oswald. officers swept into the area and soon arrested oswald. we're monitoring all those nasty storms that could cause problems with your holiday travel plans this week. tune in for the latest conditions and travel at 4:00 eastern time and making the most of the job you have. how to tackle annual performance reviews. i'm fredricka whitfield. "your $$$$$" starts right now. >> do you want a quick fix or a long-term solution? the clock is ticking on a lame duck congress deciding which option to choose to deal with your taxes and millions of unemployed americans. welcome to "your $$$$$." i'm ali velshi. here are numbers that matter. jobless benefits which last for an unprecedented 99 weeks will run out on december 30th. democrats are pushing for another 12.5 billion to extend the deadline to the end of february. this would extend the safety net for 4 million americans by

another three months. christine romans joins me now. congress extended this deadline four times in the past year. unemployment still above 9%. what are we supposed to do? what happens in this doesn't pass? what happens if that lifeline to so many millions of americans depending on this unemployment check goes away? >> 4 million people will not have a check every week and that means that money doesn't go into the economy. we know economists say a quick money to get the money into the economy is food stamps. 40 million americans are accepting food stamps right now and jobless benefits. those people take that money and use it right away. we're under a new kind of reality in washington and that is this is an emergency situation that's chronic and we need to figure out how to pay for the benefits and what the long-term solution may be. >> rowland, the tide is turning to when it comes to how americans think about government

spending. in 1983 and 1994 when we polled just one in three americans wanted the government to spend less on domestic programs. one in three. today americans are split evenly on whether to cut government spending or not. washington has spent $109 billion in the past three years on jobless benefits. are americans ready to cut off the long-term unemployment because it's costing them too much on their taxes? >> first of all, the people who likely have jobs are the people who have not been adversely impacted. of course they are saying that. when you look at the people who talk about the deficit, these are likely not the people who have been struggling. earlier this week tom read a letter from a woman who for three years has been unable to find a job. her son talked about how she's been sending out resumes and going to the library and pounding the pavement and couldn't afford $70 for a truck test to become a trucker. she pays 600 a month for her rent. if she's late, it cost her $800.

her mom is moving in with her. republicans are talking about extending tax cuts for rich that will cost $700 billion. 700 billion for them. we spend 100 plus billion for unemployment benefits. i say money well spent because as christine said that money goes right back into the economy. so what happens? they become homeless? they go on food stamps? what happens to those 4 million people? >> let's bring steven moore in. roland makes an interesting point. 109 billion over three years for unemployment benefits which we know and all agree goes quite directly into the economy because people on food stamps and unemployment benefits don't have a cushion and have to spend money versus the 700 billion or so for extending the tax cuts. first i want your view on that. secondly, is there some trade to be had here with republicans saying you extend tax cuts and we'll extend unemployment benefits? >> well, i do believe that we should provide a cushion for people who lose their job. there's no question about that. but i think two years of

unemployment insurance is unacceptable. i think this example that you were all talking about three years getting government benefits. people should be able to find a job, any job after six months, nine months a year. unemployment insurance extensions don't expand the economy at all. they hurt the economy. people don't start looking for a job until benefits run out. >> we were talking about this just the other day. >> normal times economists say there's a percentage of people that don't look for a job. these aren't normal times. there aren't any jobs. we don't have enough jobs. the issue is not whether we should keep extending unemployment benefits. i agree you can't do that for forever. the question is when are the jobs going to so people have a job to go to. that is the question and concern. >> here is my problem with the kind of compromise that was laid out.

i think it's essential that we extend these tax cuts, quote, for the rich, because those are the employers in the country. if you take money out of the hands of the employers, they don't have money for hiring people. we know from the statistics most of the people would get hit with the tax increase are people that are employers. let's face it, without employers you don't have jobs. maybe, ali, i like your idea. i'd go for a deal that says extend the tax cuts for everybody, i don't think the economy could stand a tax increase but also extend unemployment insurance. you've got the framework for a deal. >> that's money we don't have. >> in soledad o'brien's black in america three, she profiled a gentleman who had an executive job and showed how many months he's been unemployed and how many times he's sent out resumes and how he took off his vice presidential title and applying for jobs not even close to what he's making and unable to find it. when you say you should be able to find a job.

stephen, you have a job. i have one. the people out there we're hearing from them who are busting their butts and they can't find a job even one far below where they were before. >> everybody hold on. i want to continue this discussion. you'll get a -- stephen, save it for the other side. i'll come right back to you. you're staying right there. in january the republicans do take over the house. what stephen says will go a long way. we'll ask him what changes when the republicans takeover. we'll be right back. [ female announcer ] imagine skin so healthy, it never gets dry again.

