Skip to main content

tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  September 30, 2011 8:00pm-9:00pm EDT

8:00 pm
of them a package. >> somehow outsourcing. exactly. >> jessica, julie, michael, thank you. that's all from us tonight. remember, our new time slot beginning next week, 6:00 p.m. eastern, monday through friday. "anderson cooper 360" srts right now. candy, thanks very much. good evening, everyone, we start with breaking news tonight. a new fbi bulletin warning about possible retaliation for the killing of anwar al awlaki. one of america's most wanted terror leaders. we now have a name for it, operation troy. weeks of surveillance, marine harrier jets flying. waiting for possible ground operations. also tonight, breaking details, exclusive to 360 on what this would be killer was capable of. also we're learning how saudi arabia figured into his takedown. our own fran towsend has details on that.
8:01 pm
what her sources are saying about the chemical weapons he wanted to use on america, the country he was born in, the country that educated him, and early this morning, the country that hunted him down. around 3:00 a.m. eastern time, the u.s. launches a joint operation with the yemenis, a car believed to be carrying al awlaki is targeted. a u.s. drone fires a missile. and one of america's top terror targets is dead. >> the death of awlaki is a major blow to al qaeda's most active operational affiliate. >> anwar al awlaki was a long way from home. born in new mexico he radicalized and became a leader in al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. he was a top terror recruiter, awlaki's presence was felt in the ft. hood massacre. the alleged shooter, major nadal hassan is believed to have exchanged e-mails with awlaki before the rampage that left 13
8:02 pm
people dead. awlaki is also linked to other terror plots, including the would-be underwear bomber, the plot to blow up u.s. cargo planes, and the attempt to set off a bomb in new york's times square. >> i consider al qaeda in the arabian peninsulas with awlaki as a leader within that organization probably the most significant risk to the u.s. home land. >> we had always had tremendous concern that after getting bin ladin that someone like awlaki was a primary target because of his continuing efforts to plan attacks against the united states. >> awlaki justifies such attacks saying americans are at war with islam. >> with the american invasion of iraq and continued u.s. aggression against muslims -- and i eventually came to the conclusion that jihad against america is binding upon myself, just as it is binding on every
8:03 pm
other able muslim. >> the pentagon is saying little about the drone strike that ended his war, except that three others died alongside him, including another radical american who was the producer of the jihady online magazine called inspire. the notion of killing americans instead of bringing them to justice, not sitting well with some. >> awlaki was born here, he's an american citizen. he was never charged or tried for any crimes. >> the american civil liberties union agrees, saying awlaki's killing violates both u.s. and international law. he placed himself outside american justice, but not beyond american air power. we'll talk about the legality of all this in a little bit. first, more details of the attacks. we mentioned at the top, fran towsend is learning new details about him, and what other countries were involved in this takedown. she joins us along with peter bergen. fran, i know you've been working your sources, you have new information tonight.
8:04 pm
what have you learned? >> it's interesting, we heard -- we remember the cargo plot. the saudi government handed us the tracking numbers. a senior counter terrorism official confirmed to me today, that as part of that plot, anwar al awlaki had decided to use ricin or cyanide in part of the target. he volunteered himself as a more and more increasingly important target. >> you also have new information about who helped the united states track him down, correct? >> that's right. >> you know, the saudi government has a very strong counter terrorism service, and the united states works pretty closely with them. they did provide us those tracking numbers in the cargo plane case. i'm told that this saudi group
8:05 pm
was instrumental in helping provide target information about awlaki. not surprising, the same sources that would have given them the tracking numbers would have had access to the inner workings of al qaeda. >> the president of yemen, didn't he go to saudi arabia after he was injured? several months ago? >> that's right, the interesting thing, an american counter terrorism official said to me, you know, the counter terrorism relationship between yemeni and the united states has gotten increasingly better over the last three months. as you point out, anderson, that's about the time saleh went to saudi arabia, having suffered serious burns in the attack on him. he went further, many yemeni officials said to me, we began to provide serious targeting information about al awlaki about a month ago, this is an operation that's built t intelligence picture of al awlaki's whereabouts bs and confederates over time that enabled today's assassination.
