watch it grow. >> they're working with whole foods market. the academy will be hosting a former's market in june. that does it for 360, thanks for watching, larry king starts now. good evening, i'm tom foreman in washington, d.c., we are monitoring a situation up in new york right now. we want to take you to the triborrow bridge. it's more properly called the robert f. kennedy bridge. but it's been known for many, many years as the triborrow bridge. where at about 10:00 this evening, police became aware of the fact that there was a u-haul van that approached one of the toll plazas there, and according to a witness, stopped about 1,000 feet short of it. the driver ran away from the vehicle, one of the tollbooth workers went to the vehicle to see what happened, and said he

encountered such profound smell of gasoline, he backed away and called police. the police bomb squad has arrived on the screen. traffic has been closed in both direction for several hours now. you're seeing pictures from the scene there, and you saw a map a moment ago. obviously with the events of the past few days in new york, it's made a lot of people very nervous, this is a live webcam picture from the very area where this has happened on the bridge there. the triborrow bridge is what you probably know it as, if you've been to new york. a couple years ago, they changed the name to the robert f. kennedy bridge. this is from the bronx area heading into manhattan. right now i want to be joined by fran towson, she was george w. bush's homeland security adviser. she's been trying to get some information on all of this. fran, what do you know? >> reporter: i'm in new york this evening, and as it turns out, nypd sources tell me that

they did an initial inspection, they x-rayed it, they're now doing a physical visual inspection, which includes cutting a hole in the side of it. they don't believe this is a bomb. but it doesn't really matter what the cause of it is, the nypd would have reacted the s e same. paul brown is in command currently, and they're going to treat this thing like a potential threat until they can put it to bed. in other words, until they can resolve it. all indications are at the moment, that this is not a bomb, but they won't know that for sure, until they finish the visual inspection. >> and let me ask you very quickly. >> i just got an update. the visual inspection is all clear, it's not a bomb, and they're going to open the bridge at any moment. >> very good news.

thank you for joining us. >> fran towson, the former adviser to president george w. bush on homeland security. she's been in new york tonight. susan candiotti has been doing terrific reporting on this. what else do you know at this hour? >> we know that we have learned after calling u-haul headquarters that indeed they have been in touch with the authorities, the new york police department, obviously in an attempt to run the license plate on the u-haul truck. to remind our viewers, this happened about 11:00 or so eastern time, when according to the police, someone driving a u-haul truck with arizona plates on it, was approaching manhattan on the rfk bridge formally known as the triboro bridge, the name was changed just last year. and right as the driver approached the tollbooth, he got

out of the truck and ran off according to witnesses. the tollbooth operator approached the vehicle. approached the truck, smelled gasoline and immediately contacted the police. so as a precaution, police tell us they have closed down the bridge in all directions, and they have called in their bomb squad to take a look at what they have on their hands. of course, traffic is backed up in both directions, but we just talk r spoke with our colleagues who came across the bridge about a half hour ago, and described the situation there as fairly calm in her words. everyone staying calm in their cars as they were all backed up, but at least authorities certainly are trying to deal with the situation especially people who are a little on edge after what happened just last weekend in times square. when police broke up what they believe to be an attempted bomb attack on times square. >> that's susan candiotti also

in new york this evening. let's go over what we know. there's a little discrepancy on time here, as to whether this started at 10:00 p.m. or 11:00 p.m. i believe it's 10:00 p.m. the new york police department says they became aware of these events, the latest update we had, you heard the story from susan candiotti, from fran towson, the former chief homeland security adviser to president george w. bush, who says that police have now completed a visual inspection of the vehicle, and they have cut a hole in the side and looked inside, and they haven't found anything else. i was told somebody else is going to join us right now, driving home from laguardia, who is he now? very good, one of our senior producers. what did you see as you passed the scene? >> i was heading over the rfk

