>> larry: pickens is back. on the latest drama in the gulf. caps in place. going to hold? what about the seat? the legendary oil man weighs in on the danger that could be lurking. could be looming, 5,000 feet below the surface. surplus the tea party movement tearing apart? it fires one of its most vocal supporters.

president obama rips into republicans on the economy. then, are we safe? a scary report about u.s. security says who knows? next on "larry king live." >> larry: we're going to learn a lot tonight. we welcome back one of our favorites, boone pickens, the legendary oil man, founder of bp capital management. those are his initials, by the way, not associated with bp oil. he advocates the oil for reducing u.s. dependence on oil. four new days of testing continues in the gulf mexico. this followed 87 days of oil gushing into the gulf. is it over? >> you remember our first meeting was 38 days. >> larry: 38 days. >> 38. >> larry: it was supposed to end and you said it's going to go another 38.

i remember. >> i think it will go a third 38. >> larry: well, it hasn't leak forward four days. why will it continue? >> well, they haven't killed the well. all they've done is shut it in. so they've got to kill the well. and that's going to take some more time. >> larry: will there be seepage? >> i don't think the seepage is coming from this wellbore. you have seeps on the bottom of the gulf. and this -- the one that they are concerned about is almost two miles away. >> larry: so are more leaks likely? >> no, i don't think so. i don't think so. no, i think -- i think we're ready. i would just assume they'd open the well up and capture the oil which they can do now. i would not -- i don't see any reason to keep the pressure on the well. >> larry: that pressure inside continues to rise slowly, right?

>> it's two pounds an hour or something. >> larry: what does it all mean? we're told that millions of gallons naturally seep from the ocean floor in the gulf of mexico every year. >> that's right. >> larry: so there's natural leaks all the time? >> yes. >> larry: so, what's it all about, alfie? >> well, i mean, this is not a natural leak. you know that is actually a blowout. people keep calling it a leak. the last thing it is is a leak. it's a blowout, and it's produced at maybe as much as 50,000 barrels a day. that's a lot of oil. and so they've now shut it in. and they are going to have to kill it. and they're going to have to kill it with cement. and that's going to have to come from the relief well. and the relief well is four feet eight inches away from the seven-inch case chicago is blowing out. >> larry: what worked? what stopped the leak? >> when they shut it in at the top. >> larry: why didn't they do

that 80 days ago? >> i don't know. >> larry: someone said they didn't have the equipment. >> well, i be that's part of it. i don't think they exactly -- i think they got an idea or two when they tried to do what they called a top kill. do you snrm. >> larry: yeah, i remember. >> i didn't think that had a chance. >> larry: you were on that night, too. >> yes. i told you it didn't have a chance. but they came up with some ideas about how to cut that riser off and then stab on top of it and then pump into it. they didn't pump into it. they shut it off by closing the valves on it. >> larry: how effect sieve the cleanup? >> i think they're doing a pretty good job. i had one of my partners was at destin this last week. and he said there wasn't anything on the beach. >> larry: can they collect the spilled oil and make money from it? >> no, no, that's not -- that's a loser because they are spending $27 million a day, and the -- and they get a million

dollars off the oil, at 50,000 barrels a day. >> larry: what is this going to do to bp? do they go out of business? >> they're not going to go out of business. they are the largest oil producer in the united states. 700,000 barrels a day and 2.5 billion cubic feet of gas a day is what they produce. so those assets alone, not counting their marketing and refining, are worth probably $150 billion. >> larry: would you buy their stock? >> i would, yeah. in fact, i own their stock. >> larry: so you didn't sell? >> no ijust bought it. >> larry: you, through all of this you, had confidence in that company, even though on this program, you ripped that company? you were pretty rough on that company? >> i don't recall that. i said leave them alone. let them fix it. and then investigate. >> larry: you said they goofed. >> well, i said it could be pilot error.

