let's say romney's the nominee, tea party doesn't like it? >> she could do that and if she did she would hurt the ticket. i expect this to be an extremely close election. and anything that basically takes away voters from us would be detrimental and anything that adds voters could be beneficial. i certainly would make every effort to have her on my team. >> thank you. that's all for us tonight. erin burnett is with us. "out front" starts now. sarah palin news, and christy turlington. >> that's right. we've got all of the ladies on the show tonight. sarah palin story. also on the front lines in pakistan, i'll gowin side a women's jail tonight. our guest, supermodel christy turlington shines a light on a disturbing statistic. newark magazine calls us out, seriously. and the bottom line on sarah palin. breaking news, she is not running for president. let's go "out front." >> breaking news, sarah palin

choosing not to run for the republican presidential nomination. she went on the mark levin radio show, made it clear she's not running and also released a letter to her supporters. she said, she can be more effective in a decisive role to help elect other true public servants to office. well, why now? scott conroy of role clear politics and co-author of "sarah from alaska"s has spoken to the palins since the decision. you've been rushing to get on the phone with us. so what can you tell us? >> erin, great to be here. i spoke to some members of palin's inner circle tonight and two points, one, they say that the family was a big issue, that they, you know, couldn't get the entire family on board for a presidential run and that was a big reason that made her say no in the end. another thing is that, you know, she really was seriously considering this. i'm told as of a few weeks ago she was having meetings in

arizona with some staff to talk it over. some of the political consultants that she brought in really, i think, brought home what a time commitment it would be, how much stress it would put on her and her family and in the end decided against it. there is something she considered for a long time. >> interesting, scott. you've been saying she did have some very formal family meetings overthe past few days. >> yeah. i -- not necessarily over the past few days. she did have meetings both with family, and with staff to really go through the logistics of how she would do this. i was told by one member of her inner circle that one point, and this is several weeks ago that they had a meeting and this person had come away convinced she was going to do this, she was going to run. they had a plan in place to make her, you know, the go-to tea party candidate, sort of cast aside rick perry, if that wa going to be his role.

but in the end, you know, frankly, she probably looked at polls and said she doesn't look at poll but was she looked at numbers here and realized this would have been a very, very steep climb for her. >> looking at those polls and in a race between her and president obama, he would have handily beat her. since you followed her for so long, what does she do? replane a commentator on fox news, what does she do? >> yeah. i'm one that thinks that she is in a tough spot right now. even for doing that which she of course will continue to do. you know, she has a lot of very, very staunch supporters that have put in a lot of time and energy into, you know, helping out with the campaign that is not going to exist, people that have lived in iowa for months, you know, organizing on her behalf and going to be really tough, i think, for her to explain her decision to those folks because in he were so

invested in this, so invested in her personally. a lot of these people think of her almost as a family member. it's something unique in politics. maintaining her base of support is going to be a difficult thing for her at this point and also, you know, of course with you know much of mainstream america and the media, people tend to write her off and the line now is like, well, she's strung us all along for this am of time. it's going to be hard -- i think she'll haven influence but she has to figure out a way to get back into this thing as far as even, you know, having an impact on the race, it's going to be tough. >> thanks so much. appreciate your taking the time. he's covered miss palin since the 2008 election and wrote "sarah from alaska." what will happen to all of the supporters? it's unusual in american politics, supporters loved her, viewed her as family, and now who they l. they vote for? kevin madden joins us, gloria

borger joins us, michael duhain. you've had a busy few days. we've got a lot going on here. kevin, palin out, christie out. what is -- what is going to happen here? where will her supporters, those loyal supporters, go? >> well, look, i think it's -- i'm not sure how the -- how great of an impact this will have on the field yet. one thing i would say now is that there's no more folks looking to see if anybody else is going to get in. we've got the field, now it's settled. as loyal and united as sarah palin's supporters were, n. their devotion to her, they are not a monolithic bloc and they're divided on who to support. folks would say she fits the profile but a number of candidates try to fit the tea party profile. some of the support which has been dwindling over the last few