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contact td ameritrade for a prospectus containing this and other information. read it carefully before investing. before the break everyone was hot under the collar. the extension of unemployment benefits versus cutting those people off and having them fend for themselves in the economy. >> it's a tough economy. how is it immigrants can come into this country from mexico or central america and within weeks of being here they have two or three jobs. there are jobs for people who want to work. a lot of people -- >> picking lettuce and citrus and things like that. >> here is the point. >> can he correct steve on something, please? >> people are working hard to make ends meet, working two or three jobs, why should they pay more taxes for people two years who aren't going out to mcdonald's and getting a job. >> two things. first of all, stephen, you contracted yourself. you talked about the rich folks

who have far more money. they're not the ones working two or three jobs. they're forcing people below them to work two or three jobs. that's first. >> a lot of them are working hard. >> cnn has even showed based on previous data where you have had immigrants from mexico who actually some 4 million who went back because of the economy last year so don't assume that they are taking jobs. when you talk about those very people, christine mentioned 4 million. 4 million also have children. 4 million have children who are in school. and so it goes beyond just the 4 million. the question you talk about housing, homeless shelters, as a result the normal safety net that is now fallen because of a tough economy. >> i want your opinion on both of these things. another poll i want to show you. we asked people in the recent cnn opinion research poll were republican victories in the u.s. house races mandate for republican policies or a

rejection of democratic policies. 70% say they were a rejection of democratic policies. stephen moore, how do republicans in congress now govern given that kind of a response? >> well, i agree with that poll completely. i think election result were a repudiation of democratic policies and what were those policies? what were people saying around the country? stop spending. that's the mandate for this new congress that means we have to bring some of these programs under control. but we also have to -- i keep hearing this talk about how we have to help people who don't have jobs. the best way to help people who don't have jobs is get them a job. i reject the idea that putting more taxes on employers is the way to get more jobs. >> we need more jobs. we all agree on that. >> first of all, can you answer the question? all you did was protect the same thing. the bottom line is this here, you asked the question, what are republicans going to do. you know what, ali they are not going to touch defense.

they are not going to confront medicare, social security. you know why? they understand when you tackle such monumental issues you're going to get burned. they are not going to touch immigration reform. they saw what happened to democrats when they touch health care. so where the bulk of our spending is, those three issues, republicans are not going to do it. they are going to focus on discretionary spending. >> i don't think that's fair. i'm very much -- i like a lot, christine, what that bipartisan commission came up with. it does touch social security, medicare, actually -- on the left no, we can't touch programs. >> nonelected commission. my point is this here, politicians, democrat and republicans do not want to tackle tough issues. they are not going to take tough votes. they are going to nibble around the edges. again, $500 billion discretionary spending. money on issues, show me -- >> we'll wrap up. we'll continue this discussion

lots. love having you guys on here. i wish we had voted for both of you in congress. christine, roland, stephen, always a pleasure to have you here. congress, world leaders, economists, even cartoons lining up to get their shot in at the federal reserve. >> so has the fed ever been right about anything? >> let me see if i can think of anything. no, nothing. >> who runs the fed? >> the fed is run by ben bernanke. >> why is ben bernanke so unpopular? we'll find out what's behind the criticism. don't change the channel. if you live for performance, upgrade to castrol edge advanced synthetic oil. with eight times better wear

