brain. and it can change. and that is so exciting. >> larry: cara? >> for me, too. the real holy grail for most people of neuroscience is how does consciousness, how does our mind come from brain and that's so fascinating. >> larry: thanks to all of you for a great hour. next week, president carter is here monday. barbara walters tuesday. iranian president ahmadinejad will be here wednesday and jerry seinfeld on thursday. how are we doing so far? "ac 360" starts right now.

former fbi officials. louis gohmert talked about it. >> they wouldn't even have to pay anything for the baby.

and then they would return back where they could be raised and coddled as future terrorists. and then one day, 20, 30 years down the road, they could be sent in to help destroy our way of life because they figured out how stupid we are being in this country. >> he never offered any actual proof. and we had congressman gohmert on this program and repeatedly asked him for proof. he basically just yelled at me and said i was attacking him. >> you're going to keep me honest? you tell the world that you've got an fbi statement. you bring on a retired fbi former supervisor and he says we were not aware of any credible report that this was going on? i brought it to the attention of america for this reason. it was -- i'm a former judge. i know -- >> did you bring it to the attention of the fbi? >> i first brought it to my attention on the -- she brought it to my attention on an airplane, having flown together, and she brought that to my attention. that's why i was talking to the retired fbi agent about it. and so having talked to him, no, i didn't talk to them because the point is --

>> it went on like that. by the way, he's still not offered any proof about what these allegedly these ex-fbi officials told him or any evidence this is actually happening. we, of course, called the fbi. they said they know nothing about this. a form high-ranking fbi official who worked throughout the middle east for years came on this program say the whole idea is ridiculous. they don't have trouble recruiting terrorists. they don't need to create baby manchurian candidates. he also told us this is in all his time in the middle east, the fbi never got any reports about this. okay. tonight, though, we focus on the other texas lawmaker making these claims. she's a texas state representative. debbie riddle. she is the one who first brought the idea to our attention when we had her booked to talk about illegal immigration and the 14th amendment. i hadn't heard of louie gohmert's claims yet when i interviewed debbie riddle on august 10th. >> you told my producer that pregnant women are coming here as tourists, having babies and coming back with a nefarious purpose of turning them into little terrorists who will then

come back to the u.s. and do us harm. you said it's part of an organized terrorist element that can cost us lives. where did you hear that? >> that is information that is coming to my office from former fbi officials. >> what former fbi officials, i mean, what evidence is there of some sort of long-term plot to have american -- babies born here and then become -- raised as terrorists overseas and then come back here? >> well, at this point, i don't have the hard evidence right here in front of me. however, this is something that is being talked about by various members of congress. this is being looked into. this is an issue with not only folks coming across our southern border, with what is called anchor babies and coming over for the entitlement programs and for that sort of thing. but i think that this is a lot more sinister issue. >> so for days after that interview, we followed up with

riddle's office trying to get some evidence but they never did back up her statements. we assumed debbie riddle would not repeat her unproven claim. we were surprised to learn not only is debbie riddle still saying this terror phenomenon is happening. she's now claiming we ambushed her and were unfair to her on television. i really try to be fair to all my guests. we decided to check her latest claims against the facts. here's part of what we said about my ber view with her at a forum run by the "texas tribune. >> oh, man. does anybody know what getting blindsided means? yeah, the -- when anderson cooper's office called my office and asked if i would come on it was regarding illegal immigration and women coming across our southern border for the sole intent of giving birth here so that the children would be full american citizens.

>> so that's her first complaint. that we said we were going to ask about one thing and decided to ask about another. the truth is we did talk in the interview about illegal immigration and so-called anchor babies and tourist babies and women coming here to give birth illegally. that was the second part of the interview. you can check the transcript. i asked her first about her statements on what we call terror babies because it was completely unproven and the only reason we knew of her belief, we knew about this whole phenomenon, this claim is because what miss riddle herself told my producer before the program. on programs like this, on all tv shows, if possible, before a guest comes on, a producer preinterviews the guest over the phone. they take notes. these are jack gray's notes from the phone conversation. he types them as she speaks them. while they may not be word for word, they're very accurate. here's what ms. riddle told jack gray. she said we have two problems with babies born to illegal immigrants. we have women who sneak across the border illegally with the intent to give birth to children