months, if you look at the polls, it's somewhat minimal now. and if broken up among that field of tea party candidates whether it's herman cain, rick perry, or newt gingrich or rick santorum, whether or not it all goes in one bloc, that's unlikely. so i think it's -- probably a little bit more of a diluted effect on the field at large. >> gloria, i just looking at my blackberry, an e-mail, rick perry first candidate to put out a response. >> shocking. >> he says, quote, sarah palin's a good friend, great american, true patriot. i respect her decision it know she will continue to be a strong voice for conservative values and needed change in washington. he's the person you think would be the one to benefit, do you? >> he might. the end of that, it's unwritten, would be, p.s., please endorse me if you decide to endorse somebody in the long term, and i think that's by the way a big question out there. at some point, if this becomes a

very divisive primary, if there are two front-runners would sarah palin in the enjump and in take a risk and see if she could become a kingmaker? look, rick perry has been losing some altitude with tea party voters. but tea party voters have been fickle. they've moved from candidate to candidate to candidate, whether it's cain one day, bachmann the next week, or perry, and that's because they're kind of looking around for this perfect candidate. and in truth, now that this field is settled, they're not going to find the perfect just o zinds whether there's somebody in the field they can get behind and try to beat barack obama. >> is there something in common here? a lot of differences between chris christie and sarah palin on a lot of issue but was both citing families, and their gut. and i'm curious what chris christie went through. is this just a decision about because of social media and the

24-hour media cycle and the miserable focus on one's pers personal life people don't want to do it? >> with christie it's a commitment he's made to folks in new jersey. he's had great accomplishments in 20 months in terms of restructuring long-term debt, one of the most consequential governor. >> would he had made a different decision had he known sarah palin would get out the next day. >> his decision based solely on his commitment to new jersey. >> the romney/cain, what we're seeing now, does this in your view change? is perry going to rise up, or is this not just a settled field but a field ultimately mitt romney or herrman cain? >> we're at the beginning of the process. we haven't had one contest we haven't reached iowa, we haven't reached new hampshire yet. the thing i would counsel against anybody over in too much on an overanalysis on where the race stands public opinion is

not an event, it's a revolution. we're at beginning of the contests there's going to be a number of debates, arguments over the big policy issues and ultimately i think where you know someone like governor romney feels best positioned is that he's actually gone out and put together the best vision for the party and the reason that he can beat barack obama. ultimately herman cain, rick perry and others have to challenge governor romney on that and that's where you'll probably see the race go over the next few weeks. >> do not count rick perry out. i mean today we got the news that, for the last quarter, he's raises $17 million, was more money than mitt romney will have raised in that last quarter and when you have that kind of money, you're going to stay in for the long haul. >> mike, what about, though, when we look at the percent, they're saying don't count out rick perry. everyone says the field is settled. when you look at mitt romney depending on the poll, tied for the lead or the lead, 17% or 20% that is hardly definitive. can we be so sure someone else

doesn't come in. >> herman cain has risen from no where to be a major player shows how unsettled the feel is. it's governor romney's to lose. he's a steady candidate. there are things he needs to do to solidify that. this may be a moment in time he can do that. numbers indicate it's wide open. thanks so much to all three of you. appreciate you all taking the time. still to come, the banks. now, the bank dozen not like washington's new rules. we know that. we look flood numbers. all of the fees they're slapping on us, they're making us pay way too much. we did the math. we've got a banker. new york magazine makes us take a pregnant pause when it comes to being original. seriously. super model christy turlington joins us discuss problems in pakistan, all of this "out front." in america, we believe in a future

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the number tonight, 1,430,372. that's how many more twitter followers president obama has than shakira. both have quite a fup the president as over so million, shakira un-9. why do emake the comparison?

