john, if the robber could just -- i don't want the ipad. just send the pictures of my daughters back for goodness sakes. the good tip is, you can download apps to track those things. of course, i didn't do that, though, john. next time. >> you'll get that next time. pete, have a good weekend. thanks. >> reporter: have a good weekend. >> thanks for spending time with us. you have a great weekend, too. "parker-spitzer" starts right now. good evening, i'm kathleen parker. >> i'm eliot spitzer. welcome to the program. coming up, a stunning proposal by lindsey graham, a leading republican senator. he says we should be in afghanistan forever. i mean, forever. send our military men over there and never bring them home. you're not going to believe it when we talk to him. >> you can count on a south carolinian to be provocative. we have a grim job s market. it turns bleaker. does any party have any ideas of bringing jobs into this country?

we'll ask dick durbin. >> it is two quagmires we're facing. afghanistan first. it is an ugly picture of corruption running rampant. karzai taking money from everybody. the good news, the president went over there to visit the troops, always a good thing to do. on the other hand, we've been fighting this war longer an any war in american history. they said we're going it be there at least till 2014. the regime we're propping up is as corrupt as anything the world has seen or known. al qaeda left to go to pakistan. i don't know why we're there. the american people need answers on what's going on over there and what the strategy is. on the job front, the unemployment number today up to 9.8%. it's worse when you look at what's going on in our economy. things are grim, indeed, at never level. >> the jobs report would suggest maybe there was something to the timing of president obama's trip to afghanistan? some of our guests are going to disagree with this and you will maybe publicly disagree but i know you think this is true. it seems to be the fact that the

president ain't there. there's no there there. the republicans said that all along. people who did support him initially are now pulling away. even paul krugman had an editorial in "the new york times" today says he's going out of his way to prove to the people who put him in office -- >> i can't sit here and let you say he hasn't been here. this economy was in a death spiral when he came in. >> just a communication problem. >> no, no, no. i disagree with him on some things. we're stabilized. the patient is in the recovery room but not getting better quickly enough and merely being in the recovery room is not enough. >> i want the president to succeed. he is our president. if he fails, we all fail. the guy has got to lead. there's something missing here. and part of recovery, it's not just the nuts and bolts of job creation. it's the spirit, it's the optimism, it's all of that. >> none of it, however, confronts the reality in a

global economy with technology where it is the jobs have been flowing overseas for 10, 15, 20 years and that crisis is one we have not confronted. >> there's in politician in america who gives a better stump speech than you. let's switch back to the first quags mire we talked about, afghanistan. our headliner tonight. a radical new plan for that troubled situation. joining us from washington, south carolina governor lindsey graham who visited afghanistan a dozen times and has been deeply involved in the conversations about afghanistan. thank you for joining us. >> glad to be with you. >> with the president shoot over to afghanistan today, a number of people are says, why now? you have the tax debate going on, you have the deficit commission coming out. job numbers that are quite frankly abysmal. this is his third trip overseas. what do you make of the timing? is this the right moment for him to do what we believe he should do which is lead the troops but why today? >> i think it's good he went today. i'm for the president going to afghanistan and iraq as much as possible. why today? we're eight days away from the

report by general petraeus evaluating the current strategy. we need to push the karzai government to do more. we need to reassure the karzai government that we're not leavileav leaving in 2011. i'm pleased by the statement by the president that we're going to stay with it and transition in 2014 when the afghans will be in the lead. now is the critical time in afghan politics and security reevaluation for the president to be on the ground, thank the troops during the holiday season and get a firsthand understanding of what's going on from general petraeus. i support him going now. >> what do you imagine, what do you envision that that strategy reappraisal will look like? >> i do believe there are places in afghanistan, kathleen, that have become more secure because the 30,000 additional troops that we could actually begin to withdraw troops next summer. we're going to need a substantial u.s. presence for a long time to come because the

fight is a long way from being over. we should all be focusing on the 2014 date of giving the afghan security forces a chance to develop and mature and let them get into lead, then, so the enemy doesn't think we're leaving in 2011. one thing i put on the table is under the right circumstances it would make sense to me, kathleen, for america to have an air base in the north and south of afghan for inperpetuity because afghan security forces would always have american air power to combat any effort of the taliban to come back and have special forces units assigned to those air bases to make sure afghanistan never goes back into chaos. i'd like to see that on the table. >> to be clear, you're suggesting a permanent u.s. presence in afghanistan? >> something we should consider. we have bases all over the world, air bases in the uae, kuwait, under the right circumstances i think it would really secure the gains we made to have a u.s. presence in

afghanistan. two air bases that would be beneficial to the afghan security forces, only if the afghans want it as a way to make sure this country never goes back into the hands of the taliban. that would be a good way to end the afghan conflict. >> you know, senator, i hear what you're saying and i'm actually startled by it. my recollection is this war was al qaeda and terrorism, not about nation building in afghanistan. you're now suggesting a permanent imperpetuity presence in afghanistan, the most corrupt country, a president who takes bags of cash from iran. what are we doing? al qaeda is in pakistan, somalia, yemen. why are we going to be sending american troops to die, to prop up a corrupt karzai who's been antithetical to what we believe in? >> well, my belief is that we're in afghanistan to protect national security interests of this nation. if you replace karzai, who do you replace him with?

