by the way a lot of folks are talking about this tonight. look at reverend al sharpton, he sent this tweet to me. that's why i am passionate about education. the civil rights issue of the 2 1st send schur 1st century. there you go. and "larry king live" begins right now. >> larry: tonight dr. laura exclusive. she shocked the country with her repeated use of the n word on her radio show last week. >> listen to a black comic and all you hear is [ bleep ], [ bleep ], [ bleep ]. for the first time since then why she did it, what she was thinking. she has a big announcement too, seconds away. and then kathy griffin. big supporters of same sex marriage. what does she think of the fight over proposition 8? anything funny about that? find out next on "larry king live."

>> larry: good evening, dr. laura schlessinger is the syndicated talk radio show host, if i had to tell you you are on another planet, a "the new york times" best-selling author, no stranger to controversy. last week stirred up a storm when she used the n word 11 times on her radio show, speaking with a black female caller who said she was becoming resentful of her white husband being what she called racist comments by his family and friends. here is a brief excerpt from that conversation and we'll get right into it with laura. watch. >> how about the n word, the n word? >> black guys use it all the time. turn on hbo, listen to a black comic. all you hear is [ bleep ]. i don't get it? if anybody, if anybody without enough melonin says it it is a horrible thing. when black people say the is affectionate. it its very confusing.

>> larry: doctor, always good seeing you. before we get to the announcement. the one thing that you said was interesting. you said on hbo, black comics use the n word. >> rap music. >> but, jewish comics can kid you jews, gay comics kid the gay situation, it is okay, isn't it, but not okay when the nonn person uses it. >> i was trying to make a point to help her about what i felt. because that, about her hypersensitivity. and in general in america our hypersensitivity about race instead of us feeling more like, and i made the poorly. i upset some people, offended some people. i hurt some people. and within 15 minutes, which is what i had to finish the hour, i took myself off my show for the rest of the day because i was so upset because i realized i had

blown it. i didn't help her by making that point. about 8:00 that night i had sent an apology senate i was going to do in the morning on my show to l. l.a.radio.com. it wasn't until 48 hours later there was a media brouhaha. i had already policed myself and apologized. and aye said i was sorry. >> larry: do you realize it is okay if blacks want to kid blacks or make fun of themselves but it is not okay for this lady to have a white person use the word. >> i always tell people on my show to do the right thing. i thought i was freeing to be helpful. i was trying to make a philosophical point. i was wrong. i apologized. and there are people who won't accept my apology. and they have their own reasons for that. i feel bad for that. but, my listeners heard my being contrite, being remorseful, being sincerely apologetic it is not my nature to go out of my way to hurt people.

and get on with things. >> larry: so you are still regretful? >> sure any time you do something wrong you should be regretful. >> larry: what are you here to tell us tonight? >> well i am here to say that my contract is up for my radio show at the end of the year and i have made the decision not to do radio anymore. the reason is -- i want to regain my first amendment rik rights. i want to be able to say what is on my mind, in my heart, what i think is helpful and useful without somebody getting angry, some special interest group deciding this is a time to silence a voice of dissent, and attack, affiliates, and attack sponsors. i'm sort of done with that. i'm not retiring. i'm not quitting. i feel energized actually, stronger and freer to say the things that the i believe need to be said for people in this country. >> larry: you are giving up the

one area of your fame? >> oh, my dear. i write books. i have blogs. i have my web site. >> larry: people think dr. laura, they think her radio talk show. >> this is the era of the internet. >> larry: you are going to do internet stuff? >> yeah, i am now. >> larry: why is your freedom of speech denied on radio? because people can krilt sicrit what you say. >> when i started in radio if some body said something that they didn't like they argued with you. now they fry to silence you. wipe out your ability to earn a living and have your job. they go after affiliates. they send threats to sponsors. >> larry: that's their right too. >> yes, but i don't hatch the right the -- have the right to say what i need to say. my first amendment rights have been usurped by angry, hateful groups who don't want to debate. they want to eliminate. i decided it was time to move on to other venues where i could

