before we leave you, a postscri postscript. last night along with the entire world, we watched the ultimate feel-good story. 33 chilean miners rescued in an unforgettable demonstration of faith and endurance. >> and they're back home now with their family and loved ones, so we're going to raise a glass and toast them. eliot? >> cheers and salute. stay tuned for "larry king." tonight, george clooney on the ticking time bomb that he says we can't ignore. >> this is the place that's at

most risk in the world right now. >>. >> larry: he has president obama's attention. now he wants the world to wake up to a threat that could result in a million deaths. >> they have been captured, and they have been sold. and they have been tortured, and they have been raped and murdered. >> larry: is time running out in sudan? george clooney for the hour is next, on "larry king live." >> larry: good evening. i've got a catch in my throat tonight, so if you hear it, that explains it. george clooney is the academy award winning actor and activist, just back from a trip to southern sudan, a region that secretary of state hillary clinton describes as a ticking time bomb. with george is john pendergast. he has traveled to the southern sudan with mr. clooney, the co founder of the "enough" project,

an anti genocide advocate organization, coauthor of the book "the enough moment: fighting to end africa's worst human rights crimes." they join us from the national press club in washington. when people hear your name, george, in connection with the sudan. they probably think of darfur, in the northwest. this time you were in the south. why? >> well, we're in the south because there was a peace agreement. there was a war here that ended in 2005, with a peace agreement brockered by the united states. and they have the right now to vote for their independence from the north. the north being the same people who acted against darfur, the government of cartune and killed two-and-a-half people in the south sudan and 3 or 4,000 people in darfur. the south now has right to vote for their own independence. and the international community,

the -- the president, the congress, the u.n., everyone, believed that this is the place that's at most risk in the world right now. >> utmost risk in the world. a ticking time bomb. why, george? why there? >> well, i mean, it's sort of economics, in a way. there's oil on the border. so the north wants to move the border further down, because there's oil right on that edge. the south wants to keep it, because it's underneath their feet. and so there's economic reasons for it, in general. there's a lot of reasons, believe me, it's very complicated. but that's a big one. it's what's going to be required is, some form of prove profit sharing, coming up and designating where the border would be. there's a lot of complications to it. but right now, this is, you know, the governor has had two

opportunities to act without war, and they have chosen war. and atrocities. so to think that they wouldn't the third time, when there's this much at stake would be naive at best. >> larry: john, how long were you there? where did you go? >> well, we went for a week on this last trip, and we traveled all over the border region, including to this little place about the size of connecticut called abia, which everyone thinks if the war does begin again, it will begin there. and we've got to figure out as part of the diplomatic surge that the obama administration has announced, figure out a way to address the concerns of the people that live there in the broader puzzle of the different interests of the two parties. it's all negotiable, and that's the good news. you know, the bad news is, we only have 88 days until the referendum for southern independence. the good news is, we have 88 days in order to stop a war before it starts. and that's what our message was yesterday to president obama. is to say, this is something that can actually be prevented

before it starts. >> larry: and how receptive was he, john? >> not only receptive, but i think ahead of the curve. and certainly we've been concerned that for the first year-and-a-half of his administration there wasn't enough attention placed on sudan. but we have seen in the last couple months the president himself become very seized with the issue of sudan. secretary of state and others in his administration. and we're starting to see some real action. so he wants to do more. the republicans in the senate and the house want to do more. we met with richard louver yesterday from indiana, senator from indiana, and we have met with a number of other representatives and senators. everybody wants to do more. now is the time to do it, with such a short fuse left. >> larry: george, when you go to these places, in this recent script, what struck you the most? >> well, what struck us the most, struck me the most, was their resolve. i mean, they are -- they to a