>> larry: you have faith in them? >> well, i think you've -- i am satisfied they are going to kill the well. and i think that you've taken too much out of the stock. i bought the stock at 36, so i'm a loser of a buck today. >> larry: what's the danger of other spills? >> you know, this is the first one in 50 years. and, you know, not to be repetitious, but it has been awhile. but, you know, two pilots qualified, crashed an airliner. you can sure have pilot error and sometimes you do have. you don't quit -- you don't shut down the airlines for that. so here, they should go back to drilling. >> larry: you don't agree with the moratorium? >> no, i don't. because this i do think you are going to find is probably a bad decision on the part of an engineer. >> larry: that will be the -- like pilot error?

>> right. >> larry: so you would call on the president to cancel the moratorium? >> could i? >> larry: would you ask him to? >> no. no, i am trying to get -- i am trying to fix the opec issue. so i don't want to show up in too many things trying to give somebody advice or help. >> larry: how much headway have you made there? >> good. i mean, we've made good progress. i think we'll have an energy plan for america before the year is out, and that will be the first energy plan america has ever had in 40 years. i think that will happen. >> larry: so a lot of firsts in this administration that apparently is not popular. although, the reagan popularity was only 41, 42 in his second year. >> yes. >> larry: you are saying good things will come from this. >> well, i am so -- >> larry: you are predicting good things. >> i am focused on energy only. and i know what i'm talking about.

and i don't want to -- i don't want to be distracted on other things. >> larry: i got you. you are a tunnel guy. >> that's right. i am on this issue. because i'm running out of time. >> larry: you are going to live forever. >> i'm not going to live forever. you know that. but i've got to get this problem -- i've got to get it solved. >> larry: boone called it right on one prediction. see if others come true. we'll ask some ahead. tten by wit aflac! is that different from health insurance? well yeah... ...aflac pays you cash to help with the bills that health insurance doesn't cover. really? well, if you're hurt and can't work, who's going to help pay for gas? ..the mortgage, all kinds of expenses? aflacccccccccc! it's the protection you need to stay ahead of the game... exactly! aflac. we've got you under our wing. aflac, aflac, aflac... aflac, aflac, aflac that's why we created the tide "loads of hope" program, a free laundry service that provides clean clothes

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>> larry: look how sharp t. boone pickens has been. may 27th, day 38, you said i bet we'll be talking 38 days from now. day 49 you said i just wonder what the evening news is going to be like after 60 days. after 70 days. this is all you. after 80 days. i mean, we're all going to be dizzy. june 15th, day 57. now everybody is thinking it's going to be august. i think it ain't going to be over until the middle of september. you still hold by that? >> maybe september 1st. >> larry: okay. get it close. all right. let's get your predictions on the relief well. by the way, do you think the people who have been damaged and they put aside $2 billion for them. you think bp is going to take care of people? >> i think they're going to try to. i think they are going to do what they said they were going to do. >> larry: so they'll hold to their promise? >> yes. >> larry: does the federal government owe something?

>> no, i don't see the federal government is not -- i think they were slow getting the skimmers in there, and that part, they were slow making some decisions. but i don't think the government owes anybody anything. >> larry: did we refuse help from other countries? >> i think we did. >> larry: was that a mistake? >> probably. >> larry: why do you think we would refuse someone -- >> i don't know. i don't understand it. we should have taken the help. >> larry: the original april 20th explosion, we covered this, which killed 11 workers. you think an engineer made a mistake? >> could have. >> larry: what would be -- describe to me, i'm a neophyte here talking. >> what could be the mistake? >> larry: yeah. >> i'll go pretty technical here. >> larry: try not to. >> we ran a tapard string from top to bottom. that wasn't the engineer's problem.

he ran it. he cemented and they -- >> larry: pushed the wrong button? >> no, i think that he was in a hurry. and halliburton recommended they run 22 centralizers, and they ran four. and that caused him a problem because the tapered string of casing is seven inch, the bottom part of it was probably against the wall of the hole, and when they cemented, they didn't get a cement job all the way around the casing. he didn't know that. i don't understand why somebody didn't run a cement bond log. they had schlumberger on the location and didn't do it. okay. i'll conclude this pretty quick. but he didn't get a cement job on the casing. and so when he went in to now leave the hole for the