say my piece and not have to live in fear anymore that sponsors and their families are going to be upset, radio stations are going to be upset, my peeps are going to be upset. >> larry: did you tell your syndicate today? the people who syndicate you? >> 10 minutes before i came on. >> larry: this show. you just told them? >> right. >> what did they say? >> there was no need how to do this. >> larry: who syndicates you? >> trn, i said this isn't a matter of need. >> larry: were you going to have a new contract? >> yeah, we added five stations this week and added sponsors. this is not an issue of i'm losing anything. you and i were -- anointed as, in the top seven of the most important radio hosts in america. i just got nominated for a marconi, had great ratings. this is not an issue of hiding, running, collapsing or quitting. >> larry: if you have added sponsors, although we get, this group that was after you, media

matters. >> that's their job in life. >> larry: motel 6 stopped, netflix, onstar, advanced auto parts. if you added sponsors. >> i have added sponsors. >> larry: where have you lost freedom of speech. you can say what you like. they can criticize. >> you are missing the point. living with a constant fear of -- of affiliates and sponsors being attacked is very distracting. it's, it's -- the list that you just made. i didn't even know about that. i new motel 6. i didn't know about the rest of that. i expected it to happen. these companies are in business. they're supporteding their families. supporting other families. they don't want to be in the middle of controversy. they want to dupe their bo thei. it is not a matter of them agreeing with the special interest group. it's a matter of them wanting to skirt the problems. >> larry: who is the special interest group? >> like media matters and some

of the other groups that have lined up to decide i should be silenced because they disagree with my points of view. i never called anybody a bad word. i was trying to bring, and obviously, it has become a national discussion now, i was trying to make a philosophical point and i made it wrong. but i wasn't dissing anybody. i was trying to make a point. and for that to say, i should be silenced is the reason that i'm saying to you i obviously am losing first amendment rights. >> larry: you agree, that is a horrible word? >> yes, i policed my self. you know, i don't know of too many people who have apologized before they were told you bet ebetter apologize. i apologized. i knew what high had done was wrong. i didn't wait to be threatened. i took responsibility for what i did. and to imagine that there are people who refuse to accept an apology because they have an

agenda and would like me silenced is, i'm done with that. i'm done with that. i want my voice out there. i feel freer and stronger than ever to be doing that in all the different venues i have. i am pretty excited. january i am coming out with a book called "shark attacks -- surviving shark attacks on land." about betrayal. and revenge. the whole thing is interesting. but i have got so many things upcoming. i'm not going to be silenced in this way. i've been syndicated for 17. 16 of those, the top rated female. and i have never been out. the top five. right now number three. most listened to talk show hosts in america. and i am -- just ready to take on the next level. >> larry: your last show is new year's eve? >> december 31st. i think i am on vacation. >> larry: when will your last show? >> just before christmas, i guess. >> larry: you will come back? >> of course.

>> larry: thank you, laura. dr. schlessinger is chucking it. good way to put it. next we have the latest on the blagojevich case. and kathy griffin ahead. here to talk about proposition 8. something tells me she probably has something to say about dr. laura. stake round. [squeaking] don't take the trip. or even buy the camper... without blueprint from chase. create a plan to pay off large purchases... and save money on interest. does your credit card have blueprint? design your plan at 866 blueprint.

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>> larry: former illinois governor rod blagojevich was found guilty this afternoon of making false statements or representations to the fbi the jury was hung on 23 counts and his brother robert. after the verdict, an empassioned blagojevich spoke to reporters outside the courthouse. >> from the beginning i told them i didn't let them down, i didn't break any laws, i didn't do anything wrong, the federal government and this particular prosecutor did everything he could to target me, prosecute me, persecute me, put pressure on my family. try to take our home, take me away from our kids, arrest me. in the early morning hours on december 9th, with patty and me in our bedroom, little annie in bed with us, the prosecutor said

