when i have done everything i h can do in the form of art to keep the memory alive of those who died. buright now i feel that this is what i'm supposed to do. >> that's it for us tonight. i'm don lemon at the cnn world headquarters in atlanta. see you back here tomorrow night 6:00 and 10:00 p.m. eastern. and we leave you tonight with the familiar tribute in light, now synonymous with ground zero, symbolizing the fallen on that day. day. good night. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com nine years ago in the aftermath of 9/11, the united states had one sworn enemy. fast forward to 2010. >> we're commanded to terrorize the disbelievers. and this is a religion, like i said. >> you're commanded to terrorize the disbelievers? >> the koran says very clearly inheab arabic language, [ speaking foreign language ] .

this means terrorize them. >> a decade later bin laden's message, jihad against the west, is more of a threat now than ever. his words have taken root in a new generation of radical muslims embracing everything he represents. >> i love osama bin laden. i love him -- like i can't begin to tell you. good evening. i'm drew griffin. we welcome viewers in the u.s. and aroundhe world. for the next hour we're going to take you from new york to yemen, even to the hills of jamaica to meet some of the new jihadists determined to carry on in bin laden's name. moderate muslims may denounce and disavow them, but these newcomers are undeterred as they openly call for the destruction of everything that doesn't conform to their radical view of islam. at the top of their list, the very country that gives them the

freedom of speech to spew their hatred, the united states. with us for the entire hour, two of cnn's experts on terrorism who track these threats closely, national securitcontributor fran townsend and senior international correspondent nic roberts robertson. thanks, guys. stand by. at this moment perhaps no one is of greater concern to the u.s. he is a u.s. citizen deemed so dangerous his own country is trying to kill him. the american-born al awlaki is emerging as one of al qaeda's top recruiters. here's nic's report on why the u.s. regards him as the potential heir to osama bin laden. >> it was an opening. it was victory. >> reporter: anwar al awlaki, >> rain was mecy. >> reporter: the radical yemen-based preacher seen here online. his followers in britain say he's like osama bin laden. >> he remind me of, for example,

sheikh osama bin laden and also ayman al zawahiri in terms of he's soft spoken and at the same time the knowledge that they have, the foundations that they have. >> and he said hand me over your skulls. >> reporter: this ishe same anwar al awlaki who exchanged e-mails with al hasan, accused of killing people at ft. hood. on his website he praised hasan, calling him a hero. seven years ago he moved from the heu. to london and was still here when the alleged christmas day bomber abdulmutallab al farouk began university here. intelligence are investigatinge the day they met. this is the mosque where alawaki did most of his preaching. there's been no indication abdulmutallab met him here but during the nigerian's three

years in london he almost undoubtedly met some of all awlaki's admirers. oumouaz was one of the thousands who flocked to al awlaki's lectures. >> people loved his classes, the way he explained things. >> reporter: to these radical muslims in london with who abdulmutallab shared a hate in iraq al awlaki was god's r messenr. but not for everyone. hassan was once a radical himself. he met al awlaki and heard him speak in a lontidon mosque in 2002, telling the congregation police had mistreated a fellow muslim. >> and this is an insult to islam and we have to do somethinabout it. it's very dangerous to work people up and say let's do something about it. and if they don't know how to channel, that they will take it out somewhere. >>assan has since turnedt is back on extremism but found outp later in private al awlaki expressed even more extreme views.

>> behind closed doors i was told he conducted closed study circles justifying suicide bombing, for example, including in the west. >> reporter: justifying suicide bombings? >> justifying suicide bombings against civilians. he regarded them as legitimate targets. >> reporter: al awlaki was eventually banned from visitg the uk. even though anwar al awlaki can't come back into britain 's still getting his message out. box sets of his dvds are openly on sale, selling for about $100 epa, and the storekeeper here says they're amon his hottest-selling items because most people buying them believe awlaki is mainstream. whether on ds, the internet, or behind closed doors, awlaki has inspired people to terrorism. in london court transcripts reveal that at least some of the group th conspired to blow up passenger jets en route to the

u.s. in 06 were awlaki devotees. so too terrorists in toronto convicted of planning to blow up targets in canned p. and in the united states. the six men arrested in may 2007 convicted of planng to kill soldiers at ft. dix in new jersey. >> ever since i heard this lecture brother i want everyone to hear about it. you know why? because he gives it to you raw and uncut. >> reporter: what you are hearing are three of the ft. dix plotters praising awlaki. awlaki is influential because of his background. he wasun in the united states. his father was a minister in the yemeni government. he is smart and privileged. he preached at imam jahari malik's mosque in virginia. >> young, handsome, californian. has the benefit of english without an accent.

