road with the cnn election express, hitting charlotte, north carolina, and tampa, florida, we'll see you on the road as we continue on the road to election midterms. thank you to kate bolduan. good to have you back. >> thanks for having me. >> now get on out of here. >> see ya. >> candy crowley starts right now. thank you for spending your sunday morning with us here on "cnn sunday morning." see you back here real soon. if ever there was a power roika, politics, television and money. an estimated $3 billion will be spent on tv ads this election season. >> tax, borrow or spend. >> john boehner, paul ryan and mill backman are planning a sneak attack on social security and medicare. >> she supported obamacare.

>> and that threatens our lives. >> 28 years of barbara boxer and america is going broke. >> none of these ads are from the candidates or even their parties. these ads were paid for by a particular category of non-profit independent organizations not required to tell who gives them the money that pays for the ads. this year, all outside groups favoring republican candidates or causes are outspending those who favor democrats by more than 6:1. if you can't beat 'em, pummel them so democrats are. >> to win this election, they are plowing tens of millions of dollars into front groups that are running misleading, negative ads all across america. tens of billions of dollars are pouring in. and they don't have the courage to stand up and disclose their identities, they could be insurance companies, or wall street banks or foreign-owned corporations. we will not know because there's no disclosure. >> are voters being duped as

they sit in front of their tvs or amid continuing signs of a grim election day ahead are democrats trying to rouse the party faithful with warnings of sinister forces at play? -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com today, 16 days to the election white house adviser david axelrod on the control of congress and the president's accusations of mystery money tipping the balance. then conservative activist gary bauer involved in two of the many outside groups pumping money into this year's election. plus, assessing the impact of all those ads and all that cash with "time" magazine's me duffy and veteran ad analyst evan tracy. i'm candy crowley, and this is "state of the union." no matter how much money is spent this election season, next january president obama will, in all hikely hood, have to work in a very different political reality that includes fewer democrats and more republicans on capitol hill. in a wide ranging interview in

today's "new york times" magazine, peter baker offers a glimpse in to what an aide called obama 2.0. i keep a checklist of what we have committed to doing, the president says and we've probably accomplished 70% of the things that we talked about during the campaign and i hope as long as i'm president i've got a chance to work on the other 30%. that 30% includes immigration and energy reform and reining in government spending in great times of need. joining me is david axelrod, senior adviser to the president, up in boston today. thanks so much for joining us. >> happy to be here, candy, thanks. >> let me start first before we get to campaign spending with the president's last two years agenda in his first term. what is the single most important priority come the end of january? >> well, look, we have two continuing priorities, one is to generate more growth and jobs. that's fundamental. we're still digging out from the

worst recession since the great depression, and there's been a lot of devastation from that, that we have to heal, and that means accelerating our recovery. we've had nine straight months of private sector job growth but we need more of it, so that's certainly going to continue to be a focus but in the mid and long-term, we do also have to focus on our fiscal situation. we didn't just inherity a financial crisis and an economic crisis but also a fiscal crisis and we have to deal with that, and lay the foundation for future growth, fiscal reform is part of that, energy is a part of that, managing the health reform. >> what about immigration? >> -- is part of that, education reform is part of that and er certainly immigration is an issue we want to attack. a couple years ago 11 republicans in the united states senate who worked with democrats to try and pass immigration reform. there were none in this last

couple of years, but it's an issue we have to solve. we have to impose some responsibility and accountability on this system, and on people who are here illegally, on the borders, on employers who are skirting the law. we also have to address the issue of people who are coming here to study, they're being educated in american universities, and then they go back to their countries because our immigration laws don't allow them to stay, they go back to their countries and so we create assets. for foreigno o competitors. immigration is certainly part of the agenda we want to address going forward. >> one of the things in the interview i found in the interview with peter baker the president said look, if the republicans win in this election, they're going to have to prove they can lead if they take over a majority. if they lose they'll be more contrite and have to work with me. what does the president have to do and what is very likely to be that changing political

