this is his last season for dugout beauty for dodger blue. the 70-year-old skipper say he's stepping aside for his batting coach don mattingly who will succeed him next system. torre isn't ruling out retirement completely. some media are reporting the brooklyn manager could be talked into the mets. hard to believe he was manager for the yankees. i'll be back in an hour from now at 2:00 eastern time. if you're looking for a job, scammers may be looking for you. we'll tell you how to avoid getting burned. in the 3:00 p.m. hour, live in london with the pope. we'll get a reaction to his apology for the church sex abuse scandal. bacterial meningitis can kill with almost no warning. we'll talk with survivors and get some simple tips for prevention. i'm fredricka, "your $$$$$"

starts now. the bush tax cuts, should they stay or should they go. welcome to "your $$$$$," i'm tom foreman, ali velshi returns next week. the crush question for your money and politicians gearing up for elections. political correspondent and anchor of excellent state of the union. let's talk about the battle lines, where are they being drawn right now as we look towards midterms. >> $250,000 battle line, what we're talking about. those that make above it, at least a household that makes above it and those that make below it. that's where it is. really what this is a battle over is who is more for the middle class. i think that's why you saw john boehner saying if i got a bill that was only for middle class tax cuts of course i would go ahead and vote for it, sort of giving up the store a lot of his fellow republicans fell. it's really about running up to

an election who is the most for the middle class. that's where the rhetorical battle is. >> looked like a fracture earlier in the week on the republican side because of what boehner said. then within 48 hours, a fracture on the democratic side. >> yes. first of all you have i think more than 30 democrats writing and going, listen, everybody's tax cuts ought to be extended in january, not just those making $250,000 and lower. then you had speaker nancy pelosi coming out and saying there's no justification for having tax cuts remain for the wealthier americans. saying in the same news conference, the only thing i can tell you for sure is middle class tax cuts will be extended. this sort of opened the door for republicans that said this means she's trying to have it both ways. i think what we saw there was nancy pelosi on policy. she doesn't think it's a good idea and nancy pelosi on politics. it may be they have to do all of it. >> assistant editor of bloomberg

business week. this is a complicated issue, jim. let's try to simplify it. what does the economy need more right now, increased tax revenue to tackle this soaring debt or an extension of the tax cut so people don't lose spending? >> the problem is we can't afford to have this tax cut done forever. what we need to do is find some way to spark short-term demand on the part of consumers. part of our economy is dependent on consumer demand. we have to do something, think pout a way to extend the tax cuts but use it as a stimulus measure. have it for a short enough period, two to three to four years so we actually can get money back pumping into the economy but not have it where it's a noose around our next for 10, 15, 20 years. we know this will cost $2.2 trillion if we keep it. we can't afford it with deficits running over $2 trillion a year. >> jim, i want to get back to that. sounds like you're talking about threading the needle. mark preston, cnn senior

political editor. 31 congressional democrats as cannedy mentioned have broken from president obama and joined republicans urging extension of the bush tax cuts for everyone including the wealthiest americans. so is this a sign that the president's sagging poll numbers on the economy have made him a liability for all the people heading into the midterms. or as jim suggests, is this about the economic reaction. >> he's a liability 31 democrats and perhaps more. look, president obama is still very well liked by americans when you ask them in opinion polls but in certain parts of the country he doesn't play very well politically. look, this happens all the time. president clinton didn't play well in certain parts of the country, president bush didn't play well in certain parts of the country. certainly towards the south, maybe a little bit in the midwest, some of these democrats have got to cut president obama loose. i think that's when we're seeing. >> let me get back to you on the

practicality of this thing. it seems to me the problem is you may have a political reality and economic reality that simply can't exist in the same room with each other. >> long-term, we cannot afford to talk about cutting taxes. we shouldn't do it. unfortunately the economy needs something to jump-start it right now. one way to jump-start is stimulus, which we've already tried. another way is to, some economists believe, cut taxes. the problem is if you can't afford to cut taxes long-term you have to cobble together something where a tax cut is a stimulus measure. that, in a way, is not a bad idea, because rather than guys in washington deciding where that stimulus ought to go, what bridge to nowhere ought to be funded, this allows taxpayers i'll spend it in my local area, figure out how to spend it. as long as you do it in a way that doesn't go to the top end which will save it rather than spend it is probably workable.