bridge, i was about to enter the bridge anyway, when police cars raced past my taxi, and literally brought traffic to a halt. they had traffic backing up, they pushed people off to the side. cordoned off the entrance, and cars that raced ahead seemed to be stopping around a vehicle that was in the far off distance. they made people move their vehicles completely off the ramp. cleared the area, stopped allowing any traffic on to the bridge. by the time i had been able to pull off to the side they had the ramp to the bridge and the bridge itself appeared to be completely clean, except for the police officers that were clustered down in the far end around a vehicle that was barely distinguishable from where i was standing. >> let me ask you this, rose. i've been a little confused as to the exact location. it doesn't look to me as if the vehicle was on the span. it's more on the ramp leading up to the span? >> yes, it appeared to me it's on a span that's leading up to

the ramp. it's as you drive to get on the bridge, the highway sort of separates. you stay on the span for a while, and you continue on to the bridge. >> but this was not -- what i'm asking, this wasn't over the main -- the big span that crosses the water? >> no, it did not appear to be -- it looked like it was in the entrance part. >> very good, thanks so much about that's rose arsay, who's helping us from laguardia. i want you to look at this map a little more closely, and give you a sense of where we are talking about. i hate to repeat it over and over, but if you've travelled to new york over the years, you've heard it called the triboro bridge. you may have taken it if you were going out to one of the airports there. that's where this incident has occurred tonight. you'll notice down below we marked times square, the big green space in the middle is central park. we wanted to give you a point of

reference there. because so many of you have been watching the events of the past few days as we have. no doubt your attention was raised as ours was. the triboro bridge is where the events unfolded tonight. we hope -- we were told a moment ago by fran towson that they were going to open the roads up again and let everything start flowing again. now that they've checked this vehicle out they've done an x-ray of it and believe they made it clear, and are able to say there's no threat there. this is a live picture now from one of the tollbooths in the very area we're talking about. we've been watching this for quite some time this evening, and watching movement around there, we see some people on foot, we've seen several police vehicles go by, and we're getting reports from the scene. so to wrap it all up and give you a sense of where we stand as we continue to watch this story, is that we believe that earlier

this evening this vehicle approached somewhere right around that little star is, perhaps that marker, somewhere in there, this vehicle is approaching the toll gates in this area, you see the wideness of the road there, as it heads left to right or right to left, it's sort of a diagonal. that's a tollbooth area. somewhere in that area, this vehicle stopped. susan candiotti, tell us what happened at that moment when the vehicle stopped? i think we've lost susan candiotti. we'll try to get her back. we did get an all clear from the nypd. the police department has said this is not the threat they feared it may be. they've given the all clear, which means no doubt they will open traffic there, for a lot of people that have been stuck, the bridge will reopen very shortly. and they will be towing that vehicle away very shortly, and

hopefully as the night goes on, we'll get the true story of everything that happened with that vehicle. the good part of the story is, however, that this does not appear to be a terrorist threat or a bomb of any sort, which, of course, many of us feared as we looked at this this evening. that's the latest from new york tonight. a lot of things developing, but we will keep an eye on it throughout the night. you can count on that. the bridge has been reopened or will be reopened shortly, and police say that the situation is under control, and this vehicle will be towed away, not a terrorist threat. just a very exciting evening in new york city as they dealt with this in the wake of other things. we'll be back with larry king and resume his program in just a moment. we're back with rudy

giuliani, the former mayor of new york, peter hotchner said, our strategy cannot be near misses and calling near misses a success. being lucky is bad national security policy. while that may be true, how do you stop a car bomber? >> you know, the reality is that you absolutely cannot be 100% perfect in doing this. it's not a political issue that was true during the bush administration, it's true during the obama administration. in this one, police work was excellent. there was an alert citizen, an alert police officer. there's a bomb squad in new york city that's second to none. that police department -- of course, i have a prejudice and favor of it, i have four uncles who were police officers, and i had the honor of being in charge of it for eight years. they did a great job. but no matter how great a job they do, somebody can penetrate -- i was in london when the bombing took place in

