> here it is. >> it doesn't matter what he says. >> larry: we're going to take phone calls. >> just leave it there. >> larry: how does this look? >> what? it looks like that. >> larry: all right. what changed you? what diminished the ainger? >> pain. >> larry: you can go to our website and vote for your favorite larry king moment now, which michael moore was kind enough to vote already. sarah palin. why is she so polarizing? >> first of all, i don't think there is anything i don't think with her standing up for what she believes in. and a lot of people like what she believes in. fortunately the majority of the

country doesn't like what she believes in. >> larry: how do you explain the phenomenon? >> because we're a big country. if you have 309 million people, there is a good possibility that there are a good 100 million who want to shoot moose from a helicopter or whatever else that they think that's cool that she does. >> larry: you think 100 million people want to shoot moose? >> i think they find that pretty hot that she is doing that. >> larry: i think a million moose would like to shoot up to the helicopter. >> being from michigan, i've always advocated when deer season comes, it would be a much fairer fight if we armed the deer. >> larry: you want a fair fight? >> i want a fair fight between the hunters and the deer. >> larry: a question tweeted to king's things. has moore ever had direct contact with obama? ever talked to him? >> no, i've never spoken to him. never had a direct contact -- is that the question? i've never had a direct, a direct contact. >> larry: yeah, that's the question. have you had an indirect contact? >> no. it's a long story that i'll save for my memoir.

>> larry: you were on this show the night before obama signed the health care reform bill, a major night. a bill that had a lot of problems, but still you wanted it passed. what is your biggest concern about that bill now? >> my biggest concern is that there is no real enforcement powers that are in the bill itself. and i -- actually, can i talk a little bit about this? about this contest that i had? i don't know if you heard? well, basically, if you have a copy of the -- if anybody has a copy of the health care bill. >> larry: this was your contest, right? >> yes. it was my contest. i announced it last week. because nowhere in the bill does it say what the health insurance company's punishment is if they deny somebody with a preexisting condition. it's one thing to make a law saying okay, you can't deny anybody. >> larry: there has to be a penalty. >> there has to be a penalty. so you read this whole bill. it's 2,000 pages long as the republicans are fond to point out. and there is nowhere in the 2,000 pages that it list nice actual penalty.

but there is a penalty. >> larry: you had a contest to find the penalty. >> yes. it was secretly embedded in the bill. but because they didn't really want the american public to know. >> larry: what is the penalty? >> if a health insurance company is found denying somebody because of a preexisting condition, their penalty is $100. a day. so if they have somebody with cancer that needs $100,000 operation, they could just sit that cancer patient out for a full year if they live that long, and their fine would be $100 a day, $36,000. >> larry: you're sure of that? >> not only that -- >> larry: we're going to take a break, come back. and as i understand it, you are going to call the winner? >> that's correct. >> larry: we'll be right back with michael moore. don't go away. what did we make better ?

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i'm donald trump. >> i'm melania trump. >> watch us on "larry king live." you better watch it, or your fired! >> larry: that's tomorrow night. right now a historic moment in "larry king live's" 25-year history and other historic moment. we've had so many. and there will be many more. michael moore is about to call

the winner of the "find the penalty" contest. >> that's correct. and another historic moment here. this is a contest that started last week on keith olbermann's show, but finishes here on "larry king live." >> larry: you upgraded it. >> yes. >> larry: i love keith. go ahead. >> you guys are both great. so here is the deal. so i have this great crack team of researchers that work on my films. and this is how they decoded the health care bill. this is page 81 of the health care bill. and it says that the ban on preexisting conditions will be governed by title 42 of the u.s. legal code of the public health service act of 1944. okay. then you flip to page 386 of the health care bill, and there is a bunch of gobbledygook that says it is amending 300 gg-22 of title 42 which is captor 6 a, subchapter 25 part a, subpart 4.

>> larry: why are you putting our audience to sleep? >> no, but this is how they do it, because they know the average american would fall asleep by the time they get to this. >> larry: how to be the point? >> anyways, i asked america last week, tell me where this is, this $100 fine. and mr. paul harwood out in portland, oregon found it and we're going to call him right now. so do you -- larry, sing some sinatra for us. >> larry: he is building up the tension. >> 35. there we go. >> larry: and where does he live? >> portland, oregon. what time is it there? >> larry: our time here. >> hello, this is paul. >> paul, this is michael moore. you're live on the "larry king". >> larry: why you laughing? that's not funny. it's a serious show. >> that was a laugh of joy. >> it was.