environment. does he have to change a thing in. >> canndy from the moment we arrived here our goal and aspiration was to get past this very destructive hyperpartisan environment in washington because we had big challenges to solve, one of our great disappointments was that the republican party made a political decision essentially not to cooperate. >> what does the president have to do. >> i understand but candy, but candy t takes two to tango. the president -- >> sure. >> -- i never forget the president going up to the house to talk to them about the recovery act and the entire republican house caucus issuing a statement before he arrived saying they were going to vote en masse against his plan. >> so you think it's all the atmosphere is all the republicans? >> so we both have responsibilities for the future of the country. so what i'm saying is we're going to continue to reach out, candy, and we're going to look for common ground and way to look forward to solve the problems facing this country and we're hoping that the republicans will have more seats

in congress regardless of whether they have control or not. we're hoping where w that comes a greater sense of responsibility. the last two years weren't encouraging, but perhaps the future will be. i think that it's up to us to extend our hand as we have before, it's up to them to decide whether they're going to take it or whether they're going to do what they've done for the last two years. >> let me turn to you the economy here, because the fed chief ben bernanke said this past week that the economy is more sluggish than he thought, that he believes given this current conditions of the economy that unemployment is going to remain high for perhaps the next couple of years was the indication, he was talking about the fed having to do more to kind of get more money into the marketplace. given that environment, is it still wise for you all to stick with the idea that you ought to take money out of the marketplace by allowing tax rates to go up on the wealthy? >> well, look, candy, if you look at the congressional budget office and all the other studies

that have been done, the least stimulative tax cut we could give would be a tax cut to millionaires and billionaires who already have -- >> still in the bad economy. >> -- and tax and spend and nobody wants to borrow $700 billion more to pay for tax cuts that aren't going to stimulate the economy and aren't going to benefit the 98% of the american people. we want tax cut for the middle class, up to $250,000, everyone would get a tax cut up to $250,000 of income. that would be stimulative because people who need money in their pocket to spend and pay for the things that they need to live would have more money in their pocket. that makes sense. we proposed other tax cuts, we want to accelerate expensing so that businesses can buy equipment next year, and not pay taxes on those purchases next year. we want to -- >> how about capital gains. >> well, we believe there should be action on capital gains but

not to go back to where it was, perhaps to 20%. that would be a responsible level and would still encourage growth in investment. >> so you are sort of willing at some point, people think this might be a risk, you need to have money stay in the marketplace, so that people will buy things and even if you can make the case that the rich don't spend as much as a percentage of their income, they still spend something, and that is money that businesses say they need in the marketplace so people will buy their stuff. so that they it make more stuff. >> listen, what we need to do is get a tax cut to the middle class, candy, but the other thing that's weighing down on our economy and you hinted at it and certainly mr. bernanke has, is our fiscal situation, and the notion that we borrow $700 billion for the next ten years from china or some other country in order to pay for tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires.

doesn't make sense. this is is part of how we got in trouble in the first place. >> it will cost you to do it for the middle class. >> things that make sense for our economy let's talk about the tax cuts that i just mentioned that actually have, that everyone agrees would stimulate the economy, and focus on putting the emphasis where it belongs. >> we've got to take a quick break. maybe if i could get a yes or no. do you think that there is any wiggle room in that position, are you adamantly against anything that would temporarily extend those tax cuts for those making $250,000 and up? >> we don't think tax cuts for the middle class should be held hostage for tax cuts for the wealthy. >> right, wiggle room? >> it's something we'd have to borrow. >> no wiggle room? >> you heard my position, candy. up next, is the president off the mark with those claims about shadowy campaign cash? david axelrod stays with us. [ manager ] you know...

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reading the road 1,000 times per second. it's the turn that leads you somewhere new. introducing the new 2011 cts-v coupe. from cadillac. the new standard of the world. in our next segment we'll turn our conversation with david axelrod to campaign spending, now a staple of the president's xap recei campaign rhetoric. this tnc ad covers the first. >> the u.s. chamber of commerce, they're shield for big business and stealing our knockcy. it appears they've even taken secret foreign money to influence our elections. >> no outside fact checker has found any evidence that latter charge is true. 3 million businesses mostly domestic and some foreign are dues paying members of the u.s.

