nine people dead including the killer. two people are injured. and obviously on this night many, many, many unanswered questions. we'll stay on this story. thanks for being with us during this special edition of "rick's list." i'm rick sanchez. "larry king live" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com tonight is monogamy killing marriage? if you let your spouse stray, will they stay? rethinking wedded bliss in the 21st century. then sharks in the water. one attacks and shreds the arm of a swimmer in florida. great whites are spotted off the coast of cape cod. they're lurking, look out. next, on "larry king live." good evening, i'm ali sitting in

for larry. he's on vacation. i'm excited about this show tonight because it's two of my biggest fears. a great white shark attacking me, or my husband cheating. now, if you've ever been in a relationship you'll want to stay right here. we are talking about monogamy. it's been a hot topic on cnn.com all day. should couples have open relationships and disclose affairs? could letting your man sleep with another woman actually help your relationship? well, that's what we're going to ask our guests tonight. bethenny frankel is here. she's a star of bravo's "bethenny getting married." holly hill is the author of "sugarbabe." she says women should negotiate infidelity with husbands. sarah simons is an author and infidelity analyst. hello, women, and welcome to a hot topic. infidelity. i want to ask, have any of you been cheated on? >> yes. i was cheated on. his girlfriend -- he had a girlfriend while he was -- he was actually sleeping with her.

i was his girlfriend. she called me in the middle of the night at about 2:00 in the morning and said, can i speak to michael? i he's going to be listening. i said, who is this? he said, his girlfriend. we hung up the phone and i waited two hours and star 69'd her for the details. >> holly, holly hill author of "sugarbabe," you think that's okay, if you negotiate fidelity with your spouse or lover it makes for a long and successful relationship. am i right? >> yeah. absolutely. and those details that we talk about, if you're mating the women that your partner is being with, you're not building her up to be some kind of supermodel in your head. and we always want to know the details. the best way to get the details is ask her out for coffee and be adult about what is a very educated and natural thing to be doing. >> see, i think that was a low

point in my relationship, in my life to be talking to that girl. it had nothing to do with her. i was in the wrong relationship because i was with someone who was cheating. i think that negotiating within your relationship about being allowed to cheat is absurd. >> holly,s it one of the things -- i'm married. en and one of the things i think of in my marriage, i can go to my girlfriends for emotional support or my shrink and there are other venues where i can get what i want. i feel marriage, the one thing i have with my husband, which is sacred, is a sexual physical relationship. otherwise, why be married? >> i guess the only reason it's sacred is because it's -- there's old-fashioned rules that we're obeying. if you want to have a lifetime relationship with someone, which is what we all want, it's about negotiating things within their nature and their biology. >> sarah, you say that -- you started a fantastic website,

mistressesanonymous. you're not saying that's a good thing. this is really a support group for a lot of women that have been brokenhearted because they had an affair with a marriied mn and wanted to be with a married man? >> i can resonate with holly, i've been through certain similar experiences that she has. i have to say, if you're negotiating with somebody you're probably in the wrong relationship. anything that needs that much negotiation probably isn't right and you should get out of it. that's who my website is about, that's what my support group is about. it's called mistressesanonymous, which is like alcoholics anonymous. in my group we can drink, and trust me, you need to. it's a 12-step program. literally i help women get out of toxic affairs with bad boys, unavailable men. it's a phenomenon going over america. women are attracting to these wrong guys. i hear from women every single day. it's unbelievable. >> now, i want to sort of open

this debate up to all three of you. which is that a lot of people say, men and women clearly are different, and we have different needs and men really biologically, physically, their urge is to spread their seed throughout the land and ours is to kind of, you know, incubate. when you put that in its very kind of specific scientific dna kind of way, do we allow men because it is their physical urge to go out and have at it? >> i think women -- first of all, men are sleeping with the women. i mean, speaking of the sharks that are going to be on the show tonight, there are a lot of women going out preying on men. i think it's equal. >> women going out and preying on men? are you kidding me? >> absolutely. >> men prey on women. women prey on men? >> i want to see a man -- i'm saying, women cheat also. >> this has happened to