you said hold your nose and do it. >> candy, everybody talks, talks, talks about the need for small business to do just that at the local level. there appears to be help in the form of $42 billion bill designed to give credit to smaller companies to spur hiring. now, will this do much to repair the president's relationship with the business community, which is rather sour? >> i think any time you can say we passed tax cuts for businesses, that's going to be a plus for any president, this president who has had problems with particularly corporate business seeing him as anti-big business. you know, so yes, but not in time for this election. maybe not in time for the next election. what basically people are complaining about in the business community, be it small business or big business is the uncertainty factor. they all said, yes, we need more credit, easier access to credit, we need some tax cuts they

almost across the board all of them will say we don't understand what regulation is going to cost us, we don't know where taxes are going in the long-term. that's what is holding them back. it's a little hard in this economy to get rid of the uncertainty principle which is making businesses skittish about hiring. >> ceo told poppy harlow the stimulus did not work and washington may do more harm than good when it comes to getting businesses to spend money we're talking about. >> take uncertainty out. businesses can't invest until they have fewer variables. right now there's too many variables. i don't know what health care costs are going to be, r&d credits, 10 other things. if i at least know what the decisions are, i can make my decision. in the area of uncertainty you can't. >> jim, some businesses are hording cash out there. what will get them to start

hiring in this environment? >> one thing he said is some consistency in policy over things like taxes and regulation that is care about. there's a lot of uncertainty where climate was headed, bow how aggressively other types of ecoregulations are going to go. once that settles down people can make longer term investments. the other thing is a lot of people can't invest until demand picks up, that is the chicken and egg kind of thing. how do you do that. you're not going to invest, hire, until you have higher demand but people aren't going to spend and make that demand until they have jobs. we don't quite know how to jump-start that. that's why we turn to stimulus. >> jim and candy stay put. mark, in particular, i know you have thoughts on the saying, trust is earned not given. we'll get to that. why a growing number of americans don't trust their government and how that's holding us back. next.

you hear what they're up to now? some in congress are getting squeezed by the special interests again. trying to delay action and give polluters free reign to keep dumping toxic pollution into the air. the air our children breathe. letting big oil lobbyists get their way again, and again, and again. it's a last-minute bill, written by special interests, looking for a payback. washington politicians need to get off the dime, and not let corporate polluters off the hook.

so do you trust your government to do the right thing? for most of you out there the answer is a resounding vote of no confidence. over the last decade the number of americans who trust the government has dropped almost in half, 42% in 2000 to 25% today.

a number of americans are out of work, out of money. they have not gotten the lift they have been hoping for from washington. so how much do you think that has to do with rising mistrust now or something else. >> everything to do with rising mistrust. when president obama came to office with so much hope, that was his whole mantra, i'm going to give you hope and clean up washington. guess what, washington is not cleaned up. it's a hard swamp to drain. there hasn't been much hope. unemployment has risen, people have lost homes. as much as president obama came in and has done a lot of things he said he would do, what he hasn't done is pretty americans back to work. >> let's talk about elizabeth warren, a wash a dog a lot of people wanted to head the bureau, particularly a lot of progressives. she will help set up this new agency but is she going to get to run anything here? >> she'll get to set it up.