chamber of commerce, an estimated $100,000 or less than 1% of the chamber's total budget come from the dues of foreign businesses. the chamber adam antly denies the charge and there is no evidence that money from foreign dues is funding the chamber's political ads. moving on to the second, directly from mr. axelrod. >> tens of millions of dollars from undisclosed donors from benign names like the american crossroads fund and spending herself nil the elections. >> he is talking about groups classified by the irs as 501-cs, nonprofit organizations that list their primary mission something other than political so they don't have to tell them who gives them money. what do voters make of all of this? in a recent poll 47% said a candidate promoted by groups with anonymous toners is less likely to get their vote. 41% said it doesn't matter. campaign cash with david ac

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we are pack with senior white house adviser david axelrod. let's get right to it. you and the president, a lot of other democrats have been complaining particularly about the chamber of commerce, which doesn't release its, who is supporting some of these ads that is out there and out there with millions of dollars worth of ads in some key states and every single fact check has said there is just no proof of this.

why do you sort of continue to push this idea that the chamber is doing something illegal, because it would be illegal to use foreign money in campaigns? >> first of all, i think that is not the main question. i would ask you, because i know you're a great reporter, of the $75 million they're spending on campaigns, how much comes from companies with foreign investments, how much comes from the insurance industry, how much comes from wall street, how much comes from the oil industry. i'd ask you that. >> sure, i mean all of which would be -- >> no, i'm honestly asking, i'm asking you a question, candy, how much comes from each of those places? you don't know, because they don't disclose. >> right, sure. >> they say trust us, everything's cool, everything's kosher. don't worry about it. but we're not going to disclose. let me tell you something, people don't disclose there's a reason. we tried to pass a law through the united states congress that would force all these

organizations, whether they support democrats or republicans, to disclose where their money is coming from. 59 democrats in the senate voted for it, every democrat, 41 republicans in the senate used a procedural technique a filibuster to block a vote on this, because they wanted to keep it secret. why? >> let me back this up then and say you're perfectly right and it is perfectly legal for these groups that are classified as not having their primary mission be political to keep their donors a secret. >> if by the way it's perfectly legal if they spend a majority of their money on something else, it will be interesting to see if that's the case. >> okay, but -- >> because all of these funds, all of the sudden karl rove creates a fund, it now has, you know, upwards of $50 million that they're spending probably over $100 million by the end of this in campaigns across the country, and there are dozens of these sprung up all run by republican political operatives

called social welfare organizations. one called the committee for truth in politics. ironically named because they won't reveal their contributors that, is based in north carolina, and their mission, stated mission is to promote the social welfare of north carolina and running negative ads against democratic candidates in washington, in california, and in ohio. you tell me where f this is on the up and up. >> we've established that it's legal and it's an ine playing field. democrat leaning groups could do this, in fact, democratic leaning groups are doing it with much less success than republican groups are doing this. so you can understand why at this point republicans are going you know, they are losing this perfectly legal battle to go on the air and this is sour grapes, you are using this as a way to stoke your base, the insurance is coming and big business is coming, because you don't want to talk about the economy and

t.a.r.p. don't want to talk about the stimulus bill. >> this is about the economy because if an interest group can give millions of dollars to karl rove secretly and he can run negative ads against democratic candidates across the country under the american crossroads fund rubric or committee for truth and politics or these others they're going to have tremendous influence over the future. the chairman of the senate republican committee, senator cornyn says their first missions will be repeal health reform and repeal financial reform. on financial reform that means we're going to go back to the time of hidden fees and hidden penalties, of the mortgage chicanery and no one will know who is paying for the ads. ask the folks why they feel it's necessary to keep the funds secret. we tried to make them public, even the democratic funds, democratic leaning funds. we don't think anybody should keep them secret. if you can -- >> can't we ask, if you have

americans united for change and other democratic groups who also aren't revealing their donors, what are they hiding? isn't that a legitimate question? >> yes, candy, look, i think that we believe deeply in disclosure, no matter who is running the ads. you said in your opening you're right 6:1 this spending in favor of republican candidates, and in colorado micael bennet has six ads against him, outfunded 3-1. karl rove's group is going to plunk $50 million in the last three weeks of the house races, more than the democratic congressional committee will spend in the entire cycle so these secret special interest funds will have a louder voice in the last three weeks of this cycle than the democratic party did throughout the cycle. there's something fundamentally wrong with that, and if they don't want to disclose who their money is coming from there's a

