tried to get rid of it. he eventually told police where it was and has been cooperating with authorities. sarah lee cnn, washington. the women's and men's lacrosse teams will play in the ncaa lacrosse game in honor of love. that's it for us. "larry king live" next. >> larry: tonight rudy guiliani, prime time exclusive. he led new york through the worst terror attack ever on american soil. he says the times square scare proves 9/11 is not over. how would he have handled it? is the united states more or less secure since president obama took office? the former mayor will not hold back. and john mccain unleashed. what's his plan for stopping the

people who want to kill us? guiliani, mccain next on "larry king live." >> larry: good evening. we've got breaking news tonight, an official familiar with the times square bomb plot investigation says that the suspect in the case, faisal shahzad felt islam was under attack. let's ask our guests that and a lot of other things. the former new york city mayor, rudy guiliani. what's your reaction of the plot, his idea was that islam was under attack, mayor? >> i guess that really answers the question that what's out there at the very beginning as to what the motive for this attack was. it's part of the islamic extremist situation that we're facing right now, and it sort of underlines the point that you made at the beginning, which is that september 11, which i think

some people want to forget about, is still with us. meaning, the same reasons and the same group or groups that wanted to attack and kill us then are still motivating people to do that, so this is now like the third one in less than a year. we had ft. hood, we had christmas, now this one. the last two, we have been fortunate that they screwed up in the way in which they tried to carry it out, meaning the terrorists. >> larry: when you heard about this, was your first thought a little deja vu? >> it sure was, like on christmas morning when i heard about the almost attack then. it brings back all the memories of september 11, the tremendous destruction and the loss of life, the families that have been affected by it for now almost a decade, and the fact that sometimes i felt over the last seven or eight years, as we

get further away from it, we kind of think it's part of our past and it isn't yet. it will be some day. some day, it will be part of our history like pearl harbor is part of our history, but this is an ongoing men as that we continue to face. these are two real wakeup calls for us, christmas morning and this one, but for the grace of god or good luck, we would have had a lot of people killed on both occasions. >> larry: the administration has been criticized for mirandizing the times square suspect and charging him as a civilian. did you ever waive a miranda, did you ever ask someone not to take it? what's your position? >> i think we got to learn from history. i think that treating these situations as criminal justice matters is just a mistake. it was a mistake that we should have learned from '93. we should have learned it later on. the bush administration treated some of these as civilian cases

because the military option wasn't open to them because there was such confusion when the military courts were first established. now, this is a more complicated situation than the christmas day attempt. that terrorist was a foreigner. this guy has american citizenship. that complicates it. at the same time, you can declare him an enemy competent. you don't have to give him miranda warnings. you can question him for a very long period of time because i don't think we're going to need his confession to convict him. there's plenty of external evidence. i don't understand what his confession has been revealed publicly. i don't know why so much information about his cooperating has come out. all it does is warn people that he might cooperate against to hide, run away, do things to protect themselves. as a former united states attorney, i never wanted this information out there until we

were ready to really move on it. maybe they're ready to move on it, i don't know. it strikes me as odd that you would kind of announce and proclaim for public relations purposes that he's confessed. >> larry: a very good point. in today's day and age, that information could have come from anywhere, couldn't it? >> yeah, but i think it was officially revealed. it could have come from anywhere. if it gets leaked, you don't have to affirm or deny it, it leaves a certain sense of confusion. when it's officially confirmed, maybe there's a reason for it, but it doesn't make sense to me that you would boast about the fact that he's confessed. >> larry: what's the fear in miranda? >> the fear is he's going to stop talking. on christmas day, that one made no sense at all, because he was a foreigner. he could clearly be treated as an enemy competent, he was talking to us for 50 minutes, you could hardly get all the intelligence you needed in 50

minutes. it usually takes days if not weeks to do that. you rarely get the truth right away. you got to test it. to cut it off in 50 minutes i think was a terrible mistake. hopefully the administration learned from that. we'll find out how they treated this guy, but that was a big mistake. >> larry: if there is a full confession and a guilty plea, there won't be a trial. could he get a fair trial in new york or would we have to change venues? >> i don't know. i don't know if you could get -- if a judge might be inclined to change venue just to preserve the integrity of the conviction. that would raise another issue on appeal. this one again is a close one because he's an american citizen. this brings up the whole question of khalid shaikh mohammed and why the heck they're still hanging on to the possibility of trying him in new york. i heard the attorney general say that the other day. i thought the president made up his mind to move it out of new

york, but for some reason, they're not making a decision about it. i can't understand what the delay is all about. >> larry: more on that and other things with the former mayor of new york. america's mayor he was known as, rudy guiliani. you're watching "larry king live." we'll be right back. this site has a should i try priceline instead? >> no it's a sale. nothing beats a sale!