8:06 pm
>> barbara starr, what are you hearing? >> it looks like it was in the last two weeks that the cia and u.s. military were able to hone in on where he was hiding in yemen. we are told that it was a joint operation now between the cia and the joint special operations command. where have you heard that word before? those were the military troops that went and killed osama bin ladin on that raid into pakistan. jsoc they are called. jsoc and the cia working together to use drones and airplanes. jsoc providing we are told the final targeting information to really focus in over the last two weeks on where he was, what his movements were, and getting ready to take that final hit. jsoc troops also were on stand by, as a backup force to go in if that was necessary. they did not have to go in, we are told. but this is the latest example of the cia and military troops
8:07 pm
in the united states working hand in hand on these high target operations around the world, anderson. >> peter, how significant a blow to al qaeda cen federal, but also to al qaeda in the arabian peninsula is this? >> i think al qaeda in the arabian peninsula has been under pressure for some time. u.s. special forces in yemen. several dozen of them who have been basically hunting these guys down. we've seen a number of strikes, drone strikes before against al awlaki. i think the group's been under pressure for a while, taking this guy out. his ability to communicate directly with the ft. hood shooter, and encouraging him to kill fellow americans speaks for itself. his ability to mobilize english speaking would be or want to be terrorists in england, canada or britain. i would caveat that with, this
8:08 pm
guy had no profile in much of the muslim world. the fact that the fbi and dhs sort of said there might be reprisals, that's kind of to be expected, they would release that kind of statement. the fact is, we didn't see a big response after the death of osama bin ladin who is a much, much more important figure. i doubt we'll see anything really significant from al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. they have other problems, they're very much on the run right now. >> they're very much on the run? >> yeah. >> jill doherty, it's interesting to -- what fran was talking about is, the yemeni president had just returned to the country after giving the medical treatment in saudi arab arabia. he's looking to the u.s. to help him stay in power. how much should we read into the timing of all this? >> i don't think you should real read a lot into it. the president might want to try to give the impression that he's back and then suddenly to get al awlaki thanks to him.
8:09 pm
there's no indication at this point that he gave any significant information. i think as fran has been pointing out. these operations take quite a long time, and the research and looking at where he was took a long time. to say that suddenly it all came together because saleh's back. i don't think it holds water. >> fran, you actually had met with saleh back when you were in government, trying to convince him to go after al awlaki. what was that like? >> well, look, you know saleh, you had a tenuous confederation that supported him. he was reluctant to go at risk with any of them. awlaki had strong tribal support. he was teaching this english class. the guy that was with him who was killed went to yemen to take these english classes. we knew they were really radicalization courses. they were recruitment and
8:10 pm
training. we told saleh that, and wanted him to go after al awlaki, and he never did. >> there was also an attempt on his life with the drone track earlier this summer that failed. the u.s. reportedly has at least three drone bases in the region. how important have these bases been? >> they've been incredibly important. and we've seen increasing use of them, of course, in the federally administrated tribal areas of pakistan. now, this more widespread use i think frankly our allies prefer the use of drones than they do to having u.s. troops on the ground. >> do we know how this guy got radicalized? he was born in the united states, do we know what occurred? >> well, you know, i've talked to the imam at the mosque where awlaki lived in virginia in 2002. at that time he wasn't described as a mill tan the. what may have turned him much
8:11 pm
more radical is the 13e8 he spent in a yemeni prison in 2006. we've seen repeatedly whether it was al zawahiri, the leader or leader of iraq, it may have been the year he spent in prison. >> much like the jihadists who came out of egypt being radicalized in egyptian prisons. >> let us know what you think. follow us on twitter, @anderson cooper. is killing an american terrorist overseas justifiable? or is it illegal? extra judicial murder? does it fall on some new gray area? the legal angle on all of this. we'll talk about that on twitter. most people saying, yes, it's okay to kill him, some people represented ron paul, for instance, saying no, it wasn't.
8:12 pm
crime and punishment, more damaging testimony against dr. conrad murray in the michael jackson death trial. his time line of michael jackson's last moments, and what paramedics say he did not tell them when they arrived on the scene. we just got access of never before seen video of casey anthony. images the judge in her murder trial would not let the jury see. why, and why we're seeing it now? rains and a bus rider. the "i'll sleep when it's done" academic. for 80 years, we've been inspired by you. and we've been honored to walk with you to help you get where you want to be. ♪ because your moment is now. let nothing stand in your way. learn more at keller.edu.
