one american oceanographer told cnn we have seen more of the moon than the deep sea. the lead researcher in australia says the cameras will be sent to the gulf of mexico to monitor the oil on marine life. thanksks for watching "state of the union." i'm candy crowley. >> larry: tonight, the real mel gibson. we'll take an in-depth look at the oscar winner's career. what's it like being a movie star? is it what you thought it would be? >> no. >> larry: what makes him tick. >> the broads. >> larry: not that easy? or they are that easy? >> they're not throwing themselves out of buildings on me. >> larry: how he rose to the top. >> you have to adapt to your life. >> larry: what he told me when we sat down together. >> i hate the tabloids. in many ways they're pretty reprehensible. >> larry: mel gibson next on "larry king live."

-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> larry: mel gibson has been at the top of his profession for decades, despite the apparent personal problems that have been reported on in the past week. he has an incredibly successful track record as an actor, director and producer. i spoke to him in 1997. we were talking about the film "conspiracy theory." a little history of this film. how did this unusual script come to you? >> it was sent to me by the writer via the director. he said he had written it for me. i have my doubts. they usually like to flatter you on these matters. >> larry: they lie. >> i don't know. yes. okay. they lie. >> larry: looks like he had you in mind. >> anyway, this lying bastard sent me the script. before i knew it, i kind of liked it. i found it really intriguing, very well written. he is a very clever guy, so much so that i'm actually doing a picture with him he wrote and now he's going to direct. i think he is good. >> larry: and one of the unusual things about this movie is you don't know what to expect.

i had no idea what to expect because of that, because it wasn't a book, right? it's an original screenplay. >> that's it. >> larry: do you think it will surprise people? >> i hope so. i think that's the effect we're looking for, is to not have them expect certain things and for those things to happen or not happen. >> larry: can you briefly explain your incredible character? you can't say you ever played anyone like jerry fletcher. >> no. he was something of an enigma. >> larry: no "braveheart." >>, no, no, no, not that straightforward. with many good intentions, but i suppose he's a hybrid of like a bag person in new york and james bond, you know. >> larry: he's resourceful? >> yeah. he thinks he's james bond. in fact, i love the soundtrack on it because it's got this kind of really cheesy kind of james bond score. you're sure that's the theme muk music that's going on in his kind of warped mind. he seems insane. he seems almost dangerous. >> larry: and he semi is? >> yeah, there is something.

>> larry: he is a conspiracy nut. >> yes. >> larry: the whole first third of the movie is laughing. >> yeah. >> larry: i mean, you think it's an all-the-way comedy. >> absolutely. because he undermines himself. he says things that sound plausible and completely rip the rug out from under himself and sound like a complete wacko. he'll start talking about martian invasions or black helicopters. >> larry: and who designed his apartment? easily the most unusual apartment ever on film. >> yeah. the writer had a good deal to do with that, because it had to be a place that can self-combust -- >> larry: and not hurt anyone else in the building. >> right. it has to be fortified. >> larry: finding a character like this, and we'll talk about working with julia roberts. obviously this is difficult on that. how can we relate to that person. what do you do? >> relate to what person? >> larry: the person you're playing. you're not a whacko. >> with the, well, yeah, you find it. it's very difficult to -- to do anything that you have no

experience of that's not a part of yourself in some way. now, this could be something very recessive in you that maybe is just an imagining that you had, but it's your imagining. so that it's -- he was an unusual character and difficult to get at, tricky because he is someone who someone had the vault of his mind opened at some stage and removed some files. you see? >> larry: very well put. >> now he has to -- he kind of knows instinctively something's very wrong. he's mostly clutching at straws, really trying to find out who the hell he is. i mean, his memory has been erased. he's been manipulated manturian candidate style by all sorts of evil people. >> larry: deeply programmed. >> yeah. >> larry: you wanted to know what he was like before they programmed him. >> yeah. well, they had things like in the torture sequence. >> larry: he goes back and he visualizes? >> i had things coming out like marine chants, you know. >> larry: right. >> they'd be marching along. this is my rifle. this is my gun. all that kind of stuff. >> larry: cartoon characters, too.