the people to replace him would be the taliban and the taliban would open up afghanistan once again to al qaeda. the only reason they're not in large numbers in afghanistan now is because the troops we have and the afghan army is getting better so we've literally driven them out. i want to keep them out and secure the gains we've had. >> it sounds to me like what you're doing is creating a permanent presence in afghanistan akin to what we have in korea propping up a corrupt regime when al qaeda has already left and we're going to support a puppet regime to take money from other corrupt nations to what end? the enemy is al qaeda. >> the end is securing u.s. national security interests. i'm glad we have troops in korea. >> senator, but senator, the objective here, i always thought, was defeat al qaeda which is the terrorist group. >> no, no, no. >> you're saying that's not the objective? >> the objective for our country is to never be attacked again by

islamic extremists. >> you're now suggesting a dedication of resources that i don't think i've heard from anybody about air bases in afghanistan. >> the people in pakistan would not have to hedge their bets because they know we're not going to leave. people in pakistan would never have to worry about the taliban coming back and doing business with them. iran would know we're not leaving the region. the people in afghanistan would know they would have u.s. support in perpetuity so they could make good decisions and get off the fence and come our way, not the taliban way. they don't want to go back to taliban life. it would be a reassuring thing and it would be a statement received by the enemy. i want the enemy to know afghanistan is never going to be your hiding place again and would help with pakistan to let them know america is not going

to abandon afghanistan and the problems we have right now is people are uncertain about what we're going to do. i want iran to know with certainty that you're not going to develop a nuclear weapon, no matter what it takes we're not going to let you do that. until they get that message the world is getting dangerous by the day. >> you know, senator, i think we all share the ambition that you set forth, but i think you are articulating the most dramatic -- you're laying out a nation building strategy that would dedicate our troops and our dollar and our armed forces to afghanistan and pakistan and to all the neighboring countries as you say in perpetuity and every foreign policy expert we speak to says the world is growing around us, jobs, intellectual property. we're losing our economic base and we are fighting in a country that is known as the graveyard of empires, falling into the worst, most obvious historical trap. you're saying we're going to be there forever? >> no, i'm suggesting we have a relationship are the afghan people that no one's ever had in their history. friends.

we're not the russians. we're in the british empire. we don't want anything they have. we want to make sure the country never falls back into the hands of extremists to protect ourselves. >> senator? >> i can promise you there are plenty of people in afghanistan who would welcome a permanent relationship with the united states because we're not the russians. >> senator, let me just ask a simple question, do you think we're winning in afghanistan? >> i think we're back on the offensive. we're cross -- we're going to play auburn/south carolina are going to play, we're on their side of the field because the 30,000 troops. eliot, if we hadn't put 30,000 troops in place, i don't think we'd ever have a chance to get back on offense, and the question is, how did the taliban come back? they don't have organized army. they don't have an air force. they came back because of poor governance and lack of security. what you call nation building i call an enduring relationship to make sure the afghan security forces always have the edge against the taliban and

generationally we change governance because if you don't provide better governance the taliban takes advantage of it. we're on offense now. i think we can win by 2014. we're training the afghan army and police unlike any time i've seen. i'm encouraged. the culture of corruption is a big hurdle and we're a long way from turning that around. >> i hear you but could not disagree more fundamentally that this is of all the places in the world where we washt want to dedicate troops, dollars -- >> can i ask you one thing? this has been a fun debate. do you think al qaeda would have planned the taattacks of 9/11 i we had air bases in afghanistan? >> the way to go after al qaeda is not by putting military bases in afghanistan. use counterinsurgency and anti-terrorism intelligence and operations we can use to go after al qaeda. you said, senator, it's now in

pakistan and yemen and somalia where we go after them. what would you suggest we do with respect to pakistan which you said was the base from which they were supporting these terrorist attacks? >> what i would do for pakistan is continue to support them militarily, give them aid, but i would put benchmarks and conditions. i would push them hard to get better into the fight along the border and help us, destroy sanctuaries th sanctuaries that exist in pakistan. convince them the extremists on their side of the border is a bigger threat to them than indian. >> lindsey graham, hope you'll come back. >> good discussion. >> we'll be right back. one of the things that baffles me about barack obama is he just seems -- he's such a downer. this is -- he has no -- i would say not as a democrat -- if i were a democrat, this man seems to have no confidence in his own policy, no ability to offer an

