we're doing this is great confidence in you and you've always been fair. you ask some tough questions over the years but it was always from the heart, straight, no curveballs. and we respect you and love you and that's why we wanted to visit. we don't do this kind of thing anymore. >> larry: i thank you. the bushes in houston. good evening. i'm kathleen parker. >> i'm eliot spitzer erroll southers joins us. he does not like the way things are being done right now. i'm talking about those body scans. >> newt gingrich's daughter will be with us too. she's a chip off the old block in certain respects. you'll want to hear what she has to say.

we're here nonstop about the body scanners. it's important to remember they're just a distraction. the real issue, folks, we're losing because the terrorists are playing puppet master and we're the puppet. the terror group behind the failed parcel bomb al qaeda in the abian peninsula posted an online article in which they basically mock us. they call what they're doing operation hemorrhage. what is that? it's really a simple strategy. employ low cost operations against america and get us to throw huge sums of money at the problem. we bleed money and that's why they call it operation hemorrhage. for example, that parcel bomb attack aimed at the jewish synagogues but intercepted in britain and dubai cost the bad guys $4,200. but the security measures we put in place to protect against the attacks billions of dollars and counting. >> and the language they use is striking and frankly disturbing. this group suggests the failed terror attempt was actually quite successful because quote it will without a doubt cost america and other western countries billions of dollars in new security measures.

that is what we call leverage. what do they mean by leverage? let's take a look again at that parcel bomb attempt. here's the breakdown of the cost. two phones for $300. two printers for $600 and $3300 in shipping, transportation and other cost is. a grand total of 42 hundred dollars. how much do we spend to prevent terror attempts like this? this past year one billion on airport security just this year. since 9/11 more than $40 billion on aviation security. >> to talk more about the response to the terrorism plots and airport security with tonight's headliner. joining us from los angeles the man president obama initially wanted to head the transportation security administration but whose nomination was blocked for months and ultimately withdrawn, erroll southers has a different take on the threats we face and how to deal with them. thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> you've seen some of these

really out of -- just over the top inspections that have resulted in some really humiliating experiences for some people. if you were in this job right now, what would you do? >> well, the first thing i would do is explain to the american public why we've had to resort to this level of screening, why we have to touch people, why these pat-downs are necessary. the other thing that i would do is training. we always talk about israel. i spent a lot of time there. the folks there that are trained, they understand they have to look at people's behaviors. you shouldn't automatically be subject to the pat-down because you're the fifth in line. however, i do understand after looking at the tsa blog that there are certain things that subject you to advanced imaging or a pat-down but the pat-downs seem to be a stretch. again, inasmuch as our international partners haven't adopted this policy i have to wonder what kind of threats are we facing to go to this level. they are intrusive. by the admission of the administrator they are intrusive.

i don't know that he'll have to change it or back it off. it's something i haven't been subjected to but don't look forward to it. >> i don't want to raise the specter of politics when we talk about a serious issue like this. we didn't give our listening audience your entire resume but you are the real deal. fbi, terrorism expert, consulted around the world in the most important airlines in this nation. you were nominated to be head of the tsa? what happened? >> i think it's very unfortunate when people politicize the safety and security of the american public and that's what happened. however, you can see that i'm still doing the things that i did before. i want to believe i'm part of the solution. i'm dedicated to the safety and security of this country and the world and politics be damned, i have a job to do and i think that everybody in the country at the end of the day wants the same thing, which is a safe and secure transportation system. >> i keep coming back to this

idea that we've got these machines set up, these x-rays and advanced body scans. but you've only got them in -- i don't remember what number -- what is it 40 airports or something? then all these others, hundreds that don't have them. how effective is that really to have just a few of the machines in place? if it's so important to our security why not have them everywhere? >> that's a very valid question. i have to tell you i've traveled a number of times in the last several weeks. i've not been subjected to advanced imaging technology and i'd like to. i've not been subjected to the pat-downs. i would think that your question is extremely valid and makes sense. why not have them at all of the airports if they are doing what they propose to do, which is reduce the threat or opportunity of an abdul mutallab type device attached to a body and getting through screening. >> the question could be asked how many weapons or terrorist