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>> larry: we're back with rudy guiliani, the former mayor of new york. gop representative peter hock stra said this. he said our strategy cannot be near misses and calling near misses a success. being lucky is bad national security policy. that may be true. how do you stop a car bomber? >> you know, the reality is that you absolutely cannot be 100% perfect in doing this. that's not a political issue. that was true during the bush administration. it's true during the obama administration. this one, police work was excellent. i mean, there was an alert

citizen. there was an alert police officer. there's a bomb squad in new york city that's second to none. that police department, of course i have prejudice in favor of it. i have four uncles who are police officers. of course i had the honor of being in charge of it for eight years. they did a great job, but no matter how great a job they do, somebody can penetrate. i was in london, larry, when the bombing took place in 2005. i was a half ablock away from the liver pool station when the first bomb went off. the u.k. has the best intelligence. with all of that, they couldn't predict the bombing that took place. you can only be right 99% of the time. in these two situations, we got lucky. we got lucky in detroit and we got lucky here. the bomb didn't go off. what it means is, we have one thing to do, mayor bloomberg and commissioner kelly is absolutely

right. we need more cameras, more sophisticated cameras. london has far more than we do. we need them in new york. we got to give up privacy to protect thousands of lives. that would be a real improvement. >> larry: back to this question of the are trial in new york. in 2006, after al qaeda conspirators, mu saw we was convicted, you said i stand in awe of how our legal system works. it has to say something about us to the rest of the world. >> i do. >> larry: why not say something more about us by doing the trial where it happened? >> there were no military tribunals at the time. the bush administration set up the tribunals, they were questioned in court and challenged. it took until 2006, 2007 to

reestablish them. i thought our criminal justice system did as good a job as possible. i think we have the best criminal justice system in the world. there's no reason to give these people the benefit of it if you're going to have military tribunals. it makes more sense to try khalid shaikh mohammed in a military tribunal. the president has removed any kind of demonstration that this will be a fair trial from this whole situation by pronouncing that khalid shaikh mohammed is guilty and it is going to be convicted and i think is said is going to be executed. >> larry: have you ever said that in prosecution, he will be convicted or executed? have you ever said that yourself? >> i certainly never said the last part, whether i ever said somebody would be convicted, i don't think so, but gosh, i've said so many things, you probably could find a tape somewhere where i said something like that. i don't think i ever did. there were a couple times where maybe -- i think internally with

my staff, i certainly said we darn well better convict this guy. we got such a good case, if we lose it, we should be ashamed of ourselves. >> larry: front page today's new york daily news, a photo of faisal shahzad and the headline is how many more? what's your gut tell you about the seriousness of the threat of home grown terrorism in your town? >> my gut tells me that it's more than we would like to think. in fact, what is happening now is what i expected to happen after september 11th. what i was told would happen, that they would attempt these car bombings. this wasn't a suicide bombing, but they would attempt suicide bombings. so i always wondered why it didn't happen. i thought maybe some of the things we were doing in being so aggressive in dealing with islamic fundamentalist terrorism was helping. i hope we go back to being

somewhat more aggressive about the way we deal with this and not put so much fear in the hearts of the cia agents and others about the questioning they have to do and getting the information they have to get. this is all about getting intelligence. it's all about getting information in advance. and you know, the more you deter these people from their methods of questioning, the less information we get in advance. it's as simple as that. >> larry: we had experts here the other night saying car bombers are almost impossible, if a guy has a bomb in a car, it's almost impossible to stop them, isn't it? >> sure. you got to get lucky. the four things you have going for you, like we did in new york, the better chance you have getting lucky, catch him on a tape, see something suspicious, here we had a street vendor, saw something suspicious, tells the police. police brings in the bomb squad. you got to hope something like that is going to happen. if you had cameras and more of

them, doesn't mean you're 100%, but it does mean you're going to catch somebody before they set off a bomb. >> larry: we'll be right back with rudy guiliani on this edition of "larry king live." i have asthma. and that's what it sounded like when my symptoms came back. i'd get this tightness in my chest. like i was breathing through a straw. so i went back to my doctor again. we talked about choices in controller medicines. we chose symbicort to help control my asthma. [ man ] while it's not a rescue inhaler, symbicort improves my lung function, starting within 15 minutes. it helps give me the control to... [ inhales, exhales ] symbicort is a combination of two medicines. it will not replace a rescue inhaler for sudden symptoms and should not be taken more than twice a day.