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don't change the channel. i'm about to say qe 2. i am with you. i have lots of people around me, including christine romans, the plan to stimulate the economy by purchasing $600 billion in bonds is coming under attack this week from conservatives, economists, and republicans. a letter signed by more than 22 political strategists and economists sent to federal reserve chairman ben bernanke says, and i quote, we believe the federal reserve's large scale asset purchase plan, so-called quantitative easing, should be reconsidered and discontinued. douglas is president of the american action forum and former director of the congressional

budget office and one of the signatories of this letter. doug, good to see you. your signature is here. boil it down to 30 seconds for our viewers. what is the absolute bottom line objection to qe 2, second round of quantitative easing, this fed buyup of bonds to put more money into the economy. >> this particular episode have costs that far exceed the benefits. no one expects it to do much. it will create inflation, economic tensions, puts the fed back in a political cross fire. it's not worth it. it also represents a return to activism in monetary policy that doesn't serve us well in the '60s and '70s. we have to look at these lessons and not do this. >> you don't buy ben bernanke and feds want the economy on the stronger footing, that's the most important thing first and foremost. if you don't get the economy on stronger footing we can't resolve global problems we're talking about. >> i believe they want to put the u.s. on stronger footing. this won't do it.

we disagree on the substance of this policy. >> what should the fed do? nothing? >> i think the fed should hold onto this option in case we have a double dip recession. it would be valuable in that moment but not valuable now. >> richard, you have paid considerable attention to this and there has been considerable opposition from leaders around the world including the g-20 about this qe 2 that the u.s. is devaluing its currency and throwing off international efforts to fend off the reins of the recession. your thoughts. >> the germans have called it clueless. the brazilians have said it's a bit like throwing dollars out of a helicopter and just as useful. south africans have criticized it, as, indeed, have the chinese. the reasons they have criticized it, one of the reasons, one of the side effects of qe 2 will be to drive down the dollar. that's effectively a competitive

devaluation otherwise known as beggar thy neighbor policy. countries are concerned around the world. we're seeing a certain amount of protectionist, albeit small at the moment, response. for douglas position, there are two main oppositions to this. there are those that say qe 2 will not work for the feds mandate of employment and inflation. but there are those philosophically against it. they believe, as you were saying, the interventionist way to massage the economy in this manner is simply wrong. >> christine, what we've also seen is a currency war going on. we've seen the world tell china to raise currency. what did the u.s. do, in the end, by doing this, not the reason they did it, but by broug introducing this money over the next year into the economy or just suggesting they were doing so, it has devalued the u.s. dollar and made the u.s. dollar

lower versus other currencies. >> the treasury department doesn't run the fed but treasury defending what's going on in washington and saying we're not devaluing the dollar. we're trying to make the u.s. economy stronger. >> makes americans goods cheaper to purchase and harder to buy goods from other places. it had the affect of why wouldn't that help the u.s. economy? >> that's the goal creating jobs. i want to zero in on doug here, the idea this will not create jobs. this is what ben bernanke used so sell the idea to people or if this is about employment. do you think the jobs are going to come? >> look, this is at best going to drive down medium to long-term interest rates 30 to 40 basis points when they are at historic lows. we've got low interest rates. that's not our problem. our problems are deeper and involve the need for policies, cessation to heavy regulatory hand, rollback on health care reform. not raising taxes.

all of those things are controlled by people other than the federal reserve. they are well intentioned. but all they are going to do is create inflation. they are not going to change unemployment. that's going the wrong direction from the mandate. >> richard is groaning over there. >> first, i mean, the moment you heard doug say rollback health care plans, you know there's a political position or quasi political position. >> no, no. >> i disagree with that. this is bad law. >> it's a quasi political position you're taking in that respect. but the fact is to move to neutral territory, all those things he just suggested were not possible because of midterms now and the stalemate in washington. so the fed is the only game in town. if the fed doesn't do anything, things look a lot more risky. >> interesting thought. richard, thanks very much. this, of course, won't end any time soon. doug, thank you very much for clearing

clearing up your position and what this letter is all about. good to see you here. christine, we'll be back in a moment. they preach fiscal responsibility but will they have the backbone when it toss to tackling the deficit. we'll talk with a tea party member and an editor that thinks they are just barking mad. ogistd aveeno has an oat formula, now proven to build a moisture reserve, so skin can replenish itself. that's healthy skin for life. only from aveeno.

i just wish that all of the important information was gathered together in one place. [ printer whirs ] done. ♪ thanks. do you work here? not yet.