reason. they don't want to say this ad was brought to you by wall street, this ad who wants to repeal financial reform, this ad was brought to you by the health insurance industry who wants to repeal health insurance reform. this ad was brought to you by the oil industry that doesn't want to have to be responsible when they leak oil in the gulf of mexico. >> if these democratic groups who say they simply are unable to raise this kind of money in this particular environment, that democrats particularly on the liberal side who are prone to give big money into some of these independent democratic-leaning groups are just not doing it this year. if you had that kind of money that could go into independent groups wouldn't you be happy they were using that money? it is totally legal. >> look, obviously this gives a huge advantage to republicans, but this isn't just a threat to the democratic party, candy. if someone can walk into a congressional office and say if you don't vote my way, the insurance instry or wall street, if you don't vote ou way we're going to give karl rove $10 million and going to

blow you away in the next election. what kind of impact is that going to have on our country? that's why we support a law to disclose all of it, republicans or democrats, and you know speaking of mr. rove, back in 2004, when democratic groups were spending herself nil that election, he complained about that but all those groups disclosed where the money was coming from. we didn't hide where the money was coming from, and yet he said it was a threat to democracy. what about secret funds, funded by special interests? that is a threat to our democracy, and he may have switched a 180 on this when it's to his advantage. it's bad whether it's done on behalf of democrats or republicans. >> one quick point and then a question. the quick point being that when we looked at the house races, all of the spending, parties, candidates, outside groups, democrats are still outspending republicans on this, but let me move you on to just the final question, and that is the republicans have said all along when it came to finance reform,

listen, we're for full disclosure. everyone would say how much they put in, let's take off the contribution limits and disclose everything. what's wrong with that? you could have had a deal but you didn't deal with them? >> well, look, if we -- we have taken off the contribution limits. we've just taken them off for big corporations and special interests who can give money to the secret funds. if you and i give a contribution it's limited to $2,300 and we have to divulge that we're participating. through these funds they can give unlimited amounts of money. they can give $100 million and never have to disclose, and that's wrong. listen, mitch mcconnell, the leader of the senate republicans, has been an avowed enemy of any kind of campaign finance reform, mccain-feingold or any others. he wants to tap the interest to support his candidates and that's why we don't know who is contributing this money today.

so you should direct your questions to senator mcconnell. >> thank you so much. we'll do that the next time we have him. david axelrod, senior adviser to the president, thanks for your time. appreciate it. >> okay, happy to be here, thank you. when we come back we'll talk with conservative activist gary bauer, one of his groups is running ads but he won't say from where he's getting the money. rdinary into something mo. moments can change anytime -- just like that. and when they do men with erectile dysfunction can be more confident in their ability to be ready with cialis for daily use. cialis for daily use is a clinically proven, low-dose tablet you take every day, so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. tell your doctor about your medical condition and all medications, and ask if you're healthy enough for sexual activity. don't take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. [ man ] don't drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache, or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help

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different rules for different groups. this ad is paid for by the campaign for working families, a political action committee or pac founded by conservative activist gary bauer. it went you have on nevada tv friday. >> the destruction of our health care and tragic unemployment, but obama didn't do it alone. he had an accomplice. harry reid voted with obama a stunning 95% of the time. >> by law, bauer's pac has to disclose its donors but he is also involved with another group, the emergency committee for israel. it ran this ad in pennsylvania against the democratic senate candidate. >> does congressman joe sestak understand israel is america's ally? sestak raised money for an anti-israel organization, the fbi called a front group for hamas. >> the emergency committee for israel is one of those groups not required by law to reveal who gives it money. so pennsylvania voters don't know who specifically paid for

