lopez also wrote when they got back to los angeles ayers asked him, do you think we could go to rome and meet the pope? thank you for watching "state of the union." i'm candy crowley in washington. we will see you next week. >> larry: tonight, michael moore, the filmmaker, sounds off. on the fortune bp's ceo is being paid to step down and the bombshell leaks about afghanistan. he'll take your calls. and then -- >> this crime hurts families and it violates people. it is vile and it is threatening. >> larry: stalking victim erin andrews implores congress today, make stalkers pay. it happened to olympic champion shawn johnson. a mental patient armed with loaded weapons, duct tape and

zip ties targeted and pursued her and she's here to say, "enough." next on "larry king live." >> larry: good evening. couple of program notes. laura ingraham is here tomorrow night and tony robbins on friday. michael moore is with us tonight. the oscar-winning documentary filmmaker, founder of the traverse city film festival, an annual event which kicks off right now and runs through sunday. michael joins us from traverse city, his open space outdoor cinema. why a film festival in traverse city, michigan? >> why not? i guess it's because it's where i live. you know, it's like a lot of small towns across the country and in the midwest here where people are just dying to see a good movie. and there's so many good movies that don't get distributed. so each summer during this week in traverse city we're on lake

michigan up at the top of the lower peninsula in michigan here. we bring 80 or so films, a lot of films people haven't seen before, and from all over the world, and it's turned -- this is the sixth year of it. and it's -- we've got about 100,000 tickets sold here for the festival. so it's -- it's quite a -- it's -- it's quite a cool thing. we're here actually right on the main street of traverse city. behind me is the state theater which is the home of the traverse city film festival. it operates all year round. it was one of these boarded up movie theaters in a michigan downtown a number of years ago. a bunch of us got together and decided let's get this thing opened back up and let's bring some good movies to town. since then it's -- it's sold over 400,000 tickets in 2 1/2 years. seven-day-a-week basis. >> larry: i spoke in traverse city, michigan. it was a convention there some

summers back. had a lot of fun. you took some flak when you started this. there were signs saying, go back to flint, commie, and other stuff. how is it doing since then? >> yeah. quite well. the first year i was new here and people -- they didn't quite know. i'm from downstate, you know, the flint/detroit area, and this county here is fairly conservative county. it voted twice for mr. bush and once for mr. mccain and i decided to come and live amongst them. and so at first they didn't quite know what was going to happen. but we've pumped about, now in these six years, close to $50 million into the local economy between the film festival and this theater and all the revitalization that's happened downtown. there's not a day now where a republican doesn't stop me on the street and give me a hug or shake my hand or whatever. it's actually been a very good experience for me to be amongst people that i -- we don't necessarily share the same politics, but we're all

americans. we're all in the same boat. we have to sink or swim together. >> larry: michael, you capitalists constantly amaze me. anyway, you said you had a tough time finding american -- >> it's all nonprofit here. >> larry: did you have a tough time finding american independent feature films this year? >> well, i have to say, it was more difficult. we've got a great lineup of american films this year, but probably 50% less american films than we had last year. i think that's due in part -- >> larry: why? >> -- since the crash -- since the crash of '08 the money hasn't been there. and i think hollywood hasn't wanted maybe to take as many risks, and they've hedged their bet.

and they fund the films that are, you know, probably the surefire ways to make a lot of money. things blowing up on the screen and, you know, appealing to a different kind of thinking. which is too bad because i think there is hundreds of millions of americans who'd really like to go to the movies this summer. i don't know about you, i've only been twice, and i saw two good films, but there should be a great film every week coming out. i don't know why that is. do you ever hear that from people? >> larry: no. do a lot of stars come to this festival? >> yeah. we have stars that come here. the stars to us are the -- really the directors and the writers. we had paul mazursky here last year. a couple of years ago we had david o. russell.