bethenny. >> she said they go prey on men. that is incomprehensive. women do not prey on men. >> it's about married men. they don't try to somehow use a turkey baster and get pregnant. >> negotiated infidelity is about beating 50% divorce rate. >> holly, i want to ask you something. because you -- there's a metaphor in your book about how you have to have a dog on a leash. it's better to have a dog on a leash than having a dog go out the hole in the fence. my feeling is, doesn't the dog need to be housebroken first? obviously an untamed dog will go through the hole in the fence, but, you know, my feeling is if you're in a good marriage, then why would you need to go through the hole in the fence in. >> isn't it what -- it's our right as women, we have to cross our legs. it doesn't matter the reasons why. it could be a pregnancy or a

hard time in our life and we love our partner. he still has urges while our legs are crossed. negotiate an alternative for him. that's very important if you love someone and you want them to be happy. >> holly, hold on a second. bethenny is spreading her legs. >> we have urges too. i don't think for the rest of my life i would only be attracted to my husband if i saw someone else. i would not act upon it. the reason i'm succeacuccesssuc you put into something is what you get out of it. >> where there's a real housewife there's a real mistress. trust me. this is a new reality show -- >> you sound very bitter. >> real mistress behind that real housewife. trust me. you need to know what some of your husbands are doing behind the real housewife's back. that's a new show that needs to be out there. >> if i were as angry as you i think my husband would be cheating on me. >> sarah, holly -- oh, sarah, this is a nighttime news show. sarah and holly, let me ask you

this. >> is this the family hour? >> yes, this is the family hour. we're doing recipes for mac & cheese. >> i can't say it? >> no, you can say whatever you want, but i want to ask you a question. i want you to think about this and we'll come back after a break. holly and sarah, do you believe all men cheat? think about it. we're going to come back right after this. straying and staying in marriage. coming up next. it's getting hot in here. i got into one of the best schools in the country!

[ both screaming ] i got into one of the most expensive schools in the country! [ male announcer ] when stress gives you heartburn with headache... alka-seltzer gives you relief fast. [ low male ] plop, plop. [ high male ] fizz, fizz. 100% natural nuts and granola in bite sized clusters. it's a little bit of nature... a little bit better. and nature approves. granola nut clusters from nature valley. you know, when i grow up,

i'm going to own my own restaurant. i want to be a volunteer firefighter. when i grow up, i want to write a novel. i want to go on a road trip. when i grow up, i'm going to go there. i'm going to work with kids. i want to fix up old houses. [ female announcer ] at aarp we believe you're never done growing. i want to fall in love again. [ female announcer ] together we can discover the best of what's next at aarp.org.

welcome back to "larry king live." i'm ali wentworth. we're talking about cheating. and whether it might be good for a marriage. we have a hot debate going. right before we went to the break i asked two guests, holly hill and sarah simons, do you think all men cheat? ladies? >> absolutely. 100% of men are not mentally monogamous, which means they sexually write every single woman they see. so that means that they -- they aren't monogamous. they're not naturally monogamous and we have to cater to that in our relationships. >> holly, should we cater to that or is it something that, you know, for instance, if you're on a diet, don't go into the bakery, right? i mean, i think that when a man has made a commitment to a marriage, maybe instead of us saying, you know, that's what men like to do, we have to let them doing, maybe it's something they need to honor otherwise the whole moral structure of the society goes out the window. >> i don't think there's a woman

alive that hasn't wondered why he's late home from the office christmas party. so femmenism is about changing that around and it's about exchanging vulnerability for power. if you're harnessing your men's sex drive and saying aye or nna to various sexual partners or acts, that puts you in a lot of control. you trade vulnerability for empowerment. >> you're talking about arrangements, having agreements with your husband. it's like a negotiation. the problem is one person is always acquiescing. one person thinks it's a good idea so they can go out and get some and the other person is acquiescing. that's the reason everybody in the relationship will never be happy with that arrangement. >> sarah, you were having an affair with your now husband. is that correct? you met him when he was married, sarah? >> me? >> yeah. >> god, i wish i had a husband. no, i was having an affair with gordon ramsay for seven years and he's still married.