and who also is proficient in the arabic language. in fact, he is technicly an arab. what better mix? >> reporter: the imam doesn't a agree th awlaki, but it was at his mosquewlaki met two of the 9/11 bombers. although there is no evidence he knew what they were planning. but what's on everyone's mind now is what influence awlaki may have had on a young nigerian either here or in yemen. nic robertson, cnn, london. >> and a reminder. cnn's nic robertson and fran townsend, former homeland security adviser under president bush, will join me for the entire hour to discussde how bi laden's message has turned viral. but first, the question now, whether the u.s. in some way is elevating the status of anwar al awlaki, the new bin laden, and whether the death sentence hanging overis his head has actuallylp helped him raise mon

and recruit new terrorists. >> i think that many authorities in yemen believe that we elevate him further if we actually do kill h. >> the potential making of a martyr. when we come b k. you can make it in just 14 minutes. mmmh, orange chicken. great. i didn't feel like ing out anyway. announcer ] wanchai ferry. restaurant quality chinese in your grocer's freezer. we get double miles on every purchase. echo! so wearned a trip to the grand canyon twice as fast. uh-oh. we get double miles every time we use our card. i'll take these. no matter what we're buying. plus the damages. and since double miles add up quick, we can bring the whole gang. it's hard to beat double miles. no, we ride them! [ male announcer ] introducing the venture card from capital one, with double miles on every purchase every day. go to capitalone.com. what's in your wallet? oh, that's the spot! old legs. p.a.d., the doctor said. p-a-d... p.a.d. isn't just poor circulatioin your legs

causing you pain. it more than doubles your risk of a heart attack or stroke. i was goingo tell you. if you have p.a.d., plar vix can help protect yu from a heart attack or stroke. plavix helps keep blood platelets from sticking together and forming clots, the cause of most heart attacks from sticking together and and strokes.s, call the doctor about plavix -- please? i will. [ male announcer ] certain genetic factors and some medicines such as prilosec reduce the effect of plavi leaving you at greater risk for heart attack and stroke. your doctor may use genetic tests to determine treatment. don't stop taking plavix without talking to your doctor as your risk of heart attack or stroke may increase. people with stomach ulcers or conditions that cause bleeding should not use plavix. taki ng plavix alone or with some other medicines including aspirin may increase bleeding risk, so tell your doctor when planning surgery. te your doctor all medicines y take inclung aspirin especially if you've had a stroke. if fever, unexplained weakness or confusion develops, tell your doctor promptly. these may be signs of ttp, a rare but potentially life-threatening condition, reported sometimes less than two weeks after starting plavix.

other rare but serious side effects may occur. [ female announcer ] talk to your doctor about plavix. anwar al awlaki, the man behind so many current threats, could in some way be even more dangerous haad tn alive. the u.s. now sees him as a threat, calls him an enemy, and has made him a military target. among extremists that may have also made him more powerful than ever. four years ago in london bilal e berlach first heard and first began to see how this

english-speaking cleric was attract i attracting young muslim students like himself. >> he said hand me over. >> they all thought awlaki was brilliant. >> i mean, we musteme rer that anwar al awlaki came on the scene at time when there aren' that many muslim-born british scholars and he is one of them. so the appeal is obviously fantastic. >> anwar alawlaki is young, spoke english eloquently. toany muslims seeking direction he was a rock star. but then almost overnight baloch says his message took on a more sinister tone. >> the evolution is what worries me. here is someone telling us we should be praying behaving a particular way and holding up the moral high ground as muslims should and suddenly he is saying there should be a call to violence. >> reporter: anwar al awlaki now

