and if needed, we help fix the identity theft. don't wait another minute. call now. go with the industry leader. join lifelock and get alerts to important information, a one million dollar service guarantee... plus a team of identity theft protection specialists. enroll now and get ten percent off your enrollment... for you and your entire family with today's special offer. call today and mention i.d. alert... or go to lifelock.com. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> larry: tonight, george clooney on the ticking time bomb that he says we can't ignore. >> this is the place that's at most risk in the world right

now. >> larry: he has president obama's attention. now he wants the world to wake up to a threat that could result in a million deaths. >> they have been captured, and they have been sold and kor tured and raped and murdered. >> larry: is time running out in sudan? george clooney for the hour is next on "larry king live." >> larry: good evening. i've got a little catch in my throat tonight. george clooney is the academy award winning actor and activist just back from a trip to southern sudan, a region that secretary of state hillary clinton describes as a ticking time bomb. with john is george pendergast. the founder of the "enough" project, an organization

co-author of the book "enough moment: fighting to end america's worst human rights crimes." they join us from the national press club in washington. when people hear your name, george, in connection with the sudan, they probably think of darfur, which is in the northwest. this time you were in the south. why? >> well, we're in the south because there was a peace agreement, there was a war here that ended in 2005 with a peace agreement brokered by the united states. and they have the right to vote now for their independence from the north. the north being the same people who acted against darfur, the government of kartomb. the south now has the right to vote for their own independence. the international community, the

president, the congress, the u.n., everyone believed this was the place that's most at risk in the world right now. >> larry: at most risk in the world. a ticking time bomb. why, george? why there? >> it's sort of economics in a way. there's oil on the border. so the north wants to move the border further down, because there's oil right on that edge. the south wants to keep it, because it's underneath their feet. so there's economic reasons for it in general. there's a lot of reasons, believe me, it's very complicated. but that's a big one. what's going to be required is some form of profit sharing, comes up with -- designate where the border would be. there's a lot of complications to it. right now the governor of khartoum has had two opportunities to act without war and they have chosen war and

atrocities. so to think they wouldn't the third time when there's this much at stake, would be naive at best. >> larry: john, how long were you there, and where did you go? >> we went for a week on this last trip, and we traveled all over the border region, including this place about the size of connecticut called abe, which everyone thinks if the war does begin again, it will begin there in abe. and we've got to figure out as part of the diplomatic surge that the obama administration has announced, figure out a way to address the concerns of the people that live there in the broader puzzle of the different interests of the two parties. it's all negotiable. and that's the good news, the bad news is that we only have 88 days until the referendum for southern independence. the good news is that we have 88 days in order to stop a war before it starts and that's what

our message was yesterday to president obama is to say this is something that can actually be prevented before it starts. >> larry: and how receptive was he, john? >> not only receptive, but i think ahead of the curve. and certainly we have been concerned that for the first year and a half of his administration there wasn't enough focus placed on sudan. but he has become concerned with sudan, secretary of state and some others in his administration and we're starting to see some real action. so he wants to do more. the republicans in the senate and the house want to do more. we met with richard luger, the senator from indiana and we have met with a number of other representatives and senators. everybody wants to do more, and now is the time to do it with such a short fuse left. >> larry: what struck you the most in this most recent trip? >> what struck me the most was their resolve. i mean, they are -- they, to a person, not only are going to vote for independence, look,

these are people who have been truly, you know, they have been captured, and they have been sold, and they have been tortured, and they have been raped and murdered. and they believe they have a right for independence now, and that the international community agreed to it. they believe that they're going to have that independence starting on the 9th of january. and to a man, to a person, every single one of them said they're willing to fight and die for that freedom. and that's -- that was the strongest thing we saw. >> larry: john, you know, the rest of the world hears about this, such prominent people as yourself, george clooney go. we hear numbers. do we turn away? does the world care? >> well, the good news about sudan, and the remarkable thing, frankly, about sudan, is that you have over the last ten years developing constituency of

conscien conscience. people around the world rooted in churches, synagogues, universities and high schools where students and people of faith respond to the suffering of the people of sudan. and say, indeed we are our brothers and sisters' keepers. we need to do all we can. we don't have to send american troops, spends tens of billions of dollars. we need to invest in a diplomacy to prevent and resolve the conflict in southern sudan, resolve the conflict in darfur, and bring peace to these people. >> also, larry, i want to sort of add to that, when it's, do we care, the truth is, america has been and continues to be the most generous country on the planet. and, you know, the united states, not the government necessarily, a lot of it's ngos, but we spend almost $1 billion there now. so we're already there. and we're in it. and we care. the question will be whether or not we're going to spend that money mopping up a massacre, or

whether we're going to be there trying to help prop up a new government. >> larry: by the way, if you'd like more information about this situation we're discussing tonight, go to sudanactionnow.org. more with george and john right after the break. don't go away. [ coughing ] [ male announcer ] got a cold? [ sniffles ]

