usa" starts right now. thank you for joining us, i'm candy crowley, john king is off. one of al qaeda's most visible leaders is dead. a u.s. drone killed him. does anyone have a problem with that? florida republicans defy tradition and move up their primary. the richest self-made wolf in the world and it's not oprah. we begin with breaking news, the news you need to know right now. a just released bulletin from the fbi and the department of homeland security warns that u.s. and western based sympathizer sympathizers on anwar al alaki. the government is concerned

about the possibility that al qaeda in the arabian peninsula could attempt to retaliate. the agencies face an increased challenge in detecting terrorist plots underway by individuals or small groups acting quickly and independently. al awalaki was a top member of al qaedaing and personally declared war on the u.s. a missile from the u.s. drone hit his car in yemen. president obama makes no apology and calls his death a major blow to al qaeda. >> he directed the failed attempt to blow up an airplane on christmas day. in 200 he directed the failed attempt to blow up cargo planes. and he repeatedly called on individuals in the united states and around the globe to kill innocent men, women and children to advance a murderous agenda. >> in an interview with cnn's

erin burnett today, leon panetta defended the rational for killing al awalki without giving him a trial. >> this individual was a terrorist. yes, he was a citizen, but if you're a terrorist, you're a terrorist. and that means we have the ability to go after those who would threaten to attack the united states and kill americans. there's no question that the authority and the ability to go after a terrorist is there. >> barbara star has been working her sources to get more details about the drone attack. what are the latest details? >> this was a drone flying over yemen, about 80 miles east of the capitol when they spotted their target. al awalki was in a convoy with

other men, at least four operatives were killed. he and an associate of his. look, you know, the u.s. intelligence community has been working for almost two years to try to get this guy. there was no secret about that. there had been failed attempts, right after osama bin ladin was killed, they tried a drone strike and missed him by a couple feet by all accounts. so they had been eyes peeled of the u.s. intelligence community and the u.s. military on yemen for months now looking for him. by all accounts, when they finally got their chance, they took the shot. candy? >> we've heard a lot of talk today about how this was a joint u.s./yemeni government operation. do you have a sense at all about how much involvement the yemeni's actually had? we do know the drone was a cia

drone. that's what we're told. what was the yemeni part. >> that remains to be seen. they may have provided some assistance on the ground in understanding where his hideout was. that would be something that would be tough for the u.s. to figure out, pretty -- a little easier for the yemeni forces to figure out. they understand the ground, they understand the tribal structure on the ground in yemen and where awlaki may have been hiding out. to track him and then be able to call in a drone with that kind of firepower, with that kind of precision targeting, with jets over head ready to drop bombs if it came to that. that's the kind of sophisticated coordination technology communications and intelligence that i think we will assume by all accounts from every source we've talked to. it's that heavy lifting that was done by the u.s. intelligence community and the u.s. military.

>> barbara star, thank you. anwar al awlaki was born in new mexico and lived in the u.s. until the age of 7. nic robertson picks up how he became one of the most wanted terrorists. >> reporter: an american citizen born into privilege. he was educated at several u.s. universities before becoming an imam in california and virginia. he met three of the 9/11 hijackers. his appeal and charisma will be sorely missed by al qaeda's yemen franchise. his inspirational message was more popular, selling thousands upon thousands of dvd's, offering recruitment and money raising opportunities for the radical and his allies.

his killing plays into yemeni politics in a big way. but even with awlaki's reported killing al qaeda in the arabian peninsula remains a very potent threat. for example, the sophisticated bomb maker behind the two most recent attempted attacks on the united states, ibrahim is still on the loose. yemen continues to become a failed state. >> from istanbul, mohammad jam june has more details on the other citizen killed in today's attack. >> reporter: a pakistani born american citizen, the co-editor of inspire magazine, the english language magazine used by al

qaeda in the arabian peninsula to recruit new members. yemeni officials are saying this is a severe blow to the propaganda in al qaeda. what's yet to be seen is the effect this will have on the leader in yemen. he's maintained all along that he's the only effective bullworth in al qaeda against that country. he's the key leader trying to combat al qaeda in that country, mohammad jamjoon cnn. >> we will have more on the impact of al awlaki's death in a few minutes. army general martin dempsey is the new chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, replacing admiral mike mullen who had the line of the day. >> to those of you who aren't