he was stopping a crime spree before it happened. this jury shows you notwithstanding the government and the power and resources they bring to bear this jury just showed you that, notwithstanding the fact that the government threw everything but the kitchen sink at me, that on every count except for one, every charge except for one, they could not prove that i did anything wrong that i did break, that i did break any laws. >> larry: wgns julie enron joins us, and was in the courtroom throughout the trial and was there to day for the verdict. surprised? >> i think everyone was a little surprised, larry. you know there have been so manies we fmany months we followed the case. they said they had the strong case based on secretly recorded fbi tapes then slowly through deliberations we were getting hints that the jury though they may have been playing nice with one another, was not necessarily getting to the root of the issues and not able to come to a

consensus on much at all. late last week they agreed on two charges of all 24 against the ex-governor and his brother. and today, only one. >> larry: what happened to the second one? >> the -- the second one, which second one are you referring to? one was lying to the fbi. >> larry: there was one, supposed to be two results, right? >> well, he actually was just found guilty on lying to the fbi and really there is two parts to it. if that is what you are referring to. excuse me. one part was there a fire wall between politics and fund-raising. the other was he keeping track of all this stuff. they decided to commit on one and not the other. that's where we sit. the bigger news of course is that all the other charges, whether bribery, extortion, racketeering went by the wayside. that means he wasn't acquitted on these. it means he could potentially and will most likely face all of them again or some in a reconfigured form in a retrial. >> larry: blagojevich also strongly denied that he lied to the fbi let's listen to that.

>> i want the people of illinois to know, i did not lie to the fbi i have told the truth from the very beginning. this is a persecution. we have police officers being gunned down on the streets, children who can't play in front of their homes in the summertime they might get gunned down and a prosecutor who has wasted and wants to spends tens of millions of taxpayer money to keep persecuting me, persecuting my family take me away from my little girls as well as take my home away from us. >> larry: has the jury been polled and questioned by reporters? or the lawyers? julie, to your knowledge? >> we're any just getting some of the information. right now the people who get to the jurors first are typically the media folks like us. we are getting little tidbits starting to roll in now. sort of the last phase of the day. we learned quite a bit. we learned on the issue of selling the u.s. senate seat which has been the one that got so much play, starting back in december of 2009, i think we

learned they were deadlocked but 11-1 in favor of convicting rod blagojevich on trying to sell or trade barack obama's former u.s. senate seat. that's what the foreman told us. that was at one point during deliberations. sounds to me like they were 11-1 to convict. they couldn he convinced everyone else to go his way. they couldn't decide. they dropped it. decide they'd were hung on that one. >> larry: huh. thank you so much, julie. we'll checking with you a lot. and as this retrial comes. that should be coming i guess in a to, take is a while to retry. kathy griffin is an actress, best-selling author, emmy winning star of bravo's "my life on the d list" she joins us now in los angeles. first a couple opinions on what is going on. >> first of all, how am i most the sane person on this entire show. look at this lineup. a comedienne's dream. dr. laura, i believe a botanist, not sure what kind of doctor.

and blagojevich i enjoyed on "celebrity apprentice" just on tape trying to sell that seat. how do i get that one guy to convince the other 11 that the tapes weren't real. okay. i'm sorry. we're here about prop 8. let's add miss this is an action packed show. >> larry: i got to take a break. quickly what do you think of laura's leaving radio? >> fantastic, it is about time. >> larry: what do you think of the blagojevich verdict? >> hung in a way that is suspicious to me. i'm from chicago. i say that with love and sense of humor. >> larry: suspicious in what way? >> really there is a tape of the guy trying to sell the seat. and the jury is hung? >> larry: do you suspect something? awe off the i think i know what i know and i know a guy who called a guy who might talk to a guy, if you know what i am saying. i'm from chicago. what's the problem? >> larry: we'll be back to talk about same-sex marriage. next. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no more paying to access your own money. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 it'd be like every atm in the world was your atm.

