missing persons case out of ohio to tell you about. police have rescued a missing teenager. 13-year-old sarah maynard. she was found bound and gagged at t home of a suburban columbus, ohio man. the girl's mother, her brother and a family friend are still missing. police arrested 30 years matthew hoffman on kidnapping charges. the family went mission on wednesday, and since then the community has organized massive search efforts. that's are your headlines this hour. i'm don lemon keeping you informed. cnn, the most trusted name in news. good evening from florida, a state that's played an outsized role in the political legacy of the bush family. a state that through the 2000 presidential election bid of george bush into overtime and eventually into the supreme court. the state that twice elected jeb bush whose eight years as governor included that 2000 florida recount. for the past two years, the brothers have kept a low profile until now.

the roll-out of the former president's book "decision points." this afternoon the two brothers sat down to talk with me here in coral gables. president bush and i last spoke in december of '08, one of his final interviews as president. it was a subdued time. republicans had been routed by the landslide victory of barack obama. >> we care about him. we want him to be successful, and we want the transition to work. >> president bush left behind an economy in recession, a situation so dire that one of his last acts was to pump out $25 billion to save the auto industry, and he set up a $700 billion taxpayer bailout for a banking industry so burdened by its own bad investments the country's entire economy was threatened. >> i feel a sense of obligation to my successor to make sure there's not a, you know, a huge economic crisis. look, obviously have made a decision to make sure the economy doesn't collapse.

i have abandoned free market principles to save the free market system. having said that, i'm very confident that with time the economy will come out and grow, and people's wealth will return. >> i'm candy crowley and this is a "state of the union" special, "bush two years later." mr. president, thank you for being here with us. i want to start with the economy because that's what the american people are thinking about now >> right. >> and i listened to that exchange with you, and i wonder if you knew two years ago when you were talking about i think the wealth will come back, it hasn't. >> no, i understand. >> still struggling. >> yeah. >> was it as bad -- was it as bad as you thought it was or worse than you thought it was at that time? >> well, when i talked to you, i had just finished making a very difficult decision and that is to use taxpayers' money to prevent the economy from collapsing or preventing a

depression, and i believed that those decisions made in the fall of '08 did prevent the economy from heading into a depression. i knew we were hurt. i don't think a lot of us realized how long it would take to get out of the mess. i will tell you this though, the t.a.r.p., you mentioned the $700 billion. we spent half of it when i was president, and it's been repaid with interest to the people of the country and the president has, you know, obviously made decisions he thinks is necessary to grow the economy, and so far the growth has been sluggish. >> a lot of times we do hear from this administration that they had no idea that the reason it's taking so long is they had no idea how bad it was. they got into office, and they really didn't understand how bad it was. did you understand how bad it was? did you think that you and i would be signature here in two years talking about an economy,

where people are talking about their 201 ks now. 9.6% unemployment rate so it's still a scary place. did you think two years later it would still be this bad? >> i wasn't a very economic prognosticator. i did know we were in deep trouble and that's why i made the decision i made, and in my book i chronicle the history of the meltdown and then the decisions i took to prevent the economy from cratering. there's a lot of people who said, well, the economy -- we wouldn't have seen a depression. the problem is when you are the president, you don't have the luxury of talking about the theoretical. i was advised by people who i trust, i trusted hank paulson an ben bernanke, that we better do something so i did set aside my free market prince pentagons and made a very difficult decision. >> but never regretted it? >> no, i don't. i really don't. >> i want -- this is from your book and you were talking about the economy at this point, and you said i felt like the captain of a sinking ship. this was one ugly way to end the presidency.

>> yeah, yeah. >> you bring up hank paulson, ben bernanke, also larry lindsey as an economic adviser, and i guess i think -- when i think of the white house, i think they bring in all these big brains and these people all know about global economies and this and that and nobody saw it coming. >> right. >> you talk about i didn't see it coming. i didn't know i was -- you know, angry at what the banks had done. you know, to me i'm thinking why isn't anyone accountable for this? why did it slip past all these big brains that you like so much? >> everybody is accountable, private and public sector. we did anticipate a problem and that is that the place of government guarantee, fannie and freddie, the mortgage institutions, the fact that they weren't regulated, the implicit government guarantee and the fact that they were not regulated did create a problem and, therefore, did i go to congress and strongly urge them to regulate those two entries