the closest to us, well, maybe you should have stepped it up a notch. it doesn't hurt to have friends with access to drones. >> today's top story in politics, florida republicans set their presidential primary for january 31st. that is ahead of the tentative february dates for the iowa caucuses and primaries in new hampshire, south carolina and nevada. republicans in all four states say they will move up their contests. new hampshire is not ruling out a primary as early as this december. the government will not shut down tonight at midnight, but check back with us next week. the bill president obama signed today only contains enough money to keep things running through tuesday. the house will have to pass another short term spending bill before then. first cantaloupe, now lettuce. a california lettuce grower is recalling chopped and shredded romain lettuce, shipped to 19

states and canada. the lettuce which has a use by date of september 29th, may be contaminated with the same kind of bacteria that tainted cantaloupes from colorado. 15 people now have died from eating those contaminated cantaloupes. warren buffett says after 20 years of class warfare in the u.s., the rich have won. buffet also defended bank of america's decision to start charging customers $5 a month for using debit cards. buffet is a major stakeholder in the bank. >> there are 7,000 banks in the united states, if someone else offers a better deal, they can go to that. can you change channels on television. >> hurricane season is not over yet. today hurricane ophelia strengthened into a category 3 storm with sustained winds of 115 miles an hour. it's expected to pass east of bermuda by late saturday.

tropical storm philippe is further out in the atlantic. today, the paramedic who rushed michael jackson to the hospital told a jury he never saw any signs of life during the 42 minutes he spent trying to revive him. he did see jackson's doctor, con rads murray putting items in a bag as jackson was wheeled out of his bedroom. dr. murray is on trial for the death of michael jackson. amanda knox is expected to address the court monday just before the judge's ruling. matthew chance is covering the case. knox has one last chance monday to make her case. what is her case? >> reporter: on monday she'll be able to make her plea. in a sense, so will her former boyfriend, who is also up for appeal. they're going to be doing that in italian, the parents of

amanda knox tell me she's been making notes and preparing what she's going to say. we expect this to be a last final kind of plea to the jury to set her free. a last final plea of innocence. the defense all along have said there's no real physical evidence connecting amanda knox to the crime scene. they characterize this as a miscarriage of italian justice. the frick now, of course, the hope now on the part of amanda knox and her family, is that she and her defense lawyers so far, can convince that jury to overturn that 26-year sentence that she's serving. >> matthew, she gets a chance to have her last say before this court. a ruling could come as early as monday. maybe later. what could happen? >> it's pretty interesting. there are several possible

outcomes. it's not just a question of whether she's released or kept in jail. obviously she could be found not guilty of these crimes that she's already been convicted of, and released straight away. she could be released, found guilty, of course, and made to serve out her 26-year sentence. the prosecution asked for an increase in the sentence too, from 26 to life in prisonment. there's also another possibility, the court could find amanda knox guilty of a lesser crime, reduce her sentence significantly or reduce it to time already served. there's a whole range of options on the table for the jury to consider, and for the judge to finally rule on as you say. we expect that ruling to come on monday night. >> matthew chance, a very decisive week for amanda knox coming up. thank you.

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a just released bulletin from the fbi and department of homeland security warns that sympathizers with al qaeda may attempt to take revenge on the drone strike on al awlaki. before he came one of the world's most wanted men he taught muslims in america. >> to the muslims in america, very this to say, how can your conscience allow you to live in peaceful co existence with a nation that is responsible for the tyranny and crimes committed against your own brothers and sisters? how can you have your loyalty to a government that is leading the war against islam and muslims? >> officials say al awlaki is

tied to a number of high profile terror attacks. the shootings in ft. hood, 2009s failed christmas day bomb iing, when a passenger with explosives hidden in his underwear failed to bring down a flight. and the failed attempt to bring down cargo planes with bombs hidden in toner cartridges for printers. with us now, adam chiff, thanks for being here. we know this is a significant get. a significant moment for the united states. but is it a psychological blow to al qaeda? or is it an actual operational blow? >> i think it's both. it's certainly a psychological blow. he was very operational as well. he was probably one of the most successful in terms of recruiting westerners, people with u.s. passports to commit acts of violence against the u.s. are our allies.

