clinton? reporter bob woodward says it's a possibility on the table. remember the 33 trapped chilean miners? drilling crews could reach the underground chamber by the weekend. and the president is calling the rescue imminent. we're live with the scene with more details on how this will happen in just a moment. >> wouldn't that be a great october surprise for them? >> absolutely. up first, talking with the enemy. this morning, the "washington post" is reporting secret high-level meetings are underway. >> sources are telling the paper the taliban is very serious about finding a "way out" and ending the war and people at the table speak for the afghan taliban's leader mohammed omar. live for us in kabul this morning. how likely is it that the afghan government could indeed make any progress in talks with the taliban? >> reporter: well, kiran, things are always very murky here in afghanistan when it comes to afghanistan and pakistan.

and especially the taliban, which bridges both the borders. high-level afghan officials denying this is an afghan government initiative. they're describing this as talks between certain afghan and pakistani political figures. and they're also denying that the taliban is anywhere involved in these talks. however, some of the figures that we've talked to, afghan sources say that a former taliban official who has reconciled with the afghan government years ago, he is one of the people that has been active in these conversations taking place. it seems like whatever's going on, whatever these negotiations are, they're very much a preliminary negotiations. perhaps you could describe them as one analyst did as talks about talks. certainly a good sign given the amount of bloodshed we've seen in this country over the last nine years, though, kiran. >> yesterday, ivan at the pentagon press conference. it was mentioned that general

petraeus has admitted that the taliban is negotiating with the government. let's listen to what geoff morrell has been saying. >> perhaps he or his spokesman would want to elaborate on it. i think what we have seen, michael. and you travel with us, you heard this firsthand from general petraeus when you all spoke with him then is we have seen a high level outreach by some members of the taliban to the afghan government. >> ivan, military planners aware this is happening, that would be a natural, certainly if the diplomats did. but what's it going to mean to our military mission there? >> well, i think there's broad agreement that there is not a purely military solution to this conflict going very soon into its tenth year, the bloodest year yet for the u.s. troops on the ground. i talked with the embassy here, their conditions for any

possible settlement, they say they haven't changed. they want taliban to break ties with al qaeda, and to live under the afghan constitution that includes equal rights for afghan men and women. last week, the taliban, we reached out to them, they rejected general petraeus' claims that a high-level taliban official had reached out to the afghan government. they said there's no negotiation process underway. and they said that their standards for any kind of negotiated process would be the removal of all "foreign occupying forces from afghanistan." that said, we have heard over the years about efforts at negotiation between key insurgent leaders in the past. this is not a new thing. negotiations of some sort taking place. but, again, very early stages. and this war is more violent than ever right now, john. i just came down from the south. afghan nato forces dying every

day as a result of ieds and taliban commanders being targeted day after day. >> no question, a lot of difficulties remain there. ivan watson, thanks. >> and speaking to that issue yet again, we're talking about nato supply trucks being torched, dozens more being torched this morning. it happened on the pakistani side of the border. thousands of gallons of fuel burning out of control after gunmen fired on the convoy. this is the third major attack on supplies in the past week. these trucks have been sitting ducks as it's been described to us because they have nowhere to go since pakistan closed vital supply lines to coalition troops last week to protest a nato air strike that killed three of its soldiers according to reports. the initial report from nato on that attack is due out today. now to the most politics in the morning. the rumors are swirling that secretary of state hillary clinton will join president obama on the ballot in 2012. appearing on john king usa last

night. "washington post" reporter bob woodward was asked about vice president biden switching positions with the secretary of state. >> you know the talk in town. a lot of people think if the president's weak going into 2012, he'll have to do a switch and run with hillary clinton as his running mate. and all the asides you're doing, sometimes you have political asides. things like that come up? >> it's on the table. and some of hillary clinton's advisers see as a real possibility in 2012 president obama needs some of the women, latinos, retirees that she did so well with during the 2008 primaries. and so they switched -- >> the white house senior adviser david axelrod is quoted in the "washington post" saying, there's absolutely nothing to it. ed henry's going to join us later on in the hour to talk about this.

>> it'll be interesting because the past two years of this administration, she's been able to look very in command, in charge, out of the political fray. and so she looks like a really, really appealing figure right now for democrats. >> and in a recent poll, 37% of democrats say they would vote for her over president obama if they were going head-to-head in 2012. >> we'll see what ed knows about it later. meanwhile, president obama kept his cool during a speech at "fortune" magazine's most powerful women summit. check out what happened, the presidential seal became unsealed. >> engineering -- we cannot sustain -- whoops. was that my -- oh, goodness. that's all right. all of you know who i am. but i'm sure there's somebody

back there that's really nervous right now. >> probably that's a safe bet. there you go. maybe it was him. the seal was retrieved after the president's speech. and by the way, men aren't usually invited to speak at the event. but the president earned the spot considering his cabinet and supreme court nominations. >> you think john boehner had anything to do with that? also this morning, a police man hunt underway. the suspect described as mentally unstable. police say he stopped his pickup truck in rural out of the way spots in both states randomly asking people questions about honey bees before opening fire. extreme weather pounding a city of phoenix for a second straight day. we have a reporter mike watkis of ktvk. >> reporter: now it's hailing. yeah, look at this, james. we've got hail here, wind is blowing, knocking down road

signs. this is something james. you get underneath there. let me talk, you just stay there. look at this. look at this. those pellets of hail are falling like bullets now. this is painful to be out here. and you can see -- look at all the water. that's just in a matter of minutes. >> oh, my goodness. >> i don't know who is going to have more fun with that, the late night shows or -- we'll see. powerful heavy winds, though, and hail damaging homes, knocking down power lines, paralyzing airlines at sky harbor phoenix. we get it, why are you guys standing out there? when you told everybody else to get the heck out, stay inside. and you guys are out there. let's get a quick check of this morning's headlines. rob, you never do anything like that, would you? >> never, never. listen -- >> told his camera man, go, hide. i'll keep talking.

>> i'm the biggest chicken out there. i tell you about that. >> you're not a chicken, you just have a lot of good sense. >> i appreciate that, john. but in his defense, nothing illustrates the weather like somebody getting beaten up by it. and if you're a reporter in phoenix, you certainly don't have much an opportunity to do any hurricane coverage. that was his opportunity to get out in the element. and it was an impressive storm, i'll say that about it. and we'll probably see more thunderstorms today across that area. we've got two storms, kind of bookend the u.s. keeping things locked up. and one of them is this one behind me. very unstable, unsettled weather i should say over the past couple of days and it's going to continue for another day or two. just over d.c. it's sitting and spinning and it's giving us problems, that's for sure, and will continue to do that as we go through time. as far as what's going on in the tropics, we are looking at a subtropical depression. basically it's going to be our next tropical depression, potentially tropical storm of

the season. and i'll talk more about that in 30 minutes. it's that big glob of clouds we showed you yesterday over the eastern caribbean. and we'll talk about its potential track over the next four to five days here in 30 minutes. john and kiran, back up to you. >> thanks, rob. this was just such a cute video we had to show it. she's still golden at 88, of course, betty white. her name's on everybody's lips including this adorable toddler. >> betty white. >> who is that? >> betty white. >> yeah. >> betty white has blond hair. >> she does, yeah. what do you think about her? >> she beautiful. >> she is. >> betty white. betty white. betty white. >> he's serenading her. >> what do you think?

year and a half two years old? so there's a difference of 87 years between the two of them. give it a few more months, maybe she'll ask her on a date. >> he's so cute. it's just cute. >> wouldn't it be great if the two of them could meet one day? >> we reached out to her, they hadn't seen the video yet, her people. but i remember when i was in love with george burns. i loved him. i thought he was going to stay the same age and i would catch up. >> didn't happen, no, unfortunately. oh well, life is like that. the president of chile declaring the rescue of 33 trapped miners to be imminent. crews within 3,300 feet of breaking the chamber. live report with karl penhaul on the scene. hi.

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♪ welcome back to the most news in the morning. 14 minutes past the hour. it could just be a matter of days now before 33 trapped chilean miners are rescued. crews bore through the chamber where the men had been trapped for two months now. >> tunnel b is now within a few hundred feet of the trapped miners. we're told that some of the miners have stepped up their exercise regime making sure they're slim enough to fit into that rescue capsule and physically able to endure the strain of being in it. it's going to take an hour to

get them out 2,300 feet. our karl penhaul is live in chile for us this morning. and karl, does it look like they could bore through to the chamber by this weekend? >> reporter: it depends who you listen to, john. because the drills this week have run into technical problems. you can see the operation going on behind me there. it's around the clock operation. but they keep having to change drill bits. and that plan b has run into an area of very hard rocks. they had to change the drill bit. but by all prognosis, they've only got about 500 feet to go now. and if everything goes well, they can cover that distance in three days. they just need three good days, john. certainly could be by this weekend. >> some of the other questions we had is sort of how this logistically is going to work, karl. first of all, it's amazing they're at this point anyway. in the beginning, they didn't even know if they'd get this far. but now, how do they determine

who gets out first? how do they determine logistically how they make this happen? >> reporter: well, first of all, down underground, there is a whole hierarchy that's been established. this has been the own self-governing community for the last two months. and they will almost certainly want to have a say in who goes first into the rescue cage that's been dubbed the phoenix capsule. but also the medics on the surface are checking every man's vital signs, they're checking his weight, and they will also have a say, we think that you're the healthiest. now, what they've said so far is right now they think the healthiest men will be brought up first that way they can get a quick start on the process and then anybody who is maybe a little bit overweight, anybody who is a little bit nervous, they will bring those up towards the end of the line because they could then be a bump in the system. that could be a slowing down of the whole process. so looks like the healthy ones first and then the more nervous

ones second. >> speak, if you would, karl, to the two issues you brought up. several of the miners were overweight. and we know how small that capsule is. have they lost enough weight to be able to fit into it all of them? and then it's a long ride, 2,300 feet. and it could take an hour to get to the surface. to be trapped in that small capsule. what are they doing psychologically to make sure they can withstand that isolation and potential? >> many of these men were well overweight and would've never fitted into that capsule, which is 21 inches in diameter. most of them will have to come up in this rescue position because it's going to be a tight fit. but remember, in the first 17 days, they had no contact with the outside world. and each man had for those 17 days just four cans of tuna. so many of them lost, according