preaches hatred, and according to u.s. intelligence sources he recently became not just a preacher of violence but a planner. >> the belief is that he's gettingc into more specific ha aspects from his safe haven in yemen, he's able to become more operational so, he's not just recruiting and motivating jihadists but it's believed that senior al qaeda leaders in the arabian peninsula, specifically eamen, are listening to him. >> in other words, this english-speaking mouthpiece for al qaeda's global jihad is now deeply involved in actual attempts to kill westerners as was believed was done by follower and alleged ft. hood shooter major nidal hasan. the u.s. government has decided anwar awlaki is an enemy and has ised a capture or kill order for him. pat d'amuro if former assistant director of the fbi's counterterrorism division. should we kill him?

is that the right thing to do? >> the pmal is to protect our citizens. globally. and when you have information of individuals that are planning to conduct terrorist attacks and are espousg rhetoric tovi invigorate others or get others to conduct those attacksdu then that individual is a threat to our national security. >> but there is a risk. awlaki was virtually an unknown just a few years ago. w he's front-page news, being compared to osama bin laden himsel killing him, says tom fuentes, could turn him into a lege. >> i think that many authorities in yemen believe that we elevate him further if we actually do kill m. we'll make him a martyr, and his videos and recordings and other messages, writings, will live on and on and maybe even have increased circulation after his death. >> for bilal baloch killing him he says will also eliminate any possibilities of learning why awlaki turned from recruiting

young men to islam to now recruiting young men to kill. >> i think targeting awlaki and killing him is going to add fuel to the fire. cometelyt going to marginalize those who agree that his violent views now are wrong but ju st want to know why this happened. and i think even -- even let's look beyond this situion. because as i said, it's awlaki today. it could very well be someone tomorrow. >> i want to bring in fran townsend andic robertson for this. fran, you're a former homeland security adviser. is there any value -- it sounds somewhat idealistic. but learning why awlaki has gone from perhaps an islamic scholar to a radical terrorist? >> of course there's some interest in understanding that. but i must tell you that that is this man represents.he refar outweighed by the threat he's not new to intelligence and w enforcement officials. they've been tracking him for the better part the last nine years. he has played an increasingly operational role, as you heard

from tom fuentes, ani disagree with tom. look, he is a very real and persistent threat. he is now among the leaders in the arabian peninsula, and we have a duty, a solemn duty and obligation to protect the american people from future attas when we know where they're coming from. d he's one of those places. and so he is an absolutely legitimate national security target for capture or kill operation. >> this was the obama administration's call to turn him into a military target, not the bush administration, which you worked for, fran. is it a tough call? a u.s. citizen we're talking about. >> it's allri- you're absolutely right, drew. t and it is always a tough call. there's an entire process that one goes through, weighing this matter. and lawyers are involved to make sure there's sufficient evidence that he isn imminent and real threat to the american people. but look, on al awlaki i don't think it's a close call. i think it's pretty clear that he warrants and i think the administration was right to authorize such action.

>> nic, he's being compared to osama bin laden. we can also compare him that we can't get him like osama bin laden. h we can't capture or ki him because we don't know where he is. your reporting has been excellent on this. any reporting that ss we're close? we're getting nearer to him? >> there's nothing that seems to indicate that. he's very probably in yemen, and that's the best belief where he's hiding out. his homeland where he can at least get some sort of tribal loyalty perhaps and al qae camp as well perhaps to hide out in. the difficulty there for the government to get him in yemen, the yemeni government-s there's a lot of the country that they don't control. just two days ago at the end of ramadan in a small town in yemei more than 40 police were threatened by armed al qaeda on e stre, either repent being in the police or face us coming out to kill you. soes this gives you an idea how strong al qaeda and their supporters are in yemen at the moment. so there are plenty of places that he can hide out. of course the holy grail of

