it's the amazing tale of hope that spared an innocent man wrongfully convicted of a crime. the subject of a great new film. hillary swank and sam rockwell

are here with the real life sister, about the brother she never gave up on and a dozen men with horror stories of their own, here to tell us how it happened to them next on a very special edition of "larry king live." good evening. hillary swank plays betty ann waters in "conviction." the real betty ann waters is here, too. she went to law school and became an attorney to get her brother out of prison. sam rockwell plays kenneth waters, betty ann's brother who spent 18 years behind bars for a crime he didn't commit. and tony goldwin who directed "conviction," this terrific movie, it opens october 15. such stories aren't just the subject of movies. joining us here in los angeles and in dallas, are 12 men all wrongfully convicted of crimes,

jailed and ultimately freed. the dallas county district attorney who plays the central role in their new lives is with us too, and they'll be watching along with you. we'll hear some of their stories a little later in the hour. let's first take a look at a scene from "conviction." >> this is what i'm going to do, i'm going to stop by trying to get a ba after i take the stupid ged test, and if i can get that far, there's no guarantee i'll even get in, i'll apply to law school. but it's going to take a long time, a really long time and i might be 80 years old before i finally become a lawyer and even then i still don't know if i can finance it. but you have to promise me you'll never try to kill

yourself again, because if you do -- just don't. >> larry: i cannot understate how good this movie is. it is a great film. betty ann what was it like to see yourself played by her? >> first of all i can't even believe that i got to have her play me. but it was really surreal. i felt bad that she had to actually learn to talk like me and do some of the things i do but she did a fabulous job. >> larry: you didn't even have a high school diploma, right? >> i did have a ged. >> larry: so you went to law school and became a lawyer just to get your brother freed? >> yes. >> larry: i what was it like to play her? >> i didn't know of their story before the script was sent to me, i didn't hear about it on the news or anything. but it was a great incredible honor to play this

woman who's my real life hero. >> larry: there's no way to underplay this. it's an incredible film. sam, when you got to strip, you got to play this brother, a conflicted character, did you like it right away? >> i thought it was an amazing script and a great part. i was really excited. >> larry: but you had to play someone who was not a nice guy. a guy you pretty much thought did this, as a viewer. >> he's got a temper. >> larry: no kidding? >> but he's basically a good guy. >> larry: inside, way inside. >> that's right. >> larry: how did you get to direct it, tony? >> we have been working on this for nine years. >> larry: nine years? >> nine years ago my wife saw a piece on "60 minutes" right after betty ann succeeded in getting kenny out of prison. she was screaming at me to come

watch this. i missed the segment and she told me the story and i was so moved by it and i thought to myself, this woman spent 18 and a half years on an act of faith in another human being, in her brother. and i wanted to know about that. i just was so affected by that and i thought what if he did it, what if either she was wrong or if she was never successful, would that have invalidated her faith and the answer for me was no because just the fact of having that much love and faith for another person and as some of our other guests tonight said to me, just one person believing in you is enough to sustain you through being in prison. >> larry: what did you make of her, hillary, this extraordinary lady? >> i felt she was selfless. she was full of grace, the determination and drive and belief and ultimately like tony said love that she had for this other human being, the selfless act of giving, really her life is astonishing and, you know, we

have all said it to betty and betty ann says what? i didn't do anything that anyone wouldn't do. and yes, you did. most people wouldn't do this. >> larry: what kept you believing? >> my brother kenny had more faith in me than anybody ever had. >> larry: but he erupted a lot, he lost confidence a lot. >> he never lost confidence in me. >> larry: not you, but in getting out. >> you know, once that we made that promise that i would go to law school, kenny really believed that i would get him out. i didn't really believe i could get him out or find a way, but he did, he did believe it. >> larry: was it tough to play? >> yeah, it was, it was, but it was fun, it was good, hard work and because of tony and hillary, i felt like i was able to step up to the plate. >> larry: did you talk to betty ann about what her brother was like? >> yeah, absolutely. we spent a whole weekend, the three of us with betty ann and her relatives and told stories about kenny and betty ann when they were kids.