to their families, up to 30 pounds. that obviously has helped them fit in the capsule. and since then, since they were discovered, they've been having an exercise routine handed down to them by a personal trainer uphill on the surface so the personal trainer -- thanks to medical devices that have been passed down into the mine -- is keeping a check how fat these men are. and he'll have them measured every day. he'll check their pulses, their heart rhythms. and on the basis of that will organize an exercise routine. one of the men, we're told, is jogging an hour a day up through about mile and a half of tunnels. some of the others are doing press-ups. they've also had elastic bands. these resistance bands so they can strengthen arm and leg muscles. the medics keeping a close eye on that so they will be in shape for the day. and then when they come up, of course, it's a small space, 21 inches across in that rescue capsule. but they are miners, so they're

used to enclosed spaces. they're used to dark spaces. but what they're now saying is that winch could bring the phoenix capsule up at a rate of about 40 miles an hour. and that would bring them from the mine up to the surface in about just 15 minutes. so that, of course, is good news. they'll have less time to endure. but what the health minister said a few days ago. he says we're working very hard to make this a comfortable ride for them. >> it's just amazing to think of how intricate this operation is and how many things they've thought of along the way and tried to plan for. boy, we wish them the best. good news to hear that the rescue is imminent from the chilean president. thanks so much, karl. >> you know when you consider the mine in pennsylvania where they brought the miners up through one of those rescue cages, they were only 200 feet underground. >> not only that, they were also wet, do you remember that? they were wet from the underground, huddled together.

obviously not under there as long, but there are some that were heavy. it was a tight squeeze for some of them. >> i can't imagine. it's like the ultimate mri machine 2,300 feet underground. we do wish them a lot of luck. coming up on the most news in the morning, the foreclosure freeze. some banks halting foreclosures after new questions about how the paperwork was handled. new details coming up. [ female announcer ] introducing splenda®

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22 1/2 minutes after the hour now. were banks too eager to force some borrowers out of their homes? that's what lawmakers across the country want to know. after bank of america became the latest in a string of banks to freeze home foreclosures in 23 states to investigate whether there were flaws in its process. >> joining us now to talk about it is michael hudson. he covers business and finance for the center for public integrity,which is a nonprofit journalism group. thanks for being here. the banks announcing they're freezing foreclosures in 23 states. so you've got jpmorgan, ally, bank of america, what did they do that's leading to this freeze? >> well, you had a situation where you had in a lot of states you had rocket dockets where the lenders were rushing to foreclose on people. and in many cases, the paperwork wasn't accurate, it wasn't done well. you have a former employee of gmac alley bank who was

testifying he was signing off on 400 documents a day swearing the bank had the right to foreclose on family without reading documents or verifying the information in them. you've also had cases where it's been alleged that documents are being back dated. >> so is it -- is this just a matter of mistakes being made on these documents? or is there something really malicious going on? >> well, i don't know about malicious. but, you know, this is shocking conduct, but it's not surprising for folks who have been following the mortgage industry closely the last few years. just about every nook and cranny of the mortgage machine has had some significant level of fraud. you had, you know, on the front end, for example, in the originating of mortgages, you had mortgage professionals using bait and switch salesmanship, forging borrowers' signatures on key documents, creating fake w-2 forms to qualify borrowers. >> giving people loans knowing full well they would default

because they didn't have the income. in this situation, is part of it the confusion of -- as we talked about these mortgage backed securities were sliced and diced to the point where you wouldn't know the originating bank. is part of it the hassle? >> part of is it is -- you go back a generation or two, you got a loan from your local bank, you dropped all the payments. but then they started selling and trading these mortgages like properties and a game of monopoly. and it was sort of like who's on first? who actually owns the mortgage? and this actually allowed the players in the system to say if a borrower said, oh, i was a victim of predatory lending, it allowed me to say, oh, that was someone else, that mortgage broker no longer in business. now the same system has kind of left us in a situation where there's massive confusion and there's still more incentives to cut corners and break the laws. >> and is there any recourse for people who have been foreclosed

on unfairly? maybe the house is sold, somebody's living in it? >> that's a question. lawyers are going to be going into court trying to reverse some of these foreclosures. but it is hard to undo something that's been done. i think there'll be some pressure on government officials to come up with some sort of legislation or regulatory actions to reverse some of these already completed foreclosures or at least pay reparations to the families that have been wrongfully foreclosed on. >> michael hudson for the center of public integrity. good to see you. >> thanks so much. >> thanks for being with us. just a day after would be time square bomber faisal shahzad gets life in prison. now another accused terrorist is set to go on trial. this case is seen to be a test of the obama administration's ability to try guantanamo bay detainees in civilian courts. [ female announcer ] where are people with moderate to severe

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personal pricing now on brakes. tell us what you want to pay. we do our best to make that work. deal! my money. my choice. my meineke. the trial of a former gitmo detainee set to begin today. the first gitmo detainee to be tried in a u.s. civilian court. >> he's accused of participating in the bombings of two american embassies in africa back in 1998. those attacks killed 224 people. deb feyerick is live at the courthouse in lower manhattan with more on how this case may play out. what is -- first of all, deb, good to have you with us. what are the specific charges he's accused of?

>> reporter: well, you know, it's interesting ghalani is described as osama bin laden's cook, someone who rose up in the ranks. specifically, he bought the truck that was used in the bombing as well as bomb components. so that is what he's being accused of. and prosecutors say they have good evidence, evidence really they compiled almost 12 years ago when they first tried this case against other people who they successfully convicted. >> so there's been this running argument as to where these people should be tried. should they be tried in the military court? should they be tried in a civilian court? this is a real test case for the obama administration about how it goes forward with these prosecutions. >> reporter: you know, absolutely. and this is going to be the first guantanamo detainee tried in a civilian court as opposed to in front of a military tribunal. and the reason the obama administration is arguing it should be held in a civilian court is because the civilian court has a track record of successful prosecutions.

the military tribunals -- there's no sense that those convictions if they are convicted would hold up in front of the supreme court. that's why they're saying do it in a place where we know what to expect, where we know the rules of law, and where it can be done. some have argued it's a threat to national security that these people shouldn't be brought here. but even in a case of faisal shahzad yesterday, sending out a statement that it was a successful conviction, there was no propaganda for al qaeda and a civilian court is the way to go in terms of these prosecutions. this is not a slam dunk case. obviously memories fade, new evidence has to be collected and old evidence has to be sort of reinvigorated. the prosecutors do feel comfortable this case against ghailani is a tight one. >> all right. deb feyerick for us this morning. i know the sanitation trucks are out early this morning, as well. thanks so much, deb. >> a typically noisy manhattan this morning. top stories this wednesday

morning, secret talks underway between the afghan government and the taliban. even though it is very early on, the "washington post" is reporting that negotiations are taking place on a deal that would include some taliban figures in the government and the withdrawal of u.s. and nato forces. also, dozens more nato supply trucks were torched this morning on the pakistani side of the border. they closed the border in protest of a nato air strike that allegedly killed three of its soldiers. the initial report is due out today. the pakistani taliban has claimed responsibility for those convoy attacks. and could an obama/clinton ticket be in the cards for 2012? bob woodward told john king yesterday that some advisers see it as a real possibility that she could swap jobs with vice president biden. >> the political insiders have been talking about since '08. >> our ed henry live at the white house this morning. and ed, it certainly got a lot of people talking. we saw a recent poll that showed

democrats' preferences for hillary clinton and president obama. what's the likelihood that this could potentially happen? >> well, it seems very unlikely, john. and i have to tell you, people inside the white house are rolling their eyes at this kind of speculation. they believe it's idle speculation. you know, first of all they point out that president obama has developed a strong working partnership with joe biden as vice president, even though they didn't know each other very well back in 2008. but they also know there are pieces and strands of this story that will keep it alive in the months ahead. first of all, we all know that joe biden preferred to be secretary of state, he wanted to be secretary of state at the very beginning, was skeptical of being vice president. now while no one ever suggested hillary clinton desperately wanted to be vice president with those polls you noted suggesting she's deeply popular still in some democratic circles. could she be talked into this in 2012 to be number two and set her up to be at the top of the ticket potentially in 2016? who knows. and finally, a big factor this

is not an idle reporter, it's bob woodward, and the fact is this white house cooperated with his most recent book "obama's wars" and has been private about how they think this book shows the president to be a strong commander in chief. when bob woodward throws this out there, it's hard for them to completely run away from it. here's how he put it to john king last night. >> you know the talk in town. a lot of people think the president's weak going into 2012, he'll have to run with hillary clinton as his running mate. in all of these conversations and the asides you have when you're doing serious research, you have political asides. do things like that come up? >> it's on the table. and some of hillary clinton's advisers see it as a real possibility in 2012. president obama needs some of the women, latinos, retirees, that she did so well with during the 2008 primaries.

and so they switch jobs. >> the key part of that sound bite, though, is bob woodward said, some of hillary clinton's advisers think it could be a good idea. he didn't say some of president obama's advisers. that's ultimately going to determine, what the president wants not people close to hillary clinton may think. that's a big factor. and finally you also have turkey that a look at -- we've heard the speculation many, many times. back in '92, i remember the suggestion that then president bush would throw dan quayle under the bus then. and in 2004, there was talk that george w. bush would get rid of dick cheney. neither case did it happen. neither case was there a change. it's extremely rare for a president to change vice presidents in midstream. we've got to remember that, as well, john and kiran. >> plus, where does joe biden stand? would he want that? >> i mean, at the beginning of the administering back in the campaign, he wanted to be secretary of state. he was the chairman of the

senate foreign relations committee back in the senate. secretary of state was always joe biden's dream job. however, things have changed. now that you've been number two, you've got the big mansion in northwest d.c., the naval observatory, do you want to go backwards and become secretary of state? i'm not so sure. >> ed henry this morning with the speculation. thanks so much. >> thank you. coming up on the most news in the morning. new research insists that kids conceived through in vitro fertilization has an academic edge over their peers. [ female announcer ] introducing splenda®