plots have been foiled because of these machines? in other words, is there a count -- i'm sure there is a count somewhere that says, look, there are 55 suspicious people whom we have caught because they tried to go through a screening machine and we found them holding x, y or z material we thought was dangerous. is that number a meaningful number or close to zero? >> i don't know what that number is and i don't know if it's publicly available. but i want to reiterate if we find a bomb at the airport that's one of the last lines of defense. we have to back these security circles, these security circumferences away from the airport, find out who these people are who might be trying to get these devices on board. like i said earlier, if someone is intent on getting a device on board, there is technology and bombmakers in the middle east that every time we come up with a technology for detection, they're coming up with a new device or new compound to get it through. >> but how about the cargo? how about all the fedex packages and the mail that make their way on to passenger planes and others? so much that isn't scanned. or what percentage of that is scanned, is examined to prevent the sort of bomb efforts that almost detonated just a couple

of weeks ago? >> well, i believe that there's 100% scanned cargo that goes into passenger planes. but let's understand something. the counterterrorism business is a risk/management proposition. and the situation is such that the united states public doesn't understand that we can never reduce the risk to 1 hundred%. we are quickly approaching a zero tolerance for anything in america in the way of a thwarted plot. cargo is going to be screened. if we were to screen cargo to the level that's probably 100%, it would so shut down the supply chain -- as you mentioned at the top of the hour -- the direct economic costs would be catastrophic. so they have to screen ar cargo based on risk or packages coming from a point of origin that deserve greater scrutiny. those cargos then are properly taken care of and the other cargo not at that level of risk can pass through more quickly

and efficiently and the system can stay open and work better. >> sounds like what you're saying when we push back farther in the supply chain if you can think of it that way, any package out of yemen or somalia where we know we have a very large or where al qaeda has relocated, those are the packages where our security system needs to be doubled, tripled. we need to be intense and that's where the resources should be. >> absolutely. let's not kid ourselves. al qaeda a non-state-sponsored adverse rif is looking for a home and opponent that's been around over two decades. they're adaptive. they're resilient. they're quickly gaining a foothold in yemen. we certainly have to look at packages from that region a lot more closely than we do other packages from around the world. >> mr. southers, i just want to thank you for your many years of law enforcement and doing what you've done over the many years to keep us safe both in the air and elsewhere. >> thank you. i'd like to thank the men and

women around the world that are doing the same thing. >> we share those views. >> erroll southers, thank you so much for a fascinating conversation. in few moments a dramatic scenario in which president obama could regain his lost popularity. we'll be right back. >> who should be fired from the white house? >> everybody. certainly he needs a new press officer. he needs -- axelrod, nice fellow, not done the job. fine for campaigning opinion let me tell you about a very important phone call i made.

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three weeks since the midterm elections, kathd loon and we still don't know what the president has in store, what his agenda is going to be, what he plan for the economy, how he's going to deal with republicans on anything from taxes to the rest of the domestic agenda. >> where is president obama? here to discuss that and a number of other issues journalist and historian simon schama.

let's start with the president. where has he been? >> i don't know. it's the danger of the midterm making the turkey. this is very serious. you can see why he may not have wanted to spill blood if there are going to be changes. please, should there not be changes in the white house communications, wherever you look you would think there would be a startling shift of course. but you don't want to do it too soon because it looks like panic. on the other hand, of course, by having the scheduled foreign trips you risk the possibility of the american public saying he cares more about the g-20, he cares more about them foreigners than he does about the sinking shim of the united states. so now or soon after turkey time as he possibly can, he has to really make a very strong imprint on an extremely fluid political situation or he's well cooked. >> the worst thing about the trips is they seem to have been failures. whether or not they were in actuality, certainly the asia trip he went 0 for 3. no treaty with korea.

the currency move didn't go anywhere. the qe-2 thing. >> the dinner party. >> the bush standard. >> that's setting it very low. >> doesn't he need to find an agenda? we don't know what he stands for or where he's' going? >> he does. he can't drift. if the problem is help it all went as we say in britain pear shaped do i move to the center. no move to the center. if he imagines this he's in self destruct mode. he needs to say, hello, america, you do have a president. i'm in control. there are a number of incredibly important things. if we do what the republicans want us to do, we raise the deficit. you've told me you're all concerned about the deficit by $4 trillion. if we do what the republicans say we should do, not sign on to a s.t.a.r.t. treaty, we have no control over nuclear materiel that could be from here to kazakhstan.