>> lots of great stories. >> it was a lot of fun, actually, yeah. >> larry: you know, when you see this film as it evolves, authorities had every right to think he did it. don't you think? early on? >> you know, i took a certain dramatic license here, kenny was no boy scout, there's no doubt about that. and, you know, the thing that's amazing about kenny and about sam's performance. in one sense, everyone adored kenny and he was the life of the party and was the most kind, generous person, but he could turn in an instant and had a very violent temper. and he attracted trouble, he definitely did. but i in the movie, the authorities, the facts are that the authorities did not have the right to do it. there was a lot wrong with their case, and as you find out in the movies, there was a lot of abuse involved. >> larry: his temper was doing him in, though, wasn't it?

>> he had a temper but he was not an aggressor. when somebody confronted him he didn't know how to handle it. that's where his temper came from. but he's not the type of person who would break into a home. he wouldn't break into a person's home and kill them. his problem was always someone attacking him. >> larry: did he ever have a motive? >> no, he didn't have a motive. >> larry: there was an involvement with the woman, right? >> no, this was just a neighbor. we grew up knowing her. she's never said one bad thing about our family, nobody. >> one thing i think as sam says in the movie, from the start, he's been, you know, he's been painted with that brush. so if people went, oh, he's a bad guy, he's been busted, he's been in prison, and a lot of times in our society because of someone's past or the way we perceive them, we like to generalize. so that happened to kenny. >> larry: tony will be coming back with us later.

the man who was a wrongly convicted man from prison was an american hero will join us next.

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i'm going to get kenny out. there were no dna tests out. they only knew the murderer was type o, and so was kenny. it will prove kenny's innocent, just like in a rape case. >> how do you know the blood evidence still exists? >> because we're going to find it. and barry scheck is going to help. here, look. >> oh, i see. >> this is what he does. he has this innocence project in new york. >> and you're going to call him up and he's going to take your case? >> yes. >> larry: we're back with the stars of "conviction." joining us now is barry schect. what do you recollect about this case, barry? >> this was unforgettable. meeting betty ann and her best friend from law school, it was just extraordinary. we had, as people will see in the movie, it's not just getting dna tests on the blood, that wasn't enough. we had to go out and we had to interview the witnesses, we had

to reinvestigate the whole case. >> larry: did you take it right away off just her visit? >> well, our standard is very simple. if a dna test can prove you innocent at the innocence project in new york, we'll take your case. there are now 50 other innocence projects in the united states. not all of them rely just on dna, we do. that's a very simple standard. if dna proves you innocent, we'll take your case. >> larry: simple as that? >> simple as that. >> larry: how about all the times there was no dna? >> that's a key problem, because only 10% of dna cases have any biological evidence where you can do a test and find out whether somebody is guilty or innocence, much less identify the real perpetrator. so these non-dna case where there's false confessions, bad forensic sciences, police or prosecutors cross the line or worst of all, a dad defense

lawyer. these are the causes of wrongful convictions and we know what to do about them and we know if we solve them, we're going to benefit the whole system. >> larry: how many people you gotten out? >> there's been 260 post convictions overturned. >> larry: 260, all men? >> well, all men. there are some women who got out because they were like co-defendants in the case. >> larry: and these were men who were all in jail for killing someone? >> well, a lot of them are sexual assaults. 17 people were on death row, i think about 40 of them or so were murderers like kenny. if there had been a death penalty in massachusetts. >> larry: what did you think of the movie? >> this movie took 8 1/2 years to get done. and we are thrilled with the movie. i mean -- >> larry: you ought to be. >> it's just got a lot of integrity to it.

it was brilliantly done, the performances of hillary and sam and everybody. >> larry: you look so much alike. how imrtant was barry to you, betty? >> well, you know, hillary says that i'm her hero, barry is definitely my hero, i say that all the time. without him it wouldn't have happened. i don't believe it would have. he's very important to me. >> larry: hillary, have you learned more about this now that you have made this movie that all of these people are free? >> it's one of the blessings of my job is i get to walk in other people's shoes and learn about something that i couldn't have if i weren't an actor. it's extraordinary to be an actor and get that opportunity. >> larry: one can only imagine, sam, to be and we'll meet some of the gentlemen later who are here tonight in our studio, to play someone who didn't do what he's charged with doing, what's it like, how do you feel to be a prisoner when you're innocent?