here so they can become little american citizens. which is exactly the phrase she used this week on the stage in texas. the other problem she says is tourism babies. we have women from middle eastern countries, she says, even china who come over here, overstay their visas and have their babies here and take their babies home with the nefarious again, her word nefarious purpose of turning them into little terrorists who then will come back to the u.s. and do us harm. she conclude by telling jack it's part of an organized terrorist element and could cost us lives. ms. riddle seems to have a completely different recollection of her conversation with jack gray. >> and then right at the end of the conversation he said do you know anything about these tourism babies. and i said, well, yeah -- >> terrorism babies? tourism babies. terror babies was not my term. that was their term. they made up, i guess, before we went on the air. but he said do you know anything about these tourism babies,

women that come over on a tourist visa. and i said yes. i'm familiar with it. i refer to it as vacation babies because they come over sensibly on a vacation. and he said how do you know about it? and i said, well, i've got some friends, retired fbi folks. we've talked about it. and there's been some things on tv. >> she says she said vacation babies, not tourism babies. fair enough. she and jack had been talking about women coming here. some of them on tourist visas specifically to have babies who become american citizens. she brought up the terror angle. she brought it up out of the blue. i never heard about it. jack gray never heard about it. he didn't mention it to her because he never heard about it. none of us even -- or didn't know that louis gohmert had talked about it before miss riddle goes on. she claims she was not used to being on tv, even though she's been in this office for many years and that we asked her about terror babies and she didn't understand what we were talking about. >> when you are stuck in a room, a -- something about half the

size of this stage, you are sitting there with this background and there's no monitor, no tv. you can't see any body language. there's nothing you can see. all you are looking at is a black box and a thing stuck in your ear. and then all of a sudden, they are coming on with this terror baby thing which i had never heard. it was like what? and to be quite honest, it's a little bit like walking into a boxing ring and getting slammed in the face the first thing. and it takes you a minute to kind of get your footing and get your equilibrium back. >> all right, remember, she's been a politician for years. she was booked on this program to debate with a democratic lawmaker in texas. she's certainly prepared or should have been prepared for tough questions. she's the one who first mentioned to us this entire concept of future terrorist children. now i can understand why she's now spinning a story and trying to look like a victim of a bully during the interview she clearly was not expecting to be asked for proof of the claim she made.

she's probably used to making this claim and no one calling her on it. we did. that's my job. to hold public officials accountable. too often we let them get away with stuff that -- saying stuff on tv that the facts don't support. in that interview, she doesn't have any facts. >> all of these issues we need to look at because this is a critical, critical issue for all of the american public. >> but you have no actual evidence? >> other than that coming from former fbi folks. >> can you tell us who these former fbi folks are, what evidence they have or what evidence they've shown you? >> at this point, i'm not going to reveal that. >> well, she's never revealed that on or off the record to us. never let us speak to any of these people nor have louis gohmert. we moved on to other issues regarding illegal immigration and the 14th amendment. now ms. riddle says she asked a local expert about the terror baby theory, though she doesn't use that term. >> dr. aticut with st. mary

university. he is an expert. he is the only law professor in the nation that has facility that they teach -- what is it called -- terror law. that's what he teaches. and i visited with him at length on several occasions and asked him, do you think that i'm just nuts? or is this a possibility? and even dr. aticut says that this is something that he thinks is serious and we need to look into. >> again, fbi says it's not happening. they have no idea about it. former fbi officials tell us the same thing. we also called dr. aticut. he's never heard of any evidence of this phenomenon happening. he said it is possible it could happen. given the timeline of 20 or so years to raise a terrorist from birth, it's at the bottom of his list of terror concerns. he also said we he wouldn't make fun of someone concerned about it. i think that's a really important point. i'm not making fun of debbie riddle of louis gohmert.