today, shakira appointed to president obama's advisory commission on educational excellence for hispanics. wall street protests are growing. new york, los angeles, seattle, san francisco, albuquerque, looking at shots of all of them now. something here reminiscent of the early days of the tea party. which actually shares some things in common with the wall street occupiers. they're both grassroots organization, from the ground up, both angry at washington. and while most participants are sincere, there is hate in both groups. most important, while on opposite sides of american politics, they agree on something huge. they both hate the bailout of the banks. and share animosity to the banks in general, which we think is a sign of a real issue because banks should be great for america. never mind what we do without atm and places to store our money. banks mean jobs. banks in america, and there are

more than 7,000 of them employ almost 1.8 million americans. more than america's largest private employer, walmart. banks employ so many people that one bank's lay-off can skew the jobs report for the entire nation. talking about bank of america. which laid off 30,000 employees in september, almost a third of the nation's total planned job cuts for the month. we should be rooting for the banks. the problem is they make it really hard when they lash out at washington's new rules by slapping fees on consumers. and i mean there is a tsunami of fees. citi bank hiking fees, set to $20 a month for accounts between $6,000 and $15,000. bank of america, sun trust, $5 debit card fees. jpmorgan chase, testing $3 debit card fees. i asked tim geithner about this last night. >> the banks are blaming the reforms in government for everything. >> right. >> including lots of problems they, themselves, were central to causing and people are angry

and frustrated with that. >> right. >> they want to see things changed. we're trying to make sure that we put in place the kind of protections consumers and investors deserves. there's nothing strange about the fact that banks are resi resisting it, pushing back, trying to weaken reforms and we'll push back hard. >> you're going to fight. >> we'll prevail. >> the banks say washington reforms have hurt them so much fees are the only way to make money. but that is not true. take bank of america. they are planning to put a $5 monthly fee on debit cards. and analysts who ran the numbers today for us tells us they will make 13% more money on that than they did before the regulations. and that's just debit fees. bank of america is also launching $9 monthly fees on some checking accounts. wow. russell goldsmith on the "out front" strike team, ceos and investors and entrepreneurs i picked to answer tough questions about the economy this season.

mr. goldsmith, good to have you with us. when you look at these numbers, it is really -- it's really upsetting because it just doesn't feel right. and i want to ask you the first question, are you doing what bank of america and some of these other big banks are doing, which is charging debit card fees or increasing atm fees? >> at citi national bank we're not changing our fees at all. we're not putting in debit card fee charges and raising minimums. we made virtually no changes in the consumer fees in last 12 months. >> what is going on with the big banks and particular that analysis from bank of america even with the fees they've said they're doing they're going to make 13% more than before the regulations and financial crisis and that's before the new fees they're about to try out? >> well, you know, a lot of the big of the banks are showing a lack of sensitivity right now to the economic environment that we're in and to the kind of issues that the american people

feel. look, the durbin amendment is not good law, it's price fixing based on no facts, no studies, it's not right. but they're responding to it in a way that at citi national and frankly a number of banks are not going to raise fees. we may disagree with the law but we understand the spirit of it and we're going to absorb the cost because it's the right thing to do for our clients. >> and explain to me why it is that some of the midsized banks, like yours, are not doing it when the big banks are. is this another case of they're just so big, they're too big? >> i don't think it's a question of they're too big. it's about their focus. citi national, a lot of midsizes banks, we're the local leader, we're the big local bank, we're connects to the community, we're focuses on meeting the needs of our community. one of the unfortunate things for the entire banking industry, and i applaud what you said about it at the beginning is the fact banks are vital engines of this economy. citi national, lots of banks are

lending money, people are involved, weirdo na'r we're dou we're volunteering. >> what can the banks do, in general? we're looking at the fees here specifically, which i have a real issue with because they're saying they make up what they're losing on the regulation and when you look at numbers, at lest in the case we gave specifically, it doesn't appear to be the case at all but on top of that you have a in general it feels like animosity and a tone-deaf nature when looking around the country at people frustrated and angry at the banks. what should your industry do right now? is this a time where you should have all of the big bank ceos stand up and talk to proest i p to say we're patriotic and want to bill the country, too. >> we're trying to explain at citi national we're not doing what some of the big guys are doing. unfortunately this inappropriate