2005. i was a half a block away from the liverpool station when the first bomb went off. the u.k. has the best intelligence services in the world. only equal to israel. with all of that, they couldn't predict that bombing that took place. you can only be right 99% of the time. in these two situations, we did get lucky, we got lucky in detroit and we got lucky here, the bomb didn't go off. what it means is, i'll tell you one thing we have to do, mayor bloomberg and commissioner kelly are absolutely right, we need more cameras, more sophisticated cameras, london has far more sophisticated cameras than we do. we need them in new york, we have to give up a tiny bit of privacy to protect thousands of lives. that will be a real improvement. >> back to this question of the trial in new york. in 2006 after al qaeda conspirators zacarias mousseau

was con dikted in virginia, you said, i stand in awe of how our legal system works it can come to a result like this. it has to say something about us to the rest of the world. >> in moussaui's case, we had no choice, there were no military tribunals at the time. the bush administration, although it set up the tribunals, they were questioned in court, they were challenged and then it took until 2006, 2007 to re-establish them by congress. there was no other choice, and i thought our criminal justice system did as good a job as possible. i mean i think we have the best criminal justice system in the world. there's no reason to give these people the benefit of it, if you can have military tribunals. it makes much more sense to try khalid sheik mohammad in a military tribunal. the attorney general and president have removed any kind

of demonstration that this will be a fair trial by already pronouncing that khalid shaikh mohammed is guilty, he's going to be convicted and i think they've said he's going to be executed. >> have you ever done that in prosecution, have you ever said he will be convicted, he will be prosecuted? >> i certainly never said the last part. whether i said somebody would be convicted, i don't think so, but gosh i said so many things you probably can find a tape somewhere -- i don't think i ever did. >> front page -- >> i think a couple times int n internally with my staff i certainly said, they darn well better convict this guy. >> front page of today's "new york daily news" a photo of faisal shahzad and the question, how many more? what does your gut tell you about the seriousness of the threat of home grown terrorism

in your town? >> my gut tells me that it's more than we would like to think. in fact, what is happening now is what i expected to happen after september 11th, and what i was told would happen, that they would attempt these car bombings and -- this wasn't a suicide bombing, but they would attempt suicide bombings, so i always wondered why it didn't happen. and i thought maybe some of the things we were doing in being so aggressive in dealing with islamic fundamentalist terrorism was helping. so i hope we go back to being somewhat more aggressive in the way we deal with this, and not put so much fear in the hearts of the cia agents and others about the questioning they have to do, and getting the information they have to get. this is all about getting intelligence, all about getting information in advance. and the more you deter these people from their methods of questioning, the less information we get in advance,

it's as simple as that. >> we had experts here the other night saying, car bombers are almost impossible -- the guy has a bomb in a car, it's almost impossible to stop him, isn't it? >> yeah. it is. sure, you have to get lucky. more things you have going for you, like we did in new york, the better chance you have at getting lucky. catch him on a tape, see something suspicious. here we had a street vendor, saw something suspicious, police brings in the bomb squad. you have to hope something like that is going to happen. that's why i said if you have cameras, it doesn't mean you're 100%, but you raise the percentage that you're going to catch somebody before they set off a bomb. >> we'll be right back with rudy giuliani on this edition of larry king live, don't go away. jo

what did we make better ? communities. industry. energy. her. this. lives. how ? by bringing together... information. ... people ... ... machines ... ... systems ... ideas... verizon helps businesses worldwide...

including fortune 500 companies... find and achieve... better. better. better. better. anncr vo: ...you can get help gwith a flat tire....r. anncr vo: ...find a nearby tow truck or gas station... anncr vo: ...call emergency services... anncr vo: ...collect accident information. anncr vo: or just watch some fun videos. anncvo: it's so easy, a caveman can do it.

caveman: unbelievable... caveman: where's my coat? it was suede with the fringe. vo: download the glovebox app free at geico.com. >> larry: we're back with mayor rudy guiliani. mayor, this seems unconstitutional, but senator lieberman says any american who joins a foreign terrorist group should have his or her citizenship revoked.

>> there is a way to do that. >> larry: how? >> it really would get a big challenge in court. if you were, for example, in the second world war, if you were an american citizen and joined the nazi army, we could take your citizenship away from you. if you joined an enemy force that's at war with the united states, your citizenship can be taken away from you. the question is, with the court's consider this that kind of war? we don't know yet exactly what kind of connection he had with al qaeda or with the taliban or with any of these groups. seems like he did, but i don't know the proof of that. we know his motive seems to be to serve the cause of islamic extremism, but we don't know he was directed to do it. we don't know he joined it, there are a lot of questions

