feet to the fire. when it comes time to vote, you have to as i think i mentioned on our show friday night, grow up and realize there's a big difference between a disappointing friend and a deadly enemy. yes, there are lots of ways it's been disappointing. mostly because he's working with republican obstructionists and in an era in almost nothing can get done in washington. yes, we should keep holding his feet to the fire. when it comes to voting and you have two choices, that's the time to rally around the better choice. there's not a perfect choice, but there is a better choice. who's going to suffer if they don't show up at the polls? not obama. he doesn't need an abortion. you know, if they don't show up in 2012 when he runs again and it's a republican president, and he starts appointing people to the supreme court who don't feel that way, as a lot of progressives do, that that should be a right that women have, you know, who's going to pay for it? >> that's all for us tonight. thanks for stopping by. hope we'll see you tomorrow. "parker spitzer" starts right flow.

-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com good evening, i'm kathleen parker. >> i'm eliot spitzer. welcome to "parker spitzer." kathleen, second show, last night was great. don't you think? >> for those who may have missed it we should reintroduce ourselves. you're a liberal new york city democrat and i'm sort of -- >> character, but i'll live with it for now. >> i'm a regular american -- >> prague mattive conservative. >> pragmatic conservative from the south. we're going to have different ideas about things. >> sometimes. a lot of times we don't. >> anyway, what we want to do on this how is talk about the most important ideas, events, people of the day. tonight we have -- >> tonight we have some of the most interesting people. who are we starting with? >> dick armey, the former majority leader and also sort of figurehead of the tea party. >> we have a loto thank him for. >> manifesto. a brilliant historian, doris kearns goodwin. she got a pulitzer prize. a brilliant woman. fun to listen to.

great record, but she roots for the boston red sox. i'll forgive her. >> some people may not know about here, she's the first female journalist to go into the boston red sox's locker room. we're going to talk about the midterm elections, the thing in the news. >> it is critical. >> the most important issue for us. >> these elections matter. if they go one way then president obama has the congress he wants to work with. if they don't, the republicans win, take the congress, then the president faces a very different dynamic. it's also with four weeks to go, it's silly season. it's when ads you wouldn't believe end up on the tv screen. let's take a look at one tonight from christine o'donnell. you may remember her. she is the republican and tea party candidate from the state of delaware. candidate for the united states senate and you know what, couple years ago she said, i dabbled in witchcraft. so take a look what she's p putting up on the air. >> i'm not a witch.

i'm nothing you've heard. i'm you. none of us are perfect, but none of us can be happy with what we see all around us. politicians who think spending, trading favors, and backroom deals are the ways to stay in office. i'll go to washington and do what you do. i'm christine o'donnell, and i approve this message. i'm you. >> does the ad work for you? >> does it work for me? >> yeah. >> depends on what you mean. it is halloween, right? that's cool. i though it was exceedingly creepy and weird, and no she's not -- she says, i'm you. i'm thinking, no, not me, babe. what did you think? >> i thought it was brilliant. i have to tell you -- >> here we go again. >> i was in the arena of politics. i think this ad touches the nerve that has made her appeal to the public. when she says, it's not that i'm not a witch -- let me finish this. it's not that i'm not a witch. she a mocking the media. the media -- she's basically --

>> talk to me. >> -- saying of course i'm not a witch. you know, we know that. >> no. >> here's the line that matters. the line that matters is when she says, i will go to washington and do what you would do. she's saying to real people, i know what you want to do to those folks. you can send people there with credentials, they have policy points. we're going to go take the place apart. now, here's where i completely part company with her. i think the dtea party, that piece of the republican party has no ideas. it will lead us down a dangerous road. remember herbert hoover? we all remember him. president during the depression. that's where they're taking us. they're going to destroy our country, but that is an appealing ad. >> notice how politely i've been listening. i understand what you're saying, but she's saying she's going to go to washington and, yeah, she represents the angry people who are sick of the elites. what are we going to do now? start burning elites at the stake? >> understand that's what the politics of the moment is.