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we think it probably helps teachers be their best too. quaker instant oatmeal. does your breakfast make you amazing? >> a lot of controversy surrounding the tea party with americans still trying to figure out what the party stands for, what the movement stands for. it's not a party, it's a movement. 38% have a favorable view of the tea party movement. 42% have an unfavorable view. pretty close. 20% are unsure. let's bring in one of the founders, mark skoda founder and chairman of memphis tea party. mark, now that the tea party has had some remarkable victories in the midterm elections, a great deal of influence on the voters of america, what's the number one issue that the tea party is going to deal with? >> unquestionably, it is the debt, spending in washington that's out of control. i would say based on freshman orientations and discussions in

tennessee it's really about controlling the budget number one. >> mark, i want to bring in matt taibbi, also author of grift opia. you have been critical of the tea party movement. what's your issue with the tea party movement? are they not fiscal republicans by another name? >> they are. i'm actually sympathetic with a lot of things the tea party talks about. i think they have been manipulated by the republican party which to me is trying to make the tea party and their voters advocates of the economic policies that their campaign contributors would want, the people on wall street and the financial services industry are pushing for deregulatory policies they hope the tee paa y voters will support. >> interesting issue. some think the tea party manipulates the republican party and matt suggesting republicans are manipulating the tea party.

we've had the conversation. it's a weird alliance because a lot of things the tea party is concerned about with respect to spending and deficits and debts, were born by the republican party. >> absolutely. it's interesting, matt is right. somehow the per accepting is the republican party co-opted the tea party. there are a lot of disagreements we have. even here in the state of tennessee we had an election last night for nomination of house speaker. the tea party was against a particular nominee. she won by one vote. we have a problem with that. the way that went about. we're frankly an t lly antagoni the process. you can't segment the tea party saying it's a republican extension. it is not. we have fundamental disagreements. if you're looking at the food safety billion before us in committee, apparently a problem we'll deal with. spending generally we disagree with that we're not interested in supporting a specific agenda of the deregulatory environment that republicans have reported, we are focused on fiscal

responsibility and making sure the constitution is adhered to to the greatest extent possible, fidelity, if you will, and finally focusing on those free markets. i think you'll find quite frankly in the coming two years now that we've had this great legislative victory, i would argue the tea party amplified the affect. i won't take personal credit for it but amplified the affect. i think that's a positive outcome. >> let's look at this other poll i've got for you. it shows a real split on whether the tea party movement should become its own party. right now you're operating in congress with republicans. as you said, 48%, the same number said yes and no to the question, should the tea party movement become a third party that runs against the democrats and republicans. mark, your view on that? >> boy, you know, i have been one of the voices that suggests that doesn't work. there's such a huge infrastructure in place on both parties to overcome come that is difficult. one of the things i've suggested is getting involved in the

selecting candidates and focusing on primaries. having a said that, if republicans don't govern appropriately and address concerns of the tea party you'll see states form third party efforts. regrettably i think that's a potential disaster for conservatives. on the other hand this is america and we have freedom of choice still. i would suggest to you i think the republicans need to be aware of the aspirations of the tea party movements and, indeed, govern as such. >> matt, to what degree did the democrats cause this movement in perhaps not dealing with what felt like regular people, regular workers, taxpayers in america. there are some people who think this administration is focused too much on the financial sector and rescuing the financial sector. >> i think that's absolutely true. a lot of my sources on wall street say exactly the same thing. after the crash in 2008 when the economy was in ruin, everybody said this should have been a teaching moment for the democratic party where they went out to ordinary people and

blue-collar americans and said, look, this is what happened to you. you've been robbed, stolen from in the last two years. here is who did it. here who is responsible. we're going to fix this problem, come in with changes. ordinary americans were screaming for an explanation, what happened to us of the democrats didn't provide that explanation. the tea party did. they come up with a coherent suggestion that was diej digestible to people. barack obama brought back timothy geithner and ben bernanke, the two big architects of the bush bailout policy. >> but you remember at the time it sounded like a smart move, bring people in who know how the financial system works because it was coming apart at the seams. >> i don't see how you can run against the bush bailout policies if you have absolute continuity with their policies. that was a big debate and seeded a lot of the debate with the tea party. >> mark, would that change things if the administration would shake up advisers who seemed to be too close to this

wall street and deregulatory environment? >> i think sort of that's one element, right. but i think it's more about fundamental policy issues, how big government should be, how intrusive. look what's happening today in this discussion with tsa. we are talking about food justice. leave us alone a bit. we don't suggest eliminating the social net but we suggest that big government idea of federalizing state's rights is where we oppose a lot of policies particularly of the left of democratic administration. on the other hand i will tell you it is clear to me discussing with people in tennessee, a lot of people are focusing on the state issues. we won 985 seats in state legislatures, now it's time to act as legislators and be appreciative of the tea party's impact. >> excellent. thanks very much for joining us. mark skoda, founder and chairman of memphis tea party.