and, of course, was rebuffed up until the crisis hit >> this is really broad. this was broader than fannie and freddie. they are a big problem. >> i also put in the book this is not a case of regulation. this is a case of bad decisions in the private sector. and no. >> how did we not know that? >> i don't think anybody really saw the size of the catastrophe. >> doesn't that kind of make you think, what's your people's job but to help me do this? >> i don't think our people -- i don't think our job is to overregulate an economy. our job was to provide reasonable regulation which we tried to do and were thwarted by the congress. look, i'm not trying to pass the blame on anybody, but i think it is very difficult for a president or an administration to see the size and scope of a downturn. i mean, the economics is an inexact science, and we did see a problem coming. that's why we tried to boost consumer spending in january of 2008, but the interconnectedness of the world and the risky investments that many made

compounded into the perfect storm, and it was a very difficult situation. and my job at that point was to make a decision as to whether or not we were going to risk a complete economic collapse, and i chose not. >> i guess if i'm just a consumer out there, and i remember distinctly being on the campaign trail at that point i think we were with john mccain and it just seemed like the world was falling apart. it seemed like everything was going fine, and then all of a sudden it was -- >> yeah. >> -- the world's falling apart. if we don't act now the banks are fail and this will happen and i guess right now if i'm listening to you, i'm thinking, it can happen again because no one's watching this? >> there's a lot of people watching and i remember bear stearns fails in 2008 and we acted, but the interconnectedness of the situation and the money flowing into the country as a result of trade deficits and foreign investors looking for greater

returns and housing -- the assumption that the housing market -- housing prices were going to go up, all led to this, you know, house of cards, and when it started to collapse, it really started to collapse, and obviously if there's some way to have stopped, it i would have liked to have done so, but it was -- i hope it's a once in a lifetime situation, but they said the great depression was a once in a lifetime situation as well. the problem is you've got to be very careful, candy, not to overregulate because if you try to overregulate then investment is not going to flow, and if investment doesn't flow, then people aren't going to be able to find work. >> except i would think, wow, if somebody set standards for loans, these banks would not have been stuck with so much bad paper. >> that's right. there was sloppy lending practices. no question about it, and i wish they would have paid a price. >> isn't that regulation? >> well, but the regulations are on the book, and -- on the books about, you know, sloppy lending practices, and, yeah.

the danger is that, i mean, the logic of your questioning is, okay, now in order to prevent a future collapse from happening, we must overregulate or regulate a lot. >> or regulate more. >> well, it depends on what you're talking about. the problem is regulation tends to stifrl capital investment and capital investment is what's necessary to grow the economy, so you've got to find the right balance. >> do i take it from that that you didn't take much of the financial reform bill that passed? >> you can take i'm not going to criticize my successor. >> i just want to know what you thought of the bill. >> that's a wonderful attempt to do so. there needs to be some regulation. i talked about some of the regulation in my book. hank paulson in the summer of 2008 with my approval laid out a plan as to how to better regulate the economy without stifling investment. >> i want to turn you quickly to social security because you -- it was one of the things on your agenda. had you talked about this in your book. >> yeah. >> and had gone out to say we're gong to reform social security as some other presidents have done. we now have this new what are we

going to do about the deficit and overspending? and one of the things in it from a friend of yours, alan simpson, is one. co-chairs of this, is let's raise the retirement age over a period of time to 69. is it any easier now than it was when you tried it? is there anything that leads you to believe that good idea, people get on board? >> i do discuss the issue in my book and i recount a scene where leaders of our party said we won't support your social security reform. i said, why? they said, well, we'll probably lose seats, and i -- my view is that legislative bodies tend to be reactive, and it's going to require a president to be proactive to convince congress that the crisis is severe enough to take some political risk by passing a plan. i also laid out specifics. i might have been the first president to ever detail how

best to deal with the unfunded liabilities inherent in social security and not reforming social security was a huge disappointment. >> stick with me. when we come back, i want to talk to you little bit as your role as commander in chief. we'll be right back. >> if you ever make decisions based upon your political skin with troops in harm's way, you as commander in chief will have a lot of problem keeping the respect of the military. [ j. weissman ] it was 1975. my professor at berkeley asked me if i wanted to change the world. i said "sure." "well, let's grow some algae." and that's what started it.