>> i was setting you up for that. yes. >> can i just say -- >> i'd like to hear what you have to say. >> you know what, the only good thing about something that is negotiated like infidelity is all three party, because in an affair, in infidelity there are three sides, the wife, husband and mistress. the only good thing about something that is negotiated is that all sides have their ways on the table. i think people should put fidelity into their marriage and their relationships. i don't want them to go down the infed dellty route. however, if they're negotiating it, there's nothing worse than being a humiliated wife, nothing worse than being a mistress for waiting for a man who's never going to leave his wife. >> let me ask you about -- >> mistresses are a dishonest way to conduct these types of relationships. >> holly, let me ask you something. >> i'm talking about honesty. >> holly, let me talk to you for

a second. you've written this book "sugarbabe" where you put an ad out saying you're a great cook, cook for them, have sex with them, listen to their problems. and for starting, what, $1,000 a week and you got 11,000 responses. >> yep. >> let me ask you with all these men, these sugar daddies that came into your life, "a" did you ever fall in love with any of them, or "b" were you ever with one exclusively and another one called and said, you know, i want to do that position in the mcdonald's drive-thru, get over here. how did that work? >> i was -- part of the arrangement was i was exclusive 24/7, and i charged $1,000 as a result of that, and apparently i was the laughing stalk of the sex industry because that meant i was charging $6.80 an hour because i was available to them 168 hours in the week. but it was an extraordinary time where i got to interview many

men about their cheating habits. and why they are cheating. most of the time it's because the woman at home has crossed her legs and he's simply not getting enough sex. >> holly, is that negotiating infidelity or is that prostitution? >> i can't even believe -- >> no, this -- i'm happy to -- >> can i answer that question? >> i was, in fact -- >> go ahead, sarah. >> i'm happy to wear that label, but if you use that label, in my particular situation -- >> go there, sarah, jump in. >> it means a wife who stays with your husband is also a -- >> speaking from an ex-mistresses point of view, she's very submissive, very subserve yant. i've been there, holly. i know what it feels like to be waiting for a guy, cooking, cleaning, waiting for him. you happen to charge if it. so many women who write to me who are mistresses, they've been in four-year relationships, six

year, ten-year relationships. they do it for free. do not talk to me about prostitution, they offer a service. they pay to have sex. mistresses fall in love for free. and they're the type of women who write to me every single day with their hearts broken, the wives are sitting at home having their bills paid, having the mercedes in the driveway and the mistresses are in love with a man living his life for nothing. that's where my passion comes from. >> are we saying that our husbands should go to holly and pay and get it over with and come back to us while we make roast chicken? >> many men have told me they're in prostitutional relationships with their wives. >> we're not talking about children at all. >> i'm telling you what men are telling me. >> all right. relax. we're not talking about children. why even get married? why get married if you want to have an arrangement? why have children? the problem is you shouldn't have children. the reason -- one of the reasons

for monogamy is for your children. you don't want to be humiliated but you don't want to humiliate your kids either. >> share your partner -- >> excuse me? share your partner? >> a friend or girlfriend, she might be lonely. would you like to borrow my partner? i'm not newsing him 24/7. >> i'm going to go to a break now before this gets completely out of hand and we become jerry springer. our next guest learns firsthand so many cheaters -- yes, it could be my husband and i'll get to you about that, holly. that this well-deserved support group is here to talk to this man. he's coming up next. i'm sure if anybody out there is having some issues with infidelity they can call in to "larry king live." like the cts sport sedan. the most acclaimed vehicle in its class and a "car and driver" 10 best, three years in a row. or the all new cadillac srx luxury crossover. and even the most acclaimed luxury suv ever, the cadillac escalade.

summer brings out the best in all of us. hurry in to get 0% apr financing on every new 2010 cadillac during cadillac's "summer's best" sales event, going on now at your cadillac dealer. ♪ and then there's most complete. like what you get from centrum ultra men's. the most complete multivitamin for men. it has antioxidants to help support your immunity and nutrients like vitamin d for your colon. centrum ultra men's. and nutrients like vitamin d for your colon. [meow] desperate for nighttime heartburn relief? for many, nexium helps relieve heartburn symptoms caused by acid reflux disease. and for the majority of patients with prescription coverage for nexium, it can cost $30 or less per month. headache, diarrhea, and abdominal pain are possible side effects of nexium. other serious stomach conditions may still exist. ask your doctor if nexium can help relieve your heartburn symptoms. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. hi, may i help you? yes, i hear progressive has

lots of discounts on car insurance. can i get in on that? are you a safe driver? yes. discount! do you own a home? yes. discount! are you going to buy online? yes! discount! isn't getting discounts great? yes! there's no discount for agreeing with me. yeah, i got carried away. happens to me all the time. helping you save money -- now, that's progressive. call or click today.