there is an element of truth to it. she's saying, look, all the people who are so smart, to use their line, this is a lit l tough for me, all the people went to the big universities and harvard and princeton. you're pointing at me. she's saying they haven't done so well, have they? >> she's talking about you, eliot. >> i think the ad is an appealing ad. i don't know if it's going to win. i don't think she'll win. it speaks to the public. >> it's an interesting ad and one of fred davis' productions. he's very, very good at tapping into the zeitgeist to figure out exactly what people need to hear. he did the morning in america ads that has been so successful. she is representing that tea party anger that we've been talking about. >> there's also something much deeper going on here. this is what really does trouble me. we are at a fork in the road. one direction is down toward the path of hoover she represents. the other path is of a smart government that believes in markets and competition but a government that builds the

foundation so we as a nation can compete overseas. that's not what she gets. when we have our conversation with dick armey, it's interesting to see how that plays out. i don't think the tea party has created anything meaningful so we as a nation can build jobs and compete. >> that's a pretty broad statement. i think what we can say is when we spend our time talking about ads like this and we actually have a person standing up there saying i'm not a witch, you know, as you said, we've entered the silly season. unfortunately our politics have become stereotypes, caricatures, on and on. everything's either/or extremes. you're either talking about hating all government, or you know, the government is going to tell us what kind of cereal we eat in the morning for breakfast. there is a center place. that doesn't mean we're always going to agree. we want to get to some kind of common ground so we can have real solutions. >> we know what government needs to do. we won't be a nation that can compete with china. we're going to talk with smart

folks about how we do that on the coming weeks on this show. >> look how effective that witch ad was. we're talking about serious issues and we have christine o'donnell to thank. >> that's right. she's saying to herself right now, she's getting this free press. >> yeah, let's move on. >> we should move on, but these are the issues and how are we going to move on? enter the arena? joining us in the arena, two journalists who covered washington and politics for years. >> nice to see you. >> hi. >> all right. let me introduce you. katrina vanden heuvel, editor of "the nation." reihan salam, "national review" online and other publications. >> great to have you here. you heard us have this conversation about christine o'donnell's ad. what do you take of the slogan i

am not a witch? >> the politics of kondsension have become important to a certain slice of the left. >> explain. >> the politics of, for example, take someone like a sarah palin. sarah palin is like christine o'donnell a very polarizing figure. she's a figure who has plus points, negative points but a figure who closely identifies with a pretty large community of people. so when you mock someone like christine o'donnell for her peculiar religious beliefs, et cetera, there's likely to be a backlash. >> it's a different thing to mock someone. >> 21st century updated, where he was would go on about negativism in the media. but i do -- i will never sit in judgment on a sarah palin, for example. i think politics of c condescension are dead on arrival. they want to gut medicare.

they want to end a minimum wage. these are the real issues of our time. >> i think they want to do -- they want to do some cutting and stop some spending and keep government from expanding. >> that is witchcraft. that i don't believe in. that is witchcraft i will never to my last breath. >> i am a witch. >> i'm with katrina. i think the reason they need to run on the vap pid claims of less government -- at its root what they're going back to is a herbert hoover, pre-f dprksdr - >> eliot, i have a ton of respect for you. in western europe, broadly understood you have about the same amount of tax revenue generated on a per capita basis as in the united states. in the united states we have a much lower tax burden. how is it you're generating same amount of money in both places? when you're talking about herbert hoover and fdr the fact is we live in a different world now. this entails different economic

strategies. >> i wish we did live in a different world. i do believe the right wing today is animated by a desire to roll back the new deal. and those core elements which built a strong middle class in this country and the architect of the pieces, which create a middle class, and i have to say that i see nothing in the tea party or the republicans today except retro old ideas which are about deregulating government which are about cutting taxes for the very rich, and which would put us back in the mess we were in. >> one retro old idea was the reform to social security under president carter, not under president roosevelt. that changed the way we calculate social security, cost of living adjustments. and made the program much, much more expensive. we had to tax on working family -- that's not rolling back fdr, it's rolling back carter. >> let's reframe this conversation. the conversation has to be about what is the proper role for government in driving an economy forward, to create wealth you're