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. >> larry: we return with kathy griffin who is the comic, actress and best-selling author and emmy winning star of bravo's "my life on the d list." by the way, that is up for an emmy which we congratulate you, end of the month. >> in fact, the episode, deals with prop 8. >> larry: that's right. the norma gay episode, and your opposition to prop #. during that episode you visited an lgbt center for teens. here is an excerpt, rather, watch. >> if you could each one of you say one thing to that person who voted for prop 8 against gay marriage what would you say to that person? >> i would say, well thank you for denying me the ability -- >> taking away my civil rights. >> who are you to deny somebody their happiness. >> larry: why are you so strong on this topic? >> because i think it is a civil rights issue.

you know, and it was interesting when -- i am not going to call her dr. laura. don't have proof. i will say laurie schlessinger was here. she was talking special interest groups, which i believe she meant the entire african-american community, that is another story. to me this is a civil rights issue. even though i am a heterosexual female, i am kind of immersed in the gay community. i tour this country all the time. and i meet many, many, you know, gay couples, straight couples, and i think it is honestly no different than interracial marriage. it's shocking because people forget that within my lifetime, in my generation, you know, it was illegal to have a mixed race marriage. and when i think about that, i think that must have been a century ago. it was 1967. >> larry: right. >> so i think that the ruling yesterday will prove to be on the wrong side of history. on the other hand i think it is probably good it will go to the supreme court. because i get nervous with this let's let the states decide

because then if you are married legally in california but you cross the border then you lose your rights. >> larry: this is a conservative court? the supreme court? >> yes, that makes me very nervous. i mean, i'm not a fan of the supreme court. i don't trust them. i didn't enjoy the last president. >> larry: how about those who say marriage is a sacred thing for man and woman, about procreation? >> well it's not. first of all the divorce rate is high. i say that as a bitter divorcee. you know i have a very unusual stance which is that i am pro-gay marriage but i believe that heterosexual mare in should be a criminal offense. i am divorced and ape l little bitter. >> larry: proposition 9. >> when it became legal in massachusetts, the sky didn't fall down, everybody is fine, everybody is fine in iowa. so i think, just like -- brown v board of education, people were scared about the ruling. nothing bad happened. in fact good things happened. we have learned historically

some times public opinion can, you know, take a little time to catch up with quite simply what is right. i think that this is just an issue of right/wrong. i think it is pretty simple. >> larry: we will debate that issue coming up in a little while. some more moments with kathy after this. [ male announcer ] at toyota, we care about your safety. that's why we're investing one million dollars every hour... to improve our technology and your safety. it's an investment that's helped toyota earn multiple top safety pick awards for 2010 by the insurance institute for highway safety.

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. >> larry: we're back with kathy griffin. what is this symbolism in the picture, what is that? awe thought mea >> that means gay people should not be silenced and i want an emmy. the symbolism, lots of people are doing them, the duct tape, obviously a ruling like yesterday's ruling is a way to silence the gay community, put them on hold, well we have to think about this more, let's decide in december. so the duct tape simply represents the gay community, not really having a voice. that's really what this debate is about. is prop 8 is about gay marriage being equal for everyone as opposed to civil unions or well

we're going to give you some rights and the 14th amendment isn't about some rights or equality. we don't get to pick or choose. >> larry: what is the essential difference between a civil union and marriage? >> what i didn't understand. civil unions and marriage, there is 1,100 different rights that you don't get under a civil union. and that if you cross state lines that's what makes me nervous. let's say it is legal in massachusetts but then you cross state lines and then you're not recognized and then your partner god forbid goes to the hospital you can't visit them they say in this state we don't recognize you as being married. the bottom line is i really think most americans, especially younger americans who are voting, need to know that they should go to congress.org, a nonpartisan site, let their representatives know that this is an important issue to them. and basically you are not going to get my vote unless you are on the right side of this issue. >> larry: a recent cnn opinion research poll shows there is a big difference how younger and older americans regard same sex

marriage. 58% of those under 50 think it is okay. only 38% over 50 think it is all right. >> right. but that -- what's different about that? that happened with race relations and every kind of civil rights. and you know one person who really, i thought articulated it well was, when weep d did the p8 episode, there were things i learned that were great. i met with al sharpton. he is quite an out there character. but he is a very bright guy. you know hem very well. when he was able to articulate so well how it is a civil rights issue then i was able to go back to my heterosexual friends and say this isn't really such a gay thing, i know you think it is just i know a bunch of gay people it is really a civil rights issue. also when i interviewed as you saw in the clip there, 18, 19-year-old lgbt, lesbian, gay, b bisexual transgender kids kicked out of their homes because they came out to their families.