>> i like that kind of stuff. i added that. i like that cartoon. >> larry: i did, too. >> i like those warner brothers jones cartoons. they're very cool. and i thought that was a real good parallel for what was happening to him, between the dog and the cat with patrick stewart and gary. >> larry: were you cast before julia roberts? >> i was. yeah. >> larry: did you have a hand in asking for her? >> yes, i did. i asked for her hand. >> larry: not bad. i would take the rest, too. >> we took the whole piece. yeah. no, it was -- i tried to work with her years ago, and for one reason or another, that whole deal just fell apart. and for the millions of reasons that they can in this town. and it was just a delight to work with her and get the opportunity and have it go off relatively spoothly. >> larry: this will give her two big hits this summer. >> hey, let's hope so. >> larry: oh, this is going to be a hit. "my best friend's wedding," she is on a roll. what's it like working with her? >> she's terrific. i think she's the queen of sub text, i'd say. >> larry: explain. >> well, she can convey a lot of

things and she doesn't necessarily need dialogue. but if she has dialogue, you don't realize how good she is until you're watching her really close. she completely cleans up any residue of anything that underpins what she's done. and she is fairly immaculate like that. and she is very spontaneous, intelligent, funny, and bounces off with a new -- if you throw her a twist, she'll go with it. i mean, it's -- that's very rare. and she's very talented. >> larry: driving in the car with you when she now doesn't like you, and thinks you have harmed her family, she's great in that scene. >> yes. >> larry: that's three emotions going on at once. >> she can do that. she can speak volumes with her eye balls, you know. >> larry: getting new york city to cooperate. this is some of the wildest shots of new york. the street scenes, how did they do that? >> they were very good to us. mayor giuliani, he was very helpful. >> larry: wide latitude streets. cabs rolling across. >> absolutely. but we do a lot of work on sundays.

>> larry: sunday nights, too? >> sunday nights, sunday days. you know, to make -- because it's a lot clearer then. you disrupt things as little as possible. but even apart from that, they were very gracious to let us use the 59th street bridge and block traffic and stuff like that. i mean, you're talking about a major artery in and out of one of the boroughs, you know. >> larry: you feel guilty? >> not at all. i don't feel guilty you see because it wasn't my doing that that happened. as far as the press goes, it is my fault. so i don't feel guilty. >> larry: mel gibson gets the rap. >> yeah. i feel like i took my stripes and, you know. >> larry: and casting patrick stewart. was that your input, too? >> i think he's great. >> larry: great villain. never seen him as a villain. >> no. a very funny story with him. he's been shoved under the water with a mop and all kinds of things are going on. and one of the grips, one of the lighting guys, andy from the deep south, and hes, hey, your billy shakespeare didn't teach you this stuff, did he?

where is your billy shakespeare now? but he still has that delivery. >> larry: that's funny. >> we're going to have to torture you, jerry. >> larry: we'll be right back with mel gibson, the director, actor, director, actor, who will find out what it's like to -- when you win awards for directing, what is it like when you're acting? are you -- i'll get to it. don't go away. or anything in the house... without blueprint from chase. create a plan to pay off large purchases... and save money on interest. does your credit card have blueprint? design your plan at 866 blueprint.

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>> larry: we're back with mel gibson. all right. what's it like to have directed, getting the highest awards a director can get, and then acting for another director? >> it's a relief, you know. it's a lessening of responsibility. i mean, i trust dick donner with -- i mean, he's a veteran. i would never, ever presume to have a better way than he has. i mean, it's a different way, i'm sure. and at times -- >> larry: you mean you never want to say, i'd do it this way? >> oh, but we do. it's that kind of relationship. we can go up and hey, dick, what if -- he'll go, yeah, good idea, kid. that's what makes him good because he is wide open. he always says, i'm just a traffic cop here. and i've learned from that. i think that's your function as a director, to take everyone else's talent and try to use the best of it and draw it all together. >> larry: jodie foster said she

likes directing better in that it's easier. you're in charge, the ball of wax is yours, you're the sign off, you're it. acting is more difficult. >> in a way, because you have to trust more. when you're the ringmaster there, there is -- it's pretty comfortable. i liked it. it's basically just storytelling. and if you can tell a good story and use those tools to do it, and have a lot of talented people to come and assist you do it, and if they all follow orders, it's great. you know? >> larry: do you like directing yourself? she didn't. >> no, i don't. and, you know, i'd have days where i wouldn't be in front of the camera, and i'd be very cheerful. i'd almost be high on the whole job, you know, the army sort of marching and all this. but when i'd have to get in front of the camera myself, i would become very cranky. i wouldn't like the experience. >> larry: also, she said you don't give that different kind twinge you might give to something as an actor when you're directing yourself. you take less risks.