capturing awlaki if you could do that would be that one do i he would repent, and that would be a very powerful anti-al qaeda message. that's probably dreaming too far. but there are jihadists around the world who have done that, and they're the strongest people about turning others against al qaeda, drew. >> and real quickly, nic, no doubt in your mind that he has b become basically a leader of this movement? >> there seems to be no doubt about it at the moment, and it's very difficult to tell, but hce inspirational figure. his message is mainstream. there are an awful lot of people who listen to him who aren't terrorists, but that seems tbe the case. >> all right. much more still ahead on this ninth anniversary of 9/11 including how the radical message of osama bin laden found its wao y om the remote mountains of afghanistan to the crowded streets of new york city. >> we're commanded to terrorize the disbelievers. spend billions of dollars -- f >> and america continues to >> american converts now preaching the destruction of theiown country.

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hello, everyone. i'm don lemon. checking some of your top stories right now, america remembers 9/11 nine years later. at new york's ground zero, at

the pentagon, and in shanksville, pennsylvania people gather to honor the almost 3,000 people who died in the terror attacks. at the pentagon president barack obama urged americans notto nation's values.and to remain kentucky police have identified 47-year-old stanley nees as the gunman in a murder-suicide in rural eastern kentucky. he apparently killedngun five pe before turninghi the gun on himself. among the dead are hi wife and stepson. police say the shooting followed a domestic dispute in a mobile home near jackson. >>five people remainno missing in san bruno, california after thursday's massive gas fire. new remains have been found, but it's not determined if they are four bodies were foun earlier human. after the inferno incinerated homes and cars. pakistan is bracing for more rain as a monsoon retrts from the country. but despite the new downpours, at least one river's expected to fall from high to medium flood vel. the floods have left 10 million people whout shelter.

the unitede nations calls the disaster the worst it has ever faced. army staff sergeant salvatore giunta is going to receive the army's highest award for valor. he's the first living recipient from the warsgh in iraq and afghanistan to earn the medal of honor. he helped save one soldier during a taliban attack in afghanistan and saved another as two taliban fighters were capturing him. about 3,400 medals of honor have been award s war. i'm don lemon at the cnn world headquarters in atlanta. "bin laden's new jihadists" continues in a momen you can't have a box top on a can. yes we can. but a can isa box. we know. i don't think you do. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.

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back to a radical muslim cleric who successfully incited his followers to act, often suicidally. i recently traveled to jamaica to meet one of those clerics, only to discover there were strings attached to our interview. we came to meet the radical islamic preacher known as the jamaican on his own turf. and up a winding road into the jamaican hillside we climbed. >> so we think this is it. >> reporter: where sheikh abdullah al faisal invited us. an interview, he said, to clear his name from an awful past. >> hello? >> reporter: but we quickly learned sheikh al faisal had told us a lie. >> is the sheikh i >> no. >> can you tell us where he is? >> he's not here yet. >> not here yet? he's not back from kingston?

>> reporter: faisal had lured cnn to his island part of a shakedown. cnn does not pay for interviews. the sheik was asking for $15,000 just to talk. why are you charging us so much money just to talk to you? most recently arrested in kenya, authorities say this 46-year-old jamaican was encouraging young muslims to fight in somalia. his arrest sparked riots, leading to five dead and leading kenya to deport al faisal back to his native jamaica. u.s. intelligence officials and jaica's justice ministry tell cnn they are carefully watching. the caribbean and its poverty has long been thought to be a potential new home for a terrorist message. and the sheikh has never stopped preaching. through internet chat rooms. and sending out tapes. >> the fear is that even isolated down that road in a home that this islamic scholar, this preacher of radical islam could have an effect on the polation here, gather a following, and perhaps influence others to follow the paths of

the terrorists who have followed him. >> reporter: it's the reason we came to this island to interview al faisal, invited by the sheikh himself, who promised he would explain himself once we arrived. when we did arrive, his new agent explunained to us there would be no interview unless we paid $15,000. cnn does not pay for any interviews. but during three telephone conversations and one face-to-face meetis ng, the sheh did try to explain how he was misinterpreted. when he said muslims should fight and kill jews, crips, american christia, americans, and hindus. at was the old sheikh, he told me. "i've reformed since then." >> i am just asking you, do you feel any guilt at all that these men listen to you and then went out and trd to kill people and some of them did kill people? do they listen to many clerics? do you feel any guilt that they listen to you? i'm asking you question. so you will not answer that question right now?