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i wanted to ask you. something stuck with me about the speech that you gave post 9/11. >> yes. >> at national cathedral and talked about how this came out of nowhere, surprised us, but the end would be in a way and at an hour of our choosing. >> yeah. it's a rhetorical device to lift the spirits of the country and say that the attack was unprovoked and that we'd respond. >> but it's not going to end, is it? >> it will end when freedom helps extinguish hope. in other words, the extremists become marginalized with time as freedom advances. it won't end if america retreats within our borders and doesn't help people realize the blessings of freedom. >> but that's a tough sell, as you know.

>> of course it is. >> we still have young men and women in iraq. >> yeah. >> men and women in afghanistan. 50,000 in one. over 100,000 in the other. we already see signs that people are restless about afghanistan, an yet i was struck by an interview in one. morning papers about the head of british forces who said we are never going to defeat al qaeda. we can make ourselves more secure, but we're talking about a 30-year battle here. what do you say to the american people who say, afghanistan, time to get out, time to pull out, to say you've got to say? >> well, there's -- first of all, afghanistan was the site where extremists were able to find a safe haven to attack. >> but they're mostly gone at this point. in afghanistan, sorry. >> i wouldn't make that assumption. in afghanistan, yeah. but not to say they couldn't come back if it's a regime welcoming them to give them safe haven again. i would say that put yourself in the position of a young girl in

afghanistan and realize that her life will be incredibly brutalized and/or thwarted by people like the taliban, and the fundamental question is is it worth it? that's the question to ask. does it matter to our own national security or our conscience that women will be mistreated? i argue it does. and i understand it's difficult. >> it is. and women are mistreated in a lot of different parts of the world. >> but nothing like they were during the taliban. >> it was brutal. it was brutal. i guess, you know, people look and say there's a lot of places we could go, but this sort of gets us to the notion of nation building which i remember in your campaign you were against. >> yes. >> and here's what you said in your book talking about the war in afghanistan. i knew it would take time to help the afghan people build a functioning democracy. our government was not prepared for nation building. >> right. >> how did the george bush that

campaigned and said this is not what we do -- >> right. >> -- go from that person, to listen, we are going to be in afghanistan for a long time because we've got to build a nation? >> because when i made that statement in the 2000 campaign, i did not anticipate that we would have to remove a brutal regime that harbored al qaeda, but once the decision was made to remove the regime, to deny al qaeda safe haven and to hold people to account who harbored terrorists, then we had an obligation not to leave. we had an obligation -- in other words, we removed the government. we had an obligation to help the afghans develop a dem >> i it's been nine years. >> of course. >> did you think it would be nine years? >> well, south korea took a long time, as well. in other words, there's examples of where societies are evolved from strong man to democracy, and it does take time. you know, i wish it had taken a lot quicker, no question about it, but your question a while ago was the right question.

does it matter to the united states? it mattered to the united states to remove the taliban. does it matter to the united states at this point in time to help this really poor country develop into a democracy, and i make the case in the book that it does. >> another thing you said in the book, this is setting where this comes up, about to start the surge in iraq. >> yeah. >> afghanistan is literally blowing up, lots of ieds. >> well -- >> things -- it is getting worse in afghanistan. >> right. it is getting worse at that time. >> and you say, to your advisers, damn it, we can do more than one thing at a time. we cannot lose in afghanistan. is it possible, because so many people have said and, in fact, president obama won on the notion that we took our eye off that ball. >> yeah. >> that we would not still be there nine years later in a war that people are weary of and americans are still being killed had we not ventured off into a war that began at least on one great false premise, unknown at the time. >> yeah, right, yeah.

well, i -- i'm not sure which part of the question to answer first. first of all, i tried to solve the issue with saddam hussein peacefully. and if people read the book, they'll see the notion of coercive diplomacy. i do believe it was his choice to make as to whether or not he would be held to account for the demands of the free world at the time which was to disharm or face serious corns consequences. secondly, what happened in afghanistan was that our nato allies turned out -- some of them turned out not to be willing to fight. and, therefore, our assumption that we had ample troops, u.s. and nato troops turned out to be a not true assumption and so we adjusted. and i completely disagree with the take eye off the ball. i found that to be empty political rhetoric. >> i want to move to iraq for a