in that sense. as one of the operational recruit hes, it's a very significant loss to al qaeda. >> was he able to get things to -- secure plots outside yemen? or was he strictly an internet promoter of al qaeda views? >> he certainly used the internet very well, and he was very strong in technology, strong in his understanding of the west. that's what made him so dangerous. he had communication with the ft. hood shooter, so he was able to help radicalize, help give a religious respectability in terms of committing those acts of violence. he did certainly have an effect beyond yemen's borders, also in terms of hatching plots in yemen, like the underwear bomber that could have killed many people outside of yemen. and i think the real significance is in the context of two things, one is his

killing is the most recent of a series of devastating blows to al qaeda. then you have the dual blow to the ideology of al qaeda, that we see in the arab spring. these two things put together are really quite devastating to al qaeda. the loss of their nartive, the whole arab spring, the idea that you can bring about change without these acts of terrorism as we have seen in tunisia, egypt and elsewhere. and then the loss of these key players in al qaeda. >> we were told that the bodies and the convoy were burned beyond recognition. and yet from the start, the u.s. said, this is al awlaki. we know this is al awlaki. how do we know this is al awlaki? >> i'm going to speculate. we, in advance of these kind of attacks -- obviously we've been going after these targets for a long time. we want to make sure we can make

positive identification. it's no good to us if we don't know we have killed the right person. it may take having dental records -- >> it was before his father even got out to where the killing took place. it was almost instantaneous. >> if i had the specific information in terms of how the i.d. could be made, i couldn't share it with you. there's a high level of confidence that the idea is correct here. >> you're convinced it is al awlaki? >> on the basis of what i heard, yes. you wouldn't have high ranking people in this administration expressing confidence about it, unless they had rock solid proof. >> i want to play you something from ron paul, and what he had to say today about the u.s. drone attack that killed al awlaki. >> al awlaki was born here, he's an american citizen, he was never tried or charged with any crimes. we know he may have been

associated with the underwear bomber. but if the american people accept this blindly and casually, we now have an accepted practice of the president assassinating people who he thinks are bad guys. >> the question here, we heard similar revelations from the aclu saying this was an american citizen born in new mexico, and he was killed by his own government. any qualms? do you have any qualms whatsoever? >> i would only agree with ron in his comment that americans shouldn't accept this blindly and casually. this is not a casual thing, it's the killing of an american citizen -- >> two american citizens. >> two american citizens. when someone, an american citizen or not, joins a terrorist organization and tries to kill americans, they're in a place we can't reach them to arrest them. i think under the laws of war, we can use lethal force as we did today. it's not a source of immunity

having a u.s. passport. more than that, you join a militant organization. it would be different if we had arrested them and the administration sought to execute them. in these stateless areas and in this new warfare we're in against nation states, but against these organizational enemies, i think it is legal under the law of war. >> who is next? in many ways, it's like the domestic ten most wanted. who now does the u.s. have their sights set on in terms of priority? who do we most want? >> i think al awlaki and al zahari were the top two. al zawahiri because he was one

of the pioneers of 9/11. al awlaki had the window into the western mind and the idea of recruiting and self-radicalizing people. those were our top two targets before today. and now al zawahiri is on the top of the list. >> thank you for coming by, appreciate it. >> you're welcome. you can agree 2011 was a bad year for terrorists, what does that mean for the rest of us in the years ahead? alka-seltzer pls fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your stuffy nose. [ deep breath ] thank you! that's the cold truth! every time a local business opens its doors or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's not just good for business. it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities.

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osama bin ladin, anwar al awlaki, big names, big deaths for the u.s. leon panetta summed it up this way. >> this has been a bad year for terrorists. you know, we just have seen a major blow, another major blow to al qaeda, someone who was truly an operational arm of al qaeda in this node of yemen. >> what does a bad ye for terrorists mean for the rest of us. we want to ask peter bergen, fran towsend and john miller. what is different now than the

hours before al awlaki was killed? peter? >> clearly, this guy was able to recruit people in britain and the united states. i'm not convinced -- some people have said he's osama bin ladin number two. i think that's overdoing it. in terms of reaction, in was no reaction when osama bin ladin was killed. we're four months after bin ladin's death. the idea that we should get hysterically worried about awlaki's death -- the fbi and dhs have put out a statement. >> it's a little cya, right? >> part of due diligence. does it mean something is imminent? of course not. >> fran, when you look at it, it just seems to me that this man's basic tool, al awlaki's basic tool is the internet. he's still alive on the internet. what do we really have here?