she'll get to start on the groundwork for regulations they will be putting in place to regulate issues of credit cards and certain types of bank debt and mortgages. she'll have a very important role. the issue is a lot of people don't like her because she's been so outspoken particularly about the tricks banks have used to get people into bad loans. people in business don't like regulation. they particularly don't like regulator who have strong opinions they don't agree with. therefore they are going to fight. they have already sort of taken away the cloud of this agency at the beginning of the year and now going in for the kill to make sure the person who is the grandfather or grandmother of this idea doesn't get to be there in a job they really can't influence much. >> mark, let me jump back to you briefly on this. one of the bake questions that came to mind when i saw this happening was the obama administration saying never again will people be cheated or fooled by the fine print in all

these comments. i thought about my cable company and phone company and every other company i have a contract with, and i thought no way. it can't be cleaned up. do you think there's any faith it can be? >> faith will be restored when unemployment drops down to 5%. faith will be restored when people aren't getting eviction notices from the local sheriff. faith will be restored when the economy turns around. i think we should note president obama was handed a very terrible hand when he came into office. really, politically his biggest mistake and certainly the biggest mistake of his administration was the hubris that came in with. frankly, you can't turn it around that quickly. >> i want your thoughts on it. could the president benefit if democrats suffered big losses in november simply because it's no longer just his economic problem for the next couple of years. if you have near 10%

unemployment, he could say, it's not just me. republicans are on board, too. >> sure. the president basically at this point, if you look at 2012, he's shadowboxing. there's nothing to fight against. he's got a democratic congress, democratic house, democratic senate, he runs the white house. if you put in -- bill clinton proved this, when a republican congress came in. if you have a group to fight against, that certainly is helpful because it gives people a choice of governing in washington. right now the democrats are running things. the other thing that does, it gives the president a chance to move to the middle. a lot of people are looking at independents always when we go into any election year, midterm or presidential, it gives the president a chance to moderate. in order to win the famous triangulate, it gives president obama a chance to work with republicans if they were in charge and to come out with

compromise legislation that he could say, it worked with republicans and we came up with this. one of the things people complain about so far in the first two years of the obama administration is he didn't change the tone. this would force him to do something in the end would look good. >> give him political cover to do that. mark, let me ask you, if you were in the white house right now and somebody said what's the game chunging move to get voters on our side of the handling of this economy, obviously you can't do it by midterms, it's too late, what would you do? >> i wish i had the answer for you. i don't know what answer is. the administration again was delta bad hand. a lot of people say if they didn't go forward with the stimulus, we would have been in a total calamity right now rather than being in a bad recession we're in. we're in a roller coaster ride and happen to be in a low

moment. democrats looked back to the old idea of giving them shovels and getting them back to work. a lot of the stimulus money hasn't been used yet. maybe increase using it. >> does it make a difference to normal voters out there? >> i don't think so. normal voters care about do i have a job, does unemployment go up or down, more importantly does my one piece of wealth go up, my home. >> i think you're absolutely right. the white house and people in d.c. think it makes a difference, normal people, mark, you're right on the money, if it doesn't change your circumstance, nothing happens. jim, candy, mark, thanks for being here. what if i told you one in five children live in poverty. sounds like something from a third world country but it's not. it's what's happening in this country right now. think beauty that. we're going to talk about it next.

words alone aren't enough. our job is to listen and find ways to help workers who lost their jobs to the spill. i'm iris cross. we'll keep restoring the jobs, tourist beaches, and businesses impacted by the spill. we've paid over $400 million in claims and set up a $20 billion independently-run claims fund. i was born in new orleans. my family still lives here. i'm gonna be here until we make this right.

more americans are living in poverty than any other time in

the 51 years we've been keeping track. steven moore editorial writer, al sparks, comedian, and carmen, personal finance expert and author all join us now. more than 43.5 million americans are impoverished according to a census bureau report of 2009. the poverty report jumps. there was a steep drop in 2000. released a statement saying how difficult 2009 was. stephen, why are so many poor in this country? >> we just had a terrible recession we're still in. any time the economy takes a nosedive like we've seen in the last couple years, that's going to cause a plunge in people's incomes. unfortunately, tom, the people that get hurt most in recessions are lower ends of the income

scale. rich person sees a drop in the income, it means instead of buy a porsche, they buy a bmw. for a poor person, it's hard to pay the bills. when we get into a recovery, we'll start to see poverty rate reduce and incomes rise, not just for rich but everyone. >> short answer here, does this have any affect on the fact savings dropped so low there was no pad. >> for the first time in 15 years savings rates are starting to come up. people learned the lesson. >> i'm not sure the white house is thrilled when they want spending now. >> understand the thing with the savings rate is we have folks that have been out of work for over a year. before this recession we were telling folks to have three to six months worth of savings, if you were still out of work you