>> yeah -- i don't know if that's true. i found myself to be very -- i wasn't as indulgent as i was. i was far less indulgent than i would normally be, because i was some socialistic form of direction where you say i'll only give myself three takes. and why should i have more takes than anyone else. and i did that. because of that, because i was less indulgent, i knew the story pretty well and felt more relaxed. >> larry: something you want to do again? >> absolutely. i'm going to. and this time i won't get in front of the camera. >> larry: just direct it? >> get some other poor slave to get out there. >> larry: something in mind? >> yeah, i'm going to do "fahrenheit 451". >> larry: that was a great book. great movie. that was a good movie. >> it was okay. >> larry: the german guy. >> oscar werner. truffaut was a great director, but that was not one of his great films. >> larry: the picture missed, but it was so interesting. it was a great failure. >> the premise is like fantastic, the whole kind of jackboot on flower sort of society, you know.

>> larry: burning books. >> oh, yeah. burning books or computers or whatever we have now. you've got to go into the future here. and there's a great book by bradbury, almost for what wasn't in it. he painted this picture and didn't explain certain things and it was even scarier. >> larry: why were they doing it? >> yeah. >> larry: you never knew why they were banning books, only that they were banning books. >> yeah. >> larry: it was bad for the people. >> absolutely. >> larry: who are you going to cast? >> wow, it's wide open. i probably won't get into it until '98, actually. cameras won't roll until then. somebody good, larry. help me. >> larry: yourself? >> no, no. >> larry: the stories, harrison ford said all he did was ask the "conspiracy theory" people to not open the same weekend as his film because it would be stupid, and they agreed. there was no threats. they agreed it would be stupid to have two blockbusters. agree? >> yeah. we'd cut each other's throats or maybe he'd cut ours. you don't know. nobody ever knows.

it's a brutal -- it's a bloodbath this summer. >> larry: it's a crazy business you're in. >> yeah. i've never seen a summer like it. >> larry: because? >> the market is just glutted. and there's a lot of stuff coming in. there are so many millions being spent on marketing. it's just being shoved at people like mad. and i don't know. i think the industry can start to cannibalize itself, you know. >> larry: but people go to the movies. >> they do. they do. but not enough to -- >> larry: isn't this a record-breaking summer? >> i think so. but it's also like more films than have ever been put out in the last ten years all happening in three months. >> larry: $90 million. how can you make it back? >> it's a riddle. there must be a way. i'm still trying to figure that one out. i think the whole idea is buy low, sell high. you just have to find a way to do it for less. >> larry: do you get very involved in your openings? what did it take in? are you nervous? do you check on saturday? >> that's an indication of whether it got out there. and it's an indication also you

know, whether you'll ever work again. >> larry: such security in this business. you may not work again if this one doesn't go. >> you usually get three strikes. but it's a good thing. >> larry: mel gibson is our guest. he stars in a terrific movie, "conspiracy theory." we'll be right back. right now, there's a nurse saving a life in baltimore. 20 minutes later, she'll bring one into the world in seattle. later today, she'll help an accident victim in kansas. how can one nurse be in all these places? through the nurses she taught in this place. johnson & johnson knows, behind every nurse who touches a life... there's a nurse educator... who first touched them. ♪ you're a nurse ♪ you make a difference 100% natural nuts and granola in bite sized clusters. it's a little bit of nature... a little bit better. and nature approves. granola nut clusters from nature valley.

look, i need to tell you. >> jerry, jerry, look at me. >> goldfish. no -- and i was in the belly of a whale. >> okay, just calm down. >> no they were in -- >> okay, look at me. i want you to put the gun down, please. >> no. there was a goldfish. there wasn't any gravy and i -- >> jerry. >> listen. >> just put the gun down.

>> larry: welcome back. we're replaying our interview with mel gibson from 1997. he spoke about his career as craft and being one of hollywood's most famous leading men. in the past we have not seen mel gibson take stands on issues. he surely has feelings as any person who watches the show knows, he thinks about thing. you have taken a stand recently with full-page ads everywhere, and you're up front about conspiracy. someone said, that was a plug for the movie or is this your heart? >> it's true. i was looking at these things. why wouldn't your heart go out to a community that has been sort of poisoned. >> larry: explain what this is your effort as far as in the ads? >> well, they're getting the residue of some factory, some big businesses like they're getting some poisonous residue. in the community that's affecting people's health. that's a good thing to get behind. >> larry: so they asked you? >> they asked me. you know, one hand scratches the other. >> larry: you said, make it a conspiracy?