they are both public officials. i have respect for them and their positions. my job is to ask people for facts, republicans, democrats, it doesn't matter. if a person is spreading fear and falsehood, it's my job to call them on that. if they are calling for legislation based on a rumor or story they've heard and can't back up with facts, that's important for us to know. facts matter. the truth matters. ms. riddle, who seems like a perfectly nice person can go on all the stages and play the victim and say i tricked her. but the bottom line is she still has no evidence and she shouldn't pretend that she does. let us know what you think. join the live chat at ac360.com. she rocked the primaries and defeated her republican rival. now delaware's christine o'donnell faces her conservative fans. but also new questions about campaign finances. we'll talk to one woman whose group wants a criminal investigation. later, country superstar trace adkins on what he thinks conservative voters want. >> these people don't want compromise. they don't want their conservative leaders to reach across the aisle and work with the other party. they want them to leer across

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in just a few days, delaware's republican senatorial nominee has gone from virilely unknown to sarah palin-style celebrity. she spoke this afternoon to the values voters summit in washington. >> will they attack us? yes. will they smear our backgrounds and distort our record? undoubtedly. will they lie about us, harass our families, name call and try to intimidate us? they will. there's nothing safe about it. but is it worth it? well let me ask you. is freedom worth it? >> yes! >> is america worth it? >> yes! >> are those unalienable rights

worth a little alienation from the beltway popular crowd? >> yes! >> i say yes, yes, a thousand times yes. >> she's talking about smears and distortions and certainly a lot of liberals in the media are going after her making fun of her, attacking her. all we care about are facts. nothing partisan about it. we've done a lot of segments on allegations against democrats, charlie rangel, eddie bernice johnson and other republicans as well. with that said, we learned a nonpartisan group, the citizens for responsibility and ethics in washington are calling for the u.s. attorney in delaware to launch a criminal investigation into miss o'donnell's finances. i want to bring in melanie sloan, the group's executive director. so why are you calling for a criminal investigation? >> we went through her campaign finance records and talking to one of her former campaign aides, someone you had on last night, david keegan. it turns out miss o'donnell has treated her campaign funds like they are -- her very own personal piggy bank. she's used that money to pay things like her rent, for gas, meals and even a bowling outing. and that's just flat out

illegal. >> but, i mean, we had the checks on the program last night. and it's a couple hundred dollars here. a couple hundred dollars there. does it really amount to much of anything? >> by our count it amounts to well over $20,000 in 2009 and 2010. and that's just the funds that we can look at and look at as clearly illegal. the fact is the federal election commission needs to do an audit to find out all of the expenses that ms. o'donnell has claimed as campaign related because it may well be that most them aren't. for example, in 2009, ms. o'donnell wasn't a candidate for anything yet she had numerous campaign expenses. things like travel and gas and yet she had no actual campaign. >> we called, obviously, her spokesperson for comment. we didn't get a response back from them. we haven't heard back from them yet. obviously, we still continue to welcome that. what is the likelihood -- you've called for an investigation. what does that actually mean? what is the next step? and how long, if u.s. attorney decided to do this, how long would something like that take?

>> well, it's hard to say. we'll be sending him a letter on monday. we're filing a complaint there and with the federal election commission. we're saying that ms. o'donnell committed the crime of conversion by abusing her campaign funds for personal use. she made false statements on the forms she filed with the federal election commission when she lied about some of her campaign expend tours and likely committed tax evasion by failing to declare the income from the campaign funds as personal income since she used it for personal expenses. so the u.s. attorney should start investigating. the fec should investigate. this could take many months. it won't be resolved before ms. o'donnell faces the voters in november. >> and to those of her supporters who no doubt will say this is just a smear. this is just, you know, a liberal group from washington trying to, you know, tarnish her because she's now, you know, in the running. >> well, the track record is clear. we're nonpartisan. we were on your show in the past couple of weeks talking about