could tap your home equity. that safety net is gone, too. >> when you think about all of this, is the american dream, as we thought about it, even exist for impoverished americans without improvements in the economy and labor market? is there any way they are doing to come up out of this? >> no. there's been a race to the bottom as far as american wages regardless over the past 30 years. that's a big factor in this. the reason savings rates were down for a lot of years was not strictly because people were less careful with money but because they had a lower, lower margin of safety versus wages, cost of living was going. now people are saving because there was nothing. now they are not spending, being very careful with money and sitting on it because they are not trusting the economy right now. the savings rate is not going up because people are like, i need to learn in kind of a depression

era style to handle my money better but because they are afraid this isn't the end of it. they are kind of sitting on a little bit of money. it's not a lot. it just statistically looks like a lot because it's across a wider span of people. >> as they should be. they should be sitting on that money, definitely. some of the other demographics. we don't have any space basically to save. next year there's going to be another measure of poverty. steven, i'm sure you can talk to this, about how next year we'll be closer than 20% in the new way of factoring poverty because they are going to factor in child care and health insurance and that's going to bring the number closer to 20% of. >> for a long time. >> it all gets back to jobs. if we can get that unemployment rate down and people back into the workforce. look, if somebody is unemployed, their income is zero, this has

caused a big decline. let me say one thing, the last 30 yearsish the american family has been one of the greatest booms in history. we've seen gigantic gains in wealth and incomes over the last 30 years. what we've got to do -- in fact, one of the things that strikes me about what happened with the u.s. economy, the hallmark of the economy for the past 30 years has been rising incomes. upward income mobility. one of the reasons we have a lot of poor people, we bring in immigrants every year. every year people are starting at the bottom. >> i think that softens -- yeah, that, i think, doesn't factor the fact over the last 30 years we have two parents entering the workforce and household income growing because you have two wage earners. that variance is very low. you have two people making 80, suddenly you have a household with 170, 180 with that extra funds coming. that looks like on paper you've

got tremendous growth in the household when you've really got two earners making that number. >> hold on. carmen, let me ask you something here, fairly short answer on this. do you think, based on what steven was saying here, do you think we as a culture bought into a mythology over the past 30 years that everything was going to get better and better and better and we overextended ourselves. >> absolutely. a lot of people capitalized on the american dream to get people to buy houses that should not buy houses. i have to say as a child of two immigrants, one illegal back in the '50s, this is not a problem of influx into the country this is about the fact wages haven't moved very much if you adjusted for inflation since the '70s. this dual income household -- >> that's not true. if you look at compensation to workers -- if you look at

compensation over the last 30 years, compensation of the average worker is up 30%, spending is up 50%. there's no question the average household -- look what the average household has, cell phones to computers, internet, all these things that 25, 30 years ago people didn't have. >> they are paying out of pocket $500 to $1500 for health insurance coverage, paying for child care. we have these dual income households where both people have to work so there's no safety net. it's an illusion. >> we are going to pay for tv by taking a short break here and we'll be right back. the queen of ultimate goody bags. who am i talking about? her latest gift requires a passport, a day on an airplane and a little bit of controversy. we'll take a closer look at the real business of oprah with our panel. stay put. bold. daring. capable of moving your soul.

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i just wish that all of the important information was gathered together in one place. [ printer whirs ] done. ♪ thanks. do you work here? not yet. from tax info to debunking myths, the field guide to evolving your workforce has everything you need. download it now at thinkbeyondthelabel.com. look at all this stuff for coffee. oh there's tons. french presses, expresso tampers, filters. it can get really complicated. not nearly as complicated as shipping it, though. i mean shipping is a hassle. not with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service.