there. if we could prove he joined al qaeda or the taliban, you could then probably take his citizenship away. it would probably be upheld. >> larry: would you need some law to do that? >> there is a law. you would have to apply the law that allows you to take citizenship away if somebody joins the enemy. you would have, like lawyers do and courts do, you would have a debate about did he join the enemy, can you join that, is it sufficient proof? i don't know that i want to get into that right now. let's see how this thing proceeds. i mean, let's see how this proceeds as it's going right now. >> larry: how's your successor doing? >> my successor is doing fine. i was very fortunate to have a successor that carried on a lot of the things i did and improved on them. he treated new york city -- i describe it this way. he runs new york city like a business, not like the old fashioned political enterprise it used to be. he does a good job. i don't agree with everything. we have differences on philosophy and ideas, but if

you're asking me how his performance has been, i think his performance has been excellent. >> larry: what's your take on -- everybody is talking about it. we may as well get your thoughts, arizona's new immigration law? >> you can get my thoughts on it. i think it's taking us away from focusing on what we have to do which is to get the federal government to stop illegal immigration at the border. i know it can be done. i hate to go back to, i sound like -- i presented a good plan when i ran for president of how to stop immigration at the border. it's only 2,000 miles. we have the camera equipment, nighttime camera equipment, heat seeking equipment to put on the border. we can have 80 or so substations. that would leave the border patrol no more than 12 and a half miles from any point on the border. we need 16,000 to 20,000 border patrol trained officers to do it and you stop people from coming

in. just stop it. just stop it and do it. >> larry: you're saying therefore you don't need -- you don't agree with this law. >> i understand the frustration that brought this law about. i don't agree with going -- i don't agree that this is going to help very much in dealing with the core issue of people coming into this country illegally and it creates such opportunity for debate and diversion. i would like to see the resources put into training the 16,000, the 20,000 border patrol. setting up the 80 substations along the border, putting in the high tech equipment, spending two to three years stopping illegal immigration. do not allow anybody into this country without their being identified. that's a rule. just carry it out. i believe if you did that, you could drop illegal immigration by 80 or 90%. i believe it would be easier to do than reducing crime in new york, which i did with bill bratten and a lot of other

people almost over a decade ago. we didn't have the high tech equipment that they have today. >> larry: our guest is rudy guiliani, another second with him and his old friend john mccain will follow us. you're watching "larry king live." we'll be right back. at night. it wakes me up. i have allergies. ♪ you're right. i'm getting more air. -oh, yeah. -oh, wow! [ female announcer ] for two free samples, go to breatheright.com. communities. industry. energy. her. this. lives. how ? by bringing together... information. ... people ... ... machines ... ... systems ... ideas... verizon helps businesses worldwide... including fortune 500 companies... find and achieve... better. better. better. better.

[ male announcer ] we call it the american renewal. because ge capital understands what businesses need to grow. that's why today ge capital provides critical financing to more than 300,000 growing companies. ♪

dr. scholl's back pain relief orthotics with shockguard technology give you immediate relief that lasts all day long. dr. scholl's. pain relief is a step away. 100% natural nuts and granola in bite sized clusters. it's a little bit of nature... a little bit better. and nature approves.

granola nut clusters from nature valley. >> larry: we're back. in case you didn't know, this is my 25th year at cnn. we're counting down the top 25 moments as we approach my silver anniversary, june 4th. rudy guiliani figures prominently in one of our picks. watch. >> that is the world trade center. we have unconfirmed reports this morning that a plane has crashed into one of the towers. >> 9/11, i was home in beverly hills. everyone was sleeping, and i clicked on the tv, cnn, and i saw a building on flames.

my life changed. television would change. america under attack, horrible images as terrorists strike against symbols of wealth and power. >> how could that happen? terrible day. ♪ my city of ruins >> larry: two weeks later i found myself at ground zero. >> this was the north tower. this was the south tower. it looks like a construction site. no big deal, but there's 6,000 people. that's the horror of it. >> larry: going to the burn center at presbyterian hospital where i had my heart surgery. what was the scene like here when you arrived. >> it was like a war zone. there was people all over the place. >> i heard a sound and then debris started falling on us, and sparks.

