the texas lawmaker who told us that the threat from so-called terror babies is real and former government agents could back it up. weeks later, no evidence from her but plenty of complaints we blindsided her with questions she was unprepared. blindside, her word. you got the tape so you can judge for yourself. we'll show it to you.

we're keeping them honest. also, raw politics. tea party sensation christine o'donnell is warning her supporters against smears in the media but she could soon be facing questions from the from reporters but federal prosecutors. we'll explain why ahead. later, crime and punishment. the other night, jeffrey toobin called it the most heinous crime he's known. the connecticut home invasion murders that left a mother and her two daughters dead and two men on trial for their lives. tonight, who are the accused? we begin "keeping them honest" with a texas lawmaker who continues to spread fear about so-called terror babies. in case you haven't heard the terror baby theory, it's belief that pregnant middle eastern women are coming here on tourist visas, having babies who under the 14th amendment get automatic citizenship and bringing the babies back to the middle east who can be raised as terrorists and 20 years from now will return to america and attack us. the theory has been put forward by two texas lawmakers who claim they've heard about it from former fbi officials. louis gohmert talked about it. >> they wouldn't even have to pay anything for the baby.

and then they would return back where they could be raised and coddled as future terrorists. and then one day, 20, 30 years down the road, they could be sent in to help destroy our way of life because they figured out how stupid we are being in this country. >> now, he never offered any actual proof. and we had congressman gohmert on this program and repeatedly asked him for proof. he basically just yelled at me and said i was attacking him. >> you're going to cope me honest? you tell the world that you've got an fbi statement. you bring on a retired fbi former supervisor and he says we were not aware of any credible report that this was going on? i brought it to the attention of america for this reason. it was -- i'm a former judge. i know -- >> did you bring it to the attention of the fbi? did you call the fbi? >> i first brought it to my attention on the -- she brought it to my attention on an

airplane, having flown together, and she brought that to my attention. that's why i was talking to the retired fbi agent about it. and so having talked to him, no, i didn't talk to them because the point is -- >> it went on like that. by the way, he's still not offered any proof about what these allegedly these ex-fbi officials told him or any evidence this is actually happening. we called the fbi. they said they know nothing about this. a form high-ranking fbi official who worked throughout the middle east for years came on this from say the whole idea is ridiculous. they don't have trouble recruiting terrorists. he also told us this is in all his time in the middle east, the fbi never got any reports about this. the idea to our attention when we had her booked on our show to talk about illegal immigration and the 14th amendment. i hadn't heard of louie gohmert's claims yet when i interviewed debbie riddle on august 10th. take a look. representative riddle, you told my producer that pregnant women are coming here as tourists, having babies and then going back home "with a nefarious purpose of turning

them into little terrorists who will then come back to the u.s. and do us harm." you said it's part of an organized terrorist element that could cost us lives. where did you hear that? >> that is information that is coming to my office from former fbi officials. >> what former fbi officials, i mean, what evidence is there of some sort of long-term plot to have american -- babies born here and then become -- raised as terrorists overseas and then come back here? >> well, at this point, i don't have the hard evidence right here in front of me, however, this is something that is being talked about by various members of congress. this is being looked into. this is an issue with not only folks coming across our southern border with what is called anchor babies and coming over for the entitlement programs and for that sort of thing, but i think that this is a lot more sinister issue. >> so for days after that

interview, we followed up with riddle's office trying to get some evidence, but they never did back up her statements. now, we assumed debbie riddle would not repeat her unproven claim. so we were surprised to learn that not only is debbie riddle still saying this terror phenomenon is happening, she's now claiming we ambushed her and were unfair to her on television. i really try to be fair to all my guests. we decided to check her latest claims against the facts. here's part of what we said about my interview with her at a forum this week run by "the texas tribune." >> oh, man. does anybody know what getting blindsided means? yeah, the -- when anderson cooper's office called my office and asked if i would come on, it was regarding illegal immigration and women coming across our southern border for the sole intent of giving birth here so that the children would