they didn't have a roof over their head because they said i'm gay, i'm bisexual, i'm lesbian. so they weren't aware of stonewall or matthew shepard. they were frying to keep a roof over their heads. getting them to go to their first rally in sacramento was a really big deal. because the these younger people need to know they have a voice and a vote and it will be heard. >> larry: were you surprised that the three-judge panel didn't allow the marriages to take place? >> yeah, i was disappointed. i think -- like i said -- i think judge walker will reflect upon this and see that he was on the wrong side of history. but i also like to think that there is optimism and then, when it goes to the supreme court, obviously that's going to be quite a debate. >> larry: is it? >> it's not the jimmy carter years anymore. things are very different now. and obviously those of us immersed in the gay community and believe in civil rights of all kind, we are really hoping and pulling for president obama to dupe the right thing. and i think it is obviously, he is under a lot of political pressure that this could be

considered political napalm. i think your polls show, i don't think president obama is going to lose an election over this. i am kind of optimistic that a lot of people, sort of not on their radar, as opposed to maybe 20 years ago they thought that you could catch gay all that stuff. >> larry: an executive order throw out don't ask don't tell. he wants congress to do that. you think it is a cop out. >> yeah it is a cop out. he knows it. they know it. >> larry: couple other things before you leave us, kathy? >> are you broken hearted over the fact that first levi and bristol got together? >> you are really going there. if you are going to pull a diane sawyer, i would like the fuzzy lighting. because i didn't know you were going to just cut my heart open on this show. >> larry: when he announce heed w -- announced he was back with her. >> i'm glad you can't say her name. i can't either. something like a vacuum cleaner brand.

yeah, i have been dumped. it hurts. >> larry: he is not with her now. >> don't play games with my heart. as the backstreet boys would say if i can quote. stop playing game with my hearts. >> larry: it changed. now he is not with her. he fathered a child with someone else. >> you don't get me. all right, levi johnson ripped my heart in pieces. you are just sitting there cold as ice. i was this close to living in the white house. if i had been first lady or whatever i would have been if i kept, sleeping with levi johnson, i would have made gay marriage legal. >> larry: but -- >> let me fell you, gay guys like him. he is hot. >> larry: you could have been the first lady of the mayor of a city. >> i think that could still happen. let me tell you we are going to gay up wasila, it will be one stream of me officiating gay weddings. i was supposed to go officiate a gay wedding after this. i am disappointed. gays have to wait. >> larry: one other thing on levi have you called him? >> i'm doing something called

the rules. dr. laura or whatever she is now, big internet book writer, would agree that -- there is a lot of possibilities out there for me. >> larry: you've don't think she is a doctor? >> i wouldn't go to her for a pap smear. >> larry: on that note. >> what? >> larry: thank you for joining us again. >> always a pleasure. >> larry: always funny. kathy griffin. don't look at me suspicious like you regret this booking. >> larry: we'll debate proposition 8 next. ood. i saw a gap in the market for a fresh culinary brand and launched behindtheburner.com. we create and broadcast content and then distribute it across tv, the web and via mobile. i even use the web to get paid. with acceptpay from american express open, we now invoice advertisers and receive payments digitally. and i get paid on average three weeks faster. booming is never looking for a check in the mail. because it's already in my email.