eddie bernice johnson's problems, for example. we've certainly been out in front on charlie rangel and barbara waters. >> you actually called for charlie rangel to step down? >> yes. we've called for him to resign. we're about right and wrong and not about black or white, republican or democrat. and it is flat out wrong for a candidate for the u.s. senate to be stealing her campaign funds and using them for personal use. and you don't have to just take cruise word for it. you have her former campaign aide who is the one that brought this to our attention and supplied an affidavit for us talking about, for example, the times in 2009 when she used campaign funds to pay her rent to this campaign aide's nephew who bought her house in 2008 when it was about to be foreclosed upon. >> even if the u.s. attorney in delaware, though, believes this -- there's cause here for an investigation, that's a tough call for them to be investigating somebody. i mean it looks political no matter how you slice it. >> well, david weis, the u.s. attorney for delaware, was in the u.s. attorney's office during the bush administration. so he's not, by any stretch of the imagination, an obama

appointtee. and whether or not it looks political it is up to the department of justice to keep our elected officials honest. keep our candidates honest and this goes to the very heart of our democracy. everybody has to follow the same rules. ms. o'donnell included. >> melanie sloan, it's a fascinating time we're living in. we'll continue to follow it. thanks for being on. appreciate it. up next, rescuers striking pay dirt in a race to give miners in chile a safe way out of their hole in the ground. some welcome progress report to bring to you from the front line. later, crime and punishment. the mom panicked withdrawing 15,000 from a bank to pay the men holding their family hostage. this is the last time we saw the woman alive. new details tonight. a closer look at the alleged home invasion killers and what you should do in case a home invasion happens to you. we'll be right back. quickly and easily ails in the tightest spaces. more innovation, more great values. craftsman. trust. in your hands.

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good news to report on the trapped miners. the rescuers in chile who have been desperately trying to free the 33 men trapped underground for a month and a half made some real progress today. a bore hole dug by one of the emergency drills actually reached the miners. unfortunately, rescuers are still a long way from bringing them to the surface because the hole needs to be widened to bring them up and that is not easy. karl penhaul is in chile this with 360 dispatch. >> reporter: i want to explain why this is significant but of course why we can't shout

victory just yet. the plan "b" drill and you remember that three drills are in place now trying to reach the miners from different angles. now the plan "b" drill started drilling at two weeks ago. it already had an 8 centimeter bore hole to go down. that's what an 8 centimeter bore hole looks like. and the plan "b" drill was using that as a pilot hole. and that hole has now been widened. it's been widened to around 26, 28 centimeters. that is what 26, 28 centimeters looks like. and, of course, not yet wide enough to pull a man up through. and so the challenge now in the coming days and weeks is to widen that hole to something that looks more like this. a hole that is around 66 to 70 centimeters wide. they'll then put a cage in that and then the miners will be pulled up in that cage. now you'll appreciate that even

at that width, it is a bit of a squeeze, but nevertheless, the rescuers believe that all the miners will be able to fit in that kind of hole. >> amazing. we're going to continue to follow that. we're also following other important stories. isha sesay joins us. >> the parents of a washington woman are as baffled as everyone. they say they don't know why their daughter threw acid on her own face and then claimed that someone attacked her. the parents apologized for their daughter and said she'll get counseling. london police arrested six people today on suspicion of terrorism. local news reports said the arrests were linked to a potential threat against pope benedict xvi who is in london on a state visit. but police refuse to confirm those reports. natalee holloway's mother met this week with joran van der sloot, the young man long suspected in her daughter's disappearance in aruba five years ago now. according to their attorneys, the meeting was brief and took place at a prison in peru where

van der sloot is charged with the murder of a peruvian woman. and caught on tape in florida, police say a father screaming at children on a school bus for picking on his daughter who suffers from cerebral palsy. the man was arrested and faces disorderly conduct charges. police say he should have called them instead. anderson, a bad situation all the way around. >> tough situation. i mean, wow. hard to handle. >> we'll talk to you in about 20 more minute minutes for more updates. the home invasion horror in connecticut that left three family members dead. tonight, new insights on the men accused of the killings. it's tonight's crime and punishment report. we've got fascinating information about their background, what led up to this horrific, horrific crime. also, country superstar trace adkins joins us. he talks about a lot of things, politics and sarah palin and whether she can become the next president of the united states. >> no. sorry. i love her to death, but i just don't think that she's -- i don't think she can win. >> a lot more to say in tonight's big "360" interview with trace just ahead.