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♪ 19 minutes till the top of the hour. the man who pioneered in vitro fertilization 30 years ago is now a nobel winner. new research out insists that kids who were conceived through in vitro score better on their intelligence tests. so this was the university of iowa that did this. took a look at 400 kids conceived through in vitro fertilization, scored them against other kids who weren't conceived through ivf in the

same socioeconomic background, their peers basically and found the ivf kids scored better on intelligence tests. do we know why? >> well, we don't. it's probably more environment than anything. and it's reassuring that ivf doesn't cause problems because there's always been those concerns. >> that's initially what they were looking for to see if they score as well and they found they scored better. >> there's always been concern the babies will have problems. but we find very few problems with them. most of them associated with multiple gestation and the complication of pregnancy. but this intelligence thing, i don't think intelligence necessarily is a genetic thing. it's partly environmental, it's partly what happens in utero, what happens in the first few years in life. and i think parents who struggle to have a child have a newfound respect for what a privilege it is to be a parent. and i think they may take their job a little more seriously and therefore their children benefit. >> really, so after the child is born, maybe they pay a little more attention, they're a little more engaged than a child who was born conceived through

natural processes? >> that would be my theory to explain it because i don't think there's anything that unique about ivf that would make the babies "better." >> the researchers did point to other potential factors. the age of the parents, the educational level of the parents, lower divorce rates among couples with ivf children. could that potentially play into it? >> sure. a more stable environment, a more loving environment is a fertile ground for a child to do well and develop intelligence. >> fertile ground is important. they also looked at whether or not there was a difference between using embryos that had been just created or embryos that were frozen and stored and found no difference. >> no difference. >> so for people who are -- there are a lot of people who store embryos for a number of years wondering when are we going to have a child? they don't have anything to worry about? >> apparently not. at least in terms of intelligence. and all the data suggests these techniques are safe. there are some issues, but they are minor. this is reassuring for parents who have gone through this. >> you mentioned multiples.

and the study found that singletons scored higher than twins or triplets did, but all of those children, the entire group still scored higher than their nonivf twins. >> there was not significant, but this trend toward lesser intelligence. we weren't designed to have more than one child at once. >> but if it's environment as you say, could it potentially be that if you have twins or triplets, parents can't pay that much attention to each child? >> it could be that, as well. >> so this would seem to be a benefit, a side benefit of ivf. but we've heard other studies that show potentially down sides, like a 42% risk of cancer over a lifetime. is there a trade off when parents think about doing ivf? >> well, of course, there's always the concern about risks. but when you look at the body of evidence, the risks are very, very small. and i think most parents who

choose to have a child using this technology want a child so badly they're willing to take some risk. and the reality is, i don't think they're taking that much risk at all. >> so robert edwards, now a nobel laureate. they went with someone involved in the clinical side as opposed to the research side. think about we've got couples who are both infertile using donor egg, donor sperm, same sex couples can have a child, you can freeze eggs. you were accused of playing god 30 years ago, where is this going now? >> well, we're daily accused of playing god. but we're trying to help patients with clinical problems and help them solve them. and that's what dr. edwards was doing back then. and highly criticized he and his colleague. it took 40 attempts before they had the first pregnancy. and one was a miscarriage and one was an eptopic. it just shows with a passion and vision, you can make a

difference in the world. thankfully it's finally recognized, proudly about 25 years too late, but better late than never. >> a lot of people in this world would not have children in this world if it were not for that process. >> it affects so many people. 4 million babies is not just 4 million people. there's families around those babies lives that have changed. >> a fascinating field that remains controversial. >> always will be. >> thanks for coming in. kiran? forget the traditional brick home, meet the couple that's building homes out of trash. first, though, still to come on the most news in the morning, rob's going the be along with the travel forecast. got some extreme weather yesterday. is it shaping up to be a better day across the nation? he'll tell us it's 46 minutes past the hour. i've been promoted ten times over the span of 11 years. today, i'm a divisional learning and development manager. we can actually help people develop in their own careers. my job allows me to make a difference in the lives

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♪ working my whole life away ♪ another day ♪ another dollar well, it's 49 minutes past the hour. time for us to get a check of the weather headlines with rob marciano in the extreme weather center for us today. we've got a tropical depression. >> yeah, we do. this thing, we've been talking about it for a couple of days. good morning, again. they're naming this a subtropical depression. which means we're getting to the time of year where it's not completely tropical basically. it's really long and the circulation is really wide. but nonetheless, it'll probably become an official tropical depression, possibly even a tropical storm. it's about 200 miles north of puerto rico. there you see it on the satellite picture, the official forecast track. we don't have to worry too much about it. they do think it'll become a

tropical storm with winds of about 50 miles per hour. things are fairly well protected as far as what we're doing with the u.s. we have 14 named storms so far, seven hurricanes -- these are all above average and pretty close to where the forecast was, although a little bit below that. we've been very lucky as far as how many have come towards the u.s. most have been steered out to sea or stayed below the south because of the strong jet stream and kind of a road block set up in the atmosphere. we'll take that and hopefully our luck will continue through the rest of this hurricane season. showers across parts of the northeast continues to be unsettled weather from new york to boston. boston, looks like eastern new england is where most of the heavier rain is. chilly across the south, parts of kentucky and tennessee in frost advisories. temperatures close to the 30s. and still unsettled out west. we showed you video out of phoenix, let's show you video out of the sierras where it was coming down yesterday as far as snow. some of the higher elevations seeing a few inches of snow. there's el dorado, california.

and we're getting to the time of year where snow piles up in the mountains and hopefully we can get rid of these tropical storms. at least, we will officially over the next month and a half. but we still have to deal with them from time to time, this one doesn't look like it's going to bother us. john and kiran, back up to you. >> no hurricanes hit land in the united states. >> very lucky considering how active it's been. we'll take it. >> thanks, rob. and we're following your top stories minutes away, including eyewitness to a mauling. this couple happened to be rolling when they were at a circus show in the ukraine and that lion went on the attack. another one joined them. they're going to tell us what it was like to be there. >> what's interesting is that was the second attack of that performance. and more napping less yapping. cell phones on planes becoming more of a reality. those stories and more coming up at the top of the hour. the power and versatilityof six. packed into one. craftsman. trust. in your hands.

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it's really curby. >> reporter: those are a few of inhome treasures dan phillips is building from trash. >> i suspected one could build a home out of the landfill. >> reporter: now he's turning that hunch into a business. his wife lends a creative hand. but clients don't have much say. the designs grow primarily from the building materials. it's a creative equation that keeps costs way down. phillips who has to have all of his projects approved by state inspectors builds exclusively for artist, low-income families, and single moms and encourages many of his tenants to be to help construct their future homes. >> you protect it because you know how many times you hit your thumb and how dirty and sweaty you got. >> reporter: christy stevens and her two sons helped remodel this 900-square-foot home, now they're living in it paying $368 a month. >> i'm proud of this work.

>> reporter: ed lavandera, cnn. >> $368 a month, that's good. >> that's amazing. >> for a whole house. yeah, cool stuff. top stories coming your way after the break. stay with us. because of one word, imagination and reality have merged. because of one word, a new generation-- a fifth generation-- of fighter aircraft has been born. because of one word, america's air dominance for the next forty years is assured. that one word... is how.

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you need the patch. (announcer) icy hot patches. targeted no-mess relief. icy to dull pain. hot to relax it away. pain's no match for the icy hot patch. ahead on "american morning". lion attack caught on tape. eyewitnesss to a mauling at the circus join us live. hate debate. >> i'm sorry that they raise

their son for the devil and hell. >> is a soldier's funeral off limits? and trading places? >> until they switch jobs and not out of the question. >> whether hillary clinton could join the ticket in 2012. and is that still the dream team? on the most news in the morning. good morning to you. it's 7:00 here in new york. glad you're with us on this wednesday. it's october 6th. i'm kiran chetry. >> good morning to you, i'm john roberts. thank you so much for being with us. here are this morning's top stories. the president of chile now saying that those 33 miners could be rescued as soon as this weekend as crews drill within a few hundred feet of where they're trapped. they could be breaking through within the next couple of days. we're live in chile at the san jose mine where optimism is actually running high this morning. and a developing story right

now. western target's under attack in yemen. confirming an attack involving one of the vehicles this morning. they also got confirmation from the french ministry of foreign and european affairs that a french national was shot and killed in yemen. they say this victim was than employee in the company. also, two people were wounded when a gunman opened fire at the offices of an australian oil and gas company. we're following the latest as we get new information on this. and we'll bring it to you. a temporary hiring is picking up. there are 22% more temp jobs now than there were this time last year. the bad news, permanent jobs are stagnant. analysts say there's much too much fear for companies to fill full-time positions. well, it could be a matter of days before rescue crews bore through the underground chamber where 33 chilean miners have been trapped for two months now. hopes are higher at the san jose mine. three tunnels are being drilled

through 700,000 tons of collapsed rock. and one of those tunnels is now within a few hundred feet of the trapped miners prompting chile's president declaring their rescue "imminent." live in chile this morning. and we heard that things are looking up there today. what's the atmosphere? what's the sense there today, karl? >> reporter: it certainly is amongst the family members who have been up here on the surface in a camp -- this camp just around us here that is called camp hope. it's a tent village where the relatives have been living. and their hopes are certainly up. they believe that the breakthrough could come in just a few days. and their loved ones will be brought back to the surface. the president's statement that the rescue is imminent that it could happen before the 15th has alarmed some of the rescue workers. they're saying, just look at the technical problems. this isn't a home run yet.