completion engineer, he then needed to take the 14.2 pounds per gallon mud which was holding 12,000 bottom hole pressure that he was circulating that out and replacing it with sea water. good procedure if you had a cement job. but had no cement job, then -- >> larry: the mud is from the bottom, right? >> no, the mud is from the top. >> larry: the mud is from the top? >> sure. you mixed it up. it's 14.2 pounds per gallon. and so he has that to keep the well dead. and -- but he doesn't know whether he has a cement job or not. >> larry: is halliburton play any part in fault here? >> i don't think so. from my -- and i've had contact. i've had calls with tony hayward and i have talked to others that have worked on the well. and, no, i don't -- from what i

see, halliburton advised them to run 22 centralizers and they ran four. >> larry: the safety valves didn't work. how do they make sure that doesn't happen again? >> well, it's -- i'm not sure why they didn't work. and that i'm hazy about as to why the rams on the blowout preventer didn't function. >> larry: will, in your opinion, will we ever get, as you mentioned in air crashes, the proper agency comes out and investigates all the air crashes and eventually comes up with an answer. we are going to get an answer here? >> sure, you will. you'll get an answer. we'll know after they investigate where we -- where the -- >> larry: it seems hard to investigate underwater. >> you have all the equipment. you'll have all the equipment to look at. you'll know what you've got. they'll bring blowout preventers up and be able to take them apart and look at them. >> larry: we'll ask you a rating

of how the obama administration did. and then i want to talk about the pickens plan, right after this. >> bingo! got a new price on a flight to maui. junior, run the numbers! >> on it, dad. >> nobody move!! >> hrmmm? ♪ priceline negotiator >> i'm calling a family meeting. >> there's no time... we're searching hundreds of sites for the cheapest flight. >> what you're doing is setting a bad example for the kids. on priceline, you can shop all these flights, and get the best price guaranteed. and if you add a hotel or car, you save even more. >> shut it down, people! >> a family that saves together, stays together. waking up with morning pain can drain the energy right out of you. fight it with new... it combines extra strength bayer aspirin to treat pain plus an alertness aid to help you get off to a running start. try bayer am the morning pain reliever.

>> larry: we'll take a couple of calls. we want to cover a couple of areas with t. boone pickens. why does the pickens plan only call for reducing dependence on foreign oil. >> well, it's really even narrower than that. i want to get off mideast oil. i want to get off opec oil. because i think it's a security issue for the country. but you know, it's exactly what the president said. when he got the nomination at denver in july of '08, on energy, he said in ten years, we will not import any oil from the mideast. and i cheered him for that when he said it. and that's the oil we have to get off of first. >> larry: okay. all right. mr. predictor, who has been right, take me ahead 20 years.

it's 2030. how much dependence on oil from the middle east? >> according to what the leadership wants. >> larry: what do you think? >> i think we've got to go to our own resources. and we have resources to go to. >> larry: nothing from there then? >> i'll take out the opec first. the oil from canada and mexico is fine with me. but north america is okay. but i just as soon get rid of the rest of it. >> larry: natural gas is still your big thing, right? >> you have 4,000 trillion cubic feet of natural gas in the united states. and it's 30% cleaner than oil. it's cheaper. it sells for 25% of the cost of oil -- >> larry: is it seems logical. >> it sure does. you'd look like an idiot if we don't do it. >> larry: china has passed the united states as the world's biggest energy consumer. we're still -- >> we predicted that.

>> larry: we're still the biggest per capita, though, right? >> we are. >> larry: is china going to go way past us? >> sure, they will. sure. >> larry: in other areas, too? >> they'll go way past us. but we have got to get on our own resources in this country. and you have plenty of resources. when you do it you know, you've got a billion dollars a day going out for foreign oil right now. and two-thirds of the trade deficit is oil. so you start turning that around, can you imagine how many jobs it would create? >> larry: we use 19 million barrels a day? >> yeah, 20. >> larry: a call for t. boone pickens. bedford, texas. hello. >> caller: yeah, hi, larry. sure going to miss you. and mr. pickens, i've got my 84th car. i've got an oil lease i've signed for my land here. but i was wondering, where can i

get my car converted to natural gas so i can run my car on natural gas? thank you so much, and good luck on your project. i am really way -- so powerful behind you. >> larry: thank you. when can a car go on natural gas? >> you can get cars now if he lived in paris, france, he could go shopping tonight for a passenger car and look at 40 to 45 cars that are on natural gas. bmws, mercedes, gm, ford. all of them are made there. gm makes 18 and makes none in the united states. >> larry: why? >> because they haven't had a market for it. if there had been a market, gm would have made them. >> larry: he couldn't convert his car to it? >> i don't advise that. but if -- what i am after are the big users of diesel. and those are the 18-wheelers. there are 8 million of them. if i could get those 8 million on natural gas, i could cut opec in half. so that's what i am after.