law, this price fixing, got passed in the middle of the night, there are no facts, and nobody knows what the facts are, and the banks obviously can't sit down as a group and agree on pricing. that would be illegal. if this had been done in a more appropriate regulatory framework, maybe it would have worked out better but i think the best thing to do, like we're doing, is just leave your prices where they are, run your business, absorb this, at least while this economy's so tough and help america get through it, as we're all doing by making loans and providing investment advice and doing a bunch of things that are more importantly frankly than this but are being obscured by the issue. >> of course, the issue about loans is americans' perception of the lack of loans something we'll keep talking about. find out more about our strike team, cnn.com/outfront, let us know what you think of the bank fees and what those big bank ceos should do to be more pro-america right now. coming up, on passion on wall street, adding unions and

growing in numbers. we'll talk to the president of the united federation of teachers. disturbing audiotape played at michael jackson death trial. >> what new york magazine said about us today. i habe a cohd.

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thank you! we cover a lot of serious issues on this show. but here's one that's more seriously? this afternoon, new york magazine had fun at our expense

comparing this to seth mayers on weekend update. they compared us as unoriginal. this month, "new york" magazine and "ebony" magazine released covers featuring very pregnant and very nude women. on the left, actress nia long on ebony on the right a woman in her 50s on "new york" magazine's cover. this seems unoriginal to us because in case you haven't kept count, it has been over 20 years since demi moore posed for the photo you're both ripping off, 20 years, seriously not that shoiking or interesting to put a pregnant woim on the cover anymore. i know you're going to say it's a tribute, but dozens and dozens of magazines have done the same tribute over the year. don't believe us here are a few of the most memorable ones. with a couple you might not be expecting. claudia schiffer, cindy crawford, melanie cass, monica ballucci, britney spears, eva,

she-hulk, that was a good one. and leslie nielsen, yeah. okay, look i know how tough it can be to come up with new material specially when you're a monthly or weekly magazine. surery you can do better than that, seriously. >> this has been really? with seth and amy. >> i guess we all borrow the good ideas, seriously. and guess what, "new york" magazine? we were out front of you on the snl story. collect out our blog of the very segment from our rehearsal show september 26th, a week before we launched and nine days before your admittedly very fun noi shot at us, seriously. still out front, we talked to jon huntsman, and the disturbing audio played for the jurors at trial of michael jackson's doctor. and supermodel filmmaker christy and supermodel filmmaker christy turlington.

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we star the second half of our show with stories we care about where we focus on our own reports. we made the calls. first up, sarah palin out. tea party favorite, announcing she's not going to run for president. scott conroy, who covered palin during the 2008 season told us this -- >> she really was seriously considering this.

i'm told that, as of a few weeks ago she was having meetings in arizona with some of her staff and talking it over. some of the political consultants that she brought in really i think brought home what a time commitment it would be, how much stress it would put on her and her family and so in the end she decided against it. >> so what's next? palin say she's will help other candidates get elected. number two, protests on wall street growing larger today. labor unions, including nurses and transit worker joined protesters across the financial district. the president of the united federation of teachers came out front and said, quote, this issue fairness for all americans is what everyone should be talking about, and i couldn't be more proud of the work the protesters have done to make this conversation possible. protests show no sign of letting up. number three, tax the millionaires. that's senate leader harry reid's plan to pay for the president's job bill. the democrat unveiled 5% tax on anyone making more than $1 million. he says it will raise nearly

$450 billion, which is exactly enough to pay for the president's jobs bill. but with republicans and some democrats vowing to block any tax increase, reid may have a problem getting votes. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell tells us, quote, we done think raising taxes in the middle of a recession is a good idea, and the president himself declined several offers to endorse the idea. number four, madoff victims getting checks. 1200 investors will be getting some money back. $312 million in checks being mailed in the first round of restitution payments. now this means the average payment will be roughly $253,000. we spoke to an investor who was ripped off and here's what she said. too little too late, what good is 4.5 cents on the dollar? it has been 61 days since the u.s. lost its top credit rating. what are we doing to get it back?