be little american citizens. >> so that's her first complaint. that we said we were going to ask about one thing and decided to ask about another. now the truth is we did talk in the interview about illegal immigration and so-called anchor babies and tourist babies and women coming here to give birth illegally. in fact, that was part of the second interview -- the second part of the interview and you can check the transcript. i did ask her first about her statement on what we call terror babies because it was completely unproven and the only reason we knew of her belief, we knew about this whole phenomenon, this claim is because what ms. riddle herself told my producer before the program. because, you see, on programs like this, on all tv shows, if possible, before a guest comes on, a producer preinterviews the guest, they do it over the phone and they take notes. these are jack gray's notes from the phone conversation. he types them as she speaks them. while they may not be word for word, they're very accurate. here's what ms. riddle told jack gray. she said, quote, we have -- well, not quote. i can't quote her. we have two problems with babies born to illegal immigrants. we have women who sneak across

the border illegally with the intent to give birth to children here so they can become little american citizens, which is exactly the phrase she used this week on the stage in texas. the other problem she says in her words is tourism babies. we have women from middle eastern countries, she says, even china who come over here, overstay their visas and have their babies here and then take their babies home with the nefarious again, her word nefarious purpose of turning them into little terrorists who then will come back to the u.s. and do us harm. and she concluded by telling jack it's part of an organized terrorist element and could cost us lives. now, ms. riddle seems to have a completely different recollection of her conversation with jack gray. >> and then right at the end of the conversation he said do you know anything about these tourism babies. and i said, well, yeah -- >> terrorism babies? >> no, tourism baby. terror babies was not my term. that was their term. they made up, i guess, before we went on the air. but he said do you know anything about these tourism babies,

women that come over on a tourist visa. and i said yes. i'm familiar with it. i refer to it as vacation babies because they come over sensibly on a vacation. and he said how do you know about it? and i said, well, i've got some friends, retired fbi folks. we've talked about it. and then there's been some things on tv. >> well, she says she said vacation baby, not tourism babies. fair enough. she and jack had been talking about women coming here. some of them on tourist visas specifically to have babies who become american citizens. but it was she who brought up the terror angle. she brought it up out of the blue. i never heard about it. jack gray never heard about it. he didn't mention anything about it to her because he never heard about it. none of us even -- or didn't know that louis gohmert had talked about it before miss riddle goes on. she goes further claiming she's not used to being on tv even though she's been in this office for many years and that we asked her about terror babies and she didn't understand what we were talking about. >> when you are stuck in a room, a -- something about half the

size of this stage, you are sitting there with this background and there's no monitor, no tv. you can't see any body language. there's nothing you can see. all you are looking at is a black box and a thing stuck in your ear. and then all of a sudden, they are coming on with this terror baby thing which i had never heard. it was like what? and to be quite honest, it's a little bit like walking into a boxing ring and getting slammed in the face the first thing. and it takes you a minute to kind of get your footing and get your equilibrium back. >> all right, remember, she's been a politician for years. she was booked on this program to debate with a democratic lawmaker in texas. so she's certainly prepared or should have been prepared for tough questions, and, again, she's the one who first mentioned to us this entire concept of future terrorist children. now i can understand why she's now spinning a story and trying to look like a victim of a bully during the interview she clearly was not expecting to be asked

for proof of the claim that she made. she's probably used to making this claim and no one calling her on it. we did. that's my job. to hold public officials accountable. too often i think we let them get away with stuff that -- saying stuff on tv that the facts don't support and in that interview, she didn't have any facts. >> all of these issues we need to look at because this is a critical, critical issue for all of the american public. >> but you have no actual evidence? >> other than that coming from former fbi folks. >> can you tell us who these former fbi folks are, what evidence they have or what evidence they've shown you? >> at this point i'm not going to reveal that. >> well, she's never revealed that on or off the record to us. never let us speak to any of these people nor have louis gohmert. we soon moved on in that interview to other issues regarding illegal immigration and the 14th amendment. now ms. riddle says she asked a local expert about the terror baby theory, though she doesn't use that term.