he just hung up. he says he won't do the interview. he won't do the interview unless he gets paid, period, and he won't answer that question. there may be good reason the sheik needs to be paid. he's economically and even socially isolated here. the vast majority of jamaicans are christian. a religion the sheik calls paganism. the islamic council will not allow the sheik to preach in any of jamaica's dozen or so mosques until he denounces his radical . teachings. >> i have not spoken to him not even for a minute since his return to jamaica. >> but that has not stopped the sheik from preaching in homes around jamaica, gathering followers, and especially over the internet. listen to this. >> my god isot obama. my dean is islam, and our sharia, it will rule america. >> it is the sheik in an internet forum at the end of

july titled "the battle of washington." he declas shariaaw will one le day rule this country if muslims make sacrifices. >> if we want that white house and we desire to conquer that white house, we need to be people who suffer hardship. i believe it is a matter of time when we will see the emir established within the white house. >> let's bring in our guests again. fran, that does sound rather extreme. he would defend himself by saying, look, i didn't tell anybody to go bomb the white house, but certain it can be interpreted any which way you can, eecially if you're an isolated at home on your computer. is there any way to fight this from a counterterrorism point of view? >> well, you know, it's very difficult, drew. we've had much discussion in tht recent week ov first amendment rights. i mean, you may say things that are abhorrent to me, but you have a legal right to say them. and so what in stigatordo is os they look for somebody to cross the line. i mean, you know, this man, if

he's in kenya and recruiting people to go fight in somalia, it's reminiscent of omar hummami, an alabama-born guy who winds up fighting somalia, and using 14 peopline who get indicted here in the united states, 12 of them are over in somalia fighting now. these guys are legally responsible for those they recruit to go and kill. it's the point you were trying to make if sheik faisawould have given you the interview, and that he does have legal culpability for. pethat does cross the line from free speech. >> nic, do you know what surprises me about all of these is just how many threats we've had, how close we've comanotto another horrific terrorist attack, and behind each one is a kind of spiritual leader, if you will, that youan track where e message came from and where it was misinterpreted. >> and that's one of the hardest things to stop because these messages can be disseminated in a back room somewhere.

they can be disseminated on the internet but it is people listening to somebody they believe is right about the faith, who distorts the faith and then pushes them and encourages them into action or drawing into a training camp in pakistan, where many of these weaining camps are. >> one of the toughest things i think we have to deal with as we move on in our show is the radical message that is not coming from the outside to the units states but coming from the united states out to the world. i want to show you just a little piece tape here from the streets of new york by a man who i interviewed last year who told me thathe attacks on 9/11, nine years ago, were justified. this is an american. >> disavow and make hatred and enmity between democracy, between nationism, between secularism. and that you see obama as the enemy he really is.

>> revolution muslim. they run a website that praises attacks on the u.s., congratulates the ft. hood shooter for his attack.d and when we come back, we'll discuss what we should do with them. you could win a once in a lifetime chance to live your passion by choosing from ten never-dreamed-possible prizes. from a customized v.i.p. vacation, to a hollywood red carpet experience, to cooking with a celey chef, and more. find details on specially marked boxes of cheerios. why cheerios? because whatever you love doing, you'll need a healthy heart to do it. ♪ we get double miles on every purchase. echo! so we earned a trip to the grand canyon tce as fast. uh-oh. we get double miles every time we use our card. i'll take these. no matter what we're buying. plus the damages. and since double miles add up quick, we can bring the whole gang. it's hard to beat double miles. no, we ride them!