person no only have going to vote for independence, these are people that have been truly, you know -- they have been captured and they have been sold. and they have been tortured, and they have been raped and murdered. and they believe they have a right for independence now, and that the international community agreed to it. they believe they're going to have that independence starting on the 9th of january. and to a man to, a person, every single one of them said they're willing to fight and die for that freedom. and that's -- they were -- that was the strongest thing we saw. >> larry: john, you know, the rest of the world hears about this. such prominent people as yourself, george clooney, go. we hear numbers. do would he turn away? does the world care? >> well, good news about sudan, and the remarkable thing, frankly, about sudan, is that you have over the last ten years developing constituency of

conscience. people in the united states and around the world rooted in churches and synagogues and high schools, where students and people of faith respond to the suffering of the people of sudan, and say, we are our brothers and sisters' keepers and we ought to do all we can. we don't have to send american troops, we don't have to spend tens of billions of dollars, we have to invest in diplomacy to resolve conflict in southern sudan n in darfur and bring peace to people. >> and also, larry, i want to add to that. when it's do we care, the truth is, america has been and continues to be the most generous country on the planet. and, you know, the united states -- not the government, necessarily, a lot of it's ngos, but we spend almost $1 billion there now, and so we're already

there, we're in it, and we care. the question will be whether or not we're going to spend that money mopping up a massacre, or whether we're going to be there trying to help prop up a new governor. >> larry: by the way, if you would like more information about the situation we're discussing tonight, go to sudanactionnow.org. more with george and john right after the break. don't go away. [ female announcer ] the healing power of touch

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we felt like this was a chance to be able to stop finally, stop a war before it starts. and that's the most important thing. that there is an opportunity here not to start one, but to stop a war before it starts. >> larry: we're back with -- you look up activism, you get george clooney and john pendergast. george, did you travel with private citizens or government auspices. >> private citizens. we are just -- you know, what we heard over the last -- this is something we had been planning for a bit of time now. it takes a little bit of planning to be able to sort of move inside the country. it's not very easy to do. but you know, we -- we looked around and thought, okay, a lot of people here agree. everyone agrees that there's a

cloud, a dangerous cloud coming. the problem is that it needs to be amplified, and, you know, yes, everyone wants to do something. the president wants to do something. the republicans have owned this issue as much, if not more than the democrats. everybody wants to do it in a highly politicized time, maybe the most ever. both sides agree. which we don't get much. this is an opportunity for us as citizens to empower these, you know, our senators, our congressmen, our president, to do as much as he possibly can. again, it's very important we keep saying this. this is not about spending money. this is not about using troops. this is about what we do best, which is robust diplomacy. >> larry: john, does the u.n. have a strong presence in this? >> the u.n. has a billion-dollar a year peace-keeping mission in southern sudan to go along with

the billion-dollar a year peacekeeping mission in darfur. so they're on the ground, not particularly effective -- as effective as we would like to see them be. we would like to see them much more be focused on protecting civilians and the united nations security council led by susan rice came, and they are going to look at how to strengthen the mandate. but they're there, so we have a huge infrastructure that's there. we have a vote looming on january 9. the united nations can be the vehicle for getting those registration materials out, for ensuring that that vote can occur in as credible a fashion as possible. >> larry: what, george, is the worst-case scenario here? what can happen before january 9th that should trouble us the most? >> well, what can happen before january 9 is that the government of kartum starts funding smaller

groups to start fights, inner fighting, like he did with the john je wee going into darfur to create chaos so they can say, hey, look, the south can't govern itself. the reality is, the worst-case scenario? well, 2.5 million people died in the last war between the north and south that ended in 2005. and the south has a lot more guns and tanks now. so the south is better armed, which means this could really and truly be a bloody war. >> larry: judge why, john, has kartum been a trouble spot? >> you've got a military coup. their aspirations were to create the first islamic state when oil began to be exploited, primarily thanks to the chinese. the ideological fervor diminished, and the fervor for making as much money and stealing as much money from the state treasury as possible took its place. you've got a government there

