tonight, george clean clooney on the ticking time bomb that he says we can't ignore. >> it's the biggest ticking time bomb on the earth right now.

>> larry: he wants the world to wake up to the threat that could result in a million deaths. >> they have been captured and they have been tortured and they have been raped and murdered. >> larry: is time running out in sudan? george clooney for the hour is next on "larry king live." good evening, by the way, i have a little catch in my throat tonight, so if you hear me itching, that explaining it. george clooney, the award winning actor and acivist, just returned from southern sudan, a region that secretary of state hillary clinton describes as a ticking time bomb. with george is john pendergast, he's traveled to sudan and he's the co-founder of the enough project. that's an anti-genocide advocacy organization, "the enough

moment" fighting to end africa's worst crimes. he joins us from the national press club in washington. when people hear your name, george, in connection with sudan, they were probably think of darfur in the northwest. this time you were in the south, why? >> well, we're in the south because there was a peace agreement, there was a war here that ended in 2005 with a peace agreement brokered by the united states. and they have the right to vote for their independence. the south has the right to vote for their own independence and the international community, the president, the congress, the

u.n., everyone believed this was the place that's most at risk in the world right now. >> most it risk place in the world, a ticking time bomb. >> there's oil right on that edge, and the south wants to keep it because it's underneath their feet. and so there's economic reasons for it in general. there's a lot of reasons, believe me, it's very complicated. but that's a big one. what's going to be required is some form of profit sharing, coming up with coming up and designating where the border would be. there's a lot of complications to it. right now the governor of khartoum has had two opportunities to act without war and they have chosen war and atrocities. so to think they wouldn't the

third time when there's this much at stake, would be naive at best. >> john, how long were you there and where did you go? >> we went for a week on this last trip, and we traveleded all over the border region, including this place about the size of connecticut called abe, which everyone thinks if the war does begin again, it will begin there in abe. and we got to figure out as part of the diplomatic surge that president obama has announced, figure out a way to address the concerns of the people that live there in the broader puzzle of the different interests of the two parties. it's all negotiatable. and that's the good news, the bad news is that we only have 88 days until the referendum for southern independence. the good news is that we have 88 days in order to stop a war before it starts and that's what our message was yesterday to president obama is to say this is something that can actually be prevented before it starts. >> larry: and how receptive was he, john? >> not only receptive, but i think ahead of the curve.

and certnly we have been concerned that for the first year and a half of his administration there wasn't enough focus placed on sudan. but he has become concerned with sudan, secretary of state and some others in his administration and we're starting to see some real action. he wants to do more, the republicans in the senate and the house want to do more. we met with richard luger, the senator from indiana and we have met with a number of other representatives and senators. everybody wroonts to do more, and now is the time to do it with such a short fuse left. >> larry: what struck you the most in this most recent trip? >> what struck me the most was their resolve. i mean to a person, not only are going vote for independence but these are people that have been truly, you know, they have been

captured and they have been sold and they have been tortured and raped and murdered and they believe they have a right for independence now and that the international community agreed to it. they believe they are going to have that independence starting on the ninth of january and to a man, to a person, every single one of them said they're willing to fight and die for that freedom. and that's -- that was the strongest thing we saw. >> when we hear numbers, do we turn away? does the world care? >> the good news about sudan and the remarkable thing frankly about sudan is that you have over the last ten years a developing constituency of consciousness, people around the states and around the world rooted in churches and

synagogues and universities and high schools where students and people of faith respond to the suffering of the people of sudan and say, indeed we are our brothers and sisters keepers and we ought to do all we can. we don't have to send american troops, we don't have to spend tens of billions of dollars, we need to invest in diplomacy to prevent and resolve the conflict in southern sudan, resolve the conflict in darfur and bring peace to these people. >> and also larry, i want to sort of add to that, when it's do we care? the truth is america has been and continues to be the most generous country on the planet and, you know, the united states, not the government necessarily, a lot of it is ngos, but we have spent almost a billion dollars there now, so we're already in it and we care, the question is whether we're going to spend that money mopping up a massacre, or whether we're going to be there

trying to help prop off new government. >> larry: by the way, if you would like more information about this situation we're discussing tonight, go to sudanactionnow.org. more with george and john right after the break, don't go away. ♪ when it's planes in the sky ♪ ♪ for a chain of supply, that's logistics ♪ ♪ when the parts for the line ♪ ♪ come precisely on time ♪ that's logistics ♪ ♪ a continuous link, that is always in sync ♪ ♪ that's logistics ♪ ♪ there will be no more stress ♪ ♪ cause you've called ups, that's logistics ♪ is a powerful force. set it in motion... and it goes out into the world like fuel for the economy.