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>> larry: welcome back. stephany miller is a progressive talk radio host of her own radio show. she came out as a lesbian last week on her program and she supports of course same sex marriage. bishop harry jackson joins us from london. senior pastor of the hope christian church, he is the chairman of stand for marriage d.c. and he opposes same sex marriage. dennis prager nationally syndicated talk radio host of his own program best-selling author and he opposes same sex marriage. and the san francisco district attorney, democratic nominee for attorney general of california, and she supports same sex marriage. stephany, quickly, why did you come out? >> why do you assume i am for gay marriage.

i might be afraid of commitment, you don't know. everybody knows that rush limbaugh married another woman, a little while ago, if i could not have the one man to complete me there was no other choice. >> larry: you finally decided to. >> yeah. >> larry: good choice. >> why are you opposed to two people who want to share a life together, being together? >> i'm not. i'm oweopposed to one thing, on one thing, the redefinition of marriage. i've don't think every society in history, including ours, every religion, every secular society was evil, hate filled and had it wrong when they defined marriage as a man and a woman. that's all that any of us are opposed to. we want gays to be happy. we don't want them ever harassed. they are created in god's image just like heterosexual is. however, redefining marriage means that from now on, gender doesn't matter. man, woman, who ever you marry it doesn't matter. that has never been the case.

no one ever advocated it prior to now. and all we ask is to keep marriage ats it its mail/female. >> larry: what's wrong with that argument? >> it belies the very basis of the founding of this country we said in 1776 we will treat all people as equals. a fundamental american value. it its about fairness, fairness under the law and under the constitution of the united states. >> larry: bishop jackson, why is marriage a religious issue why shouldn't marriage take place in a church or synagogue and everything else be a union. why does the state involved in marriage? >> i think it its an historic issue, larry. i wish the state weren't in it. but the reality is that the state is in it. therefore, there are sociological ramifications that we have to take into account. and i believe that camilla is dead wrong. there is no place in the constitution that says that

something like marriage is a foundational right. it is something that society has always decided that she had the right to deter men whatmine wha for the long term ongoing nature of our society. >> larry: all right, stephany. what's wrong with that argument? >> well, quite seriously, larry. this was a very personal decision for me. i have wbeen out to my friends and family for years. i didn't talk about it on the radio. my dad ran for vice president, with barry goldwater. very conservative, catholic. i spent years thinking they would judge me. i judged them. when i came out to them they couldn't be more loving and supportive. it is a critical time in a critical civil rights struggle in our country. it is incumbent upon me or anybody else to put a human face to it say it is your sister, your favorite radio host, your brother. i was inspired by shelly wright, my friend the country singer who just came out.

that takes courage. i think it is a time when you need to say, i am not going to keep cheering gay rights from the side linize will step on the battlefield and beep part of it. >> larry: do you think you are fighting windmills do you think it is coming, because interracial marriage was the law until 1967, a black couldn't marry a white, and made similar arguments to what you make? >> no, not at all. no, no, no. i know. but they're not similar. i will tell you why they're not similar. there is nothing in common between race and gender. this is a massive confusion of all advocates of same sex marriage. i respect them. some of them i actually love personal leap. i know, they're in my family. but it is dishonest to compare race and gender. no one of different race its different. i am identical to a black to a yellow to a red. i am not identical to a woman. there is no comparison. we have men's rooms and women's rooms. we do not have black rooms and white rooms.

we once did. and that was evil. it is not evil to separate sexes. it is evil to separate races. this is a massive act of confusion. that its sown, not deliberately. race and gender have nothing in common. >> larry: how do you answer that? >> i just think that it, it is absolutely getting around the very, very fundamental and basic point which is that we have a country that we believe in based on everything that we said we are when weep we are when we we founded. all people are equal and should receive equal protection under the law and that is what is so fundamentally important about the ruling by judge walker. which its that the constitution of the united states says that people should not be treated different leap because differently. the constitution of the united states says explicitly that we are entitled to equal protection. let all people be free to marry. it does not, it does not have

