the day of those grammies. and i won for the broadway album. and i said in that speech, you know, who knows? maybe 24 years from now i'll be up for another grammy. and here it is 24 years later. >> see more of barbra streisand's interview with me tomorrow night. it's our next-to-last "larry king live" ever. then on thursday, big hour planned. with some surprises for you. and mostly for me. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> good evening, i'm kathleen parker. >> and i'm eliot spitzer. a stunning development today in the wikileaks saga. more on that coming up. also ahead tonight, james carville, nuanced and subtle as ever. take a listen. >> we're doubling down on the fail strategy. these tax cuts didn't work. what is -- why are we so enamored with failure? >> an innocent man may be on death row. >> if anybody thinks this man is guilty, put him away, throw away

the key, don't kill him. >> nba hall-of-famer, walt fraser breaks down the president's mission. >> he is a cool guy. he still has to overcome so you also need luck. >> all of that coming newspaper a packed hour. julian assange could walk out of jail on $315,000 bail. assange has been in a london prison awaiting extra dixon alleged sex offenses in sweden. when assange heard the ruling, he gave a thumbs up. assange will remain in jail for the next 48 hours as swedish prosecutors appeal his release. his lawyer fired off an angry response. >> they clearly will not spare any expense but to keep mr. assange in jail. this is really turning into a

show trial. >> a high profile cast of characters is also jumping to assange's defense. bianca jagger was at his defense. >> joining us in the arena for more on the ruling, naomi wolf, author of the end of america, and jeffrey toobin. thank you for joining us. naomi, let me begin with you. you have been critical of the swedish government for bringing the case. you're basically saying had he not been the individual who released these documents -- >> absolutely. >> this law would not be brought to bear against him in this way. this is government from the u.s. to sweden and britden saying we're going to shut you down. you're saying that's wrong? >> i can't say conclusively until the man has his day in court. the women need their day in court. from 23 years of looking at how rape is treated, this is so anomalous -- >> does that bother you? >> no, not a bit.

sweden has the right to enforce their laws however they want. >> selectively. >> the idea that sweden all of a sudden has become a wing of the fbi or the american republican party is totally inconsistent. >> that's so naive of you. of course the united states brings pressure to bear against governments like britain which is a total -- >> seriously. with respect to the iraq war, if the united states wants to charge julian assange, which they very well may, they probably should, they might as well charge him. they need to arrest him -- have sweden arrest him for rape. it's so circuitous. >> where are we in the investigation? it's been a week since eric holder held a press conference? >> i have no idea, but certainly, it is well under way. there is one report that a grand jury has been empanelled in the western district of virginia,

but we have suffered a massive disclosure of disclosure. >> he's the publisher as is the new york times as is the guardian as we are discussing it. it is a very dark day because what they're looking at is the espionage act. you and i know that was used to close down dissent, close down criticism for a decade. if they're going to go after wikileaks for publishing information, then by your reasoning they have to go after "the new york times" and cnn and fox news and every news outlet that covered it. >> these so called news outlets had in getting the information in the first place. >> i want to investigate julian assange. >> you want to investigate your employer. >> i'm talking about getting the information from the person who took it. that's what's significant? >> he's a publisher. >> i don't think -- he is the co-conspirator.

>> "the new york times" and cnn and fox news. >> i'm going to say something that i think puts assange off to the sidelines. he may not matter. by next week, there will be other outlets, other on the line entities that have replicated wikileaks. there's one being created right now. open leaks is the name. there's nothing that julian assange did that is so unique. he was the recipient. we, wikileaks is saying, are going to be here to receive leaks from anybody. we will talk to media outlets to see if they want it. is this the way napster was with music. a whole new technology is created. you were involved in top security clearance documents. is it impossible to maintain that security around those documents? >> no, it's not impossible. ultimately, someone has to make the decision to take classified information like manning is accused of doing, putting

people's lives in jeopardy and fortunately, i don't think the united states government is crawling with people who want to do that, but if there are people who want to do that and if there are people who want to assist them, they should all go to prison because it's illegal and wrong and places people's lives in danger. >> let me ask you a direct question. if you are -- if you can establish that someone died as a direct result of assange's work, is that not equivalent to yelling fire in a theater? >> no, it's not. i mean, the chain of causation is very hard to pin down here. certainly, you know, look, i believe the government overclassifies a lot. but we cannot have the julian assanges of the world as the arbiter of what should be public and what shouldn't. it's just not right. you know, the idea that this guy is a whistle blower, what did he disclose here?