inspiring vision, muddle along and maybe things will got so better, my opponents are so unreasonable and it's depressing to be around him. and helps make people safer. then they shared this technology with researchers at wake forest to help reduce head injuries on the football field. so, you know, i can feel a bit better about my son playing football. [ male announcer ] how would you use toyota technology to make a better world? learn how to share your ideas at toyota.com/ideasforgood. t adwiwiout food al t ♪ when it's planes in the sky ♪ ♪ for a chain of supply, that's logistics ♪ ♪ when the parts for the line ♪ ♪ come precisely on time ♪ that's logistics ♪

♪ a continuous link, that is always in sync ♪ ♪ that's logistics ♪ ♪ there will be no more stress ♪ ♪ cause you've called ups, that's logistics ♪ a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. and celebrex is not a narcotic. when it comes to relieving your arthritis pain, you and your doctor need to balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, including celebrex, may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death.

this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods. nsaids, including celebrex, increase the chance of serious skin or allergic reactions or stomach and intestine problems, such as bleeding and ulcers, which can occur without warning and may cause death. patients also taking aspirin and the elderly are at increased risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers. do not take celebrex if you've had an asthma attack, hives, or other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor about your medical history and find an arthritis treatment that works for you. ask your doctor about celebrex. and, go to celebrex.com to learn more about how you can move toward relief. celebrex. for a body in motion.

another day, another economic reality check. unemployment climbed to 9.8%. it is grim out there. >> indeed, kathleen, it is. real unemployment is worse. the crisis is persistent and debilitative. the burning question tonight is, what are we as a country going to go about it? >> and joining us tonight for a frank discussion of real options we have david frumm, the editor in chief of frummforum.com and was a speechwriter, special assistant to george w. bush and veteran democratic strategist bob shrum. let me just stop here and pause a minute and say we are so happy to have the frumm and shrum show that we're thinking of creating a whole new segment for you guys. >> we write dueling columns on theweek.com. >> the topic is jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. where are we going it get some jobs? >> one of the lessons of 2010 is to rediscover the -- we have

been going backwards from april of 2010 until now. they're, again, giving the economy monetary fuel. that is the thing that gets you out of cycles. that is the thing that is going to do it now. we're going to need a lot more of it. the inflation fears that are fanned are so misplaced. >> david, i think many of us who believe you need fiscal policy, monetary policy, on the monetary side with interest rates at zero, how much more can they do? >> you print more -- this is milton friedman's famous -- in the end, helicopter theory. you can announce there's going it be inflation because one of the things you have to do, one of the things you most have to do is the fundamental problems, consumers have so much debt. they're crushed under this debt. they can't start spending again until they're debt free. inflation is a tax on creditors and a way to say, everybody is going to have a debt reduction and everyone who holds cash is going to contribute 3%, 4% of their cash and everybody who owes cash is going to gain a 3%,

4% benefit per year. we'll do that until the debt levels are down. >> not to make this a -- did you think the qe ii idea of the fed basically printing enough money to buy back bonds, was that a good idea? >> that was indispensable and may have to do it again. >> it's not enough basically. >> you are sounding kind of like a democrat. >> david is sort of fair about this and analytical about it. milton friedman who i debated once was certainly not a democrat. certainly not a progressive. he was right about the uses of monetary policy. they call it quantitative easing, you print money, create more liquidkiititliquidkit liqu. the republicans provided bob corker, senator from tennessee and a couple others an incoherence criticism saying we believe in sound money. what i think they really believe

in is stalling the economy as a road back to the white house. >> that is the question i want to ask preside, the republicans spending. they have attacked querks ii, this easing of the monetary policy, your talk about saying enough, enough, enough. the republican party seems to be saying take away the levers of potential job creation. >>er bernanke is not going to listen to the republicans. they are demanding extension of tax cuts. in the end the president is going to have to compromise on the extension of the tax cuts putting it together with extended unemployment compensation. because you can't afford to body slam the economy right now by putting a tax increase on millions and millions of people. >> bob, you're a former democratic strategist, current, too. >> i teach at nyu, now. i don't do this professionally. >> you said democrats should quit beating up on barack obama and i'm sure you read paul