talking about? and how much government investment in things like nasa or in high-speed rail -- >> or in infrastructure which is report today tells us is decaying. >> you find the less government equals more freedom thing. kathleen said early on, the question is not do we go to zero public spending but are we getting value for our money? >> i wrote a column last week called "eat, pray, vote." and i say that, no, because i think you are seeing people wake up to the fact, i come back to this idea of a country that is on the cusp of having the reforms that made it a great country, whether building a strong middle class or other advances being rolled back by those who don't like the new america. and who are angry about a rising american electorate. >> i have to say, i'm comfortable with the new america for all kinds of reasons, but i think the really -- the reason why the right is at a fundamental disadvantage is because you have a large number of active people, some who

turned out in washington this past weekend and many more of whom will turn out in weekends to come who received money from the taxpayer, had very large politically powerful, politically influential and have what you might call a class interest in expanding the state at not an interest in improving the efficiency and quality of the public services we consume. the fact you have a couple tea partyers here and there, they have nothing close to the power of this incredibly organized and disciplined group of literally millions of voters who will turn out every time to fight for their salaries. >> specify who you're talking about. >> i'm talking about members of public sector unions. >> it's a fair point. >> that's the wrong kind of class warfare, reihan. when you -- >> my parents are -- >> why scapegoat them when you have a real economy that's in great pain? >> let's maybe concede there are certain things that government can do and should do. there are certain things the private sector can do.

nobody wants their taxes to go up. how do we get president obama to explain what needs to be done in a way that is convincing and that -- how can he unite the american people behind a cause that we're all involved in? >> here's something, i think this president has worked very hard to try to transcend the differences. i think at the end of the day this country faces extraordinary structural systemic obstacles to the change he spoke about. and in my view what we need to do over this next period is not really discuss which ads, but to fight the structural obstacles. i'm all for private/public partnership. >> all right. thank you all so much. thank you so much. coming up we go toe to toe with the engineer of the tea party, former congressman dick armey. another opinionated revision of history, the author of "jfk" and "wall street," oliver stone. we're back in 60 seconds.

>> as a person, choose to say i want to lead this mandatory government program, you're free to leave. you're free to say no to the government. what a marvelous idea. i could say no to the government. i'm 70 years old. i know you don't believe it. >> i don't believe that. >> all kinds of crazy stuff happens. some forget. we've had prohibition, we banned alcohol. america goes into its virtue, it's a know-nothing -- kind of like foreigns are enemies, we hate the europeans, we're an isolationist history and country. we have two huge oceans and feel protected. ...as well as motorcycle insurance... gecko: oh...sorry, technical difficulties. boss: uh...what about this? gecko: what's this one do? gecko: um...maybe that one. ♪ dance music boss: ok, let's keep rolling. we're on motorcycle insurance. vo: take fifteen minutes to see how much you can save on motorcycle, rv, and camper insurance.

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description of the tea party as a hostile takeover of the republican party. >> the tea party is not an agent of either political party. the republican party, i know exactly where you're going with this. the republican party in delaware said, let's have a primary for the senate race. their favorite son, the closest thing to a republican icon they have in this state, took his $3 million, got into the race and he lost to a relatively unknown person with $400,000 or less. now, it's their primary. she won it. he had everything going for him. he lost it. she's now their nominee. they can take it or leave it, but that's their nominee. it's their open primary. now they say, look, she beat our icon, but she can't win the general. well, she just embarrassed you on national television. why would you say -- >> fair point. >> -- the deal that beat your icon can't win the general? >> there's a libertarian streak