he could take center right and say we must get a grip on it or is the most important thing that america stops until i'm defeated. he has lots of cards to play. he needs to play them soon. >> as a political matter isn't he in a position really to put the republicans on the defensive and say, look, they're getting in the way of national security with blocking the russian treaty and they are the ones who are going to cause us to grow our deficit even more? >> yes. >> so why doesn't he do it? >> well, let's wait until merry christmas. if he doesn't do it by then then something is even more seriously amiss. >> who should be fired from the white house? >> everybody basically. >> clean slate. >> certainly he needs a new press officer. he needs -- axelrod, nice fellow. not done the job. fine for campaigning. >> why are you giving him till the middle of december? every day that goes by with this

vacuum -- this vacuum is -- >> you and i would do it tomorrow. i would do it tomorrow. it's true i would do it before thanksgiving. >> back to the tax cuts. you were eloquent saying it drives up the deficit. we have had muddled messages. they've said ten different things about it. what do you think they want to do and what should they do and where is the line in the sand? >> i think what they think is going to happen if they actually get their way at all is that there will be a two year extension for all classes of taxpayers but not make the tax cuts permanent. the tax cuts again tell the american people the story simply. the back story without moaning about what the bush years did, nonetheless converted -- bill clinton was very accomplished during the campaign -- converted a massive surplus into a deficit. big problem. you say out there, americans, i hear you. all you tea party say we are imposing this gigantic deficit

on our children, our grandchildren forever. fine. then actually we shouldn't really be perpetuating these tax cuts at all but we're in a tough place. i recognize that small businesses and the american economy needs a certain amount of stimulus. but why make it a $4 trillion extra hit on american posterity? how hard is that to say? >> it is mystifying to me he hasn't stood up, given a speech with a chalkboard, using that chart of the jobs lost, the jobs now created under him, the deficit impact. you should give a tutorial. it would be a little weongy but with passion. >> no, no. i don't think obama can do that because he has already been labeled too professorial. if he gets up there with a chalkboard. >> play to the caricature. he's not going to go up there and give a stem winder on these issues. he has to explain it. they haven't done it in two years. he could do it. the case is there to be made but

he hasn't put his full force and full throated energy behind it. that's why i wait for them to draw a line in the sand. >> they have to basically -- it's fine -- the american public always say don't like partisan bickering, don't want to hear the noise. but at some point when the country is still suffering, doesn't need to be a screaming rant. we've got plenty of that actually on the radio airwaves. but they do need to feel there is someone who is passionate enough to defend the principles he believes in, who is in and who is upset and his distress and is nearly arrogant or wetly contrite. it's this horrible uriah heap kind of dripping hand forgive me for i have sinned stuff that actually turns people's stomach. and out there in america are millions of americans, everybody, who do not want to be told by the tea party that their view of government is the only true american view. come in, franklin roosevelt. >> can we give you david axelrod's phone number and you can call him and explain it? >> i would love it.

i mean it's -- it's not that hard. he has all these cards to play. as you say kathleen in the months that come up -- he can't be too patient. god knows he's tried patience really. what america needs now is as if it's the incoming months of his government. it needs energy. it needs a sense actually of tenacious resolution. that's an american thing. people want -- the plumbing imploded. there is water all over the house. they ought to wait till thursday after thanksgiving to mop the sucker up. >> except that we do kind of go into this state during this time of year where maybe it's turkey induced but we don't want to seem to want to do a lot the rest of the year. >> if it's all about shopping that's really not why anyone elected obama to have a shop, to listen to frank sinatra. life for right now for millions of americans ain't so wonderful. >> it's worse than that because when you saw how he was dealt

with over in asia and understood china is now collecting our interest payments and beginning to rule the world, their economy booming, importing everything. every day that goes by costs us something. so there's an urgency to it that you do not get a sense of in this white house right now. >> absolutely. has very little respect in the international community right now. that is a further problem. >> can we switch gears because the big news is the tsa, the body scans, the pat-downs. when you say people don't want the tea party telling us what kind of government it seems. they don't want this kinds of government. >> is the problem that it's the pat-down government? i don't get it really. the problem is actually -- much of me -- i'm a bit like the tin men. constituted of various metal parts. i'm constantly palleted. i'm disturbed actually if hands aren't all over me. i've been patted down from omaha to miami. and i don't really care. i understand people might.