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we felt like this was a chance to be able to stop, finally stop a war before it starts. and that's the most important thing. that there's an opportunity here not to start one, but to stop a war before it starts. >> larry: we're back with, you look up activism, you get pictures of george clooney and john prendergrant. george, did you travel as private citizens or government auspices? >> private citizens. you know, what we heard over the -- this is something we've been planning for a bit of time now. it takes a little bit of planning to be able to sort of move inside the country. it's not very easy to do. but, you know, we looked around and thought, okay, a lot of people here agree. everyone agrees there's a cloud,

a dangerous cloud coming. the problem is -- it needs to be amplified. and, you know, yes, everyone wants to do something. the president wants to do something, the republicans have owned this issue as much if not more than the democrats. everybody wants to do it in a highly politicized time. maybe the most ever. both sides agree. which we don't get much of. this is an opportunity for us as citizens to empower these -- you know, our senators, our congressmen, our president to do as much as he possibly can. again, it's very important we keep saying this, this is not about spending money. and this is not about using troops. this is about what we do best. which is robust diplomacy. >> larry: john, does the u.n. have a strong presence in this? >> the u.n. has $1 billion-a-year peacekeeping mission in southern sudan to go along with the $1 billion-a year

peacekeeping mission in darfur. so they're on the ground. not particularly as effective as we'd like to see them be. we would like to see them much more focused on protecting civilians and the united nations security council while we were there led by susan rice, american representative to the u.n., came and they are going to look at how to strengthen the mandate. but they're there. so we have a huge infrastructure that's there. we have a vote looming on january 9. the united nations can be the vehicle for guesting those registration materials out to ensuring that the vote occurs in the most credible fashion as possible. >> larry: what, george, is the worst-case scenario here? what can happen before january 9th that should trouble us the most? >> well, what can happen before january 9th is that the government of khartoum starts funding smaller groups to start fights, inner fighting, like he

did with the janjawe going into darfur, to create chaos, so he can say, the south, look, it can't govern itself. the reality is, worst case scenario, 2.5 million people died in the war in 2005, and the south has a lot more guns and tanks now. the south is better armed, which means this could truly be a very bloody war. >> larry: why, john, has khartoum always been a trouble spot? >> i think you've got a government there that took power in 1989 by a military coups. their aspirations were to create the first islamic state, when oil began to be exploited primarily thanks to the chinese, the etiological fervor diminished and stealing as much money from the state treasury as possible took its place. you've got a government there that has committed the worst

atrocities imaginable, including genocide in darfur, and maintain power by any means necessary. so that cocktail is a pretty lethal one. so our view is, through peace processes, a, we can prevent conflict between the north and the south, and end the war in darfur, but secondly, we can also begin to address that absolute power that exists in khartoum, and begin to cratize the country, and allowing some freedom of the press and the kind of things that generally erode authoritarianism. so we're both looking for a peace around the country, but also looking long term for the de mock ra tiization of that country. >> larry: right before the show, here's what katherine and elliott have been talking about earlier. >> reagan said we need new leadership. leadership unfettered by old

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i can't get out of the spotlight, no matter what i do. and these people can't get it in, no matter what they do. they need the spotlight and i don't. >> larry: we're back with george clooney and john prendergast there at the national press club. we're talking about the situation in southern sudan, where they're just back. he has so much on his plate, george, the president, the economy, the coming elections. really, how much attention did he focus on this? >> i think for a period of time, not as much as he should have. i think that that happens when you have so many other things on your plate. but what is apparent now is that there's a tremendous amount of focus. because in some ways, you have to look at as if, this is one

that, you know, the president, there's a peace agreement with the bush administration. we don't want to -- he doesn't want to see that be lost. under his administration. so now i think there's a very intensive look at the best ways we can find to do this without -- you know, we're in two wars. or getting out of one and still escalating another. what we really don't need is any sort of conversations about troops. what we need conversations about is diplomacy. right now you can do diplomacy. >> larry: i want to get this right. john, this is for both of you. richard williamson who served as special envoy for sudan under president bush, critical of the obama administration's handling of sudan. he told "time" magazine last month, khor toum is stronger, juba is weaker, the darfuris feel forgotten. it's an utter shock to anyone who follows this. what's your response, john?