minute, but i'm curious what you think of president karzai negotiating with the members of the taliban. >> yeah. i'd be very careful because the taliban are the people who brutalized the society when they were in power. >> whole reason we went was to drive them out. >> well. i don't have enough -- well, i'm not involved in the process now. my reaction when i first heard that was these are the guys who harbored al qaeda. now, maybe there's reasonable taliban. i don't know. i'm out of the loop at this point on this issue. >> let me ask you about weapons of mass destruction. you have talked about how you felt sick to your stomach when you found out there were no weapons of mass destruction. can you bring me to that moment? did someone walk in and say, we've stopped looking? they're not there? who was it? how did that happen? >> no, no. it just kind of happened. it evolved, the fact that there wasn't weapons. i mean, when we first got in there and started looking

around, didn't find anything, you get that sinking feeling and then time went on and then we got tips, you know. i'll never forget the tip that there were crates buried, hidden in the euphrates river and maybe these are them and they sent frog men in there and nothing there. so, and then, of course, george tenet had the inspectors go back in and david kay and dilfer and pretty well put -- it was a period at the end of the sentence there. and, yeah, i felt terrible about it. on the other hand, those reports did point out that saddam hussein was very dangerous and that he had the capacity to make weapons. that -- and i'm convinced if he were in power today, the world would be a lot worse off. >> one of the things i think i thought about at the timand i wonder if you did, and you talk a lot in the book about abu ghraib and outraged you were about that, about not finding

wmd with a cia director that said slam dunk. >> he said slam dunk the case. he said slam dunk the case. his point was that the case was a solid case, that presenting the case would be a solid case to the people. >> a soiled case that there were wmd. >> right, that the evidence showed that he had wmd. we're splitting hairs. sorry. >> my question is when you look at those things about abu ghraib and about the wmd, it seems as though no one ever paid for that. we went to war largely on that basis, and i know you argue that there is an argument that we're better without saddam hussein. >> right. >> who was a brutal dictator and a horrible man, but the fact is that we sent young men and women there who were killed, as i know you know better than anyone else, and no one ever -- you never said you're responsible for this. you're out. and so the american people, i think, began to lose confidence in their government. >> i can see first of all. first of all, i was responsible, and the 2004 campaign was

partially about that responsibility. but, yeah, i mean, the commander in chief is responsible. i wish we would have found weapons of mass destruction. however, that doesn't make the cause a lost cause. >> right. something that -- something that you have argued all along. >> i believe a free iraq will be transformative in the middle east, and it's not going to happen in our lifetime. we're going to have to -- you and i will be -- i know i'll be long gone, but i think -- >> i'm sticking around. >> i hope so, but i think somebody's going to look back some day and say thank goodness that the united states believed in the universality of freedom and liberated 25 million people and gave the iraqis a chance to have their own free society. >> okay. stick with me a little longer. when we come back, we want to talk about the trials of the presidency that president lincoln knew so well. >> i think he's taught the presidents of speaking with moral clarity on certain truths, and secondly when you start to feel sorry for yourself, just look at lincoln.

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the truman library at one point, and they have showcased there as one of their exhibits a letter that was written to harry truman during the korean war. they found it in harry truman's

desk after he died, and it was a medal and this letter. mr. truman, as you have been directly responsible for the loss of our son's life in korea, you might just as well keep this emblem on display in your trophy room as a memory of one of your historic deeds. our major regret at this time is that your daughter was not there to receive the same treatment as our son received in korea. signed william banning. what struck me was that this was in his drawer. that it affected him in a way and i know we have heard a lot of touching stories of people who lost their children, came to the white house who were so supportive of you. but i know that there must have been others, but i'm interested in how those who are so angry and we understand their angry, how those affected you. >> well, it hurts, of course. and i met a mom who -- who i was hoping to console, and she say's

you're as big a terrorist as bad bad. >> sticks with you? >> yeah, of course, it does. and i just hope that some day there would be enough success in iraq so that the hurt will heal, but i fully understood it. and yeah. >> and do you -- i guess there's no way of consoling. here you are confronted with people who think you did the exact wrong thing. >> that's right. >> and i think in some ways as lovely as it is to be able to console somebody who wants your consolation -- >> right. >> -- that you might sometimes go to bed at night thinking, it's tough. >> i felt right after that meeting i felt that. the difference, of course, between truman's era and my era is ours is a volunteer army where the kids volunteered, and it really does make a difference because their moms probably said, are you sure you want to