i think the issue is a combination of incompetence and intrusiveness. >> i'm with you but i think it's contrary. i think this is overwrought by media desperate for issues. 85% of the flying public says we understand. >> i don't know. ask them after they stand in line. >> i've stood in line. there is a vocal minority that's upset. my answer is you have to understand -- i think it's misguided and the security dollars should go somewhere else but this isn't so intrusive. there are threats. airplanes as bombs are bad things as those of us in new york on 9/11 understand. this is the world. we have to go after the terrorists. this is one of the arrows in the quiver and we have to grow up and get used to it. >> there is the train. >> simon schama, thanks so much for being with us. >> pleasure to sound off as usual. >> more on my favorite subject sarah palin, why her friends are turning on her while her enemies call her a winner. >> winner or whiner? we'll be right back.

>> you don't know what's in a person's heart based on the way they look. you don't know what their intentions are. but you can check their underwear. and so i guess -- >> deep thoughts. >> as much as it's an inconvenience or an embarrassment for many, it doesn't seem completely unreasonable, given the danger. s reach the peak of perfection. the vegetables do. at green giant, we pick vegetables only when they're perfect. then freeze them fast so they're are as nutritious as fresh. [ green giant ] ho ho ho. ♪ green giant

welcome to our political party. let's meet tonight's guests. we have john avlon, a senior political correspondent for the daley beast.com and elise jordan former speechwriter for condoleezza rice. and jackie gingrich cushman. syndicated and author of "the essential american" and max

kellerman who is a boxing analyst for hbo sports. welcome to everyone about. >> first question body scans and pat-downs. i have to admit i'm not looking forward to going home thanksgiving. in fact, i may just skip it. >> that was true even before that. >> excuse. no, just teasing. anybody had that experience? any pat-downs, close-up x-rays? >> i had the x-ray. >> how was it sm. >> you stand there and get a little dose of radiation and now your image is on file. >> any giggling in the background? >> no, thank god. you think you don't know what's in a person's heart based on the way they look. you don't know what their intentions are but you can check their underwear. and so i guess -- >> deep thoughts. >> as much as it's an inconvenience or embarrassment for many, it doesn't seem completely unreasonable given the danger. >> i think there has to be some

-- i'll give au for instance. i traveled six times in the last few days and i haven't been patted down but my brother-in-law was when he recently came to atlanta. his challenge was not only pat him down but stepped aside and he couldn't see his belongings. you wonder about the procedures to make sure they have the right person and everything stays together because not only is it not secure, right? someone could have grabbed his belongings and taken them. you have to make sure the whole thing is thought through. >> does anybody else have objection to these -- these are intimate pat-downs. they're touching people in places where one should need an invitation or at least a dinner. >> great idea. >> hold on. >> i think it's part of the training. you have to make sure you understand what you're doing when you do it. you don't want to have something that's inappropriate. >> it has been in some cases. >> it is but it's necessary. >> why do guys like this? guys do not mind this? >> i do wonder though what are the costs here?

these machines they have, i've traveled a bunch. only been through one. it's an awkward machine. your arms are up. you have to stay in place for eight seconds. this is without the pat-down. i wonder when they were making the order for this to be the new standard who was thinking what? because it is not the most ease-free. obviously safety comes first but these are cumbersome machines. add to that i think a little partisan anger at the tsa fueling this fire, people are getting furious before thanksgiving. >> the machine is easier than getting patted completely so i would prefer the machine. the only time i've been patted patted would be delhi airport heading into kabul and by a female, couldn't be happier to have that full pat because i know that everybody on that flight is also having that. >> that's a good point. don't you feel the kinds of more inconvenienced you are the safer you have feel? >> not really. >> it was into kabul. terrorists were going into afghanistan. usually they're trying to come here.