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joining me now, conservative activist and former presidential candidate gary bauer. >> my pleasure to be here. >> you've spent a lifetime on the social issues, values voterish use. >> right. ? that has been to me noticeably absent in this particular campaign. and i want to read you a couple of things that two republicans

have said because it's republicans who seem to be much more focussed elsewhere. and the first came from john cornyn, as you know, went and spoke to log cabin republicans and when tony perkins, a friend of the family research council objected cornyn wrote him and said "part of my job is to reach out to those committed to defeat senate democrats this november. the log cabin republicans," that is gay republicans, "are doing just that." governor mitch daniels said this about social issue "the next president would have to call a truce on so the called social issues. we're going" meaning republicans, "going to just have to agree to get along for a little while until the economic issues are resolved." are social issues off the table in. >> no, and both the gentlemen are friends of mine and i work with them on many issues, but i would say with all due respect on this, they're absolutely wrong. i would say that governor mitch daniels you know, it's not our

side that has declared war on social issues. i would love to call a truce on it. the reason the social issues are in such play so many years is that others have declared war. there's a major movement going on in this country that changed the definition of marriage. now, if mitch daniels. thinks he can call a truce on that, that would be great but as long as people are pushing to change the definition of marriage they're going to be millions of americans that say no, we want marriage to stay between one man and one woman. >> i want to move on to the money issues. but i think that what they're trying to say is the republican party, if it has a narrow base, cannot win and do anything. people are concerned about the economy. we need to do that instead of bringing up which are really divisive issues particularly when you look at the independ t independents, gay marriage. >> right. >> things like abortion, all issues that tend to particularly divide the independents whose votes you need. >> all these issue, every issue

is devicive in america today, my republican friends going to tell me that reforming social security is not divisive? of course it is. the whole tax cut debate is a very divisive issue. these values issues actually expand the republican party. they don't narrow it. independence doesn't equate to moderates. millions of independents are pro-life. millions of independents believe smarnlg betwe marriage is between a man and a woman. there was a vote in california liberal state on the marriage question a couple of years ago and los angeles, which john mccain lost massively, the people of los angeles voted overwhelmingly to keep marriage between one man and one woman and those were essentially african-american and hispanic voters, so these values issues i would say to my republican friends are what we need to grow the party, not to shrink it. >> let me return to you the money question. you are co-chair of one group putting ads on the air concerning people's candidate

support for or against israel. >> yes. >> and do not disclose the donors, would you do that? would you give me the name of the donors? >> no, of course not. >> why not? >> because these are issue ads, and under the laws of the united states and repeated court rulings. >> they're attacking joe sestak so that's not an issue ad it's like a don't vote for this guy. >> it never says don't vote. if you say vote for or vote against then it is a direct political ad. >> that's a nuance. voters don't come away oh i shouldn't vote for joe sestak in. >> i don't write the laws and i don't make the court decisions and the courts have said for very good reasons, i might say, that in these kinds of ads there doesn't have to be disclosure. the first court decision on this involved the naacp in alabama, somebody wanted to get their list of donors, bigots wanted to get the list to harass the people donating to the naacp. the reason this disclosure issue

is so important, candy, quite frankly, is that on the left in this country, there has been in recent years campaigns of intimidation and outright thuggery when people have put their names on the line and promoted conservative ideas. >> you're saying the main reason you wouldn't tell the donors putting the ads up trying to influence the outcome of an election, they are frayed they'll be harass if people know they are pro-israel. >> well, i think one of the factors is that some of these folks are democrats, and they don't want to alienate democratic friends and people that they work with. >> isn't that what democracy is all about, here's what i'm for and against. isn't democracy about someone looking at the television and going oh, this democrat put up this ad against this democrat, hmm, that's interesting. if they don't know, it is coming at them in a vacuum. is that democracy? >> candy, where was all this concern about democracy when barack obama two years ago was raising a massive amount of

money, more than any time in the history of the united states, he had tens of thousands of donations that he did not kiss disclose the names of. there's a lot of evidence that many of those donations may in fact have come from foreign citizens, not americans, in fact there was a couple of brothers in gaza who gave $17,000 to the obama campaign, and they gave that money back only after outside groups found that problem and disclosed it. so for mr. axelrod and these guys suddenly to be on their high horse and say that they're defending democracy, when for years the left has done this, including the unions and nobody said a word. >> gary bauer, i can't thank you enough for coming in and joining us. >> my pleasure >> interesting discussion, always gets people moving in the morning. >> absolutely, my pleasure. we did ask the chamber of commerce, american crossroads, crossroads gps and the america action network to provide a

leader of of their organizations to appear this morning. they were either unwilling or unable to join us, which is why we were glad gary bauer did. when we come back, working our way through the mails of money and politics with our panel. [ j. weissman ] it was 1975. my professor at berkeley asked me if i wanted to change the world. i said "sure." "well, let's grow some algae." and that's what started it. exxonmobil and synthetic genomics have built a new facility to identify the most productive strains of algae. algae are amazing little critters. they secrete oil, which we could turn into biofuels. they also absorb co2. we're hoping to supplement the fuels that we use in our vehicles, and to do this at a large enough scale to someday help meet the world's energy demands.