anything to dupe with the do wi differences in the sexes, there have many books writ any but that. of course there are differences between the sexes. the point is that people should not be deprived of their basic constitutional rights because of their sexual orientation. a very simple point. don't take rights from people. >> it is, dennis, it is the same in the sense that it is separate but equal. i don't understand how you cannot say that is the same thing. to say we are, you know, like when we let black people marry white people not going to call it marriage like you are real people. separate but equal is not an american and not constitutional. >> are you saying then that, since the inception of the united states or the constitution we have done something evil by having marriages man/woman. >> this is like any other civil rights battle. we did not used to let women vote. we didn't used to let black people marry white people. a lot of things we didn't do d if you look at -- if you look at

the poll out here in california. want to go to polling. people in california are for gay marriage now. you are going to be on the wrong side of history, dennis. >> larry: let me get a break in. >> let people vote. why have a judge do it? >> we don't use mob rule. we don't put people's rights to mob rule. >> larry: let me get a break. hold on. let me get a break in. i will ask bishop jackson, how society would be harmed if gays could marry everywhere. quick correction by the way, kathy griffin just realize she'd misspoke during her segment. she said judge walker was on the wrong side of marriage. he is the judge who ruled in favor of same sex marriage. kathy says she went to say he is on the right side of history. more debate after this. so why do i have to fill out the same medical forms over and over ? ( man ) technology can tell me exactly where i am... but when it comes to my health care, why do i feel so lost ? ( announcer ) we understand your frustration. at unitedhealthcare we believe it should be simpler, and more responsive. we're 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans.

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>> larry: we'll be right back with the debate. first let's check in with john roberts sitting in for anderson cooper, host "ac 360." john what is our lead? >> good to see you. you made the lead tonight. continuing with the news you

brock on your show. her n-word laced rant, calling for radio stations to cut ties with her, dr. laura is calling it quits, ending a 17-year run on the radio. rev a the well is capped. no more oil is flowing into the gulf. what about the oil that is already there? the government says only about a quarter of the spill is still in the gulf of mexico. but two new reports out today put that number at nearly 80% of the oil remaining and they say, what's there is sinking to the bottom of the ocean and working its way into the food chain. what is going on here? who is right? we're keeping them honest tonight. those stories and more coming your way beginning at the top of the hour. larry? >> larry: john roberts. 10:00 p.m. eastern. bishop jackson, how would society be harmed? is society harmed in massachusetts because gay people can marry there? awe all i think so. first of all, the right to vote is an essential civil rights. my father was threatened at gun point by an out-of-control state

trooper because he weighed in on this issue of voting. so we're trumping one group's civil rights in the name of civil rights. there is something backwards there. number two, i think it its about the kids. you are not just changing marriage, you are changing everything that relates to marriage and therefore, heather has two mommies is being taught in schools around the nation and it will fundamentally change how we view the world. and i think that some parents don't want their kids to know these things at such young ages. in washington, d.c., thirdly, on the gay and lesbian agenda right now, is a desire to legalize prostitution in our city because they say that gays, lesbian, transgender kids are going to be diskrim nate e discriminated against. when we say yes to same sex marriage we have all these unintended consequences that come behind it. i think this is a case, larry, of a minority impressing and

imposing its will upon a majority. i have had death had death thrd of crazy things. i just don't think it's fair. what happened today with laura -- >> larry, larry -- >> larry: i don't want -- i want everyone to get the same time. answer this one. >> it is a mistake to suggest that when you give rights to one group, you are taking rights from another. it is not a zero sum game. the reality of it is that we have said as a country that we believe in fundamental fairness, which means equal rights for all. to take -- to give rights to this group of people who want to marry is not to take rights from anyone else. it's just to do the fundamentally fair and right thing and it's the thing that's based -- the basic principle that was the foundation of our country. fairness. >> but fundamentally it changes the institution. it's not giving rights. it destroys marriage as we know it. >> it doesn't take anything away