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>> larry: we're back with mayor rudy guiliani. mayor, this seems unconstitutional, but senator lieberman says any american who joins a foreign terrorist group should have his or her citizenship revoked. >> there is a way to do that. >> larry: how? >> it really would get a big challenge in court. if you were, for example, in the second world war, if you were an american citizen and joined the nazi army, we could take your citizenship away from you. if you joined an enemy force that's at war with the united states, your citizenship can be taken away from you. the question is, with the court's consider this that kind of war?

we don't know yet exactly what kind of connection he had with al qaeda or with the taliban or with any of these groups. seems like he did, but i don't know the proof of that. we know his motive seems to be to serve the cause of islamic extremism, but we don't know he was directed to do it. we don't know he joined it, there are a lot of questions there. if we could prove he joined al qaeda or the taliban, you could then probably take his citizenship away. it would probably be upheld. >> larry: would you need some law to do that? >> there is a law. you would have to apply the law that allows you to take citizenship away if somebody joins the enemy. you would have, like lawyers do and courts do, you would have a debate about did he join the enemy, can you join that, is it sufficient proof? i don't know that i want to get into that right now. let's see how this thing proceeds. i mean, let's see how this proceeds as it's going right

now. >> larry: how's your successor doing? >> my successor is doing fine. i was very fortunate to have a successor that carried on a lot of the things i did and improved on them. he treated new york city -- i describe it this way. he runs new york city like a business, not like the old fashioned political enterprise it used to be. he does a good job. i don't agree with everything. we have differences on philosophy and ideas, but if you're asking me how his performance has been, i think his performance has been excellent. >> larry: what's your take on -- everybody is talking about it. arizona's new immigration law? >> you can get my thoughts on it. i think it's taking us away from focusing on what we have to do which is to get the federal government to stop illegal immigration at the border. i know it can be done. i hate to go back to, i sound

like -- i presented a good plan when i ran for president of how to stop immigration at the border. it's only 2,000 miles. we have the camera equipment, nighttime camera equipment, heat seeking equipment to put on the border. we can have 80 or so substations. that would leave the border patrol no more than 12 and a half miles from any point on the border. we need 16,000 to 20,000 border patrol trained officers to do it and you stop people from coming in. just stop it. just stop it and do it. >> larry: you're saying therefore you don't need -- you don't agree with this law. >> i understand the frustration that brought this law about. i don't agree with going -- i don't agree that this is going to help very much in dealing with the core issue of people coming into this country illegally and it creates such opportunity for debate and diversion. i would like to see the resources put into training the

16,000, the 20,000 border patrol. setting up the 80 substations along the border, putting in the high tech equipment, spending two to three years stopping illegal immigration. do not allow anybody into this country without their being identified. that's a rule. just carry it out. i believe if you did that, you could drop illegal immigration by 80 or 90%. i believe it would be easier to do than reducing crime in new york, which i did with bill bratten and a lot of other people almost over a decade ago. we didn't have the high tech equipment that they have today. >> larry: our guest is rudy guiliani, another second with him and his old friend john mccain will follow us. you're watching "larry king live." we'll be right back. of the world's most revered luxury sedan. ♪ this is a history of over 50,000 crash-tested cars. this is the world record for longevity and endurance...

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anniversary, june 4th. rudy guiliani figures prominently in one of our picks. watch. >> that is the world trade center. we have unconfirmed reports this morning that a plane has crashed into one of the towers. >> 9/11, i was home in beverly hills. everyone was sleeps. i clicked on the tv on cnn. i saw a building in flames. my life changed. television would change. america under attack, horrible images as terrorists strike against symbols of wet and power. >> how could that happen? terrible day. ♪ my city of ruins >> larry: two weeks later i found myself at ground zero. >> this was the north tower. this was the south tower. it looks like a construction

site. no big deal, but there's 6,000 people. that's the horror of it. >> larry: going to the burn center at presbyterian hospital where i had my heart surgery. what was the scene like here when you arrived. >> it was like a war zone. there was people all over the place. >> and then debris started following us and sparks. we were all on fire. >> larry: it all went through me. i felt that was my town. it's one of our top 25 moments. it is, i guess the top moment in mayor guiliani's life. something we will never forget. that night, two weeks later, you were on our show that night. a memorable, memorable night. never leaves you, does it, rudy?