8:13 pm
[ woman ] my heart medication isn't some political game. [ man ] our retirement isn't a simple budget line item. [ man ] i worked hard. i paid into my medicare. [ man ] and i earned my social security. [ woman ] now, instead of cutting waste and loopholes, washington wants to cut our benefits? that wasn't the agreement. [ male announcer ] join the members of aarp and tell washington to stop cuts to our medicare and social security benefits. [ cellphone rings ]
8:14 pm
cut! [ monica ] i have a small part in a big movie. i thought we'd be on location for 3 days, it's been 3 weeks. so, i used my citi simplicity card to pick up a few things. and i don't have to worry about a late fee. which is good... no! bigger! bigger! [ monica ] ...because i don't think we're going anywhere for a while. [ male announcer ] write your story with the new citi simplicity card. no late fees. no penalty rate. no worries. get started at citisimplicity.com.
8:15 pm
an fbi retaliation for the killing of two al qaeda terrorists. should it make a difference in how to go after them, the fact that they were americans? erin burnett asked leon pan ett about it today. >> the fact that it was a cia drone which killed him, is possibly illegal, because he didn't have a trial and he's an american citizen? are you confident that you're clear legally here? >> this individual was clearly a
8:16 pm
terrorist. and, yes, he was a citizen, if you're a terrorist, you're a terrorist. and that means that we have the ability to go after those who would threaten to attack the united states and kill americans. there's no question that the authority and the ability to go after a terrorist is there. >> that's one statement you heard earlier. when it was known he was being targeted, awlaki's father tried to take them to court. there's a law on the books, i think it's been in effect since the 1970s. banning the u.s. government from assassinating individuals. how does the u.s. government legally justify killing a citizen now? >> because we're at war. it's as simple as that. >> congress authorized the use of military force against al qaeda. that law is still in effect, it
8:17 pm
was the authorization for the war in iraq and afghanistan. and as an active member of al qaeda, this guy is fair game under our laws. >> so if he was a member of another terrorist group, not al qaeda, would it still be legal? >> not under this use of force authorization. there are various findings, the president can issue an intelligence finding relating to other people. this post 9/11 authorization only applies to al qaeda. just to answer your broader question. this ban on assassinations is really pretty much irrelevant at this point. so many presidents since the '70s have directed -- whether it's ronald reagan trying to kill gadhafi, or the post 9/11 osama bin ladin. that law is technically still on the books, but presidents have long since figured things around.
8:18 pm
>> awlaki was put on this hit list two years ago. a president can do that now? issue an order for anyone he deem deems a threat to the united states? >> that's where you start to get into gray areas. the fact that there is not, and probably never will be a legal test of this authority becomes relevant. i mean, i don't know where the outside limit of this is. the fact that this was an al qaeda member in yemen seems like they're on very firm ground. suppose he was in toronto, in baltimore. i don't think we could use a missile in toronto. but i think legally we would be covered under this authority. it seems to be very, very broad. >> isn't this, though also a -- it's a war on terror if that's
8:19 pm
the term in a can go on endlessly. is there no time limit on this war? >> there is no time limit on the legislation. that's one of the concerns that's been raised. i mean, after all, 9/11 was more than 10 years ago, we're still fighting al qaeda, the war in afghanistan is still going, the war in iraq is not over either. there's no limit on the law. whether at some point congress will decide to formally end the war or a court will step in, i don't know. >> i don't want to go down the road of hypotheticals too far, would it be okay for the u.s. government to -- somebody is a -- is believed to be an al qaeda sympathizer, believed to be wanting to do harm to the united states, has made e-mail communication with al qaeda, would it be okay to kill that person in the united states? >> that's what we don't know. the contrast is so dramatic, what we require to execute someone in the united states is a very elaborate system of due
8:20 pm
process. here, the president signs a piece of paper, and it's a death sentence. and it's unreviewable by the courts. that does appear to be what the law is now. so far, the number of people targeted and the kind of people targeted have not generated any considerable protests. i don't think there are going to be any protests about this killing. as you point out, you know, the extrapolati extrapolation, the other possibilities are really chilling. >> it was interesting that awlaki's father tried to stop this from happening. the family doesn't have any kind of legal recourse at this point. they're not suing the u.s. government, are they? >> i don't think so. i think in theory, his estate could sue. but there are so many barriers to that, i think it's just a law school hypothetical. it's never going to happen. if they wanted to tap his phone in yemen, they would have to get