in the tea party movement. the gop's still got a very strong contention of very social conservatives. how do we -- how do you integrate those two? >> what you do is you go to the big ideas. i was surprised that mike castle lost that election. he lost that election because he didn't do his job as candidate. he was willing to support cap and trade. and to the freedom loving tea party movement. because they know how destructive it will be to the american economy. and to particularly to jobs in the energy industry. he was willing to support t.a.r.p. which they thought was -- they said t.a.r.p. -- a bush initiative. boneheaded as it were. born out of a bogus idea that has no standing in economic theory whatsoever. >> it did save the banks. >> purely political -- why save the banks? where did too big to fail come from? >> i'm with you on too big to fail. that's a separate conversation. i probably disagree about most of the things you say -- no, no,

not the big words like that. but specific policies you talk about. i want to see if we can get a better understanding of it and see if we agree or disagree on basic stuff. you're talking about a radical redefinition of what government does and doesn't do. >> what government used to be. >> perhaps there was a radical redefinition of what government does and doesn't do a couple hundred years ago. called it the constitution of the united states. it was a constitution that limited government out of dethe rights. we're trying to restore government back to the vision of our nation that made us the greatest blessing in the world. >> i'm not disagreeing with that. i want to see if we can add texture to what this means. i have read a lot of the documents. let me give you specific programs and say, would you fund them? things that people can relate to. would you have had the federal government build the interstate highway system? >> absolutely. you can find that in adam smith's "wealth of nations." >> would you have the federal government pay for higher education?

>> i would not. >> you would not have any funding? >> i don't think the federal government's involvement in higher education has benefited the students of america. >> would you -- >> wait a minute. let me finish that thought if you don't mind. >> federal government has a military academies, and it's an important thing, they should continue to do that. the education of our young people should be under the jurisdicti jurisdiction of the state government. a great university system has not been made better by federal government involvement. >> you'd rip out money that goes to the universities and say the states increase taxes to pay for it? >> let states manage education of their young people. >> centers for disease control, to help make sure we -- >> center for disease control left in the hands of the scientists is probably a very important thing. >> so you would eliminate it? the centers for disease control? >> no, i did not. i would leave it in the hands of the scientists and tell the politicians to butt out.

let real people and real expertise make scientific decisions, medical decisions. let's not have a bunch of political mandates issued by people who don't understand the -- >> how about nih? national institutes for health? >> that is probably acceptable opportunity to do some good with the federal government's taxpayers' dollars, if you have the discipline to leave the agency to do its job on a professional basis rather than corrupting -- >> how about nasa? >> absolutely, i'd fund nasa. i sure as heck would keep it focused on its initial mission. >> in your book, the tea party stuff, they say we're not cutting defense. >> i think, again, you can rationalize every agency. there are efficiencies to be made in defense. as are -- >> you're saying -- i'm trying to -- >> defense is stipulated in the constitution as a legitimate necessary duty of the federal government. >> where are you cutting? >> how about we cut out a lot of nonsense like national endowment for the humanities and arts? how about getting rid of

americorps which is obnoxious? it's an insult to the american people. how about you get rid of the corporation for national broadcasting. in that very nominal party of the budget which is called discretionary spending, which i would probably call indiscretionary spending, lyndon johnson's great society transformed the budget of the united states government from 85% discretionary, 15% mandatory, to just the reverse. now your ability to cut spending and make trims necessary to restore the government to service in the lives of the people is made very difficult because of the dominance of -- >> i think we should point out is the congressman is also an economist. this is not just a political stump speech here. >> this government cannot grow the private sector of the economy by itself, growing larger. it's like you have a 200-pound jockey that thinks if i just eat more and gain myself to 210 the horse will be able to win the

race. >> i like that metaphor. >> that seems simple. we can't afford everything we've got. we have to stop spending somewhere. >> i tell you what, i will give today's retirees and today's working youth a more hard-fast commitment for social security. to every child in america, every working man and woman in this country, i guarantee you you will have social security as you know it today with the only change being a cost of living adjustment that is commensurate with the consumer price index for the rest of your life. if you choose to stay in it. but i'll also give you the right to choose to leave it. >> you're saying something very important that i don't think most people are picks up on. what you're doing is changing the escalator in social security in a way that many people agree with. >> that's right. >> i happen to agree with that. >> i'm going to say to the american people, if you choose -- >> you already said you're going to do one of them. >> you, as a free, born individual person choose to say i want to leave this mandatory