do this? and they would say, absolutely, i want to do it. 70% of the military today signed up after september 11th but it still doesn't -- i'm not trying to justify. in other words, i saw probably less of that than harry truman did, but i did see it. i understand, fully understand. >> whether they volunteered or not it still -- >> hurts. really hurts. >> yeah. i wanted to play something for you. you know this man, general haden. >> i admire him greatly. >> he's been on our show a couple of times, and i asked him if knowing what he knew, whether he was less scared than i was of what's out there or more. and here was his answer. >> i used to get in the car every morning, give me the president's brief and cables and i used to spend my first hour going through the last 24 hours of event. it is hard to have faith in human nature or to be an optimist after that 60 minutes. >> yeah. well, mike and i read a lot of the same intelligence during my presidency, and what a lot of people forget, i think forget,

is that this country was under severe threat, and i believe we still are. i don't get the intelligence now that the president gets, and nor should i, but there's an enemy out there who still will do us harm and it's important for the president and the congress to work together to help and to work with local authorities to help protect our country. >> and, when you -- but you're at the base of it, an optimistic man who thinks we can win this war on terror. >> i do. i do. >> but it is a pretty scary place out there, at least according to one of your top spies. >> well, because there's some brutal people who kill the agenda, and the difference between other ideological struggles with communism or fascism, there's not a single nation state or nation states. this is kind of a shadowy group that kind of burrows in society and is very lethal and, of course, the biggest danger facing our country is a

terrorist group ending up with weapons of mass destruction, biological weapons or chemical weapons. that's why -- that's why i've used saddam hussein as a threat because he was an enemy of the united states. we all thought he had weapons of mass destruction, and the danger is he could give those to a surrogate group. >> you had a chapter about your stem cell. >> i did. >> research decision in your book. and one of the things i thought was fascinating was a paragraph that you had about what people were calling you. >> right. >> called you a nazi. they -- among other things. and it is interesting to me that i have now seen two presidents who came to office going i'm going to change the tone. >> yeah. >> you did not. and so far president obama has not. are we past the point where that's possible? >> i hope not. one thing i didn't do is get

involved with the name-calling that went on in washington. i tried to protect the institution of the president. >> people felt that you did. that your administration did try to paint people who didn't agree with you on the war of terror as not being patriotic. there were lots of things like that. >> i mean, for example, i don't remember doing that personally. and that was uncalled for if that's the case because patriotic people disagree with my decisions. there's no question. there are some who criticized me for not punching back after i had been called these names, but i chose not to do it. the truth of the matter is it didn't bother me. you know, i saw my dad vilified, and that did bother me, so by the time it came time for me to be the target, i -- i just kind of shrugged it o. >> i'll bring in reinforcement and bring in your brother jeb

who you at least have ambitions for him and even did so two years ago. have you told jeb to run for the u.s. senate in florida? >> yes. >> is he going to do? >> i don't know. >> you really don't know? >> i don't know. i wish he would. he'd be a great senator.

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we met up with the bush brothers at the classic biltmore hotel in coral gables. jeb is a private citizen now and has offices nearby. thanks for joining us for this. i have to know. publicly or privately, let's put it this way, what's your biggest political disagreement with your brother? >> i will tell you i'm the only republican that was in office when he was in office as president that never disagreed with him. i'm not going to start now. why would i do that now? after two years. >> well, not one time did you call up and say don't do that? >> i won't do that now. till death to us part. >> those are between you. not that there's not political differences but you don't do that publicly? >> i wouldn't do that. the news isn't disagreement. the news is the brothers. there's a schism with the brothers. we love each other and we're very close and we would never do that to each other.

>> that sort of continues through sort of your whole family, right? you have performed a protective gate around your dad when he was running. >> yeah. >> you talked about that in the book, which i know you haven't read but you nonetheless bought it and in it he describes lee atwater and both of you sort of had a trepidation. >> right. >> what he's referring to is when dad had us at camp david and we questioned lee's loyalty. jeb issued the great line, if there's a grenade rolling next to dad, lee, we expect you to dive on it first and lead us to it. we love our dad. it's hard for people to understand that how much we admire him and how much we love him. and how much our admiration for him motivated us to go into public service. >> i want to ask you about the republican party had a great election in, case you were too busy selling a book to notice, and new infusion of excitement.

you helped with marco rubio down here in florida. so lots of exciting new folks for republicans coming to town. there seems to be the two ways to go. one is stop all things obama, and the other is let's find a way to move forward. what way should the republican party go? >> i think it can be both. i mean, on principle you have to oppose this dramatic expansion of government, but at the same time find common ground where there can be common ground. not everything is ideological. we could have an energy policy in our country if we put aside our partisan differences. we certainly could have a free trade agreement in korea, panama, colombia. we could find maybe common ground in immigration if the boarder is controlled sufficiently. there's a lot of thing, education policy is another place. i don't think you can be against everything just because someone has a "d" by their name and you have an "r" by your name. >> you know in washington that very often what happens is

bipartisanship is if the other person agrees with you. >> yeah. >> so you heard that list of things. do you see those openings, as well? i know you came to washington hoping for these sorts of openings. >> well, actually, we did achieve some bipartisan pieces of legislation, no child left behind being an example and tax cuts another example, and right after 9/11 there was great bipartisan cooperation, and so there are moments when you're able to come together and, of course, there's very divisive moments as well. all of us in the country hope that people can find common ground. >> when these elections were over and we looked at the voting totals, 2-1 latinos very democratic. why is that? >> that's a problema. >> yes. why is it a problema? >> because there's a lot of latinos that ought to be voting republican. >> but they're not. why is that? >> not to say they won't next time, and i got a lot of latino vote when i ran for president and so did jeb.

>> you did, but something's wrong here, is it not >> rick scott got a majority of the hispanic vote in florida. we elected two hispanic governors. there were congressmen and women elected of hispanic origin. i think the problem is not just a west coast problem but it is a big-time california problem. and i think a part of it relates to tone. if you're watching tv and someone's kind of legitimately angered that we can't control our border and sending signals that is it is them and us, and by the way, you're not us, you're them, doesn't matter what else. people tune out. if they don't feel welcome, they won't listen to the message. >> and how does the republican party sort of reach out on that? because immigration reform, you tried. >> i did. and i believe the best way to secure the border is to have a comprehensive approach and said so in an oval office address. the language got carried away, though. people -- the issue kind of spiraled out of control and sent

bad signals. i think the republican party can attract latinos through good education policy, good policy toward our veterans and we -- there have been time when latinos voted republican and times when they haven't, and so we always need to learn from the past and be sensitive about the future. >> you remember talking so much in the campaign about family values not stopping at the rio grande, but you've lost that tone in the republican party. >> and at the same time latino or hispanic, as we call people of hispanic origin in florida, hispanics want the border controlled. a great nation has to control its border for national security purposes, for all sorts of purposes, and so no one is -- i don't know anybody that says, yes, let's just open up our border to create chaos, so once the boarder is controlled and people view it that way and there's a perception, it's benchmarked and people say yes,

then i think you will find that there is common ground to change our immigration policy, to help us grow faster as a nation and to welcome people that work hard and play by the rules to create prosperity for us. >> i'm going to ask the former governor and the former president to stick with me for a minute. when we come back, we're going to talk about what your father was saying about two years ago this time. be right back. >> does your dad want him to run? >> haven't talked to my dad about whether or not he wants jeff to run. first of all knowing my dad, i bet he would say i want jeb to do that which is best for him. lh and science develop new ideas. we've used hydrogen in our plants for decades. the old hydrogen units were very large. recently, we've been able to reduce that. then our scientists said "what if we could make it small enough to produce and use hydrogen right on board a car, as part of a hydrogen system." this could significantly reduce emissions and increase fuel economy by as much as 80%.

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ooh, peanuts. so we just heard your brother talking two years ago saying, look, what my d wants is what's good for jeb. what's good for jeb right now? >> what's good for jeb is to fulfill his duties as a husband and a father which i really feel compelled to do. i think it's the right thing do do. i got to be governor for eight years. it took about two years to get it, get the job, so that's a decade out of my life in public service. i enjoyed it immensely. i'm still involved, but i have to stay focused on this goal of achieving some financial independence, financial security

for my family, and that's just as simple as that. no one believes it because in washington world i guess there's such a deep discount for the truth in politics. you know, politicians never say what they actually believe or something. so i'm asked this question a lot. you would think about ten times you would be done with it but i keep answering it honestly. >> happy to know that governor christie wasn't sure what he had to do to convince reporters that he wasn't running for president other than kill himself, so, however, i will sort of out your brother here who was asked about 2012 who said, well, i'm not going to get into it because my candidate isn't running, my brother jeb. so you are kind of contributing to this. >> i am. no question about it. and urged him to seriously consider running for president because i think he would be a great president. and but he's chosen not to run this time, and i finally have believed him. >> see? so you're getting somewhere. >> thank you, brother. >> you notice this time.