>> it's hard for me to imagine, i mean as much research as i did, it's still unfathomable to put yourself in that position. you talk to some of these people, you see documentaries, it's really unimaginable. >> larry: wouldn't you think you would go nuts, barry? to be in jail if you didn't do something? >> i think we have lost a lot of people who couldn't deal with it. there's a pattern about these people. i think for the first two or three years you're in prison for a crime you didn't commit, it'ses you alive. the anger is just beyond imagination, and at a certain point in order to survive, you have to transcend it and it's an incredible, spiritual act. and, you know, people say oh, they're not bitter when they get out. i mean, these men have good reason for resentment. but what people are picking up when they say that is that there's a certain spiritual

transendance that's remarkable and that's why they survived. >> larry: how many more in the country are in prison and don't belong there? the movie is "conviction" it opens october 15. we'll get some more answers next. ♪ where'd you learn to do that so well. ♪ the new cadillac srx. the cadillac of crossovers. cadillac. the new standard of the world.

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>> larry: we're back with barry scheck all involved in this extraordinary film "conviction" which opens october 15. you describe the character you play as a lovable screw up, right? >> that might be a different film. >> larry: he was, though, wasn't he, barry? >> he was. you know, sam's portrayal is terrific. >> larry: it's unbelievable. >> because kenny was really funny, he was really the life of the party, as they were saying. but also, i mean, my god, what he went through and his experiences were really extraordinary. he really had one of the worst imprisonments of any client we have had.

i mean -- >> larry: really? >> he had hepatitis c, he really suffered terribly in prison and he came out with such a life force. isolation, yeah. >> larry: did you ever give up, betty? all those years? >> no, i had bad times, there were times when i didn't think i would be able to make it. there were many hurdles i had to take one at a time, but i knew i couldn't give up because i would have a lot to lose, i would have lost kenny. >> larry: your friend al pacino told me after playing kevorkian that he likes playing real people, people he got to know. did you enjoy playing someone who you knew? >> i did enormously. i played a lot of real life people and it's kind of a trajectory i can see now looking back in my career. but only two, including one of them being betty ann were actually alive.

it's wonderful, it's like, you know, a lot of my home work is just hanging out with her and playing fictional characters, you have to kind of make up a lot of the details and the specifics about what you're doing, but getting to meet betty ann, i got to meet all of the onion layers of a person, you know? >> larry: well put, kenny was arrested two years after the murder. let's watch another clip from "conviction." >> can i help you, officeer? >> excuse me. kenneth waters, you're under arrest. >> what? >> we need you to come with us. >> can't it wait? >> now, mr. waters. >> okay, i'm coming, i'm coming. >> please, can't this wait? >> what's that for?

>> can't this wait until after the funeral? >> oh, my god. >> kenneth waters, you're under the arrest for the murder of katarina brown. >> you let me go two years ago? >> we got you know. >> larry: was that a hard scene to do? >> yeah, sure. it always takes a lot of focus in a scene like that, it's surreal, you try to imagine that happening. >> larry: did you watch the filming? >> i watched a lot of the filming, i was there for most of it. >> larry: did you feel funny? >> very funny, and you never know how it's going to end up because i see how hard they work, they can work 14 hours to do one minute of a scene and i'm like you don't know which minute will be on the screen later. >> larry: tony said they take some liberties, is there a lot? or is it pretty much true to form? >> pretty much true to form. i think some of the sequences are different. everything didn't happen at the same time that they said it

happened but all of it happened. and all the feelings were real. and everybody just portrayed those feelings perfectly. especially juliette lewis. >> i reached my hand in the pocket and there was like layer upon layer of klenex. you mentioned this was a cathartic for you to relive -- >> yes. i felt -- i spent many hours talking to hillary, tony, sam, and everyone, and i always felt later that i was doing therapy. it was the same thing on set. >> larry: how long after he got out did he die? >> six months. >> larry: how did he die? >> an accidental fall. he fell and hit his head and died of a brain injury. >> larry: how old was he? >> 47. >> larry: you're around tragedy all the time, scheck, aren't you? >> no, no. >> larry: the movie is "conviction." i can't extol it enough.

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i got these lefty parents and they're always telling me i should put my big mouth to use and try to change the system. so i ignored them. i finally figured out what i wanted to be when i grew up and it turned out my parents were right so here i am. what about you?