that has committed the worst atrocities imaginable, including genocide in darfur, and maintain power by any means necessary, so that cocktail is a pretty lethal one. so our view is, through peace processes, a., we can prevent conflict between the north and the south and end the war in darf darfur. but secondly, we can also begin to address that absolute power that exists in kartum and begin to democrattize the country, allowing some competition, political parties, some freedom of the press and the kind of things that generally erode authoritarianism. so it's a bank shot. we're both looking for a peace around the country, but we're also looking long-term for the democratization of that country which will allow all people in sudan to be free. >> parker spitzer are right here before the show. here's what kathleen and eliot have been talking about recently. take a look. >> reagan when he ran for president in '76 said we need

new leadership, unfettered by old ties and old relationships. the tea party people are unfettered by old ties. they're changing america. >> let's talk -- >> wait, wait, wait, richard. that was fascinating, but it didn't answer the question. >> you noticed. two more pills. the day marches on, back to more pills. and when he's finally home... but hang on; just two aleve can keep arthritis pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is steven, who chose aleve and 2 pills for a day free of pain. and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels.

i can't get out of the spotlight, no matter what i do. and these people can't get in it, no matter what they do. and they need the spotlight, and i don't. >> just one. that's only once. >> larry: we're back with george clooney and john prendergast, at the national press club talking about the situation in southern sudan where they're just back. he has so much on his plate, george, the president, the economy, the coming elections. really, how much attention did he focus on this? >> i think for a period of time, probably not as much as he should have. i think that that happens when you have so many other things on your plate. but what is apparent now is that there is a tremendous am of focus. because in some ways, you have to look at it as if this is one

that, you know, the president -- there was a peace agreement with the bush administration. we don't want -- he doesn't want to see that be lost. under his administration. so i think now there's a very intensive look at what -- best ways we can find to do this without -- you know, we're in two wars or getting out of one and still escalating another. what we really don't need is any sort of conversations about troops. what we need conversations about is diplomacy. right now, you can do diplomacy. >> larry: i want to get this right, john. this is for both of you. richard williamson, who served a special envoy for sudan under president bush, has been critical of the obama administration's handling of sudan. he told "time" magazine last month, khartoum is stronger, juna is weaker, the darfur is forgotten. it's an utter shock to anyone

who follows this. what is your response, john? >> well, that was a month and a half ago, no question richard is right. i think what we're seeing now is a turn-around in american diplomacy. i think you're seeing the president himself take the reigns and saying even in the midst of this political season in the midst of the crisis, he has tasked people beneath him. and there is nothing like when a president starts pressing buttons to get some action. so they have deployed diplomats to the region to work this issue. it's not enough. we want to see more resolve on the part of the u.s. and we want to see bigger sticks and bigger carrots that will incentivize the path to peace for the sudanese parties. but there is a trend line going up in terms of level of concern and effectiveness of u.s. diplomacy right now. >> larry: george, of all they've been through, what are the people like? >> they're like everybody else.

they want to raise their children in peace. they want to have a job. they want to go to work. they. to, you know, have families. exactly like everyone else. they're -- many of them have only known war. and that's -- and that's a very tough life. i remember being in -- in 2005 or 2006 being in south sudan, and they were young men wearing a garang button, and he was the president of the south sudan, you would call it at the time. and he was killed in a plane crash. and we asked him about his button, and said, you know, are you excited about this peace agreement? and he said, you mean, the cease-fire. and that was in 2006. and he was, you know, 15. they have known a lot of war here. they have been through it, through the ringer. and they're really looking to this as a great moment. we were there -- the security council came while we were in

juna in an emergency mission, all of them, all 15 members, it was a big deal. and all of the children from all of the schools and in their dress shirts were standing out with signs saying, you know, thank you to the u.n., and please help us with peace. >> larry: but doesn't it harden them, george? >> i would imagine it just makes you more resolute. i would imagine. i don't know about hardened. you know, there are certainly people that are hardened. but boy, there's some amazingly -- i mean, just beautifully kind people. >> larry: john, our special enjoy to sudan, the retired general scott grecian, he has taken heat from some advocacy groups. some have called for his resignation. they're saying he doesn't do enough. what do you think? >> i think we're focused on now the fact that there is such a short time left. general grayson is out there in the region, he is out there, along with other american