welcome back. we welcome ken savage to the show. ken caught his wife cheating through facebook. he started a support site of sorts called

facebookcheating.com. welcome. >> hi, ali. >> now, walk us through how you found out your wife was cheating. >> well, when you walk into the room and she's on a computer and she closes the laptop very quickly or a quick hey, it's you, what are you doing home so early type of thing? it's the middle of the afternoon and it's weird you jump so high. i didn't really startle. you that's a good indication or start anyway. >> you had this kind of intuition. what's remarkable is that the way you went about finding out if she was cheating was highly technological. in fact, you had an alarm clock with a hidden camera. is that how you actually saw the act? so to speak? of her with another man? >> well, it started off with just recording, you know -- i asked her a dozen times, what's going on, who are you talking

to? if it's old boyfriends, it's fi fine, i don't mind. i trusted my wife. it led to, really there's nothing going on. i knew there was something. so i bought technology to prove otherwise, and, you know, i was right. >> and so, i'm curious, you had this hidden camera and you videotaped your wife with this man which you then watched streamlined at work. correct? >> i could have. i didn't use it to that degree, but it was set up and ready to go type thing. it was more physically chatting on the computers is what sealed it for me. >> ken, you didn't actually watch videotape of your wife having sex with another man? >> no, no, no. >> okay. >> it wouldn't have gotten that far. that's for sure. >> yeah. well, it's -- i went on your website, and it's -- it's basically people who have been cheated on writing their stories of how they dealt with infidelity. now, it's gotten a lot of hits.

it's become extremely popular. now, do you find that people go on the website, they read the stories and it sort of hits home for them and they think, oh my god, i need to check out my spouse? my spouse was doing the same things, or wearing the same sweat pants and going out for chinese at 3:00 in the morning? have you found that? >> right. a lot of people come and ask questions, like i'm an expert on spying on your -- your spouse. i'm not. i just try to put the story out there and how i found out and how easy it was to use facebook to set up relationships. you know, i just wanted to trust my wife and i used technology to prove otherwise. >> well, it opens up a whole other world for relationships, don't you find that, bethenny? >> i think you can't have much privacy with facebook and twitter. someone could be in a restaurant thousands of miles away and find

out exactly what they're doing. it might be a way for people to catch their spouses cheating. it's sick, but -- >> i think facebook is a wonderful way of finding out if your partner is cheating on you or not. as sad as it is -- >> at the same time, if you're dumb enough to put that on facebook then you're going to get caught anyway. so what's the point? >> true. >> i think a psychiatrist would say you're dying to get caught. >> it's better to -- >> it wouldn't be necessarily you, sir. it might be someone saw somebody and posts the picture. it doesn't have to be that you're doing espionage. >> then you confront your partner. >> isn't it better than put it out there and know than live in denial? what's the point of swim in denial? >> you are the mistress, right? you were the mistress -- >> honesty that is wrong. it's not the sex that's wrong. we're demonizing sex because we've surrounded it with dishonest it. >> holly, excuse me -- how are

you wrong if you're the mistress? i'm confused. >> encourages her -- the man in her life to lie to his wife. this is not about -- >> a mistress is about lying as well. >> a mistress and a wife has a lot in common. they're both in love with a man who's cheating on them and lying to them. a mistress is very much like a wife setting up with a mn who's -- >> except you're the mistress. you know a person is married. >> this is a dishonest wife. she's a liar. >> holly, you need a -- >> can i answer the question or not? >> all right. i need to take over. as much fun as it is to watch the big fight out here, i want to ask ken, have you found as a support group your website has really worked? do people comment to each other, befriend each other and say, i went through the same thing and this is how i'm dealing with it? >> a lot of people go on the website, thousands read it.

hundreds comment and they say, you know, nobody's saying hey, thanks for the information. they're telling their story. i told my story and i just kind of sat back and let other people do theirs. they're revealing what's going on, and -- >> right. >> and that's part of the community. that's part of what the website -- why it's so successful. people sharing and finding out -- >> i think it's great, ken, and i actually think you're going to find probably the love of your life somehow on that support website. good luck to you. more on marriage, monogamy and misbehaving spouses and if i'm luck iky i can get all three of my guests in a big mud pile together.