>> everyday, larry, some of the images come back. sometimes horrible ones like people jumping out of buildings and watching people die who were hit by debris before the buildings came down. sometimes it was great memories like the construction workers showing up at 3:00 in the afternoon. nobody asked for them. they just showed up. one of them said to me, we're here because we can lift things because we're big, strong guys and we can lift things. it was dangerous to walk in there the first three or four days, because the fires were still going on. watching that picture of the firefighters put the flag up, that lifted my spirits and hearing about father judge being dead, people i had just been with, pete gancy, all these people i talked to shortly before. i long ago figured i better not fight it. i think about it and say a little prayer and move on.

>> larry: thanks, mayor. good to see you. >> always good to see you and congratulations on 25 years. >> larry: thank you, man. rudy guiliani, one of our favorite people. you can view our top 25 picks and vote for your favorite five. you can also enter to meet me and have dinner. you might get your hands on a one of a kind anniversary t-shirt. want to thank rudy guiliani of being part of "larry king live" history. we now welcome maybe the most frequent guest in the history of this program. senator john mccain. member of the homelands security and government affairs committee and he's in a battle to be renominated for his position as senior senator from the great state of arizona. what does this bombing attempt in new york say, if anything, to you about the level of terrorist threat in this country, john?

>> well, larry, i think that and the underwear bomber and other attempts that have been made and other plots that have been uncovered indicate that terrorist threat is out there, that there is a radical islamic extremist element that is bound and determined to train, equip terrorists to come to our country and try to do terrible things. by the way, i would like to, at the beginning of our conversation, say that our law enforcement agencies and agencies of government at all levels did a great job and we're very proud of them. >> larry: yesterday, you said it would be -- this is your quote, "a serious mistake to give the accused, faisal shahzad his marinada rights to find out what it was all about" he got his rights. he apparently has been talking. do you still think it was a serious mistake? >> i think we were fortunate. i think we were fortunate that he didn't insist on his rights

and call for a lawyer who would advise him not to give any further information. look, this is a terrorist act, larry. this isn't a traffic infraction. this is a terrorist act. obviously, so far, we have found out that there is a network behind this individual and it is our obligation to protect the security of this nation. there is a cause for public safety that allows people not to give -- read miranda rights. also miranda rights are not required if the agency that's interrogating does not plan on using anything that person said would be used against them. so, look, this is a very serious situation. we need to get the information that we possibly can to prevent another attack, and i applaud the work of our law enforcement agencies, but i also say there

was an element of luck, both with the underwear bomber and with this one. >> larry: what's your read on how the obama administration handled it? >> well. i understand there was a glitch. they lost him on the way to the airport, but i think 53 hours is an excellent job and they deserve our praise and appreciation. >> larry: can you figure out how being on the flow fly lisno fly he got on the plane. >> i'm told this particular airline didn't do its job and obviously, there should have been something better, but the fact is to go from a near disaster to 53 hours later intercepting this individual, i'm not saying it was mistake free, but they deserve enormous credit, including the nypd who i'm always very proud of. >> larry: you've been critical of the idea of trying khalid

shaikh mohammed in civilian court in new york. what about the possibility of trying faisal shahzad there, because that's where that crime -- where would you try him? >> well, i think we could get a change of venue for him most any place. we know that if you have one of these trials in new york city, it's a couple hundred million dollars in security. we all know that new york city is one of the prime targets for acts of terror. the mayor, all of the authorities don't want that trial to take place there. look at the disruption to people's daily lives, much less the security aspects of it. >> larry: our guest, senator john mccain. we'll be right back. he's at the russell row tonda on capitol hill. don't go away.

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>> larry: we're back with senator john mccain of arizona.

your dear friend, senator joe lieberman wants to strip americans involved in foreign terrorist groups of their citizenship. what do you make of that idea? >> i haven't had a chance to talk to joe about it. i have the highest respect and regard and affection for him. i just like to look at all the ramifications of such a move. as you know, he and i had an amendment that if an act of terror is committed, then that individual should be tried by a military commission, but i have not had a chance to examine his proposal yet. we really need to make sure that individuals are, who commit acts of terror are treated as what they are, terrorists. >> larry: can this be done, senator, frankly, and still keep our freedom and constitutional rights which we hold so dear?