>> you object to the publication of pentagon papers? >> you know what, i think there's a huge moral difference. the moral difference is that was a situation where you had daniel ellsworth on his own -- >> "the new york times." >> "the new york times" didn't tell him to take the documents. once they took the documents, they gave it to "the new york times." >> they published it. >> that's different. it's very different from assange encouraging working with people -- >> "the new york times" encourages people to bring them news worthy material. >> i don't get it. this is a hypothetical. you're saying give me your leak documents. if you're wikileaks and not soliciting. >> that's a big difference. >> people need to know there might be whistle blowers and that does keep their actions within parameters. >> we will continue this.

jeff, naomi, thank you for being with us. coming up, one of the few senators to vote against the tax compromise. sharon brown joins us next to tell us why. we'll be right back. let me tell you about a very important phone call i made. when i got my medicare card, i realized i needed an aarp... medicare supplement insurance card, too. medicare is one of the great things about turning 65, but it doesn't cover everything. in fact, it only pays up to 80% of your part b expenses. if you're already on or eligible for medicare, call now to find out how an aarp...

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and best of all, these plans are... the only medicare supplement plans endorsed by aarp. when they told me these plans were endorsed by aarp... i had only one thing to say... sign me up. call the number on your screen now... and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan. you'll get this free information kit... and guide to understanding medicare, to help you choose the plan that's right for you. as with all medicare supplement plans, you can keep your own doctor and hospital that accepts medicare, get help paying for what medicare doesn't... and save up to thousands of dollars. call this toll-free number now. >> a political story this week. is the president's tax break compromise. after winning the procedural vote yesterday, a full senate vote is expected late tonight. focus turns to the house where we're gathering opposition on the right and left.

the outcome is not certain. >> 15 senators voted against the bill last night. one of them was sharon brown, democrat from ohio. he joins us now. welcome, senator. >> good to be with you. >> senator, can you tell us why you voted against the tax compromise plan? >> yes. i was hopeful there would be a compromise still, that we could get the republicans to the table to deal with the huge hole that these tax cuts, especially upper end income tax cuts are blowing in the budget deficit in the next couple of years. i don't want to see us in a position that all the budget balancing is done on the backs of social security, medicare. there are good things to make me vote no. in terms of what it does for unemployment, it's hard to look in an unemployed person's eyes and say sorry about your unemployment benefits. last night was our last chance to get a better deal, a better bill. i think we're stuck with where

we are. >> i would have voted no also, because i think this is not the right compromise. one of the things i don't get is the way this seems to have played out. when did the senate democrats, certainly the santa ana leadership seem to be taken by surprise when the president announced this compromise? were democratic senators brought into this negotiating process? >> there were senators there. we were all talking to the white house. a couple senators were part of the negotiations, but as you know, there are negotiations and there's negotiations. the final negotiations, apparently took place between the white house and senate republicans and our input seemed to be less welcome at that point. i think that's why house members, so many house members, frankly, both conservative and progressive house members in both parties are not particularly happy, because their half of the legislative branch. they were excluded too. it's not that they were excluded. it's the people they fight for are excluded.

>> it's also a matter in terms of negotiating strategy. if your allies don't know what deals you're cutting, you can't assess to either bluff or push the other side to negotiate its own position when the white house seemed to cut out its allies in this process, the democrats in the senate. that's why we don't understand their strategy here. >> i would have done it differently, but he's president. i hope that it changes in the next few months because i'm a strong supporter of the president and will continue to be. when i disagree, i generally do it quietly. this one, we hoped we could change by being more public. we'll work together. he knows he needs us, we need him. >> the bill now goes to the house of representatives. i realize that the senate and house don't like to speak to each other. what's your best guess on how things will go there? >> the senate will pass it late tonight, i assume, with a handful of no votes. i hope the house sends us something that's an improved