what i want the president to do, two things. one, i want him to tell us that he remembers very well what he said about opec -- mideast oil, no mideast oil in ten years. his first step would be all federal vehicles that are -- that we buy, the federal government does, would be by federal order, would be on our resources. they could be on battery, hybrid, natural gas, butane, propane, ethanol. i don't care. just so it's american. the second thing i'd like for him to do is to go to the american people and say this has nothing to do with politics. it's all about us. all americans. in the next eight years, two of these ten years have gone, so he has eight years to make good on this. he has to put it in place. he isn't going to be here in eight years. but he's got to put it in place for it to happen. i think the american people

would rise to the occasion and love every minute of it. they would -- what he would tell them is you have to be on natural resource -- our natural resource in the united states. make your pick. we don't care. but just be on american resources in eight years. >> larry: another call. martinsville, virginia. hello. >> caller: yes, good afternoon, mr. pickens. i worked as a mechanic for over 30 years in a chemical plant. and we followed a lot of strict safety rules. also as a mechanic we did a lot of prevention maintenance work. my question is do you think that bp's preventative maintenance program failed? is it a big result of this disaster that we're going through now? >> no, i don't think it was a maintenance problem at all. >> larry: because? >> i think that -- i thing problem was, first, didn't run the centralizer. second, they got a bad cement job. and did not run the cement bond log. it had nothing to do with

maintenance. >> larry: you think they did all the preventative maintenance they were supposed to do? >> yes. >> larry: and you would release -- you would stop the banning of the -- you would do the -- do away with the president's order on that? i just want to clear that up. >> do away with the president's order on what? >> larry: on the moratorium on -- >> yes. i would go back to drilling is what i would do. i want to get on american dependence. >> larry: thank you -- >> can you give me 15 seconds? i'd night see you retire. >> larry: i'm not retiring. i'm going to do other things. i'm going to do four specials a year on cnn. >> that's great. i didn't know that. i'm not keeping up. i'm watching the bp deal a lot closer than larry. >> larry: there's an old milton burrell statement. retire to what? wouldn't know what to do. >> i am older than you purpose so it's -- >> larry: could you retire? >> no. uh-uh. i owe too much money.

thanks. >> larry: well, you could pass some over here. we could get an early retirement together. no, i'm only kidding. i'm going to be around. >> oh, good. okay. >> larry: i'll be here another four months. >> i know it. >> larry: you'll be back before i'm gone from here. >> i'll be back -- well, i'm not going to say that. i told you what my prediction was on the well. >> larry: maybe next week you'll be back. we'll get some washington observers reactions to everything, including to what he just said, next. ouch! ow! oops! it's neo to go!® ready. aim. protect. neosporin® gives you infection-protection, and pain relief. neo to go!® plus pain relief. every cut. every time. everywhere. ♪ then this song probablyn with mdoesn't apply to you ♪r whoo-hoo ♪ ♪ but if you're like most people i know ♪ ♪ you could use some help understanding your credit score so ♪

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made it really easy for customers to manage their car insurance policy online. well, you know that's why we have 24/7 support, so customers can call us anytime. [ in a robotic voice ] does not compute. error. [ all ] error. error. error. malfunction, babs. beep. boop. boop. ha ha. very funny. powering down. [ new guy ] we're not really robots. [ thomas ] i thought we were. [ male announcer ] call today or go to esurance.com. >> larry: i want to talk politics. dana lash is an organizer with the nationwide tea party organization. she's a blogger. michael reagan is chairman of the reagan group, son, of course, of the late president ronald reagan. mark lamont hill, professor at columbia university and contributor to the loop 21.com. and alicia menendez is senior adviser to the new democrat network.