it could still be a few more days. yet it might take us into the second half of october. so no full agreement on the time line, but certainly the sense now that this is the beginning of the end and those 33 miners could be home soon, john. >> so when they do finally drill through that rock and put in that liner pipe and get ready to bring them up in that rescue chamber, there could be some problems because some of the miners were fairly overweight and that's a very, very small chamber they have to fit in. can they all make it back up to the surface through that bore hole? >> it is going to be a tight fit. 21 1/2 inches across. that's the kind of width that these miners will have to fit inside this capsule, which has been dubbed the phoenix capsule because the government says this is the capsule that will give these miners a rebirth of sorts. but there are two points here. first of all, in the first 17 days these miners were trapped and feared dead, had no contact from the outside world. each miner had the to survive on

just four cans of tuna. that's one can of tuna every four days. and so in that period, the miners lost up to 30 pounds each. so of course they slimmed down there. and since then, the medics have been very conscious that they're going to have to fit in a very small space. and so from the surface, via fiberoptic tube that has been passed down the 2,300 feet down to the mine, every miner every day has been having a personal exercise routine set out by a personal trainer on the surface. so that will help them slim down, as well, john. >> good news out of there for a change. karl penhaul for us this morning. karl, thanks. now to a cnn security watch. talking with the enemy. this morning, the "washington post" is reporting that secret high-level meetings are underway between hamid karzai's government in afghanistan and the taliban. sources tell the paper that the taliban is very serious about finding a way out and ending the war and that the people at the

table speak for afghan's taliban leader mohammed omar. ivan watson with the latest from kabul this morning. >> reporter: like so many things involving afghanistan, pakistan, and the taliban militants who operate on both sides of the two country's borders, reports about these alleged negotiations are quite murky. here is what we know. according to a number of afghan high-level government sources, they're describing this as a "nongovernmental conference between afghan and pakistani figures." we know some former afghan government officials and current officials have been involved in the talks taking place in kabul in recent days. one of the participants, according to one afghan source, is a former taliban official who served time in guantanamo bay in the detention center and has reconciled with the afghan government in recent years and lives here in kabul. however, afghan government sources denying that the taliban is actively participating in these negotiations.

now, the u.s. embassy here is also denying any involvement in these negotiations. they have stipulated that for some settlement to be reached they have three conditions. that this be an afghan-led settlement process with the taliban, that taliban militants renounce al qaeda, and that they abide by the constitution. meaning equal rights for both afghan men and women. now, the afghan government has been trying for years to woo some taliban commanders over to the side of the government to lay down their weapons with rather unspectacular results. it's really been seen as a failure by many observers here. one afghan analyst is describing these reports of talks as basically talks about talks. if something is taking place, it's just the beginning here towards some kind of negotiated settlement. and certainly this has been the bloodiest year yet of the nine-year afghan conflict. the highest number of casualties for u.s. and nato forces on the ground here in afghanistan.

certainly some kind of negotiation process would be better than bullets. ivan watson, cnn, kabul. >> and as ivan was referring to, a lot of complications for nato troops. ask right now one of them is this road block that continues to complicate things on the battlefield. dozens more nato supply trucks were torched on the pakistani side of the border. they're being described as sitting ducks as pakistan closed the border in protest of a nato air strike. the initial report from nato on that air strike is due out today. an environmental disaster in hungary, a wave of toxic sludge sweeping through villages, killing at least four people and injuring more than 100 others. government officials declaring a state of emergency after hungary's worst ever chemical accident. it was caused by a dam that burst at an aluminum processing plant. and a man hunt is underway this morning for a gunman after

a deadly shooting spree in illinois and indiana. one person was killed, three others wounded. that suspect is described as mentally unstable. police say he stopped his pickup truck in rural out of the way spots in states. both of the states randomly asking people questions about bees and that opening fire. to the most politics in the morning at eight minutes past the hour. there's talk this morning about the obama/clinton winning ticket in 2012. here's what bob woodward told john king yesterday when asked about the possibility that hillary clinton and joe biden would actually swap roles in the administration. >> president obama needs some of the women, latinos, retirees that she did so well with during the 2008 primaries. and so they switched jobs. and not out of the question, the other interesting question is

hillary clinton could run in her own right in 2016 and be younger than ronald reagan when he was elected president. >> despite the chatter, david axelrod is quoted in the "washington post" saying there is absolutely nothing to it. coming up at 7:25 eastern, ed henry is going to join us live to talk more about it. >> something intriguing to think about, though, this political season. >> yeah, as ed said, back in 2004, they said oh, is president bush going to get rid of dick cheney? is he out the door? >> didn't happen. but there have been plenty of examples of presidents getting rid of their running mates and going with somebody else for a second term. let's get a quick check of our morning headlines. what's it looking like? >> i just got a tornado warning in, which is pretty rare this time of morning and out of arizona. we've been showing you dramatic pictures. there is a tornado warning out for verde village.

if you live near that city, south of flagstaff. certainly stay inside and get in the center of your home. if you want a feel for what kind of weather they've been enduring the past couple of days, take a look at this. out of phoenix yesterday afternoon, coming down like bandits here. and that reporter getting out and -- >> hail is falling like bullets now. >> yeah, taking the bullets for the team there. we did have reports of hail over an inch in diameter. that'll certainly put a welt on the forehead and maybe damage on the windshield. and obviously some street flooding there. and judging from what we've seen out of arizona this morning, we're in for more of that action, i think, later on today as well as parts of the east coast. a similar set-up. rain will stay around this area of low pressure. the country kind of bookended by two areas of stubborn unsettled weather. and that will continue to be the case for new england and boston.

damp and dreary right now. talk more about that plus -- the tropics. we have a subtropical depression to speak about in the eastern caribbean in about 30 minutes. john, kiran? >> look at that fella in phoenix and wonder what the hail was he thinking? >> exactly. >> that's got to hurt. well, thanks, rob. >> thanks, rob. the ukrainian circus act goes horribly wrong. we'll talk with the i-reporter who trapped the shocking scene on tape. also, one of the occasicased by the supreme court. we're going to be joined by jeff toobin weighing in. it's 11 minutes after the hour.

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♪ 14 minutes past the hour. welcome back to the most news in the morning. there's been a situation going on at the port of houston that's really tangling up shipments. dozens of cargo ships have been waiting there. this is the country's second busiest port. because it's been closed since sunday. what happened was a barge that was being pushed by a tow vessel

rammed into an electrical tower. that left the power lines hanging over the channel. they didn't think it was safe for the big ships to pass under it. so they shut it down. coast guard hopes to have the port back up and running today. also, the white house is getting a little bit of a green makeover. not the color, but, you know, environmentally speaking. solar panels and a solar hot water heater will soon be installed at the white house. officials say it reflects the president's commitment to clean energy. former president jimmy carter installed solar panels on the roof during his term. they were removed during the reagan administration. president bush also installed some solar panels on other buildings on the white house grounds. john? 15 minutes after the hour. to a big test of free speech coming up today in the supreme court at the united states that issue the right to protest at military funerals. the controversial westborough baptist church denouncing

homosexuality. they carry signs, make a scene. well, one father fought back. he won and was awarded millions of dollars in damages but that verdict was thrown out. and now the case has gone to the supreme court where it will be heard this morning. our senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin joins us now. this is a really, really interesting case. we're talking about the 2008 funeral of lance corporal matt snyder. members of the baptist church protest. his father albert snyder took it to court and it's an interesting argument between right of privacy at something like a funeral and the right of religious freedom. >> freedom for the thought that we hate. and that seems like an apt description of this case. i mean, what this tiny church does is so hateful, is so awful. imposing on these families at this tremendously vulnerable sad time in their lives. but they are engaging in political speech of a kind. they are talking about views on national issues, and that is the

kind of speech that the courts generally protect. so it's a very hard case. >> we saw on some of the video there that they carry signs like god hates america, priests rape boys, you're going to hell, god hates you. their argument is that they're protesting against broad and unspecified actions of the military. but matt snyder's father says, no, you're aiming those at my son. >> right. and the court generally allows restrictions on speech that doesn't refer to content in particular. if they say, no protests within 100 yards of funerals, that is a rule upheld by the court. the problem here is that it seems to be that this damage award was for speech that was general that was not -- that was not tarted at targeted at one family in particular. it was about national issues, and that's why the appeals court overturned the judgment against this church. >> you mentioned funerals.

the venue here is important. they will be considering how much privacy someone should be afforded at something like a funeral. this is not like a political rally or if there would be some sort of public meeting and people protest. funeral is a very, very private event and the court will take that into considering. >> they certainly will. and look, the justices are human beings too. you have one extremely very -- sympathetic party, the family here. this church, to call it a church is sort of an exaggeration. it's really just one extended family. one curiosity about this case is that the lawyer representing the church is the daughter of the founder. so it will likely be a very personal argument in court today. so, you know, i think the court is going to struggle with this. because these are two values. privacy and freedom of speech, which are very deeply ingrained in the court's traditions. >> you mentioned this. and it's obvious that it's such a time of pain for these

families be families burying a loved one who was killed in combat or in matt snyder's case, it was a non-combat vehicle accident. but you can imagine the trauma these families are going through. and then to have protesters coming up with inside of the funeral. what reason do members of this tiny church give for interrupting these solemn moments? >> you're asking me to articulate what is to me an incomprehensible situation. they're basically saying soldiers are dying because america is an immoral place. that's as logical a description i can come up with. frankly it doesn't make any sense to me. the problem s one of the interesting things about the first amendment and the supreme court is it is often very unpopular groups who make the law. whether it's anarchists after world war i, people who wouldn't salute the flag during world war

ii, people who burned the flag in the 1980s. these have never been very popular groups, but the court has often said this is why we have the first amendment to protect unpopular groups and certainly it's hard to imagine anyone more unpopular than the west borough baptist church. >> you think they might want to do it at the capitol steps or the pentagon. i guess they know they'll get noticed. >> and they have. >> jeff toobin, thanks. kiran? it's 20 minutes past the hour. still to come. annoyance at 35,000 feet. one airline, at least, moving closer to allowing cell phone calls on flights. so what are the chances you're going to be sitting next to that guy? also, find out why breast cancer survivors are so upset with a handful of companies who have actually donated thousands of dollars to breast cancer research. they say it may come down to bad taste. it's 20 minutes after the hour. , the first self-injectable r.a. medicine you take just once a month. taken with methotrexate,