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republican senator lisa murkowski of alaska is not backing down. just today she announced she'll run for re-election as a write-in candidate. obviously, she lost the republican nomination in alaska's primary to joe miller, a candidate backed by the tea party and sarah palin. when told of murkowski's decision, the leader for the tea party express says the senator doesn't get it. they chose murkowski's opponent. sarah palin's endorsement was in des moines, iowa, tonight rallying conservatives ahead of election day. she spoke at the iowa republican party's ronald reagan dinner. >> if i were in hierarchy of leadership in the gop to rally the troops, you know what i'd say? i'd say, okay, folks. we've got 46 days to go. i'd say demint, you're awesome. we need you down south. mitt, go west. g.w., we need you to raise funds, crystal, alveda, rush go deep, anywhere, everywhere. people are listening.

hannity, levin, beck, michelle, laura, tammy, all y'all, we need everybody working together. i'm going to get in trouble for miss something names so i better stop. and karl. karl, go to -- here. you can come to iowa and karl rove and the other leaders who will see the light and realize that these are the -- this is the normal hardworking patriotic americans who are saying, no, enough is enough. we want to turn this around and we want to get back to those time-tested truths that are right for america. >> that was sarah palin earlier tonight. country superstar trace adkins has a couple of things to say about sarah palin, the tea party and politics. a lot of other things. i spoke with him earlier for the big "360" interview. >> so, trace, what do you make of the success the tea party has had with christine o'donnell beating the gop candidate in delaware? >> what do i make of it. i think there are a lot of

conservatives in this country really frustrated and really teed off. and i don't think it has anything to do with christine o'donnell. i don't know christine o'donnell. i know that mike castle was a moderate and he got held accountable for some of those votes he's made recently. and that's going to be the story, i think, it's going to repeat itself over and over again. and i don't really think it matters which party you belong to. it's a bad year to be an incumbent. people are frustrated. people are angry. they're going to hold -- if you have any ties to washington, d.c., you need to cut them now. >> you said in the past that if there was a viable third party in this country, you'd seriously consider joining it. do you thing tea party movement fills that void? do you think that could become a viable third party? >> not yet. i think it's just -- it is a movement. it's a lot of people who have

finally found a vehicle through which to express some frustrations. but i don't really -- it's leaderless. >> my question about the tea party and what i'm not sure about is, what happens as more -- as they sort of link themselves to more and more candidates and those candidates get in governing positions. it's one thing to be angry about stuff and be critical of it. to actually be in those positions then have to make leadership positions and the kind of compromises people in government make all the time to get things actually done. does that fracture it? does that fracture the movement or are they able to stay unified? are they able to grow and get stronger? and i don't know the answer to that. >> well, you know, i don't think anybody does. but i do believe this, though. i think that compromise is what's costing some of those republicans their jobs. these people don't want compromise. they don't want their conservative leaders to reach across the aisle and work with the other party.

they want them to leer across the aisle and give them the finger. they don't -- that's what -- that's why these people are being voted out. >> yeah. >> sarah palin was the keynote speaker tonight at iowa's republican party, the ronald reagan dinner there. do you expect to see her run for president in 2012? do you think she'll run? >> i hope not. >> why? >> i hope not. i just -- i don't know. i just don't -- she can't win. she's become a punch line. >> you don't think there are enough people beyond the core group of supporters who would vote for her for president? >> no. sorry. i love her to death, but i just don't think that she's -- i don't think she can win. >> i know you've spoken out about the whole mosque situation here in new york. the idea of building it near ground zero. you said it's a slap in the face. donald trump, who you were on "celebrity apprentice" he came up with a solution offering to

buy the site himself. do you think that would have been a -- do you think that's a good idea? have someone come in, buy the site with some sort of deal that they build it somewhere else? >> well, was trump going to build some kind of -- something that -- where they would worship him? is that what he was going to do? >> i'm sure he would slap his name on it. >> knowing him, that's what he wanted to do with it. >> he would definitely slap his name on it. >> that's what you learn -- >> he's always working that angle, man. >> yeah. that's what you learn by seeing him up close. i'm surprised he didn't slap his name on you somewhere. >> he does. he does. >> you have -- >> my album -- my album was number one a few weeks ago and he took credit for it. but that's cool. that's all right. >> did he really? >> yeah.