we had the family of stanley kubrick here one year. we've had malcolm mcdonald. our board of directors is myself, terry george, the director of "hotel rwanda." the actress christine lodi. this is all volunteer. it's all non-profit. we do this because we want to bring movies to the midwest where we're from, and people here want to go see a good movie. >> larry: okay. let's move to some other areas, and we'll mention the traverse city film festival again. what's your reaction to the wikileaks of the afghan war documents? >> well, i think -- i think that we have this war machine that was built on a lie a number of years ago. incredible lies that have cost thousands of lives, billions of dollars, and one brave soldier, by the name of bradley manning, decided that the truth had to be told. and he said he was willing to do

it regardless of the consequences. and he essentially followed the nuremberg principles which is when you see something going on like this, when you see war crimes being committed, when you see lies being told in order to bring a country to war, you have to speak out against it. you can't just line up and be a good german and do what you're told to do. so this brave soldier put up on the internet through wikileaks footage that was just absolutely incredible and sad and pathetic to watch. and for that, now, he's been arrested. he's in jail. this is -- the opposite should be happening. he should be rewarded for saying, i witnessed a lie and i'm going to tell my fellow americans the truth. >> larry: wikileaks will not confirm the source. he's been arrested, but the assumption is that he's the source. it is not yet a fact. >> yeah. right. >> larry: you see him as a hero. how do you see the leaks affecting the obama administration which has condemned them? >> well, that's -- that's a bit of an orwellian moment because -- because you have the obama administration essentially

defending the cover-up and the lying that took place primarily during the bush years. and so for the obama administration to take this position is just -- you know, he should be saying, look, this is exactly who we want in our armed forces. we want men and women of conscience and people who will stand up and fight for the things they believe in. that's what this soldier, this young soldier, 22 years old, has done. he deserves our support, our gratitude. his legal defense fund now deserves our help. whatever we can do. i'm just disappointed the obama administration doesn't give him a profile in courage award as opposed to the way he's being treated right now. >> larry: let's get a break. michael moore, the founder of the traverse city film festival, now in its sixth year. we'll be back with michael and we're going to talk about bp and the oil spill and shirley sherrod and a whole lot more with michael moore next. [ male announcer ] nature valley

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>> larry: we're back with michael moore. you backed obama in 2008. there's more people on the left angry at him than appear on the right. how do you feel now? do you think that possibly -- >> that's impossible. that's impossible. >> larry: do you think a person left of obama politically might challenge him in 2012? >> no, i think what needs to happen is that those of us who voted for him need to get him to do the things we elected him to do. and to not be afraid to do those things. it -- it -- i think that's probably been the disappointment. but to say that people on the

left are more against him than people on the right, trust me, we know that isn't true. because all the craziness that he's had to put up with, all the racist comments that he's had to put up with, all the questioning whether or not he's even an american citizen, all this stuff is just so -- you know, our criticisms on the left are because, you know, he is of good heart and we believe that he'll do the right thing. if he doesn't do the right thing, he will probably depress the vote on the democratic side this november, and the republicans could take back one or two houses of congress. i'd hate to see that happen, so mr. obama, now's the chance to be all that you can be and do the things that we elected you to do. and, if i could say, this incident last week with shirley sherrod and fox news was a good example of how the white house seems to be so deathly afraid of the other side that -- that they

were willing to get rid of this woman before fox even ran their attack. i mean, that -- if that's really where we're at, where the majority of the country has said we want a democrat in the white house, we want a democratic house, we want a democratic senate, and we want them to do these things regarding jobs, the economy, the war, et cetera, and then they cower in the oval office worrying about what fox news is going to do starting at 5:00 p.m. and then react in this crazy-making way, i hope they got a bit of comeuppance this week with this and will get back to doing the job we elected them to do. >> larry: concerning sherrod, what does that say about race in america? >> well, we still have -- we still have a big problem. that's what it says.

we all know that. we know we've had a big problem for a long time. it's gotten better. things usually do get better, and hopefully this will continue to get better. our best hope really are the younger generations who've grown up in a much better environment where their friends, their relationships, their culture does not have racism as any building block of their foundation. and so -- so the future, for me, i think it looks good. right now we still have obviously a problem. >> larry: okay. let's turn to the oil disaster. it's day 99. what are your thoughts on this whole mess? >> well, i have a number of thoughts. all the obvious ones i don't need to say it about british petroleum or, you know, the corporate -- the conglomerates, the oil companies that essentially call the shots. they buy our politicians. they buy the government. they buy the rules. they rig it in such a way where when the inspectors come to inspect these oil rigs the -- the corporation already fills it out for them and then they just pencil it in and then they ink over it so they don't have to do any inspections. that's how pathetic it's gotten

in terms of how the oil companies are running the show. but what i've wondered is, it took -- what was it, 85 days almost before they were able to plug the leak? i mean, larry, this was a seven-inch hole at the ocean bed. 36 inches in the pipe where we saw the oil gushing out. 36 inches, 7 inches. we're americans. i mean, for crying out loud, have we forgotten how to do anything that it would take us 85 days to figure out how to plug a seven-inch hole? really, what has happened to us? and you could make a list of so many things of how our culture has just, you know -- i mean, nothing works anymore. you can't get anybody on the phone. you know? if you do get anybody on the phone, you know, they're in the philippines or some place. i just -- i just -- i just think that historians, when they write about us, are going to say that we allowed these corporations to become the government.