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23 1/2 minutes after the hour. minding your business this morning. now may be a good time to invest

in noise-cancelling headphones. because cell phones on planes are coming. singapore airlines, which offers an 18-hour flight to newark has announced that it may soon allow passengers to make and receive text messages and phone calls over their wi-fi system. federal regulations still ban the use of cell phones in the united states. well, the results are in for the first round of crash tests. under a new rating system and tougher federal guidelines. all of the vehicles were given a single rating of one to five stars based on front and side impact and rollovers. most of the 33 cars tested earned four stars, but only two, the bmw 5 series and the hyundai senada. single-use disposable shopping bags is working too well. since january, d.c. residents have been charged 5 cents for every disposable bag they take from the grocery store.

officials were counting on $3.6 million in cash revenue, but they're only e seeing a third of that because shoppers are using 50% fewer bags. >> which one was it? was the goal to do right environmentally or make money? >> no, it was to make money. >> well -- >> under the guise of doing right environmentally. >> we showed them. we took the money. >> if you're going to take time to clip coupons and be charged 5 cents a bag? forget it. some are angry with alcoholic companies after they launched pink campaigns in support of breast cancer. survivors are saying it's hypocritical since the national cancer institute say that even moderate drinking increases breast cancer risk. one charity announces it's no longer accepting gifts and donations from alcohol providers. >> imagine that. it didn't happen in 2008, but could secretary of state hillary clinton join president obama on the ballot in 2012? our ed henry is on top of the

story here with an early look at it. >> well, bob woodward is saying this so-called dream ticket may be alive. but is there something solid to this? or is it bob woodward daydreaming? sure i'd like to diversify my workforce, i just wish that all of the important information was gathered together in one place. [ printer whirs ] done. ♪ thanks. do you work here? not yet. from tax info to debunking myths, the field guide to evolving your workforce has everything you need. download it now at thinkbeyondthelabel.com.

welcome back. the most politics in the morning now at 28 minutes past the hour. was the dream ticket that never came to be, but the buzz is building that secretary of state

hillary clinton could become president obama's running mate in two years. >> our ed henry is live at the white house. and certainly it's a lot of fun to speculate about things like this. even with two years until the election. where is all this really coming from? >> well, it's coming from bob woodward. and he just wrote this book "obama's wars" and obviously has a strong track record in terms of his reporting. and he's got this book out that basically the obama administration has largely embraced, at least in private has said the book shows him to be -- the president to be a strong commander in chief. and so now when he goes on john king usa last night and basically suggests that there may be this so-called dream ticket in 2012, it's going to make people listen. but listen closely to how he phrases it. i think it's going to make some people wonder how strong this really is. >> you know the talk in town. a lot of people think if the president's a little weak going into 2012, he'll have to do a switch and run with hillary clinton as his running mate. in all the conversations, in the political conversations and the

asides you're doing in political research. does some of that come up? >> it's on the table. and some of hillary clinton's advisers see it as a real possibility in 2012. president obama needs some of the women, latinos, retirees that she did so well with during the 2008 primaries. and so they switch jobs. >> if you listen very closely there, bob woodward attributing it to essentially hillary clinton advisers think she might make a good president. it's a lot different than him saying that advisers of the president think he wants to do this. of much, much different. and i would also note that when you look at this in context. you think back to the first bush administration, there was a dump quayle movement, the second administration with a dump cheney movement. and in this case you have a vice president in joe biden that appears to have a strong working

relationship with the president. and you don't really hear from liberals dump biden, you hear quite the opposite. >> no question that biden would probably like a job like secretary of state if they were to switch. what are the president's add vi advisering saying about this? >> somebody throws an idea out there and it's going to gather steam on its own. but the fact of the matter is on the flip side of that, as you noted, joe biden originally did want to be secretary of state not vice president. i think, though, after spending a couple of years on the job, he seems to have taken to it and it seems unlikely he would want to take what many see as a step down. and i think also, though, they feel inside the white house this is a good working relationship, why would they mess that up? >> but looking ahead to 2016, does it help if hillary clinton would indeed want to run at that point if she was doing it as the vice president versus coming off secretary of state? >> you're right, kiran.

and that's one of the thingst that things that will keep this alive, at least as speculation. they're going to maybe push from the left or some sort of a shake-up. and the fact is, you know, as john was noting last hour, there have been various c income n and other polls suggesting hillary clinton is still a very popular figure in democratic circles. some democrats in a hypothetical match-up would support her over president obama in 2012. that's far off. we should note, but clearly if you have secretary of state under your belt and then vice president she would be a strong contender in 2016. it's so far off, we haven't even gotten to the 2010 election. talking about 2012 or 2016 seems very distant at this point. >> all just talk at this point. for reminder of the latest political news, go to cnnpolitics.com. all this week, we've been focusing on the bullying crisis. in fact, a third of children in this country are either victims of a bully or admit to bullying

others. what is a parent to do if a child's being bullied at school? >> telling them to walk away or tell a teacher is simply not enough. many parents believe the problem is so pervasive that children need to learn how to defend themselves. casey wian went to a class to learn self-defense. >> good morning john, kiran. some academics say that bullying is on the rise nationally. others say it only seems that way because the media's paying more attention to the issue. but in one class we visited, there is no debate that these students are not likely to be victims of bullies. >> listen to me, hamburger head. this is my school, leave your hamburger at home next time. yes, good, tackle, tackle, tackle. >> 9-year-old trevor robertson is one of 60 students in a class that says it can bully proof kids. >> very nice. >> trevor had to transition into

a different school and he had a hard time fitting in with some of the kids. >> good, trevor. >> reporter: now trevor's earned a new stripe on his belt and new confidence. >> very good job, you guys. >> i was at soccer camp. an older kid, he was kind of picking on me and then he tried to push me. so i got his arm and i put it behind his back and i asked him if he would stop and he said yes, and he didn't bug me. >> redirect. lay down. >> reporter: at the gracie academy just outside of los angeles, students learn that subduing a bully is the absolute last report and they should never go looking for trouble. >> if the bully's aggressing, harassing you, talk with confidence. eye contact, stand strong, what to say. if the bully still persists beyond that, you have to tell the teacher and get the parents involved, get this principal involved, get the school administrator involved. should he punch me in the face?

>> no. >> should he tackle me? >> no. >> we give the child the resources to defend themselves without ever becoming violent. neutralize the threat and end it. >> nice, tackle. >> michelle was bullied when she started kindergarten last year. >> she'd come home with her pants kind of like dirty, her sunglasses kind of broken. so when we asked, what happened here? she really said i just fell. didn't want to say anything else. but then i noticed kind of the attitude changed. okay. it's kind of like angry. >> get off of me. >> does she have any problems with bullying anymore? >> actually, no. she kind of knows what to do. that's a good thing. >> as part of this year-long class, children are also taught responsibility, respect, citizensh citizenship, and manners. >> if you want something say please, if they give it to you, say thank you. if you don't want something, what do you say, mark? no, thank you. it's the only way. >> we're teaching these kids to

fight fire with water. it's the humble approach. and again, it can't be more emphasized that the more the child learns how to defend him or herself, the more confident they become. and the less likely they are to be targeted by a bully. >> the academy has heard complaints from schools with those with zero tolerance for violence. as a parent i asked how he would advise my son. >> i don't want him to go against the school, but i want him to protect himself. >> it makes sense why the school says that. you throw a punch or kick someone or respond to a fight, everyone's in trouble, everyone gets suspended. the problem is the bullies violate the rules and the kids who are the victims now of the abuse, the violation of the rules are too scared of the policy to stand up for themselves. >> he stresses the goal is to avoid conflict by giving kids confidence. >> thanks for coming, guys.

>> the academy says that it can even work for kids with special needs. we met one little boy there with a mild form of autism whose father described him as a former bully magnet. they said he's had no problems with school since he's taken the classes. >> is that because they have a different confidence about them that sort of makes a bully think twice? or because they've had to get into some sort of physical altercation? >> no, it's all about confidence, they say. when kids learn to look other kids in the eye and project an air of self-confidence, bullies are going to stay away from them. that's the key. they know how to handle themselves if the need arises, but the key is to make sure that that need never does arise. and that is through confidence. >> interesting stuff. casey wian, thanks so much for that report. at 8:40 eastern, we'll be talking more about this issue with jeff gardere and paul callan. we got a ton of e-mails yesterday. a lot of people saying i'm not

supposed to humiliate a bully, allow my kid to be attacked and do nothing about it. many people were very upset. so we're going to ask both of them, expert who is have dealt with this situation, both from the psychological standpoint but also the potential legal standpoint to how to best support your child. and more than one in four high school students in this country engage in binge drinking. elizabeth cohen breaking down a new cdc report for us. it's been so cold in the south, it actually snowed in tennessee. rob will be here to show us the morning travel forecast after the break. it's 30 minutes past the hour. how new is the new edge with myford touch? well you could never do this before. or this. or this. you definitely couldn't do this. play kate's mix. or this. temperature, 72 degrees. say hello to the new edge with myford touch.™

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how about this? you think it feels cold even across the south? the mid south. it's snowing in the smokies, my friends. southeast of knoxville, tennessee. a little bit higher up in elevation. some of these get to be h4,000, 5,000, 6,000 feet. and enough to build some snow men. good morning, everybody, we have frost advisories up for kentucky, parts of the tennessee valley. 40 in nashville, 36 in crossville, 31 in monticello. so it is chilly. all around the backside of this low which continues to bring unsettled weather across the northeast. especially eastern new england and boston. you're getting the moderate to steady rainfall right now. that's where it's going to be the most wet.

also out west, southern california, parts of arizona. sierra nevada seeing some snow, and phoenix just got clobbered yesterday with some heavy thunderstorms. now we're seeing some thunderstorms develop, which have spawned some tornado warnings. camp verde to cottonwood. and this is a radar-indicated tornado moving to the north about 45 miles an hour. this is stuff we're watching on top of the subtropical depression, john and kiran, which is forecast to become a full-on tropical storm. and move away from the u.s. that's the good news there. lots going on weather wise. toss it back to you in new york. >> looks like it's moving away from everything, which is good. he took his family to the circus, but didn't expect to see this. a lion tamer getting mauled by his animals. we'll talk to the cnn i-reporter who captured it on videotape. 42 minutes after the hour.