sure he did. >> trace, it's always good to have you on. trace adkins, thank you very much. >> all right. it was my pleasure. >> really interesting guy. by the way, his new album is called "cowboys back in town." programming note. last week when we were doing a segment on the koran burning, i said some of the victims in the attack on the world trade center were muslim, because many were. i mentions some of those by name. one man in particular gary shamay was not muslim. his family called us and asked us to set the record straight. we learned a bit about gary in the process. he was at the world trade center workings a computer programmer when the planes hit. people close to him say he had an amazing heart and could make friends with almost anybody. his warmth, compassion and eagerness to learn is most missed by his surviving family, his dad, a brother and two half-brothers. to them and to you, we truly regret our error and i'm deeply, deeply sorry. up next, worried about his, quote, criminal demon, those words in a letter from prison written by the -- one of the men accused of an unthinkable crime.

a home invasion in connecticut. the details on this ahead. what we now know about these two alleged killers. plus, what police are demanding from the pastor who called off that koran burning. when "360" continues. i know, change is hard. you never considered making bluetooth, remote keyless entry and turn-by-turn navigation available in every model. so it must be hard for you to hear autoweek.com say our interior raises the small-car bar. if you want to talk about it, call me... that is you know when you get home... since you don't have bluetooth in every model. the all new chevrolet cruze. starting under $17,000. get used to more. ♪

we've been following the trial in connecticut. one of the most disturbing crimes in a long while. two ex-cons accuses of a home invasion that ended with the brutal murder of a connecticut mother and her two daughters. this is the video show chilling. it shows jennifer hawke-petit scared. withdrawing $15,000 from a bank. she told the teller two men were holding her family hostage. one was waiting for her in the car. the bank teller called police. >> we have a lady who is in our bank right now who says that her husband and children are being held at their house. the people are in a car outside the bank. she is getting $15,000 to bring out to them. that if the police are told, they will kill her children and the husband. >> police went to the house. didn't move in, though, for more than 30 minutes. they watched the house. nothing seemed unusual from the outside. we now, of course, know that inside a nightmare was unfolding. mr. petit was beaten with a baseball bat and tied up in the basement.

he survived. his wife was raped and strangled to death. one of his daughters also assaulted and the house lit on fire. both girls apparently died from the smoke. both men are on trial for their lives and face the death penalty. tonight we asked randi kaye to investigate the accused, who they were and how they could have allegedly done such horrific things. here's the crime and punishment report. >> reporter: a hint of violence. a disturbing prediction of what might come. buried in this letter from prison. >> i need someone like you who knows a little about my past to keep me grounded in the future when my criminal demons start to wander. >> reporter: joshua komisarjevsky, now accused of killing jennifer hawke-petit and her two daughters hayley and michaela was worried about his criminal demon. days after the attack, we interviewed this woman who said she was close. this woman asked us not to show her face but shared the letter she says he sent her from prison years before.

>> prison was a hard pill for me to swallow. there isn't a day that goes by that i don't get angry. there isn't a day that goes by that i don't feel the pain of being taken from my daughter. >> reporter: he writes about his dreams of becoming a real estate developer. >> my daughter needs me and i can't accomplish my goals when i'm locked up. >> reporter: now komisarjevsky is back behind bars awaiting trial on charges, including sexual assault and murder. he and his co-defendant, steven hayes, could get the death penalty. they have pleaded not guilty. komisarjevsky's attorneys the the men thad originally confessed hoping to cut a deal for life in prison, but prosecutors didn't bite. police say komisarjevsky followed mrs. hawke-petit and one of her daughters home from the grocery store in july 2007 and chose them as his next victims. if that's true, and these men did kill the three family members, it doesn't fit their m.o. neither suspect has ever been arrest forward murder before. though they are hardly strangers to crime. in fact, between the two of them, they've been arrested