>> i didn't say that, but i think they suggested that. >> larry: didn't hurt you didn't hurt them. >> doesn't hurt anything. >> larry: the only thing that throws you more is going to the movie since it has nothing to do with the town. >> no, nothing to do with it. i don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing for the town. but i think it's a good thing. >> larry: did you ever think twice about i don't want to get involved in issues? >> one always thinks that, you know, when issues come flying into your face. you have to be very careful. especially you have to be sure that you do it responsibly, you know, that you don't come out with an opinion before you really think it through. >> larry: you're not a joiner by nature, right? we don't see your name on the mastheads of 1,500 charities. >> no, i've never been a club member, really. the only club that i belong to is a cigar club. >> larry: are you therefore not clubby out here? >> not particularly, no. >> larry: you're not at the parties and morton's monday night is not your scene? no, no, i don't -- you know, i'll do it -- and it's fun when you do do it, but it's certainly

not a habitual thing. >> larry: what's it like being a star? what's it like being a movie star? is it what you thought it would be? >> no. but then, you know -- >> larry: nothing is. what is most different? >> i'm sorry. >> larry: what's the most different thing? >> the most different thing? >> larry: about what you thought and what is. >> oh, i see. the broads. >> larry: not that easy or they are that easy? >> no, they're not. they're not throwing themselves out of buildings on me. >> larry: what's the biggest detriment? what is the deficit? there is a deficit to everything. what is the deficit to it? >> the deficit i think is loss of personal freedoms. >> larry: you have no privacy. >> none. not much. so you have to adapt your life so that it -- so you don't go crazy. you have to find different ways to do things. which can be kind of interesting. but nothing replaces that loss of, you know, anonymity. >> larry: do you ever wear beards because you want to do something normal people do? >> i do the hat and glasses. i mean, you know, getting into a beard, it's pretty heavy duty. it's uncomfortable and --

>> larry: what about the tabloids, is that part of it? >> i hate the tabloids. show me anyone who has ever been a victim of theirs that does not. you know, they're -- in many ways they're pretty reprehensible the way they'll go about doing things. >> larry: the end justifies the means? >> absolutely. yeah. >> larry: have you ever sued? >> i never have. i've never done it. >> larry: some have successfully. >> i know. and i've thought about it, you know, and i thought, oh, geez. the time wasted, you know. actually devoting your time on their account is to me really like, i mean, like really negative. it's a very, you know, time consuming. and then they'll always drag it up and use it again. i mean, anything's good for them. >> larry: that's right. >> even the refuse. >> larry: it don't matter what it is, let's bring it up. when you read -- i recently read something i'm certain was a total lie. not even a half truth. how do you deal with that? like, that's totally wrong, you weren't even there.

>> it used to bother me a lot. i used to think those bastards, i'll get even with them. i wanted to go into the paper, whatever it was with a machine gun and start -- this is your imagination getting out of hand, of course. but now i think, i just have to go, observation, and just toss it over the back because -- i was talking to rupert murdoch about that very thing. and he -- >> larry: and he owns a few of them. >> yeah. he said to me, all right, he said, today's newspapers are tomorrow's fish and chips wrappers. and he's right. >> larry: of course gone today, gone tomorrow. people don't remember what it said. >> we're in information overload these days. who cares? really, who cares? because you feel personally about it doesn't mean anyone else does. it's a bit of nothing. it's fluff. >> larry: mel gibson is the guest. "conspiracy theory" is the film. it's a hoot. we'll be right back.

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do you know how to put one of these in? >> can't read it. it's printed so little without my glasses. >> you're no help. >> can you speed this up please? you may have nothing to do. i have things to do today. >> no, we can't. so will you shut up! >> license. >> yeah, jaywalking. license for jaywalking? >> i don't have it on me, okay? i wasn't driving, okay? i was walking. what do i need, a walking license now? >> let's just shoot him. >> get out of the way! i'm going to do it. we can make it look like suicide. get out of the way! >> video camera. >> i'm still going to do it. get out of the way! get out of here? not that way, this way! over there, go!