former utah governor and ambassador to china, jon huntsman, has been working the crowds. but he hasn't gotten much traction. the latest poll from cbs news has governor huntsman with 2% support among likely primary voters though he's done better in new hampshire, as you can see. but why? the governor has gotten some big-time support from big-time names, like john mack, from morgan stanley, phil knight, chairman of nike, former homeland security chief, governor tom ridge, and jeb bush jr., son of the former florida governor. add to that the "wall street journal" has high praise for the economic plan. talked to governor jon huntsman joins us from, he comes to us knoxville, tennessee opinion. thanks for being here. really appreciate it. why aren't you doing better? you got the endorsements. what's happening? >> we've got the endorsements. we've got a plan. we have a message. the only numbers, erin, at this point that really matter are those in new hampshire, because that's where you have our nation's first primary, that's

where people have seen it all and heard it all. and in order to get up in the polls there you've got to have a message that is compelling, that is believable, that is authentic, and one more where the people of new hampshire can hear it and believe it's the right vision for the united states. we've done 75 events now in new hampshire. and we're going to be doing a whole lot more. and as we've seen in elections past how one does new hampshire and we're going to win new hampshire, that always then predicts the future outcome of the race. and i like our chances in new hampshire. keep your eyes focuses there. >> look at the polls here, mitt romney at 41% new hampshire. you're running at ten. with all of your effort, and i wanted to ask you about a tweet that you wrote, and see if this is part of the reason why you're facing an uphill climb, you tweeted, quote, to be clear, i believe in evolution, and trust scientists on global warming. call me crazy. do you think the republican party has gone too far to the right in the primaries where

someone with your views can't get traction? >> my point is that, in order to win the election, we actually have to win over some of the people who voted for barack obama last time. and that means if you want to win if you want to be a successful party, we've got to win over republicans who have become unaffiliated voters. we've got win over the so-called conservative democrats that reagan used to have when he was president. you can't run from science. you can't run from mainstream conservatism and expect to win the election. >> do you wish you ran as an independent? >> no. i've always been a republican. i've been involved in the trenches. i've worked for or on the campaigns of every republican since i was old enough to vote. i believe that we're going to to return to the big tent republican party. >> before you go, i wanted to ask you one question, though, that i've been curious. there are a lot of ads running, explaining the mormon religion to americans and it seems to be no coincidence that they are

running because you and mitt romney are running for president, and it's an opportunity for people who are mormon and religious to spread their religion around the country. we'll show one of them, sally marx talking about what she does for a loving, why it's perfect for the lord to use her. do you think that that's okay? are you frustrated that your campaign can being use ford religious purposes? >> well, i don't much care one way or the other. some people wear religion on their sleeve, i wear it in my heart. for me it's a very, very personal thing. >> governor huntsman, thanks so much. >> congratulations on your new show. >> all right. let's collect in with anderson cooper with a look ahead on "ac 360." >> after months of thrusting herself in the spotlight, refusing to say if she would or wouldn't run, today she made it official, she's not running. our political panel will join us with how pallen's announcement

could be a game changer for some candidates in the race. amanda knox starting over. tearful scene is the beginning of rebuilding of a life shattered by nearly four years in an italian jail. we'll speak to dr. drew pinsky about the challenges at the top of the hour. ahead, out front, the latest details from the michael jackson death trial. and why we can't resist russian prime minister putin. "out front" next. does that in one daily dose.lt citracal slow release... continuously releases calcium plus d for the efficient absorption my body needs. citracal.