>> well, that was a month, month and a half ago. no question richard was right. i think what we're seeing now is a turn-around in american diplomacy. i think you're seeing the president himself take the reins and even in the midst of all the crisis, he's tasked people underneath him and he's gotten involved directly. and there's nothing like it when a president starts pressing buttons to get some action. and so they've deployed diplomats out to the region to work this issue. it's not enough. we still want to see even more resolve on the part of the u.s. and we want to see bigger sticks and bigger carrots that will incentivize the path to peace for the sudanese parties. but we are encouraged and there is a trend line in the level of concern and effectiveness of u.s. diplomacy right now. >> larry: george, with all they've been through, what are the people like? >> they're like everybody else. they want to raise their children in peace.

they want to have a job. they want to go to work. they want to, you know, have families. exactly like everyone else. many of them have only known war. and that's -- and that's a very tough life. i remember being in 2005 -- 2006 being in south sudan and there were young men warring garang buttons. he was the president of south sudan, i guess you would call it, at the time. and he was killed in a plane crash. and we asked them about their buttons. we said, are you excited about this peace agreement. and he said, you mean the cease-fire? and that was in 2006. so these are people -- and he was, you know, 15. they've known a lot of war here. and they've been through it -- through the wringer. and they're really looking to this at a great moment. the security council came while we were in juba, in an emergency

mission. all 15 members. a big deal. and all the children from all over the schools in their dress shirts were standing out with signs saying, you know, thank you to the u.n. and please help us with peace. >> larry: but doesn't it harden them, george? >> i would imagine it just makes you more resolute. i don't know about hardened. you know, there are certainly people that are hardened. but boy, there are some amazingly -- i mean, just beautifully kind people. >> larry: john, our special envoy to sudan, the retired general, he's taking heat from advocacy groups. some have called for his resignation, saying he doesn't do enough. what do you think? >> i think what we're focused on now is the fact that there's such a short time left. general grayson is out there in the region. he's out there along with other american diplomats.

led by a former ambassador, princeton lieman, who was an am boss dor in nigeria. they reinforced the office with lots of help. we're basically hoping that the obama administration will keep increasing the support for the diplomatic mission in this very short fuse before the january 9 referendum. and give the support to the mediators, all the support they need, generate support in other capitals, because that's part of the answer is getting beijing, getting cairo, getting lon c london and paris as engaged as the united states is in supporting a peaceful settlement to this conflict. >> larry: the role of celebrity and calling attention to the world crises, how well does that work? i'll ask george about it next. [ male announcer ] it's simple physics...

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or trouble breathing. tell your doctor about your medical history and find an arthritis treatment that works for you. ask your doctor about celebrex. and, go to celebrex.com to learn more about how you can move toward relief. celebrex. for a body in motion. >> larry: we're back with john prendergast and george clooney. george, you frequently use the

term robust for the diplomacy needed. would you break that down for me? what constitutes robust? >> well, that's a good question. you know, the one thing we're very good at is diplomacy. we've done that for years. and we've been very successful at it. we were successful in 2005 in this exact same region. we know the map. it requires they're going to decide on a border, they're going to decide on profit sharing and it's going to require going to the governor of khartoum and saying, if you go by all of these rules, and if you -- including darfur, and if you seek peace, then there can be carrots, there can be rewards for that, including what they'd like, which is normalizing some relations with the u.s. on the other hand, we have to use the international community as much as possible to say, on the other hand, if you choose violence, then this is going to -- then khartoum's going to

become a very small place, very isolated. he doesn't spend his money in sudanese pounds. it's dollars, or euros, or english pounds. you know, we're going to go after the assets and we need the international community to do that. it's ro -- robust means robust. and it means quick. >> larry: how do you rate the job that secretary clinton is doing, george? >> i'm a huge fan of hers. i think she's doing a wonderful job. it's my opinion, but in my opinion, she's doing a wonderful job. >> larry: john, you on her? what do you think? >> this is the time where we needed secretary clinton to step up for sudan, and she's doing that. she's making calls on an almost daily basis to various world leaders. and to the parties in sudan. so they've stepped up the diplomacy. she promised that's what would happen about a month ago. and she's delivered. so we're very, very appreciative