>> run now! >> larry: my guest is mel gibson. he stars in warner brother's "conspiracy theory." this could be one of the big ones. what was your -- the turning point in the mel gibson career of all the films? what was it that we all said now we know you? >> i'm not sure. but i think -- i think perhaps maybe when i started making american kind of action films like the lethal weapon thing. that's about 11, 12 years ago. >> larry: before that, you made what, "mad max"? >> oh, i did those early on. >> larry: so you were kind of a cult person then, right? >> yeah, big in asia. >> larry: that's what i mean. you were known, but not box office america. >> yeah, no, not necessarily. >> larry: how did "lethal weapon" come about? >> well, it was donner sitting around thinking, who will we get to play this guy? and they sent me the script. i don't know what went on before that. but i certainly got the pages and i liked it. and i had taken about a year off and decided to put on a hair shirt and wrap barbed wire

around my chest and sort of go out and manage the cattle. >> larry: you are a rancher. a gentleman rancher. >> absolutely. and i thought, well, i've sufd for a year. i might as well go back and see if i can do this right this time. so i went back to -- came back to los angeles and i had a really good experience. it was terrific. and i have worked with donner five times now. going into six soon. >> larry: so that helped a lot, having that director. you and glover had -- the rapport and chemistry you had with julia roberts you also had with danny glover in a different sense. >> yeah. >> larry: did that work right away? >> absolutely. and the reason is i think donner attracts people who are basically creatively very generous. and they both are. >> larry: explain that term. everyone is interested in film now, and we hear it said a lot. generous means? >> generous means that they try their utmost to make you look good. and in return, that's the kind

of a just a filial love kind of thing. >> larry: so if danny glover gives to you, he gets back from you. >> you give it back. oh, yeah, man. but it's not conditional. >> larry: there are giving actors who don't get back. >> that's right. there are people -- but danny would always be like that, whether he got it back or not. but i really appreciate that. and it makes a really nice atmosphere on the set. because there is love of the craft and love of the art involved there. and you're always just trying to make each other look good. >> larry: do you have to like each other? >> no, you don't. you don't have to like each other. but you do have to love one another. >> larry: the broadway theater about people not speaking that get on stage and magic. >> absolutely. you can do that. >> larry: you've had that? >> well, you cannot like somebody, but love them at a certain level. >> larry: the level of the part they're playing? >> whatever. or the level of what they do, their endeavor, whatever it is. you can like their table manners. >> larry: when you were directing, was that -- did you have to be generous there, too? were you a generous director? >> i think so, yeah.

>> larry: but you probably were an actor's director. >> i gave them all a lot of -- a wide range of things to let them explore things and talk about stuff. was there, like, as an ear if anybody wanted to talk. >> larry: all the action and comedy you do, do you prefer movies that are like moving, you know, there's high tension? >> i do. >> larry: as opposed to the light romantic comedy? >> yeah, i like something a little more kinetic, because i think on the fly that way you can effect a lot more. i like the physicality and the speed of something. i don't know why. >> larry: yet you also did "hamlet." we'll talk about that in a moment. our guest is mel gibson. he stars in "conspiracy theory" with julia roberts and patrick stewart. it's a dick donner film. we'll be right back.

>> there are more things in heaven and earth, horacio, than i dreamt of in your philosophy. but come. here, as before. never so help you mercy how strange i art may bear myself as i will here after think meat to put a disposition on. never to note that mean more to me. this do swear. >> do swear. >> larry: mel gibson's made a lot of headlines this week.

we thought tonight would be a good chance to hear from mel in his own words. here is more from our 1997 interview with him. >> larry: "hamlet." a major departure. >> yeah. >> larry: what made you take that on? to outstandingly surprising reviews. every reviewer was saying, this is good. >> oh, not every one. >> larry: there are some who didn't like it? >> can't win them all. >> larry: the ones that i read were good. >> i think it's that -- it's supposed to be the actor's acid test, isn't it? and it is. because you can't really come to any kind of final conclusion on that character. i mean, it's impossible. shakespeare made it like that, impossible on purpose. with a genius, he did that. >> larry: felton has said hamlet, you can play hamlet any one of 40 ways and be right. >> and be wrong. >> larry: and be wrong. you can play him gay. you can play him macho. >> it doesn't matter. there is a million -- a million different ways to go.

and every time you think you got a bead on it, you might find some kind of entry. he is a very elusive creature, hamlet. he'll get away from you. every time. >> larry: you wanted to do him for that challenge? >> well, i didn't even know what the challenge was. you could see it on paper. >> larry: you've not done theater, right? >> oh, i've done theater, right. i started off there. >> larry: have you done shakespeare? >> i've done shakespeare, but i've never done that. i always figured myself a little not ready for that, the headiness of it. it wasn't until i read an essay, and i forgot who wrote this essay, but it was brilliant what he wrote, that you weren't meant to come to any final conclusion with hamlet, that shakespeare at that time in his life was sort of pondering on the questions of life and the unponderable. the mystery of what is after life and all this stuff there are so many questions that he couldn't answer. he simply wanted to ask the questions without coming to a conclusion because he was going through some kind of cathartic experience in his own life. mid-30s or something. >> larry: what did you enjoy the most about doing it? >> what did i enjoy the most?