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hurting michael jackson, that's what the jury heard today in the case against his physician. we are able to report unfortunately that apple is confirming that steve jobs has passed away. after a battle with pancreatic cancer. this news just confirmed. you all may remember on august 24th of this year, steve jobs stepped aside, due to his illness. tim cook was running apple. steve jobs, 56 years old. again, dying of pancreatic cancer. this is a man who really stood for american exceptionalism, was a man who created the mac, the ipod, the iphone, the ipad, all of that. you see him there in the past few years he had been battling pancreatic cancer. you can see that on his frame. something investors had been talking about and with his final stepping aside which he had done once before with tim cook taking

the helm at apple something that got a lot of attention on wall street. he was a man, you see him there the reason apple was exceptional, the products were exceptional and so loved he'd show up in the black turtleneck and make the presentation and it became an event with groupies and people around the world waiting for every event. yesterday we had the 4s iphone announced by tim cook with steve jobs obviously not there. i'm lucky enough to have dr. sanjay gupta here. we were going to be talking about michael jackson. but weigh in, if you could here, obviously this was a battle where he had succumbed and come back to work and now obviously fine -- >> 2003 we first heard for sure he was sick and at that point unclear, was it pancreatic cancer, something else? you remember for a year or so, erin, he did not undergo traditional therapy. he chose to treat this with herbal remedies and in 2004 started getting therapy in earnest, getting a liver

transplant a few years later that made a lot of news that the point. there was so much unknown about his health at that point. he got his liver transplant with no fanfare, hardly any press coverage. people found about it after the fact. like you said, he appeared to be recovering. he got really thin, remember, he said he dismissed -- >> gaunt. >> he said this is a hormone imbalance, he never said this was pancreatic cancer specifically. you know, even with this announcement you mentioned, even they there was a lot of speculation, has the cancer returned, is there something else going on, does he just sympathy think he can't run the company anymore? the suspicion was there for some time that the cancer had come back. the pancreatic cancer, as you may know, is one of these difficult cancers to treat. >> people thought it was an amazing story that he had been able to fight it off for so long. >> that's right. and the liver transplant, for example, unconventional, not common therapy, for pancreatic chance, doesn't work in

everybody. but in this case because he returns they thought he got a significant benefit from that and maybe he did for a period of time but i tell you, you know, the medical community we've been following this along for some time and since it was more confirmed that he had the pancreatic cancer, we just don't have great treatments for that at this point. you know, five year survival is limited and talking his case, at years at least, 2003 the diagnose is confirmed. >> let me give everyone more background here, because he was such a magnificent person that stood for so much of this country. for those of who you don't know he was adopted, close with his family. original parents, sanjay and i were talking about, syrian -- >> half syrian. >> very interesting background. >> went back and found his adoptive parents and got to know them and sis sister i think an artist, biological sister. talented family. >> amazing. he went to reed college in portland, oregon dropped out

after one semester and will surprise no one watching, given what he was able to do. age 12 he asked william hewlett found or of hewlett-packard for parts to cleatomplete a school project. >> who would have known we got from there to the ipad so many years later. remarkable. so many of these entrepreneurs just sort of going off and doing these incredible things. >> apple.com, the website, i'm going to that now, but is confirming that mr. jobs has passed away. i'm pulling that up now here, sanjay. but you can see it there, that is now -- you can see it here, sanjay -- na is the exact page you get when it comes back, obviously a picture from several years ago of mr. jobs. it is something that when he stepped aside on august 24th, that we were all talking about because he has created -- i mean, sanjay, you travel all the time, i travel all the time, you know, china, you say to kids

what do you think of america and they start yelling iphone. it has become a real symbol for america, in a positive way. >> there are so few novel products. look at the products that come out that have something truly novel, truly something you haven't seen before is unusual it seems nowadays. every time there was an announcement by apple, i knew what i wanted for a potential gift, so it's remarkable. i saw that around the world as well. people loved having these products. >> we -- yesterday we went to the apple store for the 4s and we had fun with it. they were going to come out with the 5 and they come out with the 4s, you ask all of these people, what's the 4s? they don't care what the 4s is. they don't care if it's better than 4. they just want to have it and that there are so few products in the world people feel that way aabout. >> and they're not cheap. >> no. >> spending a lot of money on the product but was they buy them in earnest for sure.