>> i'm not trying to be rude, i just don't have time for a friend right now. >> yeah you do. i mean i'm all you got. >> larry: we're back, joining us is mini driver, the academy award nominated actress. she plays in the movie "cop vick shun we have another case here of an actress and the person she played, an actress and the person she played. mini, how did you get this part and what did you think of it? >> i couldn't believe that it was a real story when i read it and i knew that i loved hillary, but falling in love with ms. rice was fantastic. i mean i don't look anything like her and i think tony goldwin, maybe he saw that we have the same sort of spirit. >> larry: right, you don't look alike at all. all right, abra how well did she get you?

>> pretty well. she was a lot nicer. >> larry: were you as tough as you were portrayed? >> tougher. >> larry: do you think she was -- they wouldn't have gone much further if she weren't around, would they, barry? >> she's a public defender in new haven. she's the real deal. >> larry: you are a public defender in new haven now? >> yes. >> larry: and what was it like for you to play a real person? >> it's very strange but amazing because abra was there for a lot of the scenes that i filmed and it was really good to witness her and betty ann's relationship, which is based on a lot of razing and humor and i think when you've been through the kind of war they went through together, you come out the other side with a pretty strong relationship. >> larry: did you know kenny well? >> briefly. >> larry: did you believe he was innocent? >> absolutely. >> larry: what made you believe

it? we understand the sister, you weren't a sister. what made you believe it? >> because betty thought he was innocent, so i thought he was innocent, and that's the reason i went to law school. to help the innocent and the not so innocent. >> larry: as a public defender, everyone tells you they're innocent, right? >> everybody. >> larry: so how do you break down the difference? >> well, they're there as barry knows to perform a service. it's not up to the public defender or the defense attorney to make that decision. but my friend betty ann said her brother was innocent, i believed he was innocent. >> larry: did hillary get you to play this, mini? >> hillary was a big -- she's a big reason that i -- >> larry: you're friends? >> we are friends now. >> larry: you weren't friends then? >> we didn't know each other. we have the same amazing manager. and he kind of put us together. but it was, you know, an extraordinary story with hillary

and tony goldwin directing and -- >> larry: that it is. betty, did mini get your friend right? >> yes, she did. >> no, it was so wrong, it was terrible. >> larry: abracadabra. >> abra has an unbelievable spirit and can be very uplifting. >> larry: let's look at another scene from "conviction." watch. >> betty, they destroyed it. >> no. that evidence exists somewhere and i'm going to find it. >> okay, let's say you do find it. what if the dna matches kenny's? >> get out. get the hell out of my house right now. >> no. you got to hear this.

you can be an amazing fighter, the most brilliant lawyer in the world. there are forces greater than you and you may not win. >> you think i haven't thought of that? >> no, you haven't. >> larry: 12 men who were wrongfully convicted are watching this show with us here in los angeles and in dallas. we'll meet a few of them a little later. you'll see all of them. to learn more about their stories, check out a great new book, "tested." how 12 wrongfully imprisoned men held on to hope, it's in bookstores next week. or you can go to cnn.com/larry king. more after this. stick around. it's speedy alka-s! [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus rushes relief for all-over achy colds. the official cold medicine of the u.s. ski team. alka-seltzer plus.

my own family is and has suffered unbelievable. and we're all just happy today. >> every member in our family has always believed in his innocence without a doubt. never a doubt, never. >> so what is the first thing you're going to do? >> hug and kiss my uncle and bring him home where he belongs. >> larry: barry, people wrongfully in prison, is it generally the case that the prosecutor has too much zeal or that they were acting purely on the information they had? >> well, you know, it's a mixed bag like anything else. there's some prosecutors, like our friend craig watkins here from dallas, who really will look at a case, a case that's been decided and has a conviction integrity unit that will look at it and see whether

or not the evidence merits a re-examination and there's some prosecutors unfortunately that, you know, get this tunnel vision and they won't accept any contrary proof. >> larry: so there's some prosecutors that know there's innocent people in prison, or do they convince themselves that they're guilty? >> they convince themselves for the most part, that they're guilty. >> larry: by the way, who wrote this movie? >> pam gray a fantastic screenwriter and she and tony goldwin did a walk on the moon. my next door neighbor is the original producer of this movie and so from the very beginning, andy said we've got to get these two involved and we did and when your talk about mini and abra i think pam gets a lot of credit. because she's a brooklyn girl and she got it exact little right. >> larry: brooklyn girls would.