>> i believe we can, larry. i think all americans agree that we are under a kind of a threat that we haven't experienced before in our history, but we can still preserve people's rights. there are going to be situations, for example, in new york city, first time i was on your show, i doubt if they had a single surveillance camera in downtown new york city. now they do. obviously, it's important to have it in london and other major cities in the world, but i think we can, and at the same time, meet this threat. if we betray our principles and compromise the fundamental rights that americans have, then frankly, the terrorists win. >> larry: should authorities be given the right to strip individuals on the federal terror watch list of the right to buy firearms? senator frank lautenberg

produced leng slags that would deny the transfer of a firearm when the back ground check shows the would be purchaser is a known or suspected terrorist? >> first time i heard of it, on its face, i think it's something we should look at very carefully. again, something that i have not had a chance to examine. obviously the intent is to keep weapons out of the hands of someone who is a terrorist. i support that in principle. >> larry: for your information, mayor bloomberg and police commissioner kelly endorsed it today. >> i would like to look at it. the devil is in the details in these kind of things. i would like to look at it. i really believe that we are doing a better job than we have in the past but i also believe we're a long way of safe. >> larry: couple of other

things. we know what happened in arizona has received a great deal of national attention, the new immigration law. we know you were one of the spearheaders of a concept of taking a new look at immigration, maybe people looking people who are already there, pay a certain amount of gained citizenship, yet you support this law which others have said they're surprised that you would be in support of this tough law when you seem to favor more moderation. >> actually, larry, their statements are patently false. the fact is it was 2008 when i was running for president i said we have to secure the borders first. i said that again as short a time ago as last year when we had a hearing in phoenix and we said we have to have 15,000 guard on the border. here's what's happened in the last few years. the drug cartels are in a struggle with the mexican government, 22,000 mexicans have been killed in that struggle. the violence of the drug cartels

has escalated dramatically. our borders are not secure. we have to have our borders secure and then move forward with a resolution, because if you don't secure the borders, then people and drugs and human smuggling and all the abuses will continue and so we have to secure the borders first. it's a position i've had for a number of years and it's clear that what is happening on our border is unacceptable and the fact that the president of the united states and the secretary of homelands security who in 2006, when she was governor called for troops on the border, we have to get the guard to the border. we have to secure the border. we can do it with surveillance personnel and fences. >> larry: you support this idea of if a person is suspicious, they have to show an id? >> that's just not the case of the law. you see, the misinformation put out by the liberal media is, to me, incredible on this issue.

it states very clearly there has to be reasonable cause. in other words, someone has to be speeding, someone has to be in violation, someone has to have had a reason to ap rehends or detain that person before there is any question about identity or ethnicity. that is very clear in the law. those who continue to say that it's not are deliberately falsifying the facts. and did i want this law to have to be passed? no, but the frustration of the people of arizona and our legislature and our governor are so angry because the federal government will not fulfill its responsibilities to secure our borders and we have to secure our borders. >> larry: one other thing. do you like the idea of your team, the phoenix suns wearing uniforms that say los suns? >> sure spanish was spoken in our state before english was. we cherish our culture.

it's added to the richness of our state. when drug smugglers come across the border and kill a rancher, wound a deputy with an ak 47, with the human smugglers subjectsing people to unimaginable cruelty, we want our borders secure. every citizen has a right of that. those who live with building security and all the security they have, maybe this ought to go to the southern part of our state and see our citizens that live there ought to have as secure and peaceful lives as well. that means securing our border. and we can do it. >> larry: we interviewed senator mccain earlier this evening. since then he reached out wanting to correct the number of national guard troops he's requesting on the arizona mexican border. he used the figure 15,000. he said he misspoke and meant

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>> larry: anderson cooper standing by. he'll host "ac 360" at the top of the hour. >> breaking news, search and rescue efforts continue across tennessee, mississippi, kentucky after cats strophic flooding in the south. 28 people killed in the region. 19 people killed in tennessee. hundreds of homes, roads bridges have been destroyed. the mayor of nashville says the damage could be upwards of $1 billion. the country has been focused on the gulf oil spill, this is a catastrophe. we're going to speak with the mayor and country music superstar, kenny chesney and others. an accident that maybe didn't have to happen if the government agency was doing its job instead of cozying up to industry

experts. having sex with industry experts. we're keeping them honest. new information on the times square terror suspect. why being on the no fly list doesn't disqualify you from having a gun. we'll talk about islam. we'll talk about the oil spill with bill as well. >> larry: anderson cooper, 10:00 eastern. we have a former islamic in an extremist group, a counterterrorism think tank. he was profiled on a reason he had igs of 60 minutes. that piece explained how he, a third generation british muslim was not only drawn to islamic extremism but became a recruiter for the movement. >> reporter: after working in ek land for five years, he was sent