>> dr. aticut with st. mary university, he is an expert. he is the only one, the only law professor in the nation that has a facility that they teach -- what is it called -- terror law. that's what he teaches. and i visited with him at length on several occasions and asked him, do you think that i'm just nuts, or is this a possibility? and even dr. aticut says that this is something that he thinks is serious and we need to look into. >> again, the fbi says it's not happening. they have no idea about it. former fbi officials tell us the same thing. we also called dr. aticut. he said he's never heard of any actual evidence of this phenomenon happening. he said it is possible it could happen. given the timeline of 20 or so years to raise a terrorist from birth, it's at the bottom of his list of terror concerns. he also said he wouldn't make fun of someone concerned about it. i think that's a really important point. i'm not making fun of debbie

riddle of louis gohmert. i'm not attacking them. they are both public officials. and i have respect for them and their positions. but my job is to ask people for facts, republican, democrats, it doesn't matter. if a person is spreading fear and falsehood, it's my job to call them on that. if they are calling for legislation based on a rumor or story they've heard and can't back up with facts, that's important for us to know. facts matter. the truth matters. ms. riddle, who seems like a perfectly nice person, can go on all the stages she wants now and play the victim and say i tricked her. but the bottom line is she still has no evidence and she shouldn't pretend that she does. let us know what you think. join the live chat at ac360.com. up next, she rocked the primaries and defeated her republican rival. now delaware's christine o'donnell faces her conservative fans. but also some new questions about campaign finances. we'll talk to one woman whose group wants a criminal investigation. later, country superstar trace adkins on what he thinks conservative voters want. >> these people don't want compromise. they don't want their conservative leaders to reach across the aisle and work with the other party.

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in just a few days, delaware's republican senatorial nominee has gone from virilely unknown to sarah palin-style political celebrity. she spoke this afternoon to the values voters summit in washington. >> will they attack us? yes. will they smear our backgrounds and distort our records? undoubtedly. will they lie about us, harass our families, name call and try to intimidate us? they will. there's nothing safe about it.

but is it worth it? >> all: yes. >> well, let me ask you. is freedom worth it? >> all: yes. >> is america worth it? >> all: yes. >> are those unalienable rights worth a little alienation from the beltway popular crowd? >> all: yes. >> i say yes, yes, a thousand times yes. >> she's talking about smears and distortions and certainly a lot of liberals in the media are going after her making fun of her, attacking her. all we care about though are facts. there's nothing partisan about it. we've done a lot of segments on allegations against democrats, charlie rangel, eddie bernice johnson and other republicans as well. with that said, we learned a nonpartisan group, the citizens for responsibility and ethics in washington are calling for the u.s. attorney in delaware to launch a criminal investigation into miss o'donnell's finances. i want to bring in melanie sloan, the group's executive director. so why are you calling for a criminal investigation?

>> we went through ms. o'donnell's campaign finance records and talking to one of her former campaign aides, someone you had on last night, david keegan, and it turns out miss o'donnell has treated her campaign funds like they are her very own personal piggy bank. she's used that money to pay things like her rent, for gas, meals and even a bowling outing. and that's just flat out illegal. >> but, i mean, we had the checks on the program last night. and it's a couple hundred dollars here. a couple hundred dollars there. does it really amount to much of anything? >> well, by our count, it amounts to well over $20,000 in 2009 and 2010, and and that's just the funds that we can look at and look at as clearly illegal. the fact is the federal election commission needs to do an audit to find out all of the expenses that ms. o'donnell has claimed as campaign related because it may well be that most of them aren't. for example, in 2009, ms. o'donnell wasn't a candidate for anything yet she had numerous campaign expenses, things like travel and gas and yet she had no actual campaign. >> we called, obviously, her spokesperson for comment. we didn't get a response back

from them. we haven't heard back from them yet. obviously, we still continue to welcome that. what is the likelihood -- i mean what happens -- you've called for an investigation. what does that actually mean? what is the next step? and how long, if the u.s. attorney decided to do this, how long would something like that take? >> well, it's hard to say. we're going to be sending him a letter on monday, and we're filing a complaint there and with the federal election commission. we're saying that ms. o'donnell committed the crime of conversion by abusing her campaign funds for personal use. she made false statements on the forms she filed with the federal election commission when she lied about some of her campaign expenditures and then she likely committed tax evasion by failing to declare the income from the campaign funds as personal income since she used it for personal expenses. so the u.s. attorney should start investigating. the fec should investigate. but this could take many months, and it won't be resolved before ms. o'donnell faces the voters in november. >> and to those of her supporters who no doubt will say this is just a smear.