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personal pricing now on brakes. tell us what you want to pay. we do our best to make that work. deal! my money. my choice. my meineke. joining me now here in washington, michael duffy and evan tracy, cnn consultant and president of the campaign media analysis group. evan, first let's just get the 50,000 foot view, $3 billion in ads in this midterm election compare that to other years? >> it's going to be a record cycle, looking to be anywhere from $300 million or more above where we were in 2008, the last record here, and then the last midterms we were about $2.4 billion, so we're pacing well ahead of that, so it will be a big year for political ads. >> and mike, we talk about more money being spent, more money is being spent. what's the net political effect

of this? does money always talk? >> there's always plenty of it and always new ways to spend it. with the citizens united case by the supreme court their decision, there's a new, you know, fanged way to spend it and gives donors not only new ways to play, they can do it anonymously and later in the cycle, we're entering the last chapter where we're going to see lots more ads at a later date than we've ever seen before. one official i know is running one of these groups, says he's going to spend two-thirds of the money he's raised in the next three weeks -- two weeks. >> that's generally what we see of any ads, they sat -- do not turn on your tv set in the last couple of weeks of the campaign. >> politics is the only business i'm aware of that spends the most amount of money on advertising when it has the least amount of people left to influence. all about getting those late, independent undecided voters who are just tuning in. >> any evidence these outside ads and we'll narrow is down to

the little, to that segment which does not have to reveal who has given it money, any evidence that those ads are any more effective than all the other ads that are out there? >> there's a detail issue that makes a difference. because they can go later without having to disclose anything the way they did in the last cycle we are seeing people running these funds, these campaigns wait until the very last second to decide this race i can make a difference in, now let's go. this race i can't, let's pull back. there's that huge marginal last-minute impact that we haven't seen before but of course it's just about to start, and so we really won't know for another two weeks. i think they believe they can make a huge difference. >> here's where the groups can help, they can add tonnage, reinforce the message, helping challengers get to the point where their own ads can get on the air, when they provide that message that a challenger can't

run for themselves, like the swift boats for george bush, that's what has the impact. >> the white house continues to make such a big issue out of this, is actually having a sort of inverse proportional -- it's driving more money into these groups. every time he mentions the chamber of commerce, more people are calling up the chamber of commerce. >> here, have some money. >> last week the chamber was raising $30,000 a day, a record for them, their server crashed so much so. you're seeing this pile-on factor. >> let me play you something from a debate in wisconsin, senator feingold challenging ron johnson his republican challenger, feingold is behind, he's the sitting senator getting pummeled with the outside ads and this is another way it's playing into politics. take a listen. >> he is benefiting tremendously in his campaign from millions of dollars of these ads and i am not and i don't want them. you say you don't want them? will you call on them to stop? >> i have no control over that. >> will you ask them to stop? >> that's part of the problem. >> will you ask them to stop?

>> that's the right to free speech. >> so it's now being ultzed out of the campaign trail saying whoa, these murky people and you don't know where it's coming from. will you ask them to stop. how does this cut? in the end is it hurting or helping? >> what the democrats are trying to do say couple of things, pull their voters off the side lines, talking about how much money is going into the murky -- the "secret special interest groups" that was the term axelrod used, very nice. the second they're trying to get their own money off the side lines. the republican money is off the side lines. what about ours and finally another piece of this, axelrod talked about insurance companies, banks, sort of big corporate powers, that's to push a little bit of the tea party voters upset about the same things to the side line, it's a three-fer for the democrats in theory. >> he mentioned the outside, trying to get their guys off the side lines in the outside