we're back with bethenny frankel, holly hill and sarah simons. we're talk about infidelity, a hot subject that could take us through through breakfast. the one thing i want to get a strong opinion from from all my guests is what you three women believe in when i say, does

infidelity make for a stronger marriage? now, call me old-fashioned, if my husband cheats, i read, i write a tell-all book, it books a movie with meryl streep and i'm happy. let's start with you, bethenny. do you believe if you or your husband stray it will make you stronger? >> it's a cancer in a relationship that at least one person will never be able to get over. marriage is not a negotiation. it's a commitle. if you want to sleep around sleep with everybody in town, don't get married. ed. if you want to have kids, have kids alone. you don't have to be married and embarrassing yourself and your children. >> holly? holly hill? >> i completely disagree. a marriage -- i completely disagree. you shouldn't be negotiating everything in the relationship. and that if you -- if you bring out your man's competitive nature, which is part of his biology, your marriage will be much healthier for it because he's not going to want someone sitting at home dedicated to him

24/7 that's got the kitchen apron on and has let herself go. if you're both out having other lovers it's the sure way to keep the marriage alive and healthy. >> holly, let me ask you this very quickly. i'm a bit of a germ phobe, i don't need to be riddled in stds if my husband is having fun. how do you feel about disease when it comes to making your marriage stronger through infidelities? how do you answer that? >> it's a very big rule, and this is the thing. if you're managing your partner's fidelity, if you're walking the dog on a leash and not letting him escape through the hole in the back fence you're going to make sure he dent get fleas. the stds comes from when he's cheating. if you're controlling reins, you're in control of the situation and make sure they use protection. >> sarah, i'd like to hear your

thoughts on this. >> okay. i'm a little bit torn between bethenny and homil holly. i agree with bethenny, if your relationship is the right one you shouldn't be looking for somebody else. if there's a real housewife, there's a real mistress behind her. with holly, i know where she's coming from but don't agree with the fact all men have to have something else on the side. you know, if you're in -- i do agree with women having to be open to things. i think all women should be open to having, perhaps, a threesome, staying open to it. it doesn't mean you have to do it. the moment you close the door on man's fantasy is the moment he walks out and does it with somebody else and there's always another woman to do it with him. i'm saying to women, be empowered. be the best woman you can, make him want you and live his fantasies out. don't make him want somebody else. be everything he wants. >> we're talking a lot about men going off and cheating. what about the woman? is it okay for the women -- >> i think a cheating woman --

is a whole other show, ali. we don't have time. >> like i said, we have till breakfast. so go. >> of course women are cheating. >> a woman is a lot more dangerous than a cheating man. women have sex for intimacy, whereas men have sex for the thrill. >> you think of the world as women in aprons and men going out like animals. it's a lot more equal now. i'm certainly not ironically a chef but i don't spend that much time in an apron. i'm equally as strong minded as a man. >> listen, if my husband is going off with, you know, stewardesss and cocktail waitresses i'm heading out on a greyhound bus. >> they could be nurses and doctors and lawyers. don't stereotypical the type of woman they're going after because it's so not true. that is a misconception. >> who's seen a successful relationship or marriage where both are outside of the marriage having infidelities? i have not seen a successful marriage -- >> how about bill clinton and

hillary? how about bill clinton and hillary? that's a successful marriage when they were doing their own thing outside of the marriage. >> well, we don't know all the details of that. ladies, i think in this topic we're swimming with sharks. now we're literally going to go swim with sharks. we're going to get ready to hit the beach in cape cod and find out why there are so many sharks off shore. we'll tell you next. >> i remember seeing a dark fin coming toward me. [ male announcer ] there's complete. and then there's most complete. like what you get from centrum ultra men's.

the most complete multivitamin for men. it has antioxidants to help support your immunity and nutrients like vitamin d for your colon. centrum ultra men's.