>> that's right, candy. and he has these tapes, these millions of tapes especially in the u.k. -- >> that sell well. >> and they'll sell better now. i think he had become more than just that, more than a charismatic figure. he had become a leader, which led to his targeting. he not only inspired and encouraged nadal hassan, but he also had the christmas day bomb he and the cargo plane attempted bombing. >> who at least drew inspiration, at the very least? >> what authorities are saying, he was recruiting them, organizing these plots, he had become the chief external operations guy, and that's what leads to his targeting today. >> peter king spoke to it, peter bergen was talking about, he's chairman of the homeland security committee as you well know. al awlaki was operationally more important than bin ladin. peter, he thinks that's overdoing it? how important is this, in terms

of the war on terror? are we getting there is sort of the question? >> i think peter king makes a good point there, which is, if you have an inspirational messenger who's punching through in terms of the message, and getting people to come across in ways that al zawahiri are not. in the post 9/11 world we saw four plots for attacking the u.s. a year. when they started targeting with youtube effectively, that went to eight plots, nine plots, 11 plots. you can track the cases of al awlaki to 20 arrests. or the times square bomber, he said when i heard al awlaki

talking, i thought he was talking to me. >> the beauty or the awfulness of the internet, it never goes away. >> when you remove the physical awlaki from the virtual awlaki, you take cases like the printer bomb case, where awlaki and others were devising this plot specifically because operator error is where they were failing. they said, let a machine do it. when you take the abdulmutallab case or the underwear bomber from christmas 2009, you say, was it anwar al awlaki who seduced him or the video? >> the u.s. was within reach of strategically defeating al qaeda, leon panetta said in july. are you in agreement?

when will we know that al qaeda is just operationally not a factor any more? >> well, i mean, al qaeda hasn't had a successful attack in the west since july 7th, 2005, and hasn't had a successful attack in the united states since september 11th. when he says strategic defeat, it doesn't mean they've moved on? >> right. not only panetta, petraeus said something very similar. world war ii did not end when every nazi was killed, but it's a different kind of conflict. the point is,we can't kill every member of al qaeda and say that's a victory. at a certain point they become -- essentially they're less and less relevant over time. there are still marxists somewhere on the planet. >> let's talk about the u.s./yemen relationship. i find all this fascinating.

the president comes back from recovering his injuries that were from anti-government protesters, and within days, suddenly al awlaki who the u.s. has been looking for for years is killed. it kind of looks like a trophy head to the u.s. look what i can do for you. and again puts the u.s. a little bit on the side of a leader with a very bad track record. do you think that's what's going on? was the timing a coincidence? >> i do you think it was a coincidence. i know that sounds odd, you talk to intelligence officials on both sides of this, both u.s. folks and yemeni folks, they'll tell you they've been working on this over the last three months. over the last three months, the intelligence sharing was better than any time in recent history, that this was a building up overtime, that -- these things don't just happen in days when somebody arrives. it really rerequires the intelligence seating and sources and surveillance so you build

the pressure, and make sure when you release a hell fire missile, it's at the right time, the right target. >> sure. but you have to get that target. obviously someone on the ground is tracking him. maybe we have great sophisticated ways, it seems to me that this does effect how the u.s. deals with the president, or does it? >> if you take fran's time line, the three months this was wokked on is the time he was away. i wouldn't read too much or too little into that. i would add the context that the day before the christmas 2009 bombing, there were military strikes targeting awlaki and other leaders within 24 hours of that happening. so he's not a new target, and they have hit for him before. as we learned in the case of osama bin ladin, sometimes you have to hit for a target, in a lot of times in a lot of places before you get it.

>> i have to stop it there, thank you all so much, john miller, fran towsend, peter bergen thank you. up next, the richest self-made woman in the world. progresso... i love your new loaded potato with bacon. that's what we like to hear. where was i? oh right... our rich & hearty soups.. people love the thick cut carrots... we do too! where was i? progresso. right, our new rich & heart soups... [ ring, ring ] progresso... switch our phone service? [ ring, ring ] [ ring, ring ] ...no, i think we're pretty happy with our phones. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.