government program, you're free to leave. you're free to say no to the government. well, a few politicians are as colorful as dick armey. the face of the tea party. we'll be right back. now i think the problem for obama has been he's tried to establish that connection. with so many people pulling autohim from tautt him from the other side with things like death panels coming at him from the other side, nobody knows what is true or false. he hasn't been able to connect. they don't have patience much like they did in a much harder time. as a manager, my team counts on me to stay focused. so i take one a day men's 50+ advantage. it's the only complete multivitamin with ginkgo to support memory and concentration. plus it supports heart health. [ bat cracks ] that's a hit. one a day men's.

now for constitution avenue where we go behind the scenes to figure out why people behave the way they do in washington. >> there's no one better to help us do this than our next guest, pulitzer prize winner author, doris kearns goodwin. she worked in lbj's white house and has written about fdr, jfk and childhood love affair with the brooklyn dodgers. >> "team of rivals: the political genius of abraham lincoln" won many prizes and steven spielberg is turning it into a movie. >> we want to start with the concept of the team of rivals. barack obama promised to bring his rivals to the table. there's no one left but hillary. >> hillary was the main -- i remember at the beginning somebody said to him, would you be willing to put into your chief inner circle a rival, even if his or her spouse were an

occasional pain in the butt? he said, right back to lincoln, lincoln said it was a time of pea peril, i'm going to do it. he had hillary, biden. he's playing the role of being somebody who can be in there and rough it up with him. he's got one republican. he tried to gregg another one. he has gates. i think he tried. in today's world it's harder than in earlier times. >> there is the same sense of crisis. we are in two wars. different types of wars than world war ii or the civil war. why does that same sense of patriotism and purpose not permeate washington? >> it's a great question. it's one of the sadnesses i have as a historian, not figuring out why given this time, we're paying so much attention to minor things and talking about tri trivial things. not just in the media but politicians, themselves. something has happened to our system. it will get better.

i'm an optimist. you have to be. >> i mean, obviously you play a role in all of that. i want to talk about that for a minute. the white house has taken on the media in a new way. the president, himself, has spoken about, for example, rush limbaugh. and i wonder, has the media become such a force that we have to -- that it's almost a fourth branch of government rather than a state has to be dealt with -- >> in a funny way i think it's been a fourth branch of government, except other presidents have known how to use it better and work with it better. teddy roosevelt made the media his friends. he became a personality because he knew the reporters and he was good with them. fdr used the radio brilliantly to have conversations with the people and the media became his pulpit. jfk did great press conferences where television was perfect for him. and ronald reagan knew how to give great speeches. i think what's happened with obama, he hasn't figured out the right form for him as president. it worked in the campaign.

when he has a written text, nobody's better. when you're president, speaking to a camera and the stupid teleprompter is there, lbj had a teleprompter, he never wanted to go without. they called it mother. he never wanted to go anywhere without mother. he was so stiff behind there, too. >> i think that's right. is there another dimension? has the media become more invasi invasive, more hostile? it can't let itself develop the bonds or relationships fdr or teddy roosevelt had with the individual networks? >> that's part of it. part of it is the internet has become a big source. it's almost like the fifth branch of government now. what does the internet do to the media? makes everything shorter than it used to be, rushes everything. means one story saturates for weeks on end. >> sticking to the media a minute, it's hard to talk about what the media do because there are so many different kibds kinds of media. you've written a little bit about and spoke about jfk being perfect for tv and different

ones who had different talents for different media. now we're tweeting and we're blogging. is that presidential? i mean, i wonder how that affects offer perception of the presidency when you have the leader of the free world as we like to say, tweeting. it seems -- >> i think what a modern political figure figures today is they have to reach audiences that are segmented however they can. there's no one audience anymore. it used to be that you go on television or when roosevelt went on the radio 85% of the adult radio people are listening to him. you could walk down a street and not miss a word of what he was saying because everyone had it on. you'd keep walking and hear it coming out of the windows. it does diminish somehow the sense of the free world president. >> you referred a minute ago to the sense of immediacy and we want a response right now. when fdr ran in his midterms he was coming off the depression and had not succeeded in his first midterm elections in solving the economic problem. somehow the public gave him time. this time around barack obama coming off his equivalent