and we, the people, thought we still had a say, but really don't. and that's -- >> larry: when we come back -- >> -- a pretty sad statement. i hate to make it. >> larry: when we come back, we'll get a tweet on this question of bp. [ female announcer ] when a hurricane strikes, people will lose belongings, their homes...hope... they'll need your help. this hurricane season is predicted to be severe. american red cross volunteers are ready to go to work. you can help. a click can feed and shelter a child for another day... a single text can provide a little comfort...

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>> larry: we've got some calls for you, michael. first, what are your thoughts about tony hayward, the ceo, stepping away with $900,000 a year in pensions and stock options worth millions? >> so what's new? i mean, that's -- that's what they do. that's why every time you fill up at bp you'll help contribute to his pension fund. and now here comes the fan mail from the independent gas station owners who really have nothing to do with bp. okay. >> larry: let's get a call. orlando, florida.

hello. >> caller: hello. michael, when obama was running for president, he received a record number of small donations from average-income americans like myself. the supreme court has now ruled that corporations can spend unlimited amounts toward campaign advertising. do you believe that the rich and powerful are trying to marginalize average voters by outspending them in campaign elections? >> yes. next question. >> larry: all right. all right. another question would be, and this is a twitter, if you were the new ceo of bp, you were taking over, what would you say to the american people? >> i would -- wow. i would apologize. and i would say that, americans, we left your shores back in 1784, made a little return visit in 1812, sorry about that, but the gulf and the natural resources that surround your

country belong to you and to the people of the world. not to a corporation. i mean, frankly, larry, i don't think any corporation, any oil company should be able to own this precious and disappearing resource. it's a fossil fuel. there's only so much of it. we're not really doing anything about what the real issue is, which that is the real issue. and, i mean, if i were -- if i were in congress, if i were president, if i were prime minister of great britain, i would get together and say, you know what, this stuff belongs to the people, just like the air belongs to the people, the water belongs to the people, the resources under the ground, the

minerals, all of that belong to the people. not to any one company. by letting them make the decisions, we are on a ruinous path that has consequences far, far greater than the oil that's leaked in the gulf. >> larry: huntsville, alabama. hello. huntsville, are you there? >> caller: yes. >> larry: go ahead, what's your question? >> caller: yes. my question is, i am an up-and-coming author. yes. i'm here. >> larry: go ahead. >> caller: my question to michael moore is, i have a book that's coming out, first-time author, very controversial called "black kings in america." i want to know what was the driving force behind your very first film, knowing how controversial it is? >> the driving force behind "roger & me" was that i -- i grew up in the hometown of general motors, flint, michigan, and i saw what happened to the people in my town, and i thought i should try to make a movie about it, and i did. and now some 20 years later the town is still struggling. lots of good people there are trying to make it work. general motors, of course, has

gone kaput. as far as flint goes, very few jobs left there now. very few jobs left in the state of michigan with general motors, but, you know, it's a sad story that has hit many towns across this country. it's not just flint, michigan, anymore. >> larry: you could get up to $1 million in state subsidies for making "capitalism: a love story" in michigan. given the film's critique of government handouts to the rich, is it hypocrite cal of you to take their money? >> yes. it would be. that's why i'm not talking it. in fact, what i did was i set it up so that the -- the tax rebate money doesn't go to hollywood, doesn't go to any producer, doesn't go to me. 100% of it for the film i made here in michigan is going to go to the people in michigan. we've set up a nonprofit here that's going to help depressed

downtowns in the state of michigan who have, for instance, closed down movie theaters that want to reopen them to try to stimulate the local economy. we're going to be announcing that project here, the state theater project, here at the film festival this week. we think -- we know the millions of dollars it's helped heefr, the jobs it's created here in traverse city. now we want to share that with people in other towns across the state of michigan who are going through tough times. we've got unemployment rates here that have hovered between 15% and 22% depending on what county you're in. that's the official rate. so we're taking 100% of that money and putting it all into -- that's the only way i would do something like that, obviously, larry. these are the things i believe about and speak about, make movies about, and that's how i live my life. so -- but thank you for asking. >> larry: arizona's anti- -- illegal immigration law goes into effect tomorrow. a federal judge might rule sooner. we'll talk about it next. where we pick up a couple of horses that we ride to a nearby river.