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welcome back. here's the latest news you need to know right now. the fbi and department of homeland security is warning

today's drone strike that killed anwar al awlaki may increase the overall near term threat to the u.s. homeland. we learned today that senate majority leader harry reid's wife is undergoing treatment for stage two breast cancer. they appreciate people's thoughts and concerns and ask for respect and privacy. they've been married since 1959 and have five children. a 240 point drop ended a bad day for the dow industrials and a horrible quarter on wall street. over july, august and september, the dow lost 12% of its value. the nasdaq lost 13%, and the s&p 500 was down 14%. but one expert says china's rich have defied the global financial crisis, including the richest self-made woman in the world. the who run report which ranks china's wealthiest individuals, identifies her as woo yen-jun.

she's worth $6.6 billion. anderson cooper 360 is coming up at the top of the hour. it was richest woman, i know you're the richest man, anderson. >> ah, yes. >> that's tomorrow. >> $6.4 billion? i can't imagine, that's amazing. breaking news obviously tonight on the program. the american turn terrorist, what awlaki was planning when he was taken out by a drone in yemen. he had hoped to launch a terror attack on the united states using weapons of mass destruction. day four of the michael jackson death trial. testimony from a first responder, michael jackson showed no signs of life by the time they arrived. a live report from los angeles, also talk to dr. sanjay gupta. a student has been suspended in the school district of jamey

rodemeier. we'll tell you why the student has been suspended. >> 19 minutes from now, we will be there. next up, the political fallout of today's drone strike. , gas and bloating. with three strains of good bacteria to help balance your colon. you had me at "probiotic." [ female announcer ] phillips' colon health. the two trains and a bus rider. the "i'll sleep when it's done" academic. for 80 years, we've been inspired by you. and we've been honored to walk with you to help you get where you want to be. ♪ because your moment is now. let nothing stand in your way. learn more at keller.edu.

we have our cnn pentagon correspondent barbara star who has new details about today's

u.s. drone strike in yemen that killed tristan war al awlaki. >> we know it was code named operation troy. for the last two weeks the cia and the joint special operations command had kept a very close eye on anwar al awlaki. they knew where he was, they were essentially waiting to get a clean hit, no civilians nearby. no undue damage. that's what happened today after keeping their eyes on him for two weeks. this has turned out to be not all that dissimilar from the osama bin ladin assassination. they were leading some of the targeting efforts to go after him, working hand in hand with the cia. we know that troops, special operations, special operations from jsoc were on stand by ready

to go into yemen if there had been a downed pilot or any u.s. personnel at risk. they were not called in, but jsoc was into this all the way hand in hand with the cia. candy? >> so i think -- i have this feeling, barbara, like so many things, we'll be hearing more and more details coming out. thank you so much for that. joining us now to mull this over from a political point of view. i have been fascinated all day by this dancing on the head of the pin that the administration is doing. which is, we got him, we got him, but really the yemenis did this. it was our drone, so we killed him with our drone. but even that you get on background about tell me why? >> i think part of it is they want to keep some distance from the yemenis, this could be perceived inside yemen by the

people of yemen as foreign intervention. well, it kind of is. >> we're all winking and nodding. they must know too. >> there's a concern about political instability there. and then there's this line about not acknowledging covert operations. there's, i think the instability inside yemen is the big concern. and then there's the fact that we killed an american, and it gets into the legalities of how do you explain that. >> right, to americans. >> there's also a discomfort in this administration to overemphasize this. just like with bin ladin, they didn't want to overemphasize this. >> obama's going to get the political credit for this, it's only going to go so far. people already approve of how he's handling foreign policy.

>> unless this is going to create jobs. >> the drone hit -- >> this may not be helpful. you take me to my next point. i want to show you this cnn orc poll on approval of how obama's handling things. terrorism, 62%. libya, 52%. foreign affairs, 50%. and then economy on down the line, unemployment 37. it drops, and we saw nothing from the osama bin ladin death. do you expect anything from this? >> he got two or three weeks from the bin ladin death. on strong leadership, and august came, strong leadership, he was killed. he was looked -- the country saw him as weak. behind those poll numbers, another number in that poll, 90% of the country thinks the economy is not where it should be. that's a number that hasn't been that high since december of 2008. it's a terrifying number for the administration, who came in thinking they would have been able to have fixed it.

now we're back to square one right now. >> that's what voters will vote on. but expect to hear the president tout all these incidences on the campaign trail. >> he's a strong decisive leader. it would seem to me he ought to get some bump up here? >> but as michael said, the economy is so bad and people feel it, until they feel their own personal prospects improving, all these other things he's doing are not going to matter. >> i want to -- there were a lot of republican candidates today that say really glad we got him, the president should be given credit. there was a split along the campaign trail. i want to play you a couple bites. take a listen. >> al awlaki was born here, he's an american citizen. he was never tried or charged for any crimes. nobody knows if he ever killed anybody. >> any american who actively

advocates killing americans, places themselves in our constitution as a traitor. the american who the president authorized killing in yemen was an enemy combatant. >> ron paul a plus for consistency. >> right. >> this is what we would have expected. he's on the side of the aclu. and i do think that there must be some concern as you suggested earlier. it's just kind of a little icky, this guy was killing americans, encouraging the killing of americans. and yet db. >> you heard 2 at the white house today, in the briefing, there was a lot of skepticism, a lot of demand for justification for killing this individual, when four years ago we won the have heard that. >> the bottom line is, if you watch the republican debates right now, they are the only debates happening.