krugman's column today. he said the president seems to be doing everything he can to convince the people who put him in office that they made an embarrassing decision. >> he has a nobel prize not in politics. it has an element of truth in it. the stimulus should have been bigger. it wouldn't have been bigger. it was the biggest possible stimulus you could pass. the last line of his column today, democrats need to look elsewhere for leadership, is a recipe for suicide. look, i've been in campaigns that have done well, campaigns that have fallen short or in the case of gore, a campaign i believe was basically stolen from the guy who won. when you're doing well you're all geniuses. so all of the people around barack obama were geniuses in 2008. when things are tough people think you're second raters. i think things are going to get better. i think we're driving toward a narrative in 2012 where the president will say, i made tough decisions, we're on the right path, america's coming back. >> the problem with president obama is throughout the battles

of the past two years, he always wavered. he seemed weak. he didn't stake out the aggressive position we wanted. he negotiated from strength, negotiate from waeakness, creatd a space for -- he became the status quo and that doomed his first two years. >> what can he do? >> i think the president, the state of the union message is going to be very important. he has to step back, talk about this narrative, where we've come in the last two years, where he wants to go the next two years. every time this guy's back has been against the wall as it was in the campaign he steps up and does an extraordinary job. he is going to inspire the country. i go back to a fundamental point. it was a lot easier for franklin roosevelt to inspire the country in 1936 when the economy was on the up. it was a lot easier for ronald reagan to inspire the country in 1984 when it was no longer at

33% approval when the economy was on the up. you can't write speeches that make people feel better when they don't have a job. >> what is he going to put in as an economic program to begin that turnaround? >> propose things, republicans are going to resist him. do no harm, deal with the bush tax cuts, combine them with senate unemployment compensation, extending some of the other tax cuts. secondly, the fed is going to have to do its part. i think that's going to continue to happen. thirdly, we haven't talked about it. in terms of deficit reduction commission, he's going to have to come up with a program for long-term deficit reduction that doesn't make the choice of beginning deep cuts too soon next fall which could undo this recovery. >> i agree with you. here's the problem. the tax cuts are really not cuts. that is continuation of current rates. that's not going to change anything. the feds has been dumping money in as it should. the deficit is counter-stimulative. >> the fed doing this is gradually improving the situation. i think if you had a tax

increase right now on this, especially on the middle class, who tend to consume, you cut off unemployment compensation, this economy would be in terrible shape. >> i don't think it's going to have a net bump -- >> it's getting better. i don't think you can take today's numbers and jump off the cliff. >> here's one of the great ironies. we're doing -- take the long view. two things through the cycle. we are seeing a historic turn in the behavior of americans, saving more and reducing debt. we're putting government, state and local government through a shrinkage. when you look at these job numbers you're seeing the private sectors growing and government is rinken. >> the private sector -- we created 1.2 million new private sector jobs. >> we look back on this in five years, we'll see all the human suffering and the loss of homes, jobs, that will be horrific and it was preventable and tragic. we're going to see this was a moment when the country did

begin to shift to that -- respond to that aging the population by saving more by having a smaller sector, especially the state sector which has been -- the state and local level has grown so out of control under democratic governors -- >> wait, wait, republican governors -- >> we have to wrap. i'm sorry we have to wrap. frumm and shrum. thank you so much for joining us. >> glad to be here. still to come, a senator who made what looks to me like a courageous vote. stick around to meet him. >> we hear about the social tolerance value of diversity. i think at some level being around people who are different from us and have different skills makes us smarter. powerful torque, greater control in the tightest spaces craftsman. trust. in your hands. ♪ i'm gonna get my hair cut ♪ even if i have to cut it myself ♪

♪ i'm gonna get my hair cut ♪ even if i have to cut it myself ♪ ♪ but it makes me out of breath ♪ ♪ when you say ♪ ♪ love is a game -♪ a game for two -[ ring ] ♪ love is a game i want to play with you ♪ [ female announcer ] introducing the dell streak 5 pocket tablet exclusively at dell.com and best buy. ♪ [ female announcer ] the cleaner the counter, the smoother the counter. with bounty you can be confident you'll get your counter clean. in this lab test, one sheet of bounty leaves this surface 3x cleaner than the bargain brand. ♪ big mess? bring it. super absorbent, super durable, super clean. bounty. the clean picker upper. and for huge value, try bounty huge roll. the doctor leaned over and said to me, "you just beat the widow-maker." i was put on an aspirin, and it's part of my regimen now.

[ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. go see your doctor now.

we have the perfect guest for our best ideas segment today. if you think we're wrong, listen to the title of his new book "where new ideas come from: the natural history of innovation." >> you can't listen to any politician or economist tell you about the future these days t l telling us how to get the nation back on track.

it's a pleasure to hasteven her to tell us how to do it. >> you say ideas aren't a single thing but emerge from a chaotic environment. give us an example. >> one great example is where we are tonight in new york city. cities have an incredible track record for generating innovation, right? and whether it's creative innovation, economic innovation, even sometimes the bad kind of innovation, the financial innovation that got us into trouble, if you thought that being creative and being innovative was all about being in a quiet template of space -- >> i tried that. >> -- being away from the crowds, then cities would be terrible at it. it would be the rural areas generating good ideas and cities would be bad at generating good ideas. good ideas and innovation come out of the clash and overlap and to mingling and collaboration that come together when people share space. the birth of the personal computer came out of hobbyists and amateurs working in garages.

there was a group in silicon valley called the home grew computing club, a rag tag bunch of, some scholars and academics and scientists but a bunch of hippies from the late 6 ' '60s, early '70s in san francisco and would share ideas about the new technology. >> you say the enlightenment came from the coffee house. >> it's a place where people who had different backgrounds and hobbies and passions would get together and have long, improvisational conversations. ben franklin used to hang out at this cocktail coffeehouse near st. pauls and sit there five hours with his friends. so it's partially because that space wasn't so -- it wasn't an academic lecture, it wasn't so structured, but it wasn't sitting alone in your study trying to think deep thoughts. >> you said it is where ideas could have sex.

>> exactly. they have to reproduce and get connected to other ideas. >> your book goes beyond saying since we have starbucks we're going to have more ideas and be a more innovative economy. what is the equivalent in today's world of the coffee house? where do ideas mingle, create that environment so there will be the next rapid generation? >> the web is a great model for this. we've seen the greatest pace of innovation in terms of the number of amazing new products that have come out. really happen on the web in the last 10, is0, 15 years. the question is why? the cheap answer is people are innovating on the web because there's a promise of being the next mark zuckerberg. sure, that concentrates the mind and people are incentivized by the money, but i think it's also the very architecture of the web is designed to let people build on top of other people's ideas. the web, itself, is built on top of the internet.

people can build on top of the web and don't have to ask for permission. >> you talked about creating -- you studied different environments including not just the web but coral reefs trying to find out how tie verse life evolves. is there a way to duplicate that so we can create jobs in america? let's get to it. >> part of it is recognizing the innovation power of diversity, itself. so there's a wonderful study at stanford business school who looked at unusually innovative people in the workforce and entrepreneurs and compared their social networks to people who are less innovative. he found people who are unusually innovative had a much more diverse social network in terms of the professions, friends and acquaintances, their professions were different from their own. the argument and the argument of this book is by having conversations with people who, you're an advertising person but you talk to this architect and

think over lunches there's a way you and your clients, architecture practice, i do at work. we hear about the social tolerance value of diversity, but in fact, i think it's about being around people who are different from us, have different skills makes us smarter. >> one other issue you addressed in here was this belief we have all innovation comes from the private sector and you don't think that's correct? >> i think the private sector is a great driver of innovation. that's the fault assumption that it is the only driver of innovation. i tried to do a survey at the end of the book when the looked at innovations across the board and figure out how many came out of government funded research, academic research versus the private sector. they're either equal or non-profit sector actually out-innovates the private sector. when you're in the private sector, while you have financial rewards you also have a desire to keep your inventions secret. and not allow people to build on it or connect to it because you'll give it away and in open

environments people are free to build, borrow, and remix in new was. that makes up for the fact they don't have economic -- >> okay. this is so interesting. very bad is that we have to end it. thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> the book is "where good ideas come from." steving jackson. thanks for being here with us. next the latest on the don't ask, don't tell debate. it's not over yet. we'll be right back. >> how do we get the financial services sector to play a more aggressive role in what we need done here? >> i'd like to see more arm twisting out of the white house. i'll be honest with you. [ male announcer ] this is rachel, a busy mom.

she starts at dawn and so does her back pain. that's two pills foa four hour drive. the drive is done. so it's a day of games and two more pills. the games are over, her pain is back, that's two more pills. and when she's finally home, but hang on,

just two aleve can keep back pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is rachel, who chose aleve and two pills for a day free of pain. ♪ and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels. ♪ now is the time to take action. are you reconsidering your medicare coverage? call unitedhealthcare medicare solutions today. you only have until december 31st to make sure you have the coverage you need. consider a medicare advantage plan. it combines medicare parts a & b, which is your doctor and hospital coverage and may include prescription drug coverage for as low as a $0 monthly premium. you only have until december 31st to enroll. call unitedhealthcare today.