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>> larry: we're back. michael, arizona's anti-illegal immigration law takes effect this week. polls show a solid majority of americans support it, although a large degree of people favor the idea, it's okay if you're illegal if you're working and paying taxes, but it's the rest that bother most. what do you make of the law? >> i think the law is just absolutely disgusting. you know, we are all the children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren of immigrants. unless you're a native american or if you're african-american you were either here originally or you were forced to come here. everybody else is here as a result of being the children of immigrants. for us to have this attitude toward people coming here, now that we're here, slam the door, it's a huge country. there's lots of room. i mean, have you ever driven across kansas?

it goes on forever. >> larry: michael, most of our -- most of our ancestors came legally. >> well, i don't know about yours. can you prove that, larry? >> larry: yeah, i've got the documents. they came on a ship. they registered. i've been to ellis island. yeah, they did. >> okay. all right. you came the right way. some of our people didn't. listen, you know, and what was legal then, of course, is different than from what it is now. my point is that, look, yes, there needs to be some rhyme and reason to all this, and we need to come up with a solution, but not the sort of bigoted solution arizona's come up with. in fact, when my next film comes up i'm going to try to have it as part of a deal with my studio, unless this law changes i don't want my films shown in the state of arizona. i've joined the boycott of musicians and others who will not support the state as long as they have this attitude.

>> larry: do you think the all-star baseball game should not be played there next year? >> that's correct. i think it should not be played there. i know a number of baseball players are going to boycott it and i support that boycott. >> larry: let's take another call. toledo, ohio. >> caller: yes, michael, would you ever consider doing a documentary exposing fox news, the tea party and the radical right wing -- >> they've already been exposed. that job's been done. i don't have to do that. the majority of the people in this country know these people are up to no good, they're a bunch of liars, they support corporate powers that be over the working people of this country, and i think the majority know that now. that's why they -- that's why they try to support -- there's a campaign going on here. there's a governor's race primary next week here. so they're -- i think -- i don't think actually he's running for governor, the guy they're shouting about. anyway, so -- maybe he'll run next time.

>> larry: he's getting some press now. couple of quick things. you've been elected to be academy of motion picture arts and sciences board of governors. how did that happen? >> the majority of people in my branch, the documentary branch, voted for me. i was honored by this. i didn't run. they just voted for me and i -- i'm going to look forward to being part of the academy's board so that i can do something to help really make this art form -- this is an american art form, the art of cinema, thrive. that's what we're doing here at this festival here this week, and we're going to start -- the sun's going down now. we've got 10,000 people out in this park on the bay on lake michigan here. we're going to show "twister" tonight. we've got people campaigning for various representatives and governors and whatever back in the background there.

>> larry: michael, thanks, as always i hope bill d. -- it got a little annoying. michael moore, congratulations on six years. >> vote for the democrat. all right. thank you. thank you so much, larry. come to traverse city sometime. >> larry: michael moore. we're making a big turn. we're going to talk about stalking next. olympic champion shawn johnson is here with her frightening story on the day congress is asked to take a stand with tougher laws. don't go away. ♪ our fireworks. ♪ and our slip and slide. you have your idea of summer fun, and we have ours. now during the summer event get an exceptionally engineered e-class for 1.9 percent apr or lease one for $689 a month.

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>> larry: we go to des moines, iowa, where we welcome shawn johnson to "larry king live." she's a gymnast, of course, olympic gold medalist. she was the winner of "dancing with the stars" season eight. she was targeted during the show by a stalker. she can relate to erin andrews' experience, the espn reporter, who was on capitol hill today urging lawmakers to pass a tough new anti-stalking bill. last year nude video footage of her taken through a hotel peephole went viral on the internet. the man who shot that video is now serving 30 months in prison for interstate stalking. here's some of what erin andrews had to say about her ordeal. >> there have been times over the past year that i have screamed, i have cried, i have said to my family, why me? why is this happening to me? and the senator mentioned, it doesn't just happen to people