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announced by global officials will require banks to put aside more capital as a safety net for hard times to prevent another meltdown. the challenge is to make sure the banks are saving enough money but not so much that it prevents lending and the flow of credit. steve, this is supposed to go into effect in 2013. will this work? >> you just put your finger on the paradox. on the one hand we do want banks to be safe. no one wants to see a housing bubble where banks are making loans to people who couldn't possibly afford to repay them. on the other hand, everyone knows watching this show, homeowners and small businessmen, there's a capital crunch right now that banks aren't lending. so those are the two competing, conflicting interests here. i do think it's a sound thing to have banks have more capital. we don't want to go back to the days where we had banks like lehman brothers, bear stearns with $30 of debt for every dollar of equity. that's a bubble that will burst.

>> digging in spurs and pulling back the reins at the same time. we all watched as oprah surprised her audience with an eight-day trip to australia. what may surprise you is taxpayers down under will foot the bill. australian tourism department spent about $3 million dollars for the trip. he says it's money well spent. harpo will cover taxes any audience members incur. this is a nice vacation for americans. do you think the publicity is worth it for australia? >> no question. arguably, if you look how much money they have spent in years past, the shrimp on the barbie campaign. how much do you think that cost? $3 million to get that group of people over there and back safely. that will be some of the best

they have spent in a long time. it's very smart. >> i think crocodile dundee movie did more from them than almost anything? >> and that cost $14 million not including p and a. >> exactly. you know, another story in the news this week, members of the new york jets have been accused of harassing a female reporter that entered the team's locker room recently. the incident caused the nfl to send a memo stating by law women must be granted the same rights for their jobs as men, please remember women are professionals and should be treated as such. carmen, there's no question that's the standard. hold on. let carmen jump in here. that's the standard. we should all do that. but it does seem -- i see a lot of people in the hallway saying, well, you're in a locker room with a bunch of guys wearing towels. >> your expectation as looking as wonderful as ines did and

going into the locker room where the men's point in the locker room is to get naked and change their clothes. it's absolutely wrong. of course there should be professionalism. i haven't seen a fellow latina get this much press since sonia sotomayer but unfortunately it's about her bum bum. >> when you put a female reporter in a locker room, the whole point from the point of view is pejorative, the idea of putting her in harm's way. let's be clear on this, football players are awful people. they are the worst -- >> no, they are not. >> i worked with nfl rookies and rookie camp and worked with rookies -- >> i'm not talking about rookies. i'm talking about the professional football players are the worst of everything,

attitude -- >> steven, what do you think about that. >> i'm loud to speak in extraordinary terms. relax a little bit. >> i'm not going to touch this one with a 10-foot pole. look, i think when you're putting a buxom beautiful woman in a room with men bouncing with testosterone. i'm old school, carmen. i know you're going to beat me up on this, i don't think women belong in the locker room. >> we're not animals, right? they can control themselves a little bit. they can look all they want but keep your mouth shut so she can do her job and go. >> let me ask you a question, what if we ever had and we don't yet, what if we had women's sports rise to men's sports, do you think we'd have the same thing if a male reporter was hanging around the women's locker changing clothes? >> no, women do talk like this

with men. >> we do. >> they are clear to make sure it happens when we're outside the room on purpose. that's part of the reason of talking about me when they are outside, it's just them talking about it. men don't do that. we think it will help us get her, which is the dumbest things in the world. again, football a great example of the worst in men. >> carmen, let me ask you something. >> go ahead. tell me. ask me. >> let me ask you something, would you be uncomfortable going into a locker room like that? do you think you'd -- we have human nature, that's hard to deal with. >> what would over look my discomfort, looking at the fabulousness around me. i would keep my eyes closed but you better believe i'd get an eyeful. >> she would be objectifying men around her. we have come this far.

that's lovely. >> we have whole industries built around objectifying people and we're all say we're shocked, shocked to find it happening. >> not shocked at all. >> at a safe distance, though. >> not shocked at all. she should not have been shocked either at all, really. what's your expectation? if you're going to look that way, beautiful and wonderful and walk into a locker room, you have to expect it will happen. it's not right that it happens. really, we have to be real about this. none of us are surprised this happened. nobody is surprised. >> that's why we can't have women in the locker room. >> i say they can put up with it. >> you're going to get mail over that. >> thanks to carmen, comedian hal sparks. hal has a comedy dvd out called charmegeddon. check it out. he's one of the most

controversial, outspoken directors out there, oliver stone talks about the return of gordon gekko and wall street. that's next. host: coulswinto geico really save you 15% or more on car insuranc did the little piggy cry w wee all the wahome?