the president's deficit commission today narrowly missed the 14 votes needed to force a congressional vote on the plan. 11 members of the bipartisan commission voted for the proposal to cut the deficit including our next guest. >> joining us tonight is the second most powerful man in the senate democratic senator dick durbin of illinois, assistant majority leader. senator, thank you for joining us. >> good to be with you, eliot. >> thank you. senator, explain to the public. you voted for this deficit commission proposal but

simultaneously said you would vote against it if it was brought to the floor of the united states senate. explain what might appear to be an inconsistency a and what your objective was in doing that. >> i don't think there was a single person voting for it that didn't take exception to some of the provisions. there were a lot of ideas in there. some of those i embrace, many of those i object. i thought it was a vote, as i said at the hearing this morning, on a motion to proceed to balance the budget or at least to bring it closer to balance. i wanted to be on record, yes. thy i think liberals, conservatives, republicans, indpints need to accept the obvious, we can't continue to borrow 40 cents out of $1 we spend. >> you said you voted for it in order to make your statement that you're interested in having this conversation. >> that's right. >> do you feel those who voted against it are not interested in that conversation? >> they'll have to explain their own motives for voting no, but i understand it. many of them were heartfelt.

i had some of my friends on the democratic side, good liberal friends, conservative, progressive friends, you know, like jan schakowsky whom i really value as a close friend who saw it differently and thought this did not go far enough in the direction she w t wanted it to go. if you're serious about the budget deficit, roll up our sleeves and come to the table, both sides if we're going to achieve anything. >> i should pref fis this, but the irony is we're at the same time you struggled to come up with a plan to cut $4 trillion over a decade. we're about to put back in place and extend tax cuts, the impact at which will be to take away $4 trillion revenue. another alternative would be for the president to say, we can't afford this tax cut right now, it hasn't worked as a matter of economic policy, we balance the books that way. why should that not be the way we move forward? >> eliot, we're in a perilous position with this economy.

today's report on unemployment shows that the rate's gone up. we're not out of the woods yet. one of the things i insisted on in this deficit commission, before we hit the deficit brake we're going to wait until january of 2013. i'm not sure we're going to be out of the woods very quickly. i want to make certain we put enough stimulus in this economy to start creating jobs to help small businesses so people start earning wages and paying taxes rather than calling for government services. >> you referenced before the perilous condition of our economy and you're right, with the unemployment number moving certainly in the wrong direction, today, the indicators are not good at all. it seems we're almost at the end of our rope. interest rates are down to zero. the republican majority soon in the house is opposed to any more fiscal stimulus. what levers are going to be left to really push this economy forward? how are we going to begin to get that job engine roaring again? >> one thing, eliot, is the small business credit bill which the president signed into law. i don't believe that's really engaged yet. that has the potential to infuse

up to $300 billion in loans to small businesses across the united states of america. that could be a catalyst that will be very, very positive. >> how do we get the financial services sector to play a more aggressive role in what we need done here? >> i'd like to see a little more arm twisting out of the white house. i'll be honest with you. when you consider what we did with the bailout funds, t.a.r.p. funds and what it did to save financial institutions which made some of the most horrible mistakes in history, the american economy, then they turned around, awarded one another bonuses and cut off the credit spigot for businesses across america. the businesses in this country as well as these financial institutions as we know have been profitable are sitting on a lot of cash and reserves. if they would start investing back in this economy, which i think they should, the president ought to urge them to, it could have a positive impact. >> paul krugman today wrote a column about the president. i'd read a quote to you. "mr. obama seems, almost seems as if he's trying systemically to disappoint his once fervent

supporters to convince the people who put him where he is that they made an embarrassing mistake." what's your reaction? >> i understand it. hear from the left in our democratic party they want the president to be more confrontational. i understand their sentiment. i feel that many times, myself. i also know this president has to step back and look at the overall picture. he has to look at this economy and realize how fragile it is, create jobs and invigorate business. many times that means making concessions with the republicans who still have an important voice in this process and will have bigger voice come january. i know that frustrates our base and frustrates mr. krugman who i respect very much. >> senator, i want to shift gears for a minute to afghanistan. i guess you're familiar with your colleague, senator lindsey graham, proposing building two air bases in afghanistan and keeping our troops there inner.

p in perpetuity on our show. >> i respect lindsay. when it comes to the united states' presence in afghanistan, it's an expensive commitment, $1 million per year for every soldier on the ground. costs us $400 for every gallon of fuel used at afghanistan. we're a nation that is very sensitive to our own debt and deficit and very sensitive to the fact that a lot of the money we're pumping in to afghanistan is being diverted sadly into the hands of corrupt officials turning it around and using it for bullets to shoot at american troops. >> one last question, senator, before we let you go. is it true you kill rats with your bare hands? >> no, that's not true, but it is true i happen to live in one of those glamorous townhouses on capitol hill with senator schumer of new york and george miller of california and yes, we were invaded by rats and yes i set the traps. >> okay. senator dick durbin, thank you for being here. >> thank you two. still ahead if you could give anyone a slap on the wrist