this is just, you know, a liberal group from washington trying to, you know, tarnish her because she's now, you know, in the running. >> well, the track record is clear. we're nonpartisan. we were on your show in the past couple of weeks talking about eddie bernice johnson's problems just for example and we've certainly been out in front on charlie rangel and maxine waters. >> you actually called for charlie rangel to step down? >> yes. we've called for him to resign. we're about right and wrong and not about black or white, republican or democrat. and it is flat out wrong for a candidate for the u.s. senate to be stealing her campaign funds and using them for personal use. and you don't have to just take our word for it. you have her former campaign aide who is the one that brought this to our attention and supplied an affidavit for us talking about, for example, the times in 2009 when she used campaign funds to pay her rent to this campaign aide's nephew who bought her house in 2008 when it was about to be foreclosed upon. >> even if the u.s. attorney in delaware, though, believes this -- there's cause here for

an investigation, that's a tough call for them to be investigating somebody. i mean it looks political no matter how you slice it. >> well, david weis, the u.s. attorney for delaware, was in the u.s. attorney's office during the bush administration. so he's not, by any stretch of the imagination, an obama appointee. and whether or not it looks political, it is up to the department of justice to keep our elected officials honest, to keep our candidates honest, and this goes to the very heart of our democracy. everybody has to follow the same rules, ms. o'donnell included. >> melanie sloan, it's a fascinating time we're living in. we'll continue to follow it. thanks for being on. appreciate it. >> thanks. up next, rescuers striking pay dirt in a race to give miners in chile a safe way out of their hole in the ground. we've got some welcome progress reports to bring to you from the front line of this thing. and later "crime and punishment." the mom panicked withdrawing 15,000 from a bank to pay the men holding her family hostage. this is the last time we saw the woman alive. we reported on this story last night. new details tonight. a closer look at the alleged

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good news to report on the trapped miners. the rescuers in chile who have been desperately trying to free the 33 men who have been trapped underground for a month and a half made some real progress today. a borehole dug by one of the emergency drills actually reached the miners. unfortunately, rescuers are still a long way from bringing them to the surface because the hole actual ly needs to be widened to bring them up and that is not easy. karl penhaul is in chile with this "360" dispatch. >> reporter: i want to explain

why this is significant but of course why we can't shout victory just yet. the plan "b" drill, and you remember that three drills are in place now trying to reach the miners from different angles. now the plan "b" drill started drilling at two weeks ago. it already had an 8-centimeter borehole to go down. that's what an 8-centimeter borehole looks like. and the plan "b" drill was using that as a pilot hole. and that hole has now been widened. it's been widened to around 26, 28 centimeters. that is what 26, 28 centimeters looks like. and, of course, not yet wide enough to pull a man up through. and so the challenge now in the coming days and weeks is to widen that hole to something that looks more like this. a hole that is around 66 to 70 centimeters wide. they'll then put a cage in that and then the miners will be pulled up in that cage. now you'll appreciate that even

at that width, it is a bit of a squeeze, but nevertheless, the rescuers believe that all the miners will be able to fit in that kind of hole. >> amazing. we're going to continue to follow that. we're also following other important stories tonight. isha sesay joins us. >> the parents of a washington woman are as baffled as everyone. they say they don't know why their daughter threw bethany storro acid on her own face and then claimed that someone attacked her. the parents apologized for their daughter and said she'll get counseling. london police arrested six people today on suspicion of terrorism. local news reports said the arrests were linked to a potential threat against pope benedict xvi who is in london on a state visit. but police refuse to confirm those reports. natalee holloway's mother met this week with joran van der sloot, the young man long suspected in her daughter's disappearance in aruba five years ago now. according to their attorneys, the meeting was brief and took

place at a prison in peru where van der sloot is charged with the murder of a peruvian woman. and caught on tape in florida, police say a father screaming at children on a school bus for picking on his daughter who suffers from cerebral palsy. the man was arrested and faces disorderly conduct charges. police say he should have called them instead. anderson, a bad situation all the way around. >> yeah, a tough situation. i mean, wow. hard to handle. we'll talk to you in about 20 more minute minutes for more updates. still up ahead, the home invasion horror in connecticut that left three family members dead. tonight, new insights on the men accused of the killings. it's tonight's "crime and punishment" report. we've got fascinating information about their background, what led up to this horrific, horrific crime. also tonight, country superstar trace adkins joins us. he talks about a lot of things, politics and sarah palin and whether she can become the next president of the united states. >> no. sorry. i love her to death, but i just don't think that she's -- i don't think she can win. >> a lot more to say in tonight's big "360" interview

with trace just ahead. sure i'd like to diversify my workforce, i just wish that all of the important information was gathered together in one place. [ printer whirs ] done. ♪