that are in the limelight. it mostly happens to just people that are trying to live their everyday life. and when my experience was brought out into the public spotlight and i didn't have a choice about it, i received countless and countless amount of letters. i'm still receiving them. from women that say please go out and fight this, please go out and show your face, please lend your voice and please help strengthen laws because we're not able to do it. and that's why i'm here today. i'm showing my face. i'm lending my voice. and i'm here to give this law some teeth. >> larry: all right, shawn. what are your feelings as you watch her? >> you know, it's -- it's true. you know, you need somebody to go out there and stand up for somebody that's been in this

situation, in this scenario. it's a scary thing, but it's reality. and i think erin's doing an amazing thing and i think it needs all the support it can get. >> larry: you were stalked on the cbs lot, right, where they were doing "dancing with the stars." it's not on cbs but they do it at that lot. what happened? >> it was during one of the shows. he -- the stalker -- he didn't actually get to me, but got close enough. you know, it's something i found out about afterwards but it was something that completely changed my life, because, you know, we went through all the trials and all the, you know, all the legal things, but i had to completely turn my life around for a while and it was scary. but he definitely had bad intentions. and it's something that, you know, has changed the way i look about -- or look at everyday life. >> larry: he turned out to be -- have a mental problem, right? got five years in a mental hospital. >> yes.

he did. >> larry: did you have to testify against him? >> yes, i did. i had to go and, you know, face him and see everything that he brought with him, see, you know, everything that had gone on. the things that kind of -- my parents had tried to, you know, keep me away from just to kind of, you know, ease my mind a little bit. but seeing it all definitely brought it to reality and made it even more -- even that much more scary. >> larry: shawn, what do we know about the whys? do we know why robert o'ryan was stalking you? >> he said he was stalking me because he was in love with me. it was just a -- he was a fan and he was going to do anything he possibly could to be with me. and it's those kind of things that you see over and over again, especially with celebrities and -- like erin andrews. people just go crazy and they'll do anything to get to that

person. but what they don't know is it happens in everyday life also. that's what's hard, because people can go off the edge all the time. >> larry: we're going to show another clip of erin andrews. then i want to ask you what we can do about this. here she is on capitol hill talking about the emotional impact of being stalked. watch. >> this crime hurts families, and it violates people. it affects your everyday life. the way you communicate, the way you travel, the way you take double glances at people. it affects everything in your life. it is vile, and it is threatening. a lot of people who are targets of stalkers and of crimes have said to me, they live in constant fear. they are always afraid. and unfortunately now i understand that. and i always will. >> larry: all right. in her case, shawn, her stalker was arrested and is doing time. in your case the stalker was arrested, is in a mental hospital.

what legislation do you want? >> you know, i want -- i want this to go through for erin. not only for her but everybody else out there only because we need more security and more help with this because there are a lot of people out there that are going through the same thing. and it's hard to go about everyday life just looking over your shoulder and being that cautious and being afraid. and we shouldn't be like that anymore. we should feel safe and comfort in our own home. >> larry: i mean, are you saying if someone calls the police and says, i think i'm being stalked, there's no security setup? >> can you rephrase the question? sorry. >> larry: oh. if someone calls and says i

think i'm being stalked, do the police do anything? >> i think so. i mean, people could definitely take advantage of that, but there's a lot of people out there that are going through this. and it's hard for somebody to reach out to the police or to somebody who they feel will help and say, i think i'm being stalked. because it is an uncertain thing. but just knowing that they're there to help you and make you feel a sense of comfort, i think that's definitely needed. >> larry: the woman who prosecuted the case against shawn's stalker is here next. along with a protection expert. stay with us. because i think food speaks a language of love. that's what inspired me to rethink dry dog food. [ female announcer ] chef michael's canine creations. [ chef michael ] mmm. tender shredded pieces made with real meat... and crunchy garnishes to enhance the mealtime experience. yes, bailey-- just for you. [ barks ] [ female announcer ] chef inspired, dog desired. chef michael's canine creations. now snapple's got healthy green tea, tasty black tea, real sugar, what's our slogan? bester stuff!