we're not going to -- but here's the difference -- >> in a way that's respectful. what we've been reading are several hundred examples that are not respectful. i've had -- i've been patted down but not in the way that they're talking about doing now. >> the sad truth is it will become something that we get used to and we'll move beyond it. >> i'm never going to get used to being felt up at an airport. >> i'm thinking nuns should get an exemption. just throwing that out there. >> what about muslim women who have the -- who wear the head dress and the robes? because out of modesty -- the issue is modesty for them. so are they going to be exempt? of course not. but how do you think they feel? >> enough of the search stuff. >> no. >> here's something that really does bother me. we got the republican party saying you must extend the tax break for people who are making

zillions of dollars, but we don't have enough money to continue and extend unemployment insurance for people who are running out of money, looking for work and can't pay for food. is there something wrong with that picture fundamentally? >> yeah. and i will step in here. i know this is a great way to truly think about it. i think what's wrong with that picture it's too narrow. the question if you think about it what it goes to is can we tax enough so we can give people enough money for unemployment. the answer is no. what those people really want are jobs, what you said. people want jobs. they want to go to work. they want to have a paycheck. i think what we need to think about is what creates jobs. i'll tell you what. stability in the economic environment, lower taxes, incentives and then people can get the jobs they need. in the meantime i would say we need to go to training and transition education. >> i appreciate the larger point but i think the point elliot is making. there's a choice. at the same time saying when it comes to actually extending unemployment benefits when we've got unemployment that runs 10% or higher there's not the money to do that. that's a policy choice, it's not

about economic philosophy and republicans have a problem there. what happened to compassionate conservatism. >> it's an article of faith on the right i think that tax cuts are good for growth. whether or not there's necessarily evidence for it. and that just in terms of branding is an easier thing to sell than unemployment benefits to the -- easier thing to sell to the working class who is the largest block of voters. unemployment benefits, the real argument against it is it's a disincentive to work but we're not dealing here with an environment where there are more jobs than there are people in the workforce. it's quite the opposite. so incentive doesn't seem to be the issue at the moment. >> let me give you an example. i work with a nonprofit in atlanta genesis new life. they work with homeless and new babies. people that don't have jobs. what they do is bring them in and train them. they help them get a job. then they work.

this is a program that is successful, that create jobs. my point is we need to look not at policy but actually works in the workplace. my background is in finance and let me tell you what works in corporate is to spend money. >> john's point is critical. we're not talking about a theoretical issue. a real moment right now. there are no jobs. people are running out of money. they can't make mortgage payments, pay for their kids' food. don't we have it within ourselves to say, yes, we will help you at this moment? >> wouldn't that be the most stimulative thing to do? >> i think you have to back up and say what is the problem. i understand it's a short term problem and i think we solve that with training and education. >> we're for that too. >> i don't think if you think about the long term prognosis we've had this problem for years. you can't tax people enough to give other people unemployment benefits. it doesn't work. >> also unemployment benefits 99

weeks. that's nearly two years of unemployment. it's essentially another entitlement program. we have welfare. we have other programs that we can transition -- >> cuff look in the eyes of people going out every day looking for work? >> i have plenty of sympathy. i'm a free lance journalist. >> so the end of 99 weeks you're going to tell them we're cutting you off and that guy buying his third yacht gets a tax break? >> we have other forms of entitlement -- >> the tax cut can be seen as an entitlement in the sense it wasn't paid for -- >> taxes are just going to be -- politicians do not put that money -- they're just going to spend it. >> the argument at the time was at least in the 2000 election, the argument was gore lost partly because he said lockbox. and bush said it's your money, we want to give it back. gore said that's the most optimistic perception. we need to save this for social security. bush said we can give it back to you and the money is gone and social security is still in

trouble and now you want to extend the tax cuts. >> welfare reform passed under your father with president clinton is one of the greatst of the past generation. but when you deal with a jobless recovery that we are slowly engaged in with protracted high unemployment, there is an obligation i think to help people who are holding on by their fingernails. that's an important role of government. it is stabilizing for not only the economy but the society and i think that cannot be discounted under the name of philosophy or theology. >> right back with another question for the party. >> the big question we want to know, is your father running for president? >> the good news is he's exactly where he says he is which is he's thinking about it very hard. i'll let you know we had a one-on-one discussion for about two hours and we haven't had a one-on meeting since i had two children. i've been the fairy to bring the grandchildren to him. we talked for a long time. welcome back to the