>> what -- how unusual was his battle? again i go back to the fact that you know, in a sense people sort of as a cry wolf people started to think he would be able to get through this. >> right. >> because he stepped aside before and come back to run apple again. >> there are people, you know if you look at any sort of disease like this, you look at numbers, there are people who are going to fall within the standard curve but there's always outliers on both sides people who don't survive very long and people who survive a very long time. people thought he was one of the outliers or had a variant of pancreatic cancer. we don't know what exactly was causing it. if it was one of the variants it wouldn't abide by the typical laws or data. again, pancreatic cancer and the glioblastoma, tumor of the brain, two of the worst tumors in terms of prognosis. if you get it we don't have great therapies, let's alone a cure, and the numbers are

abysmal at this point. >> let's bring in leannder he wrote "cult of mac." very sad news. what's your first reaction, though, to the legacy of the man that really stood for american exceptionalism? >> well, he has incredible legacy. he's had an amazing career. i'd say he's right up there with some of the greatest innovators in history, edison, with ford. he completely set the agenda for the tech industry for 30 years. you know, from the first pc for regular consumers to the mac which set the agenda for the desktop era and then tore it down with the i phone and the ipad. >> what about some of the challenges that he went through, because there were times when you know the mac was cool but

then all of a sudden obviously apple within through a period where the company struggled and all of a sudden he came back and made it into the defining company that it is right now. >> yeah, what's strange about his career is that he was dismissed as a failure for most of it. it was only in the last few years that he really got credit, you know, for his successes. most 0 o. of his career, especially away from apple, for the first time, that the next years, you know, people said he was a slick marketer and he was just a salesman and a fast talker but didn't have technology chops. during that time he was laying the foundation for his latest success and people give him the credit for co-founding apple. but looking back on it hind sight is only 20/20 but he's had an incredible career and an

incredible vision which goes back to the beginning when he was a 19-year-old in the garage and apple. to make ease of the use technology for consumers he's he's been doing that for the last 30 years. >> i want to let everyone know what you're looking at the last video that we have of steve jobs when he was we have of steve jos when he was presenting the latest i-phone. there you have that video. obviously, he was very ill. you mentioned something that it seems worth bringing out more. he did things his way. he was unafraid of saying, i'm going to design my software this way, it's not going to work with other software, and he ended up being right. >> -- the big hallmark of his career, was he had that great instinct and he didn't listen to critics. especially in the tech industry which is full of, you know,

engineers who think what they have to do is load on more features. for him, a great product was one that really cut back on feature, very simple, easy to use. steve jobs took criticism for years for that. that was sort of the big part of the magic. >> i want to bring martin lindstrom, author of "brainwashed," into the conversation. first, the statement we just received from apple. apple says, quote, apple has lost a visionary and creative genius and the world has lost an amazing human being. those of us who have been fortunate enough to know and work with steve have lost a dear friend and inspiring mentor. steve leaves behind a company that only he could have and his spirit will be forever the foundation of apple. martin, what's your -- what's your reaction here to the legacy of steve jobs? >> well, first of all, of

course, incredibly sad about the news. but i think if you take a look at it from a business point of view, i actually think for a while we're going to see something unusual happen with the brand. that is we're going to see people will start to support the brand even more. we most likely will see that sales will go up dramatically. the reason why i'm saying that is because we've seen that in so many other cases where founders, musician, very popular public figures, has passed away, that the sales is going up. so for a short period of time, we will see that people will almost support him indirectly by buying more of the apple equipment. and then over time what will happen is the big question mark. because you do represent a religion. and we do know today when the religious leader's going, there needs to be something else driving that vision for the company, so that's going to be very interesting, what will happen. >> it's interesting, we've talked about that, you know, over the years that there is,

it's an amazing product, but there was a cut in the best of ways, there was a religion around him and his vision. sanjay gupta's just pulling up something that is so worth mentioning. apple is the second most valuable company in america. >> and it had more cash reserves than the u.s. treasury and surpassed exxon mobil as the world's most valuable company. this year. the products you mentioned, surprised you're seeing them all over, 275 million ipods, 100 million iphones sold worldwide. >> martin, when you think about it -- and i know it's hard to do this off the cuff, but there may be no one who has had more of an influence in such a short period of time in changing how we all live our lives and the tools that we deem essential for daily life. >> you're absolutely right. what i find fascinating is that some of the work i've done over