of that and want to see more of the same going forward before january 9. >> i just talked to -- i just got a message from senator john kerry, who is the ranking member on foreign relations, and he's going to go in the next two weeks, he's going to head to sudan. so it's high on everybody's list right now. >> larry: you met with him and with richard luger, right? were you encouraged by -- >> talked to them on the phone. >> larry: were you encouraged by that? >> yes, we were, and with the speaker nancy pelosi. we were encouraged by everyone's involvement. of course, it's campaign mode. and what's nice about it, and what makes this really heartening is that everyone feels like this is one issue they can all be on the same side on. and there aren't many of those. so we were very -- we felt very good about that. and we feel like, listen, what we need is -- they need now, they'll want to do it. they want to do it. now, what makes them do it?

everybody at home, you know, e-mail or write or call the white house. the officials, the legislators that you elect, the people that you vote for, empower them by saying, get out there and get into diplomacy before we have to go there and start mopping up blood. >> larry: after a while, john, it just sounds like numbers, doesn't it? that's tragic. >> it can be numbing. but the good news is, look at places like liberia and sierra leone. sierra leone is a functioning democracy today, completely at peace because there was an investment in ending that war there. investment in ending the war in liberia. those countries are growing rapidly. so this is -- sudan can be next. we can invest in a diplomatic solution, cut off all the billions and billions of dollars of humanitarian aid over the next 20 years if we can get

ahead of it this time. broker a peaceful settlement and invest in the kind of governing institutions that can end up making the country self-reliant and self-sufficient. >> larry: george, what's not being done? >> well, what's not being done is what we hope is now being done, which is, there weren't enough talks. there was a lot of posturing. and you'll find now, you'll see both sides starting to really push the extreme limits before the big negotiations. that's sort of normal. and we see that in every negotiation you do with anybody. anytime. negotiate with a studio, that sort of issue. the bottom line is, you're going to see this first. you're going to see that kind of posturing. but what needs to be done now is we need to -- it has to be a constant thumping of diplomacy by everyone involved. you know, china has no interest -- you know, we can't shame china, you know, 1.3

billion people to do the right thing because of humanitarian issues. i've been there and met with the government officials. the truth is, this is economically sound for them. they don't want a war. they have oil wells there. and chinese workers there. and the south sudanese are going to attack those. that's the first place they're going to go and they're going to blow them up and they're going to lose their oil flow. and it's going to interrupt it. the egyptians will have the same problem with water, which they need. water rights. so at the end of the day, there are other players that we have to get involved, simply out of economic reasons. >> larry: george has told you what you can do. for more information about that, about the situation in sudan, go to the website, cnn.com/larry king. that's our website. or go to sudanactionnow.org. we'll be right back. may be possible. in pursuit of this goal, lexus developed the world's most advanced driving simulator,

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we don't hear. we don't know all of these things that are going on. many people in america don't know there's a referendum in the vote. they just don't know. so we want to make sure they know. >> larry: we're back with george clooney and john prendergast. george, we mentioned earlier about celebrity. do you think who you are helps? >> look, i've been very lucky in my life over the years. i was a broke actor. i got lucky.

and part of that, for good or ill, is that a lot of cameras now follow you around. i get much more attention than i need, or deserve. and there are an awful lot of people in the world that need some attention. so my job is to try and spread that attention around to the people who need it. that's my job. i'm not a policymaker. my only job is to come out and say, shine a light on -- in an area, help shine alightf light on an area that needs it, because we know, omar bashir, for instance, operates in the dark. and we know what he does when he operates in the dark. so my job is just try to be a megaphone, to be an activist for the church groups and young college students who carried this. that's all i can do. >> larry: john, how much does he mean? >> for example, the issue that i mentioned earlier, the potential

kashmir of sudan, the ground zero of the next war, left to its own devices, no one covers it. no one cares. if human rights activists like myself go there, and we write a little report, maybe a few hundred people read it. if george goes, we're on larry king. we're getting on all -- we're getting all kinds of media. the issue is covered. we get a chance to talk to president obama about it. they refocus on the issue. it has an impact. so as an activist 25 years working on war and peace in africa, we're really grateful that people like george take an interest and actually invest their time and energy and go to these places and spend time learning about the issues, spending time with the people, in a modest and humble way. and it's quite an extraordinary thing to see how much attention is garnered for the issue that otherwise would -- the lights would be off.