welcome back to the political party. we have time for one more quick question. jackie has a new book out that's got some of the most famous speeches through time and the most recent was george w. bush in 2001 on the floor of the congress. any other speeches good enough for history that you can think of? >> barack obama philadelphia speech on race. really important speech. >> obama inaugural address because he said at one point -- he said -- he included the nonbelievers along with the jews and christians and muslims and jews and hindus and nonbelievers. and we live in a republic where the sovereignty is with the people -- where the minority is protected from the tyranny of the majority. as an atheist i felt for the first time even when it's not politically helpful necessarily for someone to say that in that position he was talking to me. >> i'll throw one out that will come as a surprise probably but mitt romney gave a fabulous speech on religion speaking to

your -- and he made room for atheists. -- >> president kennedy's speech on religion. >> we include his inaugural address which is a great speech. i think everyone would agree with that. >> i would include a speech that hasn't received much notice. it's kind of below the radar but president bush in prague in 2007 it was a speech before democracy, freedom promotion and the power of human conscious. >> did you write it? >> no. >> attacking yale boy's speeches. >> great speeches motivate and elevate and it's great. >> big question, the one we really want to know, is your father running for president? >> the good news is he's exactly where he says he is which is he's thinking about it very hard. we had a one-on-one discussion for about two hours and we haven't had a one-on meeting since i had two children. since then i've been kind of the

fairy to bring the grandchildren to him. we talked for a long time. he's very serious. he's given his life i think to the service of this country. he's had great achievements. he's worked very hard. he's overcome a lot of -- i think we'll see. i think he doesn't know yet. i think he'll decide -- it's a real long answer. i think he'll decide like he said february or march. he's very concerned where we're heading and he wants to make sure he does the best that he can for my two children. for that i'm appreciative to him. >> good grandfather. >> yes, he is. >> thank you so much for being with us tonight. >> thanks, everybody. stay with us. china seems to be newly assertive, staring us down on currency, staring us down on trade, militarily getting more aggressive. driven by aggressive chinese politics or flexing muscles? how do we understand? >> they're much bigger and continuing to grow. internally they look at the world and they see it as the

west is weaker.

time for "fun with politics." over the weekend both the liberal "new york times" and the conservative weekly standard weighed in on sarah palin. here's what they had to say but first the negative. karl rove suggests the american people might expect a certain level of gravitas in someone considering running for president and that starring in your own reality tv show might not be the ticket. after speaking to nearly two dozen tea party activists who universally adore her others have reservations about. >> let's take a look at the other side of the coin. this from another major publication. quote, these insults just play into palin's hands burnishing her image as an exemplar of america. the last thing she wants or needs is gravitas. there's little reason to believe now she cannot dance to the top of the republican ticket when and if she wants to. >> here's the surprise.

guess which publication wrote which piece. no, that's not a misprint. the conservative weekly standard, the ones that put sarah on the map when they urged john mccain to make her his running mate are ready to toss her under the campaign bus. guess who is taking her seriously. >> frank rich of "the times" isn't a palin booster. he's sounding the alarm. he tells us reagan and bush were also underestimated. before we laugh her off we better take palin and her chances seriously or else take a look what could happen to us. >> you're leaning over the boat. and if that fish decides -- because it's almost as big as you are. if it decides, no, it's going to fight you till the ends you're going to go over before it comes up and over. >> good job, guys. >> i love it. >> i wasn't going to hesitate either especially when the fish were piling up and they're slapping around. they could do some damage here. we need to calm these boys down real quick.

>> oh, my god! oh, my god! that's one grizzly momma. coming up, from russia with love, vladimir putin has a new cause. we'll tell you all about it. >> vladimir putin has convened a conference in st. petersburg with the goal of saving the world's endangered tiger population. >> that vlad loves tigers. was given a cub for his 56th birthday.

last month president obama traveled to five countries from south korea to portugal. the question now being asked is whether that's a fury driving formulations or a series of individual transactions with regional powers. joining me in the arena ian bremmer president of the u racha group and author of "the end of the free market who wins the war."