matt taibbi, editor for rolling stone and author of a book with a fantastic name. fantastic talking to you guys. thanks very much. once bankrupt general motors comes roaring back to wall street this week literally and figuratively. can the white house take credit for it? how a new york institution known for clowning around found itself in very serious financial turmoil. stephanie elam explains in this week's turn around. >> life isn't always the circus especially if you are the big apple circus. >> we've had a big cutback. >> a severe budget cut and layoffs and furloughs at the big apple but the show had to go on. >> what happens here in the ring is everything. we really made sure to protect that portion of the budget and made cuts elsewhere that we needed to. >> cutting the budget without cutting the quality of the performance. >> we are extremely careful and

there are some choices that i made to contribute to the overall savings but we have not cut corner in the product and the artistry that we deliver. i think it is a lot to be said about that. >> reporter: the circus raised over 1 million at its annual benefit gala. >> we see positive trends. we need to build on them and continue to do the work that we do but we're beginning to see some signs that the audiences are coming back. that's exciting to see. >> reporter: exciting signs for a company walking a financial tight rope. >> is this a turnaround season? i hope so. the thing about the business is it's not going to happen in one second. we have a long season. our performers know how to pace themselves because it is a long season. i think that's what we're going to have to do as a business. pace ourselves and build ourselves back. don't expect the silver bullet. keep working, doing the good work. i know people will support us.

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so long government motors. less than 18 months since the government steered general motors into bankruptcy, the bailout automaker has roared back. the initial public offering of stock raised more than $20 billion. a triumphant return to wall street that president obama touted as a success story of the recession.

>> we are finally beginning to see some of these tough decisions that we made in the midst of crisis pay off, and i'm absolutely confident that we're going to keep on making progress. >> peter valdez, writer from cnnmoney.com. christina, gm ipo. is this confirmation the obama auto bailout worked. with credit to george bush, he was in the idea as well. did this work? >> in a word, yes. but it worked in terms of surviving and keep the company alive. now it has to prove it can make a car people want to buy and compete against ford and others, ford who didn't have to have a bailout. had a nice turnaround as well. >> of the $5 billion taxpayers put in, there is still a lot of money outstanding. >> they are not made whole. how many jobs were saved by saving the company in the first place. depends how you rate the return

on investment. >> some say a million, i tend to believe that. peter forks all of the financials and whether they can pay back, gm has to do what any competitively privately owned car company can do, make cars people want to buy and make lots of them. >> gm has been on that path for a long time for building a better product. if you look at all their recent product introductions, the new buicks and lacrosse and look at the cadillac cts versions they've been doing, the cars are selling really, really well. they've been flying off the lots. one thing gh has learned how to do is make cars that people actually want to buy. in terms of things like dependability, they have some work to do in that department. ford motor company has become world-class on dependability. their cars they are turning out are as good as anything from gm toyota and honda. gm can do that but not consistently yet.

it's not not like people talking about 20 years ago. >> it's unfair to talk about how american made cars suck. >> absolutely. they don't. not anymore. chrysler still has a lot of work to do. they are doing major turnarounds. they unveiled a whole slew of redesigned products in l.a. that look better than old stuff. gm in particular has learned a lesson how to make cars that you look at and say, i want to get one of those. when you drive it and get inside, it's really more surprising. >> peter knows this because he tries out everything that comes out there. peter has also been tinkering with electric cars and hybrid electric cars. could the future of the auto industry be gasoline free? i recent had the opportunity to drive nissan's new electric car the leaf. in my passenger seat was the ceo of the company. is this a big stretch at this point for the average car buyer to get into this? >> no. >> what's the -- >> it's not going to be a big