we'll start with you, dana. the tea party leader mark williams and his tea party express have been expelled by the national tea party federation for racially insensitive comments that he made. did you agree with that move? >> i think when i first heard about mark williams, i honestly thought mark williams who? and i don't want to get all catty. i think this dude is a legend in his own mind. why all this attention is being given to like one person? he's never represented an entire movement. he is, i think, to himself perhaps, he thought he did. but never to me. never to anybody that i know. and i just think that he says a lot of what he -- i he think says a lot of what he says for attention, honestly. >> larry: mark, was it correct to remove them and kind of expel them? >> absolutely, it was. this was one of the few responsible moves that comes from the tea party with regard to issues of race. it's easy to dismiss him as just one irresponsible wayward member when in fact, we've heard these comments repeatedly. when you go to tea party rallies you hear the exact same remarks.

i'm glad to hear one person has been removed. what i'd like to see is an statement repudiaing the racist wing of the party. that's a step forward. >> larry: michael, here's some of what williams' wrote in his blog. a fictional letter from what williams called colored people to abraham lincoln. dear mr. lincoln, we colored have taken a vote and decide weed don't cotton to that whole emancipation thing. freedom means having to work for real, think for ourselves and take consequences along with rewards. that is just far too much to ask of us colored people and we demand that it stop. >> i don't know how you found mark williams. he's been floating through radio for 20 years. i know mark williams. he wrote it tongue and cheek and everybody took it very serious. they are pointing at mark williams like he's leading up some wing of the tea party movement. >> larry: tongue and cheek don't work. >> what? >> larry: it don't work in that case.

>> i don't know why you are taking mark williams so doggone serious. here's a guy who has had 37 radio shows in 12 years. and you are taking him like he is the spokesman and the president of the united states of america. he's not. he's mark williams. and you guys are taking him really too serious. >> larry: is he cuky? >> he's always cuky. he tries to raise the level so people call him. i'll tell you right now he's probably sitting at home laughing his butt off that everybody is talking about mark williams. >> larry: alicia is he right? are we making too much of this? >> i don't think so at all. in fact, i think a lot of what we saw from mr. williams we've seen from other members of the tea party. you had tom tancredo saying he wanted to reinstate literacy tests. if that's not code for racism, i don't know what is. i'm not saying everyone in the tea spaert racist. far from it. when you see racist elements which may exist in either party, which may exist in your church or where you work, then most of us when we see someone use the

"n" word, when we see someone be discriminated against, we refute it. we push those people away. you have to call into question why tea party leadership would allow this to exist under their banner? that is the real question. not one individual. >> would you name -- >> could she name one racist in the democrat party? >> i can't name them but i'm not going to say they don't exist. if they came out -- >> hold on. >> i wouldn't want them to be part of the democratic party. >> my whole thing here is that i'm very curious how people on the left can point out what they view as racism on the right when they don't repudiate people like, oh, i don't know, shirley sha raud speaking at an ncaap group going off about a member of the government saying that she actually was basing whether or not she was going to help somebody on the color of their skin. >> are you actually -- >> wait. your actually suggesting the democrats have sort of drawn up

some random republicans, some random tea party member who is obscure and you are pointing to a state level agricultural member as -- >> i'm asking for consistency here. >> there is consistency. i don't agree that you should deny someone access to resources based on their race. >> to be representative of the tea party movement is saying that every sing eel that jeremiah wright represents every single person who voted for barack obama. >> that's not what it's about. >> good, i'm glad. when you go to tea party rallies, when you talk to tea party members there's a significant sector of the tea party which espouses these beliefs. they've even done studies. >> really? >> a study thoift university of washington that suggests that people in tea party are 25% more likely to have negative attitudes toward blacks and latinos than other people. another study says while 23% of the american public thinks that statements about black angst and black frustration over rights and benefits is overstated. in the tea party it's at 51%. there is date to a to suggest that tea party members --