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schools, organizations and businesses. ♪ working to set opportunity in motion. bank of america. republican senator lisa murkowski of alaska is not backing down. just today she announced she'll run for re-election in november as a write-in candidate. obviously, you know, she lost the republican nomination in alaska's primary to joe miller, a candidate backed by the tea party and sarah palin. when told of murkowski's decision, the leader for the tea party express says the senator doesn't get it. the voters were given a choice

and chose murkowski's opponent. sarah palin's endorsement was in des moines, iowa, tonight rallying conservatives ahead of election day. she spoke at the iowa republican party's ronald reagan dinner. >> if i were in the hierarchy of leadership in the gop to rally the troops, you know what i'd say? i'd say, okay, folks. we've got 46 days to go. i'd say demint, you're awesome. we need you down south. mitt, go west. g.w., we need you to raise funds. crystal, you need to go east. alveda, rush, go deep, anywhere, everywhere. people are listening. hannity, levin, beck, michelle, laura, tammy, all y'all, we need everybody working together. i'm going to get in trouble for missing some names so i better stop, but -- and carl. carl, here, you can come to iowa and karl rove and the other leaders who will see the light and realize that these

are the -- this is the normal hardworking patriotic americans who are saying, no, enough is enough. we want to turn this around and we want to get back to those time-tested truths that are right for america. >> that was sarah palin earlier tonight. country superstar trace adkins has a couple of things to say about sarah palin, the tea party and politics. and a lot of other things. i spoke with him earlier for the big "360" interview. so, trace, what do you make of the success the tea party has had in the primaries this week with christine o'donnell beating the gop candidate in delaware? >> what do i make of it? i think there are a lot of conservatives in this country that are really frustrated and they're really teed off. and i don't think it has anything to do with christine o'donnell. i don't know christine o'donnell. but i know that mike castle was a moderate, and he got held accountable for some of those votes that he's made recently. and that's going to be the story, i think. it's going to repeat itself over and over again. and i don't really think it matters which party you belong to.

it's a bad year to be an incumbent. people are frustrated. people are angry. and they're going to hold -- if you have any ties to washington, d.c., you need to cut them now. >> you said in the past that if there was a viable third party in this country, you'd seriously consider joining it. i mean do you think the tea party movement fills that void? do you think that could become a viable third party? >> not yet. i think it's just -- it is a movement. and it's a lot of people that have finally found a vehicle through which to express some frustrations. but i don't really -- it's leaderless. >> my question about the tea party and what i'm not sure about is, what happens as more -- as they sort of link themselves to more and more candidates and those candidates get in governing positions. you know, it's one thing to be angry about stuff and be critical of it. to actually be in those positions then have to make sort of leader shship positions and the kind of

compromises people in government make all the time to get things actually done. does that fracture it? does that fracture the movement or are they able to stay unified? are they able to continue growing and get stronger, and i don't know the answer to that. >> well, you know, i don't think anybody does. but i do believe this, though. i think that compromise is what's costing some of those republicans their jobs. these people don't want compromise. they don't want their conservative leaders to reach across the aisle and work with the other party. they want them to leer across the aisle and give them the finger. they don't -- that's what -- that's why these people are being voted out. >> yeah. you know, sarah palin was the keynote speaker tonight at iowa's republican party, the ronald reagan dinner there. do you expect to see her run for president in 2012? do you think she'll run? >> i hope not. >> why? >> i hope not. i just -- i don't know. i just don't -- she can't win.

she's become a punch line. >> you don't think there are enough people beyond the core group of supporters who would vote for her for president? >> no. sorry. i love her to death, but i just don't think that she's -- i don't think she can win. >> you know, i know you've spoken out about the whole mosque situation here in new york, the idea of building it near ground zero. you said it's a slap in the face. donald trump, who you were on "celebrity apprentice," he came up with a solution basically offering to buy the site himself. do you think that would have been a -- do you think that's a good idea? have someone come in, buy the site with some sort of deal that they build it somewhere else? >> well, was trump going to build some kind of -- something that -- where they would worship him? is that what he was going to do? >> i'm sure he would slap his name on it.