>> larry: it must be wonderful to say wonderful words. >> for sure. and to go through them again and again and again to try to extract something each time. and you would. you'd get something different every time. unfortunately, once they slap it all together, there is only one way that you sort of interpret it for that take. and i don't know. "hamlet" doesn't seem something that should be on film, or if it is you should do it again and again and put out a different film. >> larry: would you like to try it in theater? >> i would. i would. i don't know if have i the energy for it. my god, it's about four hours -- >> larry: would you like to try theater again? >> absolutely. i would. >> larry: someone could lure you to broadway with the right script? >> yeah. >> larry: you couldn't make as much. >> i know. but it's the most fun you can have standing up. >> larry: touching other bases. when did you -- you never had a big accent, did you? but you had an accent. i remember you. >> well, it changes all the time. >> larry: australian or what? >> i was born here, and i went down there. and i started -- >> larry: you were there what

years of your life? >> oh, from the age of 13 through until my early, mid-20s. and then back and forth all the time. >> larry: you picked up some of it certainly. >> absolutely. you had to survive. and some just gets in your head, the rhythms and the way of expressing yourself, because, you know, one wants to communicate with the locals. and one -- in fact, i counted myself very much one of them. >> larry: you were called an australian actor, weren't you? >> yeah, that's when i started my career, indigenous kinds of films. and they required that accent. so i did it. yet your muscularity actually adapts after a while. >> larry: that was an accent you were doing. this is your voice. >> pretty much. this is the way i sounded. >> larry: and in this picture, you really are a new york kind of cabdriver without overdoing the new york. >> yes. >> larry: he is from new york. >> that's right. >> larry: jerry is not from indianapolis. >> no. >> larry: he is definitely not from indianapolis. >> i wouldn't know how to do that.

>> larry: did you like him a lot, jerry? by the way? >> i did. >> larry: do you have to like your character? >> i think you do. i think you have to like him, even if he's, like the most evil creature. see, you can't make those kind of judgments on him. i mean, unless the character specifically knows that he's evil. and revels in it. >> larry: i think alec guiness said hitler didn't look in the mirror and say i'm a bad person. >> no. >> larry: you can't go in that way or you stereotype -- >> even a really bad distasteful disgusting character on the screen, if you can find some bridge that goes out there to the audience to create some sort of understanding for that creature, well, then you've done your job well. >> larry: our guest is mel gibson. he stars now in "conspiracy theory." >> how might i do it. he is praying. and now i'll do it so he goes to heaven. and so am i revenging. a villain kills my father. for that i soul sunder the same villain to heaven.

when he is fit and seasoned for his passage. why this is higher in salary not revenge. >> oh! oh, wretched state. oh! >> no. when he is drunk, asleep or in his rage, or in the incestuous pleasure of his bed, then trip him that his heels kick at heaven and that his soul may be stamped and black as hell to it goes. let's find out why. this malibu is sharp, has great mileage and offers onstar. the hundred thousand mile powertrain warranty caught my attention. it's the chevrolet summer event, which means the only thing left to decide is who drives it home. me! her. me! qualified lessees now get a low mileage lease on this malibu ls, a consumers digest best buy, for around $199 a month. call for details. the switch begins at chevydealer.com.

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what will you do without freedom? will you fight? >> against that? no. we will run. and we will live. fight and you may die. run and you'll live.

at least a while. and dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom! >> larry: we're back with mel gibson. he stars in "conspiracy theory." did you ever turn down a role you later regretted? >> no, i didn't. >> larry: unusual. >> yeah. i've turned down roles that other people took and did wonderful things with them. and i've gone, wow. >> larry: but you didn't regret it because it wasn't for you? >> it wasn't for me. they did a better job. it was terrific. >> larry: the biggest mistake you made? you made.