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>> larry: olympic gold medalist shawn johnson remains with us. joining us in los angeles, aaron cohen, founder of ims security, specializing in elite protective services and counterterrorism training. a former israeli special forces operative and author of a brilliant book "brotherhood of warriors." also in l.a., wendy siegel, the deputy district attorney for l.a. county. she is the -- she is it with d.a. stalking and threat

assessment team. she is the team. and she prosecuted the case against shawn johnson's stalker. what legislation do we need, wendy? >> well, i think the new federal statute that is being heard is sufficient. the one that we have in california operates well. it operated really well in the shawn johnson case. so i'm satisfied. >> larry: what does the federal statute say? >> the new federal statute allows for stalkers to be prosecuted when they use the internet. they don't have to cross state lines the way the old statute -- >> larry: for federal? >> yes, for federal. >> larry: what is a stalker, aaron? >> a stalker is an individual who repeatedly harasses another individual against their will with the intent on, i believe, trying to get close to them and almost, in a way, terrorizing them. >> larry: is it a thin line

between a stalker and a paparazzi? >> no, i think there's a thick line between a stalker and a paparazzi. >> larry: thick line? >> a thick line. i do. i think paparazzi's intent is not to harm the celebrity. i think they're a different kind of animal out there in their cars breaking all kinds of traffic laws and will eventually hurt someone, but their intent is to sell photos for the purpose of profit. and i believe a stalker's intent, again, is to physically get close with the possibility of harming an actual victim. >> larry: are ordinary people stalked, wendy? >> yes. i think the majority of stalkers do stalk ordinary people. >> larry: the case -- the person with shawn johnson was obviously a mental case? >> yes. he had mental issues. most of the celebrity stalkers have mental issues. >> larry: shawn, were you aware of him at all? or did you just learn that he was stalking you? >> i wasn't aware of him during the show, but afterwards when

everything was kind of brought to my attention i learned about everything and how close he had gotten. >> larry: how -- how was she able to testify, wendy? >> the law in california allows for a victim to learn about the stalker's actions after they can occur. there's a famous case where steven spielberg was the victim. that case allows for that. >> larry: eve fn you don't know it or never saw the action. >> exactly. what shawn had to testify to and she was very brave in doing this was the actions of the stalker put her in fear for her safety. >> larry: a man sees a pretty girl, gets fixated on her. all he does, doesn't have a camera, but he follows her. is that illegal? >> i don't believe that's illegal. it's no different than a paparazzi following a celebrity. you have the right to conduct yourself in the streets. >> larry: when does that follower become a stalker? >> when that -- when that individual is no longer either trying to sell a photo and is crossing into that gray area of,

hey, it's time to call someone in the security world or to call the police and have a closer look at this guy. >> larry: what does the police do if someone calls -- it's mostly women that are stalked? >> yes. >> larry: all right. a call comes in and says this man has been following me for two, three days? what do you do? >> the police will take a report. just being followed is not stalking. most people believe that -- we use the term loosely when -- that someone is being stalked. the law says that in order to be stalked, the defendant has to cause reasonable fear, has to intend to cause reasonable fear. most stalkers don't really intend that just by following their victim. they may be in love with the victim. so, we have to -- we can suggest that possibly go get a civil harassment order. once that's violated, then it

turns into stalking or can lead up to stalking. >> larry: shawn's case was bad how, since she didn't even know about it? what did the guy do? >> shawn's case was severe. the defendant drove across the country from florida, moved all of his belongings here, drove with two loaded weapons, duct tape, a wooden club, zip ties, numerous items, love letters to shawn. and then he -- after being turned away from cbs studios on three occasions, jumped over the fence and got into the studio shawn was performing in within there was a famous case where steven spielberg was the victim. and that case allows for that. >> larry: even if you don't know it or never saw the action? >> exactly. shawn came to court and was saying that the actions of the stalker put her in fear for her safety. >> larry: a man sees a pretty girl, gets fixated on her.

all he does -- he doesn't have a camera, but he follows her. is that illegal? >> i don't believe that's illegal. it's no different than a paparazzi following a celebrity. you have the right to conduct yourself in the streets. >> larry: when does that follower become a stalker? >> when that -- when that individual is no longer either trying to sell a photo and is crossing into that gray area of, hey, it's time to call someone in the security world or to call the police and have a closer look at this guy. >> larry: what does the police do if someone calls -- it's mostly women that are stalked? >> yes. >> larry: all right. a call comes in and says this man has been following me for two, three days? what do you do? >> the police will take a report. just being followed is not stalking. most people believe that -- we use the term loosely that someone is being stalked. the law says that in order to be stalked, the defendant has to cause reasonable fear, has to intend to cause reasonable fear. most stalkers don't really intend that just by following their victim. they may be in love with the victim. so, we have to -- we can suggest that possibly go get a civil harassment order. once that's violated, then it turns into stalking or can lead up to stalking. >> larry: shawn's case was bad, how, since she didn't even know about it? what did the guy do? >> shawn's case was severe. the defendant drove across the country from florida. moved all of his belongings here. drove with two loaded weapons, duct tape, a wooden club, zip