the question is, is there a foreign policy or merely a series of discreet transactions and does it matter? >> there's no doctrine. despite a nobel prize and despite incredibly articulate articulation of u.s. policy country by country there's no overarching vision for what the u.s. wants its role in a very rapidly evolving world to be. i think it does matter and it matters because your constituents, whether dples particular or international, they can't -- they can only digest sort of a couple of messages. they can't digest 30. so if you're hitting them scatter shot they're not really getting what you're doing. >> there doesn't seem to be a coherence to it. what is it we want of the middle east peace process beyond just peace. who gets what and why? why are we containing china or not? is it trade or jobs? the pieces don't seem to fit together. why are we in afghanistan when

terrorism is somewhere else? i don't understand what we're doing and why. and as a constituent, it makes it harder to support it. >> do we want to be and to what degree the world's policeman? what is our view in how the u.s. dollar is the world's reserve currency is evolving over time? how committed are we to a u.s./china strategic -- >> you immediately came back to china so let's start there in terms of a quick trip around the world. china seems to be newly assertive staring us down on currency and trade. militarily getting more aggressive? driven by domestic chinese politics or flexing muscles? >> they're much bigger and continuing to grow and internally they look at the world and they see it as the west is weaker. they won't be able to rely on the west as much. they respond in two ways. if you're a member of the chinese military, you say aha, here's a chance to prod. let's see how strong the americans are in japan and south

korea. let's see if juicy fruit shakes off the tree as we roughly the branches. on the economic side you say, wow, we can't rely on the american economy, the american consumer, the american strength of the treasury the way we used to. we need to decouple away from it to hedge bi-it's hard to do it in the near term if. >> what taer doing is buying up resources around the world. you speak to people either in leadership positions or africa. they're buying up the natural resources all over africa. they're disengaging at a certain level from the north american economy. >> that's right. they certainly understand when the united states engages in $600 billion of quantitative easing or turning on the printing presses that the exposure the chinese have to all of these u.s. treasuries is a less wise bet over time. where do they want to go? they want to invest in hard economies like africa, southeast asia, latin america and diversify -- >> so longer term how does this

relationship with china evolve? what should the president be doing? going to war at the wto bringing a trade battle to the world trade organization or is there another mechanism that he has? >> using currency is not very bright. that basically means that the united states is saying, look, if you don't move your currency we're going to hit ourselves in the face really hard. it's credible but not effective. what the u.s. needs to do is focus on leverage where they have it which is much more strategic. in this regard, you go to india. you go to japan. you go to south korea. you go to indonesia. interesting. the four largest democracies in asia, the places that most want to leverage and hedge against -- >> so you can almost see the president's asia trip as building a border around china saying to the chinese government we'll recreate the alliance we used to have built of necessity but now will be built on fear of you have, the chinese emering power? >> especially because american allies in asia are desperately asking when you go and travel there. look, we don't want to get

completely sub jegated to a china led economy and architecture but we don't know if the americans will be there in five years. give us some plea that you have staying power. >> let's switch from part of asia to more sort of eastern europe, russia. the s.t.a.r.t. treaty. the president said to the russians i will get the s.t.a.r.t. treaty approved. he's being embarrassed by the republican control -- not control yet but the republican ability to block it. what should happen? is this the first time a treaty like this has been held hostage? >> no, it happens all the time. you had former secretary of state kissinger with a bunch of other conservative realist folks saying this is important, let's get it done. so far lugar is one of the only folks i've seen out there really in front saying let's make sure we get s.t.a.r.t. passed. it looks like jon kyl to come to a compromise. if it doesn't happen now it's clearly going to. >> you think they will -- let's actually listen. the president was making a

major, major push. he had a very powerful statement. let's listen. it's pretty brief. >> without ratification, we put at risk the coalition that we have built to put pressure on iran and the transit routes through russia that we use to equip our troops in afghanistan and without ratification we risk undoing decades of american leadership on nuclear security. >> so you're more bullish than many i've heard. you think it will either happen between now and the end of the year or certainly next year? >> i do, but also i'm not quite as concerned about what happens even if it doesn't. the main reason why the u.s./russia relationship is getting reset is because the russians themselves want to. they feel more geostrategically comfortable, less insecure in their own region they're economically doing better. they no longer have the leverage with some of the gas producers and qatar in iran as the prices went down, the corruptions need to cooperate more with the europeans and americans to start

really diversifying their own economy. the russians have good reason to reach out to the west. still ahead russian prime minister vladimir putin's new pet project would inspire president obama to save the donkey.