economic debacle, not his fault, we're saying you haven't solved it in 19, 20 months, we're blaming you. what has happened to our psyches that we're demanding that immediate response? what should barack do about it it? >> in 1934 we had 20% unemployment. people said, he's going to get killed in the midterm elections. he didn't. he won seats in part because he established an emotional relationship with the people. they trusted him for the future. now i think the problem for obama is, he's trying to establish that connection. with so many people pulling at him from the other side with things like death panels coming in from the other side, nobody knows what is true and false. he hasn't been able to create that connection. they don't have patience like they did way back in a harder time. >> despite all of these problems and challenges, how does president obama stand up against other presidents at this point in his administration? >> one thing historians will say looking back at it 20, 30 years

from now, he's done extraordinary things. he can say, i got a health care bill, nobody got that through from the time they've been traying since teddy roosevelt. i got financial reform that's going to change, perhaps not as much as one would have wanted. that's going to help him. people live in the present day. remember when i was teaching at harvard and one radical stood up and said, fdr didn't end the depression until world war ii came so he's no good at all. i said, people live in the short term. he made them feel better, got them jobs during the '30s. it's opposite with obama. he's done the historic things but hasn't made people feel what's happening to them right now. >> thank you for an interesting conversation. we'll be right back. doris, stay right here. >> i will do it. what about christine o'donnell. have you paid much attention to that phenomenon? >> it's like you're asking me about lottery winners. if i followed the news like that i would lose my mind. >> well, you do.

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our next guest is a filmmaker who often has captured the american zeitgeist from wall street to jfk, from born on the 4th of july to platoon. >> oliver stone is as famous for inflammatory political statements like calling corporations responsible for september 11th. the director of provocateur visited with us recently. you have the perspective on the obama presidency. what do you think so far compared to what you were hoping and expecting? >> well, you know, i like -- i was hoping for the federal delano roosevelt moment, the 1933 moment when he would take it on, because he had a mandate from young. there was that hope that he would brooeathe the new spirit d take on the corporations and the oligarchies that run america. he would have had the people behind him. he could have gotten out of

afghanistan and iraq and been quicker about it and attack the wall street issue faster. >> and so i sense more than some minimal disappointment, sense that he's pulling his punches, as it were. >> that's not surprising. on the other hand, i'm still rooting for him. it's either him and mccain or palin or bush. you know, i don't think there's a choice. >> could you see making a movie about sarah palin? is she movie fodder? >> i think it's a bad idea because you're already empowering her. she's a moron in my opinion. you give her more and more power. she's an andy griffith character -- >> looking backward, as we advance from the future and look back, it's an unusual phenomenon she's entered this political stage. >> not really. you find candidates coming, ignorant people run for office and they win.

the ku klux klan was marching the streets of washington, d.c., in 1923 to an astounding success. >> what is the response? >> a woman, i don't think we've had -- >> all kind of crazy stuff happens. we've had prohibition, right? america goes into its virtue. it's know nothing, like, foreigners are enemies, we hate the europeans, we blame them. we're an isolationist country and isolationist history. we have two big oceans and feel protected. >> how do you expect this to burn out and end? >> with the climate and media empowering her you could have an election she could win. if she wins we deserve what we get. >> what about christine o'donnell? >> it's like you're asking me about lottery winners. if i followed the news like that i would lose my mind. >> can we talk about your new movie "money never sleeps"? >> he had something to do with