>> have you ever attended a tea party event? >> i've gone to four tea party events and i've worked with david webb who is a black member of the tea party movement. >> does the tea party represent your philosophy? >> there are many members of the tea party that do. >> larry: the party itself. >> i was at the original one in sacramento a couple of years ago covered by the media. i spoke there. i just spoke in ohio at a tea party. i'm speaking again shortly at a tea party. i talk about my values, what i believe in, what ronald reagan believed in and where we should go. these are democrats, republicans, independences, and they have one thing in common. they're really upset with the way washington is going. more and more government control over every aspect of their lives and they're mad and they are angry. you go back to thomas jefferson who said to his friend in new york, a judge. there needs to be rebellion on occasions. about every 20 years. we had one in 1980 and another rebellion today because of washington, d.c. that's what it's all about. >> larry: you think your father would be a tea partier?

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>> larry: dana, would you agree these inflammatory statements harm the whole party movement? >> the whole tea party? i don't -- mark williams, i think, is accountable for himself. i've never looked at him as a leader of anything. i've never looked at him as anything more than mark

williams. so i don't think that they -- honestly, i don't think that what he, does what he says hurtds the movement because i know the people nart this grassroots movement, and they're good people. and they are black and they're white and latino. 4 out of 10 of them, according to gallup, are democrats and independents. the big thing that i am looking at here is we have the exact same goals that people on the left do. we have a different way of going about those goals. i am looking forward to making -- to bridging the gap when it comes to educational inequality. to getting jobs. getting job creation going. and this back and forth bs that i keep seeing happen just isn't cutting it. >> larry: alicia, why don't we listen to that point of view. >> i think it's a wonderful point of view and it actually does need to be included in our discourse. she's absolutely right. tlair lot of hard-working americans who are angry, who are upset, who are a part of this movement because they are angry with both parties and they are angry with washington and they are frustrated.

>> larry: so why take it out on one cuky guy? >> they shouldn't be punished for one cuky guy, but i do think this is why it's important for the tea party to establish who its leadership is so that there can be a clear voice in these times of crise whois can identify for the rest of us who may not know what the tea party stands for and what it doesn't stand for because i think part of what we saw coming out of this is it was quite the cacophony over what the tea party is and what the tea party isn't. that's the best articulation i've ever heard of what this is. >> larry: should you have a national spokesperson? >> why? this is a grassroots movement, state, county, national. it's a grassroots movement. started in all these counties across the country. they have their own leaders of their organization. >> that's what's going to happen. >> larry: they're going to endorse democratic candidates across the country? >> i imagine this whole thing having to do about race is trying to discount them and have

people not pay attention to them because the democrats are scared to hell what's going to happen in november. >> that's why. it's not -- it's not the sign saying go back to kenya. >> but they're not endorsing anybody. >> larry: one at a time. >> they're not really endorsing anybody out there. >> larry: no one will be endorsed? >> as far as a national movement. i'm speaking to a group in a couple of nights. they are worried about the constitution of the united states. >> larry: so they're not going to endorse. >> just in the last few months we've seen major senate and gubernatoriol elections in california and south carolina, in arkansas and arizona where tea party membership played a key role in pushing forward republican candidates. and there's nothing wrong with that. i don't have a problem with tea party members endoergs whomever they want. let's not be disingenuous and act like this is a multiracial rainbow cloelition of americans. it's just not. it's also not -- there isn't a serious image and branding problem. if this is a universal move bmt

making america better, then you have to address these issues of race and racism. >> why? >> why? because these prominent -- >> why? why? >> because you made a decision -- >> because it will make you feel better? you'll feel better if they do? >> no, it doesn't because no matter -- >> this has nothing to do with race. this has to do with more money in the pocket. less government in my life. >> michael, the republican -- >> this has nothing to do with race. >> the republican party has been about shrinking government since your father was president and no one made these accusations. this is about a series of incidents and rallies and protests and statements made that clearly mark race. when you go to places and you hear lynch the president. when you see go back to kenya signs being held up by tea party members, it's disingenuous to say that isn't race. >> would you admit some of the signs that have gone up, hitler things and the like don't help your cause? >> when there are people holding them up, but those signs that we saw, we knew they were the tea