stretch. i think first people would like to know what an electric car looks like. how does it feel to drive it. what kind of, you know - what is the interface with electric car. how do i charge it. it is complicated. >> the only difference between this and a normal inductive car is the charging, from a driver's perspective. that's the difference. >> the big difference between this and a combustion engine. first the charger, the electricity. a lot of things. there's no nose, no vibration, no smell. there is no gasoline. no gasoline. there is no exhaust pipe. there is no reservoir. so there are a lot of changes for the driver. >> right out of the gate there are two cars people think of as electric cars. there's this and the chevy volt. you seem to think there's a distinct difference here because you walked me around the car and showed me no muffler.

>> there is no exhaust pipe in this car so this car uses gasoline for nothing. we tend to say an electric car is a car that does not use gasoline. no exhaust pipe, no ejection. no emission of any sort. any car using gasoline is automatically a hybrid of some sort. you can have a motor and engine. you can say the engine is not used to move the car but used to charge the battery but you still use the battery and the objective for us -- obviously we have hybrids. this is not about hybrid. this is about having technology and having a car which is totally neutral in term of emission to the environment. >> ultimately how big a role will electric cars play not just in nissan but in the automobile industry? >> my projection is that 10 years down the road 2020, 10% of the global car market will be made by electric cars.

>> i have to tell you, i loved that car. peter, you have compared it to the volt. the difference is the volt, when you ran out of battery charge, an electric gasoline engine kicks in. this one you have to work around charging stations. >> right. that is a big difference. it makes a difference in how the car peels but more importantly it makes a difference if how people feel about the car and driving it. i think a car like the leaf is going to have a little more of a challenge. i think initially it's going to sell better with the people who really want to help the environment. you're making a full commitment. >> how does it feel? that's a big reservation some people have, it's going to feel like you're driving an electric car. >> peter said it clearly, it doesn't feel like you're driving an experiment. >> feels like you're driving a real compact car. i found it fun. >> i enjoyed it too. this is an exciting time for us that we have the introduction of mostly electric cars. your kids will look back on this

yaer and wonder you guys were talking about whether you thought it was really going to work. thank you. good to see you. we've barely come out of the last financial crisis, but could another be around the corner? it's a question people are asking. we'll talk about it next. but first how prepared are you for retirement? christine has this week's mastering your money. >> joining us me now is john bogle. "don't count on it." welcome to the program. are americans prepared for retirement? what is the one thing they can do today to get back on track if they don't think they are. >> very few americans are well prepared for retirement. the way to do it is start early. people forget that. invest more than you think you need to invest, month after month after month. start early and invest regularly is the best way to get prepared for retirement. make adequate contributions and

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we're probably far away from the financial crisis of 2008 to look back and try and figure out what happened, what went wrong and how it doesn't happen again. lately on the show we focused on movies and books helping to bring some of the complex causes of financial crisis into focus for people who haven't been following it as closely. i've got another one for you. this is a must read. bethany mclean is here, "all the devils are here." these two have dug into what caused this financial crisis and whether it can happen again. bethany wrote an article about the coming collapse of enron. she blew the whistle on that early. you're familiar with trying to get to the bottom of complicated things. i read your book. is the cause of what we went through pure old-fashioned greed? is it the fact there hasn't been enough regulation of the

financial industry? or is it just a basic thing about how you used to go to your bank to get a mortgage, they knew who you were and now that's not the case. >> all of the above. i think one of the things that's happened in the wake of the financial crisis, we've been looking for a villain. the debate is very polarized. sometimes along political lines and polarized, sometimes along political lines, sometimes along, oh, those greedy jerks who wrecked our political system. and we titled the book "all the devils are here" in an attempt to get at the complexity of this. it spans many decades and a whole cast of characters. >> it's a little weird in that some of the obvious villains are less villainous in your book and there are less obvious villains who might have been trying to get home ownership to more people and tried to keep mortgages accessible to more people and may have ended up really messing the system up. >> one of the constant stories of wall street is good things taken to a extreme that then become very bad things. and the whole notion of creating securities out of mortgages started with a great idea,