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welcome back to the most news in the morning. it's 46 minutes past the hour right now. a day at the circus took a terrifying turn for one family. we first showed you this video yesterday. it shows a trainer getting mauled by lions during a live performance. it was a circus in the ukraine. >> the video was sent to us by doug shepard and his wife mosha as an i-report. thanks so much for being with us. what we see on the video and we heard you describing some of this yesterday, which is why we wanted to have you on today is actually the second part of an attack by those lions against the trainer.

tell us how this all unfolded. >> well, we're in the second act of the circus, and the lion show had just started about two minutes, 2 1/2 minutes before the video starts. one lion did a trick on a trapeze. and he wasn't excited about it. attacked the trainer in the leg fairly severely and that resulted in people hosing down the lion and extra handler getting in the cage with a pole. so when the video starts, you see him limping around in the middle of this very tense situation. >> that's amazing. because they continued on with the show, or did it appear they were sort of trying to get the lions back into an enclosure? >> well, from the video, you can see the trainer kind of pointing toward the cages and where they're trying to get the lions to go into. we thought viewing it, you know, that was horrible, but now, you know, everything will be calm, and then we can exit. but as you can see, it just

escalated. >> it's pretty amazing when you think of it that he's still in the ring there hobbling around after a lion had bit him in the leg. you said it was a fairly severe attack. can you describe that a little further? >> well, it's -- when we saw him limping after that bite that happened, i think at that moment, everybody stiphoped that they would keep it under control. but once they ran on him and grabbed on his arms and started pulling on his side, i think that was the moment everyone stood up and wondering do they leave now or wait a few seconds? >> it didn't really look like there was much separating the audience from the actual ring there. doug, describe what happened after everyone realized they can't control these two lions. and it's already turned on its trainer. what do you do as an audience member? were you trying to run out? >> well, the rules are in the circus, it's a one-ring circus, no one can stand up during the wild animal performance.

so everyone's told to sit down. well, it's going bad. so people are starting to get up, move around. and we were wondering ourselves. we've got a 5-year-old and a 3-year-old. trying to cover their eyes, when do we get out? and then as it escalated and moved toward the little net door, that's when we were starting to get a little concerned for our own safety. >> wow. and how much protection is there in a one-ring circus like that between the ring and where the lions where where those wild animals are and where you are as spectators? >> well, there's a mat that you can't see. and they've been reporting that the net itself has wires in it and it's very safe and it goes all the way around the ring and you can't see well. the problem is that there is that netting across a little aluminum pole gate. and on the video, you can see them opening it and closing it, letting people in and out. and there's nothing between the

lions and the audience at that point. >> and so we got word that the trainer is okay. he's taken to the hospital, reportedly had to undergo surgery. they're sort of down playing his injuries at this point. we're told that's typical in the ukraine. ukraine. they don't want to say that the worst happened because they want people to continue going to the scircus but would you go back? >> well, definitely they're going to be wild animals, i don't think i'm ready to go back. our son did say that he would like to go back to the circus if the animals, people are not with them. >> we're ready for the performing chickens and the goat performance. >> all right. well, you know, there are clowns at a circus for a reason. all right. thanks for joining us, folks. >> doug and masha from the ukraine, thank you. ten minutes until the top of the hour. its great. i eat anything that i want.

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♪ i want bourbon ♪ ♪ i want scotch ♪ i want beer 54 minutes past the hour. some disturbing news of teens and young adults in the country binge drink. >> when you look at the numbers, elizabeth, they're pretty stunning. >> they really are. i mean, i haven't been in high school in a long time but they made my eyes pop. let's look at the results of the cdc study. they found that 42% of high

schoolers drink and of those two thirds say that in the month they have been on a binge drinking episode. two thirds of those students binge drink and 33 million men and women, adults, also binge drink. now, if you're wondering, what is binge drinking? for a woman, consuming four or more alcoholic beverages or for men, five or more alcoholic beverages over the two course of two hours. that is considered binge drinking. >> who does it more in terms of the sexes? >> if you look at the statistics, we come up with a typical bingee drinker. whether a high school student or an adult is male, white or hispanic and when we're looking at adults, makes more than $75,000 a year which i found interesting. i wasn't aware of an association between how much money you make and your tendency to binge drink

but apparently there is. >> of course, we know that the immediate affects. obviously, drunk, fall down, throw up and wake up in your vomit the next day and can have serious consequences. >> i like the first list you have there and the other is car accident and another one is unprotected sex with a germy stranger and other consequences short term. long term, consequences like liver disease, high blood pressure, stroke. you know, it may seem like i went out and got really drunk last night. you do that over and over again over the course of several years or a lifetime, it has an affect long term. >> in high school and college, typically, thought of of times of experimentation, frat parties, on and on, you tend to think that most people leave that behind. are you more likely to have

continuing alcohol problems as you get older or do others move on and mature? >> i think there is some evidence if you're a heavy drinker as a young person you are more likely to have alcohol problems compared to someone that didn't drink as a young person but clearly people that drink when they're young and move out of it and move on. for those people what you're concerned about is short-term problems. a car accident or getting a sexually transmitted disease. for them, that's the worry. >> all right. so for high school students, no alcohol before the age of 21 and for adults everything in moderation, particularly those germy stranger's th. >> that's right. >> stay with us. pass pass re you use sugar. even in cooking and baking. sweet! [ female announcer ] splenda® granulated with fiber.

it's wednesday, the 6th of october. thank you for joining us this morning. i'm john roberts. >> i'm kiran chetry. thank you for joining us. reports this morning of secret high-level talks, negotiations under way between the taliban and the hamid karzai government in afghanistan. talks that may lead to an end in the fighting. we are live in kabul with the latest. remix of election. a ticket with president obama and secretary of state hillary clinton? well, according to reporter bob woodward, it's on the table. we are live at the white house with details. this is a story that doesn't seem real except that it happened. a firefighters in one tennessee town refused to put out a family's home fire that was burning their home to the ground

because the owners failed to pay a $75 fire protection fee that is required. the town's mayor standing by the decision. we're going to talk to the man that lost his home in a moment. talking with the enemy, this morning "the washington post" reporting that the afghan government is negotiating with the taliban. secret high-level meetings are under way. >> sources telling the paper that the taliban is very serious about finding a way out and ending the war. chris lawrence is live for us in washington. tell us more about what perhaps may be precipitating the talks. for so long it used to be there was no debate. as long as u.s. and allies in afghanistan the taliban was not going to come to the table. >> reporter: yeah. you're exactly right, kiran. we have seen these talks flare up before and now seems to be at the most serious point and could be a combination of factors. it could be a more openness on the part of the obama administration and the u.s. government to accept or to take

seriously some of the negotiations. on the other hand, it could be that the taliban leadership is facing a lot of pressure at this point. we know that there have been increased drone strikes on certain elements of the taliban on the pakistani side of the border. but the key thing about this report, i had a talk with a senior defense official, you know, a few months back. sort of the last time some of this kind of started to come out and he said the key to any sort of negotiation is the fact that there is no one taliban. we throw around the name the taliban. these are really two to three very distinct, separate groups with separate leadership. and he said, you know, any time you start talking about negotiation, two big questions to him jumped out. one, are you negotiating with all of the groups? and two, does the leadership have the ability to impose any settleme settlement? >> yesterday it was mentioned at the pentagon briefing that

general petraeus has admitted that the taliban is negotiating with the afghan government. let's listen to the spokesman and the response to that question. >> given the fact that general petraeus has been speaking to this issue, perhaps he and his spokesman would want to elaborate on it. i think what we have seen, michael, you travel with us. you heard this firsthand from general petraeus when you all spoke with him then is we have seen high level outreach by some members of the taliban to the afghan government. >> so chris, what could this possibly mean for the military mission there? >> reporter: well, if you look at what general petraeus said, he also -- the way he characterized it was in its very early stages. he said i wouldn't call it real negotiations but more like really discussions. obviously, the reason we even care about this is because of

the 100,000 u.s. troops. that's why we care about when's going on with the political process there in afghanistan. there are possibilities including, you know, the u.s. plan to start turning over certain districts back over to the afghan government. if some of these were negotiated and the taliban resistance dropped off in the areas, certain areas could be handed back maybe on an accelerated basis. that would allow some u.s. troops to pull back from some of those areas and concentrate on areas with fierce resistance. >> all right. >> chris lawrence thanks so much. nato trucks torched again on this morning. fuel burning out of control. after gunmen fired on the convoy. it is the third major attack on supplies in the past week. the trucks sitting ducks. nowhere to go since pakistan choked off the supply lines. pakistan closed the border in protest of a nato air strike allegedly killing three of its

soldiers. the initial report on the attack from nato is out today. there's buzz and it's actually getting louder about secretary of state hillary clinton whether or not she would be on the ballot with president obama in 2012. well, appearing on "john king usa" bob woodward said that the idea is quote, on the table. >> woodward getting the information from a specific place. when you consider the source, it might not be unusual for him to be saying what he is saying. >> reporter: well, you are absolutely right, john. that's important to note which is the fact you listen closely to what bob woodward was saying to john king last night, he was essentially attributing it to advisers to hillary clinton who think she might be a great president some day. that's a big shock and i can tell you that while there's a lot of speculation of democrats outside this building, it's not something that we really see from the president or vice