ties, numerous items, love letters to shawn. and then he -- after being turned away from cbs studios on three occasions, jumped over the fence and got into the studio shawn was performing in within ten feet of her. >> larry: do stalkers ever kill? >> yes, they do. we've seen it happen before. if you don't have the proper security plans in place, you might be in a situation that involves the use of lethal force, which is why you really have to keep a close eye on a stalker the moment it starts to permeate and make sure everything is being done so that you can reduce the possibilities of that stalker coming with a gun, driving on a freeway and getting pulled over. then, hey, we've got a shotgun, duct tape and -- >> larry: could we make the case that every stalker has mental issues? >> we could. i think in the celebrity cases there are severe mental issues. it doesn't make someone not liable for their crime. >> larry: can you be a stalker if you broke up with your girlfriend but you follow her around? >> the majority of stalking cases are, in fact, that, larry. >> larry: emotional? >> a million women a year and almost half a million men a year poreliohiwi tm geer so of the 3.4 million cases lt year, the celebrity stalking or what we rors e 3 petonis a sma egef e alng cases. >> larry: shawn, how has ths 3 % n yr fe >> just mad mmo cts, back. you know, when i grow up,

i'm going to own my own restaurant. i want to be a volunteer firefighter. when i grow up, i want to write a novel. i want to go on a road trip. when i grow up, i'm going to go there. i'm going to work with kids. i want to fix up old houses.

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>> larry: there she is, shawn johnson, the olympic gold medalist who was stalked by a mental patient. he is now in a mental hospital, but he got way too close to her with loaded weapons. how can people protect themselves? i thought i'd ask that of erin first. what's a good thing to do if you think you're being stalked? >> first thing you want to do is report it. i think it's important to draw a legal line in the sand immediately and get the authorities on board. remember, there are units such as wendy's that are designed to handle stalkers. use the law to your advantage. get that temporary restraining order filed and draw that legal line in the sand. then what you want to do, if you're in a high-profile case, you obviously want to look at

security, especially if you're on a show or you're involved in a situation where somebody is repeatedly attempting to try to get to you. have some type of security in place. things like cell phones, making sure you have a small emergency kit in your car, making sure you take off the 900 keys on your key chain so there's one you need to get into your car, have that flashlight if the lights go out. again, get law enforcement on board and, you know, get involved with a security firm if you have someone so you can also find out how risky the stalker is because there are cases where you've got schizophrenics but they might not necessarily be dangerous people and then you have people that will show up with a gun so you want to do the active surveillance and have a look at who they are so you can determine the level of threat you are dealing with. >> larry: are police well prepared to handle it, the average policeman? >> i think they are. they're getting more training in this. a lot of times it crosses over with domestic violence and there's been a big push for officers to be trained in that area. >> larry: do you have protection now, wendy -- shawn?

>> i live at home with my parents, so my parents are my protection. but it's just having that extra caution every day and awareness. i did during "dancing with the stars." i had a bodyguard. after that, it was kind of -- we're taking it over in our own hands. >> larry: but you are careful? >> yes, very careful. >> larry: wendy, you prosecuted someone who stalked ryan seacrest? >> i did. >> larry: what was that case? >> that's was a case where ryan seacrest had been a charity event in orange county. the defendant tried to get too close to mr. seacrest and he ended up in a scuffle with ryan seacrest's bodyguard. that defendant pled guilty and was ordered to stay away from ryan seacrest. about a month later, the defendant came to the studios where ryan was. he wasn't recognized at the

moment, and he was turned away. he came back a second time a couple of weeks later and he was recognized at that time because the studio knew there was a restraining order, and they detained him and he had a knife on his person. >> larry: was he prosecuted? >> he was, and he's in a mental facility as well. >> larry: does ryan have to press charges in that kind of case? >> the victim -- we represent the people of the state of california, and ryan is the victim in that case. he did not have to come to court to testify in that case. the defendant pled before we went to trial. >> larry: but he would have had to come -- >> yes. he was cooperative. >> larry: are any of the stalkers ever eventual rapists? >> i believe there's been dozens and dozens of cases where you have stalkers who have quite thick criminal backgrounds, including rape, including assault and other felonies.