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before the financial crisis there was wall street in the '80s where greed was considered very good captured in this famous line from oliver stone's film "wall street." >> greed, for lack of a better word, is good. greed is right. greed works. >> steven, 25 years later, has anything changed on wall street? is greed good? >> i hate to tell you, i'm a defender of greed myself. if i have a financial manager, i want that person to make as much money as possible. i think most americans do. it is true we have runaway

expectations. to some extent when you look at what happens with this financial collapse, there's no question wall street just got completely carried away, making investments that made absolutely no sense for people. you have scandals like the bernie madoff scandal that devastated people's pinks and so on. there's one scene in that movie i just love. remember that scene where gordon gekko is walking down the beach and he has a cell phone in his hand. it's like a brick. see how times have changed. back in a cell phone in 1987, and now today, $40. >> co-author, financial serial killers inside the world of wall street, money hustlers, swindlers and con men. same question to you. what if anything has changed since the movie came out. >> greed is still there. 1980s greed was out of control.

we had all this insider trading. things were bad. things got worse. the 1990s, the tech bubble and tech busting. then greed really spun out of control when it affected all of us and almost brought down the entire financial system in the united states of america. now it's costing us trillions and trillions of dollars. it seems to escalate and in my case it's harming people. >> let me ask you this, "i was just half kidding when i said i'm a defender of greed, what i meant is there's nothing wrong with making money. that's what the american system is about. define greed. >> the word "greed" i take as a advice. ambition is great. entrepreneurialism is great. i take greed as being an extreme and negative word. it's when the avarice gets to such a peak it causes harm and

it hurts people and others. >> sit on those thoughts for a minute. the sequel to this movie that defined wall street in the '80s is about to hit theaters. it's called "wall street, money never sleeps." ali velshi sat down with oliver stone and ali asked him how his film captures the financial collapse of lehman brothers and financial fall of bear stearns. >> we have federal reserve board meetings. we have the fall of bear stearns. the idea of rumors being floated that can hurt a firm. there's three rumor montages in the film that show rumor can hurt a company. jimmy coen at bear stearns went to washington and said he thought rumors might have had a very big role in the fall of bear stearns. evenings somebody was betting against him and going short.

>> oliver, back when we were reporting on this financial crisis in 2008, it sometimes felt like we were in a movie. you captured a lot of that using actual track and actual things that happened on tv and many of the players who were involved at the time. in fact, i'm hoping my life changes on september 24th, because you made me into a star. i want to show our viewers a little clip that had me in it for the movie. >> anyone who doesn't admit that is just kidding themselves. >> you have to look a little bit hard to find it, but it's there. oliver, you really reached out to a lot of people who had some involvement in this, either from the financial world or from the world of financial journalism. give me your thoughts about this melding reality and fiction. >> i like to do that in my movies. i thought you were really a star, ali. i used mostly cnbc people because they covered this around the clock. they are very good at it. i have many of them in the

movie. but you, i knew that bald dome was going to go all the way. >> you often in your movies have a particular view that is out of the consensus view. in this particular case, history has seemed to have verified the fiction thank you put together. there really were rumors that affected wall street. there really were bad actors on wall street in many ways. >> oh, yeah. that's what the internet and television coverage, when we did original wall street we didn't have back-to-back business coverage you have now. everybody talking, sometimes too much. they get overheated. the business news has grown into sports or movie news. it's nonstop. i'm not so sure that's good for the system, although it's more transparent. it does lead to circles of viciousness and rumor and hype. a stock, as you know, drops. look what happened a few months ago, the market just crashed. what's going to happen. it does scare me.

it's the nature of the modern world i suppose. >> it's the nature of the modern world, oliver stone just said referring to nonstop media coverage of wall street. coming up, we'll ask our panel if financial reform would have prevented wall street's natural meltdown. stay with us. packed into one. more innovation. more great values. craftsman. trust. in your hands. words alone aren't enough. our job is to listen and find ways to help workers who lost their jobs to the spill. i'm iris cross. we'll keep restoring the jobs, tourist beaches, and businesses impacted by the spill. we've paid over $400 million in claims and set up a $20 billion independently-run claims fund. i was born in new orleans. my family still lives here. i'm gonna be here until we make this right.