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giving the fresh flavors and textures a homeme meal. marie's new steamed meal it's time to savor. you can find osama bin laden's message being preached on the streets of new york, street corners right in front of mosques here in the united states, preachers who prea

violence, who preach hatred, who are trying to attract people to the cause, their cause, of bringing some kind of sharia law to the united states and to the world. people who look on osama bin laden not as a villain but as a hero, and they spread that on thinternet and on the streets. i want to bring back in our guests, nic robertson, you know those fellows well, revolution muslim. they've made an industry out of this. and the question that i posed before the break, is there any way you can stop the message from being spread? >> a counter msage. a stronger counter message from people that are more credible than them. one counterterrorism official to me, d that group revolution muslim, as really the bug lights that draw in wannabe jihadists,eople who are drawn to this radical message.p sometimes, though, this group doesn't provide enough of a radical message, and it's often these people who come into the periphery and then move on because they want more, they want action, they want to get to

the al qaeda training camps. what is required is a counter message, and that is beginning to emerge. some muslim groups worried about their children, abt this influence that's out there on their kids, are putting up websites or plan to put up websites that will give a more tolerant message of islam so when these kids are trawling around looking for radicalism they will come up with an alternate message, and really that's going to be the key to it. because there's no silver bullet other than people getting a different message. >> fran, many people have said that that message has been long in coming.ha has the united states -- has counterterrorism, has homeland security tried to urge the moderate muslim community to get on the stick here, that law enforcement can't do this alone? >> there's been a lot of work in this area, drew, but it's very difficult. i mean, oftentimes those very people that you would like to carry the counter message that nic's talked about are intimidated, f.rful, don't want to attract attention.

and so it's been a long time coming. i think it's fair to say. and the u.s. government, while we have tried -- they tried vero hard to post this sort of counternarrative as we used to call it, it is not credible unless it's coming from the muslim community itself. and so now that we see some of this -- you know, there was this case in northern virginia whereo the family reported to authorities that their sons had left and they were arrested in pakistan. that's the kind of cooperation, that's the kind of moral courage we need to see more publicly demonstrated more ofanten, frankly, so that there is this counter message, that this is not going -- this form of violence and jihadism is not going to be tolerated within the muslim community itself. >> i want to play for both of you an interview i did this week with imam shamsi ali. he certainly has faced the brunt of these radical elements by preaching tolerance, by preaching against this kind of jihadist version of islam.

and here's what he said exactly to your point about stopping the spread of this on the internet. you can't stop the internet, it appears. governments have tried and failed. so would you ever consider reaching out to these various people who support this on the internet, who put it on the internet? >> to a different engagement, basically, we try to reach them out. it is through youth programs, and we invite them to join so that we can have a discussion. and even i call it debate with them. but the problem is that these people are very much exclusive. they even don't come to the mainstream mosque, for example, to pray regulay. they have their own place where they gather, where they spread out their extremist ideas, and so it's very difficult to root them out. but we are constantly reminding our ung in the communities that these are dangerous trends.

and so what we are doing is, number one, trying to prevent from -- to prevent other young people from being influenced. secondly, we try to compete with them, and this is why we produce as much as we can the moderate w et.s of islam and upload into the internet. that's what we can do. >> fran, i thought two things were very interesting about my conversation with shamsi ali, the imam there from the culturar center of new york. number one, there is no discussionetweenadical islam and moderate islam. attempts by moderate muslims have failed. and number two, he almost speaks about getting these youth like we would before they take that first drug, before they take that cigarette, that you have to get these people before they get indoctrinated towards this kind of dical islam. >> that's exactlright, d trew. the same thing that the imam you spoke with in new york has experienced there, the very same thing happened here at the washington islamic center, where radicals would be outside the mosque harassing people as they

went in, you know, preaching this sort of hateful version of islam. and insi here was the imam preaching a message of tolerance and peace. it really is very difficult -- this notion -- i had to smile when shamsi ali said "we have to compete." i think that's exactly what needs to happen here. they really have a competitive idea -- a competitive version of islam that ought to be more attractive to young people. it really is a message of tolerance and peace, and there is tremendous effort put in this, especially here in washington , which is a multiethnic population and cultural center. they try very hard to compete with the radical message. >> all right. fran townsend, nic robertson rejoin me after the break. we're going to discuss, guys, the biggest threat of all, the lone wolf, tse terrorists not even on our radar yet. mes with . great news! for people with copd, including chronic chbronitis,