>> you are the winner. you found the $100 penalty. >> well, thank you. >> and i just explained the first part of it. so tell them exactly after you. >> larry: did you did you find it. >> where did you finally find it? >> well, i am segregated from the television. so i didn't see your explanation. but what i found was that the $100 fine is not actually in the health care reform bill. in fact, what the health care reform bill does is to modify some existing code, u.s. code 42. and there is a very obscure amendment in the hcr bill. >> i read all those subparts. >> okay. so it just -- i had to go look -- first, i had to find code 42. and then i had to look in there to find where there were penalties like that. >> larry: and the penalty is $100 a day? >> that's correct. >> you can find it on page 1,170 of title 42.

but that's where you have to go from one bill to a bill from 1944 back to an amendment. >> larry: now, mr. generous, what does paul win? >> what i offered was whoever found out where the penalty was, i would come and wash their car. and so they were to send me a photo of themselves, a picture of their car. >> larry: there is the car. what kind of car is it, paul? >> it's a pickup truck. >> what is it -- >> a nice ford f-150. >> that's a great truck, by the way. not an endorsement. >> larry: so you are a going to fly to portland, oregon. >> well, the next -- it's more like the next time i'm in portland, i'm going to go over to paul's house. >> larry: fly out and do it the next time i'm in portland. >> you think i should just get on the plane. >> oh my goodness, no. not this time of year. it's very cloudy and very rainy. not a good time to be washing cars. >> i am going to come to portland and wash your car for you. you are the winner of this contest, and you live in probably the coolest city in this country. >> well, thank you.

>> larry: congratulations, paul. >> thank you very much. >> take care. >> larry: paul by the way since finding that has gone a little problem with his eyes and has needed corrective lenses after looking for that. >> he is an engineer. >> larry: now, when we come back, michael will have a new contest with a potential another winner, right after this. nutrisystem's roll back sales event: lose weight and save money with our lowest price since 2004. i'm angie everhart, and i lost 34 pounds on nutrisystem. i lost 120 pounds on nutrisystem. enjoy four perfectly portioned meals a day with our best price guaranteed.

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>> larry: we have a quick update on hospitalized rocker and reality tv star bret michaels, whose medical crisis we discussed last night. according to his manager, he suffered a minor setback in his recovery from a brain hemorrhage. bret remains under 24-hour observation in icu, but he is in positive spirits and we hope to get better news soon. he was here last night to talk about bret. he is here tonight sitting in for anderson cooper. what is up, sanjay? >> we're going to talk about bret as well on 360. goldman sachs grilled on capitol hill. they're denying any wrongdoing in the crisis that brought the u.s. financial and housing industry to its knees. so is anything going to change on wall street? or is it simply lawmakers grandstanding for the cameras? we're going to be keeping them honest. then two chicago lawmakers,

larry, called for the national guard to protect their city as violence claims even more lives. i'm going to talk to an er doctor on the front lines of that situation. he is telling me the situation is simply out of control. and our series of special reports. this one the secrets of the high costs of medicine. tonight i'll talk to dr. phil mcgraw about obesity. it is becoming an epidemic, and it's costing every single one of us. those stories and more, larry, at the top of the hour. >> dr. sanjay gupta, 10:00 eastern, 7:00 pacific okay, a new contest. >> the contest we're going to announce on twitter. >> larry: on larry king's show. >> mine is mm flint, the town. i was watching bill maher a few weeks ago. he had on the former governor of new mexico. i believe his name is gary johnson. and gary, we were talking about the health care bill. and gary said something you hear a lot when we talk about health care and we talk about canada, that bad system they've got up there, socialized medicine. and he said, you know, those canadians, you know, they pay 40% in taxes up there.

and, you know, this was one of the many fallacies about canada and their health care system. it simply isn't true. now we as american pay on average about . tell me and larry, through either of our twitter account, what is the average tax that a canadian pays in federal income tax. >> larry: a canadian can win that in a minute. >> canadians are disqualified? they're not allowed to play this game and we know who you are. >> larry: what is the winner going to get? you will go wash his car? >> i think it's only wash you wash this winner's car. >> you. >> how about two tickets to a dodger's game? >> two tickets to a dodger's game. >> two tickets to a dodger's