8:21 pm
a warrant from the surveillance court. if they want to kill him, they don't need any warrant at all. >> we're having the discussion on twitter right now now, @andersoncooper. i want to go to a man who's been on the front lines in many ways, a top fbi special agent. he investigated the east african bombings, co author of "the black banners" an inside story of 9/11 and the war on al qaeda. you were involved in interrogating terrorists. how important was awlaki within the arabian peninsula? >> he became an inspirational figure. his focus and force come to the recruitment of terrorists in the west. especially in the united states and united kingdom. we see that again and again, with most of the operations that
8:22 pm
took place in the west and the united states. since 2009 for example most of that if not all, that took place in the united states were not planned and org organized in pakistan, that was shifted to the arabian peninsula of al qaeda, shifted to yemen because of al awlaki. he's an excellent english speaker, very knowledgeable about the culture, he used the new media, and the internet. he single handedly created the threat that we have today, the home grown terrorism. people who never joined al qaeda, never went to the training camps in afghanistan. however, they were able to read inspire magazine that was published by samir cannes. >> list and listen to his sermon and look at the videos produced over the internet and join the organization. >> it's amazing that this guy and this other one, both who
8:23 pm
were killed today were sort of at the epicenter of a lot of the recent attempts in the united states. >> yeah, absolutely, and his influence goes way beyond the arabian peninsula. the underwear bomber is a perfect example. abdulmutallab attends a mosque where al awlaki is imam. he gets recruited by awlaki in yemen to blow up an airplane over detroit christmas '09. if we didn't kill him today, in five, ten years from now, it could have been the next bin ladin. >> it's interesting, i've seen some of this stuff on the internet, i don't see him as being a huge great charismatic figure. what was it, do you think? >> it was his ability to communicate al qaeda's rhetoric in english.
8:24 pm
the united states, a kid who's watching al qaeda propaganda videos in the basement, his mother can't understand and can't relate to him. >> was it illegal to kill him, do you think? >> i think so. this individual declared war on the united states many times, he was involved in every plot from 2009 until today, major nadal hassan, the times square bomber, the cargo plot. and you name it, all these plots have been linked to him. >> you actually interrogated or were involved with getting, bringing to justice a lot of the al qaeda in the arabian peninsula leaders who were sent to prison in yemen and escaped. >> we actually assisted the yemeni government in the prosecution of all these individuals, and we arrested many of them after a series of
8:25 pm
operations like we did in yemen with the military, they were planning to do a few attacks, targets. >> they're still out there. >> we prosecuted all of them, we were able to put them in jail, and dig a tunnel and escape all of them, to include the leader until today. the leaders of al qaeda and the arabian peninsula. >> so is al qaeda in the arabian peninsula going to be the driving force behind the attacks to come? >> regionally i don't think the death of al awlaki will affect the peninsula. i think it's more important for us here in the united states and the west. if you look at al qaeda as a franchise, he was the person that was handling the operations in the west and in the united states. so from that perspective, he's extremely important to us. but when it comes to the middle east, when it comes to yemen, he's pretty irrelevant, and i think everyone in yemen and in the region will look at the
8:26 pm
assassination today within the context of what's happening today in yemen. >> peter bergen earlier said they're on the run, basically, they have bigger problems given all that's going on in yes, ma'amen? >> absolutely. the regional group is on the run, because they have the battles going on in afghan and many areas down south. also, al awlaki's group has been on the run recently. for example, they were supposed to do an inspire magazine edition for the 9/11 anniversary. that was late more than 16 days. that gives you an idea about the way samir khan, and al awlaki has been living recently. >> thank you for having me. another fascinating day of testimony in the michael jackson manslaughter trial. the paramedic who responded to the 911 call said it was too late by the time he arrived. the latest in the amanda knox murder appeal. she could be days away from freedom.