bill and we take it up. if it improves much, the senate republicans might turn their backs again. if you remember, kathleen, they signed a letter, i've never seen u.s. senators engage in a work stoppage before, all 42 of them said we ain't doing nothing until we get our tax cuts. we're not passing unemployment, food safety, we're not going to do anything until we get our tax cuts for the rich. they work for them, but i don't think it works for them long term. i hope they don't behave like that in the future. >> they made clear what they care most about. you've indicated what you care most about. you don't see your position being the same as theirs. >> i know you don't get everything you want in this. i didn't say, the democrats didn't say we're not going to do

anything in this body until we get our way on one specific thing. >> one of the things the president has said to justify the compromise is that, look, this is only a two year extension. two years from now, i will really, really fight against the tax cut extensions for the rich unlike i was saying during the campaign. how do you see the politics of this two years from now when the house of representatives are going to be in the political ends. will it be easier to repeal this? >> you never know. you come off a terrible election for your party like the president has. it does change the discussion. even though the republicans aren't in office. if the president wins a fairly resounding victory in 2012, i think he's going to win my state, which means he probably gets re-elected because of the importance of ohio, i think he's in a stronger political position. i think he will fight for it. i think it will be part of his campaign. it's just so hard to predict, as you know. >> one of the things that i find

so troubling is two weeks ago we had the bowl us simpson report. everybody was saying the deficit is the major crisis we face over the next decade. a week and a half later, we've blown another $4 trillion hole in the deficit. what happened over the course of the weekend or two weekends? deficits concerns went nowhere and we add $4 trillion to the deficit? >> deficit concerns are never as much as people around here like to say they are. in my party, social security and medicare, the importance of those two things trump deficit concerns. the republicans party, tax cuts for the rich trump deficit concerns. read into that what you want. that's clearly what happened. in the juxtaposition, the democrats sat around talking about it and tax cuts for people making millions of dollars a year is pretty stark. this will be the excuse to gut the programs that you and i care

about and that we will get the raw end of both sides of this bargain, tax cuts for the rich and none of the investment we need. that would be the worst possible outcome. >> that's my biggest fear. the discussions in the next two to five years are all about cutting spending on pel grants and the environmental protection agency and medicare and social security. they're not going to get away with it, but it's going to be a big fight. >> i do have to say, there's one school of thought that thinks it's good social policy to borrow money from the chinese to build a bigger deficit. >> right. >> senator brown, thanks for joining us. >> thank you, senator. >> it's not what we want but it's what we got. not exactly a ringing endorsement. we talk to james carville when we come back.

>> he's not opposed to some of these members of the opposition party are hideous. i disagree with him. >> care to name names? >> this show only lasts an hour.

>> the obama tax deal is likely to pass the senate and move to the house for a vote by the end of the week. obama took another hit today. part of his health care law has

been ruled unconstitutional. here with some insight is james carville, cnn contributor. hi, james, how are you? >> doing good, kathy. good to be on your show. >> i got to ask you about president bill clinton's visit to the white house. what is going on? president obama handed the podium over to the former president and disappeared. what's up? >> you know, in president obama's defense, i think it was effective. the votes started pouring in after that. president clinton is a very good explainer. he would be a great college professor. i hope he gets down to my class at tulane. >> i agree that bill clinton is persuasive. was that a good move for president obama to say i'm keeping the wife waiting and let the other president take over?

>> i'll tell you what people are saying, if president obama would have been there, president clinton would have been constrained, felt like he had to take a secondary role allow him to flower, if you will. and bloom he did. >> heaven forbid we should miss that. >> he is an amazing explainer. we've all heard him. did he persuade you? after he was done, you've been harshly critical of this. you said it was a capitulation. is it a great deal? >> i like to refer to him as the manila cause, like we folded. he persuaded me that given the circumstances that this is a deal that we have to accept. i think in fairness to president obama, there are some good things in there. elections have consequences.

one of the consequences, if you're a rich person, you're going to do very well. that's the consequence of this election. that's a consequence of this agreement. >> is the house going to get any significant changes? last week, i thought it was quite a remarkable moment when the democrats got together and said we're not bringing this to the floor. this violates our principles. will anything change in the bill because of that? >> i don't know. my thing is the republicans got to two to one what we they wanted. you supply two-thirds of the vote for this because you get two-thirds of the goodies. i doubt that's going to happen. the reality is we are in difficult economic times. this is the deal on the table. this is probably going to be -- my daddy used to say, you're going to like it because you got to like it. that's pretty much where we are. we're going to like it because we got to like it. i think president clinton made that abundantly clear. this is what you're going to get and it's actually better than you think. i don't know if i agree with him.