groups. acle rod says we won't like outside groups, which is easy when you're not making much money. all outside group, the pacs that have to disclose donors and those who don't. how does that break down democrat/republican in terms of spending? >> republicans have a huge advantage in this cycle. >> this is in the house races. >> in the house races almost like a bridge loan for the challenger candidates. that's why you see this the most almost nullified the incumbent advantage you've had. incumbents been around more, raised more money and in this environment you spend earlier. incumbents have five, six, seven ads on the air already. challengers vnt bean on the air but the groups have been there. >> just looking at outside money alone, republicans have what kind of a advantage ratio? >> look at groups in the house races now it's in many cases 7-1, 7-1 as far as ad spending goes. >> overall spending the republican committees, the

candidates, just in the house, how does that break down? >> you roll it up and the democrats are still in the lead. they got about $55 million in ad spending to about $46 million if you roll up groups, candidates and parties for the republican. even with all these groups about a quarter of all house ads in the last 30 days have been from republican groups for republicans. if you take that out that deficit is even wider so you can tell the groups are a big help to republican candidates. >> subject doesn't it look like sour grapes? doesn't that sort of look like we don't have the advantage except now you guys are taking advantage of the law, doing legal stuff. >> shocking, isn't it in. >> right, exactly. >> we've forgotten the fact that barack obama raised i don't know $160, $180 million more than the republicans did. some of this is just politics has its fashionable cycles and at the moment looks like a republican cycle. but i was very interested when axelrod said a few minutes ago we need more disclosure. it will be interesting to see how the aftafter the election i

whether they man up and do this themselves. >> what do you get, we can't do this as well so let's beat them up? >> michael hit the nail on the head. this is working the refs a little bit, the media and voters trying to get a foul called like a basketball game, every time down the floor you want something noticed by the referees in this. it will be interesting to see sort of where this money comes, you know, do the democrats try and get to to parity or louder at the very end or absorbing hits now because every time they try and talk about issues in their ads, the republicans are there to counteract, talk about social security, republicans talking about medicare cuts. they talk about trade, outsourcing to china, republicans are talking about stimulus dollars going to china. this is a message where it's really hard for republicans to rejoin and say yeah you have money, too. >> let me just ask you both just because both of you follow this, understand the differences between there's a 1c and 1-4 and

all that stuff. is it a danger to democracy to have people who can anonymously give money to groups who en run ads to influence elections? >> in 1972, richard nixon had the townhouse project, a white house run secret special interest fund and it took congress three years to fix it. and that was with the democratically reform-minded congress. if the congress believes this needs to be changed, it's going to take much longer now than it in z in the 1970s to turn it around. i believe both parties will say this is horrible and it's bad for democracy but until we fix it, let answer try it ourselves. >> i think, look, we go back the recent history of campaign finance and you had soft money that went through the parties, then it went to the 527s after the mccain-feingold bill. now we have an amendment to that allowing the money to come in later and the messages to be more political. it's hard to say, the next place

you go, is it going to be any better? every time they try and fix the problem it gets worse or the pieces change. >> let me just say one thing really quickly. citizens. united as i understand it, and nod your heads yes or no because i've got to go, tinkered around the edges, but you were always, those anonymous donors. existed pre-this supreme court decision. >> a change in law which had a huge practice. >> i wanted to clarify that, great. come back and explain this to us. we really appreciate it both very much, evan and tramike, th you. why you now have the chance to be closer than ever to president obama.

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time now for a check of today's top stories. president obama and first lady michelle obama are hitting the campaign trail together for the first time since the 2008 presidential race. the president and first lady head to ohio today for a democratic fund-raiser and will headline a rally tonight at ohio state university.

sarah palin urged california republicans to support gop candidates in the midterm elections. about 2,000 people turned out last night in anaheim where the former vice presidential candidate slammed congressional democrats. >> what do you do with employees like that who aren't doing their job? you fire them. you fire pelosi, retire reid, and their whole band of merry followers, and we get back on the right track. >> california republican gubernatorial nominee meg whitman and gop senate candidate carly fiorina did not attend the rally. australia has its first catholic saint, pope benedict sanctified mother mary malculap, the first australian nun to leave the cities and minister to australias aworld poor. those of your top stories on

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