8:27 pm
8:28 pm
ford fusion has now been named the most dependable midsize car by jd power and associates. we go to kimberly. any thoughts on this news? i have no idea what's goin on. we are out. what was that? they told me it's the most dependable midsize sedan and they ran back into their little box.
8:29 pm
8:30 pm
still ahead tonight, a paramedic delivering damning testimony in the trial of conrad murray. why his story just did not add up. an attorney for amanda knox today blasted prosecutors, saying they decided his client was guilty regardless of logic and region. knox and her forrer boyfriend are appealing their convictions for the 2007 of meredith kir mucher. they're expected to give final statements to the court monday. 15 people are now dead from eating cantaloupe contaminated with listeria. an additional 84 illnesses have
8:31 pm
been reported in 20 different states. on wall street, stocks finished one of their worst quarters since the 2008 financial crisis. in the past three months, the dow dropped 12%, the s&p 500 tumbled 14%. the first lady slips out to run an errand. a casually dressed michelle obama was spotted yesterday pubbing her own cart at target. amazingly the store manager tells cnn almost no one recognized her. which could be why the white house says trips like these are not uncommon. >> strange to me you guys say cart, makes me think you should have a horse attached to it. >> what do you say? >> a shopping trolley. >> seems like a lot of work, shopping trolley. cart. >> trolley. >> let's call the whole thing off. >> we call it a shopping wagon.
8:32 pm
a shot we found on youtube, a guy's kitchen got trashed while he was away at work. it became pretty clear who the suspect was. take a look. >> this is what i come home to, trash has been gone through, it's my fault, i left it kind of full. my question is, who did it. who's the culprit. what about tank? i wonder if tank had anything to do with it. >> tank's like, don't look at me. >> poor tank. he's not very smart. tank is an english mastiv. there you go. much more serious stuff ahead. including crime and punishment, day 4 of the michael jackson death trial. another prosecution witness
8:33 pm
may have backfired, we'll tell you why. the day that caylee's body was found. the trial judge said it was too inflammatory for jurors to see, tonight you're going to see it for the first time. ♪ [ male announcer ] what is the future of fuel? the debate is over. ♪ lexus hybrid drive technology is designed to optimize any fuel source on the planet. even those we don't use yet. because when you pursue perfection, you don't just engineer a future-proof hybrid system.
8:34 pm
you engineer amazing. ♪ but i've learned a lot from patients who use flexpen. flexpen comes pre-filled with the insulin i take and i can dial the exact dose of insulin i need. i live my life on the go and need an on-the-go insulin. i don't need to carry a cooler with flexpen. novolog is a fast-acting, man-made insulin used to control high blood sugar in adults and children with diabetes. do not inject novolog if you do not plan to eat within 5 to 10 minutes after injection to avoid low blood sugar. tell your healthcare provider about all medicines you take and all of your medical conditions, including if you are pregnant or breastfeeding. the most common side effect of novolog is low blood sugar. other possible side effects include reactions at the injection site. get medical help right away if you experience serious allergic reactions, body rash, trouble with breathing, fast heartbeat or sweating. ask your healthcare provider about novolog flexpen today. learn more about the different insulins available in flexpen
8:35 pm
at myflexpen.com. flexpen, insulin delivery that goes with you.
8:36 pm
crime and punishment tonight, michael jackson had flat lined by the time rescuers arrived. that was testimony from a paramedic. the first responder testified he never saw any signs of life in jackson and that the details of jackson's personal doctor conrad murray gave him about medications he had taken and when he stopped breathing, they just didn't add up. the doctor is now on trial for manslaughter, faces up to four years in prison if convicted.