>> let's be clear. i'm just a megaphone here. all i'm trying to do is turn the volume up. and there are a lot of people who are doing a lot more work than i am on this issue. >> larry: george, northern sudan's president, omar el bashir, he's been indicted by the international court for genocide. why is he still in power? >> well, because we're not going to -- you know, there are funny things that happen. we forget the u.n. doesn't really have an army. so they're not going to go in and get him. we're not going to go in and get him. so it puts us in a precarious spot. he's a sitting president who's been indicted. and some other members who have also been indicted, he's right on the border of south sudan. it makes it a very difficult position for us. but you can continually tighten

the -- their ability to maneuver and do things by taking away, by going after their assets. >> larry: have you met with him? >> no, i haven't. i went to khartoum, which was an interesting trip. and went to a lot of the idp camps there. i asked to meet with him, but he didn't -- i think i said a few things that probably got me in a little bit of trouble with him. >> larry: how about the president of southern sudan, have you met with him? >> several times. john knows him very well. we had two days in a row where we spent a good couple of hours with him, just talking about the possibilities of war. and how resolute they are in -- not just in the referendum and voting for their independence, that this area with all the oil is part of the south. and if they tried to peel it off, that that would create war.

>> larry: americans facing so many serious issues here at home. we'll ask george and john how that impacts their cause. that's next. [ woman ] alright, so this tylenol 8 hour lasts 8 hours. but aleve can last 12 hours. and aleve was proven to work better on pain than tylenol 8 hour. so why am i still thinking about this? how are you? good, how are you? [ male announcer ] aleve. proven better on pain.

>> larry: we're back with george clooney and john prendergast. how much of this fight that you engage in, if we can call it a fight, are you hampered by the fact of americans have greater interests, george? >> well, you know, sure, there's donor fatigue in certain ways. we're not asking for any money.

you know, hampered, no. because the american people have a tremendous capacity to care. and here's the truth. the truth of the matter is this, if i put it to you like this, if you took two minutes out of your day, out of one day, just today, or tomorrow, to write an e-mail, it's modern day, now we're e-mailing and twittering and facebooking, write an e-mail to the white house saying, please do everything you can, diplomatically, again, not costing any money, not costing any soldiers, do anything you can. you have my support, even if i didn't vote for you. the same thing to senator luger, and the same thing to senator kerry and the same thing to -- just e-mail, two minutes out of your day. you could be -- you would be part of a voice of people that could say they stopped this genocide. they stopped this war. genocide is a war that gets thrown around too easily. they stop what is predicted to

be a massacre. >> larry: watching this show, take two minutes. >> take two minutes. it's amazing the effect of one person's voice. >> larry: you'-- >> you can customize an e-mail and send it straight to the white house. >> larry: "time" magazine recently quoted a sudan analyst for a crisis group saying he thinks both north and south sudan recognize that a return forum is not in their interest. do you agree with that, george? >> you might want to talk to john about that. but yes, i agree they don't think it's necessarily in their best interests. but i would also say that, you know, if you're omar al bashir and you're the president of this country, and you're losing the south, and you're losing the oil, and the revenues from the

oil, and also with the ability then to -- for regime change, i think you go very -- you know, it's a very long faithful stretch to think that they're going to go away peacefully. >> larry: a slippery slope. it's time for tonight's cnn hero. one of our top ten honorees selected by a blue-ribbon panel. here's a look at a chef who walked away from an award-winning career to help others. watch. last year i had the honor of helping to recognize the great works of everyday people changing the world at "cnn heroes" in an all-star tribute. as a supporter of the midnight commission, i'm committed to helping the homeless and hungry. i'm thrilled to introduce the top ten honorees of 2010. now more than ever, the world needs heroes. >> because of the poverty, too

many people are being abandoned. i saw a demand. it really hurt me so much. i was working for a five-star hotel as a chef. but the old man changed everything. i feed and care for the abandoned and mentally ill. i get up at 4:00 in the morning. every meal is prepared fresh. people are waiting for us. they totally rely on the food which we give. we are feeding almost 400 people three meals a day around the clock. the happiness i see in their face keeps me going. i want to save my people. and i feel that is the purpose of my life. ♪ client comes in and they have a box.