it's shark week on tv and in real life. the discovery channel's promoting its 23rd annual shark week just as sharks are being spotted off the coast of massachusetts and new jersey. yesterday a 37-year-old woman's arm was shred in a shark attack in florida. joining us, andy dayhard, discovery channel shark adviser and marine biologist for shark week. thompson is a shark attack survivor, celebrating his wedding anniversary with his wife in the bahamas, he lost his leg when a shark tore into him. this month he's hosting blue august, a month of special programming about the world's oceans. he's the president of earth oakco international and grandson of jauk gusto. you have a long intro, don't you? welcome. i have to say there's nothing that scares me more than a shark which i why i won't even take a

bath. i think most people would say that it's "jaws" that ruined it for them. it's been, you know, two decades since "jaws." all of a sudden we're seeing in the news more and more great white sharks being sighted, like they said, in cape cod in new jersey. andy, why? >> we've done a great job at saving our seal populations in massachuset massachusetts. when you save the marine mammals which are food to great whites they're going to hone in on that and feed. >> they're looking for seals and -- >> they are looking for seals. they're not looking for people. great whites don't feed on people. >> can't they tell, i have blond hair, bikini -- >> they can. that's why you haven't been bitten by a great white shark. >> because i don't go in water. i'm a sand girl. it was your tenth wedding anniversary. >> today is my wedding anniversary. august 3rd. >> thank you so much for being here. is she mad? we've been talking about infidelity and stuff. i hope you have a little bit of

bling to bring home. can you let us have a window into what happened with your incredible tragedy? >> back in 2001 we were celebrating our tenth year wedding anniversary. >> right. >> and it was a milestone. we decided to go to the bahamas to celebrate and basically i went in the water and from the corner of my eye i -- >> how far out are you now in the water? >> i am actually -- >> about 20 feet out? >> you know, i don't want to -- i'm not really sure how far out. i was in the shallow -- i remember the water was between five and six feet, you know, with the waves five to six feet. >> andy, that's nothing. that's nothing. >> if you look at shark attacks statistics one to three feet is about the average for shark attacks. it's not because sharks are feeding -- >> they're stuck? >> -- more often but that's where we're bathing.

>> sorry to interrupt. >> the water was very murky, choppy. it was just frigid. it wasn't like the day before when i was in the water. >> you're swimming and see a fin coming right toward you? >> it's coming right toward me from the corner, from the right side of my eye i saw this shark fin approaching me. and the first thing i had to do was just get out of its path. i just tried to turn around and start swimming toward the land and to get away from the shark. but, of course, i -- i actually -- >> this is a re-enactment we're showing here which is horrifying. >> i actually thought i was going to get away but it caught my left leg between my knee and my ankle. >> this is, you know, this is everyone's greatest fear. a fin coming toward you. what's going through your head? are you thinking how do i get away? are you having flashbacks of your life? i mean -- >> no, i'm just thinking i'm just going to get out of the way before f the shark gets to where i am right now. >> you start swimming like crazy? >> yep.

exactly. i actually thought i was going to get away but it caught my left leg. >> when it caught your left leg i would imagine, what i've read about sharks, they kind of pull and tug you and pull you under. are you still swimming? >> actually i felt the shark swim between my legs. it grazed my right inner knee, caught my left leg. i heard its teeth go. it caught me -- >> you heard the teeth on your bo bones? >> i heard those teeth on my leg. you're just shocked. you can't believe it. you're kind of hangs out there. you know, like in seaworld when dolphins have you'd -- >> yeah. >> it was -- >> i don't go there anymore either. >> and the water splashing in your face and for a couple seconds you're just out of it. you just can't believe it. >> phillipe, let me ask you this. did he do the right thing? if a great white or any shark is coming toward you should you start swimming as fast as you can toward shore? >> no. not necessarily. i mean, sharks can certainly

outswim human beings and can sense panic. so probably the best thing to do is try and stay calm and turn around and face that shark. i have to say, ali, every time there's a shark attack or two every summer people delayer it the summer of the shark. that's a mistake. this does happen but it happens so infrequently. people are afraid of being attacked by sharks then they should be afraid of being hit by lightning. that happens more often. they should buy a lot of lottery tickets because you're more likely to win the lottery oftentimes. last week in yellowstone three campers were attacked by a grizzly bear. one of them was killed. we're not calling it the year of the bear. while it's grisly and fear of sharks taps into the primal fear of the unknown, the darkness beneath us we don't know, we have to understand it's very, very rare and sharks are very important to the health of the ecosystems and we kill sharks every year and ultimately sharks have a lot more to be afraid of from us than we do from them.