the years, in order to understand, apple's influence on us as consumers, has shown incredible strong power between religion and power. in fact, we were testing the brand with another very powerful brand and time after time, the power between strong religion believers, for example, believing in the faith of christianity, had almost the same brain reaction as people which really were hard core fans of apple. so what we can do is look at what is going to happen when steve jobs now is gone. i think one of the things we will see happen, that movement, which really is the reason why apple is so big, that movement will probably be stronger, because they feel it's their legacy to really continue the spirit of the brand. so i think we will see something very unusual happen, probably some people never seen in the history of brands before. >> interested, in just the past few minutes, 457 related

articles to this story, just to show what's happening. when i'm just looking here at the time line of steve jobs, some -- two years ago -- three years ago, a new service accidentally published an obituary for steve jobs in 2008. >> i remember that, yeah. >> he really fought. >> he did. remember, after that, is when he had this liver transplant. really, nobody knew about this. we certainly keep on top of what's happening with him at any given time. he had this liver transplant. we found out about it after the fact. ended up taking place in memphis. as you mentioned, he did sort of recover and was leading the company. maybe you knew about this but there's an authorized biography coming out of steve jobs. actually walter isaac son's writing it, who used to work here at cnn. >> right. >> steve jobs cooperated fully with this biography. the reason i think it's relevant is because a lot of people said he wouldn't do that unless he was becoming mindful of his legacy, mindful of the fact he

was quite sick and his days were numbered. that's coming out in november. certainly something on his mind. i think he'd been thinking about this for some time. >> and when you talk about walter's book, that was originally scheduled not to come out till next spring. >> right, exactly. they advanced it. in part, you can sort of put the pieces of the puzzle together now. certainly in august, when he did officially step down and say that day has come. you remember that. it was so poignant. i told people if it ever came to the point where i could no longer run this company, i would step aside, that day has come. i think since then you saw a lot of things fast forward, including the publication of this book. >> fair point. dan simon, our correspondent from san francisco, joins us live. dan, obviously, you covered apple announcements. the musconi center, the carnival and warship, every time there was a presentation by mr. jobs.

>> well, obviously, we're talking about somebody -- he'll never be replaced. you think about where he came from. he was adopted. grew up -- his parents were working class parents. he was a college dropout. went to reed college just for a semester, then dropped out to pursue his passion for electronics. he started apple with his longtime friend steve wozniak out of his garage. think about what he accomplished. it's one thing to really create a technology that has an impact on so many people's lives. it's another thing to do it time and again. basically, invented the personal computer. with the apple 2. then all those years later, redefined the music industry with the ipod. and then totally changed the cellular phone industry with the i-phone. and then most recently with the ipad. not just hitting it out of the ballpark once but doing it time and time again. he leaves a legacy that will

probably never be matched. >> and, dan, in terms of what happens next, and i know everyone asks this question. tim cook obviously has run this company very well. steve jobs was a big proponent of his. does this affect the creativity, beauty, the function, of what comes out of apple? >> well, apple is now a very well-oiled machine with tim cook. i think what you may miss in the future is is the visionary. jobs had the rare ability to understand what consumers wanted before consumers realized. he could say, i think this is what people will respond to. the question is whether somebody can fill those shoes and really be able to gauge public interest before the products reach the marketplace. he's got a culture there that seems to have gravitated towards it. i think we'll have a better sense in a couple of years. they have a lot of products in

the pipeline that they've been working on for some time. what's going to be the next iphone? s who who's going to be able to discover that? that's something we don't know. >> martin, dan raising a great point, which is, you know, everyone sort of made fun of the ipad and a lot of people said, you know, who's going to want basically a laptop that's smaller than a laptop that's touch. can you imagine, we used to say that, right. but he did anticipate what people wanted before they wanted it. >> he followed his instinct. he was the only one i'm aware of a business leader which never did any tests. he was never doing any focus groups. he just followed intuition. i think that's really what makes him stand apart. everyone else is so afraid of making a risk, taking a risk. he just followed his