we were all on fire. >> larry: it all went through me. i felt that was my town. it's one of our top 25 moments. it is, i guess the top moment in mayor guiliani's life. something we will never forget. that night, two weeks later, you were on our show that night. a memorable, memorable night. never leaves you, does it, rudy? >> everyday, larry, some of the images come back. sometimes horrible ones like people jumping out of buildings and watching people die who were hit by debris before the buildings came down. sometimes it was great memories like the construction workers showing up at 3:00 in the afternoon. nobody asked for them. they just showed up. one of them said to me, we're here because we can lift things because we're big, strong guys and we can lift things. it was dangerous to walk in there the first three or four

days, because the fires were still going on. watching that picture of the firefighters put the flag up, that lifted my spirits and hearing about father judge being dead, people i had just been with, pete gancy, all these people i talked to shortly before. it comes back to me every day, long ago i figured out i better not fight it, i just think about it, say a little prayer and move on. >> larry: thanks, mayor. good to see you. >> always good to see you and congratulations on 25 years. >> larry: thank you, man. rudy guiliani, one of our favorite people. you can view our top 25 picks at cnn.com/larryking and vote for your favorite five. you can also enter to win a trip to l.a., meet me, we'll have dinner. if that's not enough, you might get your hands on a one of a kind anniversary edition

t-shirt. i want to thank rudy giuliani, by the way of being part of "larry king live" history. we now welcome maybe the most frequent guest in the history of this program. senator john mccain. member of the homeland security and government affairs committee. and he's in a battle to be renominated for his position as senior senator from the great state of arizona. what does this bombing attempt in new york say, if anything, to you about the level of terrorist threat in this country, john? >> well, larry, i think that and the underwear bomber and other attempts that have been made and other plots that have been uncovered indicate that terrorist threat is out there, that there is a radical islamic extremist element that is bound and determined to train, equip terrorists to come to our country and try to do terrible things. by the way, i would like to, at the beginning of our conversation, say that our law

enforcement agencies and agencies of government at all levels did a great job and we're very proud of them. >> larry: yesterday, you said it would be -- this is your quote, "a serious mistake to give the accused, faisal shahzad his miranda rights until we find out what it's all about." he got his rights. he apparently has been talking. do you still think it was a serious mistake? >> i think we were fortunate. i think we were fortunate that he didn't insist on his rights and call for a lawyer who would advise him not to give any further information. look, this is a terrorist act, larry. this isn't a traffic infraction. this is a terrorist act. obviously, so far, we have found out that there is a network behind this individual and it is our obligation to protect the security of this nation. there is a clause for public safety that allows people not to

be read miranda rights. also miranda rights are not required if the agency that's interrogating does not plan on using anything that person said would be used against them. so, look, this is a very serious situation. we need to get the information that we possibly can to prevent another attack, and i applaud the work of our law enforcement agencies, but i also say there was an element of luck, both with the underwear bomber and with this one. >> larry: what's your read on how the obama administration handled it? >> well. i understand there was a glitch. they lost him on the way to the airport, but i think 53 hours is an excellent job and they deserve our praise and appreciation. >> larry: can you figure out how being on the flow no fly list, he got on the plane. >> i'm told this particular

airline didn't do its job and obviously, there should have been something better, but the fact is to go from a near disaster to 53 hours later intercepting this individual, i'm not saying it was mistake free, but they deserve enormous credit, including the nypd who i'm always very proud of. >> larry: you've been critical of the idea of trying khalid shaikh mohammed in civilian court in new york. what about the possibility of trying faisal shahzad there, because that's where that crime -- where would you try him? >> well, i think we could get a change of venue for him most any place. we know that if you have one of these trials in new york city, it's a couple hundred million dollars in security. we all know that new york city is one of the prime targets for

acts of terror. the mayor, all of the authorities don't want that trial to take place there. look at the disruption to people's daily lives, much less the security aspects of it. >> larry: our guest, senator john mccain. we'll be right back. he's at the russell rotunda on capitol hill. don't go away. i got into one of the most expensive schools in the country! [ male announcer ] when stress gives you heartburn with headache... alka-seltzer gives you relief fast. [ low male ] plop, plop. [ high male ] fizz, fizz.