from the institution. >> it does. >> we know that. >> no, no, you don't know that. i disagree with you. >> it gives other people the protection of that institution, the ability to have a legally recognized bond where they -- >> larry: one at a time, reverend. >> commitment with each other and there should be room in our country for the belief that people do fall in love and want to create a commitment between themselves that is recognized by the law. when they want to do that, we should give them that right. >> you are the same -- bishop -- rather, dennis, you're the same gender as a gay man. >> that's entirely right. but that's not the issue here. let me ask a question to the two women. >> approximate it doesn't count, larry. >> with same-sex marriage -- by the way, i'll ask a question to the women. let me answer you about massachusetts. you asked what's happened. i'll tell you what happens happened. the largest single institution in adoption in massachusetts history has been the catholic

church, catholic charities. they are now out of it. they have been kicked out because they prefer a married man and a woman to be an adoptive couple to two men or two women. i ask the women a question. do you believe that there is any difference in having a father, or having a mother or not having a mother? is it identical, two mothers to a mother and a father? is it identical? >> most kids -- >> i'm happy to answer that. >> answer my question. they are out of the adoption business. >> most kids end up in foster care because some straight couple screwed up somewhere, dennis. >> it doesn't answer my question. >> i'll answer the question. i'm happy to answer the question. >> i want an answer to my question. catholic charities is kicked out of massachusetts in the adoption industry because they prefer a man and a woman as parents. do the two women -- >> the call of your question -- >> kamala, go ahead.

>> there's a point that has to be made here. and i am a career prosecutor. i specialized for a long time in child sexual assault and child abuse cases. i created the first child abuse unit of my office in the history of the office. i'm going to tell you something. what's most important, what is fundamentally most important for a child to become a healthy and productive adult is that they are raised by loving parents. and whatever -- >> so it doesn't matter? >> whatever role they take on, i'm supporting that. i'm supporting that. >> so it doesn't matter, having no father or -- >> in the foster care system, in the juvenile delinquency system who had a heterosexual parent and married couple who were heterosexual who could not take care of their child. but the sex of the parents is going to be -- >> doesn't matter? >> how they raise their child. >> whaels is hurting chi ining dear friend of mine was the homecoming queen, came out. she works on the suicide hotline

for gay kids. there is a gay kid somewhere tonight watching in iowa that thinks -- that's going to kill himself because he thinks there's no one else like him. there's a teacher who takes pepto-bismol because she's afraid somebody is going to ask her what she did that weekend. >> i have to ask one question of you. >> announcing that it doesn't matter if you have a mother. >> the question for you, what's more important, how the child is raised, whether it is with love or not? >> larry: we'll take a break and come right back and have you answer. [ male announcer ] what is performance?

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was your question for dennis? >> whether he believes that it is -- that the issue for a child is more important whether the parents are a heterosexual or

homosexual couple versus whether the child is being raised in a loving home, being nurtured to become the adult we want them to become? most reasonable people would agree what is most important is that that child -- if the focus is truly on the child, that that child is raised in a family where they are loved. >> dennis, what is -- >> i fully agree. now i'll ask you a question. >> okay. >> you have a loving male/female and you have a loving male/male or female/female, a child to give for depositing. would you flip a coin or prefer the male/female? all of them are loving, kind and good. >> i would never engage in that simplistic an assessment when you're talking about three -- >> you asked me a question and i answered. why is that simplistic? >> i would need to know more. i would need to know more. any person who deals with children -- i would want to know if there are other siblings in

the home, i would want to know whether -- >> larry: can i get another word in? >> but they are equal on that basis alone, i say they're equal. >> larry: bishop jackson, do you think it is coming anyway? do you think you're going to lose this fight? >> no, i don't think it's inevitable. i think the issue that we're dealing with is because it's not inevitable, these guys are yelling, screaming, fighting. they know that in the next 2 1/2 years, i believe this issue will be decided at the highest court and what we need for those who believe in traditional marriage is to stand up, let their voices be heard and make sure we don't just let this thing be swept away by a whim of a few people. >> stephanie? >> every little girl has a dream, larry. i have a new one. i want to be gay married by kathy griffin. i want to marry a black woman. i want laura schlessinger to be my maid of honor at a mosque so every right-wing head