president. in fact, i'm reading bob woodward's book right now and looks like from the book and the information bob woodward dug out there's a good working relationship between the two men and unlikely to push biden ahead for clinton but listen to how bob woodward phrased it to john king. >> you know the talk in town. a lot of people think if the president is weak in 2012, he'll run with hillary clinton as the running mate. in all of these conversations in all the political conversations and asides you have doing research, sometimes political asides, things like that come up? >> it is on the table. some of hillary clinton's advisers see it as a real possibility in 2012. president obama needs some of the women, latinos, retirees that she did so well with during the 2008 primaries and so they switch jobs. >> reporter: well, white house

spokesman robert gibbs trying to take the notion off the table, if you will. i spoke to him in the last few moments telling me no one in the white house is discussing this as a possibility. so there you have it. i mean, bottom line here is they have said here repeatedly that they're looking ahead to the only election is 2010. just less than a month away. they're not looking two years down the road an they think here inside the white house that the speculation is silly. john, kiran? >> she does, though, have a lingering reservoir of support when you look at the latest polls. 37% of democrats said they would vote for her in a direct matchup with president obama in 2012. obviously, this administration is feeling some frustration. they have really felt like they're beat up from the left. hearing anything about shake-ups in the coming months? >> reporter: no doubt of staff shake-ups, turnover. some of that you know from covering the white house is natural. people move on. a lot of these people inside

this white house have not just been working two years. they have been working four years nonstop going back to what was essentially a two-year presidential campaign and next person to look who's very likely to leave would be the national security adviser. retired general jim jones very likely to leave right after the elections by the end of the year. someone like tom donald and the deputy very likely to be in line to replace him and seeing staff moves in the days ahead and trying to pump new energy and new life into the administration, john. >> ed henry for us this morning at the white house, thanks so much. >> reporter: thank you. vice president biden known for the sharp wit and comments yesterday were no exception. biden tells the crowd democrats know how to budget the balance and quote if i hear one more republican telling me about balancing the budget i'm going to strangle them. biden added to the press, that's a figure of speech. president obama kept his cool in a speech at "fortune" magazine's most powerful women's

summit in d.c. check out what happened when the presidential seal became, well, shall we say unsealed from the podium. >> engineering and math. we cannot sustain -- whoops! was that my -- oh goodness. that's all right. all of you know who i am. [ applause ] but i'm sure there's somebody back there that's really nervous right now. >> did the republican presidential hopefuls for 2012 see that as a sign? well, the seal was retrieved after the speech and by the way organizers say that the president earned the podium considering the cabinet and supreme court appointments. >> probably he said that because do you remember the president bush with the locked door trying to get out?

sometimes the accidental moment that is are seared in people's minds. >> i think first time for but fallen off for other presidents. >> just velcro? stick it on there. >> like this. >> if you haven't put it on solidly, off it comes. rob marciano is here for us. i'll talk about this, what you said, a tornado watch or warning. very unusual to come across your desk in this time of morning especially in arizona? >> yeah. two unusual things happening right now. that is severe thunderstorm watch at this hour across arizona and tornado warning in a second. at least radar indicated a. idea visually what the folks in phoenix were enduring yesterday afternoon. hail and flash flooding and wind damage and this reporter out in it. kind of taking a beating for the team. you don't get too much in the way of extreme weather like this in phoenix. they got out and kind of showed the viewers how it went down.

60-mile-a-hour winds in phoenix. and reports of -- some of the hailstones were upwards of an inch to two inches in diameter. how about that? north of phoenix right now, this tornado -- severe thunderstorm watch for a few hours. radar-indicated tornado warning for koconito valley and cottonwood, moving to the north at 45 miles per hour. so fast-moving storm individually but that low sits and spins out west. as does the one in the northeast. another day of unsettled weather. new york to boston with the most moderate, steady rainfall at this hour. trying to get this out of your hair in the next day and a half and get you to weather that should last quite nicely into the weekend. talk more about that extended forecast plus the subtropical depression in the eastern caribbean. we'll have the forecast track later on. john and kiran? >> a little ways to go before we

worry about it. thanks, rob. britain's prince williams a royal hero. in the first mission with the royal air force, he rescued a worker from a gas rig off of the coast of northwest england. he says he's happy to contribute to the unit. the 28-year-old prince is second in line to the british throne. she is still golden even at the age of 88 and betty white's name's is on everybody's lips encolluding this little guy. check him out. >> here we go. >> betty white. >> who is that? >> betty white. >> yeah. >> hi, betty. >> hello. hi. >> betty white with blond hair. >> she does, yeah. what do you think about her? >> she's really -- >> she is. >> betty white. betty white. betty white. betty white. betty white. >> there's got to be at least 86

years separating the two of them but he is just schmidten with her. >> so adorable. that kid. e67b share naded betty white. it's really funny. made a comeback accidentally as she told you with the snickers commercial and then the generations love her. >> there you go. we have to get them together there. >> so cute. i'd love to. well, this is a story that's pretty unbelievable, as well. you think if you call the fire department saying, hello, my house is burning down they'll help you put it out. right? not in a tennessee town if you didn't pay the $75-fire protection fee. we're going to be speaking with homeowner gene cranick. ♪

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welcome back to the most news in the morning. imagine this scenario. your home catches on fire so you frantically rush to the phone. you call the felt and then you're told no one's coming. it sounds crazy but for the cranick family of rural tennessee this really happened. firefighters of south fulton let their house burn down. probably wondering why. it is because they forgot to pay

a $75 fire protection fee that's required of rural homeowners if they want that fire protection. well, gene cranick joins us live this morning from what's left of his home in south fulton, tennessee. thank you for joining us in this very stressful time for you and your family. a lot of people hearing this story can't really believe it. tell us again what happened. >> well, i wasn't home at the time. my grandson was here and i understood that he burned some trash. and it was aerosol can blew up and set the grass on fire. and, of course, it just wept from the grass to the -- our shed and then from the shed to the house. and then went on from the south end of the house to the north end of the house. so -- and we called the fire

department. they told him they would be here in a little while. and they didn't show up. we called them back. they said they wasn't coming. some way my neighbor that joins here and got this corn field on fire. well, they wanted to come put it out but they had a tractor here and had it disked around and everything and put a little water on the fence row here or something. i don't know exactly what they done because i wasn't paying any attention to them. >> right. so what you're basically -- what you were basically saying is that they let your house burn because they realized you hadn't paid the $75 fire protection thing. is that a yearly thing and a due date and if you don't pay that that's it? >> yes, it's a yearly thing. they have waived that before. three years in december that my son's house up here caught on

fire. and we called them. and i said, they probably won't come because i didn't pay their fee but they came out and waived it and the chief said, you come and pay this tomorrow. well, paid it the next day and everything was fine. but we had everything out before they ever got there. so -- but this time we couldn't handle it. no way to handle wit a garden hose. >> so why do you think they let this happen? i mean, what? do you think they were trying to send a message, prove a point? why would they let your house burn? >> well, they wanted to prove a point. and this is the fourth house i understand that they have let do this. they stood back over south of here and sprayed water on this man's neighbor's house and let his burn down for the same thing.

and i understood the union city fire department also let a barn burn that had horses in it. so i don't know what their big reason is. even if they charged extra put this out, we would have paid it. >> right. >> and -- >> this is what they said. i want to get the mayor defended this decision saying that the city has a fire department that has to respond on a per call basis. they have to have this, you know, paid to spray i guess you could say in rural areas because if they didn't there would be no incentive to pay the fee and like trying to buy car insurance after an accident. do you buy any of what the mayor saying? >> no. i don't. because he's either told the story or somebody told the story that i refused to pay. i did not refuse to pay. i forgot it. if you can call that refusing, i guess that's all right.

but whichever way but i didn't refuse to pay. i refused my neighbor told him that they would pay the money to get the fire out. i told them whatever it took that i would pay. >> right. >> and another neighbor. >> the insurance agent said they would give them $500 if they would put it out. >> yes. >> and they said, no. can't do it after the fact, sorry. meanwhile, at least one bright spot is that you have insurance, right? they'll pay to help you rebuild. >> yes. yes. they're going to pay for the loss. not all -- i'll lose some. i don't have much but i didn't have enough insurance to cover everything. >> so sad situation. do you have any message for the town? >> well, the city, they got their policies to do. we have no say so in their

doings. so we can't vote. yay or nay, whatever they decide. raising it to 250, 300 or whatever, we got no say so. we will have to pay it. >> we're sorry for your loss. as we understand it, you also lost some pets in the fire. a cat and two dogs. really sad situation. gene cranick, coming to us from south fulton, tennessee, this morning. thanks so much for sharing your story. >> all right. thank you all. >> john? >> just the bad publicity would be worth more than 75 bucks to charge the guy. wow. what a story. 21 minutes after the hour. cell phones at 30,000 feet? which airline will allow texting, blackberries and cell phone service? hey, big spender, luxury retailer neiman-marcus with the book of fantasy gifts with gifts from $1.5 million down to $15. something for everyone. granula.