game the next time you're in l.a. and mm flint is my twitter and king's things. the first one that gets it right. i'll allow for -- it's different in various provinces. british columbia has the lowest. >> larry: when is the automobile industry coming back? how about ford? >> profits you mean, coming back. >> larry: selling more cars. >> any workers coming back? have you heard that at all? no. >> larry: nobody's coming back? >> yeah. the talk about the recovering economy. it doesn't recover unless people are working. we have millions and millions -- >> larry: wouldn't it be logical more people buy cars. >> you would hope that would happen. they're doing better. >> larry: housing prices ticking up. aren't you encouraged by anything? >> i'm always encouraged to hear

good news. we also -- look, larry, my role is to give voice to those and there are still hundreds of thousands of people whose homes are being foreclosed upon. there needs to be a moratorium promised during the campaign of '08 so people have a chance to catch up. the obama administration has done a number of things to help, but, you know, for those who have done well in the past and are doing well now, things are a little bit better. but we can't leave all these people behind. a lot of people got thrown out on the curb during this recession after this crash and we've got to not forget them. they've got be brought back in. we have to find ways to create middle class jobs that give good wages so they can raise a family. >> will toyota recover

completely? >> sure. up until they became general motors, when they became the number one car company, they started acting like general motors with arrogance and trying to skirt the law and trying to get a little more profit and they're suffering for it. >> larry: is there a major corporation you like? >> that's a good question. where are we now? timewarner. >> larry: timewarner. >> my first movie, "roger and me" warner brothers. >> our time 25 countdown pick of the day is next. when i grow up, i want to write a novel. i want to go on a road trip. when i grow up, i'm going to go there. i'm going to work with kids. i want to fix up old houses. [ female announcer ] at aarp we believe you're never done growing.

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this year, we're celebrating the 25th anniversary of "larry king live," we have another of our top 25 moments. you'll be seeing a lot of these in the coming weeks. tonight's moment is one all of us here at "larry king live" are very proud of. we got to help a lot of people. >> tragedy is riveting, but at the same time, tough. so you're on a high because you know there's a momentous thing going on. at the same time, you wish it wasn't going on. it's conflicted feelings. welcome to haiti. how you can help.

mick jagger, jennifer lopez, ringo starr, ben stiller and many others. thank you. a great moment, grade idea, producers came up with it, raised $10 million. >> larry, auctioning your suspenders is part of the fund-raiser. >> start the bidding. >> $250, $300, $500. >> the challenge will be great. >> it's important for all of us to contribute. >> nothing else can do that. twitter can't do that. internet can't do it. world-wide television satellites can't do that. all the celebrities worked. they were happy to be there. it was a giant night for them. >> keep phoning in, keep phoning in. >> 53 years in the business and counting. still love going on. that was special. >> go to cnn do.com/larryking. k

your top moments beginning may 31st. you might win a trip to see me in person and take you to dinner, too. >> are you doing an imitation of me? >> i won't do it. i won't embarrass you or mostly myself by doing it here. >> okay. >> "larry king live," the king of controversy! >> larry: okay. do you think the republicans might take congress this year? >> no. no. if the democrats stay on the path that they've been on the last few weeks, finally, after a year or so, of pushing for the things that they were sent to washington to do, then they will hold on to congress this november. if they back away, if they don't go for the fight, if they don't make the republicans filibuster, make them read from the phone book for 20 days to hold up this wall street reform bill, let the american people see what the republican party is really all

about, that will do more to tell the american people who needs to hold on to both of these houses of congress. if they don't do that, if they try to act like republicans themselves, well then people aren't stupid when they go in the voting booth, they will go for the real thing, not the fake republican. >> what's the next michael moore film? >> that's a good question. i don't know. do you have any ideas? >> larry: well, immigration is certainly an idea. >> yeah. i don't know. something that's a comedy. i need to make something called mike's happy film, you know, where it's like nothing but solutions. no problems. >> larry: i have an idea. >> yeah. >> larry: the shortest film you've ever made. things i like. >> things i like. no, i like a lot of things. i already gave an endorsement to the ford f-150. >> larry: you did. let me get a call in for you. minneapolis, hello. are you there?

is minneapolis there? >> caller: hello. >> larry: go ahead. what's your question? >> caller: i'm curious if michael moore could think of a government system that would be between democratic and soci socialist, what would that be? >> larry: a balance of both, capitalism and socialism, we have less than a minute. what would work? we have that in a sense. we have social security. >> we have it to a limited degree. but european countries have a system more like that, a much better social safety net, they don't have so many people. we have 40 million americans functional illiterates, we have a high poverty rate, a violent crime rate they don't have. the reason for that, when you create an economy where the pie is divided a bit more evenly, where everybody has a slice of that pie, funny thing is,