nearly 50 times. on hayes' rap sheet, 27 arrests, including illegal possession of a firearm, burglary and forgery. komisarjevsky's past is just as ugly. 20 arrests for burglary and larceny. police say he sometimes used night vision goggles. both have served time in prison. but it was here at the halfway house in hartford, connecticut, where they first met. they were roommates for four months. if they did do it, though, what might have driven them to sexually assault and strangle jennifer hawke-petit and leave her two beautiful daughters to die in a fire they had set? forensic psychiatrist helen morrison has studied cases like this. >> it appears that both of them were really consumed with rage at the unfairness of their lives, so to speak. >> reporter: hayes, who is 47, lived on and off with his mother. he reportedly started drinking at 11 and dropped out of high school at 16.

newspaper reports say he has two children. he worked as a cook. komisarjevsky's upbringing was far more privileged. he was adopted as an infant. his grandfather was a leading russian theatrical director. and the son of a princess. his grandmother a well-known modern dancer. a family friend told us his parents, born-again christians, had trouble controlling him. his friend told us that just five days before the murders, komisarjevsky was distraught over a breakup. >> he was really, really depressed. >> reporter: she said if he did kill jennifer hawke-petit and her girls, something snapped. >> he put the terror into these poor girls' hearts. he was the person that they spent their last hours in fear for their lives. and he left them to burn. >> reporter: a senseless act, not even a history of crime can explain. randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> it's everyone's nightmare. a home invasion.

we want to examine both the police response and what any of us should do in a similar situation. joining me is wally zines, former new york police department hostage negotiator. you were a hostage negotiate for for some-some years? >> 22 years. >> first of all, the police response. miss petit said at the bank everything was okay. had she said they're going to harm our family, you think the police might have been more -- >> that would have created an exigent circumstance where the police would have been told by their supervisor that we have a crime in progress. we've got to move in now. they are life threatening situations taking place. >> but as it was since they thought everything was okay inside they basically set up a perimeter and watched? >> the name of the game is to set up a perimeter in a sense of cover and containment. once you have that you, wait for the hostage negotiator because you want -- that's the professional. that's the person that's going to get in there and start the dialogue between the hostage taker and the hostage. >> this small town, chesire, connecticut.

we don't know if they had a hostage negotiating team or had to call in one. when you look at that video of her at the bank. she decide the right thing in telling the teller this was going on? >> absolutely. she did everything right. she really did. and the bank, they called 911 and they did say that she wasn't -- there was no harm taking place at the time. but the police, you know, there's a chain of command. as a quasi military factor there that police have to listen to -- >> the captain on scene said don't go in. set up this perimeter. >> right. >> what should -- i mean, you watch this story you can't help but think, what would i do if someone bursts into my house and had my family. what should somebody do? what do you do? >> there are a few things. one, first you have to be patient. you have to also know it's going to take awhile. you have to understand that the first 10 to 30 minutes in a hostage situation is what we call panic reaction. that's where the hostage taker is getting organized. the hostages are getting organized. the police are responding. you have cover and containment. everyone, it's fight or flight.

so that's the toughest time. that's where most injuries or deaths happen. the other thing, if you are taken hostage, let the hostage taker know that you're on medication or you have a medical condition. >> why? >> because they don't want a sick hostage. they don't want a sick hostage is the worst thing in the world. >> in movies if you see their face you think they're going to kill me. should you try not to look at them? >> no. you can look at them, but don't be aggressive. don't talk to them. you treat the hostage taker like royalty. the name of the game is he's in control and he's the boss or she's the boss. and you listen. be observant. be able to look around of what the place looks like. look at the description of the hostage taker. keep in mind, you may have to talk on the telephone to the police. and what you should always do is give yes and no answers to the police. don't go into statements because you don't know if it's multiple people in this situation that one of the hostages next to you could be also a hostage taker that's in there. >> you also say if you have something on your person that

might set them off like a religious object, or a foreign passport, try to get rid of it. >> try to get rid of it. and, remember, if they are going to come in, the police are going to come in and make what we call a dynamic entry, stay low. hit the ground. and if you are thinking of escaping, think twice. >> you don't think you should try to escape? >> absolutely not. >> really? why? >> because, one, it creates a problem. when i say don't escape, i'm talking about if you are in the same room with the hostage taker. as in the tragedy in connecticut, the father was in the basement and no one was there and he was able to get out. >> in his getting out is what first alerted them that there was a problem because the next door neighbor called the police because he heard the husband injured, calling for help. >> correct. correct. but it's -- hostage situations, you know, the name of the game is they change so fast. they can be going great and all of a sudden, in a nanosecond, everything changes. it can change for the better or change for worse. >> it's such a fascinating career. i would love to hear more about your career, maybe another time.