really simple idealistic concept let's find a way to get more capital to american homeowners. what's wrong with that? and it became over the decades a very dangerous thing, and the story we tell is that story. >> one of the everyoimpetus behe securitization of mortgages, all these baby boomers. there was a sense there wouldn't be enough money to lend them, so how do we create more money for more loans? >> and what nobody saw is that two things would happen, in that housing would become the investment of choice in a low of super-low mortgages. and this mechanism called securitization would sever the link between the borrower and the lender, such that there was no relationship anymore, and the lender didn't have to care if the borrower could pay back the loan. >> so securitization in simple form was, you take a bunch of these mortgages and sell them to somebody else and they parse them out and sell them as bonds. so the person actually holding that loan in the end has no relationship to the owner. >> absolutely. and one more ingredient in that,

the person holding the loan at the end can think the they're getting something very safe without having done any of the underlying work, because this whole mechanism depended on the good housekeeping seal of approval stamped on them by the rating agency. >> let's talk about whether this could happen again. this is the biggest concern. could this financial collapse, the likes of which we haven't seen since the great depression, happen again. take a look at this poll, from cnn opinion research corporation, 63% of americans say yes. 36% say no. which group is right? >> here's the optimistic way to look at this. the expected never happens. so the fact that people think it's going to happen may mean it won't. the for a less optimistic way to look at this is that the story of the crisis is a story of a society living beyond its means. it's a story of a debt-fueled binge, in the united states, but also around the world. and we are not out of that yet. >> a debt-fueled binge means we're all participants in this, those of us who liked buying houses that went up at a very low interest rate. what happens to us if the thing changes? what will our future look like

if we don't have a debt-fueled economy? >> it is so hard to say. i think we are facing a more austere future, under any scenario you can imagine. what i hope is that we make hard decisions now, so that we make choices rather than having choices foisted upon us. >> that's, i think, the big decision. matthew mclean, thanks very much, bethany is the co-author of "all the devils are here," a contributing editor to "vanity fair." thousands of dollars in credit card are bogging you down. how to be debt free in a few short years after this. ♪

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$13,000 in credit card debt may not sound like a lot. it is. and it's not that uncommon. >> no, and ali, you've got to get out of that credit card debt. here's the deal, $13,000 takes an awful lot of time to dig out from under, and you need to make a deal with yourself to get out of that kind of debt in just three to five years. you cannot invest in your future until you've paid off the past. credit counselor david flores showed me how to do it. you're on the ropes, right? >> mm-hmm. >> you've got renter mortgage, you've got a car loan, groceries, got a student loan, and you can't afford -- you just lost a job.

how do you prioritize the basics, even? student loan, you get a deferment? >> yes, i was going to say, you want to take a look at this and say, well, where is there assistance? student loan companies typically will help with hardships -- >> they usually have lower interest rates too, right? >> they do. they usually do. but, yes, so putting these into deferment or forbearance can help. so you're eliminating this, even if it's temporary. >> got to get tough on the groceries and tighten up. >> on the rent or mortgage, long-term, is your situation going to -- do you see it changing? >> you might need to downsize? >> yes. and this is the hardest part. a lot of times when it comes to rent, downsizing on an apartment, people don't want to do that, but sometimes it needs to be done if their situation is a long-term situation, not a short-term. >> i think bottom line, $13,000 in caredit card debt at 29% interest, the it would take 35 years to pay off. most people don't know that. they just don't know it. that's a lifetime.

>> right. so if you can afford to make the minimum payment, where you can pay off your debt sooner, great. but you can't afford to pay the minimum payment, that interest rate, 30%, that's a lot. seeking credit counseling will help to try to get those payments manageable, get that interest rate down to maybe a 10% interest, a 6% interest rate. something manageable so that you can pay off that debt without shelling out, you know, a ton of extra money. >> right. seeking credit counseling, nonprofit credit counselors. states have specific rules for how much you end up having to pay to have somebody help you get out of debt, be careful of those agencies and ads you can see. anybody who tells you can get out of debt quickly and easily and for free is lying to you. david flores says one of the toughest parts digging out of debt is how to get started, realizing what the number is. what is the number? and when i was writing my book, i found so many people just put the bills in the top drawer, didn't want to face what that number is, but you've got to know what that number is and