8:37 pm
here's randy kay with ti kaye w report. >> reporter: the paramedic needed to know how long jackson hadn't been breathing, what if anything he had taken. >> did you ask dr. murray how long the patient had been in this condition? >> i did ask him that? >> what did dr. murray say in response to that question? >> it just happened right when i called you. >> in your mind what did that mean? >> it meant to me, this was a patient we had a really good chance of saving zbh true, if paramedics had the real story. instead, jackson's personal physician told half truths. >> what observations specifically did you make that led you to feel as if there was inconsistent information that you had received. >> when we first moved the patient his skin was very cool
8:38 pm
to the touch. when i took a first glance at him, his eyes were open. they were dry and his pupils were dilated. when i hooked up the ekg machine, it was flat lined. >> no heartbeat and skin cool to the touch, told paramedics more than just the five minutes it took them to arrive had passed. murray was frantic. >> i asked what his underlying health condition was, he did not respond. >> i asked again what his underlying health condition was, he did not respond. i think it was the third time, he said nothing, nothing. he has nothing. and simply that did not add up to me. >> here's something else that didn't add up. jackson appeared thin, underweight. he also noticed an iv stand in the bedroom, an oxygen tank and medications on the nightstand. he asked murray what drugs jackson had taken. >> at that point he said, no,
8:39 pm
he's not taking anything. and then he followed that up with i just gave him a little bit of lorazepam to sleep. >> did you follow up with anything else, dr. murray? did you give him anything else? >> i asked, was there anything else? is there anything else? and no, that's it, just a little bit of lorazepam. >> paramedics would learn later that wasn't true, murray had given him propofol which caused his death. >> did dr. murray ever mention to you having administered propofol to michael jackson? >> no, he did not. >> did conrad murray ever mention the word propofol to you during the time that you were at the location or in his presence? >> no, he did not. >> the defense tried to ask if that would have made a difference? >> isn't it true that you would have done absolutely nothing different because you could not, had dr. murray even mentioned the propofol?
8:40 pm
>> objection, lack of foundation, calls for speculation. >> sustained. >> senniff said he saw no change in jackson's condition from the time he got to the scene, at 12:57 emergency responders wanted to declare michael jackson dead. >> if there's nothing further, we're going to call it here. time of death is 12:57. >> senniff says murray insisted jackson be transported to the hospital and not declared dead. after loading him in the ambulance, senniff went back inside to find murray in the bedroom. >> he has a bag in hand and is picking up items from the floor. >> where is he located when you see him with the bag in his handpicking up items from the floor? >> near the nightstand? >> on the far side of the bed? >> on the far side of the bed? >> the defense warned against jumping to conclusions. >> did you see what dr. murray
8:41 pm
was in fact picking up? >> i did not. >> isn't it true he was picking up his wallet and his glasses? >> i don't know, sir, the bed was blocking where his hands were. >> jackson was transported to the hospital, with dr. conrad murray in the ambulance at his side. he was pronounced dead upon arrival. >> a former patient of dr. murray's also testified today, what did he say? >> anderson, his name is robert russell, and he was called by the prosecution, but really in the end, he may have helped the defense actually. because he may have helped the defense more, because he testified that dr. murray's treatment and advice saved his life. he said murray put stints in his heart and helped him change his bad habits, this really framed dr. murray as a caring and competent doctor. a competent cardiologist, the patient did tell the court that he felt abandoned when dr. murray closed his practice to go work for michael jackson.
8:42 pm
that is really what the prosecution wanted to get at. the guy, anderson went on to say, how well his stints from dr. murray had held up. murray knew it, when the guy left the courtroom, dr. murray put his hand over his heart and gave him a slight bow. >> interesting. let's dig deeper with dr. sanjay gupta and mark geragos both in los angeles this evening. the paramedic said i got to the house within five minutes of getting the call. when he arrived, dr. murray told him jackson went down just before he made the 911 call. how long would a body have to be dead in order to be in that state? >> well, it's sort of interesting the language they used, anderson, first to go from
8:43 pm
being down to actually dying. somebody who goes down from a cardiac arrest to actually doing, that can be several minutes, and then at the time that someone dies, several things happen, a lot of the muscles relax immediately in the bodies that's why the pupils dilate, that can happen pretty quickly. as far as the body feeling cool to the touch, that's depending on lots of different things, including the temperature in the bedroom, the overall status of the body before the patient has died. that's a little bit harder to pinpoint. it would be at least several minutes for the body to start to cool down, the pupils dilating quickly after that all happens. >> the time line that the paramedic laid out, they didn't match up with the events we heard from jackson's attorney yesterday. he said when he arrived at the house, he saw murray and the security guard removing jackson from the bed. yesterday the security guard said that was happening while he was making the 911 call. how important do you think that
8:44 pm
is to the defense? >> i think it is important, we talked about it yesterday, anderson. if you took a look at the cross-examination that happened yesterday, it didn't seem significant until you then heard the testimony today. they were laying it out, it's one of the reasons i say, we shouldn't jump into this kind of espn analysis of who's ahead until you see how it unfolds. the defense knew what they were doing. they knew it wasn't going to play. they knew what the witnesses were coming up, especially the paramedic today, because he's testified before. so they were laying the groundwork for, hey, this stuff from the bodyguard just doesn't fit with what the other witnesses say. >> sanjay, the paramedic also testified that when he arrived at the scene, dr. murray made no mention of giving jackson propofol. the defense tried to ask the paramedic if he had done anything different if he had known that. we never heard the answer, how important was it for the paramedics to know what michael jackson had been given? i mean, would he have done anything different had he known propofol was involved?