diplomats. led by a former ambassador, princeton lieman, ambassador in south africa and nigeria, a lot of experience. so they have reinforced the special envoys' office with lots of help. and we're hoping that the obama administration will keep increasing the support for the diplomatic mission in this very short fuse before the january 9 referendum. and give the support to the mediators, all the support they need, generate support in other capitals, because that's part of the answer, is getting beijing, getting cairo, getting london and paris as engaged as the united states is. in supporting a peaceful settlement to this conflict. >> larry: the role of celebrity and calling attention to the world's crises, how well does that work? i'll ask george about it, next. over the country, so, what if there were priority mail flat rate... envelopes? yes! you could ship to any state... for a low flat rate?

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back with john prendergast and george clooney. john, you frequently use the word "robust" to explain the diplomacy needed. would you break that down for me? what consequence at this constitutes robust? >> it's a good question. the one thing we're very good at is diplomacy. we have done that for years and have been very successful at it. we were successful in 2005 in this exact same region. we know the map. it requires -- they're going to have to find -- they're going to decide on a border, they're going to decide on profit sharing, and it's going to require going to the governor of

khartoum and saying if you go by all of these rules, and if you -- including darfur, and if you seek peace, then there can be carrots. there can be rewards for that, including what they would like, which is normalizing some relations with the u.s. on the other hand, we have to use the international community as much as possible to say, on the other hand, if you choose violence, then this is going to -- then khartoum is going to become a very small place, very isolated. he doesn't spend his money in sudanese pounds. it's dollars or euros or english pounds. you know, we were going to go after the assets. and we need the international community to do that. it's robust means robust. and it means quick. >> larry: how do you rate the job that secretary clinton is doing, george? >> i'm a huge fan of hers, and i think she is doing a wonderful job. you know, it's my opinion, but

in my opinion, she is doing a wonderful job. >> larry: john, you on her. what do you think? >> you know, this is the time where we needed secretary clinton to step up for sudan, and she is doing that. she is making calls on an almost daily basis to various world leaders, and to the parties in sudan, so they have stepped up the diplomacy. she promised that's what would happen about a month ago. and she has delivered. so we're very, very appreciate active of that and want to see more of the same going forward before january 9. >> i just talked to -- i did just get a message from senator john kerry, who is the ranking member on foreign relations, and he's going to go in the next two weeks. he's going to head to sudan, so it's high on everybody's list right now. >> larry: you met with him and with richard lugar, right? >> i talked to him on the phone.

>> larry: were you encouraged by that? >> yes, we were, and with the speaker, nancy pelosi, and we were encouraged by everyone's involvement. of course, it's campaign mode. and what's nice about it, and what makes this really heartening, is that everyone feels like this is one issue they can all be on the same side on. and there aren't many of those. so that -- we were very -- we felt very good about that. and we felt like, listen, what we need is -- they need now -- they all want to do it, okay? they want to do it. now what makes them do it? everybody at home, you know -- e-mail or write or call the white house. the officials, the legislators that you elect. the people you vote for. empower them by saying, get out there and get into diplomacy before we have to go there and start mopping up blood. >> larry: because after a while, john, it just sounds like numbers, doesn't it? that's tragic. >> it can be numbing. but the good news is, look at places likely beer i can't, we

have all seen "blood diamond" the movie. it turns out today it is completely at peace because there was an investment in ending that war there, investment in ending the war in liberia. those countries are growing rapidly. so this is -- sudan can be next. we can invest in a diplomatic solution, cut off all that -- the billions and billions of dollars of humanitarian aid over the next 20 years if war resumes if we can get ahead of it this time, broker a peaceful settlement and institutions that can end up making the country self-sufficient. >> larry: george, what's not being done? >> well, what's not being done is what we hope is now being done, which is there weren't enough talks. there was a lot of posturing. and you'll find now -- you'll see both sides starting to really push the extreme limits