party crashers website. we chased off one of the tea party crashers in a rally we had in march in clayton, missouri. we chased off one of those folks. we've also chased off la ruche people who came to -- they had t-shirts and the signs with the hitler mustache and all of that stuff on barack obama. that never gets reported. there was also the report of people carrying guns to tea party rallies. except one of those was a man of color. but he was conveniently cropped out. so it only showed his waist where he had a -- >> that's a problem. >> ak-47. >> that's a huge problem. >> are you saying there's a media bias against tea parties? >> yeah. >> because it seems like they are getting a lot of coverage. >> they get a lot of coverage. >> you have a lot of racists. >> we're with you. >> when people call them racists, they get coverage. >> where was the outrage, larry? i don't remember -- i don't remember these kinds of shows taking place when the same kind of signs were showing up about

george bush, calling him hitler. calling him -- >> i disagree. >> i don't remember all the shows based on george bush and all of those accusations. >> michael, i was here on larry king talking about those signs. i said that was wrong, too. my issue again isn't offering political disagreement. even if it's spirited. even if i sometimes find it a little bit offensive. that's what free speech is about. let's not pretend these are not racially inflammatory statements. >> larry: all right. let me get in a break. >> and they kicked him out of the party. so what's the problem? >> larry: we'll be right back after this. more on car insuran? does a former drill sergeant make a terrible therapist? patient: and that's why yellow makes me sad. i think. sarge: that's interesting. you know what makes me sad? you do! maybe we should chug on over to mambie pambie land where maybe we can find some self-confidence for you. ya jackwagon! tissue? crybaby. geico.

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>> larry: other things on the platter. the senate is set to consider a bill tomorrow to extend the deadline to file for unemployment benefits. the president ripped into republicans today for holding up a bill to extend those benefits. let's watch. >> after years of championing policies that turned a record surplus into a massive deficit,

the same people who didn't have any problems spending hundreds of billions of dollars on tax breaks for the wealthiest americans are now saying we shouldn't offer relief to middle class americans like jim or leslie or denise who really need help. >> larry: we'll have the group comment on that. but first, let me check in with anderson cooper. he'll host "ac 360 at at the top of the hour. what's the lead, anderson? >> breaking news tonight. a new option on the table to permanently seal the well in the gulf called the static kill. we're drilling mud is pumped into the capped well. we'll show you what the risks are and why it's now being considered. also, we're still trying to piece together exactly what happened the day the deepwater horizon rig exploded. tonight, more pieces of the puzzle. new pieces. my exclusive interview with three fishermen who heard the mayday call from the deepwater horizon and were among the first on the scene when they saw and heard and how they say it's forever changed their lives. that story and our breaking news at the top of the hour, larry. >> larry: thanks.

anderson cooper, 10:00 eastern, 7:00 pacific. dana, the bill is going to cost $33 billion. republicans have blocked a vote several times. it looks like it's probably going to pass tomorrow. don't you think we should extend unemployment benefits? i mean, who needs it more? >> i want to preface this by saying i don't know any republican who is against unemployment benefits. i think what the argument is here is what you just said. extending them. 99 weeks now. how far are we going to extend these? when people talk about having compassion for those who fell up on hard times. i know. i was raised by a single mother who worked three jobs. i know where a lot of americans are. but i look back in 1983 when we had 10.8% unemployment, record unemployment. benefits just 42 weeks. i keep wondering how long these are going to be extended and why are we not looking at job creation because job creation right now is where the problem is. i think -- >> larry: alicia -- well said. >> i don't think those two items of mutually exclusive.