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ever since the 9/11 attacks somef the most high-profile plots against the u.s. have come from people who were completely off the radar. feel like faisal shahzad, who pleadedil gu tty to the times

square bomb plot and umar farouk abdulmutallab accuserid of trying to blow up airliner last christmas day with a bomb in his underwear. they were complete unknowns until they launched their attacks. nic robertson and fran townsend are again with me. and guysy , before we get to th discussion, let me play a littlr sound from homeland security secretary janet napolitano today, nine years later, as she talks about the changing threat we're facing. >> now, the old view, that if we fight terrorists abroad we won't have to fight them here, is just that. it's an old view. it is abundantly clear that we have to fighterrorists abroad. we have to fight them at home. p we have to fight them, period. >> fran, we did, when this first started out, we fought them over there. either they were destroyed and scattered or we've created more of them. o any thoughts on that? >> i'm not so sure that it's an either/or. i frankly think what we'

seeing is al qaeda has adapted to many of the things we put in place to try to protect ourselves. we strengthened border security. we got greater security, intelligence, law enforcement effort against those who would cross our borders to do us harm. so what would you do to get around that protection? you try to look for a way to e. a recruit people inside the united states or who have the ability re travel across our borders. you look at things like times square, nidal hasan at ft. hood and christmas day. and you understand that the lo wolf is an incredibly difficult thing for law enforcement and intelligence to target and be effective against. and that's exact what makes it so valuable to al qaeda. it requires tremendous resources and some luck in order to identify them before they act. and you know, it's the old saying, drew, they onlyave to be right once, and secretary napolitand and women who try to prect us, they've got to be right every single timffe. and so it's a very, very difficult threat to combat. >> nic, what has always amazed

me when we learn who these people are behind these threats whether it's faisal shahzad or umar abdulmutallab, many men of privilege, mechb learni ng, ilege, men of le usually men of means, and there doesn't seem to be any shortage of them. you travel a lot in the muslim world. where are these people coming from? >>hey're coming from well-educated families, well-off families where they've had a chance to sort of see western influence, if you will, perhaps on members of their family or in some cases have gone out to nightclubs-v been drinking, and in some cases have gone back to islam and said that was all wrong and have wanted a mored radical version of it and then mixed with other people who have ese radical ideas and then mixed with even more extreme radicals. so that seems to be where they're coming from. people who sort -- >> i'm sorry, nic.

fran, i just want to ask you on that point, can wee fairly say that these people are brainwashed? >> i think that'exactly what happens. you know, they get preached -- in the piece on anwar alwlaki, he began by preaching strict adherence to islam, and the message gradually got more radical, more violent, if you withat. .and i think that's what you se ppening here. that they become very much adherents to the strict principles of islam. then it's a more radical message. and then what happens is they're encouraged to look for an opportunity to act on this radical, perverted preaching of islam, and then they're given an opportunity.ry and so it seems to follow a very distinct pattern that it's an ut evolion over time where they're gradually walked down a path, whether or not they really reize that's where it's going to end up. >> and nic, i'm not asking for a silver lining here, but are there less and less of them? the reason that we're seomeing them come from various parts of the world instead of one part of the world is because the ranks

are growing thin?o. >> i would say n i would say that there are more out there that are buying into osama bin laden's radical message of alobal jihad and a global caliphate and there are more and more people that see other people taking those steps and think i sould do that. you kno for every one of these people that are successful or cle tot being obsuccessful, tha probably spurs on another half a dozen lone wolves that we don't know about. so i think the indications are you now have al qaeda in yemen, they're still partially a tiny bit there in afghanistan in pakistan, in north africa, nigeria we've seen now, somalia as well. so many more places. and in europe, of course. the germans said they have 400 people, would-be jihadists on their terror radar inside germany. >> all right, nic, thanks. nine years after anybody.9/11 tn afghanistan is only getting larger. yet almost no one ever mentions capturing or killing him, osama bin laden. coming up after the break, does