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we felt like this was a chance to be able to stop finally, stop a war before it starts. and that's the most important thing. that there is an opportunity here not to start one, but to stop a war before it starts. >> larry: we're back with -- you look up activism, you get george clooney and john prendergast. george, did you travel with private citizens or government auspices.

>> private citizens. we are just -- you know, what we heard over the last -- this is something we had been planning for a bit of time now. it takes a little bit of planning to be able to sort of move inside the country. it's not very easy to do. but you know, we -- we looked around and thought, okay, a lot of people here agree. everyone agrees that there's a cloud, a dangerous cloud coming. the problem is that it needs to be amplified, and, you know, yes, everyone wants to do something. the president wants to do something. the republicans have owned this issue as much, if not more than the democrats. everybody wants to do it in a highly politicized time, maybe the most ever. both sides agree. which we don't get much. this is an opportunity for us as citizens to empower these, you know, our senators, our congressmen, our president, to do as much as he possibly can. again, it's very important we keep saying this. this is not about spending money. this is not about using troops. this is about what we do best, which is robust diplomacy.

>> larry: john, does the u.n. have a strong presence in this? >> the u.n. has a billion-dollar a year peace-keeping mission in southern sudan to go along with the billion-dollar a year peacekeeping mission in darfur. so they're on the ground, not particularly effective -- as effective as we would like to see them be. we would like to see them much more be focused on protecting civilians and the united nations security council led by susan rice came, and they are going to look at how to strengthen the mandate. but they're there, so we have a huge infrastructure that's there. we have a vote looming on january 9. the united nations can be the vehicle for getting those registration materials out, for ensuring that that vote can occur in as credible a fashion

as possible. >> larry: what, george, is the worst-case scenario here? what can happen before january 9th that should trouble us the most? >> well, what can happen before january 9 is that the government of khartoum starts funding smaller groups to start fights, inner fighting, like he did with the john je wee going into darfur to create chaos so they can say, hey, look, the south can't govern itself. the reality is, the worst-case scenario? well, 2.5 million people died in the last war between the north and south that ended in 2005. and the south has a lot more guns and tanks now. so the south is better armed, which means this could really and truly be a bloody war. >> larry: judge why, john, has khartoum been a trouble spot? >> you've got a military coup. their aspirations were to create the first islamic state when oil began to be exploited, primarily thanks to the chinese.

the ideological fervor diminished, and the fervor for making as much money and stealing as much money from the state treasury as possible took its place. you've got a government there that has committed the worst atrocities imaginable, including genocide in darfur, and maintain power by any means necessary, so that cocktail is a pretty lethal one. so our view is, through peace processes, a., we can prevent conflict between the north and the south and end the war in darfur. but secondly, we can also begin to address that absolute power that exists in khartoum and begin to democrattize the country, allowing some competition, political parties, some freedom of the press and the kind of things that generally erode authoritarianism. so it's a bank shot.

we're both looking for a peace around the country, but we're also looking long-term for the democratization of that country which will allow all people in sudan to be free. >> parker spitzer are right here before the show. here's what kathleen and eliot have been talking about recently. take a look. >> reagan when he ran for president in '76 said we need new leadership, unfettered by old ties and old relationships. the tea party people are unfettered by old ties. they're changing america. >> let's talk -- >> wait, wait, wait, richard. that was fascinating, but it didn't answer the question. >> you noticed. [ female announcer ] yoplait's real fruit and the goodness of dairy... gives you a little slice of happy. and happiness comes in 25 delicious flavors. explore them all. yoplait. it is so good. now the yoplait you love in a new four pack.