it's an emotional picture, some very funny scenes in it. but basically this is hard. >> i think this is at the score, at the heart of it a feel good movie and i think people want to see feel good right now. i think this is a time on earth that people need that. and i think it's going to do well because of it. it's really a love story between a brother and a sister at its core. >> larry: you say you'll have a good feeling coming out, you will, but you'll also be perturbed, don't you think? you'll be a little angry? >> about? injustice. >> of course, but it runs the gamut, you know, i mean from the injustice that is portrayed and people will hopefully look into that and want to do something about that, they'll look into the innocence project, you can innocenceproject.org and learn more about what you can do to help. i think they'll feel hopeless and they'll feel hopeful again

and they'll feel uplifted. >> and question whether you would do it for a family member yourself, just what you would you do, how far would you go. >> and inspiration will actually take you past all odds which is what i think hillary is saying here. i mean that's what people need to hear now, and they need to see it in real life with a real life hero. >> larry: abra, you had to be strong for her. >> it was easy. >> larry: and how proud you must be of this. >> i'm very, very proud of this. my brother would be king. >> larry: was your brother getting back into life? >> it was the best six months of his entire life. he was enjoying life, all the shows, he would talk to anyone that would listen, and everybody wanted to listen. i used to get calls. and he would say, people want to meet my sister, come on and i said, kenny, i'm in bed. >> larry: you're going to meet

some others who say it happened to them. stick around.

>> larry: talking about a new film coming to you in a couple of weeks. the film is "conviction" with hillary swank. why did it take so long to get made? >> because movies like this are hard. you got to do them right or they tend to be -- they can be

easily sort of generic. and overly sentimental and people get a little nervous about that. what were you going to say, hill. >> wouldn't you say just getting a movie made in general is hard right now? >> every time you make a movie it's an act of will so there's no question about that. >> even with million dollar baby, they said we didn't want to make this. so making movies is just hard. >> when this movie was first sold, the movie business was different than it is "today." now the budgets are lower. there's more transformers and you know stuff in the theaters. i mean frankly, it's the influence of cable tv, with such great stuff on cable tv in terms of drama. >> a lot of people i find, you know, you mentioned transformers, studios like

something that they know exactly how to sell it. but i have had so many people coming up to me saying where are all the adult movies, where are the movies we want to see? not that there's not a place for great action movies and whatnot. >> larry: shouldn't we be amazed that there's not more anger in the country, that people are behind bars who didn't do it? >> i think that, as you know, larry, because you have been covering these stories for years there's so many of these exonerations, there's so many of these cases and actually we have more people in prison in this country than any place except russia and iran. so one in four people in this country have somebody they know that was arrested. and i really feel that we have seen it from the screenings and from what happens when people see this movie, if we can get people into the theater to see this movie, you know, the word of mouth is going to be phenomenal. >> larry: also betty, you're a lawyer now, do you think there's a true assumption of innocence in america?

>> i think that that is what happens because before this happened to my brother, i thought people that were in prison were guilty. >> larry: don't you think that's true, there's no pure assumption of innocence? >> i don't think so. >> larry: if somebody is arrested, people assume that they did it? >> i think that's a fact. >> i think that in our country, in our society, maybe in the world as human beings, we like quick answers to things and we want to be certain and if somebody awful happened, we want an answer immediately. so we crave closure. if that's the guy, great. >> larry: we're going to come back and meet the men who have been watching this show with you. all of them wrongly convicted for serious crimes now free to tell us what happened to them. you'll also meet a very courageous d.a. aren't you sick of these airline credit cards

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i was positive about it. >> larry: that was steven brody released from prison just friday, wrongfully convicted of aggravated sexual assault of a child. stephen is one of the men watching our show from dallas. and here in los angeles, craig watkins, the dallas county district attorney, he refused to destroy evidence from old cases which ultimately led to 20 exonerations. johnny lindsay, wrongfully convicted in aggravated rape, served 26 years until a dna test proved his innocence. keith turner, wrongfully convicted of rape, served ten years, dna cleared him. steven phillips, wrongfully convicted of aggravated rape, served 24 years. dna freed him. christopher stock, wrongfully convicted of capital murder, served 12 yeared. freed after another prisoner confessed. billy james smith, wrongfully