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we're talking about wall street then and now. tom, before the break oliver stone mentioned how business news coverage impacts impacts w street. do you think it's as grand as he thinks? >> i think there's more real-time information. i think it's positive. i think the financial news and the media has been a positive as has the internet. itis harder to hide information. for many years, investors could hide things. secret deals still go on, but there's so much seepage and leakage through the internet. it gives the general public better access to what the pros has in the past. >> reform legislation.

does it do anything to reign in wall street? >> let me tell you how jealous i am of ali of get thag cameo. there's safeguards in place. go back to the idea of let the investor be ware. we have to be more diligent of following where our money is. we were talking bernie madoff saying he's a great guy. >> hold on a second. let me challenge you. here's the problem for me for many, many people. you want to be diligent. >> if you don't understand it, don't investigate in it. >> oh -- tom do you think? >> warren buffet says that. like enron. >> it's warren buffett's job. is that fair to say you have to treat the market that way?

frankly, i think everyone would pull out of the market. >> we can't expect that. people don't have the time. warren buffett does well because he does it 24 hour as day, seven days a week and has done it for decades. is it realistic to think we are going to understand enron? no. there has to be a degree of honesty and a degree of transparency. there has to be laws and rules. >> it's all true. let's not mislead investors. we have seen the biggest bull market investment. the dow jones with 800 today, it's near 10,000 and 11,000. there have been ups and downs. stocks for the long run is always -- just park the money in the stock market and keep it there. don't be a day trader. >> thanks to you both for being

here. we can gather in the old folks home and see how it turns out. up next, why a good number of folks applying for jobs might not actually want the job at all. we'll explain, next.

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there has been so much talk here in washington this week about how small businesses create two out of three jobs. the problem is growing a business is tough. the president of rigid paper tube incorporated knows about that and he spoke to cnn ease

poply harlow. >> reporter: how hard is it to run a small business? >> it's not something you can take a backseat on. you have to be involved in every aspect of the business. how much more do you have to do? this is your last box? >> reporter: we hear so often nothing is made in america anymore. it's not true. your company makes paper tubes. >> yep, made in america. materials are purchased in america and canada. the work force is local people. we have the opportunity to add more jobs locally. >> reporter: is the president's latest plan, the $200 million tax break is it what small businesses need right now? >> we need everything we can get. i would look into additional

equipment. >> reporter: would that mean hiring more people? >> it would. i hope to have 50 employees in the next two years. i would like to modernize the production lines and get into a larger building. >> what do you think the government could do that it's not doing for small businesses? >> i think that as far as unemployment extensions go, they could limit the amount of extensions they put. we've had a help wanted sign out front for six months. people come in, fill out applications, we sign their slip they have been here, looked for a job -- >> to get unemployment benefits? >> exactly. they tell me they are happy with the unemployment. maybe when it ends, they will consider it. they have to start fresh. if they get back into the company, even if it's making lez than they were before. if you are an aggressive, hard

working person, there's plenty of opportunities for you. >> what are the chances of getting the loans he needs for his business? >> when you look at the statistics, they are not optimistic. they have gone down 18% but for someone like michael and his family, they are not worried. they think they will be able to get a loan with the local bank. they have had conversations with them. now, they are looking to see what the government can do. if they are not going to get something from the government, they will try from the bank. he's going to hire twice as many workers as he has now, put it on the overnight shift. the outlook is better than for a lot. interesting for him to say i have jobs but people don't want them. they would rather be on unemployment. it's not something we hear a lot of people say. >> great