congress is focused on job creation. they need to get more serious about job creation. in the meanwhile, we have to be realistic about the fact that for every job, there are five applicants and in the short term, while we're waiting for that job creation to kick in, we have to give these people a way to put food on the table. now part of what i don't understand when republicans start talking about the deficit is that, if we really want to tackle the deficit, we have to get the economy back on track, and they had no trouble extending these tax cuts which would actually add to the deficit 25% more than the unemployment benefits. it's hard to believe is that they're doing this for anything other than political reasons. >> and the democrats aren't trying to extend them for political reasons at all. >> this could be a bipartisan thing. >> if someone's out of work, you want to help them -- >> is it helping washington,

d.c.? washington, d.c., is debating it, right? >> it is aptly put -- here's what the republicans are saying, listen, 33 billion is fine many but give us the cuts to be able to get there. >> as in what? what are we going to cut. >> i didn't say a word when you all were talking. barack obama said the democrats gave us the -- oar the republicans gave us the deficit. they left us $200 billion in debt, we're now $1.4 trillion in debt. the republicans say, we'll give you the 33 billion, but find a place where we can make cuts so we can do it. >> i think michael's right on this than dana. i don't think the point is extending unemployment benefits, they want to find a way to cut the deficit. the republican party hasn't given us any good ideas on how

that can happen. the republicans are pushing back because it's election season. barack obama is publicly spanking the republicans right now, because he's fighting for worker's rights. yes, republicans have been absolutely disastrous in bloating spending and refusing to raise taxes on the wealthy. he's also been part of the problem. he's bailed out wall street, allowed speculators and predators to live despite his wall street reforms and huge bailouts. everyone should be blamed for this. barack obama is doing the best he can right now, unemployment benefits are a necessary part to sustain workers. don't think people are going to take the unemployment check like welfare and not go out and work. >> this is an industry that's scared to death right now of washington, d.c., that's why they're not creating jobs, they don't know when the next shoe will drop.

>> you just seem angry about it. >> reagan.com, you'll find out a lot. >> you seem pretty angry, michael. >> anyway, we're going to take a break, when we come back, we'll talk about your safety next. stopping. it's not that hard. and only allstate pays you an extra bonus to do it. get one of these every six months you go without an accident. [ judy ] what are you waiting for? call or click today for a free quote or to find an allstate agent.

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fascinating washington post lead story today called a hidden world growing beyond control. here's a clip from the washingtonpost.com. you think you know america. but you don't know top secret america. we're all aware there are three branchs of government in the united states. but in response to 9/11, a fourth branch has emerged. it is protected from public scrutiny by extraordinary secrecy. top secret america. >> this is a closed community. and since 9/11, it's become even

more so. >> the money spigot was just opened after 9/11, and nobody dared say, i don't think we should be spending that much. >> it has become so big, the lines of responsibility are so blurred, that even our nation's leaders don't have a handle on it. >> what do you make of this, alicia? >> i feel like it's a suspense movie and i need to know how it ends. i think after september 11th, sort of most americans agreed more was more. and in the process you got a lot of this bloat that we're seeing now, so i think good fort washington post for looking into this, for committing two years to this project. i'll be interested to see what they put out in the next few weeks. >> doesn't secrecy bother you? >> i was a member of the first family, we've always had secrecy. the reality is, are we safe? have they thwarted attacks on the united states of america? yes. how many there, i don't know. i go to bed at night feeling

safe, because there people out there who want to make sure i'm safe. as long as you're opening up pandora's box, you're not going to stop it. >> do you know how much money they're spend something. >> i don't care. you. >> care about washington -- >> i don't care. because the first job of government, look at the constitution, check it out, is about protecting the united states of america. that's what the first job of government is. >> we don't have to know what it costs? >> i don't ask my wife how much money she spends. >> perhaps you should, michael. i go to bed feeling safer that we haven't had an attack. i'd also like some level of transparency, so we can know if this is the reason that's producing the safety force. we need to know what's going on. >> i don't think we're smart enough to make that decision. >> i have to disagree with mark. we've had the ft. hood, panty bomber in detroit, the situation

in new york. we've had some attacks. i don't go to sleep all that easy. i'm curious to know at least how much money is being spent on this, and if there's a redundancy anywhere, that's something that's nice to know. >> well, there's redundancy all through washington. >> michael, you just can't have a problem with barack obama. i want to know if there's redundancy and inefficiency anywhere. >> did i mention barack obama or the democrats? no, i understand it. we're going to check out that redundancy, let's go through the whole budget and look at all the redundancies. >> and you've done that before. >> why don't you help us do that so we can stop paying unemployment benefits. >> alicia, you think we're going to find out more here? >> i think we're going to find out more. and i do think we have to be re