8:45 pm
>> well, those are two separate questions. i don't know if he would have done anything differently, anderson. by all descriptions, the dilated pupils again, the body being cool to the touch. it sounded like michael jackson was already dead. i don't know that he would have done anything differently. the idea that you share information in a case like this, his medical history, it seems odd he talked about lorazepam being given, but he didn't mention this very unusual medication, unusual in that it was given outside the hospital. that's not something you forget, anderson. >> overall, what do you think of the job the prosecution has been doing? >> i think it's very good. i'm impressed by how quickly they're going. formally in cases like this, for whatever reason, prosecutors tend to dilly dally around, the prosecution is doing a workman like job. i think the defense is too. i've been very surprised by both
8:46 pm
sides, they get in, they get out, nobody's going into a four corners stall, it's been a -- i think, so far, a well tried case on both sides. >> from the defense, i mean, what is -- what do you think this is going to boil down to for them? >> it's clearly, from my standpoint at least are it's clearly going to come down to dr. white's testimony, and to a lesser degree, the prosecution's testimony as to whether or not the levels of propofol were what caused his death. remembering this whole case comes down to, you can say dr. murray acted strange, you can say he acted odd. you can say all of those things, unless the prosecution can convince this jury beyond a reasonable doubt that the medicine or the pharmaceuticals that dr. murray gave him caused the death, then it's a not guilty. that's where the prosecution is going to rise or fall. >> from a medical standpoint, how difficult is it going to be to prove to show what actually
8:47 pm
killed him? >> if you have a level of propofol in the body that's essentially consistent with being under general anesthesia, at least what some of the coroner reports have shown. you don't often measure propofol levels in the hospital, because it's gone from the body so quickly. they show circulating levels similar to anesthesia hours after it was administered, that means he had a lot of propofol in his body. you don't give that much without someone having a breathing tube in, without having monitoring equipment, resuscitation equipment. all the things we've been talking about. >> thank you, appreciate it. up next, the video of casey anthony that a florida judge did not want the jurors to see from the day her daughter's body was found. we're going to see it tonight. a 360 follow-up on the suicide of jamey rodemeyer, and even after his death, the school
8:48 pm
district taking action. details ahead. we lost well over half of our funding when everything took a big dip. i don't think anyone would open up a restaurant if they knew what that moment is like. ♪ day 1, everything happened at once. ♪ i don't know how long that day was. we went home and let it sink in what we had just done. [ laughs ] ♪ word of mouth is everything, and word of mouth today is online. it all goes back to the mom and pop business and building something from the heart, founded within a family. when i found out i was pregnant, daniel was working on our second location. everyone will find out soon enough i think that something's happening. ♪ ♪
8:49 pm
the healthcare law gives us powerful tools to fight it... to investigate it... ...prosecute it... and stop criminals. our senior medicare patrol volunteers... are teaching seniors across the country... ...to stop, spot, and report fraud. you can help. guard your medicare card. don't give out your card number over the phone. call to report any suspected fraud. we're cracking down on medicare fraud. let's make medicare stronger for all of us. the nascar nationwide series,
8:50 pm
i know pleasing fans is a top priority, 'cause without the fans, there'd be no nascar. just like if it weren't for customers, there'd be no nationwide. that's why they serve their customers' needs, not shareholder profits. because as a mutual, nationwide doesn't report to wall street, they report to their customers. and that's just one more reason why the earnhardt family has trusted nationwide for more than 30 years. nationwide is on your side.