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i can't get out of the spotlight, no matter what i do. and these people can't get in it, no matter what they do. and they need the spotlight, and i don't. >> just one. that's only once. >> larry: we're back with george clooney and john prendergast, at the national press club talking about the situation in southern sudan where they're just back. he has so much on his plate, george, the president, the

economy, the coming elections. really, how much attention did he focus on this? >> i think for a period of time, probably not as much as he should have. i think that that happens when you have so many other things on your plate. but what is apparent now is that there is a tremendous am of focus. because in some ways, you have to look at it as if this is one that, you know, the president -- there was a peace agreement with the bush administration. we don't want -- he doesn't want to see that be lost. under his administration. so i think now there's a very intensive look at what -- best ways we can find to do this without -- you know, we're in two wars or getting out of one and still escalating another. what we really don't need is any sort of conversations about troops. what we need conversations about is diplomacy. right now, you can do diplomacy. >> larry: i want to get this right, john. this is for both of you. richard williamson, who served a

special envoy for sudan under president bush, has been critical of the obama administration's handling of sudan. he told "time" magazine last month, khartoum is stronger, juba is weaker, the darfur is forgotten. it's an utter shock to anyone who follows this. what is your response, john? >> well, that was a month and a half ago, no question richard is right. i think what we're seeing now is a turn-around in american diplomacy. i think you're seeing the president himself take the reigns and saying even in the midst of this political season in the midst of the crisis, he has tasked people beneath him. and there is nothing like when a president starts pressing buttons to get some action. so they have deployed diplomats to the region to work this issue. it's not enough. we want to see more resolve on the part of the u.s.

and we want to see bigger sticks and bigger carrots that will incentivize the path to peace for the sudanese parties. but there is a trend line going up in terms of level of concern and effectiveness of u.s. diplomacy right now. >> larry: george, of all they've been through, what are the people like? >> they're like everybody else. they want to raise their children in peace. they want to have a job. they want to go to work. they. to, you know, have families. exactly like everyone else. they're -- many of them have only known war. and that's -- and that's a very tough life. i remember being in -- in 2005 or 2006 being in south sudan, and they were young men wearing a garang button, and he was the president of the south sudan, you would call it at the time. and he was killed in a plane crash. and we asked him about his button, and said, you know, are you excited about this peace agreement? and he said, you mean, the cease-fire. and that was in 2006.

and he was, you know, 15. they have known a lot of war here. they have been through it, through the ringer. and they're really looking to this as a great moment. we were there -- the security council came while we were in juba in an emergency mission, all of them, all 15 members, it was a big deal. and all of the children from all of the schools and in their dress shirts were standing out with signs saying, you know, thank you to the u.n., and please help us with peace. >> larry: but doesn't it harden them, george? >> i would imagine it just makes you more resolute. i would imagine. i don't know about hardened. you know, there are certainly people that are hardened. but boy, there's some amazingly -- i mean, just beautifully kind people. >> larry: john, our special enjoy to sudan, the retired

general scott grecian, he has taken heat from some advocacy groups. some have called for his resignation. they're saying he doesn't do enough. what do you think? >> i think we're focused on now the fact that there is such a short time left. general grayson is out there in the region, he is out there, along with other american diplomats. led by a former ambassador, princeton lyman, ambassador in south africa and nigeria, a lot of experience. so they have reinforced the special envoys' office with lots of help. and we're hoping that the obama administration will keep increasing the support for the diplomatic mission in this very short fuse before the january 9 referendum. and give the support to the mediators, all the support they need, generate support in other capitals, because that's part of the answer, is getting beijing, getting cairo, getting london and paris as engaged as the

united states is. in supporting a peaceful settlement to this conflict. >> larry: the role of celebrity and calling attention to the world's crises, how well does that work? i'll ask george about it, next. ! ah! whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what is that? how come my dap wasn't like that? huh? it's just an "us" thing. yeah, it's a little something we do. who else is in this so-called "us"? man, i don't know. there's a lot of us. [ chuckles ] ask your friends what it's like to be part of a group that's 40 million strong. state farm insures more drivers than geico and progressive combined. it's no surprise, with so many ways to save and discounts of up to 40%. so call an agent at 1-800-state-farm or go online.