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ttnine years to the day the man behind the attacks on september 11th remains free. osama bin laden today has a $27 million bounty on his head. here's nic's report on how the head of al qaeda has eluded capture and assassination for these past years. >> reporter: late in 2001 u.s. bombs fell on tora bora in afghanistan, al qaeda's last holdouts. osa bin laden escaped, his whereabouts until now thought to be a mystery. >> there was an ability in western intelligence to track his movementsfor a number of years to identify the people that he was meeting, to identify

his role in certain plots. >> reporter: cnn terrorism analyst paul cruickshank has new informion on bin laden's movements from a former senior european intelligence official who had an informant cse to the al qaeda leader. >> and western intelligence was able to actually draw a map between 2003 and 2004 of where bin laden was moving around.r:ew >> reporter: the new information reveals this video would have been no surprise for intelligence agencies. the informant waselling them bin laden was quily regrouping meeting leaders, even with the 9/11 mastermind, khalid shaikh mohammed, before his arrest in 2003. >> he starts to communicate again with some of his top al qaeda lieutenants. he meets with khalid shaikh mohammed in the period after11 9/11. he meets very frequently with ayman al zawahiri. >> reporter: but despite the flow of information from the pakistan-afghan border there were immense frustrations. the source was unablto i obtain actionablenformation on bin

laden's movements, and the al qaeda leader kept on the move, constantly. >> the closest they got was a sort of week away from where he was. so they were never able to call in a strike. >> reporter: by 2006 bin laden seemed to be settling down. his video and audio messages were more frequent. he was clearly more comfortable. and for reasons unknown, the informant's intelligence dried up. but contrary to conventional wisdom that bin laden's trail is dead, cruickshank's source says otherwise. >> it's unclear what the quality of thatntelligence is that's coming in, but there is intelligence on his movements which continues to come in and being analyzed all the time. >> reporter: indeed, the source says the evidence suggests that all these years later bin laden and zawahiri are still in close communicion, directing al qaeda, and are often not far apart. the trail has not gone entirely cold.

nic robertson, cnn, london. a new poll out today to cnn and opion research corpation asingly ericans peincre pessimistic about the hunt for osambif edn laden. when asked if the u.s. will be able to capture or kill him, 67% now say not likely. just 30% call his capture likely. this pessimism h been growing steadily since the 2001 attacks. you can see back then only 21% considered osama bin laden's capture unlikely. in 2005 that had grown to 42%. by last year it was up to 54%. nic robertson, the question i have, from the radical islamic perspective, is osama bin laden still the driving force in this movement? is he even relevant? or has it gone beyond him? >> he is perhaps not the driving force, but he is an inspirational leader, so he is stilsel very much relevant, and there was a case back in 2006 whe al qaeda seemed to get ahead of him.

the al qaeda leader in iraq zarqawi was sort of so much more radical recruiting people from all over the region.bin laden h the big guy in iraq now. but things have moved on. and certainly bin laden has shown that when he says something people will act on it. for example, attacking danish interests at the danish newspaper published cartoons of the prophet mohammed. so he's still relevant to the organization. he's still figurehead. so his capture or killing is still a very, very importa issue, i would say. >> and fran, to win the r on terror, if you can even do that, is killing or capturing osama bin laden still necessary? >> oh, i think it is both necessary and will remain a priority. it has across multiple administrations and it will continue to be. look, he is not -- as nic says, inspirational and key to their

recruitment, fund-raising, and training. for those reasons he will p continue to be a priority. it's understandable that the american people with so much time going past have less confidence but what they don't see is sort of what goes on behind the curtain o.f the u.s. government. intelligence resources have been increased. their capability has increased. we see increasing activity of predator drones in the tribal areas by the current administration. all of this suggests to me looking in now from the outside that the intelligence is improving and so they're more likely, not less likely, to get the intelligence they need to eith capture or kill bin laden.th >> well, nine years after the attack that sparked this entire movement, we are still faced with all these questions. i want to thank you both for joining , fran townsend in washington, nic robertson in abu dhabi. i am drew griffin. at the cnn world headquarters in atlanta. thank you for joining us. thank you for joining us. good night. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com why does it say box tops for education on your up? oh, it's a program that raises money for schools. that's great, but this is a can. yes it is. you can't have a box top on a can.

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