convicted of aggravated assault. dna proved he was not a rapist. tommy mcgowan served 23 years before dna testing proved his innocence. anthony karage served seven years. dna helped his release. james giles was wrongfully consikted of aggravated sexual assault. he served ten years, dna helped exonerate him. richard miles wrongfully convicted of murder and attempted murder. served 15 years. evidence naming the real killer never provided to the defense. he was released when this tragic mistake was uncovered. victor thomas wrongfully convicted of rape, kidnapping and robbery, served 16 years. dna tests proved he wasn't the rapist. eugene horton, wrongfully

convicted, served 18 months. we showed you stephen brody. you can see more of his try at cnn.com/larryking. hillary swank, betty ann waut s wauters. craig watkins, what led you to hold onto this as opposed to other d.a.s who didn't? >> i was elected as a new d.a. in dallas county in 2006 and took office in 2007. upon my first week of entering office, i was requested by a long-time assistant d.a. to sign a form to allow all the evidence to be destroyed. and, you know, i had practised law for a while in dallas county, and i thought that that was not going to be a wise decision. so i refused to sign the motion to have that evidence destroyed.

it was probably for the last three years as the district attorney for dallas county, one of the best decisions i made. my first week in office, there was an exoneration of a man trying to have his name cleared for five years. fortunately i got the opportunity to go downstairs and apologize to that individual for his wrongful conviction. and i didn't think anything of it. i thought it's the responsibility of the elected district attorney to restore credibility to the criminal justice system, at least give an apology to an individual who had been wrongfully convicted. so i did that. after that, it became a big media storm as to the fact that i just went down and apologize. soon after that, we had someone from tin sense project contact us and said dallas county has been a halven of wrongful

convictions and this is an opportunity for you, mr. d.a., to look agent these cases and make sure it never happens again. >> larry: i salute you. we'll talk with some of the men after this.

>> larry: this book will be released next week, "tested." johnny, you served 26 years, johnny lindsey. how did you put up -- what kept you going? >> well, the fact that first of all, i knew i wasn't guilty of the crime. and i just thought it was so harsh that i was just literally kidnapped by the police, the district attorney's office, and all the -- i felt like i was kidnapped and just thrown away. >> larry: what kept you going? >> well, it was the faith that i had that right will always

override wrong. and somehow, some way, i knew that the truth would come out, that i wasn't the perpetrator. and i just, i prayed, i just kept the faith and it was the only thing i know to do to keep from going insane. and i kind of -- in relation to "conviction," when the -- when bobby, i think that was his name, he was talking about committing suicide, that's the side of the conviction, a wrongful conviction that people don't know or hear about. >> larry: let me ask richard in dallas. evidence naming the real killer in your case was never provided to the defense. weren't you angry and bitter when you got released? >> yes, sir, i was. but if i dwell on the anger, i can't get past it.

and i had to hold onto the hope. i had to stay focused on my father, who was a bishop, who passed away before i got out. the determination that i had was put in me when i was young, and that inevitably was the spring that inspired me to move on. >> larry: keith, you were wrongfully convicted of rape. you served 16 years. it had to be more than faith. what kept you going? >> my mother, you know. she was a woman of faith and she instilled in me to, you know, to believe in what's right. you know, she was my guidance and she taught me everything i know. she taught me how to be a man. you know, she believed in me and she was there for me.

you know, my story in the book "tested" is a tribute to my mother for being there for me. >> larry: somewhat like betty ann waters was as a sister, right? >> yes. >> larry: believing in someone. >> yes. >> larry: james giles, what kept you going? >> basically, my faith in god and trusting that sooner or later, the truth will prevail. and so after the truth really came to light through the innocence project of new york, i got to writing letters to barry and my faith kept hope that one day that this will come to the light. and so that's why it's so important for everyone to see that book "tested" to know that my hope was in god, that i knew that one day my mother was dead and gone, but the truth will prevail. >> larry: is that the common thread, faith?

>> well, faith, and a belief that somehow, you know, truth will rise again, no lie will live forever. >> larry: but these men, some that were on death row, so are others maybe that were put to death who didn't do it. >> i think that's definitely happened. >> larry: how do you redress that grievance? >> we're actually having a hearing this week in austin, texas, about one of those cases about a man named cameron todd willingham. we're asking a judge to make a ruling that an innocent man was wrongfully executed in the united states. >> larry: they're saying they will make an announcement by a judge in texas next week. >> we have a hearing. >> larry: that texas killed someone wrongfully? >> "the new yorker," there was an article about it and that's what's -- >> larry: