at least i'm informed about it. people may not think i'm right but i think the vast majority of the informed community in terms of national strategic doctrine knows that is in my wheelhouse. i still have great relationships in the united states senate. so the president asked me to coordinate the efforts of state department, of the defense department, the intelligence community in making the best case possible to the united states senate.

something i spent a lot of years trying to do. >> larry: are you going to get it? >> i think we are going to get it. >> larry: let's go to other things. was the term "shellacking" correct as to what happened to you guys and ladies? >> look. we lost the house as big as we had won it, bigger than we had won it. we hung onto the senate. but as i was saying briefly coming in, if you take a look at where the unemployment rates were highest you just tack on an r as opposed to a d in most of the districts. it's awful hard to win elections when there is 9.5, 9.6, 9.7% unemployment. so it was a real loss. but there was a real message sent. the message was they didn't have a lot of faith in the republican party. don't have lot of faith in the

democratic party. so it's like, okay, we want you guys to work together. >> larry: but shouldn't you have focused on jobs before the health bill? >> well, look -- >> larry: in retrospect. >> that can be argued. some argued that beforehand. the idea that we weren't focused in on jobs while we were focused on health care is not accurate. when you turn on the television every day for a year and it's just health care, all the work we were doing on creating jobs and dealing with trade and all those issues, it's not anybody -- i'm not complaining. i'm just stating a fact. it just is not surfaced. that's why you are going to see for the next two years that all we are about is american competitiveness, american -- made in america and american jobs. and we need to cooperate -- democrats and republicans. >> larry: shouldn't the president have been doing a better job in the area of -- what's reality and what's

perception? did he do a poor job in perception? >> look, he didn't misunderstand at all the dilemma we faced, but he knew for example, that -- again, this is our responsibility. this is not -- the buck stops with us. it actually stops with the president. he's the guy that makes the final decision, god love him. but here's the deal. we found ourselves in a position where the banks were collapsing, so we had to make sure the financial markets were stabilized. there was no popular thing you could possibly do. it would have been easier to pass through the senate and house a resolution saying protect rattlesnakes. i understand that. we believe we had a deal with long-term debt and the biggest driver of that is health care cost. that's the unspoken part about the health care bill we passed. it's about the savings long term in terms of health care.

but we could have done a lot of things better in retrospect. >> larry: including perception, right? >> including perception. but we have learned from where we are and we are determined to take advantage of the lessons and not, you know, have the perception clearly focused. >> larry: what's behind the postponement of the slurpee summit? >> well, there is a lot. the truth of the matter is i met with mitch mcconnell, talked with john boehner when i called to congratulate him. these guys want to meet. >> larry: so? >> and so now the 30th. it was never nailed down finally for this thursday. i think it's much ado being made about not much at all. we're going to be meeting on the 30th. the president and i. and the leadership. well, the republican leadership. it will be the house and senate

republican leadership. i assume that will include the number two and number three in the house and the senate. but mainly it's john boehner and it is mitch mcconnell. and, look, i know both these guys. i work with them. i get on well with them. i think there ought to be places where we can agree and the most important thing we can agree on is how to grow the economy. >> larry: we'll be right back with the vice president of the united states. his wife's going to join us later. we'll particularly improve this set. don't go away. >> that's true. ou billy? what? i didn't buy this cereal to sweet talk your taste buds it's for my heart health. good speech dad. [ whimper ] [ male announcer ] honey nut cheerios tastes great and its whole grain oats can help lower cholesterol. bee happy. bee healthy.

>> larry: we're back with the vice president of the united states. nancy pelosi's coming back, this time at minority leader. she was a lightning rod.

>> oh, yeah. when you spend $65 million to make someone a lightning rod, it works. i go back far enough i can remember when tip o'neal was the lightning rod. remember the off-year race with reagan. >> larry: i sure do. >> she's the most effective person in generating results in the house. the house members decided she was the one. >> larry: people either like her or they don't. she's not a halfway. >> i think that's the case with almost all great leaders. people either liked ronald reagan or didn't. they liked george bush or didn't. they liked clinton or didn't. >> larry: do you think pelosi is a great leader? >> i think she is. she's a very effective and competent person. she gets things done. it's easy to, you know, in this environment to characterize someone. again, if you notice, the thing i love about her, never complain and never explain. my dad's notion. this is one tough, smart lady. let's get to business. let's move on and see what we

can get done. >> larry: are you going to extend the bush tax cuts? >> well, look -- >> larry: for all the rich folk. >> no. let me tell you what our position is. our position is we want to permanently extend the tax cuts for middle class people for the top 98% of the wage earners in america -- or the 98% of the wage earners in america. we don't think we can afford to extend permanently the tax cuts for the top 2%. that would blow another $700 billion hole in the budget. and so our position is permanent for the middle class and not permanent for the top. >> larry: temporarily -- >> we're going to be sitting down on the 30th with the republicans. the republican leadership and say, guys, here's our position, what's yours, let's see if we can work something out. we're not looking for confrontation. we know if we don't extend tax cuts for the middle class it's unfair and will have an

incredible drag on the economy? >> larry: you don't want to lose the left, do you? >> no, but we want to do what's right for the country and what's right for the country in terms of fairness and economic growth is giving the middle class, who's been battered from 2001 to 2008, they lost 5% of their worth, their income. and, you know, i don't want to take away from them now. look, a family of four making $50,000, a man and woman, they get a $2100 tax break now. put it another way. if you don't extend it their taxes go up $2100. for a family of four that means the difference between paying their automobile insurance to drive their automobiles to work if they have a job. a family of four making $100,000, that's $4100, a difference to keeping two kids in school and particularly if one is a private institution. this matters to people who make

less than $250,000. >> we're going to touch bases here. you're here. >> fire away. >> larry: i'm leaving soon. >> i'm going with you. >> larry: we both left the sinking ship. what do you make of the charlie rangel matter? >> oh, you know -- >> larry: is he a friend? >> he is a friend. i don't know the details, but when the ethics committee, a bipartisan committee rules he violated x number of rules in the house it's hard to argue against. i think the rules apply, but i don't know the details. >> larry: they don't put him out though, do they? >> i hope not. i don't think so. i don't know enough -- i give you my word -- i don't know enough about the specifics of each of the rulings. >> larry: all right. sarah palin has apparently confirmed that she's thinking of running for president. how does that make joe biden think?

>> well, you know -- look, i think sarah palin has turned out to be and she is a real force in the republican party. and i think sarah palin is -- were i a republican senator or a republican political leader, i would look and say, well, she's got a good chance of getting the nomination. but, look, it's hard enough for us to figure out our side of the aisle let alone go over and handicap whether she can win or lose. >> larry: what do you think of her? >> i personally like her. if you have met her, she's an appealing person. when we campaigned -- we debated, there was not a harsh word. we have a fundamentally different outlook on the world. and i think that would be a really interesting race. >> larry: would that be a race you would like to take on? >> my mom used to have an

expression, be careful what you wish for, joe, you may get it. i never underestimate anyone. but i think in that race it would be a clear, clear choice for the country to make. and i believe president obama would be in very good shape. >> larry: the white house shot down the rumors that you and hillary clinton were going to do a switch. >> i tried, but it didn't work. >> larry: you wanted steak, didn't you? >> no, no. here's the deal. the president and i -- there was never any serious talk ever that anyone ever heard about me not being on the ticket with him or her not staying as state. >> larry: woodward started it. >> even bob backed off on that. what he said -- and i read his book. what he basically said was when she was being considered for secretary of state it was

suggested by one of her pollsters she should take it because maybe there would be the opportunity to be vice president. hillary's made it clear right from the first time it came out, joe, i don't want to be vice president. the president has made it clear, joe, i expect you to be on the ticket. i want you to be on the ticket. it was a washington parlor game. >> larry: more with the vice president of the united states right after this. the love i hae for strawberry shortcake, threw a curve at my curves. so i threw it right back... with yoplait light -- around 100 calories. now i love my curves in all the right places. ♪ >> ( creature inhaling ) >> ( branches breaking ) >> ( creature growling ) >> ( horse hoofs beating ) >> ( horse nickering ) >> ( train whistle blowing ) >> ( engine revving )

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collectively, the generation of soldiers, sailors and airmen and marines who have served and sacrificed for us are the heart and soul, the very spine of this nation. >> larry: we're back with joe biden, the vice president, the former guantanamo detainee is tried in a civilian court, acquitted on all but one of 280 charges. the other side says he should have been found guilty on all of them. one side said though if it's a result of terror you can't introduce it in court. where do you stand? >> well, if it's a result of torture -- >> larry: torture, i'm sorry. >> the fact of the matter is what's going to happen is he's going to jail for a minimum of 20 years to life.

had he been tried in a tribunal which some of the critics say he should have been tried in a military tribunal, the same evidence and they voted for the change and the same evidence would have been inadmissible. if we held him, as some suggested on the right, held him indefinitely as a detainee, a prisoner of war the idea that guantanamo is going to be around in 50 years and him still in jail, i think the bets are better. this proves what george bush did when you go to so-called article iii courts, you can't try them in federal court, you have to worry about terrorists attacking the court. you can't try tome in federal courts they won't get sentenced. he's getting a longer sentence. he'll be in jail longer than if any other method were tried. same thing george bush tried with the shoe bomber, with the 24th hijacker. >> you're saying in the future with others you would go civilian court? >> yeah. there is no reason not to based on this case at least. >> larry: okay.

in week one of the administration your president signed an executive order requiring the gitmo detention facility closed within a year. >> yep. >> larry: still there. >> still there. >> larry: why? >> we found out there is a lot of tough cases in there that present real, real difficult situations. and our intention is still to close it. but we could not meet that within a year. >> larry: spoke too soon? >> well -- i speak for myself. i spoke too soon. because, quite frankly, we didn't have all the detailed data on every single prisoner, the status of that prisoner, what that prisoner's circumstance was, whether we could move them into an article iii court, whether they could be released, et cetera, or whether they should be tried in a military court. that's the process being whittled down to the point where we are able to deal with having to either transfer, move, try o

release everyone that's in that prison system. >> are you saying it's going to be around a while? >> well, i don't know how much longer it's going to be around. but the rest of the world understands we're making a good faith effort to deal with it and that it's helped us a great deal in our war against terror. the longer using the argument that was being used three years ago that, you know, americans don't mean what they say about civil liberties. we're getting overwhelming cooperation now from not only -- and i'm deeply involved in this -- not only from our year -- european friends but from muslim states and states where there is -- where al qaeda is trying to burrow in and reside. >> larry: wouldn't it have been politically smart, frankly, or come on the older hands of joe

biden, politically smart to announce tonight that in the future the trials like khalid mohammed will go to a military court, that would be a plus politically? >> it would be for people who didn't focus on it. but the example i gave you, the trial we just had. we are going to put this guy in jail longer than he ever would be had he gone to a military court. and what we want to show to the world is we are not afraid of putting our criminal justice system for the whole world to see. there is no reason that we are a nation of laws and we can accomplish our end of taking these very bad guys off the street for a long, long time, if not forever. >> larry: joe biden is our guest. he's been the point man on iraq. what is your assessment of how that country is doing? >> oh, it's doing very, very

well. here's the deal. it took them a long time to form a government because it was a close election. they have now formed a government that reflects -- the only demand i made, and i have been on the phone or i have been there six times since we have been elected. i know every one of the iraqi leaders by their first names. i know their children. i know them. we have been deeply involved. we have a great ambassador and a general in general austin. we have been deeply involved in helping them facilitate the government that reflects the outcome of the election. they always say in a new democracy the most important election is the second one. a lot of them have a first one but they don't have a second one. what's happened now is that there is a real power sharing arrangement underneath, within the context of their constitution. we have kept our commitment. we said we'd end this war responsibly. we got all the troops out of the cities last summer.

we brought home 100,000 troops we promised this summer and we are going to be out of there by the end of 2011 and we are going to leave behind a stable government because the iraqis stepped up to the ball. politics broke out in iraq. >> larry: we'll ask about afghanistan right after this. [ ] ♪ doggie in my chair is not thrilling me... ♪ ♪ woof, woof [ sniffs ] ♪ boots fit well but they are killing me ♪ [ groans ] ♪ oh, something on this bed's got the funky smell ♪ ♪ oh, no [ sniffs ] ♪ all this mildew is just not going well ♪ ♪ what's worse, this couch... [ sniffs ] ♪ this closet... ♪ this bag, ohhh! [ male announcer ] eliminate 7 everyday odors in the things you can't wash with febreze. febreze gets rid of odors... and leaves a light fresh scent. never a harsh smell. [ family ] ahhhhhh... ♪ [ male announcer ] it's a breath of fresh air.

operation iraqi freedom is over, but american engagement with iraq will continue with the mission that begins today -- operation new dawn. as the name suggests, this ceremony not only marks the change of a command, but the start of a different chapter in relationship with iraq. >> larry: we're with vice president joe biden. this is his -- get this -- 49th appearance on "larry king live" and we have been on the air 25 1/2 years. that's two a year. okay. the joe biden i know.

>> i want to be honest with you. >> larry: afghanistan. a lot of americans say, "leave." >> i don't blame them for wanting to say that. here are the facts in afghanistan. we inherited a war that had been neglected for eight years. first thing the president asked me to do before we got sworn in after we got elected is he said joe, go there and determine what we need to do. i came back and said, you ask ten of our commanders, ten civilians why they think we are there and you get ten answers. there is no clear rationale why we are there. we sat down and i recommended and he added the notion of why we are there. we are there to make sure al qaeda is ultimately defeated. what everybody now calls al qaeda central in the mountains in ak stan and afghanistan that they cannot use afghanistan as a platform.

number two we give the freely elected government the opportunity to protect itself against the taliban and any other interests it can't reconcile with and train up their forces. we said, we are going to add additional resources to get that done. we are going to begin to transition our military out of iraq -- excuse me, afghanistan, this coming summer. and now all of nato, the president is about to head off to meet with nato. >> larry: in lisbon. >> in lisbon. we will agree to transition and in 2014 it is theirs to take care of themselves in terms of security. >> larry: americans may say, but how many die before 2014? >> well, unfortunately if one dies it's one too many. i had a son who spent a year in iraq and every single day i got up and every single day i haven't -- having been to iraq

17, 18 times it was on my mind. i would walk in, i swear to god, and jill would be making toast or making coffee, saying a prayer. every minute if you have a son, daughter, husband, wife there, every minute it's on your mind. this is what we inherited and we had to finish it. we are making significant progress against al qaeda. it has been diminished in that so-called al qaeda central and at the same time we are moving into a new position where we are not going to need american forces in those 34 provinces protecting the afghani people. they will begin to do that themselves. our nato allies believe we can begin to transition those 34 provinces beginning in january. >> larry: do you have faith in president karzai? >> look, i have known president karzai for a long, long time. i think he's in a very difficult position.

you know, we could argue that there could be a stronger leader. but you deal with the hand you're dealt as the old saying goes. and we are all on the same page now for the first time. the american military, the american civilians, the administration. the congress, the nato, our allies, the afghanis. here's the deal. you've got to step up your capability. we'll help train your folks. we cannot want peace and security more than you want it in your villages and homes. we are going to help train you. in the meantime, we -- a lot of our critics say you shouldn't set a deadline to get out. the reason we needed to do that is the same reason we did in afghanistan. we had to say listen, you've got to step up, man. daddy's going to start to take the training wheels off in october -- i mean in next july. so you better practice riding. >> the wife will be joining us shortly. one other thing i want to cover

before she does join us. that's don't ask, don't tell. >> yep. >> larry: you were against it, as i understand. >> i am. >> larry: certainly the president is against it. >> yeah. >> larry: most of the administration is against it. apparently they polled troops and they are against it. you poll america and they are against it. why is it a policy? >> look, this is complicated for people to understand. >> larry: simplify it. >> as easy as i can say it is congress passed a policy it has not repealed yet. >> larry: the president could sign it away, can't he? >> he cannot. but the president can theoretically tell the justice department to breach what is the understanding that all justice departments have. justice departments are obliged to defend laws constitutionally passed by the united states congress and signed by former presidents. >> larry: so he has to defend it for now. >> we are pushing as hard as we can.

we had a meeting today with the leadership and the congress saying we very much would like to see you pass legislation now saying end don't ask, don't tell. >> larry: dick cheney -- not dick cheney. i'm sorry. colin powell was here the other night. >> yeah. >> larry: he said he supports john mccain in this matter. let's wait until we do the whole investigation by the military. let's wait until we hear from everybody. don't rush it. do you agree with that? >> we are going to see that shortly. there will be a report in december coming from the defense department on their recommendation. so as my grandpoppy used to say with the grace of god there will be confluence of the two. >> larry: we'll be right back with the better half. fiber one chewy bar. how'd you do that? do what? it tastes too good to be fiber. you made it taste like chocolate. it has 35%

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>> larry: we're back. he's been on 49 times over the years. this is her first appearance. dr. jill biden taught three classes today at her school. she is, of course -- what are you, missus first lady? >> second lady or captain of the vice team. >> larry: has he changed? >> oh, no. he hasn't changed. >> larry: now he's vice president. has he changed? >> no, i don't think. not at all. >> larry: you say that you love

her more than she loves you. >> everybody knows that. >> larry: do you think so? >> um, probably. >> oh, god. >> larry: you taught three classes -- >> i did. >> larry: you teach -- >> i teach writing. i teach english at northern virginia community college. >> larry: why do you continue to work? >> well, it's what i do. you know, i have been an english teacher for 30 years and it's what i love. when we were elected i said to joe, i'm going to continue to teach. >> i strongly encouraged it. look, i think it's really important that someone in jill's position as second lady or the wife of an elected official if they want to has their own separate sphere. she's deeply involved in matters relating to the white house. besides, she loves it. >> larry: he's always been supportive of my career and whatever i do. >> larry: were you teaching when you met? >> yeah, i was. >> larry: at the college level?

>> no. i taught high school for 13 years actually. >> larry: why do you like teaching so much? >> i think especially at the community college, i think i do make a difference in their lives. you know, they are working, going to school, raising families. >> larry: 18, 19, 20? >> no. all ages. actually, i think 26 is the average age of a community college student. i think i make a difference. i can make a difference. >> larry: i see you a lot with michelle obama for public service announcements. how do you two really get along? >> we really like one another. i think from the very beginning when we got together i think, you know, fate brought us together. she had her projects that she was interested in and i had mine, but the one thing we came together was military families. so that's what we are working on together. we have a lot of fun together. >> larry: we just heard your

husband talk about iraq and afghanistan. you talk to military families, right? >> we do. >> larry: wives, husbands, children. >> children, yeah. >> larry: we know we always hear about the military families who say, we support them. do you hear from people who say, we don't support? >> never. not from americans, no. >> larry: don't say we wish you would bring them back? >> of course we wish we would bring them back. >> we always hear, can you get my son or daughter home quicker. >> yeah. >> larry: what do you say to that? >> well, i think i saw the earlier segment and i think that's what joe and barack are trying to do. they brought our troops out of iraq like they said they were going to. now they are going to start to bring them out of afghanistan. >> it's interesting watching jill's reaction when she came to iraq into the war zone with me on the fourth of july. it was interesting to watch her -- well, it was fascinating. >> i met with women soldiers

who, you know, had kids going off to college and i met with mothers who had to actually -- if their husbands were deployed and they had to leave their children with another family. you know, they are incredible men and women and they never complain about their circumstances and, really, i just feel such pride in our force. >> larry: your son was there, your step-son. >> we don't say "step," lar. >> larry: you don't? >> son. >> larry: back after this. [ male announcer ] it's a rule of nature. you don't decide when vegetables reach the peak of perfection. the vegetables do. at green giant, we pick vegetables only when they're perfect. then freeze them fast so they're are as nutritious as fresh. [ green giant ] ho ho ho.

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>> larry: we are back with the bidens. what a couple they are. you had to go through the loss of a wife. >> i did. no man deserves one great love let alone two. i got lucky. >> larry: is this your first marriage? >> no. this is my second. >> larry: so you have had two loves -- >> well, yes, maybe. >> larry: that's a great line. >> i love you. >> larry: back to the military. that was funny. the outgoing chairman of the house arms services committee ike skelton says he worries that there is a chasm between american civilians and the military families and their thoughts. a lot of civilians say, let's get out of there. the military families, let's stay in there. that seems a contradiction. you would think the military

families would be more interested in them coming home. >> i know ike well. he and i talked at length about here you have 1% of the population fighting these wars and does the other 99% understand what they are going through. that was one of the chasms that ike was speaking about. anyway, you were asked the question. i apologize. >> but i think that they are so proud of what they are doing. i mean, that's their job. that's what they are committed to do. and they have pride in their work, in what they are doing. >> larry: do they understand it? >> i think they do understand it. how could they not understand it with all the news coverage? >> larry: you came into an administration headed by a man very opposed to war -- well, who isn't? but voted against iraq. is that perception -- maybe both of you -- changed in the past

two years? >> look, he was against the war in iraq because he thought it could have been avoided and it should have been avoided. in the very beginning he was not against. he felt we had to react in afghanistan where al qaeda came in and actually killed us. the thing that was interesting about the confluence of his commitment to make america safe and what jill does running around the country is there is a great phrase, only 1% of the americans are fighting the war but 99% owe them their support. it's really interesting. both jill and barack are from the vietnam -- not from the vietnam era. >> larry: you are. >> i am. what jill and barack wanted to make sure and michelle -- and i agree -- that coming home from these wars that they never are treated like the guys in my generation that came home. instead of being spat upon, they

would be embraced. that's why i think -- in fact i know -- why jill and michelle spend so much time going around the country reminding people. >> larry: do you meet with people who have lost people? >> oh, yes, all the time. >> how do you deal with that? >> it is really hard. joe and i have spent a lot of time with wounded warriors. actually, next monday we're having dinner for wounded warriors at the residence. we did it last thanksgiving. we have been to many, many hospitals, burn centers. it's tough. it's really tough. >> larry: there is no formula, is there? >> no. there is no formula. but the one thing that -- one of the reasons i wanted joe to join this administration is that barack wanted to get out of iraq and i so badly wanted to get out of iraq, especially since i had a son going to iraq.

>> larry: more than you? >> i wanted to get out of iraq, but i didn't initially want to be vice president. when asked initially, i said -- he said he needed an answer right away. i said, if you need an answer now barack, the answer is no. he said, well, go home and talk to your family about it and get back to me. that really surprised me. at home jill said, you've got to do this. this is not a woman who was pushing me to run for president before, wanted me to be vice president. it was her firm conviction about iraq. >> larry: i only have a short time left, but i want to ask about the reaction your boy had after iraq to before iraq. then i will ask about community college. we'll be right back.

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>> larry: we're back with the bidens. did iraq change your son? >> i don't think so, do you, joe? >> i don't think it changed him. i think he came away with an overwhelming impression about the men and women he served with. no joke, i mean. he said, dad, you'd be amazed at these guys and these women. you'd be amazed. i was not amazed. i was there so many times. but jill came with me, and an interesting thing. on the way bang, i said, you know, jill, i feel guilty. i was here four times during the year bo was here in iraq, and i always felt guilty i got to see him. i said, i wish you had.

tell him your reaction. >> i said, if i had been, if i had gone when bo was there, i couldn't have left him there. i don't think any mother who goes to a war zone could ever leave a child in a war zone. >> a couple of things. you said that america's community colleges are its best kept secret. in what way? >> well, i think community colleges offer so much and especially in this economy. you know, they're -- people come to them for job training. they're a fraction of the cost of four-year colleges. >> you never hear about them much. >> well, i hope that's changed. >> you're changing it. >> i hope that's changed because this administration so supports community colleges and education. that's one of the joys of working in this administration. >> she's even spoken in an international forum in the u.n.

about everyone trying to set up harvards of the world in these developing countries. what you've got to do is set up community colleges quickly. you get the most bang for the buck. people get substantial careers out of them, and it's a good buy. >> when we come back in our remaining moments, i want to talk about holiday travel and tsa. or my heart health. good speech dad. [ whimper ] [ male announcer ] honey nut cheerios tastes great and its whole grain oats can help lower cholesterol. bee happy. bee healthy.

>> larry: thanksgiving's right around the corner. what are you making? a lot of discussion now in america. everybody's got an opinion. the pat-down policy. there's going to be millions of airports. >> look, larry, maybe because i spend so much time every morning dealing with the threat asse assessment that's out there and the fact that it's real, i understand people's frustration, but i -- unless there's a new technology that comes along pretty quickly, i think it's a necessary policy. i think it will have the effect of saving lives, intercepting

explosives or before it can happen. >> but in a democracy, it's an invasion. i mean, it is an invasion. >> it is, but if you think about it, i mean, really, we're fighting -- i mean, terrorism is -- it's a threat. i think americans should -- i mean, they should realize it and put up with it, i think. >> anyone in the administration against doing it? >> no. we're all in the administration saying, continue to look to see what the best technology, the least intrusive, that gives us the greatest security. >> how are you guys spending thanksgiving? >> we go to nantucket, and we've done it for over 30 years to get away. >> we've spent 35 years, back after we first got -- five years after the accident, i met jill. i had an administrative assistant, a wonderful guy, and i was 20 years older. my mom and dad wanted me to come to dinner, her mom and dad, and my deceased wife's m