it. >> tell me about that. >> great. early on when we were doing the research and came to your office, you gave us the time, it was two hours. we talked about -- you said, look, go to this goldman sachs, go to this aig issue, this is where the nexus of the evil empire lives. he told us -- it shocked me. i sat there stunned. i remember that afternoon. it hadn't been in the newspapers. he said, goldman is shorting its own clients, they're going long and short in the subprime narcotic. the concept had never crossed my mind. >> you never -- >> you investigated wall street excessively and did a great job. >> back to the movie. >> we wouldn't be here where we are now. it would have been a different ball game. >> is eliot spitzer a movie? >> got to make enemies in politics and he proved that. >> i want to go back to fdr. fdr had a difficult moment two years into his presidency as barack obama has. he doubled down. he instead of veering back the way bill clinton did, instead of

saying let's compromise, he said, i believe in these principles and he went after the al garks in a different way. would that have worked in this moment? >> there was a moment in time when obama had the -- the electorate was sizzling with -- even the republicans were upset with bush. it was that moment in time. >> let me ask you this. would you have thrown away -- i happen to agree with you. i think what stood in his way was this incessant push for bipartisanship which everybody desired. when they won the obama administration suddenly was surrounded by the traditional establishment. his cabinet, i call it his cabinet continuity you can believe in. they lost that energy for change and embraced wall street that then got its wishes and its desires when it came to the fundamental issues. >> not only geithner and summers but also gates, robert gates at defense. i think -- i know you're going -- many of you will disagree. hillary clinton at defense. secretary of state was a huge

mistake. she had voted for the iraq war. >> can you ever get change that's bipartisan? part of what roosevelt was willing to do was say, look, transformation cannot be bipartisan. >> he appointed francis perkins, henry wallace. he had great people in there and they went at it. >> our take away message here is eliot spitzer for secretary of the treasury. >> trying to -- >> i think you're a great talk show host, but secretary of the treasury is my vote. we're familiar with the christina o'donnell ad, i'm not a witch. we like to have a little party round. what kind of denial would other politicians make along this line? >> i think i'm not a bestiality talking thug who wants to take out a "new york post" reporter with a baseball bat. [ male announcer ] learn about a free trial offer from abilify.

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welcome to our political party, off beat conversation about folks who have strong opinions on political topic. >> it's a party. doris kearns goodwin who needs no introduction. she's the his toron, author of a gazillion books. l lori grove, "daily beast." >> and errol, a columnist. we have dave ziron -- we know each other. i'm telling the truth. anyway, dave ziron who is the sports editor for "the nation." at 5'10" tall, you were the center on your high school basketball team. either you were great or the team was not so great. >> we were fantastic, we were epic, and i'm not a witch.

>> speaking of which, thank you for that segue. >> no problem. >> we're all familiar with the christine o'donnell ad, i am not a witch. we like to have a party round. what kind of denial would other politicians make along those lines? with dick nixon said, i'm not a crook. you know who said, i did not have sex with that woman. so come up with a politician, and what would he say? >> i think i'm not a bestiality pushing thug who wants to take out a "new york post" reporter with a baseball bat. it's too long. it's too long. >> let's have the denial. we'll try to figure out who it is. that is good. >> got one? >> i'd say, you know, i think the president, it's long past time he had a press conference to say he's not a socialist welfare thug muslim. i mean, we need to clear this up. we've been waiting -- >> my one, if i could, okay, it's not a denial but it's of this ilk.

it's a, i'm meg whitman and i employ undocumented workers, and so do you, california. well, at least those of you -- >> gutsy. gutsy. >> appealing to those who have servants. >> she's going for the 10 million and above income level who are proud of their employing illegal immigrants. >> she's going to own it. >> that's a different approach. >> we're dealing with the tough issues confronting the future of the united states. this is what politicians become. >> that's sad. this whole thing drives me crazy. when i think of the lincoln/douglass debates and they were talking about the -- >> do you think that had is effective? do you think that is going to resonate with people, i am not a witch? >> i think it's a mistake. who knows, maybe she thinks it's clear the deck -- >> this was clearly a strategic decision. i'm curious -- >> doris, do you think future historians will be poring over the tweets of sarah palin or facebook musings? >> what a great book.

the tweets of sarah palin. >> think of the archive work you've done. >> what we have 200 years ago are letters and diaries and intimate resources to let us know what people were feeling and thinking. 200 years from now -- >> with twitter you know the time and the date -- >> who cares what they said? >> a smart individual observed to me until about the 1930s or '40s people wrote letters, then spoke over the phone. we had 60 or 70 years where we missed the intimate thoughts -- >> except for the tapes. >> now we're going back to the interpr internet so we're going to get it. >> the election is less than a month away. across the country is there a particular race you're following? >> i loved jerry brown/meg whitman. jerry brown is the madonna of politics. meg whitman is spending the equivalent of madonna's wealth.