>> good soldier. you were certainly in the senior ranks of his court. >> right. >> let me ask you one thing. it seems to me this deal kicks everything down the road. if you were worried about the deficit, it adds $4 trillion. if you want the stimulus, only a little piece of it is real stimulus. a lot of it is giveaways to the wealthy. we're borrowing from china. how does this help us overcome our problems? >> i'm trying desperately to be a soldier here. you're tempting me to break ranks. my big problem is, of course as a republican, we're doubling down on a fail strategy. tax cuts didn't work. why are we so enamored with failure. we want to try something different and new that may work. i'm desperately trying to stay in line here, but you are making it very hard. a lot of this stuff is particularly the stuff with reference to the estate tax, why would americans have an

unbelievably difficult time that we do in this which has no economic benefit to speak of, i have no idea. i'm at a loss for this. it was something that the republicans absolutely insisted on. the truth of the matter is, i will let them defend that more than a democrat. >> some members of the obama administration, including larry summers are saying this is a good thing. it is going to stimulate the economy. to not do it would have the opposite effect. what do you say to those people? >> this would be the same thing larry summers said we don't need to regulate derivatives. larry summers' iq is 248 but he also has a track record here. look, you know, he helped put, you know, i want to say negotiated, he helped sign this deal, sign off on it. it's what's there and to the extent it's better than nothing,

he's right, i guess by that minimal standard, this is something we should be for. >> woody allen said the brain is the most overrated organ and he should know. let's switch gears a minute. your friend bill clinton was known for many things including his emotional up frontness. he could cry at the drop of a hat. last night, we all watched 60 minutes and we saw the rising speaker of the house, john boehner become very emotional in several segments. i have to say that i even teared up at one point because i thought it was very touching. >> i can't go to a school anymore. i used to go to a lost schools. see all these little kids run around. can't talk about it. >> why? >> making sure that these kids have a shot at the american dream, like i did, it's important.

>> what do you think? is that helpful or not? is that good for a leader to cry or not? >> i don't know. john boehner doesn't deserve this, it's not exactly what he wants to hear. he's a fairly decent guy. you know, when you lead the kind of life he has. you are the speaker of the house, third in line to the presidency, maybe that's kind of what he feels. he's not -- as opposed to some of these members of the opposition party, are hideous and odious, i disagree with him. >> care to name names? >> i don't -- this show only lasts an hour. >> yeah. james carville, it's great to have you with us. thank you so much. >> you bet. love you guys. take care. >> when we come back, fareed zacarias comes back. we are putting off tomorrow what tax cuts will cost us today.

>> this time around, one more time we've been told this is not the right time to raise taxes or cut the fiscal house. we'll do it when the economy is better. when the economy was better, we said this isn't the right time to do it. somehow, no matter what time it is in washington, it's never time to put our fiscal house in order.

>> our next guest always does a unique jofb what politicians seem unwilling to do. >> fareed zakaria has a column to tell us how to get out from under our economic woes. >> you said we're hurting ourselves by practicing manana economics. >> one more time we've been told this is not the right time to raise taxes or cut the debt or get the fiscal house in order. of course when the economy was better, we said this isn't the right time to do it. somehow, no matter what time it is in washington, it's never time to put our fiscal house in order. i just worry that there's a theory here that congress will, at some point in the future, have the political courage it now lacks. i don't see anything to suggest that that's going to happen. >> wasn't this simply the path of least resistance? this perpetuates the need to

restructure our economic future? >> it's the santa claus compromise. each side got what they wanted. each side talks about how hard it was. the republicans got the tax cuts. the democrats got the unemployment. the hard choice is saying no. >> fareed, everybody knows that we have to raise more money in order to provide the services that we seem to want and yet at the same time, we've got to cut spending in order to cut our deficit and reduce our debt. why is it that we can't come to the recognition that there actually is going to have to be some pain involved and as you say, if it's not now, it's going to be later and it will be worse then? >> this may be a disease of modern democracy. it's difficult for the system to impose short term painful long term gain. we came out of thanksgiving.