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>> larry: now, remaining

moments, gentlemen, what about the role of other nations in the region? nine countries border sudan. what's their part, george? john? either one. >> let john. john's been in all of those. >> the biggest neighbor is, of course, the one that has the biggest interest is egypt. and egypt, of course, a long-time ally of the united states, particularly with respect to middle east peace. the nile flows from many of those nine countries northward into egypt. and egypt is dependent upon the nile river for its economic lifeline. and they need an increased flow of the nile water for the future survival of industry and agriculture in egypt going forward. so they need southern sudan to be peaceful, so that they can create the kind of canal systems that will push additional water flow northward into egypt.

so war is -- would undermine, dramatically undermine the economic prospects for egypt's future. so that alone should be one of the countries that the united states invests in in a diplomatic effort to try to bring the sudanese to peace. >> larry: george, what about the threat of military action? >> you know, it's always a trick, because the idea of a threat doesn't work if you're really not going to do anything about it. threats are tricky. you know, every once in a while you want some -- listen, when you're there and you see a family that's just been devastated, the first thing you think is, come in here and get these guys. there's no way to not feel that way. but the truth of the matter is, i don't think we're in the position right now to do it. and i don't think -- and i don't think we would be move the ball any further right now to do it. i think what we really need is to get in and say, here are all of the options that we will give

you, which is big, big, big sticks, if you screw up, and some options to get out of this if you do the right thing. >> larry: do you think a vote's going to happen, john? >> i think that it's one of those things where the big ingredient is american leadership and american diplomacy. and if that's stewarded in the correct manner, and enough support is given by the president and by the congress and the american people, we have the chance to prevent this war from happening and the vote to happen on january 9th. i'm optimistic. after george and i meeting with president obama, we have a lot of confidence in him. he needs to hear from the american public that he needs to do as much as he has to do to make it happen. >> larry: [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus rushes relief for all-over achy colds.

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so call an agent at 1-800-state-farm or go online. >> larry: george, a recent guest on this show, libya's muammar gadhafi saying southern sudan is going independent which spread like a disease in africa provoking instability and frightening off investors. what do you make of that? >> well, here's the one thing you know is, like we were talking about before, when you begin these negotiations,

everyone goes, as far as they can to one side or the other. and the rhetoric becomes pretty extreme. it has to. that's how the negotiations work. because you're going to eventually give. gadhafi was making an effort to negotiate at one point in this. it's rhetoric. it's always rhetoric. with him, it's almost always rhetoric. but at the end. day, would there be fears of all that stuff? sure. here's the point. let's say the -- let's give it the best case scenario. the south sudan gets their peace. they get their independence. and they start their government. there's still going to be efforts to make sure it's not a failed state. this is a long process. but what's important now is, we know what happens when we don't act. we didn't act fast enough in the congo. we didn't act fast enough in darfur. we didn't act fast enough in rwanda. we know what happens if we

don't. it costs us billions. because we're going to be there. so it's better to do it now. >> larry: george, we think of darfur, we think of you. how did you become so personally so involved in that area? >> i was reading nick cristoff's articles in "the new york times." everybody was doing things. there were church groups and student movements and there was a lot of rumblings and great activists doing a lot of stuff. and ngos. but it wasn't getting enough play. and i'm the son of a newsman. my dad used to talk about he would have a news story get bumped because they ended up putting some celebrity on tv instead after he had gone and covered a news story. so i thought, let's go to darfur. and you be the newsman and i'll be the celebrity and we'll combine them. whether it works or not, i don't know. all i know is, my job is to just try and make it loud. because, you know, when it's loud like this, people tend to

do move. i don't know if moving is always helpful, but you can't do it without moving. >> larry: a couple of other quick things. at the emmys you were honored with the bob hope humanitarian award. i knew it meant a great deal to you. but you used that moment to speak and ask others to get involved. do you think that's working? >> my asking others to get involved i don't think would make much of a difference. i think people are involved. i think -- listen, let me tell you, go to south sudan into a tiny little village like lul, you have to ride for two and a half hours on a boat. it's impossible to get to. you get to a little tiny camp that's just been overrun, a village that's been overrun and a camp set up with some internally displaced people, and there sits 22-year-old girl who got there, you know, from kansas, who came there because