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back with john prendergast and george clooney. john, you frequently use the word "robust" to explain the diplomacy needed. would you break that down for me? what constitutes robust? >> it's a good question. the one thing we're very good at is diplomacy. we have done that for years and have been very successful at it. we were successful in 2005 in this exact same region. we know the map. it requires -- they're going to have to find -- they're going to decide on a border, they're going to decide on profit sharing, and it's going to require going to the governor of khartoum and saying if you go by all of these rules, and if you -- including darfur, and if

you seek peace, then there can be carrots. there can be rewards for that, including what they would like, which is normalizing some relations with the u.s. on the other hand, we have to use the international community as much as possible to say, on the other hand, if you choose violence, then this is going to -- then khartoum is going to become a very small place, very isolated. he doesn't spend his money in sudanese pounds. it's dollars or euros or english pounds. you know, we were going to go after the assets. and we need the international community to do that. it's robust means robust. and it means quick. >> larry: how do you rate the job that secretary clinton is doing, george? >> i'm a huge fan of hers, and i think she is doing a wonderful job. you know, it's my opinion, but

in my opinion, she is doing a wonderful job. >> larry: john, you on her. what do you think? >> you know, this is the time where we needed secretary clinton to step up for sudan, and she is doing that. she is making calls on an almost daily basis to various world leaders, and to the parties in sudan, so they have stepped up the diplomacy. she promised that's what would happen about a month ago. and she has delivered. so we're very, very appreciative of that and want to see more of the same going forward before january 9. >> i just talked to -- i did just get a message from senator john kerry, who is the ranking member on foreign relations, and he's going to go in the next two weeks. he's going to head to sudan, so it's high on everybody's list right now. >> larry: you met with him and with richard lugar, right? >> i talked to him on the phone. >> larry: were you encouraged by that? >> yes, we were, and with the speaker, nancy pelosi, and we were encouraged by everyone's involvement. of course, it's campaign mode.

and what's nice about it, and what makes this really heartening, is that everyone feels like this is one issue they can all be on the same side on. and there aren't many of those. so that -- we were very -- we felt very good about that. and we felt like, listen, what we need is -- they need now -- they all want to do it, okay? they want to do it. now what makes them do it? everybody at home, you know -- e-mail or write or call the white house. the officials, the legislators that you elect. the people you vote for. empower them by saying, get out there and get into diplomacy before we have to go there and start mopping up blood. >> larry: because after a while, john, it just sounds like numbers, doesn't it? that's tragic. >> it can be numbing. but the good news is, look at places like liberia, we have all seen "blood diamond" the movie. sierra leone. it turns out today it is

completely at peace because there was an investment in ending that war there, investment in ending the war in liberia. those countries are growing rapidly. so this is -- sudan can be next. we can invest in a diplomatic solution, cut off all that -- the billions and billions of dollars of humanitarian aid over the next 20 years if war resumes if we can get ahead of it this time, broker a peaceful settlement and institutions that can end up making the country self-sufficient. >> larry: george, what's not being done? >> well, what's not being done is what we hope is now being done, which is there weren't enough talks. there was a lot of posturing. and you'll find now -- you'll see both sides starting to really push the extreme limits before the big negotiations. that's sort of normal. and we see that in every negotiation you do with anybody. any time.

i negotiate with a studio, that sort of issue. the bottom line is, you're going to see this first. you're going to see that kind of posturing. but what needs to be done now is now we need -- it has to be a constant thumping of diplomacy by everyone involved. you know, china has no interest. you know, we can't shame china, you know, a billion three people into doing things because of humanitarian issues, and i've been there and met with government officials. the truth is, this is economically sound for them. they don't want a war. they have oil wells there, and chinese workers there. and the south sudanese are going to attack those. that's the first place they're going to go, and they're going to blow them up, and they're going to lose their oil flow, and it's going to interrupt it.

the egyptians will have the same problem with water, which they need. water rights. so at the end of the day, there are other players that we have to get involved, simply out of economic reasons. >> larry: george just told you what you can do. for more information about that, about the situation in sudan, go to the website. cnn.com/larryking. that's our website. or go to sudan action now.org. we'll be right back.

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we don't hear. we don't know all of these things that are going on. many people in america don't know that there is a referendum and a vote. they just don't know.

so we want to make sure they know. >> larry: we're back with george clooney and john prendergast. george, we mentioned earlier about celebrity. do you think who you are helps? >> look, i've been very lucky in my life over the years. i was a broke actor and i used to cut tobacco for a living. i got lucky. and part of that, for good or ill, is that a lot of cameras now follow you around. i get much more attention than i need or deserve. and there are an awful lot of people in the world that need some attention. so my job is to try and spread that attention around to the people who need it. that's my job. i'm not a policy maker. my only job is to come out and say, shine a light on -- in an

area, help shine a light on an area that needs it, because we know omar bashir, for instance, operates in the dark, and we know what he does when he operates in the dark. so my job is to help via mega phone for all the activists, the church groups and all of the young college students who carried this. you know, that's all i can do. >> larry: john, how much does he mean? >> well, for example, the issue of abia, which i mentioned earlier, this is the potential kashmir of sudan, the ground zero of a potential next war. left to its own devices, no one covers it, no one cares. if human rights activists like myself go there, and we write a little report, maybe a few hundred people read it. if george goes, we're on "larry king." we're getting on all -- we're getting all kinds of media. the issue is covered. we get a chance to talk to president obama about it. they refocus on the issue. it has an impact.