it was a puritan festival. they were about delayed gratification. the key phrase to understand the protestant revolution was deferred gratification. if you want to find deferred gratification, you have to go to asia. >> you don't simply say we should be taxing the wealthy to reduce the deficit. we should be taxing all of us in order to invest in the future because in china, they are investing $1.5 trillion in seven critical sectors where they will wipe us out competitively if we don't react. >> this is something we all forget about. the basis of this extraordinary american goegt that we've seen over the last 40 or 50 years was very large government investments or government support for technologies. if the defense department had not been there, there would be no semi conductor industry. interstate highways, if nasa hadn't been there, there wouldn't be a computer science

industry. we have to get back into that game. as you point out as i say in the article, the only government that believes in it right now is china and to a lesser extent, south korea, and they're growing 9% a year. we need to make massive investments in technology. some of it will take the form of tax credits. some of it has to be direct government involvement. for example, our infrastructure is crumbling. our infrastructure is crumbling. >> part of the problem is people don't trust the government. there is no faith in the institution. no faith in the politicians. i don't want to pay more taxes because i know they're going to frit ter away. >> the fundamental problem is the government does not fritter away the money. the stimulus program, the 2009

was, was reasonably effective. there wasn't a lot of pork. the problem is government spends enormous amounts of money subsidizing all of us. >> social security is a efficient program. it takes money from one hand and gives it to the other. we have to stop thinking of the program as wasteful abuse. the problem is we want to consume a lot of stuff, health care, and the government pays for that. >> the american people really have to make the decision that we don't want to continue going down this road of debt and deficit. >> right. it needs leadership. there was a recent poll in which americans were asked what do you want to do to deal with the deficit. they said we don't want to cut any spending at all. >> arts and education. which is irrelevant and would be a shame. education, of course, is also the key as you've pointed out in so many of your articles. the report that came out last week, china ahead of us, ranking

number one in the world. we're down in 17, 24, 25. that is where the future rests. if we could take $120 billion that would go to the wealthy over the next two years alone under this tax compromise and invest it into our k through 12 program, it would be better for our nation in the long run. >> we've missed so many opportunities. $2-3 trillion in iraq and afghanistan, imagine that invested in the way we're discussing. i would let the tax cuts expire for everyone. you would have 6 or $700 billion. you can put it in the report, the study out of china, the international education study is worth stressing because the fact that china is number one is actually stunning. the idea that what is still a developing country is beating the pants off us is extraordinary. >> of course we don't want to beat china. china does well and en masse because people don't have choices as we do in this

country. there has to be self imposed discipline. i don't know how you do that. >> we do want to beat china in one respect. to have the capacity to make tough judgment calls. what we have done is kick the can down the road over and over, whether it's the deficit or investments, continuing to consume on credit card. that has simply reached its limits. that's why the crash of '08. we're building the fundamentals of another crash with the tax cut. it doesn't work. >> the chinese are the ones that should be thanksgiving. we should be having a mardis gras party. >> do you have faith in the american people that we can do this? >> no. i think the people are the big problem. everybody wants to say american people are so wonderful. i think when they come to recognize that they have to make sacrifices too that it's not wasteful, they need to recognize that some of what's going to

happen here is fewer. they have to consume fewer things. they have to accept slightly higher taxes. in the long run, you will have a much better economy. >> so nice to have you with us. >> an acclaimed author whose book was bought by president obama when he was 12 years old and he won two nba titles. >> i came from humble beginnings in georgia. today, i know if you have a game plan, because people don't plan to fail, they fail to plan. if you believe in achieving, you're motivated, you put in the time, the work diligently and you have a tenacious work ethic, nothing can deny you the success. i realized i needed an aarp... medicare supplement insurance card, too. medicare is one of the great things about turning 65, but it doesn't cover everything. in fact, it only pays up to 80% of your part b expenses.