i have asthma. and that's what it sounded like when my symptoms came back. i'd get this tightness in my chest. like i was breathing through a straw. so i went back to my doctor again. we talked about choices in controller medicines. we chose symbicort to help control my asthma. [ man ] while it's not a rescue inhaler, symbicort improves my lung function, starting within 15 minutes. it helps give me the control to... [ inhales, exhales ] symbicort is a combination of two medicines. it will not replace a rescue inhaler for sudden symptoms and should not be taken more than twice a day. symbicort contains formoterol. medicines like formoterol may increase the chance of asthma-related death, so it is not for people whose asthma is well controlled on other asthma medicines. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. with symbicort, my lung function starts to improve within 15 minutes, helping me... all day. symbicort is a good choice to help control my asthma. [ inhales ] [ exhales ] ask your doctor if it's a good choice for you. i got my first prescription free. call or click to learn more.

[ male announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help.

>> larry: we're back with senator john mccain of arizona. your dear friend, senator joe lieberman wants to strip americans involved in foreign terrorist groups of their citizenship. what do you make of that idea? >> i haven't had a chance to talk to joe about it. i have the highest respect and regard and affection for him. i just like to look at all the ramifications of such a move. as you know, he and i had an amendment that if an act of terror is committed, then that individual should be tried by a military commission, but i have not had a chance to examine his proposal yet. we really need to make sure that

individuals are, who commit acts of terror are treated as what they are, terrorists. >> larry: can this be done, senator, frankly, and still keep our freedom and constitutional rights which we hold so dear? >> i believe we can, larry. i think all americans agree that we are under a kind of a threat that we haven't experienced before in our history, but we can still preserve people's rights. there are going to be situations, for example, in new york city, first time i was on your show, i doubt if they had a single surveillance camera in downtown new york city. now they do. obviously, it's important to have it in london and other major cities in the world, but i think we can, and at the same time, meet this threat. if we betray our principles and compromise the fundamental rights that americans have, then frankly, the terrorists win.

>> larry: should authorities be given the right to strip individuals on the federal terror watch list of the right to buy firearms? senator frank lautenberg of new jersey and gop congressman peter king, they've introduced legislation that would give the attorney general the discretion to deny the transfer of a firearm when a background check reveals the would-be purchaser is a known or suspected terrorist? >> first time i heard of it, on its face, i think it's something we should look at very carefully. again, something that i have not had a chance to examine. obviously the intent is to keep weapons out of the hands of someone who is a terrorist. i support that in principle. >> larry: for your information, mayor bloomberg and police commissioner kelly endorsed it today. >> i would like to look at it. the devil is in the details in

these kind of things. i would like to look at it. i really believe that we are doing a better job than we have in the past but i also believe we're a long way from safe. >> larry: couple of other things. we know what happened in arizona has received a great deal of national attention, the new immigration law. we know you were one of the spearheaders of a concept of taking a new look at immigration, maybe people who are already here gaining citizenship. you support this law that others say they are surprised you would be in support of this tough law, when you seem to favor more moderation. >> actually, larry, their statements are patently false. the fact is it was 2008 when i was running for president i said we have to secure the borders first. i said that again as short a time ago as last year when we had a hearing in phoenix and we said we have to have 15,000

guard on the border. here's what's happened in the last few years. the drug cartels are in a struggle with the mexican government, 22,000 mexicans have been killed in that struggle. the violence of the drug cartels has escalated dramatically. our borders are not secure. we have to have our borders secure and then move forward with a resolution, because if you don't secure the borders, then people and drugs and human smuggling and all the abuses will continue and so we have to secure the borders first. it's a position i've had for a number of years and it's clear that what is happening on our border is unacceptable and the fact that the president of the united states and the secretary of homelands security who in 2006, when she was governor called for troops on the border, we have to get the guard to the border. we have to secure the border. we can do it with surveillance

personnel and fences. >> larry: you support this idea of if a person is suspicious, they have to show an id? >> that's just not the case of the law. you see, the misinformation put out by the liberal media is, to me, incredible on this issue. it states very clearly there has to be reasonable cause. in other words, someone has to be speeding, someone has to be in violation, someone has to have had a reason to apprehend or detain that person before there is any question about identity or ethnicity. that is very clear in the law. those who continue to say that it's not are deliberately falsifying the facts. and did i want this law to have to be passed? no, but the frustration of the people of arizona and our legislature and our governor are so angry because the federal government will not fulfill its responsibilities to secure our borders and we have to secure our borders.