so as an activist, 25 years working on war and peace in africa, we're really grateful that people like george take an interest and actually invest their time and energy and go to these places and spend time learning about the issues, spending time with the people, and in a modest and humble way. and it's quite an extraordinary thing to see how much attention is garnered for the issue that otherwise would -- the lights would be off. >> also let's be clear. i'm just a mega phone here. all i'm trying to do is turn the volume up. and there are a lot of people doing a lot more work than i am on this issue. >> larry: george, omar al bashir has been indicted by the international criminal court for genocide. why is he still in power? >> well, because we're not going to -- you know, there are funny things that happened, you know. we forget, you know, the u.n. doesn't really have an army. so they're not going to go in and get him. we're not going to go in and get

him. so it puts us in the precarious spot. you know, he's a sitting president who has been indicted. and some other members of harun who have also been indicted, he's right on the border of south sudan. it makes it a very difficult position for us. but you can continually tighten their ability to maneuver and to do things by taking away -- by going after their assets. >> larry: have you met with him? >> no, i haven't. i went to khartoum, which was an interesting trip. and went to a lot of the idp camps there. but -- i asked to meet with him, but he didn't -- i think i had

said a few things that probably got me in a little bit of trouble with him. >> larry: how about the president of southern sudan, salva kiir, have you meet with him? >> several times. john knows. we had a good couple hours with him just talking about the possibilities of war, and how resolute they are in -- not just in the referendum and voting for their independence, but that this area with all the oil, abia is part of the south. and if they tried to peel it off, that would create war. >> larry: americans facing so many serious issues here at home. we'll ask george and john how that impacts their cause. that's next. we're back with george and john how that papaling packs their cause next.

we're back with george clooney and john prendergast. how much of this fight that you engage in, if we can call it a fight, are you hampered by the fact of americans have greater interests, george? >> well, you know, sure, there's doannar fatigue in certain ways. we're not asking for any money. hampered, no. because the american people have a tremendous capacity to care. and here's the truth. the truth of the matter is this. if i put it to you like this, if you took two minutes out of your day, out of one day, just today or tomorrow, to write an e-mail, it's a modern day now, we're e-mailing, and twittering and facebooking. write an e-mail to the white house saying, please do everything you can, diplomatly, again, not causing any money, not costing any soldiers.

do everything you can. you have my support, even if i didn't vote for you. you know, the same thing to senator lugar and the same thing to senator kerry, and just e-mail. two minutes out of your day. you could be -- you would be part of a voice of people that could say they stopped this genocide. they stopped this war. genocide is a word that is thrown around too easily. they stopped what is predicted to be a massacre. >> larry: so that simple. you're watching this show, take two minutes. >> take two minutes. it's amazing the effect of one person's voice. >> we have made it easy for people. sudan action now.org, sign the form there, can you say somize an e-mail and send it straight to the white house literally in and out in two minutes. >> larry: "time" magazine recently quoted a sudan analyst saying he thinks both north and south sudan recognize that a return for is not in their interests. that's optimistic.

you agree with that, george? >> well, you might want to talk to john about that, but yes, i agree they don't think it's necessarily in their best interest. but i would also say that, you know, if you're omar al bashir, and you're the president of this country, and you're losing the south, and you're losing the oil, and the revenues from the oil, and also with the -- with the ability then to -- for regime change, i think you go very -- you know, it's a very -- it's a very long faithful stretch to think that they're going to go away peacefully. >> larry: a slippery slope. it's time for tonight's cnn hero. one of our top ten honorees selected by a blue ribbon panel. here's a look at a chef who walked away from an award-winning career to help others. watch. >> hello, i'm debi mazar. last year i had the honor of helping to recognize the great works of everyday people changing the world at cnn heroes, an all-star tribute.