>> knowing him, that's what he wanted to do with it. >> he would definitely slap his name on it. >> yeah. >> that's what you learn -- >> he's always working that angle, man. >> yeah. that's what you learn by seeing him up close. i'm surprised he didn't slap his name on you somewhere. >> he does. he does. >> you have -- >> i had a number one -- my album -- my album was number one a few weeks ago, and he took credit for it. but that's cool. that's all right. >> did he really? >> yeah. sure, he did. >> trace, it's always good to have you on. trace adkins, thank you very much. >> all right. it was my pleasure. >> really interesting guy. by the way, his new album is called "cowboys back in town." programming note. last week when we were doing a segment on the florida koran burning controversy, i said some of the victims in the attack on the world trade center were muslim, because many were. i mentioned some of those victims by name. it turns out one man in particular gary

shamay was not muslim. his family called us and asked us to set the record straight. so we are. we learned a bit about gary in the process. he was at the world trade center working as a computer programmer when the planes hit. people close to him say he had an amazing heart and could make friends with almost anybody. his warmth, compassion and eagerness to learn is most missed by his surviving family, his dad, a brother and two half-brothers. to them and to you, we truly regret our error and i'm deeply, deeply sorry. up next, worried about his, quote, criminal demon, those words in a letter from prison written by the -- one of the men accused of an unthinkable crime. a home invasion in connecticut. the details on this ahead. what we now know about these two alleged killers. plus, what police are demanding from the pastor who called off that koran burning. when "360" continues. ot just a warran.guar plate

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we've been following the trial in connecticut of one of the most disturbing crimes in a long while. two ex-cons accused of a home invasion that ended with the brutal murder of a connecticut mother and her two daughters. this is the video that is so chilling. it shows jennifer hawke-petit scared withdrawing $15,000 from a bank. she told the teller two men were holding her family hostage. one was waiting for her in the car. the bank teller called police. >> we have a lady who is in our bank right now who says that her husband and children are being held at their house. the people are in a car outside the bank.

she is getting $15,000 to bring out to them. that if the police are told, they will kill her children and the husband. >> well, police went to the house. didn't move in though for more than 30 minutes. they watched the house. nothing seemed unusual from the outside. we now, of course, know that inside a nightmare was unfolding. mr. petit was beaten with a baseball bat and tied up in the basement. he survived. his wife was raped and strangled to death. one of his daughters was also assaulted and the house was lit on fire. both girls apparently died from the smoke. both men are on trial for their lives and face the death penalty. tonight we asked randi kaye to investigate the accused, who they were and how they allegedly could have done such horrific things. here's the "crime and punishment" report. >> reporter: a hint of violence. a disturbing prediction of what might come. buried in this letter from prison. >> i need someone like you who knows a little about my past to keep me grounded in the future when my criminal demon starts to wander. >> reporter: joshua komisarjevsky, now accused of killing jennifer hawke-petit and

her two daughters, hayley and michaela, was worried about his criminal demon. days after the attack, we interviewed this woman who told us she was a close friend. she asked us not to show her face but shared the letter she says he sent her from prison years before. >> prison was a hard pill for me to swallow. there isn't a day that goes by that i don't get angry. there isn't a day that goes by that i don't feel the pain of being taken from my daughter. >> reporter: he writes about his dreams of becoming a real estate developer. >> my daughter needs me and i can't accomplish my goals when i'm locked up. >> reporter: but now komisarjevsky is back behind bars awaiting trial on charges including sexual assault and murder. he and his co-defendant, steven hayes, could get the death penalty. they've pleaded not guilty. komisarjevsky's attorney says the men had originally confessed hoping to cut a deal for life in prison, but prosecutors didn't bite. police say komisarjevsky followed mrs. hawke-petit and one of her daughters home from the grocery store in july 2007