>> larry: one other thing. do you like the idea of your team, the phoenix suns wearing uniforms that say los suns? >> sure spanish was spoken in our state before english was. we cherish our culture. it's added to the richness of our state. when drug smugglers come across the border and kill a rancher, the other day wounded a deputy with an ak-47, with the human smugglers subjecting people to unbelievable and unimaginable cruelty, we want our borders secure. every citizen has a right of that. those who live with building security and all the security they have, maybe this ought to go to the southern part of our state and see our citizens that live there ought to have as secure and peaceful lives as well. that means securing our border. and we can do it. >> larry: we interviewed senator mccain earlier this evening. since then he reached out

wanting to correct the number of national guard troops he's requesting on the arizona mexican border. he used the figure 15,000. he said he misspoke and meant 3,000. a former islamic extremist tells us how some are being radicalized against america. plus support for heart health. ( crowd roars ) that's a great call. one a day men's. [ female announcer ] it's red lobster's festival of shrimp... a chance to get everyone together for a night where everyone gets just what they want. combine two or three favorites, from new creations like crab-stuffed shrimp and pecan-crusted shrimp to classics like decadent shrimp scampi. it's everything you want in a night out. starting at just $11.99, during the festival of shrimp.

[ indistinct talking on television ] [ laughs ] what's that? [ inhales deeply ] that's last night's dinner. [ male announcer ] hate lingering odors? [ baby cries ] ♪ [ male announcer ] febreze air effects actually eliminates odors caused by bacteria and leaves a light fresh scent. febreze. it's a breath of fresh air. but, i'm a home. i'm always outside. i make being inside possible. look, do me a favor. get flood insurance. floods can devastate your home. fred, how you doing over there? i think this is gonna be a problem. see what i mean? hey, i know what i'm talking about. because i'm a home people. and, there's no place like me. [ female announcer ] only flood insurance covers floods. for a free brochure, call the number on your screen.

>> larry: anderson cooper standing by. he'll host "ac 360" at the top of the hour. what's up tonight, anderson. >> breaking news, search and rescue efforts continue across tennessee, mississippi, kentucky after catastrophic flooding in the south. 28 people killed in the region. 19 people killed in tennessee. hundreds of homes, roads bridges have been destroyed. the images are frankly stunning. the mayor of nashville says the damage could be upwards of $1 billion. the country has been focused on the gulf oil spill, this is a

catastrophe. we're going to speak with the mayor and country music superstar, kenny chesney and others. an accident that maybe didn't have to happen if the government agency was doing its job instead of cozying up to industry experts. evidence that some of these watchdogs were having sex with these industry executives, even doing drugs with them. we're keeping them honest. new information on the times square terror suspect. why being on the no fly list doesn't disqualify you from having a gun. we'll talk about islam. we'll talk about the oil spill with bill as well. >> larry: anderson cooper, 10:00 eastern, 7:00 pacific. joining us from london, a third generation british muslim, former leader of an islamic extremist group. he was profiled on a recent edition of "60 minute minutes."

that piece explained how he, a third generation british muslim was not only drawn to islamic extremism but became a recruiter for the movement. here's an excerpt. >> reporter: after working in england for five years, he was sent a broad to spread the narrative, to pakistan and then to denmark. when he went to egypt in 2001, he was arrested in a post 9/11 crack down on islamic radicals. >> larry: joining us is maajid. what changed you? what took you from one end of the spectrum to another? >> hello, larry. thank you for having me. i spent four years in a jail and actually during that time i studied arabic and islamic resources. people explained to me over that incarceration, they believed

what is islam is a twisted perversi perversion, a fascistic ideology that justifies itself from islam and promotes a certain narrative, propaganda, and kui to that narrative is that america is somehow locked in a war against islam and muslims. and i realized that all of this propaganda was false through my own studies and through my discussions. when i left prison, i unilaterally resigned my position from the group. >> larry: why do these muslims buy that story? >> there are are two factors, there are a lot of grievances they can point to, a lot of instances in politics and foreign policy to justify that narrative, and then twist it through the lens of their ideological framework. second is religious theology is misinterpreted.