before the big negotiations. that's sort of normal. and we see that in every negotiation you do with anybody. any time. i negotiate with a studio, that sort of issue. the bottom line is, you're going to see this first. you're going to see that kind of posturing. but what needs to be done now is now we need -- it has to be a constant thumping of diplomacy by everyone involved. you know, china has no interest. you know, we can't shame china, you know, a billion three people into doing things because of humanitarian issues, and i've been there and met with government officials. the truth is, this is economically sound for them. they don't want a war. they have oil wells there, and chinese workers there. and the south sudanese are going to attack those. that's the first place they're going to go, and they're going to blow them up, and they're going to lose their oil flow, and it's going to interrupt it. the egyptians will have the same problem with water, which they need. water rights.

so at the end of the day, there are other players that we have to get involved, simply out of economic reasons. >> larry: george just told you what you can do. for more information about that, about the situation in sudan, go to the website. cnn.com/larryking. that's our website. or go to sudan action now.org. we'll be right back.

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we don't hear. we don't know all of these things that are going on. many people in america don't know that there is a referendum and a vote. they just don't know. so we want to make sure they know. >> larry: we're back with george clooney and john prendergast. george, we mentioned earlier about celebrity. do you think who you are helps? >> look, i've been very lucky in my life over the years. i was a broke actor and i used

to cut tobacco for a living. i got lucky. and part of that, for good or ill, is that a lot of cameras now follow you around. i get much more attention than i need or deserve. and there are an awful lot of people in the world that need some attention. so my job is to try and spread that attention around to the people who need it. that's my job. i'm not a policy maker. my only job is to come out and say, shine a light on -- in an area, help shine a light on an area that needs it, because we know omar bashir, for instance, operates in the dark, and we know what he does when he operates in the dark. so my job is to help via mega phone for all the activists, the church groups and all of the young college students who carried this. you know, that's all i can do. >> larry: john, how much does he mean? >> well, for example, the issue of abia, which i mentioned earlier, this is the potential

kashmir of sudan, the ground zero of a potential next war. left to its own devices, no one covers it, no one cares. if human rights activists like myself go there, and we write a little report, maybe a few hundred people read it. if george goes, we're on "larry king." we're getting on all -- we're getting all kinds of media. the issue is covered. we get a chance to talk to president obama about it. they refocus on the issue. it has an impact. so as an activist, 25 years working on war and peace in africa, we're really grateful that people like george take an interest and actually invest their time and energy and go to these places and spend time learning about the issues, spending time with the people, and in a modest and humble way. and it's quite an extraordinary thing to see how much attention is garnered for the issue that otherwise would -- the lights

would be off. >> also let's be clear. i'm just a mega phone here. all i'm trying to do is turn the volume up. and there are a lot of people doing a lot more work than i am on this issue. >> larry: george, omar al bashir has been indicted by the international criminal court for genocide. why is he still in power? >> well, because we're not going to -- you know, there are funny things that happened, you know. we forget, you know, the u.n. doesn't really have an army. so they're not going to go in and get him. we're not going to go in and get him. so it puts us in the precarious spot. you know, he's a sitting president who has been indicted. and some other members of harun who have also been indigted, he's right on the border of south sudan. it makes it a very difficult position for us. but you can continually tighten

their ability to maneuver and to do things by taking away -- by going after their assets. >> larry: have you met with him? >> no, i haven't. i went to khartoum, which was an interesting trip. and went to a lot of the idp camps there. but -- i asked to meet with him, but he didn't -- i think i had said a few things that probably got me in a little bit of trouble with him. >> larry: how about the president of southern sudan, sal vakir, have you meet with him? >> several times. john knows. we had a good couple hours with him just talking about the possibilities of war, and how resolute they are in -- not just in the referendum and voting for their independence, but that this area with all the oil, abia is part of the south. and if they tried to peel it

off, that would create war. >> larry: americans facing so many serious issues here at home. we'll ask george and john how that impacts their cause. that's next. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] every day thousands of people are switching from tylenol® to advil. to learn more and get your special offer, go to takeadvil.com. take action. take advil®.