who would it be? our political party will tell us coming right up. >> not happy there's gridlock in washington. when there's gridlock they can't do as much. >> why is that a good thing? >> it's a good thing -- as we've seen for the last two years, instead of getting stuff rammed down your throat somebody should stand up and say no. hostcould i really save you 15% or more car insurance? a bd in the hd worth 2 inhe bush? praiser: well you rarely see them in this good of shape. appraiser: for example the fingers are perfect. appraiser: the bird is in mint condition. appraiser: and i would say if this were to go to auction today,

woman: really? appraiser: conrvativy it would be worth 2 in the bush. praiser: it's just biful, thank u so much for brinit i woman: unbelievable appraiser: conrvativy it would be worth 2 in the bush. anncr: geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more. [scraping] [piano keys banging] [scraping] [horns honking] with deposits in your engine, it can feel like something's holding your car back. let me guess, 16. [laughing] yeeah. that's why there's castrol gtx... with our most powerful deposit fighting ingredient ever. castrol gtx exceeds the toughest new industry standard. don't let deposits hold your car back. get castrol gtx. it's more than just oil. it's liquid engineering. t adththod it's dif - alcium crhea

♪ [ male announcer ] they've been tested, built and driven like no other. and now they're being offered like no other. come to the winter event and get an exceptional offer on the mercedes-benz of your dreams. it's our way of showing a little holiday spirit. and stay connected with three years of mbrace service complimentary. ♪ time for our political party, where we invite a wide

range of people to hear what they have to say about what's going on. dustin, former tennis pro, now a commentator on tennis channel and hero of mine for the great comeback at the u.s. open. and kurt, currently reviewing movies. >> we have over here kara santa maria, neurorow scientist, who sings jazz to herself. and have ma strz who is a comed. welcome, everybody. thanks for coming. >> thank you. >> i want to find out what neuroscience is about. today after being hammered here and abroad president obama sought refuge in the one place he can get a hero's welcome, he turned up in afghanistan. let's see what it looked like when the president visited with our troops. let's take a look. wait a minute. i'm sorry. this is just a bad joke.

that was when lebron james went back to cleveland. i guess he showed them when he scored 38 points, they won by a huge margin. good to know the president got a huge ovation, as any president would and should from the troops. what was up with the president's trip? was he running away from the bad news here? what do you think? >> unlike lebron it's nice the president understands loyalty. while the physical presence in afghanistan is decreasing it's nice that the soldiers know they have support of the president. >> it's nice to see him taking ownership of america's longest war. >> our longest war almost because of him at this point. he's the one who continued it when there was fair debate about that. >> back in washington -- >> come on, please. do we have to? >> the tax cut fights. the s.t.a.r.t. treaty. it's clear the republicans can still stonewall. democrats seem to be in a mode of appeasement.

what's going on here? do you have special -- you come from different backgrounds. do you have special recommendations? >> are we not all happy there's gridlock in washington? when there's gridlock they can't do as much. >> why is that a good thing? >> we see for the last two years, instead of getting stuff rammed down your throat, somebody should say, no, that's the same when the republicans -- >> you're a libertarian, no government is good government. i'd like to see progress. >> is it progress when they're jamming bills down people's throats and don't read them. >> they have to learn to compromise. that's the thing. i'm married, you learn to compromise. you want to see tranche, she wants to see burlesque. you go see burlesque. >> maybe it's time for the president to be tougher and not compromise, draw lines in the sands and say, afghanistan, i don't think we should be there, when it comes to tax policy i'm going to defend the middle class, not give tax cuts to those who are extraordinarily wealthy. i'd like to see a more assertive

determined president who stands for principle and doesn't feel compelled to put the first card on the table to cave. >> it's the democrats of congress who need to stick up and say, we're going to stick to our guns and -- >> they really do. >> they've had six years of doing that. what happened? >> trust and compromise are the cornerstone. there's nothing tougher than finding consensus. >> when the left is constantly trying to compromise and the right is constantly stonewalling, you see that meeting in the middle gets pushed farther and farther to the right. >> they moved the goal post. the left and those in the center need a lesson in negotiating strategy. anyway, look, we'll be right back with more of our political party. it's the only complete multivitamin with ginkgo to support memory and concentration. plus it supports heart health. [ bat cracks ] that's a hit. one a day men's. no pills, no pain. how can you get pain relief without taking pills around the clock? try thermacare heatwraps, for all day relief without pills. i was surprised, thermacare worked all day.