most people that join extremists tend not to be from a religiously educated background, and, therefore, they are ignorant of traditional muslim theology. and the recent case is just that. he didn't come from a theological background, nor does osama bin ladin who's an engineer. >> larry: we're talking with maazid in london. we have breaking news from susan candiotti in new york, what's up? >> reporter: we learned more about the accused bomber. the accused suspect made a dry run the night before the attempted attack. >> larry: i heard this before. >> what happened was, he drove his white isuzu down to the

times square area and parked it several blocks away. and when he drove into times square in the pathfinder, he selected a street at random, pulled over. when the car started to fill with smoke, he got out of the car and then made a colossal mistake, because he realized he left the keys to his supposed getaway car in the pathfinder. he then had to make up another plan and ran to a train station instead and took a train back north to his home in connecticut. >> larry: thank you, susan candiotti on the scene in new york. we'll be right back. first this.

[ female announcer ] switch to swiffer wetjet, and you'll dump your old mop. but don't worry. he'll find someone else. ♪ who's that lady? ♪ who's that lady? ♪ sexy lady ♪ who's that lady? [ female announcer ] used mops can grow bacteria. swiffer wetjet starts with a clean pad every time. and its antibacterial cleaner kills bacteria mops can spread around. swiffer gives cleaning a whole new meaning. ♪ lovely lady welcome to progressive. nice calculator. i'm just trying to save money on my car insurance. you know, with progressive, you get the option to name your price. is that even possible? uh, absolutely. trade? and i still get great service? more like super great. oh, you have a message. "hello."

calculator humor. i'll be here all week. i will -- that was my schedule. the freedom to name your price. now, that's progressive. call or click today. recently a whole new kind of cloud came to st. cloud, minnesota.

>> larry: we're back with maajid nawaz. i promise you more time because this is too important a story and we got a little jammed tonight. i apologize. you travel the world, speak to young muslims, attracted to one side, how do you bring them over? >> a key to what we do is challenging what we call the narrative. that is the propaganda the islamic extremist organization

are so adept at and that is foreign policies grievances and justification through twisting of religious theory through the stances they take. i call it a narrative, extremist narrative and we have to start challenging that. and we're doing that, the world's first counter terrorism think tank here in london. sadly, i have to say currently both in pakistan and the united states, yes, there is an effective counter-terrorism strategy, but what is lacking, the gaping vacuum is there is no counter organization strategy. they have to become an extremist and extremists operate within the law, because if involves extreme ideas rather than violence. there's no policy in place at the moment to challenge such extremist ideas. >> larry: how do you do it? >> you have to have the skills to identify what the ideology is, how it differentiates from

islam the faith and isolate it from the faith and the key tenets of the propaganda. the propaganda that america is at war with islam and other countries, yes, america went into iraq and afghanistan but they didn't go there because they were muslims. they certainly didn't go into afghanistan because they were muslims. if this were a war against islam and muslims don't they know in america there is a mosque in every state and there are many, many american muslims, and british muslims. and like hitler, who started with a war inside germany, if there was a war against muslims, it would start inside america. it's by picking apart these contradictions we start the narrative. there is no equivalent of a counter-terrorism of the think tank in the united states or in pakistan. my request, what i'd like to

emphasize, the u.s. government, u.s. media, u.s. civil society and u.s. communities and the same for pakistan, they need to start to devising a council revitalization strategy, and not just a counter terrorism strategy. >> larry: we only have a minute. is there a high percentage of muslim extremists? >> the narrative is spreading far and wide. there's a very tiny minority among muslims who actually turn to terrorist violence. what we are concerned about that this is a propaganda war against muslims. that is spreading far and wide, that doesn't translate in the majority of cases to violence. but it does provide the mood music to which suicide bombers dance. and that's why we're so concerned about addressing that narrative. the media can play a role in not adopting then by nary polarize them or us view. by publicizing the fact that the first person to report this failed amateur bomber in time square was himself a muslim, who reported it, spotted the car bomb, a street vendor. >> larry: good point.