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we're back with george clooney and john prendergast. how much of this fight that you engage in, if we can call it a fight, are you hampered by the fact of americans have greater interests, george? >> well, you know, sure, there's doannar fatigue in certain ways.

we're not asking for any money. hampered, no. because the american people have a tremendous capacity to care. and here's the truth. the truth of the matter is this. if i put it to you like this, if you took two minutes out of your day, out of one day, just today or tomorrow, to write an e-mail, it's a modern day now, we're e-mailing, and twittering and facebooking. write an e-mail to the white house saying, please do everything you can, diplomatly, again, not causing any money, not costing any soldiers. do everything you can. you have my support, even if i didn't vote for you. you know, the same thing to senator lugar and the same thing to senator kerry, and just e-mail. two minutes out of your day. you could be -- you would be part of a voice of people that could say they stopped this genocide. they stopped this war. genocide is a word that is thrown around too easily.

they stopped what is predicted to be a massacre. >> larry: so that simple. you're watching this show, take two minutes. >> take two minutes. it's amazing the effect of one person's voice. >> we have made it easy for people. sudan action now.org, sign the form there, can you say somize an e-mail and send it straight to the white house literally in and out in two minutes. >> larry: "time" magazine recently quoted a sudan analyst saying he thinks both north and south sudan recognize that a return for is not in their interests. that's optimistic. you agree with that, george? >> well, you might want to talk to john about that, but yes, i agree they don't think it's necessarily in their best interest. but i would also say that, you know, if you're omar al bashir, and you're the president of this country, and you're losing the south, and you're losing the oil, and the revenues from the

oil, and also with the -- with the ability then to -- for regime change, i think you go very -- you know, it's a very -- it's a very long faithful stretch to think that they're going to go away peacefully. >> larry: a slippery slope. it's time for tonight's cnn hero. one of our top ten honorees selected by a blue ribbon panel. here's a look at a chef who walked away from an award-winning career to help others. watch. >> hello, i'm debby mazr. last year i had the honor of helping to recognize the great works of everyday people changing the world at cnn heroes, an all-star tribute. as a supporter of the midnight mission, i'm committed to helping the homeless and the hungry through feeding and support services. and this year, i will thrilled to help introduce the top honorees of 2010. now more than ever the world needs heroes. >> because of the poverty in

their faces, too many people are being abandoned. i saw a very old man eating his own human waste for food. it really hurt me so much. i was working for a five-star hotel as a chef. but the old man changed everything. my name is n. karashan. i feed and care for the abandoned and mentally ill. i get up at 4:00 in the morning. every meal is prepared fresh. people are waiting for us. they totally rely on the food which we give. we are feeding almost 400 people three meals a day, around the clock. the happiness i see in their face keeps me going. i take energy from them. i want to save people, and i feel that is the purpose of my life. ♪

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tonight on "360", it's one of the tightest senate races in the country, sharron angle versus harry reid. we'll show you the most fiery moments from their debate. why did angle claim two towns are adopting islamic sharia law? now she's trying to explain where she got the idea. also we'll head to chile on the miners and the amazing rescue, outside the hospital we are where several are expected to be released tonight and we'll hear from one of the miners. and now a double murder and mystery, david hartley, the american reportedly killed by

pirates, now a mexican police investigator killed as well. and now a new report claims the whole thing could have been a case of mistaken identity. the details at the top of the hour. now back to "larry king live." >> larry: all right. now, remaining moments, gentlemen, what about the role of other nations in the region? nine countries border sudan. what's their part, george? john? either one. >> let john. john's been in all of those. >> well, the biggest, the biggest neighbor is of course the one that has the biggest interest is egypt. and egypt of course, a long-time ally of the united states, particularly with respect to middle east peace. the nile flows from many of those nine countries northward into egypt. and egypt is dependant upon the nile river for its economic lifeline and they need an increased flow of the nile water for the future survival of industry and agriculture in