and chose them as his next victims. if that's true, and these men did kill the three family members, it doesn't fit their m.o. neither suspect has ever been arrested for murder before, though they are hardly strangers to crime. in fact, between the two of them, they've been arrested nearly 50 times. on hayes' rap sheet, 27 arrests, including illegal possession of a firearm, burglary and forgery. komisarjevsky's past is just as ugly. 20 arrests for burglary and larceny. police say he sometimes used night vision goggles. both have served time in prison. but it was here at the sillaman half wway house in hartford, connecticut, where they first met. they were roommates for four months. if they did do it, though, what might have driven them to sexually assault and strangle jennifer hawke-petit and leave her two beautiful daughters to die in a fire they had set? forensic psychiatrist helen morrison has studied cases like this.

>> and it appears that both of them were really consumed with rage at the unfairness of their lives, so to speak. >> reporter: hayes, who is 47, lived on and off with his mother. he reportedly started drinking at 11 and dropped out of high school at 16. newspaper reports say he has two children. he worked as a cook. komisarjevsky's upbringing was far more privileged. he was adopted as an infant. his grandfather was a leading russian theatrical director and the son of a princess. his grandmother, a well-known modern dancer. a family friend told us his parents, born-again christians, had trouble controlling him. his friend told us that just five days before the murders, komisarjevsky was distraught over a breakup. >> he was really, really depressed. >> reporter: she said if he did kill jennifer hawke-petit and her girls, something snapped. >> he put the terror into these poor girls' hearts. he was the person that they

spent their last hours in fear for their lives. and he left them to burn. >> reporter: a senseless act, not even a history of crime can explain. randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> well, it's everyone's nightmare, of course, a home invasion. we want to examine both the police response and what any of us should do in a similar situation. joining me now is wally zines, a former new york police department hostage negotiator. you were a hostage negotiator for what, 20-some years? >> 22 years. >> first of all, the police response. miss petit said at the bank everything was okay. had she said they're going to harm our family, you think the police might have been more -- >> yes, that would have created an exigent circumstance where the police would have been told by their supervise their we have a crime in progress, we've got to move in now. there are life-threatening situations taking place. >> but as it was since they thought everything was okay inside, they basically set up a perimeter and watched? >> the name of the game is to

set up a perimeter in a sense of cover and containment. once you have that, you wait for the hostage negotiator because you want -- that's the professional. that's the person that's going to get in there and start the dialogue between the hostage taker and the hostage. >> and we don't know if this, this small town, chesh shire, connectic connecticut. we don't know if they had a hostage negotiating team or had to call in one. when you look at that video of her at the bank, she did the right thing in telling the teller this was going on? >> absolutely. she did everything right. she really did. and the bank, they called 911 and they did say that she wasn't -- there was no harm taking place at the time. but the police, you know, there's a chain of command. there's a quasi-military factor there that police have to listen to -- >> the captain on scene said don't go in. set up this perimeter. >> right. >> what should -- i mean, you watch this story you can't help but think, what would i do if someone bursts into my house and had my family. what should somebody do? what do you do? >> there are a few things. one, first you have to be patient. you have to also know it's going

to take awhile. you have to understand that the first 10 to 30 minutes in a hostage situation is what we call panic reaction. that's where the hostage-taker is getting organized. the hostages are getting organized. the police are responding. you have cover and containment. everyone, it's fight or flight. so that's the toughest time. that's where most injuries or deaths happen. the other thing, if you are taken hostage, let the hostage taker know that you're on medication or you have a medical condition. >> why? >> because they don't want a sick hostage. they don't want a sick hostage it's the worst thing in the world. >> i mean, you know, if movies if you see their face, you think they're going to kill me. should you try not to look at them? >> no. you can look at them, but don't be aggressive. don't talk to them. you treat the hostage-taker like royalty. the name of the game is he's in control, and he's the boss or she's the boss. and you listen. be observant. be able to look around of what the place looks like. look at the description of the hostage-taker. keep in mind, you may have to talk on the telephone to the police.