wally zions, i appreciate you being on. >> thank you. >> thank you so much. still ahead, the pastor who threatened to burn korans on the anniversary of 9/11 will pay for his actions literally. plus oprah winfrey, move over. who apparently is the new queen of daytime tv. although, frankly, i think oprah will always be queen. we'll be right back. i have asthma. and when my symptoms came back

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let's get a quick update on the headlines. now another 360 news and business bulletin. bp now says the ruptured well in the gulf of mexico could be completely sealed by saturday. late last night, workers were able to intersect a well with a blownout well. they are now able to pump cement in to permanently plug the leak.

gainesville, florida, plans to fine pastor terry jones for security expenses after he threatened to burn korans on the anniversary of 9/11 attacks. the estimated price tag? more than $180,000. president obama has named harvard law professor elizabeth warren as the person in charge of getting the government's new consumer finance protection bureau going. the office was her idea. she will report to treasury secretary timothy geithner. and, anderson, for the first time since 2000, oprah is not the top-rated show in daytime tv. that honor now belongs to judge judy. this last season, judge judy averaged 6.5 million viewers, beating oprah by 600,000 viewers on average. did you know she is a 67-year-old grandmother with about 11 grandkids? >> yeah. the whole judge show concept, i don't really get very much. to me, oprah is an amazing person. so i don't care that her ratings have dropped a little bit. she is still queen of television

in my book. >> i will say that judge judy is working at 67 and at that age, i hope to be doing pottery or something like that. not exactly working. but that's just me. >> she holds another honor, judge judy does. she is tonight's shot. i don't know if you've seen this online. a new wave of videos starring her has gone viral. the title says it all. half speed judge judy. basically judge judy shows at half speed. it is a whole new way of looking at the program. this is from youtube. slow mo judge judy takes on the case of the broken toilet. >> oh, right. >> all parties in the matter reed versus law. step forward, please. >> suing her former friend for breaking her toilet, when she sat on it. >> toilets break. i had one just break at my apartment last week.

it cost me $650 to put in a new toilet. you could think i went around to try to find the last person who sat on it? don't be stupid. grow up. that's all. half speed, judge judy. >> i love it. >> i had just seen this. i think it is so funny. there is a bunch online. >> i think it's fabulous. judge judy in a whole new light. and that -- >> got us thinking. >> uh-oh. >> oh, yes, it did. it's friday night. we thought what would anderson look like? if we did the same thing to him. see for yourself. >> let's see. >> she has no money in the coffers and more will be pouring in. >> i sound like i'm holding someone hostage and i'm trying to alter my voice. >> you sound like darth vader. >> that is not attractive.

yeah. yeah. that's not -- judge judy is funny. i don't know why i'm not funny at half speed. >> you're funny, anderson. >> you think i am? we just need to work on it. >> are you laughing with me or at me? >> always with you, of course. >> i hear you're going to be off like two weeks. where are you going? >> i am off to lagos, nigeria. for cnn international. i'll be back. don't worry, i'll bring you a present. >> okay. have a great time. >> send me an e-mail. >> have a good time in lagos and we look forward to your return. >> thanks, anderson, see you soon. >> a lot more at the top of the hour. keeping a lawmaker honest about her claims of pregnant women coming here to give birth to future terrorists. we'll explain, ahead. i gonna be great. gothgeckt-shirt... "4 milon drirstched!" gecko water bottle... notebook... chamois... gecko: sir, i feel a little bit uncoorblwith all... you know.. ahis. mean, 's not about me. ould be about how geico's the e gecko: sir, i feel a little bit uncoorblwith all...

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