>> why is jerry brown the madonna? >> he's reinvented himself many times. downwardly mobile, wanted to be president, ended up as party chairman, mayor of oakland. >> dated alex rodriguez. oh. the state of california versus marijuana. see, they're doing the referendum there. you fly into l.a.x. you get a contact high. it is a cash crop. it could solve the budget issues for that state. the amount of hypocrisy of every single person who's going to vote against it boggles the mind. it could help deal with drug issues with mexico and violence along the border. i hope people in california vote yes on weed. >> where do you register? i expected you to relocate and vote. >> maryland. >> no exciting races there. >> absolutely nothing. it's maryland. >> you have a governor's race.

>> bob ehrlich against o'malley. you get with the two of them, tweedledum, tweedledumer. it's like a boston red sox game. it's not very exciting. >> you guys are on opposite sides of the table. i've got another question i want to ask when we come right back in 60 seconds. reples tiles, moldingand half y. the craftsman cordless multi-tool. the power and versatilityof six. packed into one. craftsman. trust. in your hands.

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welcome back to our political party. let's squeeze in one more quick question. the baseball playoffs start tomorrow. none of the great rivalries are on the lineup. rivalries define competition. doris, what is your favorite political rivalry. >> i'm living with one right now. i'm writing about teddy roosevelt and taft. they were great, great friends before they ran against each other in 1912, knocked each other out, destroyed the progressive ring of the republican party. >> and it's never returned.

>> never has returned. the best rivalry is jfk and lbj. lbj was able to pass the things jfk mobilized the country for. >> did they ever appreciate that? i guess they couldn't have. >> no, jfk and lbj got along well. it was bobby and lbj that hated each other. that's the most mortal rivalry. >> that was my rivalry, and the reason -- i mean, an intraparty rivalry is more vicious and much more interesting and more dramatic. a book about this was called "mutual contempt." it was toxic on every level and fashion nating. >> great title. we can't write our book now. >> errol? >> it doesn't get more heated than alexander hamilton versus alex burr. this is real rivalry. >> i think we should bring dueling back. >> this is in honor of doris. teddy roosevelt versus college football. teddy roosevelt loved college

football at first because he thought it taught particularly young men from wealthy schools, ivy league schools how to be real men, preparing them to rule the country in the 20th century. then players started to die on the field because there were no rules. teddy roosevelt wanted to ban football in this country. they had to organize the rules. as a way to keep college football around. so because of teddy rose velvor crusade against college football is how we have the game we know today. >> amazing. >> that's interesting. i hate to break up the conversation. we're throwing a party every night at this time on "parker spitzer." thanks to our guests for coming. we hope you'll come back and join us again. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. rning pa? introducing bayer am, an extra strength pain reliever with alertness aid to fight fatigue. so get up and get goin'! with new bayer am. the morning pain reliever.

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i'm randi kaye, "parker spitzer" is back in a moment. first the late ef. in connecticut a guilty verdict in the capital murder trial of stephen hayes. he was convicted on 16 of 17 counts in the deaths of jennifer hawke-petit and her two daughters. the trial's penalty phase begins october 18th. in new york a defiant fie zal shahzad sentenced to life behind bars for the botched car bombing last may. he pleaded guilty in june. at today's sentencing he warned americans to quote, brace yourself, the war with muslims has just begun. in the last few weeks we've reported on multiple youth suicides linked to bullying. ellen degeneres is speaking out about the epidemic and joining the fight to end bullying. she joins anderson tonight. that's the latest. now back to "parker spitzer."