egypt going forward. so they need southern sudan to be peaceful, so that they can create the kind of canal systems that will push additional water flow northward into egypt. so war is -- would undermine dramatically undermine the economic prospects for egypt's future. so that alone should be one of the country's that the united states invests in in a diplomatic effort to try to bring the sudanese to peace. >> larry: george, what about the threat of military action? >> you know, it's always a trick, because the idea of a threat doesn't work if you're really not going to do anything about it. threats are tricky. you know, every once in a while, listen, when you're there and you see a family that's just been devastated, the first thing you think is, you know, come in here and get these guys. there's no way to not feel that way.

but the truth of the matter is, i don't think we're in the position right now to do it, and i don't think -- and i don't think we would move the ball any further right now to do it. i think what we really need is to get in and say, here are all of the options that we will give you, which is big, big, big sticks if you screw up, and some options to get out of this if you do the right thing. >> larry: you think a vote's going to happen, john? >> i think that it's one of those things where the big ingredient is american leadership and american diplomacy. and if that's stewarded in the correct manner and enough support is given by the president and by the congress and the american people, we have the chance to prevent this war from happening and the vote to occur on january 9th. i'm optimistic that we'll do the right thing. after meeting yesterday, george and i meeting with president obama, we have a lot of confidence in him. he needs to hear from the american public that it's okay to do as much as he has to do to

make it happen. >> larry: momei'll ask george a the break aboaebreak. ♪ everything you need to stretch out on long trips. residence inn. ♪

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>> larry: george, a recent guest on this show, libya's moammar gadhafi has said that southern sudan's going independent would spread like a disease in africa, provoking instability and frightening off investors. what do you make of that? >> well, here's the one thing,

you know, is like we were talking about before, when you begin these negotiations, everyone goes as far as they can to one side or the other, and the rhetoric becomes pretty extreme. it has to. that's how negotiation works because you're going to eventually give. gadhafi was making an effort to negotiate at one point in this. he's -- it's rhetoric. it's always rhetoric. with him it's almost always rhetoric. but at the end of the day, would there be fears of all that stuff? sure. listen. here's the point. after the -- let's say -- let's give it the best-case scenario. the south sudan gets their peace, they get their independence, and they start their government. we -- there's still going to be efforts to make sure it's not a failed state. i mean, this is a long process. but what's important now, we know what happens when we don't act. we didn't act fast enough in the congo, we didn't act fast enough

in darfur, we didn't act fast enough in rwanda. we know what happen when's we don't. and it costs us billions because we're going to be there. so it's better to do it now. >> larry: george, we think of darfur, we think of you. how did you have to come so personally involved in that area? >> i was reading nick chris to have's articles in "the new york times" and it wasn't getting -- everybody was doing things, they were great -- there were church groups and student movements and there was a lot of rumblings and a lot of things going on, and great activists doing a lot of stuff, but it wasn't getting enough play, and i'm a son of a newsman. my dad used to talk about how he would have a news story that would get bumped because they ended up putting some celebrity on tv after he'd gone and covered a news story. s so i said, let's go to darfur, you be the newsman and i'll be the celebrity and we'll combine them. and whether it works or not, i don't know. all i know is my job is to just

try and make it loud. because, you know, when it's loud like this, people tend to do some -- tend to move. i don't know if moving is always helpful, but move -- you can't do it without moving. >> larry: a couple of other quick things. at the emmys you were honored with the bob hope humanitarian award, i know it meant a great deal to you, but you used that moment to speak and ask others to get involved. you think that's working? >> my asking others to get involved i don't think would make much of a difference. i think people are involved. i think, you know, i'm -- listen. let me tell you, you go to -- go to south sudan into a tiny village like lul, l-u-l, you have to ride 2 1/2 hours on a boat, it's impossible to get to. and you get to a tiny camp that's been -- a village that's been overrun and a camp that's been set up with some internally-displaced people. and there sits a