>> okay. well, no, i agree, but sharks are good for tv ratings. if i can just say that. >> that's true. >> we're going to come back and talk more about sharks. because there's -- i have a million questions. especially if one is coming after you, what will you do? evs to go to college and everyone who started college but never finished... to late bloomers... full-time moms... and everyone who is good at something but wants to be great. welcome to kaplan university. the university that's changing the face of education... to undergraduate degrees,

graduate degrees... degrees that can give you a leg up... in a tough job market... in any job market... welcome. welcome to kaplan university. call kaplan university now or visit us on-line to take our free learning assessment.

♪ we're going to check in with someone who has swum with great white sharks, anderson cooper. see what's happening on "anderson cooper 360" tonight. >> i thought that was you singing in that video. >> it was was. i like to hum whenever i see a

whale or a shark. >> yeah. all right, ali, on 360, after a long bat that sparked a debate on freedom of religion in this country, a plan to build a muslim center and mosque near ground zero climbed a hurdle today. should the people behind the center be investigated by the government? that's what congressman rick loz you should happen. the battle over legal immigration and calls by top gop senators for hearings on changing the fourth amendment, 14th amendment to the constitution. the white house weighing in today saying they're playing politics. we're going to hear from both sides on the issue tonight. bp has begun the process to seal the broken well in the gulf of mexico for good. the question tonight is, will is work? then what happens? we'll have all that, a lot more news at the top of the hour. ali, back to you. >> anderson, that sounds exciting, but we have sharks. andy, i want to ask you this. when a human being is swimming in the ocean, usually sharks take a bite, aren't interested

in -- i mean, it's really -- that's more the case than they actually attack and eat, swallow, digest a human being. right? >> correct. the usual case is the shark sees the human and swims the opposite direction. less than 100 attacks per year worldwide. last year, 61 attacks, 5 fatalities. you're far more likely to get hit by lightning on the beach than by a shark. yes, sometimes when sharks come to investigate, it's usually a case of mistaken identity. thinks you might be a seal, come up, take one bite. they do come back and eat you. >> it's mike me and pate. it's disgusting. you've been back in the water. most people would take up golf. you've swum in the bahamas. >> i've been to jamaica. >> and swam in the ocean? >> yes. >> you are now affiliated with each other. i want to learn what you've done since this attack. you know, people, it's always different what they chose to do after they have a life-changing

moment. >> one of the first things that i -- right now i'm on the speaker as a bureau for the blood services. i basically motivate people. i go to colleges and companies and motivate people to donate blood. because i know how important that is firsthand. >> yeah. you lost a lot. >> yes. a whole lot. and secondly, i also protect the sharks. i help conservation sharks. i help to keep them alive. >> andy, and phillipe as well, why are we killing all these sharks? is it for steaks? is it for kabobs? >> they're worth a lot of money. ppe as well, why are we killing them? steaks, what? >> a bowl of shark fin soup can go -- >> it's luxury, as well. shark fin trade where they cut off the fins, dump them back in

the water. they use that to make a soup they flavor with chicken broth because the cartilage in the fin has very little flavor. it's really the texture and the prestige of shark fin soup in asian cultures, mostly chinese cultures, singapore, china and around the world where these are consumed. we are hunting systematically sharks around the world that has a debilitating effect on the environment in which they live. if you think of wolves, how they help to keep the environmental system healthy. without sharks, fish rely on to sell or as their primary source of protein. destroying the shark population has a very, very negative effect on both the health of wild ecosystems and, in many cases, human society.

>> are more sharks being killed than are being replenished in our oceans? >> i think so. you know, the rate of over 100 million sharks a year being killed is far faster than we can replenish them. we know from research in most countries, most oceans around the world that shark populations are plummeting from baselines of just a few decades ago. and this is one of the greatest fisheries crisis we're faces. a lot of people, i think, are complacent in that. they look and think of a shark that the only good shark is a dead shark. that's not really true. >> andy, would you say it's about changing our image of what a shark is? i know there was an animated movie shark tale that came out a few years ago south florida yes. >> again, he was a good guy and i think maybe people need to change their perception. >> certainly. it's a good point that the hammerhead population, in the northeastern atlantic has dropped by over 90% in the last