>> the biggest mistake i made? >> larry: was there a movie, i shouldn't have done this? >> i was going to say grinding meat in the nude. but -- >> larry: lucky they weren't around. >> i'm glad they weren't there. i'm glad it wasn't documented. >> larry: like explaining "they" in "conspiracy theory." which is hysterical. they and them. >> they. they and those. yeah. i forgot, where were we? >> larry: was there any movie you're unhappy about? >> am i unhappy about them? >> larry: in your career. >> some don't turn out as well as you would have liked. and that's for a lot of different reasons, you know. sometimes it's your fault. and i think early on sometimes i wasn't quite, you know, in the right channel to be able to understand story as i am now. so i always feel like i'm on my game now. >> larry: when you say you love the craft, you like the whole business? you like the studio, you like the stagehands, you like the feeling of making a movie? >> that is great, you know. i really do enjoy that. that's a very pleasurable

experience for me to go to work. and that's good. >> larry: the waiting around doesn't bother you? >> not too bad, if you can occupy your time with other things. and there's plenty. especially because i have a production company now. there's always some kind of thing you have to be reading or thinking about or developing. >> larry: or getting calls. something is going on. oh. >> oh, yeah. >> larry: was this a tough shoot? >> this was kind of average. >> larry: really? with all the new york scenes? >> yeah. this was average. i've been on tougher shoots. it wasn't an easy shoot. but it was -- the good thing is that i think if you're with a mob of people that you love working with, then even the tough stuff can be fun. >> larry: any accidents in the new york car scenes? >> any accidents? not a one. >> larry: none with the cab going across four lanes, up on the sidewalk? >> nobody was hurt. but i'm sure we'll get a lot of lawsuits. >> larry: it was funny. that's a great scene. >> which one? >> larry: the love scene. the guy in a cab who's not in love. >> oh, that's right. yeah. >> larry: you forgot this movie, didn't you? >> i totally did.

thank you. >> larry: what are you into now? what is on the -- "point blank"? a remake of "point blank"? one of my favorite film noirs. >> it is a wonderful old film, but we're not out to remake it. what we did is we got the book and we went to that. this is a great story. we're not going to remake the film. we're just going to tell a story from that book. the fact that it's been done before -- >> larry: are you going to direct it? >> no, i'm not going to. >> larry: you're going to star in it. there is nobody nice in that movie. >> no. it's heartless. that's what i love about it. >> larry: it's totally heartless. >> it's the purity and it's heartless. everyone is really venal and selfish. and it's like -- i like the tone of it. it's really gritty and dark. >> larry: what's the kick about being someone else? what is the kick about being jerry fletcher? >> all right. it's -- and i'm not quite sure how to relate this, but it's the same kick as it always was. and i remember the first time it

ever happened to me was i was involved in a situation where i had all the foundation and research down, and then i was put on my mettle by a series of questions fired at me, and i had to just be something else and give another impression. it gets you high. >> larry: really? >> yeah. it's very hedonistic. >> larry: high, no matter what the character is? >> yeah. i think -- if it's cooking. >> larry: so he can be a cop. he can be braveheart, he can be jerry. >> yeah. >> larry: it doesn't matter what it is. if it's cooking, you're high. >> yeah. and it's also -- i don't know. it's just good for your head, i think. it's good for my head. >> larry: do you ever think you're him? >> no, i never get there. >> larry: we'll be right back. don't go away. it's new beneful incredibites. uh-huh! it's just the way you like it-- made with wholesome grains, real beef, even carrots and peas. you love the smaller-size, easy-to-chew kibbles, and i love the carbohydrates for energy and protein for muscles.

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into revolutionary performance. one word makes the difference between defining the mission and accomplishing the mission. one word makes the difference in defending our nation and the cause of freedom. how... is the word that makes all the difference.

expect me to believe that someone came in here last night and some guy gave him something on to stop his heart? >> you tell me.