as a supporter of the midnight mission, i'm committed to helping the homeless and the hungry through feeding and support services. and this year, i will thrilled to help introduce the top honorees of 2010. now more than ever the world needs heroes. >> because of the poverty in their faces, too many people are being abandoned. i saw a very old man eating his own human waste for food. it really hurt me so much. i was working for a five-star hotel as a chef. but the old man changed everything. my name is naryanan krishnan. i feed and care for the abandoned and mentally ill. i get up at 4:00 in the morning. every meal is prepared fresh. people are waiting for us. they totally rely on the food which we give. we are feeding almost 400 people

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>> the biggest neighbor is, of course, the one that has the biggest interest, is egypt. and egypt, of course, a long-time ally of the united states, particularly with respect to middle east peace. the nile flows from many of those nine countries northward into egypt. and egypt is dependent upon the nile river for its economic lifeline and they need an increased flow of the nile water for the future of survival of industry and agriculture in egypt going forward. so they need southern sudan to be peaceful so they can create the kind of canal systems that will push additional water flow northward into egypt. so war would undermine --

dramatically undermine the prospect for egypt's future. so that alone should be one of the countries that the united states invests in in a diplomatic effort to try to bring the sudanese to peace. >> larry: george, what about the threat of military action? >> you know, it's always a trick because the idea of a threat doesn't work if you're really not going to do anything about it. threats are tricky. every once in a while you want -- when you're there and you see a family that's just been devastated, the first thing you think is, come in here and get these guys. there's no way to not feel that way. but the truth of the matter is, i don't think we're in the position right now to do it. and i don't think we would move the ball any further right now to do it. i think what we really need is to get in and say, here are all of the options that we will give you, which is big, big, big

sticks if you screw up and some options to get out of this if you do the right thing. >> larry: you think a vote's going to happen, john? >> i think it's one of those things where the big ingredient is american leadership and american diplomacy. if that's stewarded in the correct manner and enough support is given by the president and by the congress and the american people, we have the chance to prevent this war from happening and the vote to occur on january 9th. i'm optimistic that we'll do the right thing. after meeting yesterday -- george and i meeting with president obama, we have a lot of confidence in him. he needs to hear from the american public that it's okay to do as much as he has to do to make it happen. >> larry: i'll ask george about sudan's instability after the break. or this. or this. you definitely couldn't do this. play kate's mix.

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>> larry: a recent guest on this show, libya's momar kadafi said this would provoke instability and frighten off investors. what do you make of that? >> here's the thing. when you begin these

negotiations everyone goes as far as they can to one side or the other and the rhetoric becomes pretty extreme. it has to. that's how a negotiation works because you're going to eventually give. kadafi was making an effort to negotiate at some point in this. it's rhetoric. it's always rhetoric. and with him, it's almost always red rick. rhetoric. but at the end of the day, would there be fears of all that stuff? sure. here's the point. let's give it the best case scenario, the south sudan gets their peace, they get their independence and they start their government. there's still going to be efforts to make sure it's not a failed state. this is a long process. but what's important now is we know what happens when we don't act. we didn't act fast enough in the congo. we didn't act fast enough in darfur. we didn't act fast enough in rwanda and we know what happens

when we don't. and it's going to cost us billions because we're going to be there. it's better to do it now. >> larry: we think of darfur, we think of you. how did you come to be so personally involved in that area? >> i was reading articles in "the new york times" and it was n'tgetting -- everybody was doing things. there were church groups and student movements and there was a lot of rumblings and a lot of things going on, great activists doing a lot of enough and ngos but it wasn't getting enough play. and i'm the son of a news man. my dad used to talk about how he would have a news story get bumped because some celebrity was on tv after he had gone and covered a news story. so i said, let's go to darfur and you be the news man and i'll be the celebrity and we'll combine them. and whether it works or not, i don't know. all i know is my job is to just try and make it loud because when it's loud like this, people

tend to move. i don't know if movement is always helpful but you can't do without moving. >> larry: at the emmys, you were honored with the bob hope humanitarian award. i know it meant a great deal to you. but you used that moment to speak and ask others to get involved. do you think that's working? >> my asking others to get involved, i don't think, would make much of a difference. i think that people are involved. listen, let me tell you, go to south sudan into a tiny little village like lul, you have to ride 2 1/2 hours on a boat. and you get to a little tiny camp, a village has been overrun and a camp set up with some internally displaced people. and there sits a 22-year-old girl who got there from kansas who came there because she