a broad to spread the narrative, to pakistan and then to denmark. when he went to egypt in 2001, he was arrested in a post he was arrested in a post 9/11 crackdown on islamic radicals. >> joining us from london, what changed you, what took you from one end of the spectrum to the other? >> well, hello, larry. thank you for having me. i spent four years in an egyptian jail and during that time, i actually studied for the first time in my life, islam from its arabic sources and had the opportunity to discuss with former terrorists and former jihadists who recanted their ideology, who explained to me over that four year incarceration what they believed was islam was a modern ideology i refer to islamisms, a twisted perversion that justified self from islam and promotes a certain narrative of propaganda and key to that narrative is the

idea, america, this is a false narrative, the idea america is somehow locked in a war against islam and muslims. i realize all this propaganda was false through my studies and own discussions. when i left prison, i voluntarily and unilaterally left my position from the group. >> larry: why do these muslims buy that story? >> there are two factors to it. one, a lot of grievance this is a can point to, a lot of instances in politics and foreign policy to justify that narrative and twist it through the lens of their ideological framework and the second is religious theology is misinterpreted and the profile you sieve most people who join extremist islamic organizations tend not be from a religious background, secular background and are ignorant of muslim

theology. the bomb suspect was the sovereign a pakistani air force officer, didn't come from a theological background, nor did bin laden, nor a former doctor. >> larry: we're talking with maazid in london. we have breaking news from london. what's up? >> reporter: we learned more about the accused bomber. the accused suspect made a dry run the night before the attempted attack. what happened was he drove his white iz i zhuzhu to the time square area and parked it several blocks away and when the drove the pathfinder, selected a street at random and pulled over

when the car started to fill with smoke, got out of the car and then made a collossal mistake, because he realized he left the keys to his supposed get away car in the pathfinder. he then had to make up another plan and ran to a train station instead and took a train back north to his home in connecticut. >> larry: thank you, susan candiotti on the scene in new york. we'll be right back. first this. businesses of all ki. feel confident doing what they do best. by protecting your business, your property, your people. you've counted on us for 200 years. let's embrace tomorrow. and with the hartford behind you, achieve what's ahead of you. ♪

>> larry: we're back with maajid nawaz. i promise you more time because this is too important a story and we got a little jammed tonight. i apologize. you travel the world, speak to young muslims, attracted to one side, how do you bring them over? >> a key to what we do is challenging what we call the narrative. that is the propaganda the

islamic extremist organization are so adept at and that is foreign policies grievances and justification through twisting of religious theory through the stances they take. i call it a narrative, extremist narrative and we have to start challenging that. the world famous extremist think tank and we travel the world. sadly, i have to say currently both in pakistan and the united states, yes, there is an effective counter-terrorism strategy, but what is lacking, the gaping vacuum is there is no counter organization strategy. they have to become an extremist that operates 21 the law because it is extremism rather than individuals but a prerequisite to violence and there is no policy in place at the moment to challenge the extremist ideas. >> larry: how do you do it? >> you have to have the skills

to identify what the ideology is, how it differentiates from islam the faith and isolate it from the faith and the key tenants of the prop gan. the propaganda that america is at war with islam and other countries, yes, america went into iraq and afghanistan but they didn't go there because they were muslims. if this were a war against islam and muslims don't they know in america there is a mosque in every state and many british muslims and like hitler who started with a war against germany, if there was a war against muslims, it would start inside america. it's by picking apart these contradictions we start the narrative. there is no equivalent of a counter-terrorism of the think tank in the united states or in pakistan. my request, what i'd like to emphasize, the u.s. government,

u.s. media, u.s. civil society and u.s. communities and the same for pakistan, they need to start to devising a council review tallization strategy and not just a counter-terrorism strategy. >> larry: we only have a minute. is there a high percentage of muslim extremists? >> the narrative is spreading far and wide. there's a very tiny minority among muslims who actually turn to terrorist violence. what we are concerned about that this is a propaganda war against muslims. that doesn't translate in the majority of cases to violence but does provide the mood music to which suicide bombers dance wind we're so concerned about addressing that narrative. the media can play a role in not adopting then by nary polarize them or us view. by publicizing the fact that the first person to report this failed amateur bomber in time square was himself a muslim, who reported it, spotted the car bomb, a street