how much does foreign policy occupy, not at all. it's just not where the american people's minds are. >> panetta did come out and say, totally justified, not even a problem. >> you remember that debate a couple debates ago, when rick perry was asked the question -- ron paul's not going to pick up a lot of votes for his position. >> they try, but, you know. >> but a plus for consistency. michael, julie, jessica stay with us. are you happy with your current economic situation? our bet is you're not. another g or hires another employee, it's not just good for business. it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities. that's why we extended $7.8 billion to small businesses across the country so far this year. because the more we help them, the more we help make opportunity possible.

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americans remain disgusted with the economy. and a new poll shows 90% say conditions are poor. the economy is the number one issue for 2012. all of us agree, what does that say about the president's chances of winning a second term. i'm saying that at the white house, as you mentioned earlier, this is a panic number to me. 90% of voters of america say economy is in a poor condition. if he won, if these numbers hold or anything like these numbers hold, it would be historic for him to win? >> no question about it. and this race will be a dogfight, they know it. the strategy is a little far out to know, the strategy is a dogfight to position him against washington amazingly, even though he's the president. >> ronald reagan did it very well, by the way. >> it's following the reagan

pattern. he's fighting a do nothing congress which is it now this jobs agendaing and also to run on his personal likability. this is a man of character. americans like him as a guy who works hard for them, even if they don't think he's getting the job done yet, he's trying to. to put those two things together to try to get a second term. >> julie, is there -- there's also a part of this that is, they're hoping for someone they can paint as crazy? >> right, exactly. >> there's me or this crazy guy. >> they're hoping for the worst opponent possible. if president obama can just keep his approval ratings around 50% and show some limited. even limited progress in the economy. and raise this billion dollars, he's planning to win it, it doesn't matter who he ran against. he's going to need that billion dollars. he's going to need a really bad opponent. it's going to be a fight. >> when you hear the obama campaign talking now, there are

things like demographics, everything but the things we'll end up deciding in this election. they have to have better numbers in this year. i don't think they can win with 90% of the country. it's almost impossible. they have to have better numbers by next spring. they have to be able to convince the american people that the alternative is worse. you're not happy with what you got now, but if you pick this guy or this woman, it's going to be worse than it has to be. >> the model people -- democrats keep pointing to is the harry reid senate race that just happened in 2010. harry reid's numbers were terrible, but he was running against somebody they were able to paint as whackadoodle crazy. >> north carolina, they're thinking, we can get minority, black and latino turnout up. we may be able to take virginia even if the headlines -- >> it's the new voters, the ones that weren't old enough to vote last time around. it's latinos. it's minorities, and it's the

gay, lesbian, transgender community. that's where they're going to sort of pump up that vote. it's not going to be enough, as we know. he has to get the swing voters back. i want to turn you to the republican race rs because it's fun. this is a romney ad going directly at governor perry. >> who supports governor perry's decision to give in state tuition to illegal immigrants? >> governor perry and the state of texas. >> the president of mexico -- they all get cameos, president obama, nancy pelosi, harry reid and the president of mexico. he's tieing rick perry -- this is fascinating to me. the most conservative front-runner is governor perry. and romney is going at him trying to tie him to pelosi and

reid and the mexican president. >> when he got in the race, you thought he could coast a while as the front-runner and establish himself, and what romney is showing you can't coast. they really -- he's being hit so hard right now, he's going to have to go negative, hard against romney, and i think we'll see that in the coming weeks. >> it will be a little counter intuitive. everyone says perry's too conservative to win. on immigration, to win the general. on immigration, you see he has some middle ground here. this is one area you really could move to the center. >> i want to end with this, newt gingrich speaking about undocumented workers. >> how many of you have ever tracked a package on either ups or fedex? this is not a theory, right? the federal government has somewhere between 11 and 20 million illegal immigrants we can't find? and i'm