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>> now for tonight's person of interest. he's one of the greatest basketball players the game has ever known and part of the magical era in basketball history. bill bradley has called him "the only player i've ever seen i would describe as an artist." >> nowadays, he ts his time commenting on the knicks games and he writes books. welcome number 10 walt clyde fraser. we're both star struck. president obama, when he met

your co-author here, he said he bought this book when he was 12 years old. did it rub off on him? >> i think so. he's a very cool guy. he has style. >> he got the cool part. >> he idolized lenny which will ny wilkins. he's a lefty. >> left handed you mean? >> yeah. >> you say you never look at somebody's eyes. you look at their belt buckle? >> you look at their eyes, they could fake you. wherever their belt buckle goes, you must go. >> that doesn't work in real life. you would get in trouble watching people's belt buckles. you say -- you write in your book that taking sides causes hassles. is that true in politics as well? >> of course. >> this is a political show. >> when i was a ball player, i was a neutral.

i never took one side or the other because half the people are going to hate you. >> exactly. >> are you willing to dive into it? >> these days, since i'm not playing, i have more impact on taking sides with one or the other. my mother always told me a house divided cannot stand. in politics, there's a lot of turmoil, animosity, you have to work together. that's essentially what we call team work, working together as a team. >> did you ever have to overcome that on the team. you were part of the legendary knicks moment when those of us who were my age, 50 or above, that's the only time the knicks won. were there times that you overcame? >> we had sweet harmony, primarily because of our coach. >> you grew up with no advantages whatsoever. you learned to play basketball in a dirt lot full of pebbles as i recall from your book.

you didn't think you had what it took to become the player that you clearly became. yet you also had the reputation of being cool. you defined cool. by that, i don't mean the cars and clothes which you did have, but it was your attitude and your sense of self. you didn't go where everybody else went. if everybody else wanted to get drunk, you didn't feel you had to participate in that. you were your own man from a young age without much help along the way. where did that come from. what advice do you give to young people today who want to be walt frazier? >> i'm the youngest of nine kids. i have seven sisters and one brother. i was a role model before i knew what the word meant. my whole thing was my parents taught me you're representing the family. wherever i went i was cognizant of that. i had a chance to do drugs but the thing that came back to me

is what would my mother think. a lot of times what would my mother do to me if i did this. i stayed away from it. a lot of times the guys would drink and i wouldn't. after awhile they accepted me in the group. as far as style and fashion, which i relate to as well, whenever i go to a new tailor, i tell him show me something you think no one will wear. >> back to the president for a minute, charles barkley tore apart the president's game not too long ago. we wanted to get you to look at some video of the president playing basketball and maybe give him some tips. what do you think? here we go. can you take us through this here, walt? there he goes. lefty. >> that was good penetrating. >> looked like the knicks of two years ago. >> right. right. little wheeling and dealing. he made a nice move. >> he's got the moves. >> poor president obama.

one thing he does extremely well, we still have to pick him apart. i guess that's our job. >> when you're number one, that's what happens. people are always taking shots at you. >> walt frazier, great to have you with us. >> five federal judges say a man may be innocent. the state of california is still prepared to execute him. we'll ask his lawyer if he's run out of time. >> you referred to a strong probability of planted evidence, destruction of evidence. as a former prosecutor, it makes my blood run cold to see that. what has been done in the state of california to follow up on this powerful accusation of malfeasance. >> very little is the problem.

>> now, in taking a stand, a chilling story out of california. >> in the view of five federal judges, the state of california may be about to execute an innocent man. that man is kevin cooper. he faces lethal injection for allegedly murdering a white family. >> when you look at the facts nearly everything points to cooper's innocence. we spoke to nicklas chris who wrote a column about the case. >> nicklas, you wrote a great piece describing all of this. tell us about the case? >> in 1983, you had a horrific murder of a family, four people murdered and their son left with his throat slashed. >> he survived. >> he survived and he

immediately identified, he said three white people had done it, but immediately, the police discovered that only 125 yards away, there was a black man, kevin cooper who had escaped from a low security correction facility and was hiding out there at the time, more or less at the time of those killings. they immediately focused their attention on him and arrested him. then what the judges in this case suggest, there is a lot of evidence for it, is that once they were convinced of his guilt, they began to plant evidence to confirm that. maybe more important, they also ignored evidence that another group of three people were involved. >> look, i want to point out, you're handling this case pro bono. >> yes. >> i read that the dissent, five judges, ninth circuit, a senior prominent u.s. federal circuit, five judges said this is an innocent man. rarely do you see opinions like this. from a legal perspective, where are we? what happens next?