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25 minutes now after the hour. time for "minding your business." wall street eyeing a new magic number again. three months ago the dow strading below 10,000 now 11,000 back on the horizon. >> right now dow futures are also up and the nasdaq also up at the end of trading, 55 points. the white house getting a green makeover soon. solar panels and hot water heater installed officials say it reflects president obama's commitment to xleen energy. former president jimmy carter installed panels on the roof in his term and removed in the reagan administration. president bush installed some solar panels on other buildings

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reporting of negotiations taking place on a deal that would include some taliban figures in the afghan government, as well as a withdrawal of u.s. and nato troops. after being trapped for two months, 33 miners could be rescues in chile by next week. crews are within a few hundred feet of tunneling through. the president of chile calling a rescue, quote, imminent. talk of the obama/clinton dream ticket in 2012 getting louder. here's what "the washington post" reporter bob woodward told john king. >> president obama needs some of the women, latinos, retirees that she did so well with during the 2008 primaries and so they switch jobs and not out of the question the other interesting question is hillary clinton could run in her own right in

2016 and tbe younger than ronal reagan when he was elected president. >> despite the chatter, white house press secretary gibbs saying that no one in the white house discussing this as a possibility. >> we haven't heard from david axelrod and checking with him, too. there's a crisis this morning. one third of the children in this country are either victims of a bully or they are bullying someone else's kids. so what's a parent to do when a child is bullied at school? >> many people believe that children need to know how to defend themselves. they need to learn it because telling them to walk away or telling a teacher isn't always enough. well, our casey wian went to a jujitsu class teaching self defense and teaching to avoid violence if possible. he's live in los angeles this morning and i was fascinated when we first saw your story in the last hour and then the instructor teaches to fight fire with water. >> absolutely. you know, there's a debate

nationally, you mentioned, how many students are victims of bullies in schools. some academics say it is on the rise nationally. others say it just seems that way because the media is paying atngs btention but in this clas there's no doubt these students will not be victims of bullies. >> listen to me. hamburger head, this is my school. level your hamburger at home next time. yes! good. tackle, tackle, tackle nice. >> reporter: 9-year-old trevor rob robinson is in a class that says it can bully-proof kids. >> nice. >> he had to transition to a different school and had a hard time fitting in with some of the kids. >> reporter: now trevor's earned a new stripe on the belt and new confidence. >> very good job, you guys. >> i was at soccer camp and an older kid, he was kind of picking on me and then he tried to push me. so i got his arm and i put it behind his back and i asked him

if he would stop and he said, yes. and he didn't bug me. >> redirect. lay down. >> reporter: at the gracey jujitsu academy outside of los angeles students learn that physically subduing the bully is the absolute last resort. >> be respectful and calm. >> reporter: never look for trouble. >> talk to them with confidence and we teach them how to do that. eye contact. what to say f. the bully still persists, you have to tell the teacher and get the parents involved. get the principal involved, school administrators involved. should he punch me in the face? no. of course not. should he tackle me? no. if it's physical, we have the resources to defend themselves without being violent. end it. nice! good. >> reporter: michelle was bullied last year. >> she'd come home with her pants like dirty, her sunglasses kind of like broken. so when we asked, say, hey, what

happened here? she really said, i just fell. okay. she didn't want to say anything else but i noticed the kind of like the attitude change. okay? it's kind of like angry. >> get off of me. get off of me. >> reporter: does she have problems with bullying anymore? >> actually, no. she kind of like know what to do. that's a good thing. >> reporter: part of the yearlong class, children are taught responsibility, respect, citizenship and respect. >> if you want something, please. if they give it to you, thank you. if you don't, what do you say? no thank you. we're teaching fighting fire with water. it is the humble approach. it can't be more emphasized that the more a child learns how to defend him or herself the more confident they become and the more confident they become, the less likely they are to be targeted by the bully. >> reporter: they have heard complaints from schools with zero tolerance policies for violence even in self defense. as a parent, i asked gracie how

to advise my son. i don't want him to go against the school and protect himself. so how would you handle a situation like that? >> it makes sense. no one fights at all. throw a punch, kim someone or respond to a fight, everyone's in trouble. everyone gets suspended. the problem is, the bullies violate the rules and the kids who are the victims now of the abuse, the violation of the rules are too scared of the policy to stand up for themselves. >> reporter: he stresses the goal to avoid conflict giving kids confident. >> thank you for coming. >> thank you. >> reporter: gracie academy says jujitsu can work for kids with special needs. in our visit there, we met a little boy with a mild form of autism and father described him as a bully magnet and since the classes bullying is not a problem. john, kiran? >> i love the one kid that stuck to the kid like velcro but when you look at the kids, they're so

engaged in what they do. they really, you know, interested in learning the techniques? >> reporter: yeah. it really -- these instructors make the program fun for the kids but it's also very serious business and especially for a child who has been bullied, they're desperate. their parents are desperate for help and these programs give them the self confidence, that looking the bully in the eye that's going to keep the bully away. we know from walking on the street in a bad neighborhood, the last thing you do is look down at your feet and look like an easy target. they teach the kids the same thing. look the bully in the eye. project self confidence and not likely to run into problems. >> interesting stuff. casey, thank you so much. i took tae kwa do. >> were you bullied? >> i think we all were to a some degree. you take masht shl arts for confidence to avoid a fight and fascinating and first thing they taught us is discipline,

manners, getting good grades and also how to avoid conflict by being confident. >> you see, i grew up in canada. you learn hockeyer and learn how to fight. i'm kidding. >> hip check anybody. >> nobody messes with you with a hockey stick. >> exactly, exactly. what do you did if you're a parent and your kid is bullied? it is not so easy for many parents and do they have any recourse legally, as well? we'll talk to a professor of media law at seton hall university and jeff gardere that have dealt with these issues coming up. !e!e!e!e!e!e!e!e!e!e!e

welcome back to the most news in the morning. 41 minutes past the hour right now. we're talking about bullying on the show all week and in a larger context cnn and time warner because it's an issue coming up more and more with high profile cases of bullying to the extreme and people actually in some cases take their own lives. moments ago we saw casey wian showing us how some parents enrolling their kids in jujitsu classes in order to teach them how to defend themselves and stay safe at school but is that really a solution for everyone? we are joining by paul calen, professor of seton hall university and dr. jeff gardere and we had you on monday talking about the case at rutgers university and it's heartbreaking and parents wrote in after carroll's pieces in the week and the recommendations of not humiliating a bully or the focus on releasing the bullied person early from school sort of

singling them out and parents furious saying, wait a minute. what about -- punch a bully in the nose but does that work? >> i don't think it works at all. we need to understand and i agree with, you know, the parents being frustrated about this. i totally understand it as a parent myself. but we know that bullies have issues. they have emotional issues so if we tend to single them out or try to harass them, all we are doing is making a bad situation even worse. what we need to do as parents, be role models, try to work out the situation with this kid, whomever the bully is and find out what's going on and may be able to assist them dealing with the problem at the end of the day we end up really helping our own children who are being bullied. >> i may be leaning more, jeff, in the punch them in the nose camp, actually. >> you are an attorney, paul, of course. >> no, no. i do think this thing functions on a couple of levels. first level is, kids have to be able to stand up for themselves. a lot of life, there's a lot of

hard knocks in life. and a lot of being a kid and learning how to deal with bullies and learning how to deal with people that pick on you and i think people who are now trying to advocate criminalizing childhood and in other words by bringing the feds in to prosecute bullies are forgetting that, you know, you have to go through the school of hard knocks a little bit. that being said, of course, when it gets over the top, when it's cruel and inhuman and it's put on the internet, there are legal ways to deal with it but i think you have to toughen your kids up, too. they can't run home to mom and dad every time a kid tries to push them around in school. >> i agree, of course. the point you made, kiran, earlier about the jujitsu, it's not just about defending yourself physically but your mind is your best weapon. i've had kids been involved in martial arts and what they have learned is how to have self discipline. if they have more self esteem they're less likely to be bullied. they'll stand up to them but

they don't have to use their fists of fury as bruce lee would say to deal with the situation. toughens them up mentally. it's not about the fistacuffs and fiphysicality but your hear and mind to stand up to a bully and not be a bully because we know a lot of kids bullied end up being bullies themselves. >> let me ask you about that. in the story yesterday carol did a story and you are bullied because you were bullied and many cases they found that bullies more socially adept, know how to manipulate adults and appear to be doing the right things so that their victims get in trouble, not them. >> this is funny. i suppose in a true sense bullies rule the world to a large degree later on. large corporations, everybody knows, you know, a tough boss who yells at his employees to get productivity so i don't know how that plays out in the long run in terms of a human

development. but i do know that the thing, kiran, i think we are all worried about with the internet and bullies is that, you know, back in the old days a group of five kids in a backyard picking on another kid, it stayed within a very small group. >> it was not any less devastating. >> no, it wasn't. to be the victim. >> to be the -- yeah. the bullied. >> but what's happened today now is when people go online and they publish pictures and publish stories, instead of to five or six people, it is an entire school. it is 300 people or an entire town so the -- >> or the entire world. >> so the level of humiliation quadrupled and increased so kids victimized in a way maybe they could not be victimized in the past. >> i agree. >> dr. jeff, we had people write in. mark said it is about parenting. if you're a bully, you're a bad parent, period. if you can't teach values, you shouldn't values. someone else wrote, wait a minute. i taught my kids values but

their friends are where they learned to bully because they wanted to be with the in crowd. which is it or not so black and white? >> not so black and white but a combination of both those things. i don't think bullies necessarily come from bad parents or parenting. bullies have emotional issues dealing with and expressing the angst or some of the issues going on in their own homes so even the parents may not be aware of what they're doing or how their emotional issues affecting their children and you can be a good parent and your child is in some ways socially involved with other kids teaching them really bad values or bad behaviors and why you need to step in and know who your kids are friends with and make some sort of an intervention and show them the right crowd to hang out with. >> also quickly, there's bullying or some sort of anti-bullying laws on the books in many states. does that make a difference, prevent, you know, the childhood angst that comes with this? >> i don't think it prevents the

angst but i think people should understand there's plags places to go. 44 states have anti-bullying statutes. most require school systems to cooperate and help you in a situation where your child is bullied so i think you can start by going to the parent of the bully first, escalate it to the school level and if you have to, you can go to the police ultimately and sometimes the prosecution can result. but you know something? the best way to deal with these things is i think toughen up your kids and, also, deal with it on a parent to parent basis before you bring the school systems in. >> be kind. >> teach them to be kind and conflict resolution skills. they might be president. >> bullies grow up to be trial lawyers probably. >> oh no. dr. jeff and paul -- >> he said it. >> he is the lawyer, right. john? >> tomorrow, the bully within the beauty. supermodel and talk show host tyra banks goes one on one with suzanne malveaux describing her days as a bully in grade school.

find complete coverage of the efforts to stop bullying. you can get involved, too. send us an ireport. go to cnn.com/bullying. well, a pair of slow-moving storms bring rain and thunderstorms to both coasts and frost warnings up in some parts of the country and other parts got snow. rob marciano next. [ advisor 1 ] what do you see yourself doing one week,

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