and what you should always do is give yes and no answers to the police. don't go into statements because you don't know if it's multiple people in this situation that one of the hostages next to you could be also a hostage-taker that's in there. >> you also say if you have something on your person that might set them off like a religious object or a foreign passport, try to get rid of it. >> try to get rid of it. and, remember, if they are going to come in, the police are going to come in and make what we call a dynamic entry, stay low. hit the ground. if you're thinking of escaping, think twice. >> you don't think you should try to escape? >> absolutely not. >> really? why? >> well, because, one, it creates a problem. when i say don't escape, i'm talking about if you are in the same room with the hostage-taker. you are know, in the tragedy in connecticut, the father was in the basement, and no one was there. >> and he was able to get out. >> he was able to get out. >> in his getting out is what first alerted them that there was a problem because the next-door neighbor called the

police because he heard the husband injured calming for help. >> correct. correct. but it's -- hostage situations, you know, the name of the game is they change so fast. they can be going great and all of a sudden in a nanosecond, everything changes. it can change for the better or it can change for the worse. >> it's such a fascinating career. i would love to hear more about your career, maybe another time. wally zions, i appreciate you being on. >> thank you. >> thank you so much. still ahead, the pastor who threatened to burn korans on the anniversary of 9/11 will pay for his actions literally. we'll explain that ahead. plus, oprah winfrey, move over. we'll tell you who apparently is the new queen of daytime tv although, frankly, i think oprah will always be queen. we'll be right back. mers... mers... full-time moms... and everyone who is good at something but wants to be great. welcome to kaplan university. the university that's changing the face of education... to undergraduate degrees, graduate degrees... degrees that can give you a leg up... in a tough job market... in any job market... welcome. welcome to kaplan university. call kaplan university now

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all right. let's get a quick update on some of the headlines. we have another "360" news and business bulletin. >> and bp now says the ruptured well in the gulf of mexico could be completely sealed by saturday. late last night, workers were able to intersect a relief well with a blown out well. with pressure no longer an issue, they're now able to pump cement in to permanently plug the leak. and they plan to fine pastor terry jones for security expenses after his threat to burn korans on the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. the estimated price tag? more than $180,000. president obama has named harvard law professor elizabeth warren as the person in charge of getting the government's new consumer finance protection

bureau going. the office was her idea. she will report to treasury secretary timothy geithner. and, anderson, for the first time since 2000, oprah is not the top rated show in daytime tv. that honor now belongs to judge judy. this last season, judge judy averaged 6.5 million viewers, beating oprah by 600,000 viewers on average. did you know she is a 67-year-old grandmother with about 11 grandkids? >> yeah. the whole judge show concept i don't really get very much. and to me, i mean, oprah is an amazing, amazing person, so i don't care that her ratings have dropped a little bit. she is still queen of television in my book. >> what i will say is that judge judy is working at 67 and at that age i hope to be doing pottery or something. but that's just me. >> well, she holds another honor, judge judy does. she is tonight's shot. i don't know if you've seen this stuff online. a new wave of videos starring her has gone viral. the title says it all. it's called half speed judge judy.

it's basically judge judy shows at half speed, and it's a whole new hip way of looking at the program. this is from youtube. judge judy takes on the case of the broken toilet. >> oh, right. >> all parties in the matter reed versus law, step forward, please. >> suing her former friend for breaking her toilet when she sat on it. >> toilets break. i had one just break at my apartment last week. it cost me $650 to put in a new toilet. you could think i went around to try to find the last person who sat on it? don't be stupid. grow up. that's all. half speed, judge judy. i just seen this.

i think it's so funny. there's a bunch of them online. >> i think it's fabulous. judge judy in a whole new light. and that -- >> got us thinking. >> uh-oh. >> oh, yes, it did. it's friday night. and we thought what would anderson look like if we did the same thing to him. see for yourself. >> let's see. >> she had a lot of money in the coffers and more is going to be pouring in. more to ari's point -- >> i sound like i'm holding someone hostage and i'm trying to alter my voice. >> you sound like darth vader. >> that's not attractive. yeah. yeah. that's not a good -- i like -- judge judy is funny. i don't know why i'm not funny at half speed. >> you're funny, anderson. we just need to work on it. >> are you laughing with me or at me? >> always with you, of course. >> i hear you're going to be off for like two weeks, isha. where are you going? >> i am off to lagos, nigeria, for cnn international. but i'll be back.