you feel the heat. and it relaxes and unlocks the muscle. you've got to try it. [ man ] thermacare, more effective for back pain than the maximum dose of acetaminophen, the medicine in tylenol. go to thermacare.com today for a $3 off coupon. thermacare. no pills. no pain. just relief. looks like we're in for a bumpy ride. go ahead, ignore me. but in this turbulent market, you're going to need help... protecting some of your assets for retirement. an axa equitable annuity could give you... guaranteed income for life. i'd call them, but what do i know? i'm just the 800-pound gorilla in the room. don't worry. i'm here. want guaranteed income for life? axa equitable is redefining what you expect from annuities. ooh, peanuts.

welcome back. we have time for one more question. yesterday congressman charlie rangel was censured, first to be in 27 years, whom would you like to kren sure? >> i'd like to see him shut the door. it means nothing. somebody says, you've been bad, that's all. it's the only thing that happens. >> doesn't happen that often. >> this guy is a tax dodger. >> put him aside. who else in the world do you think deserves -- >> any athlete that speaks in

the third person. >> i go after -- she said that muslims should be profiled at the airport. >> i am on your side. >> i like your profile. do that again. muslims should be profiled at the airport, she said that was her solution to the tsa problem. the fact is, first of all, if you're going to try to blow something up you're not going to dress up in muslim garb and get through. we had people that didn't fit the profile that didn't fit profile, jihad jane and all the others. >> darkest moments in our nation's history come from that sort of thing. >> i'd like to see john shimkis. we're talking about somebody in congress. it's not about an ethics violation but ignorance to a position you're in and it really scares me this man, and i'm bringing up a completely digit point here, wants to head an energy committee when he is citing genesis as to why global

warming is not going to happen in this country. >> it may be the case all the incoming republican members of congress have disavowed a belief in global warming. >> this is what scares me. i don't think -- this is a false debate. i don't think it's always fair to give equal footing to a religious opinion versus a science opinion on the science topic. >> on the eighth day, let there be no global warming? >> you're not going it be flying back to l.a. privately, are you? are you driving back in a preyugs? how are you getting back? you have your -- >> you know, it just bothers me when somebody wants to be in that situation and isn't willing to look at the actual evidence. >> global warming industry is collapsing of its own accord. >> the industry -- >> here we disagree. there is scientific agreement this is a real problem. >> science funded by -- >> we had on our program a couple weeks ago one of the big greatest doubters, one of the scientists who had been a

doubter who's now come around and said, it's a real problem, the only question is how you begin to confront him. >> who was he? >> yorin -- >> his idea is a little more nuanced. i said, there is a problem, it's happening, it's not necessary he the end of the world right now. >> what's the funny position on this? >> take the attention off the muslims, whatever you want to -- it wasn't us. it wasn't us. >> one thing you can't blame us for. >> okay. maz, kurt, kara santa maria, justen, thank you for being here. great party. a heart attack that's caused by a clot, one that could be fatal. but plavix helps save lives. plavix, taken with other heart medicines, goes beyond what other heart medicines do alone, to provide greater protection against heart attack or stroke and even death by helping to keep blood platelets from sticking together and forming dangerous clots.

ask your doctor if plavix is right for you. protection that helps save lives. [ female announcer ] certain genetic factors and some medicines, such as prilosec, reduce the effect of plavix leaving you at greater risk for heart attack and stroke. your doctor may use genetic tests to determine treatment. don't stop taking plavix without talking to your doctor as your risk of heart attack or stroke may increase. people with stomach ulcers or conditions that cause bleeding should not use plavix. taking plavix alone or with some other medicines, including aspirin, may increase bleeding risk, so tell your doctor when planning surgery. tell your doctor all medicines you take, including aspirin, especially if you've had a stroke. if fever, unexplained weakness or confusion develops, tell your doctor promptly. these may be signs of ttp, a rare but potentially life-threatening condition, reported sometimes less than 2 weeks after starting plavix. other rare but serious side effects may occur.

hello, i'm joe johns. more of "parker-spitzer" in a moment. first the latest. another violent death at disney developed community in florida five miles south of disney world. a 52-year-old resident of celebration shot himself during a standoff with a s.w.a.t. team. authorities say the death is not related to the case monday, the first homicide in the

community's 14-year history. tonight on 360, a big day in the don't ask, don't tell debate. the top military brass tells a senate armed services committee what they think should happen. that's the latest. now back to "parker-spitzer." tonight's postscript, paper yellows with age. a 200-year-old copy of the star spangled banner looks in darn good shape. it sold at auction today in new york for more than $500,000. >> that's a lot of moolah for a song nobody knows how to sing. the sheet music is up of the first 11 editions of the tune. the story goes he wrote it after watching the british attack ft. mchenry during the war of 1812. >> bone up on our history, too. he saw the rockets' red glare and bombs bursting in air. gives me goose bumps when i'm at a football game or baseball game and we hear