8:51 pm
we're back, the ridiculist is coming up, it's nothing to sneeze about. for the first time, we're seeing video of casey anthony on the day her daughter's remains were found. the trial judge released it today. he said it was too inflammatory for jurors to see. here's the video, that's casey rocking and hunched over at a medical facility in the county jail. a white mississippi teenager accused of murdering an african-american man in a hate crime pleaded not guilty at his arraignment today. prosecutors say darryl dedman was part of a group of teens that attacked the man in june even running him over with a pickup truck. a follow-up on the suicide of jamey rodemeyer, a 14-year-old from the buffalo,
8:52 pm
new york area. his family says he took his own life because he was bullied at school. and he was taunted in death by bullies the night of his wake at a homecoming dance, kids chanting, we're glad you're dead. >> student safety is a top priority for me. you should know that we have also just taken action regarding an incident at the north high school dance. while our investigation continues, we have already identified a student that we believe is responsible for this incident and have imposed a suspension to the fullest extent allowed under education law. the pentagon has issued new laws allowing military chaplains to perform same sex marriages. this comes after the military dropped its don't ask don't tell policy on gay and lesbian service members. an emotional first pitch at tonight's american league division league series game
8:53 pm
between the rangers and bays. cooper stone, the 6-year-old son of the firefighter who fell and died while trying to catch a ball at a rangers game in july got a standing ovation for his throw to home plate. >> so sad. >> really sad. >> isha, a series of workplace bullying we have starting octoberth. we've teamed up with cartoon network and facebook to look at all angles. you can pledge to do everything you can to stop bullying, to find the app go to facebook.com/stopbullyingspeakup . join us for a series of special reports starting october 9th on cnn. coming up, the ridiculist coming up. excessive sneezing and excessive bless youing.
8:54 pm
gary... he hung up. ...why do we have so many a's in our name? so we're listed first in the phone book. ya know, gives us an edge. you know fedex can, give us an edge. how? well, fedex ships auto parts from factories around the world, they clear em through customs, and that'll help us fix cars faster. great idea. you know you got a bright future here at aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... [ male announcer ] supply chain solutions. fedex. solutions that matter. delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet they're closing thousands of offices, slashing service, and want to lay off over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem ? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains 5 billion a year from post-office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. congress created this problem, and congress can fix it.
8:55 pm
since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪
8:56 pm
8:57 pm
time now for the ridiculist. today we're adding anyone who decides to sneeze in this guy's classroom. he runs a pretty tight ship. he does not like disruptions in his classroom. to the point that he took points off students' grades because they said bless you when someone sneezed in class. before someone gets worked up about this, it has nothing to do with religion, it's about discipline. >> it doesn't have anything to do with religion. it's got to do with an interruption of class time. >> you may be wondering how much can a sneeze possibly interrupt class time. we're not talking about a little
8:58 pm
achoo followed by a simple bless you. one sneeze can lead to utter pandemoni pandemonium. ktxl sacramento gets to the bottom of it. >> reporter: a student sneezes in class, one student says bless you, followed by several students saying thank you. the original sneezer has to thank each student individually. >> this is simultaneously the most disruptive and polite class in america. it sounds like kids are playing a prank. the kids today they love the snuff. it isn't just the disruption, it's the relevance of the bless you to begin with. >> the bless you doesn't really make any sense any more. when you sneeze -- in the old days they thought you were dispelling evil spirits out of your body. today, really what you're doing doesn't make sense any more.
8:59 pm
>> he has a point. a sneeze isn't dispelling evil spirits, a sneeze is doing whatever a sneeze does. ask the teacher, i'm not the health teacher here. i agree it's passe. >> if you want to make a person feel better after they sneeze, you shouldn't say god bless you, you should say you're so good looking. >> i'm thinking why go after the students who say bless you. let's get to the real problem here, the sneezers themselves. let's get this kid some claritin stat. the teacher is not going to stop disciplining for disruptses. i'm all for disciplining for