>> you know what? you never say never about anything. i answer the questions forthrightly about 2012. i will be involved. i have an education reform foundation trying to improve the plight of our education systems around the country, and i'm helping candidates that i believe in, and you know what? i'm switzerland as it relates to national republican politics. which gives me a chance to have my voice heard quietly the way i like it. >> your mother recently, and it was in conjunction with an appearance you had on oprah, i think, somebody asked something and she said, you know, i think the country's bushed out right now which very much sounded like your mom. if your brother's last name were not bush, a, would you have run? b, would he have had a better shot? >> well, first of all, it's hard to disassociate the man sitting here with how he was raised.

and we're both raised by great parent who is gave us unconditional love and taught us values and the nobility of serving. so it's a hard question to answer. it's kind of the old classic if my name were george, you know, jones, would -- >> country western singer. >> wait a minute. >> that's my line. >> i like it. i liked it so much i stole it. >> that's what brothers do. >> yes. >> i have to ask you. there's lots of chatter, and you're right. i mean, i think you can say as many times as you want. you're always going to get this, what about 2016 and what about 2020? let's leave that there because the chatner washington now, if you're out reading the blogs, is that you would be great as chairman of the republican national committee. would you be interested in that? >> no. i mean, if i'm trying to achieve financial security for my family and not running for office i wouldn't run for rnc chairman. >> and why do you think all of this talk is always out there? first, let me ask you, why's

this talk always out there about your brother? >> first, he's a successful person. he's smart. he's honest. and he had an unbelievably good record as the governor of florida. >> and that's -- i mean, and your last name is bush and so there's always sort of chatter about that. >> but had he been a failure as governor of florida, they wouldn't be touting him, and if he wasn't an honest guy, they wouldn't be touting him and if he wasn't a decent person who had a great heart, they wouldn't be touting him. >> if you had to write your brother's political legacy, his attempt to kind of try to help shape the legacy, what would be your opening statement? >> he kept us safe. >> and you would go with that? >> first of all, i don't want to correct you, but i will. i'm not trying to shape my legacy. i'm trying to provide data points for future historians. i want people who are going to write an objective history of this administration to know what it was like. and as far as our fellow citizens here, there's going to be some people that didn't agree with my decisions even after

they read the book, but at least they'll have a better feeling about why i decided what i decided. see, i don't believe in shaping legacies. i think that -- >> hard to do. >> the history's been done. i mean, the decisions have been made, and now it's a matter of time. >> so one question for and one question for you. who do you think was the better president, 41 or 43? >> that's just 15-yard penalty loss of down. you can't -- >> kill it, 41. >> safe going with the dad. you know? >> absolutely. >> i think that says something about your relationship. >> particularly with the mother. >> you're dealt with the conditions you serve as president really define a lot of the presidency. >> yeah. >> you're dealt with circumstances. and both of them were dealt with completely different circumstances. and did great. how about that? >> that was very political of you. very good political answer. >> diplomatic. >> that's right, diplomatic. your father, 41, has said that he looks at bill clinton like another son. so who's been the better brother, jeb or bill?

>> i knew that was coming. >> you did? why didn't you warn me? jeb. we're fond of bill clinton. he's -- i tell you. he's been incredibly gracious to our dad, and if somebody is gracious to our father, he ingratiates himself to us, and we're grateful to bill clinton. >> governors bush, both governors at one time, at the same time, governor jeb bush thank you so much for joining us. >> you bet. >> president bush, you as well. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. h. or let you spend it in any way you want like for gas and groceries? nah. or help with everyday bills like aflac does? nah nah nah. [ male announcer ] there's aflac and there's everything else. visit aflac.com for an agent or quote. aflac!

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i first met george w. bush as the enforcer and sometimes the nasty combatant in the dying days of his father's president bush failing re-election bid. later george bush was elected the texas governor and i saw him in the election bid of bob dole, once again bush proved a very loyal and this time much more chipper, happier warrior on behalf of bob dole. already there was buzz around the younger george bush that one day this was a man who would run for president. i talked to him in his last days after his eight years in the oval office. he was then a certain man, and he was also