>> eye got to go downstairs for you. the cia wants to see your body. >> really? well, i won't be here with you get back, but i'll keep in touch. >> you're handcuffed to the bed, jerry. >> yeah, i guess i'll have to chew through my arm or something. it's better than hospital food >> larry: we're back with mel gibson. what was it like to be the man of the year at harvard? >> that was a hoot. >> larry: the hasty pudding. who was woman of the year? >> julia. >> larry: it was like advanced thinking on harvard's party. >> i don't know if it was advanced. >> larry: what did they do there? you give you -- >> they give you a pudding pot, a roasting and make you put on -- if you're the guy you had to put on a wiig and bra because it's tradition of an all-male e

revue. i thought the kids were incredible. gave it 100%. i was impressed by the organization and just who they were. these are smart guys. >> larry: did you accept right away? >> yeah, yeah. i heard it was a lot of fun. >> larry: some people don't like to be put on. >> hey, who likes to be put on. i had a great time. >> larry: the put-on is a great tribute. >> yeah, behind it. they're really saying, we want to have you here, if if we're giving you a roasting. >> larry: this program is seen in australia. what should we know about that country we don't know? >> wow. well, there aren't can kangaroo hopping down the main treat of sydney. >> larry: hard workers. >> yes, indeed. they call it -- somebody put it to me this way -- they call a spade a shovel, you know.

and -- >> larry: that's true. and there's so much land, right, wide open land between big cities? >> there is, most uninhabitable. but it's a big, vast country with all these resources in it. >> larry: do you feel away from things with you're down there, like out of it? >> to, you don't. >> larry: you look at the map and say -- >> it seems like a long way away but they're really hooked into the world. it's not lining like a remote place >> larry: computer and satellites but you don't feel like -- >> the world is shrinking and they're right there. they're very similar, the two countries. they had a very similar start. >> larry: they did, pioneers. do you like going back? >> i do. >> larry: you're a big hit there. "conspiracy theory" will be a major opening. aren't you a favorite son? >> i would hope so. you never know. i never presume these things

that it's going to be a big hit there or -- >> larry: do your films generally do better out of the country? >> better foreign. europe, japan, asia and all that. >> larry: why? >> well, all films do. there's more people. >> larry: and they like action and they like -- they're very attracted to the american named movie star, right? >> i think so. this is film mecca here, so -- >> larry: are you a film fan in. >> i am. >> larry: you watch movies? >> not so much anymore but i used to. i used to watch them a lot more then than now >> larry: why? >> they're jaded. they don't have the same magic. i know the tricks. >> reporter: when you watch a film load, you say, i would have liked to have played that? you don't watch as i watch? >> yeah. it's a different kind of watch. now, sometimes you're watching for the strings and looking up the sleeves and going, wow, that's pretty interesting how they achieved that.

sometimes, how the hell did they achieve that? you actually -- the good thing about being me is i can go and ask that person, how did you achieve that? they might tell you. >> larry: were you surprised at all with how you were received with "braveheart"? >> i was, i was. you know, i hoped it would do well but it wasn't necessarily a campaign strategy to sort of like go for the big boys. it was -- >> larry: no, but the tough critics would like your direction so much? hard to expect that of a film star who they tend not to want to like. >> i guess. i was pleased with it because i think, you know, that's your endeavor, really, to go out there and touch as many people in a positive way with what you do. you know, you're not making anything for an elite. if people approve, i mean, that's a reward, you know, that's your main reward really >> larry: we should tell you in our wrap-up "conspiracy theory," it has action but it's not an action movie. it has violent but not a violent

movie. it has humor but not a true comedy. how would we describe this vehicle? >> masterpiece. >> larry: certainly character-driven. >> very. it's primarily very character-driven. you know, it tells a story that the ends get tied up to. >> larry: it does. that's rolling dice sometimes in movies. >> oh, absolutely. look at the films that don't have -- >> larry: character hive driven -- >> and don't have a story. so, it's -- hey, that's what i liked about it. >> larry: is judgment the worst part of this business, picking what you pick? >> no. i wouldn't think so. >> larry: playing is still the toughest part? >> yeah, getting it right. even if you have a pretty good idea. i mean, there are levels you get, getting the right temper on it, telling the story you want to tell and having others tell

and having someone else tell what they want to tell. it's about communication and getting it right. >> larry: isn't it weird to have all this work, all this effort and be judged in a weekend? >> it is. it's very strange. >> larry: they know how well at mid fight you're going to do. they project. >> yeah, they project all over the place. project i'll all over the place. it takes planning, and it's over like that >> larry: if hershey doesn't sell a candy bar the first day, they don't panic and take it off the shelve. >> you have to twist and bend in the wind. >> larry: do you help with advertising a movie? >> i'm involved in a certain extent. s as you get up far enough on the corporate ladder -- >> larry: they let you say, i'm unhappy with this? >> yeah. most people are their own image kind of approval 37 that's a basic. >> larry: you would want to work with julia again? >> absolutely. >> larry: that projec