20 years. it's a change of perception. we are see iing that gradually over time. a lot of it has to do with public aquariums, a lot has to do with programming that gets people involved with sharks. if we're seeing now what we were seeing in massachusetts 20 years ago, every fishing boat in massachusetts out there trying to shoot and harpoon these great whites. we're not seeing that this year, which is a good thing. >> it is a good thing. i've been diving with sharks myself. i know andy has as well. sharks are beautiful, graceful. i talk to so many people who have been on shark dives and they're afraid of getting in the water. when they do and get under water, they see how graceful, beautiful they are and how majestic, not these mindless, man-eating monsteres. >> they are beautiful from afar. coming up, what to do if you are attacked by a shark.

when you pursue an mba at devry university's...

keller graduate school of management, you'll have a professor with you every step of the way. whether you take classes on campus, online, or both, you get the same attention,

the same curriculum, and the same quality. 85 locations nationwide and online. discover how to grow the business of you... at keller.edu. welcome back. wyclef jean will be here thursday, an exclusive, his

first since making the decision for running for president of haiti. we're back with sharks. hypothetically, if a shark was coming at you or you were thinking of swimming in a great body of water, i actually have a list of things that people on this particular website about shark attacks have said. always swim in a group because i guess if you're swimming alone, they think you are a sea lion or seal. is that correct? avoid the water at night, dawn or dusk. is that correct sm. >> dawn and dusk are peak feeding times for sharks. good time to avoid. >> don't enter the water if you are bleeding. >> it's a gimme. >> i think that makes sense. don't wear shiny jewelry. they think it's a fin or -- >> that can be an old wives tale. >> that's just because men don't want to buy us bling. >> could be. >> avoid waters that are being fished a lot. >> definitely. >> because, to me, then you're going to end up on a hook more than a shark. here is one.

don't enter the water if sharks are present. >> unless you're shark diving. >> unless you're shark diving but then you have a cage. >> or not. >> and a professional person or -- >> sure. >> don't you have a dart gun? is there anything you have with you? >> no. >> if you want to go swim with sharks, god bless. don't splash a lot. >> sharks are attracted by low-frequency noises. splashing, thrashing can potentially bring them in. not always. >> he swam probably -- you probably thrashed around a little while you were swimming to shore. look at him. >> christian is a great example of a shark attack survive, willingness to live, do whatever it takes to get away from the shark and it make ace difference. >> that's right. can't panic. that's the first thing. >> don't panic? >> don't panic at all. >> it's so easy for you to say. i'm just -- just thinking about this. don't try to touch a shark if you see one. again, i don't know who is writing this list, but it's sort of self explanatory. don't try to touch the shark.

>> you would be amazed at the number of people who scuba dive and try to grab a nurse shark and try to grab them out of a cave. there's been 50 attacks by nurse sharks primarily by people who are trying to pull them out of their cave and touch them. >> keep your distance from the sharks. >> watch them. enjoy your experience. don't touch. >> you've seen this footage of a shark that sort of washed up on the jersey shore, flipping on the sand. they always show in these news stories the great big white shark jumping out of the water, pulling a helicopter down. >> right. >> this one is the sweetest little shark. you want to name him, you know, fido and take him home. it's sweet. i wish they showed more of this every time they said in chattah, massachusetts, a great white sighting. no. it's a little minnow. it's a disney character. i think it's important to say that. i think we should sort of change our thinking about sharks in general. >> right. >> more than half the shark species are less than three feet long. over 400 species of sharks.

>> a very big misconception that all sharks are man eaters and none of them are. >> this doesn't have it on the list but stay away from the great barrier reef in australia. isn't that spring break for sharks? >> it's a fantastic place to dive. >> it is? would you ever dive with sharks? >> maybe. >> you're a strong man. you're a really strong man. i'm impressed. i don't know if i could go back. philippe, what would you do if a shark was coming after you? >> it would depend on the circumstances. >> you're swimming. >> if i'm swimming, i know that i wouldn't be able to out-swim the shark. probably the best thing to do, what i would do would be turn around, face it, see if there's some way if the shark -- we know from a lot of report that is a shark often times will bump somebody and come back or sense -- try to find out what's going on because it's an alien eature in the water. you probably have a better chance if the shark was coming at me to try to bump its nose or try to veer it off than swimming