>> my co-counsel did the trial work here. speaking really on behalf of a large pro bono team. our point on the clemency petition, is even if you believe this man is guilty, there's enough substantial doubt and absolute evidence of police misconduct that judge fletcher wrote an opinion with this much doubt and this much evidence of police misconduct we're asking for life imprisonment without parole as governor schwarzenegger decision. >> why would you ask for life without parole rather than clemency? >> because where there's life, there's hope. in texas, a man was executed and a year later found to be innocent. what we are saying is at least put him in jail without parole, if you kill him, there's no hope. >> reading this dissent, there's a strong probability of planted evidence, destruction of

evidence. as a former prosecutor, it makes my blood run cold to see that. what has been done in the state of california to follow up on this powerful accusation of malfeasance? >> very little is the problem. the circuit court, the ninth circuit sent it back to the district court to follow up on these leads. there was a beige t-shirt that had been found at the scene, was probably left by the murderer or murderers. it turned out to have kevin cooper's blood on it. that is obviously very damning but it turns out whrks they checked that blood, there was a blood preservative on it, an anticoagulent. the question is what happens? the thought is it came from the police file of his blood. the district court did not pursue that and did not allow counsel to pursue that. >> indicated it had been completed. >> exactly.

>> you mentioned other evidence too that was kind of stunning. there were three weapons allegedly that were involved in the killing of this family. >> that's right. the coroner had said there were either three or four weapons used in these killings. a hatchet, one or two knives and -- ice pick? >> an ice pick, that's right. >> why would one perpetrator be juggling these weapons. >> horrific is a horror to begin with, but the son identified three white males to be the assailants. >> that's right. you don't have any alternative theory. >> the suspect. >> in this case you have an alternative. three other people who was identified by the girlfriend of having appeared that night in bloody clothing to presented those bloody overalls to the police and they threw them away.

>> there was also a case in pennsylvania involving this same man. he was accused, i think, of kidnapping and raping a 14-year-old girl. i think this was, correct me if i am wrong, this was known to the community. is there anything about that particular case that maybe caused the community outcry? >> this is a heinous crime and the community was outraged by the awful crime. he was never convicted of that crime. he was convicted of burglary. he was not tried for that crime. the fact he was accused was in all the newspapers. the most damning evidence was that these bloody coveralls were never presented to the jury. the person that said he threw them away on his own was one of the lead witnesses, a forensic detective who said i threw them away on my own decision. subsequently we found he had been instructed to throw them away by the supervisor. so he lied under oath. >> you're talking about the overalls who were worn by the alternative suspect who people

think did commit the crime. that was never given to the defense attorney? >> the girlfriend who has now unfortunately passed away said to the police my boyfriend came home with bloody coveralls in the station wagon that was similar to the station wagon that was found to have been owned by the ryans. the hatchet that was also -- there was a hatchet found. she said there's a hatchet missing from our house. that evidence was never presented with the jury. with this much doubt, why kill him if we're asking for governor schwarzenegger for clemency. >> this is precisely why i'm against the death penalty. if there's any sliver of doubt, we need to err on the side of keeping people alive. >> what can we do? >> i think at this point, governor schwarzenegger is the last best hope for kevin cooper. they need to contact his office.

>> thank you so much for being here. when we come back, the tributes are still pouring in for ambassador richard holbrooke. the last word, as he would appreciate, belongs to him. stay with us. ?????

>> hello, i'm joe jons. more of "parker spitzer" in a moment. in florida, a shooting at a

school board meeting. a 56-year-old man opened fire. incredibly no one was hit. the gunman killed himself after he was shot by a security guard. presidential candidates need to prove they are born here. we are keeping them honest. that's the latest. now back to "parker spitzer." >> a diplomats last words. we devoted our show to richard holbrooke last night. special representative for afghanistan and pakistan. today, the editorials and testimonials poured in, the final words were spoken to his doctor, he said "you've got to stop this war in afghanistan." people immediately took it as a parting message to the world. >> now we've learned the conversation didn't happen that way.